I still think we should get the Iron/Cows city going before attacking. London doesn't have that many good tiles to work, so whipping a settler is no biggie.

And we shouldn't attack those skirmisher with STR4 chariots if we want to win the battle!

As to the long-term, there might be a chance of a 'Ragnar-gate' city off the coast of London, so we need a coastal city to get a WB looking around

London does need some improvement. But mines (for units) or cottages (for tech)? We could whip a settler, but with all the AIs--actually, maybe not Mansa--having strategic resources, we're going to be deluged soon.

Casualties are likely to be high with the chariots, but it's probably better to use them first to soften up the skirmishers rather than using the more expensive melee units.

As to Ragnar-gate, that's an overall strategy question. If there is a coastal/cultural route to the other AIs, I think we've lost. I don't see how we can compete with other teams which (presumably) didn't lose 500H+ of units so early with little to show for it.

I do agree that a scouting workboat or galley (or trireme?) is a good idea. Knowledge is power. But my feeling is that it could wait a bit.

I don't think that necessarily puts us out of the running (though it might), but I think it does mean that we have to make some other gambles to be competitive.

In this case, the only thing I can think of is that other teams will own this continent before us (seems pretty likely), but that then they will have to wait for Astronomy to proceed. We might be able to time the continent conquest and Astronomy discovery more closely. A possible advantage to us is that our units would then be more advanced (maces/xbows instead of swords/axes) and we might have more of them (having faced bigger stacks). They might also be able to hop onto galleons quickly and keep fighting, whereas the others will either have to be supported and upgraded, or disbanded and regenerated.

We'll probably get more cash from captured cities, and they might have enough cottages to support the additional cost if we keep them. But I doubt this will offset the increased military cost to us to acquire them.

We might want to consider a specialist economy, but I'm not very experienced with those, and am not sure if they will help us here or not. (Maybe if Alex builds us the Pyramids!)

Also, because we have no built or captured wonders, we might be able to fine tune some great person production to get a couple of Scientists to help us bulb Optics and Astronomy. (Not sure. Haven't looked to check the GP tech route.)

Are there other ways we can compete with a team (or teams) which optimize the early conquering of the continent? Maybe there's some way to conquer our island last? (Though I seriously can't think of how that would be advantageous. Maybe weaken the AIs and milk them for promotions, but then wouldn't WW be unbearable?)

Got it.. but it seems as if my turnset is still rather nebulous. I'll take a look tomorrow and make some comments and hopefully we can have a clear look ahead before I play.

Kodii, here are a few comments from me about your turnset (and a little beyond).

1) Survive. We have incoming Mali skirmishers (2) in the north and incoming Greek archers (4) in the south. No sign of anything from Hannibal yet, but he's had horses for quite a while. (In an earlier post, I think I had some micromanaging advice that you can consider, but use your best judgment in-game.)

2) More units. No matter what we do, I think we need more units before anything else. Either for defense of for pillaging parties depending on RNG luck.

3) Tech to construction. Unless anyone has a better idea, I think we'll be wanting cats asap.

Items for discussion:
a) Where or whether an iron-grabbing city. With Stonehenge on our continent and in a non-hill city, I'm tempted to plant the city 2N of the copper. That's coastal, has fish, and has lots of mines after some jungles are chopped.

b) Next use of troops: I think a set of pillaging parties (at least to Carthage and Alex) would be first. Then, I'd send some axes and cats to take Alex's elephant city and Spartahenge.

c) Post-construction tech: Not sure. Do we want to play any Great Scientist tech pop games toward Optics or Astronomy?

I agree with Compromise. I also think the question of Great Scientists could be answered after we get a scouting ship out to run around the coast for us.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what to do..... so hopefully I can sneak my turns in today.

T1 535BC - Mansa's Skirmishers are successfully defeated with 0 casualties; I take revenge and capture a Greek worker

T2 520BC - Alex, being the King of RNG, kills one of our chariots with barely a scratch.

T3 505BC - We continue to dance with Alex, who is determined to get into London somehow, but we keep blockading him out

T4 490BC - Alex, being the genius that he is, attacks with his injured archer, loses, then retreats; We get a GG in London; our chariot kills a barb archer

I pause here because I feel as if I shouldn't let our GG sit until the end of my turnset. Lets decide what to do with him now. I don't recall reading any discussion on it in the past.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG006_BC0490_01.CivWarlordsSave

Here is your Session Turn Log from 550 BC to 490 BC:


Turn 131, 535 BC: The enemy has been spotted near London!
Turn 131, 535 BC: Your Spearman has destroyed a Worker!
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Mansa Musa's Skirmisher (4.00)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Combat Odds: 72.5%
Turn 131, 535 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Mansa Musa's Skirmisher!
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Chariot (4.40) vs Mansa Musa's Skirmisher (2.97)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Combat Odds: 91.7%
Turn 131, 535 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 131, 535 BC: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 21 (41/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 21 (20/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Mansa Musa's Skirmisher is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Chariot has defeated Mansa Musa's Skirmisher!
Turn 131, 535 BC: Alexander's Archer (3.60) vs Churchill's Chariot (4.00)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Combat Odds: 37.3%
Turn 131, 535 BC: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 131, 535 BC: Alexander's Archer has defeated Churchill's Chariot!

Turn 132, 520 BC: The enemy has been spotted near London!
Turn 132, 520 BC: York will grow to size 4 on the next turn

Turn 133, 505 BC: The enemy has been spotted near London!
Turn 133, 505 BC: The enemy has been spotted near York!
Turn 133, 505 BC: You have discovered Masonry!
Turn 133, 505 BC: York has grown to size 4
Turn 133, 505 BC: Alexander's Archer (3.47) vs Churchill's Chariot (4.00)
Turn 133, 505 BC: Combat Odds: 35.0%
Turn 133, 505 BC: (Extra Combat: -30%)
Turn 133, 505 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (69/100HP)
Turn 133, 505 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (49/100HP)
Turn 133, 505 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (29/100HP)
Turn 133, 505 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 133, 505 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 133, 505 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (9/100HP)
Turn 133, 505 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 133, 505 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 133, 505 BC: Churchill's Chariot has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 133, 505 BC: Timur (Great General) has been born in London (Churchill)!
Turn 133, 505 BC: While defending, your Chariot has killed a Greek Archer!

Turn 134, 490 BC: The enemy has been spotted near London!
Turn 134, 490 BC: The enemy has been spotted near York!
Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot (3.78) vs Barbarian's Archer (2.85)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Combat Odds: 73.3%
Turn 134, 490 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 134, 490 BC: (Barbarian Combat: -5%)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 16 (70/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 16 (54/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 16 (38/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 16 (22/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 134, 490 BC: Your Chariot has destroyed a Archer!

I'd settle him in London as an Instructor: we'll be attacking with same-era units as the AIs for a while and we want a combat edge more than we need to keep the attack stack rolling (so I'd make the second GG a medic3 chariot).

I pause here because I feel as if I shouldn't let our GG sit until the end of my turn set. Let's decide what to do with him now. I don't recall reading any discussion on it in the past.

The big question is if we more concerned about healing, or stronger troops. Stronger troops mean merging the general into the cattle / horse site as that one is pure military and will stay that we.

My preference to merge the GG into cow / horses.

Voting time? :lol:

1) Merge into London - Swiss
2) Merge into York - Lee, Kodii
3) Medic 3 Chariot

I voted for York purely because we have designated the city as military only. The instructor in London might not provide us with as much York's would.

I voted for York purely because we have designated the city as military only. The instructor in London might not provide us with as much York's would.
This is the same basis why I voted for York. If the city has limited economy, then who cares about markets, libraries, etc. Outside of maybe Heroic Epic and a court I see nothing but troops. London has income, and needs plenty of buildings as our empire increases in size.

the other option is a military academy ... no, wait, that was fixed. Are we anywhere near National Epic? Because a Medic 3 chariot would qualify as the required unit.

Anyway, I vote for merge into York.

Are we anywhere near National Epic? Because a Medic 3 chariot would qualify as the required unit.

I suspect you mean Heroic Epic. With this being AW I am not worried about getting that built...

I'd vote London because I think in the early term, it will provide more troops for us. Purely a base-hammer count.

(And good turns so far, Kodii.)

I vote for the medic III chariot, just to mix things up :)

Hammer-wise, perhaps it is more effective to settle in London now, then in York later. We'll have another GG by the time London converts from units to infrastructure.

T4 490BC - GG settled in London

T5 475BC - If its any consolation to sunrise, we now have a Medic 2 chariot

T10 400BC - I kill a barb warrior; Alex is still dancing around with his archers. At one point he DID break his stack, and I should have attacked, so forgive me for that mistake.

I have marked some signs on the units I have sent to converge to form a pillaging party. The first party should go to Alex. The second can go to Hannibal.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG006_BC0400_01.CivWarlordsSave

Here is your Session Turn Log from 490 BC to 400 BC:

Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot (3.78) vs Barbarian's Archer (2.85)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Combat Odds: 73.3%
Turn 134, 490 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 134, 490 BC: (Barbarian Combat: -5%)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 16 (70/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 16 (54/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 16 (38/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 16 (22/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 134, 490 BC: Churchill's Chariot has defeated Barbarian's Archer!
Turn 134, 490 BC: Logging Game to File: autolog.txt

Turn 137, 445 BC: The enemy has been spotted near London!
Turn 137, 445 BC: London has grown to size 7

Turn 138, 430 BC: The enemy has been spotted near London!

Turn 139, 415 BC: The enemy has been spotted near London!
Turn 139, 415 BC: The enemy has been spotted near York!

Turn 140, 400 BC: The enemy has been spotted near London!
Turn 140, 400 BC: The enemy has been spotted near York!
Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Barbarian's Warrior (1.29)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 140, 400 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 140, 400 BC: (Barbarian Combat: -5%)
Turn 140, 400 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 10 (90/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 10 (80/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (63/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (26/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (0/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!
Turn 140, 400 BC: Your Axeman has destroyed a Warrior!

Okay, I think we're safe...for now. Good work, Kodii.

I think York should work the cows, horses, the forest, the plains hill mine. (Cows currently unworked.)

I would only attack Alex's archers on flat land and not across a river. I'm not sure what the best way to lure him into that is.

I think Hannibal has founded our Iron city for us: NE of Sparta!

We could discuss how to proceed: one pillage party or two. I do think we want the elephant city as soon as we get construction in ~20T.

Turnsets:
Sunrise89, I have you as up and me (Compromise) on deck. Ruff, I've still got you as a lurker. Let us know if any of that should be corrected.

Feedback requests:
A couple issues I'd like to get team feedback on:
1)Where to get Iron?,
2) Where/whether to pillage?,
3) If/When/How get elephants?
4) Worker priorities?

My initial thoughts:
1) [Iron] From Hannibal, after we destroy Greece.
2) [Pillaging] First pillage Alex (copper and horses), then Hannibal.
3) [Elephants] Part of the Destroy Greece plan. Sweep through elephants, Sparta, Athens. Keep all those; destroy all else. Then Hannibal: Keep Iron and Carthage. Finally Mansa: Keep cities which can support themselves.
4) [Workers] Road to Elephants. Road and improve behind the front.

A couple issues I'd like to get team feedback on:
1)Where to get Iron?, Now. Cows/Iron.
2) Where/whether to pillage?, Greece
3) If/When/How get elephants? Take Greek Eleville
4) Worker priorities? Irontown

Okay, we've got Compromise proposing to rely heavily on cats and elephants and Swiss recommending that we get a good Iron production city up and running asap. Anyone have different thoughts or have a preference between these two?

Also sunrise let us know if you want to play, swap or skip this round. Other than the discussion in the last couple posts, is there anything else anyone wants to add before we run the next few turns?

I have got it, and plan to play later tonight.

I'll throw in my votes behind the Compromise plan. I think hitting Alex with cats ASAP is the best course of action.

To be fair, I think Swiss advocates cats asap too. It's just that he feels an Iron city via settler is a good investment of our food and hammers, whereas I think that axes will be fine, especially backed up by elephants.

I really don't know whether or not its worth it to settle the iron now... but considering we are still some turns to Construction, I would propose one of the two plans while we wait for Godot.

1) Send out a settler for iron
2) Build up another pillaging party for Hannibal

I'm leaning towards the second option, because I don't see a real need for iron yet... I can be persuaded though.

1)Where to get Iron?, Now.
2) Where/whether to pillage?, Also Greece, they should be our first target still.
3) If/When/How get elephants? Greece..
4) Worker priorities? Getting one more worker and then supporting a 3rd city.

My 2 cents. I am happy that we soldier on, but I doubt we make a highscore.:D

Feedback requests:
A couple issues I'd like to get team feedback on:
1) Where to get Iron?
2) Where/whether to pillage?
3) If/When/How get elephants?
4) Worker priorities?
1) From the closest possible source. If construction is close (< 20 turns), then after we get the elephant city.
2) Pillage starts ASAP, and I would hit Mansa first to for the cottage income. We need to speed up science, and pillaging is a great way to do so.
3) I want them ASAP. We should take the Greek elephant city ASAP.
4) I don't know how London set for development. If it needs cottages, finish those. After that we need roads toward elephantville.

My 2 cents. I am happy that we soldier on, but I doubt we make a highscore.:D

I agree we are out of competition. :cry:

I really wish I listened to my gut feeling that the stack was light, and argued with the team to delay long enough for a couple more units.

I agree that we probably are out of the competition. I just can't see how wading through more-advanced AI lands will help us.

But that doesn't mean we can't still have fun! For starters, I recommend naming the units of our first pillage group as "Spoon Advance Alpha". :)

Can we rename cities? If we can, the capital could become Spoonstart. The horses could become Equispoon. Soon, we will have Pachyspoon. Iron city is Rustyspoon.

Anyone know any good spoon jokes?

Onward brave spoons!

Sorry guys, but I need at least a swap. I didn't realize I didn't have Warlords installed on this machine, and upon installing it I'm getting a runtime error trying to load the program itself. I don't know what I'll have to reinstall, but I won't be getting to it tonight. Sorry.

No problem, sunrise. I think there might be some BtS assets that might have to be set correctly for the Warlords to work right.

That makes me up. I should be able to get some turns run tomorrow. Friday at the latest.

Given the range of suggestions for how to proceed, the only thing I'm sure of is that I will please no one!

It will be tomorrow before I'm able to get this one run.

I'm starting to warm to the idea of the iron/cows city. It may work well with a pillaging campaign. If we can deny copper to the AIs, then our swords will face (at best) archers and possibly horses. Is that your thinking, Swiss?

Also, does anyone mind if I run the turns until we get Construction? We've been on hiatus for a while, and if I run a 20T turnset or so, that might move us along a bit.

I've still got the save. My Civ time yesterday was rudely interrupted. I'll be playing tonight though.

Exciting times:

I started off by concentrating mostly on Axe production. We've got several spears and chariots.

First order of business was to lure Alex's 3-archer stack onto flatlands:

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9191/civ4screenshot0007rh7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Note that I've got 6 or so units able to attack him without crossing a river. We had 99% odds on our Cover Axe, and 2 spears also won at 73% odds. Threat eliminated.

I started sending Pillage units towards Athens, when I noticed some interesting Greek culture:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3037/civ4screenshot0022up7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hey! Alex settled Iron for us! And with wheat and a floodplains in the BFC with the iron!

At this point, I decided to go all out for conquering some Greek cities. Roads were built to the Ivory city. Axes, spears and chariots amassed within our borders.

Meanwhile:

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8816/civ4screenshot0034xl2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Our Sentry chariot decided to earn us a little money toward Construction. The barbs helped run interference. At one point, it was simply beautiful: two barb archers descending on Timbuktu from the N and NW while I pillaged cottages SE, E and NE. Timbuktu is now cottage-free!

Also, the chariot revealed no metal for Mansa. Maybe something up north in the desert, but I think we're safe to leave him for last on this continent.

Meanwhile, back on the Greek front, a force has been assembled:

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/8316/moveoncorinthtf9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Corinth fell with a single axe lost. By the time we have Construction, we should also have a roaded elephant camp!

The 250BC mark reveals our standing in the world:

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/7556/civ4screenshot0064kh7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I'd rather see the tech rankings, but Bede is the venerable one.

In 190BC, the Great Lighthouse is biafl.

As I'm getting into position to get an iron city, a barb archer is one step ahead of me. Sadly, the barb archer only knocks down Alex's lone CG1 archer to 2.6/3.0. The effect is that we have to fight a CG2 Axe for control of iron in Thebes.

Wait...Thebes? Isn't that an Egyptian city name? Was this a barb city first? I don't know. But at the loss of another axe, it's ours now. And Alex had even improved the Iron for us. When I killed the Greek archer sitting on top of it though, our chariot found:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4719/civ4screenshot0088iy2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Well, I certainly didn't expect to see that! Fortunately, the chariot had another movement point left. In Thebes now are an axe, a spear and a chariot. Only the spear is unwounded. Another axe is 1 tile away.

Even though we're only 3T away from Construction, I decided to stop here. We'll have some planning to do.

I failed to do much strategic pillaging--only got cash from Mansa by ridding him of cottages. I'm sure he'll rebuild them for us before we get around to him.

We doubled our city count and in 3T we'll have ivory and iron, though the iron won't be connected to our empire just yet. I think we need to plan some troop deployments. And probably organize a serious pillage party or two.

I also did some roading near London to make barb defense a bit easier, but that worker can probably be brought south to help with the iron connection effort. There are some troops up north too who could be brought down to help.

We might also want to think about learning Mysticism so we can chop an obelisk in Corinth and make elephant-city more productive.

The 175BC save (http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG006_BC0175_01.CivWarlordsSave )


Here is your Session Turn Log from 400 BC to 175 BC:

Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Barbarian's Warrior (1.29)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 140, 400 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 140, 400 BC: (Barbarian Combat: -5%)
Turn 140, 400 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 10 (90/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 10 (80/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (63/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (26/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (0/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 141, 385 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) (5.00) vs Barbarian's Warrior (2.40)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 141, 385 BC: (Barbarian Combat: -5%)
Turn 141, 385 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 141, 385 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Archer (2.60)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Combat Odds: 99.0%
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman (4.40) vs Alexander's Archer (3.30)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Combat Odds: 73.6%
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman (4.40) vs Alexander's Archer (3.30)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Combat Odds: 73.6%
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman has defeated Alexander's Archer!

Turn 145, 325 BC: You have constructed a Library in London. Work has now begun on a Axeman.
Turn 145, 325 BC: You have trained a Axeman in York. Work has now begun on a Chariot.

Turn 149, 265 BC: You have trained a Axeman in York. Work has now begun on a Chariot.

Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (5.85)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Combat Odds: 23.1%
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Defense: +95%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer has defeated Churchill's Axeman!
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (4.50)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Combat Odds: 63.0%
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Spearman) (4.00) vs Alexander's Archer (2.01)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Combat Odds: 97.3%
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Defense: +95%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Spearman) has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Spearman (4.40) vs Alexander's Chariot (2.00)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Chariot is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Chariot is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Chariot is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Chariot is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Spearman has defeated Alexander's Chariot!
Turn 150, 250 BC: You have captured Corinth!!!

Turn 153, 205 BC: The Great Lighthouse has been built in a far away land!

Turn 155, 175 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Corinth!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (5.85)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Combat Odds: 23.1%
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer has defeated Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman)!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Your SpoonPillageAlpha has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Archer (2.96)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Combat Odds: 96.5%
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (25/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (4/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Your Axeman has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 155, 175 BC: You have captured Thebes!!!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Chariot) (4.40) vs Alexander's Archer (3.30)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Combat Odds: 73.6%
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Chariot) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Chariot) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Chariot) has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Your SpoonPillageAlpha has destroyed a Archer!

Excellent play! We should probably exploit our breakthrough here when Construction comes in. Pillagers are fine, but we can knock Alex out if we keep up this momentum.

Sadly, comments that aren't colored by emotion continue to be unavailable until I get Warlords to actually load. :(

Well, it looks like we're back in business. Seeing as the AI are allowed to trade tech, I think it would be better to eliminate them in series, rather than over-focus on pillaging. Thus Alex shall succumb to Jumbopult. A side order of pillaging for Hannibal and we should be laughing.

:thumbsup:

I just looked at the game again. I hadn't noticed that Corinth (elephant city) has Judaism and already has 1cpt. No need for a monument there! And then we can keep Stonehenge when we get it so we'll never need to build a monument.

I agree with taking out the AIs one-at-a-time. We're going to start hitting war weariness soon, and it's per-civilization.

I'm not sure if the AI is smart enough to pillage that Iron before we come out of revolt. With elephants and cats, though, at least we're not counting on the iron.

After they finish the elephant camp, I think the workers there should both road toward iron and chop banana jungle in anticipation of a farm. Maybe road horses too.

London should grow just as ivory brings us another happy face. Then, we'll want to think about its tiles. I've had it mostly on growth and commerce, but with Construction, we'll probably want to start concentrating on production.

We also need to start thinking about what cities to keep. I'm leaning toward keeping Athens, Sparta, Carthage, and Timbuktu. Unless we run a specialist economy (for which we'll want Caste System), running more than that might just drag us down. It's an open question for me though.

Edit: Also, I've got a spear sitting on the elephant with the workers because it's vulnerable to chariot attack, and at least Alex and Hannibal have horses. Actually, I still don't see any evidence that Mansa has any strategic resources. (He did send 2 skirmishers and a settler off to the east. I pillaged instead of following him though.)

I have to agree the game looks better with having iron and elephants.

Thebes must have been a barb city. I thought the names were mostly different then valid civ names.

Our big question is how many more cities to we want. We totally neglected economy and many more cities will have us to the point of self desctruct.

I bet Hannibal was over there to take Thebes away from the barbarians himself.

I agree with Lee...we're going to need to deal with our economy before long. After we take out Alex, we could use plan to develop Thebes as a commerce city. It has lots of food and a gold (desert though) hill. Corinth too is probably best a commerce city in the long run, though we'll want production for a while in a city that close to our front.

No, Thebes is the name of a Greek and an Egyptian city (historical as well as in CIV).

In BtS, they changed the city name orders for almost all already existing civs, the biggest example being the Indian city names. Thebes was a new city name for the Greeks in BtS, and maybe the HoF mod updated the name list in Warlords?

Things are looking great! I didn't expect things to turn around so quickly. Great work!

Things are looking great! I didn't expect things to turn around so quickly. Great work!

The RNG was reasonable this round. I think I won all battles that had >50% odds though I think I intentionally avoided attacking unless >70% except the first attacker on each conquered city (who died for the cause).

Other than that, I just followed the team plan! :goodjob:

One other thing I forgot to mention: Off the west coast, I saw both a Greek workboat and a Greek trireme (in that order) heading north. I don't expect either to be of any concern to us.

Excellent play, the team has also checked in fully. Looks like we stick through which is great.:)

My turnset is up next and I plan to play today until something comes up. But I agree we should try not to keep too many enemy cities.

I foresee another buildup and consolidation turnset for you, Archduke. I largely took what Kodii had prepared and just used it. We're extended a little thin at the moment, but I think we should be able to hold what we've got while we build up troops for the next push.

Remember that battles in our cultural borders won't incur war weariness for us.

I guess the big decision is how to proceed for tech. I see 3 basic options:

1) Metalcasting for forges (with Gold, that's an extra happy wherever we can get a forge built).

2) Fishing->Sailing: This would allow us to connect Athens without actually building roads to it. Fishing will be needed to work the nets at some point.

3) Myst->Meditation->Priesthood->Monarchy: This would solve all our happiness issues and permit us to build big, researching cities while we press for other techs. Note too that M-M-P are faster than Currency as prereqs for Code of Laws (Courthouses) and then onto Civil Service (Bureaucracy). But those are off the minimal beeline for Astronomy, which we might want to try.

You can always postpone the tech decision by setting research to 0% after Construction is in.

And check the builds in each city. I've been concentrating on axes because they'll be best against metal-possessing AIs, and our soon-to-come elephants will be better than spears against chariots and horse archers.

I think we should snag Mysticism for our happy monuments, then go for Fishing-Sailing, then back to the Monarchy path. Forges cost too many :hammers: for our current city sizes, so we might as well leave it for a while (and let the AI learn it to make it cheaper).

If we capture Stonehenge (in Sparta), won't we get all of our monuments for free? Or do we have to know Mysticism to get them?

Server lag => double post

I tend to agree with the Myst-Monarchy route. I will buildup our forces and infrastructure so the next one up can do our attack.

If we capture Stonehenge (in Sparta), won't we get all of our monuments for free? Or do we have to know Mysticism to get them?
We need Myst anyway for the Monarchy path, so whilst I don't lnow the answer, I don't think that it's important from a research perspective. From a production perspective, we probably don't want to build any monuments unless we start getting :mad: and there's some time to go before we can take Sparta.

I agree with prioritizing Monarchy, though I do think that when Athens comes out of resistance, we'll want to have Fishing.

I think we probably want to take Sparta first, right?

175 BC

Ah well, let´s hope I don´t screw this up.

160 BC

Our axe defends our new city against an Axe, but Hannibal decides to go easy with the chariot and catches our reinforcing Axe northwest of Thebes. Near Corinth, an axe beats a barbarian archer. I let our spear attack at high odds and win but I promote the 2 other units so Corinth is a little bit safer.

130 BC

The second chariot dies to our spearman and Thebes pops its first ring coming out of revolt, the iron must now be connected to our core.

115 BC

A quiet turn.

85 BC

Another quiet turn, the road to Thebes is being built.

75 BC

An archer shows up near Thebes and a GP is born in Sparta, please settle him for us.:)

55 BC

Our axe sorties out of Thebes successfully to prevent a pillage of our iron.

40 BC

Our first catapult is built.

25 BC

Our first Elephant is built.

10 BC

Meditation is discovered, Priesthood next.

5 AD

My turn ends. At 88 % odds I defeat a Numidian Cavalry with the Elephant spearman. Not good imo, but we got Elephants JUST in time. Intel on Athens reports 5! workers and 3 archers, so I suggest a hit when we can amass 2 catapults and one Elephant.

Apart from that try to hook Thebes up and get the wheat worked and it might actually become a good production city.

I whipped nothing in my turn, so we could go with some whipes to reinforce our army with the latest material and go hit Greece.


In any case I think we are on a good track. The bad attack may have hurt us, but the last turnset made us come back. We are not beat yet. No screenies apologies and please watch out for Numidian Cavalries.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG006_AD0005_01.CivWarlordsSave

Way to bring us into the Common Era, Archduke; nicely done. I pretty surprised that our iron remains unpillaged. Nice work on the roadbuilding.

I think I'd make the following changes in builds: I'd cancel the monuments in Corinth and Thebes. Also cancel the walls in Thebes. Better to build troops and take Sparta's Stonehenge for free monuments all around.

Also, I think we can put research at 100% for Monarchy. We might get enough money soon enough from capturing Sparta that we'd be able to go 100% all the way.

I think we want Sparta then Athens. Is the intel on Athens current? Still no copper for him?! Good!

Do we know what kind of defense Sparta has? I'm guessing no more than a couple of archers and a couple of chariots. When I took Corinth, it had 2 archers until 2T before I was able to attack when a chariot showed up too. Be sure to bring spears to attack Sparta since they make chariots easy prey.

I'm not sure if you'll be able to take Sparta, but I suspect if not, it will be soon after.

I've got but I won't play for a day or two in order to get input.

I rather support Athens first as it is laughably weak defended, sorry that I couldn´t gather intel on Sparta, but honestly with 3-4 Catapults, our axes and one Elephant we probably crush Alexander easily.

Please do watch Carthage, those Numidians pack a bunch and Hannibal is building them.

Good points. I bet the reason Athens is so poorly defended is that Alex is building us a wonder there, maybe the Pyramids?

But from a logistics standpoint, it's probably better to take Athens first and then move the front to the east.

Elephants handle Numidians nicely, but you're right: we'll need a number of them located properly.

I'll play this tonight.

I don't have too much to add. Use your best judgment in-game about whether to attack Athens or Sparta first and when you have enough--and the right types of--troops to make the assaults.

It will probably be easier to defend if we take Athens first since the front will then naturally move east. But taking Stonehenge in Sparta first would give our cities more vision sooner and if Alex is building any wonders, it would give him more time to complete them. (Or give him time to hook up copper, which might be worse for us.

Switched the builds around on the IHT: Jumbo in London (to whip into the cat), Spear in Eleville, Barrack in Thebes. 1 pop whip the cat in York as working the Spices is pretty meh. York can churn 5 turn cats at size 3, so why pay extra maint?

The Spear that dealt with the Numid got Formation and now owns Numids: 95% odds next time around. Hanny will have to come mob-handed to beat him.

But this was all about Alex and his :smoke: : early on he sends out a lone archer from Athens as I'm checking his defences. Whack! :lol: and later I lure his chariot onto our Iron at the end of its turn :deadhorse: And best of all:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u113/Swiss_Pauli/Civ4ScreenShot0247-1.jpg

A Settler party :woohoo: They made a tasty snack and no indigestion either!

The assault on Athens was a bit more taxing: I chose to bomb down defences til 14% with an Acu-cat as the defenders were few. 1st Jumbos died (vs dug in CG3 Archer) then Jumbo 2 wins, lose 2 elite axes, but then mop up:

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u113/Swiss_Pauli/Civ4ScreenShot0252.jpg

I finished the turn and stopped here. Switched from Monarchy to Sailing: when London grows we should be able to time Sailing for end of Athenian rebellion, by stagnating it on commerce tiles. Monarchy can then be finished with the Spartan conquest cash.

Instructions for next player

I moved Farsight into the 'hot' zone, as Mansa has no military resources. I had him moving up and down the road to watch for incoming troops each turn.

Cat in Corinth should be whipped next turn. I meant to 2 pop whip the Jumbo but there was too much chop overflow. Sword is lined up to take the overflow in London. Spear lined up in Thebes so that the elite Spear can join the Spartan attack force. Jumbo at Athens badly wounded, so should be promoted to CII so it can join the attack quicker.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG006_AD0185_01.CivWarlordsSave

I see we're beginning to move up the curve a bit: when we take the Christian holy city of Sparta we should start to get back into the pack!

Very well done. Mmmm...tasty settler party.... :Homer drooling:

The next turnset with its focus on getting to--and keeping--Sparta is reasonably clear. Good advice from Swiss.

I do think we need to have a discussion about how many and which cities to found or keep before we get too much past Greece.

I'd like to throw out a potential strategy and see what we think of it: Farm the AIs. Let them keep their cities, but deny them metal and horses. (Maybe we even take all cities from them which have strategic resources.)

The reason for this would be to let them develop cities--including cottages--for us so that we don't have to pay the maintenance on them while they're being improved.

Also, we can try to find a nice number of our own cities (I dunno, 5 or 6?) to keep or found and grow those nicely.

My initial thinking has been that it's better to gain exclusive control over this continent asap, but perhaps it's better for us in the long-term to capture more mature cities when we're better able to support them?

War weariness could be minimized for us by keeping our attacks within our own borders.

I don't know. I'm trying to think of ways that our early army loss can be turned from a flaw to a feature. Does anyone know the details of city maintenance costs (number and distance breakdown) for this size and level of map?

Any thoughts or opinions are welcome.

I just updated the roster and have Lee up next with Kodii on deck. (I still need to get to the "continuing saga" post.)

I haven't looked at the game much, but will probably be able to offer some detailed thoughts tomorrow. I have the impression that we're very close to wiping out Alex altogether.

I just updated the roster and have Lee up next with Kodii on deck. (I still need to get to the "continuing saga" post.)

:confused: I don't see a roster in your post. I'm not sure what was "updated".

I have it for tomorrow. I still need to play LK140 tonight.

I have to play then, or you won't see anything before Sunday night. Get your comments in quickly.

:confused: I don't see a roster in your post. I'm not sure what was "updated".

So that we always know who's up, I have the roster in post #2 of this thread. Sometimes I'm a day or two behind in moving people from "on deck" to "up", but the order is almost always current.

Playing tomorrow will be great. Please post any comments all!

Not much for the next set anyways... I would say keep building up that army and take Sparta. Perhaps we could then allot our remaining army into pillaging parties for each AI, or immediately invade Carthage.

I do think we need to have a discussion about how many and which cities to found or keep before we get too much past Greece.

I'd like to throw out a potential strategy and see what we think of it: Farm the AIs. Let them keep their cities, but deny them metal and horses. (Maybe we even take all cities from them which have strategic resources.)

The reason for this would be to let them develop cities--including cottages--for us so that we don't have to pay the maintenance on them while they're being improved.
It's only Prince, so maintenance shouldn't be a problem on our home continent. We should raze sub-optimal sites, but you can see Hanny has settled on Iron, so that one needs to go whatever we decide.
War weariness could be minimized for us by keeping our attacks within our own borders.
Not really the best approach for a Dom/Conq win is it? ;)
I don't know. I'm trying to think of ways that our early army loss can be turned from a flaw to a feature. Does anyone know the details of city maintenance costs (number and distance breakdown) for this size and level of map?
Well, maybe it forced Alex into his mental breakdown: he didn't even mine the copper of re-pasture the sheep, and went worker/settler heavy in Athens. And founded Jesusism to boot :crazyeye:

The first attack was a (narrow) failure, but we have proven to ourselves that we can recover from set-backs. With a lack of practice games, we were never going to compete for laurels anyway, so we now have the challenge of a catch-up game, which might be more rewarding than our usual mid-pack game :p

Bah, what is better then to return from a setback.

I never got the feeling that we try to compete for the medals.:)

Not too much to add here, go after Sparta and build up our army so we can raze most of Carthage next (except for the capital).

If nothing goes wrong we should soon begin to plan our after war moves when we united the continent.

One more thing for Lee is that there are two workers at Corinth who should farm the bananas next turn. Our new workers at Athens may as well road up the copper and sheep.

Finally, I didn't improve Thebes much as the FPs are too close to Spartan chariots.

One more thing for Lee is that there are two workers at Corinth who should farm the bananas next turn.
:crazyeye: :crazyeye:
That just sounds so whacked.
If it is the best action I will do it, but spending worker that you know will be throw away later never sits rights with it.

:crazyeye: :crazyeye:
That just sounds so whacked.
If it is the best action I will do it, but spending worker that you know will be throw away later never sits rights with it.
I meant to get round to answering this earlier, but will do so know. What you need to look at is the other options for the workers at the given time. In the case of the banana farms, London and Corinth lack food and improving the banana will give a 4-0-1, but farming the grass will give a 3-0-1. So the temporary banana-farm gives a better yield than the permanent farm.

If one is running slavery then you can whip away citizens working unattractive tiles, so the extra worker turns spent on temporary improvements are not wasted because of the superior yield during their lifetime. Thus the dyes cottage (which we should keep forever as we'll get some more IIRC), and the (temporary) banana cottage at London are good investments.

Indeed, in LK140 Lincoln made a banana-cottage at London, which means Blake thinks it's a good idea, too. And he's a lot better than me at CIV :D

My fav commerce city is one with lots of sugar. I leave one non-improved and cottage the rest. They are just like floodplains without the health hit.

I use the same reasoning that Swiss has posted. Especially considering that we may want to delay Calendar because of soon-to-be-ours Stonehenge.

Good point, ruff. Especially true in a game like this with no trades to the AI.

My fav commerce city is one with lots of sugar. I leave one non-improved and cottage the rest. They are just like floodplains without the health hit.

Mine is one with 20 grassland gems :)

But yeah, I agree w/ the majority about the banana farm. The simple fact is that by the time we can build the plantation, we'll probably have excess worker turns anyways, so we get bonus food now with no later penalty.

Mine is one with 20 grassland gems :)Do you see that sort of site very often? :D

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG006_AD0275_01.CivWarlordsSave

185 AD
Ouch - I can't believe London is still just size 5 and double whipped.
Our positive cash flow is to low. We need to start prioritizing the economy.

I am starting to wonder how out of sync I am with the team. I disagree with to many of the little items such as the dye cottage, and whipping York back to size three.
I still think the dyes cottage at London is a mistake. I really hate relying on a single source of happiness that can get pillaged and screw up multiple cities. Dyes are only +1 gold without improvement, and that little income IMHO doesn't justify the risk of the whole empire losing access to the other dye due to pillaging.


215 AD
Scratch a stray Numidian.


230 AD
How is the Oracle still available to build? :crazyeye:
We aren't fighting all of the civs...
(IT) I've seen no clear discussion on tech path, so I picked CoL to help salvage the economy.


245 AD
However, science dropped to zero so nothing is invested. We are now making -2 dollars at zero science. I really hope Athens coming on-line helps fix this.


260 AD
The bombardment of Sparta begins.


275 AD
The assault of Sparta begins. Our first catapult lost at 65% odds, but the CG1 archer is broken. I then proceed to take Sparta with no more losses. We gain Stonehenge, granary and lighthouse. However, this is no Christian Shrine. :(



Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (9.60) vs Alexander's Archer (9.42)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Combat Odds: 57.5%
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Plot Defense: +39%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (City Defense: +125%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer has defeated Churchill's War Elephant!
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (8.80) vs Alexander's Archer (7.47)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Combat Odds: 66.4%
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Plot Defense: +39%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Fortify: +15%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (4.48)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Combat Odds: 63.3%
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Plot Defense: +39%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (City Defense: +125%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (City Attack: -75%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Combat: +10%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (42/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (24/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (6/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer has defeated Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman)!
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (5.07)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Combat Odds: 30.9%
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Plot Defense: +39%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer has defeated Churchill's Axeman!
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (0.50)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Plot Defense: +39%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (City Defense: +125%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Combat: +10%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Archer (0.28)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Plot Defense: +39%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Hills: +25%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 179, 185 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 179, 185 AD: You have captured Athens!!!
Turn 179, 185 AD: Logging Game to File: autolog.txt
Turn 179, 185 AD: You have trained a War Elephant in London. Work has now begun on a Swordsman.
Turn 179, 185 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Thebes. Work has now begun on a Spearman.

Turn 180, 200 AD: You have trained a Catapult in Corinth. Work has now begun on a War Elephant.

Turn 181, 215 AD: Churchill's Spearman (4.80) vs Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry (3.22)
Turn 181, 215 AD: Combat Odds: 89.9%
Turn 181, 215 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 181, 215 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 181, 215 AD: (Combat: -125%)
Turn 181, 215 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 181, 215 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 24 (76/100HP)
Turn 181, 215 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 181, 215 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 181, 215 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 181, 215 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 24 (52/100HP)
Turn 181, 215 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 24 (28/100HP)
Turn 181, 215 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 181, 215 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 181, 215 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 181, 215 AD: Churchill's Spearman has defeated Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry!

Turn 182, 230 AD: You have discovered Sailing!
Turn 182, 230 AD: Mansa Musa adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 183, 245 AD: Corinth will grow to size 3 on the next turn
Turn 183, 245 AD: The Temple of Artemis has been built in a far away land!

Turn 184, 260 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Sparta to 30%!
Turn 184, 260 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Sparta to 24%!
Turn 184, 260 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Sparta to 18%!
Turn 184, 260 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Sparta to 12%!
Turn 184, 260 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 24 ? for Athens.
Turn 184, 260 AD: Corinth has grown to size 3

Turn 185, 275 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Sparta to 2%!
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (4.56)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Combat Odds: 62.3%
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (1 Unit)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 185, 275 AD: Chandragupta Maurya (Great General) has been born in Sparta (Alexander)!
Turn 185, 275 AD: Your Catapult has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (4.14)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Combat Odds: 68.1%
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (67/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Your Catapult has withdrawn from combat with a Archer!
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (3.15)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Combat Odds: 88.9%
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 22 (45/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 22 (23/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 22 (1/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 185, 275 AD: Your Catapult has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Archer (0.91)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 185, 275 AD: Your Axeman has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 185, 275 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 185, 275 AD: You have captured Sparta!!!
Turn 185, 275 AD: The Greek Civilization has been destroyed!!!


=======================

New Updates
Beyond Sparta I didn't see a clear plan, so I stopped after taking it.
Taking Sparta helped our score a lot. Once we get all those border expansion, we should jump again.

I started exploring south of Athens, and it looks like there is a lot of tundra garbage down there. The land mass may be bigger then we first thought.

I started building a stack by Corinth. I wasn't sure where we were heading next, and this is at least a central area to build up.

For the first time ever, I actually looked at one of the Turn Logs that sometimes get posted on these reports. I couldn't help but laugh. I think you lost 3 battles that had better than 50% odds, and didn't win any that you were expected to lose. I'm pretty sure the game's RNG generator has a "LKendter" bias that means that odds are only even at about 60%.

Well played, Lee. And a good stopping point too. Good thinking to look south of Athens. Still no evidence of any other AIs though.

Our economy is...in shambles. How do we want to fix it? Or do we need to? With cats, swords and elephants, it will be no trouble at all to eliminate the rest of the AIs here.

Also, it's time to start talking about great people. The clock has started with our capture of Stonehenge. We can easily expedite a priest by discovering Priesthood and recruiting a temple denizen. Or, we could take advantage of Athens' food a get a scientist quickly. Actually, if we work at it, we could probably get two scientists before Stonehenge pops a prophet. We can probably use them to expedite Astronomy, right?

Had a look at the save and have the following comments:

- I'm suprised we went to Sparta without a Spear or Jumbo, leaving us vulnerable to a chariot attack. Can we move the spear from Thebes to Sparta via the approach road from Hannibal?

- Please cancel the library in Corinth: this is a production town with little commerce potential in the medium term.

- Let's whip Athens' Library (and why is there a citizen assigned?).

- Where next? Hannibal, obviously. I think we should move ASAP, so get the cats out of Corinth, but we should move the Axe/Jumbo to 1N of the city to see whether it has another source of food than the plains cows we can see. It is a shame to raze a size 7 city, but we should so if it's as food poor as it looks now.

- Mansa has a settler party near York. I assume he'll found on the current tile for Rice/Cows/Stone. How kind of him!

- Let's get an exploring WB out of Athens to check whether Ragnar-gate is possible. This will help us decide the GP policy.

- I assume Alex LB'd Theo with his Henge prophet.

- Although I'd said to finish Monarchy after Sailing, I think CoL is better as we have a high happy ceiling.

It is a shame to raze a size 7 city, but we should so if it's as food poor as it looks now.
At this point I think it would be a shame to keep any more cities. We are at negative cash flow at 0% science. Another city or two could put us on strike.

Lee, we're not negative, we're positive (just). And you've built up a big cash reserve, too. We're also paying for upkeep on those southern exploring units and the workers south of Athens chopping that tundra forest.

If London works its cottages more as it grows to the new happy cap, and we cottage Thebes, Athens, and Sparta, we'll turn the economy round. Until then we can survive on city conquest cash and use that for the run to CoL.

If we begin to crash, we can delete some warriors and chariots.

Think positive guys!

I started exploring south of Athens, and it looks like there is a lot of tundra garbage down there. The land mass may be bigger then we first thought.This is interesting. I'm going to crack open the latest save and take a look at the domination limit. Wouldn't it be nice if one of these GOTM's was won by a non-conquest means?

PS: why does that bunny have a pancake on its head?

Edit: It turns out that this pic is all over the internet. The bunny (RIP) even has its own entry in that most trustworthy of websites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oolong_(rabbit)).

Edit2: Borg Bunny (http://sokaisha.hp.infoseek.co.jp/021216/021216.htm)

If London works its cottages more as it grows to the new happy cap, and we cottage Thebes, Athens, and Sparta, we'll turn the economy round. Until then we can survive on city conquest cash and use that for the run to CoL.
I can tell we really look at the game differently. I suffered badly in several solo AW attempts. The common thread was collapsing economy and the AI getting better units.
I consider 0% science totally unacceptable except at end game for the final domination push, or the tail end of a war where the ONLY reason for low science is high WW.

I agree we badly need to get more conquest cash from razing more AI cities, and pillage mania. We need to get to the point that we can get courts in place and start to turn things around.


Think positive guys!
After that Athens disaster, I've lost my ability to think positive in this game. :cry:

Got it.

I'll whip up the save and take a look.

We're in better shape than I expected (excluding our economy). I think that we have enough troops near Hadrumetum to raze that city. Then when our troops in Hadrumetum and Sparta heal, they can converge to attack and keep Carthage, then wipe up from there.

Mansa is essentially already screwed without resources, but we probably want to tackle him down before he gets Feudalism.

How feasible would it be, considering our current shield production and economy, to clear right through Hannibal and then Mansa?

Assuming Mansa doesn't get LBs anytime soon, I think its possible, whilst sending searching WBs and converting some of our core cities into economic cities.

Hard to say about Mansa. Maybe we'd be best sending a PP his way once we capture Carthage? In any event, Mansa's LB's are only 2 str more than his skirmishers, so it's not that tragic if we can't take him before he gets Feudalism.

@Lee: just look at our curve...if we can keep up that trajectory we'll be up near CRC :p

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/submit/civ4sgotm_submission_list.php

Edit: see 3 posts down for real thinking. This post and 2 down are wrong - sorry.

I think that we need to push 100% for a settler spam now. Look at this ...

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8626/count1uy7.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7453/count2ol6.jpg

The dom limit is 64%. We currently own 76 tiles / 15.66% giving a total land tile count of approx 485. Therefore the land target for dom is about 311. There are 488 tiles in the above pictures (which sort of makes my tile calculations a little funny). Something is fishy. Can the next person to run a set please turn on ALERTS and set the domination warnings to 100% - that will generate a warning that we are within 100% of domination and give us our domination targets.

actually - you have to fiddle with the underlying HOF ini file to get those messages - do you want me to click enter and upload the save at the START of next turn so that we can get the official limit?

Edit: ignore this offer - not going to help us.

I think something's gone weird with the Dom calculations in this game. Anyone know how the game makes these reckonings? Maybe Gyathaar has messed with this part to confuse everyone?

Edit: see next post for real thinking. This post is wrong - sorry.

The usual way I calc the number of land tiles required is look at our land squ miles (F9, statistics), divide that by 1000 which gives us the number of tiles we currently control (76 in this case), look at our dom %age (F8) (15.66% in this case) and do the maths ... 76 / .1566 = 485.31 - it is always a little off for some reason. Alerts will give you the true dom tile count if we turn it on and turn up the warning range from the default 5% to 100% (need to manually edit the HOF.ini file to put in 100%).

As we can see about 500 tiles, it sort of means that the islands are really tiny.

ok, I'm a moron ... 15.66% is our pop %age. Our land %age is 6.23% ... therefore total land is 1220. Tiles required for dom = 781. Guess the settler spam on our land will not get us there.

Ignore all of the above posts ... sigh.

Good efforts, ruff. I actually made a quick calculation a while back (found it in post #136) of the domination land requirements. It looks like our numbers agree. Also, it looks like the assumption that there isn't enough land on the starting continent to dominate is true.

It is a good point, though. Especially with Stonehenge (or more efficiently Caste System), we might be able to find enough islands to get domination. These "Big and Small" maps typically have one big continent (ours, obviously) and a bunch of small islands. If the small islands are within galley range, we can do the settler spam and still win an early domination victory. We'll want a workboat or trireme out of Athens soon to check the west coast. And one out of Carthage to look east. Triremes would be safer from barb and/or Ragnar galleys.

I thought Swiss's comments on the latest save were good. I wouldn't pillage Mansa too much (except if he happens to find or pop strategic resources). We'll want his land nice and improved if we are to keep any of his cities.

Anyone very experienced with a specialist economy? It might be of use to us here since we're likely to overexpand quickly. (Probably already have done so.)

I'm short of posting time, so that's it for now.

I would have played today, but I ended up working ALL day... which is extremely fun on a Saturday. And for double the fun, I work all tomorrow morning and most of the afternoon. I can probably play tomorrow evening, but if you are itching to keep moving, swap me.

I think tomorrow is fine.

On a related note, I have sunrise on deck, but I'm not sure he's confirmed that he can load and play the saves yet. Sunrise, what's your availability over the next few days?

Anyone very experienced with a specialist economy? It might be of use to us here since we're likely to overexpand quickly. (Probably already have done so.)
Yeah, I've used it a fair bit lately. Obviously we don't have Pyramids, so it's more of an emergency option for us. However, seeing as we want to keep warring then Currency is huge tech for us because of wealth building. If we decide we have enough troops we can put cities like Corinth on wealth and keep ourselves afloat. I can't remember what the conversion of :hammers: to :commerce: is in Warlords. Anyone know? This will tell us whether CoL or Currency has higher priority for us.

T0 275AD- I cancel Corinth's library, whip Athens' library

IBT - Mansa founds exactly where Swiss predicted

T1 290AD - Whip overflow in Athens is put into Barracks.

T2 305AD - Hadrumetum has rice, along with the cattle

IBT - Confucianism is FIADL

T3 320AD - Bombardment of Hadrumetum begins

IBT - Christianity spreads to Thebes

T4 335AD - Bombardment continues

T5 350AD - Athens completes Barracks, begins a WB; I pause here

We need to decide whether or not to keep Hadrumetum. We also need to decide what to do with the GG we just got in Corinth. I brought Hadrumetum down to a single defender without any losses.

I say no, just because we don't need any more cities, and we have iron already.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b29/Kodi_87/SGOTM6/Civ4ScreenShot0003.jpg

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG006_AD0350_01.CivWarlordsSave

Here is your Session Turn Log from 275 AD to 350 AD:

Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (4.56)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Combat Odds: 62.3%
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 185, 275 AD: Chandragupta Maurya (Great General) has been born in Sparta (Alexander)!
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (4.14)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Combat Odds: 68.1%
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (67/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (3.15)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Combat Odds: 88.9%
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 22 (45/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 22 (23/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 22 (1/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Archer (0.91)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Plot Defense: +2%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Alexander's Archer is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 185, 275 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 185, 275 AD: You have captured Sparta!!!
Turn 185, 275 AD: The Greek Civilization has been destroyed!!!

Turn 186, 290 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Hannibal's Chariot (4.80)
Turn 186, 290 AD: Combat Odds: 65.0%
Turn 186, 290 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 186, 290 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 186, 290 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 186, 290 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 186, 290 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 186, 290 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 186, 290 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 186, 290 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Hannibal's Chariot!

Turn 187, 305 AD: Churchill's Spearman (4.40) vs Hannibal's Chariot (2.22)
Turn 187, 305 AD: Combat Odds: 99.1%
Turn 187, 305 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 187, 305 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 187, 305 AD: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 187, 305 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 187, 305 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 187, 305 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 187, 305 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 187, 305 AD: Churchill's Spearman has defeated Hannibal's Chariot!
Turn 187, 305 AD: Corinth will grow to size 4 on the next turn
Turn 187, 305 AD: Confucianism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 188, 320 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Hadrumetum to 17%!
Turn 188, 320 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Hadrumetum to 14%!
Turn 188, 320 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Hadrumetum to 11%!
Turn 188, 320 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (8.00) vs Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry (3.84)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 188, 320 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 188, 320 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry!
Turn 188, 320 AD: Your War Elephant has destroyed a Numidian Cavalry!
Turn 188, 320 AD: Corinth has grown to size 4
Turn 188, 320 AD: Christianity has spread in Thebes.
Turn 188, 320 AD: Thebes will grow to size 4 on the next turn
Turn 188, 320 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry (6.00) vs Churchill's War Elephant (8.64)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Combat Odds: 19.0%
Turn 188, 320 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 188, 320 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 15 (57/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 15 (42/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 26 (74/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 26 (48/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 26 (22/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 15 (27/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 15 (12/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 188, 320 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry!
Turn 188, 320 AD: While defending, your War Elephant has killed a Carthaginian Numidian Cavalry!

Turn 189, 335 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Hadrumetum to 8%!
Turn 189, 335 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 14 ? for Athens.
Turn 189, 335 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Hadrumetum to 5%!
Turn 189, 335 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Hadrumetum to 2%!
Turn 189, 335 AD: Thebes has grown to size 4
Turn 189, 335 AD: Athens's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 190, 350 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Hadrumetum to 0%!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Hannibal's Archer (3.90)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Combat Odds: 71.3%
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Hannibal's Archer!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Your Catapult has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Hannibal's Catapult (4.16)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Combat Odds: 73.0%
Turn 190, 350 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Your Catapult has caused collateral damage! (3 Units)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Hannibal's Catapult!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Your Catapult has destroyed a Catapult!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Swordsman (6.00) vs Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry (4.20)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Combat Odds: 88.8%
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 22 (58/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 22 (36/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 22 (14/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Swordsman has defeated Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Vercingetorix (Great General) has been born in Corinth (Churchill)!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Your Swordsman has destroyed a Numidian Cavalry!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Hannibal's Chariot (3.74)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Combat Odds: 89.6%
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Hannibal's Chariot!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Your Axeman has destroyed a Chariot!

We need to decide whether or not to keep Hadrumetum. We also need to decide what to do with the GG we just got in Corinth. I brought Hadrumetum down to a single defender without any losses.

My vote is raze that puppy. +5 at 0% science says we want afford any cities. I hope we can pillage like crazy. We need to get researching again.

Yeah, let's raze.

As far as my place in the roster goes, I haven't yet taken the time to uninstall and then re-install in release order all three Civ games, which I assume if the proper fix for me. I will also be out of state at a friend's wedding next weekend as well, so perhaps I could trade with whoever is up Wed or Thurs if I can get my install sorted out by then.

I say keep, because it has good food and production (and some commerce potential), but it looks like I'll be out-voted.

Can we please get an exploring WB out of Athens during the next set? We really need to know the answer to the Ragnar-gate question.

EDIT: Kodii, I guess you're planning to continue tonight?

Yes I will continue. I was hoping to hear from Compromise too regarding Hadrumetum, but thats okay. Athens already has a WB ordered up, which should be completed near the end of my turnset.

T5 350AD - I raze Hadrumetum because we don't need another city just yet, and we can always resettle it later. Unfortunately, in the final assault, I lost a spearman at 83.7% odds. :mad:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b29/Kodi_87/SGOTM6/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

IBT - Christianity spreads to Athens; Parthenon and Pyramids BIADL

T8 395AD - Begin the march to Carthage

T10 425AD - WB completed in Athens and begins the journey to Ragnar-gate

T11 440AD - Our troops are in place beside Carthage, and I end here

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b29/Kodi_87/SGOTM6/Civ4ScreenShot0009.jpg

Several notes:

- The Oracle has yet to be built... I'm tempted to start it :lol:
- The troop convergence in Corinth can be send to quickly raze Kerkouane
- We have a GG in Corinth, awaiting orders
- Our troops at Carthage should bombard then attack, I vote to keep it
- Our WB (SS Ragnargate) is making its way up the coast
- Our workers have generally fully developed both Athens and Corinth, and are now at Thebes to make some cottage cheese
- The entire southern tundra has been scouted, and we spot some land to the east to be discovered

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b29/Kodi_87/SGOTM6/Civ4ScreenShot0006.jpg

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm6/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG006_AD0440_01.CivWarlordsSave

Here is your Session Turn Log from 350 AD to 440 AD:

Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Hannibal's Archer (3.90)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Combat Odds: 71.3%
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 22 (78/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Archer is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Hannibal's Archer!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Hannibal's Catapult (4.16)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Combat Odds: 73.0%
Turn 190, 350 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Catapult is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Catapult has defeated Hannibal's Catapult!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Swordsman (6.00) vs Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry (4.20)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Combat Odds: 88.8%
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 22 (58/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 22 (36/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 22 (14/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Swordsman has defeated Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Vercingetorix (Great General) has been born in Corinth (Churchill)!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Hannibal's Chariot (3.74)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Combat Odds: 89.6%
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 22 (56/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 22 (34/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 22 (12/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Hannibal's Chariot!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Spearman (4.80) vs Hannibal's Spearman (3.90)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Combat Odds: 83.7%
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 19 (24/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Spearman is hit for 20 (58/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 19 (5/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Spearman is hit for 20 (38/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 19 (0/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Spearman has defeated Churchill's Spearman!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Spearman) (4.80) vs Hannibal's Spearman (1.90)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Spearman is hit for 23 (15/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Hannibal's Spearman is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 190, 350 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Spearman) has defeated Hannibal's Spearman!
Turn 190, 350 AD: You have captured Hadrumetum!!!
Turn 190, 350 AD: You have destroyed the city of Hadrumetum!!!
Turn 190, 350 AD: The borders of Athens have expanded!
Turn 190, 350 AD: Zhang Heng (Great Engineer) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 191, 365 AD: Churchill's War Elephant (9.60) vs Hannibal's Chariot (3.07)
Turn 191, 365 AD: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 191, 365 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 191, 365 AD: (Extra Combat: +20%)
Turn 191, 365 AD: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 191, 365 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 33 (67/100HP)
Turn 191, 365 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 33 (34/100HP)
Turn 191, 365 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 33 (1/100HP)
Turn 191, 365 AD: Hannibal's Chariot is hit for 33 (0/100HP)
Turn 191, 365 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Hannibal's Chariot!
Turn 191, 365 AD: Christianity has spread in Athens.
Turn 191, 365 AD: The borders of Sparta have expanded!
Turn 191, 365 AD: The Parthenon has been built in a far away land!
Turn 191, 365 AD: The Pyramids has been built in a far away land!

Turn 193, 395 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Spearman) (4.80) vs Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry (3.03)
Turn 193, 395 AD: Combat Odds: 95.5%
Turn 193, 395 AD: (Extra Combat: -20%)
Turn 193, 395 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 193, 395 AD: (Combat: -125%)
Turn 193, 395 AD: (Combat: +50%)
Turn 193, 395 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 193, 395 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 193, 395 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Spearman) is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 193, 395 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 193, 395 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Spearman) is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 193, 395 AD: Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 193, 395 AD: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Spearman) has defeated Hannibal's Numidian Cavalry!
Turn 193, 395 AD: London has grown to size 8
Turn 193, 395 AD: Thebes's cultural boundary is about to expand.

Turn 194, 410 AD: The borders of Thebes have expanded!
Turn 194, 410 AD: Athens will grow to size 5 on the next turn

Turn 195, 425 AD: Athens has grown to size 5

Be sure to keep Hadrumetum.

No, just kidding. I'd actually started a reply to this post and thought I posted it, but I must've closed out before hitting "submit."

I actually didn't have a strong opinion one way or the other about Hadrumetum. I don't think it'll affect our game too much.

Good work Kodii. I hope to be able to look things over tonight or early tomorrow to post more thoughts. With sunrise out, I think I'm up.

Edit: This is my 1000th post!

Let's keep Carthage, heal and head onwards and upwards!

We need to keep Carthage but we definetly need to appoint some scientists soon and repair our economy soonish.

Atm I doubt we can even afford to keep Timbuktu, though we should continue to clean out the AIs in any case.

Btw, who is next?

Do we have enough cash to research CoL yet? We can't keep ignoring science.

I was disgusted that I had to shut research off, and it still isn't back. We've hit the exact point I fear with AW - economic stagnation.

There's nothing to fear in this situation: most AW games have all the Civs on one landmass, which is not the case here. And we're simply having a spell in binary research ;)

The counterbalances to economic stagnation are as follows:

1) We get cash from taking each city, so we can binary research.

2) We're knocking out competitors, so there is less need to keep up research.

3) Most importantly, we're upping our land and population far above what it would be in a peaceful game, so whatever science we can make from a couple scientists per city or from 20% research once our troops are inside our lands ends up being more total beakers per turn than it would be in a small empire.

I'm convinced knocking out AIs is much better than allowing them to trickle attack us until we develop some hypothetical late-game advantage...after all, how much more favorable can it get than Jumbos and Cats vs Archers?

I'm convinced knocking out AIs is much better than allowing them to trickle attack us until we develop some hypothetical late-game advantage...after all, how much more favorable can it get than Jumbos and Cats vs. Archers?
I am not saying that we stop beating up AIs.

However, I feel like I am the only team member that wants to get science moving forward and it is quite frustrating.

I am with LKendter on this one, we need to reestablish research quickly, probably with some scientists to get vital techs.

Carthage must be taken imo, but we need to be ready to take the fallout from it now. We need specialists and quickly so.

I am with LKendter on this one, we need to reestablish research quickly, probably with some scientists to get vital techs.

Carthage must be taken imo, but we need to be ready to take the fallout from it now. We need specialists and quickly so.

Oh I agree as well...to the point that I favor doing what is necessary to create as many beakers while continuing the war. I think LK and TheArchduke are suggesting the right micro-level strategies to keep our tech going, and in fact don't really see a general difference of opinion here.

Where I see a gap between members of the team is simply how concerned we are about the tech rate :) So long as we agree that we want to continue the war, then any micro decisions that preserve tech are no-brainers. But if we are continuing the offensive, why let a low tech rate bother us? I don't think the more hawkish players in the roster are actually disagreeing with you LK, it's just that we realize there's only so much we can do to help science right now.

But if we are continuing the offensive, why let a low tech rate bother us? I don't think the more hawkish players in the roster are actually disagreeing with you LK; it's just that we realize there's only so much we can do to help science right now.

I give up on this argument. It is clear that I am out of sync with the team.

I've suffered too many games of AW hell in solo play, and the common element was scientific self-destruct. I don't have the energy or tolerance to suffer with it again.

People, we don´t have ANY research right now.

We can´t afford too many turns of that and we should definetly turn this around now.

I give up on this argument. It is clear that I am out of sync with the team.

I've suffered too many games of AW hell in solo play, and the common element was scientific self-destruct. I don't have the energy or tolerance to suffer with it again.

LK - I apologize if I'm coming off as argumentative, I'm really not trying to, I simply fail to see what the actual argument is.

Reading all of the recent posts, I fail to see two different courses of action being dictated. Instead I see a serie