Rare to have too many cats, but can have too few other units; still, when in doubt, cats, is not a bad plan.

"Then the only way to quickly reinforce the Persian theater is to chain Galleons through the eastern ocean." Thanks, leif -- thought I might have been missing something. I think that we should proceed for two turns presuming no eastern chaining and then adjust if necessary.

Rare to have too many cats, but can have too few other units; still, when in doubt, cats, is not a bad plan.

Thus far, without counting Athens, Carthage or Baghdad, SCT's whip plan produces:
18 Cats
10 War Elephants
1 Sword
1 Chariot
and
1 Galleon

"Then the only way to quickly reinforce the Persian theater is to chain Galleons through the eastern ocean." Thanks, leif -- thought I might have been missing something. I think that we should proceed for two turns presuming no eastern chaining and then adjust if necessary.
You're welcome. I haven't known you to miss much. :goodjob:

Appreciate all the discussion. Fred, my 40 pop=30cats actually was meant to be academic and a little extreme, but was presented to continue us thinking down those lines of mass whipping. :whipped: :ar15:

The whip plan is an excellent idea, cheers!


I'm fine with Monarchy and emphasizing a road from Tim. A whip plan for each city makes sense. What about a division of labor at this point: JT, rrau, and I concentrate on the battlefield (we're going to be playing); Gator, SCT, leif, and Fred micro-manage our production, whipping, and transport to the theater?

I'm happy where our plan is sitting at the moment; with monarchy, chopping for gold and the labour division.

Appreciate all the discussion. Fred, my 40 pop=30cats actually was meant to be academic and a little extreme, but was presented to continue us thinking down those lines of mass whipping. :whipped: :ar15:

I know. I, on the other hand, was serious when I suggested that you pay for our maintenance out of your own pocket :groucho:.

What about a division of labor at this point: JT, rrau, and I concentrate on the battlefield (we're going to be playing); SCT, leif, and Fred micro-manage our production, whipping, and transport to the theater?

I don't think this will work. Since we want to optimize our game we need to consider codependencies between battlefield, transportation and production. Would such a division of labor mean that if leif or ShannonCT or myself had ideas for the battlefield we should not post them?

"Then the only way to quickly reinforce the Persian theater is to chain Galleons through the eastern ocean." Thanks, leif -- thought I might have been missing something. I think that we should proceed for two turns presuming no eastern chaining and then adjust if necessary.

Strictly speaking this is true. You could argue (and I already did here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6422232&postcount=989)) that we can use these units in a 3rd theater somewhere SW of Uppsala. If we do this our Persian army will have less cities to worry about and they can concentrate on the area where they are now. The idea being that we minimize land travel.

I know. I, on the other hand, was serious when I suggested that you pay for our maintenance out of your own pocket :groucho:. Seemed reasonable to me.


I don't think this will work. Since we want to optimize our game we need to consider codependencies between battlefield, transportation and production. Would such a division of labor mean that if leif or ShannonCT or myself had ideas for the battlefield we should not post them? There is so much detail to sort through in this complicated and uncertain situation that I didn't have time to examine, and to give useful advice on, everything. The idea would be for each group to concentrate on one of two general areas, post a concensus plan worked out among them (perhaps using some PM's to avoid thread clutter) and then let the other group offer constructive criticism before proceeding with play. May be a bad idea.

Strictly speaking this is true. You could argue (and I already did here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6422232&postcount=989)) that we can use these units in a 3rd theater somewhere SW of Uppsala. If we do this our Persian army will have less cities to worry about and they can concentrate on the area where they are now. The idea being that we minimize land travel.
:yup: I think I see what you mean, sorry for being a bit dense.

Please correct me if I am wrong, essentially what you are saying is that we can reinforce the Persian effort by inserting another combat group to the theater from a different direction. We split the responsibilities in the cities they go after, thus asking each group to take fewer cities while still affecting the whole.

It isn't necessary for the Galleon chain to go all the way to the western side of Persia. :thumbsup:

I'll need some help setting up a ship chain.....I've not done one since civ3 since I didn't know they could be done in civ4.

Also, if Gator could leave notes at the end of his turn log with which units in transit are supposed to go where, that would help.

I know. I, on the other hand, was serious when I suggested that you pay for our maintenance out of your own pocket :groucho:.

Payday's not until Thursday... what's the current exchange rate between Civ gold [civ4] :commerce: and New Zealand dollars :sheep: :gold: ?

Payday's not until Thursday... what's the current exchange rate between Civ gold [civ4] :commerce: and New Zealand dollars :sheep: :gold: ?
I think it is about 50 New Zealand's for a CIV... :p

Do I get the overflow? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll need some help setting up a ship chain.....I've not done one since civ3 since I didn't know they could be done in civ4.

Also, if Gator could leave notes at the end of his turn log with which units in transit are supposed to go where, that would help.
I think we're going to try to help you develop this. Please see SCT's whipping plan by city. I hope we can lay out a transport plan as well as a battle plan.

Great!!!!!

On turn 200 York will have reached size 4 and have 32 hammers in box. This is the 2 fer cat deal. But if we switch to the 0f/4h, 1f/3h, gold, and rice (=11 hammers per turn [6 turn cats or swords]) the cat will finish in 3 more turns on its own and we could whip a WE.

York has been changed to produce a cat and WE. I completed the production plan for Baghdad, Athens, and Carthage.

Total production planned through turn 210:
18 cats, 21 elephants, 1 chariot, 1 galleon, 2 swords, 3 archers

Next up: shipping schedules

Next up: shipping schedules
I have thinking about how to lay that out. I'm thinking about a spreadsheet with turns across the top and units, listed by the city they are produced in, along the side. Under the cities, the Galleons and their locations can be listed.

The variable we need to figure out is how many units go where? Where we want units to land will determine where the ship chains are laid out and for how long they operate, in case we need to reassign Galleons for other missions, perhaps local transport or change in theater of operation.

I think we want efficiency and flexibility as shipping schedules may change several times as the tactical situation develops.

I must go to a meeting tomorrow and will be home by late afternoon. See you briefly in the morning; well, my morning, and then later.

Payday's not until Thursday... what's the current exchange rate between Civ gold and New Zealand dollars ?

Then Thursday it is - and don't worry about exchange rates just send the money and leif will get any overflow. The US economy can use all the support it can get. Maybe throw in the odd sheep?

There is so much detail to sort through in this complicated and uncertain situation that I didn't have time to examine, and to give useful advice on, everything. The idea would be for each group to concentrate on one of two general areas, post a concensus plan worked out among them (perhaps using some PM's to avoid thread clutter) and then let the other group offer constructive criticism before proceeding with play. May be a bad idea.

I see what you mean. I think there will be more clarity soon. We have used a lot of posts to converge to a common plan and I think we're getting there. We already have a whipping plan and we know how to proceed in Arabia and Persia. I think it's fine if people want to concentrate on some specific issue (Like I have been interested in the top level logistics). On the other hand this shouldn't stop anyone from joining the discussion on other topics. The use of PM's for discussion is probably frowned upon by the admins . The idea is that everything relating to the game should be in the thread for others to read. There has previously been some issues with CDZ and CRC because they had their discussions in other forums. CRC still does this for the obvious reason that many of their team members are not sufficiently skilled in English.

I haven't received any feedback on my idea of 3rd WT so I will try to market it once more. In the picture

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90349/WT4.jpg

is shown the war theaters I have in mind. The idea with the 3rd WT is to minimize land travel. Rather than having our Persian army cover a large area I would like to capture a city in WT3 and use it as a staging point for capturing nearby cities. WT4 will be reserved for the final push when we whip more or less all cities and get a massive amount of units. This will require some coordination with the galleons so that we have enough galleon capacity to move the units to Uppsala and Nidaros.

I think I see what you mean, sorry for being a bit dense.

Not at all. Reading and understanding all the posts is proving to be difficult for all of us.

I have thinking about how to lay that out. I'm thinking about a spreadsheet with turns across the top and units, listed by the city they are produced in, along the side. Under the cities, the Galleons and their locations can be listed.

Sounds like a big task :crazyeye:. One thing that strikes me as important is to factor in the distance from the city producing the unit and the nearest port. Maybe define some ports like this example:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90349/Ports.jpg

The red port would service York, London, Parthian, Timbuktu. Yellow port would service Ironsite, Horse City and Ivoryville. Green port would service Athens, Sparta and Carthage (via the galleon chain). By looking at the whipping plan it should be possible to determine how many units will be flowing into each port. The need for galleons can then be estimated if we know the destination of these units - the further away the more galleons. If you want to make a more detailed plane you would need to look at the travel time to port in order to determine the exact arrival time of each unit. This may not be necessary.

Then Thursday it is - and don't worry about exchange rates just send the money and leif will get any overflow. The US economy can use all the support it can get. Maybe throw in the odd sheep?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

The idea is that everything relating to the game should be in the thread for others to read.
We should try to keep everything in the thread where possible. An odd PM is OK for background work I think. The problem with this is sifting through it all without missing something important. I think the way to overcome this is to occasionally post summaries of where things stand so others can have a look and post if something was forgotten? :hmm:

I haven't received any feedback on my idea of 3rd WT so I will try to market it once more. In the picture is shown the war theaters I have in mind. The idea with the 3rd WT is to minimize land travel. Rather than having our Persian army cover a large area I would like to capture a city in WT3 and use it as a staging point for capturing nearby cities. WT4 will be reserved for the final push when we whip more or less all cities and get a massive amount of units. This will require some coordination with the galleons so that we have enough galleon capacity to move the units to Uppsala and Nidaros.
I think it is a good idea as it also cuts travel time over water and simplifies the logistics of moving units into the theaters. I would like to see more of the terrain in the maps to determine where we might land forces and how they can be coordinated, or reinforced, should the need arise.

The problem with not knowing exactly what is out there is sending too much of something where it isn't needed and then find ourselves short where they are needed. :eek: It wouldn't be too much of a problem, except when you're trying to complete in 25 turns, or less. ;)


Sounds like a big task :crazyeye:. One thing that strikes me as important is to factor in the distance from the city producing the unit and the nearest port. Maybe define some ports like this example:

The red port would service York, London, Parthian, Timbuktu. Yellow port would service Ironsite, Horse City and Ivoryville. Green port would service Athens, Sparta and Carthage (via the galleon chain). By looking at the whipping plan it should be possible to determine how many units will be flowing into each port. The need for galleons can then be estimated if we know the destination of these units - the further away the more galleons. If you want to make a more detailed plane you would need to look at the travel time to port in order to determine the exact arrival time of each unit. This may not be necessary.
It will be a fairly large task and one that will involve the need to be reviewed and critiqued. Your idea of ports of embarkation is exactly what I think we need. Where should Galleons start their routes, where do they merge to transfer units and where do they get delivered. It would be like a train schedule, prioritized for the arrival of units from production centers, and having the Galleons where they are needed on specific turns to get them out to wherever they are going.

Perhaps the first piece of this task is to take SCT's whip data and determine what units will be available where on which turns. I'll work on that this afternoon and evening. Perhaps knowing which ports the units will be in on what turns can help us determine where they should be going?

I guess the question I should ask CP and company is whether there is anything that may help them in battle planning?

Sounds like a big task :crazyeye:. One thing that strikes me as important is to factor in the distance from the city producing the unit and the nearest port. Maybe define some ports like this example:

The red port would service York, London, Parthian, Timbuktu. Yellow port would service Ironsite, Horse City and Ivoryville. Green port would service Athens, Sparta and Carthage (via the galleon chain).

Using your port outline, here is when units will be ready to ship (through at least turn 212):

Red port:
sword (197) cat (199) cat (202)
cat (203) cat (204) sword (204)
cat (204) WE (206) cat (206)
WE (207) cat (207) WE (208)
cat (209) cat (210) WE (210)
WE (212) WE (214) WE (217)
(during the time that Tim's last three WEs are arriving at port, London will be producing additional units)

Yellow Port:
cat (201) cat (201) cat (201)
WE (203) cat (204) WE (205)
WE (208) cat (209) cat (210)
WE (212)

Green Port:
cat (196) sword (196) WE (196)
WE (198) WE (199) sword (201)
sword (201) cat (201) WE (202)
sword (203) sword (203) WE (203)
WE (204) sword (205) WE (206)
WE (206) WE (208) WE (210)
WE (211) archer (211)

Some of Red Port's dates assume a timely building of the road from Tim to London. These figures include units that have already been built on our continent.

I'll let someone else plan the shipping of these units to the AI continent.

Regarding War Theaters: Nothing to argue with in Fred's plan except the uncertainty of the map -- that is, more important than the geographic location of the new WT is the kind of city available for atttack and establishment of the initial foothold. Certainly be nice to establish a Persian WT2 where Fred proposes and another city/foothold/WT3 about where Fred draws it, but the nature of the cities around the AI continent's southern border should primarily determine where we land. Also, if the city east of Arbela, which we are going to investigate immediately, is well defended on a hill, then we may want to avoid it and try to establish a Persian foothold further SE. Should that be the case, then we could be better off consolidating forces in a major way at a WT4 somewhere near the tangent of Fred's WT2 and WT3.

"I guess the question I should ask CP and company is whether there is anything that may help them in battle planning?" Knowing how many units of what type are going to be available where and when will be a big help. Obviously some input on the changing needs of war should be able to influence the nature and place of the forces provided.

SCT's whip table is a great tool. Hope he will update and adjust it periodically as we proceed.

Please refresh my memory on what turn number we are targeting for victory.

"I'll let someone else plan the shipping of these units to the AI continent." Can't do that until we know if the galleons off Persia are going to be available. Given the availability of units, looks like we would have good use for them.

I haven't received any feedback on my idea of 3rd WT so I will try to market it once more. In the picture is shown the war theaters I have in mind. The idea with the 3rd WT is to minimize land travel. Rather than having our Persian army cover a large area I would like to capture a city in WT3 and use it as a staging point for capturing nearby cities. WT4 will be reserved for the final push when we whip more or less all cities and get a massive amount of units. This will require some coordination with the galleons so that we have enough galleon capacity to move the units to Uppsala and Nidaros.

Agree that WT3 should be the target for all units coming from Athens and maybe also from Ironsite. Between turns 201 and 206, we should have 9 galleonloads setting sail. This would be a good time to start attacking on all fronts.

Please refresh my memory on what turn number we are targeting for victory.

CRC's last save was posted on turn 223. The final posted save is not shown until the competition is over, so their victory could have come on any turn after 223. I would say that turn 220 is a very reasonable goal for our victory.

About the Carthage to Athens chain:

1. The second galleon will not be completed for another 3 turns, so the current galleon should sail all the way to Athens area.

2. The galleon produced in Sparta on turn 199 should load the sword from Sparta and then sail toward Carthage. The original galleon should sail back toward Sparta to become the second link in the chain.

3. Units produced in Carthage should move toward the horse tile on foot whenever there is not a galleon ready to pick them up directly from Carthage.

4. To make a transfer between galleons, highlight all three units simultaneously and then click the offload button. No need to figure out which galleon is which. The transfer will be made and the second galleon in the chain can proceed towards Athens.

5. Units cannot transfer between galleons and offload next to Athens on the same turn. So it is optimal to make the transfer at a point 6-10 tiles from the offload point.

Nice work Shannon. :goodjob:

:thanx: Thank you very much.

I think we need to agree on what Gator should do in the next two turns so we can see what the map holds for us. Then we can set priorities and begin scheduling Galleons trips.

I hate to interrupt this love fest but I just can't stand it anymore...

Thanks to Mistfit for the Christmas Avatar.

I just don't want people thinking that I cannot make a more festive avatar :p

You knucklehead

Good luck guys!

And thanks Mistfit for tidying up my avatar a wee bit :goodjob:

I hate to interrupt this love fest but I just can't stand it anymore...



I just don't want people thinking that I cannot make a more festive avatar :p

You knucklehead

Good luck guys!
Oh, alright. :blush: I've amended my sig to make it correct. At my age I can't remember everything... :rolleyes:
nyuk, nyuk, nyuk :smug:

Seen any good Viking avatars around? :deal:

Nice to hear from you again. :wavey:
What on earth have you been up to? :shifty:

Nice work Shannon. :goodjob:

:thanx: Thank you very much.

I think we need to agree on what Gator should do in the next two turns so we can see what the map holds for us. Then we can set priorities and begin scheduling Galleons trips.

I'll try to summarize a 2 turn game plan in the morning so we can get some more map exposed.

My physical therapy sessions has made my neck more sore than I expected or I'd do it tonight.

I think I got everything. Please review, I'll play in the morning.

Current turn: 195 - 425AD 196 - 440AD

TECHS:
Monarchy
HBR ??
depending on gold situation

CITIES:
Bantu: switch back to granary
London: cats (and cats only)
According to Whip Plan nothing whips on T196

Turn 197 Whips
London: cat
Horse City: cat
Sparta: sword (finishes the galleon also)
Carthage: WE
Athens: WE


WORKERS:
Homeland - finish Timbuktu Road (as original planned or thru New City) shortest route available, need stone in New City for possible Gold Wall chop


MILTARY:

P#1014 describes 4 War Theaters

Arabian Theater (WT#1)
(P#974) We should aim to take Najran (5-6 turns time) and finally Mecca in about 9 turns time. We move our forces in Arabia along the road to Mecca leaving a minimal garrison in Baghdad. move WE and axe onto road to await bombard cat and 8/13 sword. Our accuracy cat meets up with our scouting axe/WE and moves to Mecca to start bombarding. Shannon Raider moves to Baghdad to drop worker and pick the whipped catapult and starts moving along northern coastline to Najran. MP Floatinglab gets existing cat/worker/sword from London and moves to Najran about 1.5 turns behind Shannon Raider. 3 promoted units (at a guess) from existing Baghdad army assist our galleon armies at Najran and the healthiest of the surviving units travel by galleon to Mecca to attack at the same time as our marching army that has come from Baghdad. We will have 4 cats in this force, 2 with CR2 promotions.
(P#977) Leave only axe in defense of Baghdad, on return Shannon's Raider pick up 3 sword to Najran. Gator Buggy heads back towards Baghdad to assist troop moves since no Eastern Ocean Ship Chaining. MP Floatinglab needs to drop off worker in or near Bagdad; Gator Buggy may need to explore a bit first

Persian Theater (WT#2)
Promo chariot to medic, put with sword to speed healing.
(P#972) At Arbela: Agree that we should take a look at the Persian city east of Arbela before deciding where to attack Persia. If we abandon the eastern chain concept then we will need a city that we can capture, be able to defend, and that will provide us with additional units, as we will only have nine. Unload the cat onto the WE. Next turn, load the wounded sword, along with the axe and cat now on the unroaded forest onto the Thunder Rider. This will give us a foot party of WE, cat, worker, and chariot. The worker can be risked as a scout before moving other units. The axe and the cat on the Thunder Rider can join up in two turns on the road just east of the double silks, and that will make the party pretty safe. Fred's Ferry can continue SE next turn, and after the foot party moves on the following turn and leif's longboat explores further SE of Gordium (towards WT #3), make a decision where we want to attack based on what is revealed. If not at that point, then certainly one turn later.

Thunder Rider should not move SE too quickly, as the large city east of Arbela may be heavily defended on a hill. If so, we'll need to withdraw troops and will have hopefully found a city to the SE that we can ship them to, and the galleon will be needed for that.

Persian/Viking Theater (WT#3)
Use Cactus Breeze (can rrau's raft reach it to xfer troop?) and Leif's Longship to quickly explore southern side of Persian territory, eventually returning both towards our West Coast production core.

I'm only using 1 galleon (either rrau's raft or Cactus Breeze) to scout south of Uppsala. I just didn't state it properly. Leif's Longship is scouting from the other end.

Viking Theater (WT #4)
Have rrau's raft or Cactus Breeze (depending on if troops were transfered) sail south of Uppsala to see what's just west of the city before deciding whether to drop troops on road just NW of city. If there's a city of value not on a hill, then we might want to put off Uppsala'a capture as well as Nidaros's for essentially the same reasons. Cactus Breeze should be ahead so landing area may already be known, see if I can chain to Cactus Breeze.

(P#989) I still like the idea of opening up a 3rd war theater and I like CP's suggestion of looking for a city SW of Uppsala - we could send rrau's raft down there. If we are lucky we might even find a city we can capture. Cactus Breeze could aid in moving forces to this WT. I think Athens and Carthage could easily supply this WT with troops and in an economical way when it comes to galleon moves.

Outside Carthage 3 units are already loaded in a galleon, and the 3 others are the sword we whip in Sparta (with overflow finishing the galleon) the sword outside Carthage and the WE we will soon whip. It should be possible to move these 6 units to Athens quite quick and if it turns out that there is no southern passage they could still be of use to the 3rd war theater we can start SW of Uppsala.


Homeland:
Setup a Carthage to Athens 2 galleon ship chain using the existing galleon at Carthage and the soon to be completed galleon from Sparta. (P#983 map & details #1019)

Use sword and cats from Timb as escort for settler and worker as road is being built. Chariot is now staying so it can be used also. Send York warrior towards Athens.

Known barbs: archer in forest north of Parthian / axe in jungle NE of Carthage

Known enemies: group of 4 Persian units (2 axe, 2 archers) last seen by Najran

Looks good -- few minor additions . . .

Arabian theater: move WE and axe onto road to await bombard cat and 8/13 sword; MP Floatinglab needs to drop off worker in or near Bagdad; Gator Buggy may need to explore a bit first;

"Use Cactus Breeze (can rrau's raft reach it to xfer troop?) eventually returning towards our West Coast production core" We don't need both to explore. One should probably return to Athens as needed to pick up units. When will some be available, leif?

CITIES:
Bantu: switch back to granary
According to Whip Plan nothing whips on T196

And switch London to catapult.

Viking Theater (WT #4)
Have rrau's raft sail south of Uppsala to see what's just west of the city before deciding whether to drop troops on road just NW of city. If there's a city of value not on a hill, then we might want to put off Uppsala'a capture as well as Nidaros's for essentially the same reasons. Cactus Breeze should be ahead so landing area may already be known, see if I can chain to Cactus Breeze.

(P#989) I still like the idea of opening up a 3rd war theater and I like CP's suggestion of looking for a city SW of Uppsala - we could send rrau's raft down there. If we are lucky we might even find a city we can capture. Cactus Breeze could aid in moving forces to this WT. I think Athens and Carthage could easily supply this WT with troops and in an economical way when it comes to galleon moves.


"Use Cactus Breeze (can rrau's raft reach it to xfer troop?) eventually returning towards our West Coast production core" We don't need both to explore. One should probably return to Athens as needed to pick up units. When will some be available, leif?
I think we should transfer the troops from rrau's raft to Cactus Breeze as Cactus Breeze moves south of Uppsala on turn 197. rrau's raft should then return to Athens as units will be available there. SCT's list of availability is below:

London - Red port:
sword (197) cat (199) cat (202)
cat (203) cat (204) sword (204)
cat (204) WE (206) cat (206)
WE (207) cat (207) WE (208)
cat (209) cat (210) WE (210)
WE (212) WE (214) WE (217)
(during the time that Tim's last three WEs are arriving at port, London will be producing additional units)

Ironsite - Yellow Port:
cat (201) cat (201) cat (201)
WE (203) cat (204) WE (205)
WE (208) cat (209) cat (210)
WE (212)
Yellow won't show. :blush:

Athens - Green Port:
cat (196) sword (196) WE (196) - ship immediately on rrau's raft!
WE (198) WE (199) sword (201)
sword (201) cat (201) WE (202)
sword (203) sword (203) WE (203)
WE (204) sword (205) WE (206)
WE (206) WE (208) WE (210)
WE (211) archer (211)

Once we have reconned the area south and west of Uppsala, we can make final decisions regarding the exact locations for galleon chains to meet the needs of troops deployments. It is important for Gator to move the Galleons, except Thunder Rider (that will also sail south and east, if a passage exists, once it finishes moving those troops that are near where Arbela was), back towards our west coast as soon as they have completed their missions. We can set things up from there. Please note that units will also be available in the Ironsite area starting on turn 201 (5 turns from now) and the London area starting on turn 203 (6 turns away).

EDIT: See below for corrected pic and file.

I wasn't sure if everyone has Excel or an Excel viewer, but I put Shannon's Whip Plan into order by turn. Here is a screen shot of it and the excel file. If a unit finishes from its own production I did not list it, only the whips.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/41442/Xteam_SG06whip.jpg


Here is the Excel file. You need to change the extension from .txt to .xls before you try to use it. It so small I didn't zip it but if you have trouble opening it let me know.

I wasn't sure if everyone has Excel or an Excel viewer, but I put Shannon's Whip Plan into order by turn. Here is a screen shot of it and the excel file. If a unit finishes from its own production I did not list it, only the whips.

Only 30 whips? I'm sure I was a crueler taskmaster than that. Ah, you forgot Parthian.

Appreciate the time and effort to analyze and organize all of the above.

Another minor note: "It is important for Gator to move the Galleons, except Thunder Rider (that will also sail south and east, if a passage exists, once it finishes moving those troops that are near where Arbela was), back towards our west coast as soon as they have completed their missions." Thunder Rider should not move SE too quickly, as the large city east of Arbela may be heavily defended on a hill. If so, we'll need to withdraw troops and will have hopefully found a city to the SE that we can ship them to, and the galleon will be needed for that.

Updated Whip Plan


http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/41442/Xteam_SG06whip2.jpg

New file, same deal on the name. Change the .txt to .xls before using. (wrong file - see next post for correct one).

New file, same deal on the name. Change the .txt to .xls before using.

Where's leif at? :confused: It is almost 1am and 3 of the 4 EST players are posting. :lol:

Where's leif at? :confused: It is almost 1am and 3 of the 4 EST players are posting. :lol:
Leif was in the arms of Morpheus!! ;)

:sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

The plan looks good :goodjob:. Must have been a big task compiling all the information.

I only have one comment: I don't think we should consider landing troops in WT4 right now - there will be plenty coming later when the whipping gets more intense. Rather focus on starting up WT3 and perhaps supporting our Persian forces. First step would be to get the 3 units in rraus's raft to WT3 maybe by galleon chaining with Cactus Breeze as suggested by leif. Hopefully we can find a suitable (large with weak defense :D) city to capture down there. Maybe not right away, but soon there will be 6 units arriving from Carthage via Athens.

Have any of you checked the progress charts lately? Judging from the score chart Murky Waters are doing a lot better than the rest of the teams and we have a small edge compared to CRC, OSS, Smurkz and Gypsy Kings who are all almost equal. I bet that Lexad is sweating a lot over the MW progress and he's probably worried about us too. Looks like a very exciting finish even though I fear that it will be very difficult to get the gold laurels. My guess is that very few turns will separate the silver laurel and the 6th place

I only have one comment: I don't think we should consider landing troops in WT4 right now - there will be plenty coming later when the whipping gets more intense. Rather focus on starting up WT3 and perhaps supporting our Persian forces. First step would be to get the 3 units in rraus's raft to WT3 maybe by galleon chaining with Cactus Breeze as suggested by leif. Hopefully we can find a suitable (large with weak defense :D) city to capture down there. Maybe not right away, but soon there will be 6 units arriving from Carthage via Athens.
I agree with starting up WT3 before WT4.

Further, I was looking at the whip schedule this morning and found that the two Galleons that will go from Carthage to Athens will be underutilized. I am thinking that we should consider using two ports instead of three, freeing up a Galleon to use in a chain. This may allow us more flexibility in sending troops to different theaters as needed.

Those ports would be Athens and London area. In this scheme (which I can map later if we think it is a good idea), units produced north of a line drawn through Ironsite, Horse City to Timbuktu would travel to London. Units produced south of that line; in Ivoryville can proceed to Sparta and those from Bantu can go through Carthage.

Once Gator's turn is complete and we have more map info and we decide what the priorities for where we want troops to go, we should be better equipped to lay this out.

Thanks to all for all the work. I think we're getting there. :rockon:
Good luck Gator!! :thumbsup:

Further, I was looking at the whip schedule this morning and found that the two Galleons that will go from Carthage to Athens will be underutilized. I am thinking that we should consider using two ports instead of three, freeing up a Galleon to use in a chain. This may allow us more flexibility in sending troops to different theaters as needed.

The two galleons serving Carthage and Sparta might not always be full, but they should be in pretty constant motion. And both cities can continue to produce useful units beyond the turns I've listed.

Those ports would be Athens and London area. In this scheme (which I can map later if we think it is a good idea), units produced north of a line drawn through Ironsite, Horse City to Timbuktu would travel to London. Units produced south of that line; in Ivoryville can proceed to Sparta and those from Bantu can go through Carthage.

The crossing from London to Vikingland would not benefit from a chain, as units use up their movement points in loading, and the crossing here only takes 2 turns max. A chain from London to Persia would be passing by Ironsite anyway. If Ivoryville's units aren't shipped through Ironsite, they should be shipped directly from Athens, meaning they would need to clear out the barb city first.

The crossing from London to Vikingland would not benefit from a chain, as units use up their movement points in loading, and the crossing here only takes 2 turns max. A chain from London to Persia would be passing by Ironsite anyway. If Ivoryville's units aren't shipped through Ironsite, they should be shipped directly from Athens, meaning they would need to clear out the barb city first.
While this is true, as we do not know exactly what we're facing, we may need to reinforce somewhere in southern Arabia as it connects to Persia. I am trying to think of ways that we could quicklt move units to anywhere on the new continent, from our western shores, using the 10 Galleons (this included the two that will run from Carthage to Athens) we will have at our disposal. Looking at the whipping schedule, it seems like we could almost do the Carthage to Athens run with one Galleon. It would take too long to move one of the Galleons to our west coast, so the other way to save is to use two ports instead of three?

I will be very interested to see what comes out of our trip to the area southwest of Uppsala and southern Persia. If there is no passage and we have to move those Galleons in our eastern ocean around the north of Arabia to get to our west coast, I think there will be significant delays in getting Galleon chains set up.

I'm playing now. One update to my plan: I had the wrong date & turn (s/b T196 - 440AD). Nothing else changes.

T196 – 440AD

Resumed game – turned research back on to Monarchy in 3.

Bantu to granary
London to cat
Mm Timb for food

Whip plan – confirmed next turn whip cities producing whip unit

Made recommended military moves in Arabia and Western Persia, scouted with galleon, homeland workers on road detail.

IBT – quiet
Timb: cat = WE
Ivoryville: cat = WE

Salad completes the Pyramids, guess where?? Yep - - Mecca

T197 – 455AD

A worker moves reveals a Barb sword and axe together north of stone near the site of New City. Is this the same Barb Axe from the last time I played this game that messed up settling Gold City? Okay this temporarily messes up the Timbuktu Road, but the settler can safely reach New City site as long as another barb doesn’t pop during the IBT. Since we have the Great Wall now we can found the city without any defense.

I find the Persian city of Tarsus on the peninsula east of Gordium. It does look like the southern passage is available. Ragnar has a trieme next to Tarsus.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2887/xteamsgv06024yk2.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xteamsgv06024yk2.jpg)

Cycled cities, whipped per plan:
London (1 pop) cat
Horse City (1 pop) cat
Sparta (2 pop) sword , overflow will finish galleon the following turn
Carthage (2 pop) WE
Athens (2 pop) we have an overflow here
Baghdad came out of revolt and earned hammers this turn (2 pop) cat

IBT – quiet again
London: cat = cat
Horse City: cat = cat
Sparta: sword = overflow will finish galleon next turn
Carthage: WE = WE
Athens: WE = 66 hammer overflow here set to sword OFF PLAN – NO WHIP
Baghdad: cat = cat (overflow hammers and worker is chopping)

Salad adopts Police State

T198 – 470AD

Nottingham founded: cat (stone not hooked up yet) Barb sword and axe visible again – away from road workers

I find Persian cities of Pasargadae

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7788/xteamsgv06025ea4.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xteamsgv06025ea4.jpg)

And Ecbatana

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7913/xteamsgv06027hs7.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xteamsgv06027hs7.jpg)

Also find Viking city of Birka (could be last Viking city, they may be getting credit for the territory they % share with Arabia around Haithabu)

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/7/xteamsgv06026yt4.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xteamsgv06026yt4.jpg)

Cycle cities per Whip Plan:
Baghdad – did last turn
Ivoryville: WE – due in 1 without whip (a forest chop completed)
Parthian: cat (1 pop)
Timbuktu: WE (2 pop)
None scheduled for turn 199

This was a good place to stop. Monarchy completes next turn. I have troops on the edge of Najran as planned. Cat, axe and WE are headed to Mecca. Pasargadae is size 11 and lightly defended. I just put the chariot into Thunder Rider this turn because the sword was not healing. Figured we could start on the defense with the cats while he healed. Cactus Breeze has not unloaded we may want to return it to the east and hit Uppsalla and go ahead and open up all three WT. Spears are the toughest units Persia has, they appear to have no horses. I started the units at Carthage by coastal land tiles until the new Spartan galleon can grab them.

Known barbs: archer in forest north of Parthian, axe in jungle NE of Carthage, and the sword/axe tandem by Nottingham.

Southern Persian passage does exist.
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1143/xteamsgv06028im0.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=xteamsgv06028im0.jpg)

We should update the whip schedule before rrau plays.

The log file

Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Saladin's Archer (6.60)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Combat Odds: 14.9%
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Plot Defense: +5%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Defense: +125%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Combat: +10%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer has defeated Churchill's Axeman!
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Catapult (5.00) vs Saladin's Archer (4.20)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Combat Odds: 64.2%
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Plot Defense: +5%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Catapult is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer has defeated Churchill's Catapult!
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman (6.00) vs Saladin's Archer (2.39)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Combat Odds: 99.7%
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Plot Defense: +5%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 30 (58/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 30 (28/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 30 (0/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman has defeated Saladin's Archer!
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman (6.00) vs Saladin's Archer (2.26)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Combat Odds: 99.8%
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Plot Defense: +5%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 27 (31/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 27 (4/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman has defeated Saladin's Archer!
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman (6.00) vs Saladin's Archer (1.76)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Combat Odds: 99.9%
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Plot Defense: +5%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Defense: +125%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Attack: -55%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Combat: +10%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 24 (4/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Archer is hit for 24 (0/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman has defeated Saladin's Archer!
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman (6.00) vs Saladin's Chariot (3.23)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Combat Odds: 97.4%
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Chariot is hit for 26 (63/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Chariot is hit for 26 (37/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Chariot is hit for 26 (11/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Chariot is hit for 26 (0/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Swordsman has defeated Saladin's Chariot!
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Chariot (4.40) vs Saladin's Warrior (3.23)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Combat Odds: 87.3%
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Plot Defense: +5%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Fortify: +10%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (City Defense: +25%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: (Amphibious Attack: +50%)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Warrior is hit for 22 (63/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Chariot is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Warrior is hit for 22 (41/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Warrior is hit for 22 (19/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Saladin's Warrior is hit for 22 (0/100HP)
Turn 192, 380 AD: Churchill's Chariot has defeated Saladin's Warrior!
Turn 192, 380 AD: You have captured Baghdad!!!
Turn 192, 380 AD: You have discovered Archery!
Turn 192, 380 AD: The Hanging Gardens has been built in a far away land!

Turn 193, 395 AD: You have declared war on Ragnar!

Turn 194, 410 AD: You have declared war on Cyrus!
Turn 194, 410 AD: You have trained a Swordsman in Athens. Work has now begun on a Catapult.

Turn 195, 425 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Parthian!
Turn 195, 425 AD: You have trained a Swordsman in Timbuktu. Work has now begun on a Catapult.
Turn 195, 425 AD: Nichola Tesla (Great Engineer) has been born in a far away land!
Turn 195, 425 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman (6.00) vs Churchill's War Elephant (9.60)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Combat Odds: 4.4%
Turn 195, 425 AD: (Barbarian Combat: +5%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (City Attack: -10%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: (City Barbarian Defense: +25%)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 25 (75/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 25 (50/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 15 (85/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 25 (25/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 15 (70/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's War Elephant is hit for 15 (55/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Barbarian's Swordsman is hit for 25 (0/100HP)
Turn 195, 425 AD: Churchill's War Elephant has defeated Barbarian's Swordsman!
Turn 195, 425 AD: You have circumnavigated the Globe! Your ships receive a +1 Movement bonus!

Turn 196, 440 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Arbela to 15%!
Turn 196, 440 AD: Churchill's Swordsman (6.00) vs Cyrus's Archer (3.15)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Combat Odds: 98.5%
Turn 196, 440 AD: (Plot Defense: +15%)
Turn 196, 440 AD: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 196, 440 AD: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 196, 440 AD: (City Attack: -85%)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Cyrus's Archer is hit for 27 (73/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Cyrus's Archer is hit for 27 (46/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 14 (72/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 14 (58/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Churchill's Swordsman is hit for 14 (44/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Cyrus's Archer is hit for 27 (19/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Cyrus's Archer is hit for 27 (0/100HP)
Turn 196, 440 AD: Churchill's Swordsman has defeated Cyrus's Archer!
Turn 196, 440 AD: Your Swordsman has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 196, 440 AD: You have captured a Worker
Turn 196, 440 AD: You have captured Arbela!!!
Turn 196, 440 AD: You have destroyed the city of Arbela!!!
Turn 196, 440 AD: Saladin has completed The Pyramids!

Turn 197, 455 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 44 ? for Ivoryville.
Turn 197, 455 AD: You have trained a Swordsman in Sparta. Work has now begun on a Galleon.
Turn 197, 455 AD: Saladin adopts Police State!

Turn 198, 470 AD: Nottingham has been founded.


Save is uploaded.

Good job Gator :goodjob:

Pasagardae is just what we want, massive city with chop potential. As Gator said, it is fairly lightly defended (but with a good defense combo of spear/axe/archer) if they don't whip or reinforce heavily and could be ours in 3-4 turns?

Ecbatana has only a spear in it and our elephant/sword/cat team might be able to open up WT3 right away!

Also, I would add that crossbows would provide great value against Persian armies, they seem to have lots of metal/melee units.

Looking good :goodjob:.

We should have a good chance of capturing Pasargardea if it's not reinforced. I think we need around 3 turns to bomb down defenses. Maybe move WE and cat into the forest next to the worker.

Tempting to take Ecbatana while it's not well defended.

There are 3 forest chops happening. One by Athens started several turns ago should be nearing completion soon. A 2 worker chop to Ivoryville and the Baghdad chop.

Timbuktu Road workers have roaded some tiles not originally on the construction plan, but I did this without any escorts for them. Now that Nottingham is founded and Timb is sending swords and cat to the port we can get the road finished properly.

Nice work Gator!! :goodjob:

:coffee: For the record, Gator being "UP" was posted in post number 769. This is post 1047? It must be a record - 278 posts before a turn set is completed!! :high5: And we're all still working hard together! :cheers: :rockon:

Roster:
rrau - UP
Jimmy Thunder - On Deck
Cactus Pete
Leif
ShannonCT
Frederiksberg
Gator - just played!! :clap:

Nice call Fred! Looks to me like WT3 is the soft underbelly. It seems fairly centrally located and should provide a good jumping off point for taking cities in the area.

I am a bit concerned about getting around south of Ebactana back to our western ocean.

After some time with our map, I would like to propose a system for our Galleon chains. First off, and not pictured, is the two Galleon chain we are running from Carthage to Athens.

Pictured is a 5 Galleon chain that runs London to Ironsite, Ironsite to south of Uppsala,, where Galleons from both Ironsite and Athens can come together, then from Uppsala along the south coast and finally a Galleons to deliver troops to the Birka, Haithabu, Ebactana area. The primary paths are in Red and the optional paths are in Cyan.
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k27/civgeek/CIVSGOTM06/470AD_Galleon_Chains_Cut1.jpg

If this outline looks good, then I will begin to do some detail work on timing to get it set up and units transport schedule based upon the whip schedule. I think we will also have to leave at least one, and perhaps two, Galleons in the area between Ebactana and Tarsus as a quick way to ship troops around that bay. That would leave us one, or two, Galleons that could work the Damascus to Medina area. Once we have a scheme for taking cities, we can play around with the where those Galleon would best fit our needs.

The question now is where do we need units to go and does this scheme fit with that plan? Also, does it provide us enough flexibility?

OK, got it, but haven't looked at it yet. I went to bed early last night due to no sleep the night before. I decided Civving on no sleep was a bad idea. I'll take a look tonight after work.

GOTM server is down according to AlanH so you may not be able to get the save right now.

I got it in time though :).

I have a couple of suggestions:


MM Sparta to work cow+fish (instead of horse)
Move warrior in London to Athens and move warrior north of York to London.
The 3 workers NW of the new city should build a road first.
Improve the wine near Parthian with 3 workers
7 workers chop gold. Switch build in new city to walls. Remember that the new city may need to work the forest to the east in order to get the hammers from the chop.


We haven't discussed what to do with Najran. My inclination is to raze since it's very far from other cities and we can only whip 1 pop two times there (e.g. two archers). One archer may need to stay and guard so in reality we would be paying a lot of maintenance in return for one archer that is off-side.

GOTM server is down according to AlanH so you may not be able to get the save right now.

I got it in time though :).


I can attach the file for now.

If one of you has a chance could you explain the chopping for gold or give me a link to somewhere that explains it.. please use small words as I am a bit challenged ;)

I am about 3/4 the way through reading your game.. you guys have done a fantastic job of pushing the limits in this game!! keep it up..

BTW.. if Alan reads this.. I am a dedicated lurker of the XTeam (and hello :) )

If one of you has a chance could you explain the chopping for gold or give me a link to somewhere that explains it.. please use small words as I am a bit challenged ;)
Although I am probably more challenged than you are, let me see if I can get this right. :hmm:

It only works with with the Protective leader trait as that provides double production speed for Walls. In addition, you need to have Stone hooked up as Walls production speed is doubled by Stone. When you chop a forest, the return of hammers is modified by both the Stone and the trait and any excess overflow becomes Gold. It is also possible to multiply the effect by pop-rushing the wall on the turn of the completion of the chops. The more overflow, the more Gold. That is the basic principle. I thought ShannonCT had posted a link earlier in the thread?

I'm sure either ShannonCT or Frederiksberg can provide more detail than I. :blush:
EDIT2 - Went back and found the article that explains it for you. You can find it HERE. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=218272)

EDIT - OH, and :wavey: welcome back!! :D

he likely did but weeding it out of 1050 posts is a bit above my patience level.. thanks for that

he likely did but weeding it out of 1050 posts is a bit above my patience level.. thanks for that
Nah, I found it for you. It is in the Hammer Overflow Article of the War Academy. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=218272)
Good article btw, just reread it. :D

OK, Tenative plan so far:

Send stack SW of Parsagarde to Forest Hill W of city and begin bombarding while troops healing. What about unloading the troops to heal while the galleon returns for more troops or are they too vulnerable in the open?

Move the stack SW of Najran to the farm W of the city and unload the WE and 2 cats directly there from Shannon's Raider. Bombard the city and capture/raze it. Send healthy troops on to Mecca.

Unload MP's Floating Lab in Baghdad and join the 2We (at least I think one WE is on it's way to join the others) and axe and cat at Mecca. Bombard and capture when troops from Mecca arrive unless it looks like I can safely do it sooner.

Question on whips: It's not on the schedule, but could whip a cat in London for 2 pop and a Cat in York for 1 pop and the pop should grow back next turn (2 turns from growth now and should take less food to grow after whipping).....Or is that too aggressive of whipping?

Send stack SW of Parsagarde to Forest Hill W of city and begin bombarding while troops healing. What about unloading the troops to heal while the galleon returns for more troops or are they too vulnerable in the open?

Sounds good. Just don't separate the sword and the medic. Note that the WE and the cat have movement points left and can be moved towards the hill now.

Move the stack SW of Najran to the farm W of the city and unload the WE and 2 cats directly there from Shannon's Raider. Bombard the city and capture/raze it. Send healthy troops on to Mecca.

Unload MP's Floating Lab in Baghdad and join the 2We (at least I think one WE is on it's way to join the others) and axe and cat at Mecca. Bombard and capture when troops from Mecca arrive unless it looks like I can safely do it sooner.

I think it's better to move the 3 swords form the SW stack directly to Mecca leaving only the medic chariot and one sword to attack Najran. We don't want to end up with a lot of units near Najran that we have no transportation for. The Axe, WE, cat stack is obviously also going to Mecca and so is the trailing WE coming out of Baghdad. Unload the WE and cat from Shannons Raider now (T198) so that we can start bombing next turn. MP's Floating Lab can move next to the grassland hill tile north of Baghdad and unload the worker (T199) and then proceed to Najran next turn (T200) where it unloads. We should then have 7 units outside Najran: 1 WE, 2 swords, 1 chariot, 3 cats. Two turns of bombing should have reduced defenses to 7.5% (remember to promote the 5/2 cat to barrage and accuracy) so our units should have no difficulty razing the city in T201. Place our two galleons on the crab tile north of the city (very important) so that they can reach Mecca in two turns when they are reloaded. Bring the medic on the galleons to speed the healing. These units should arrive at Mecca T203 which means that Mecca's cultural defense should be down in T204 with the extra bombing. Final attack on Mecca would then be either T204 or T205 if we want the bombarding cats to be able to participate.

Question on whips: It's not on the schedule, but could whip a cat in London for 2 pop and a Cat in York for 1 pop and the pop should grow back next turn (2 turns from growth now and should take less food to grow after whipping).....Or is that too aggressive of whipping?

In principle I don't see any harm in whipping the cat in York now, but since we don't have any galleons available for transport there is no point in whipping now. In London whipping now would be bad because we haven't put any hammers into the cat yet. Whipping a unit with no hammers invested yet causes a penalty on the hammer yield (30 instead of 45 I think). This is very important! Never whip a unit before putting some hammers into it!

I suggest you unload the Cactus Breeze next turn on the plains outside Ecbatana. If the city is not reinforced our sword should have good odds against the lone spear.

What are you plans for managing our cities and getting units to the battlefield? I made some suggestions here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6439267&postcount=1050) and I expect leif to come up with more suggestions for the use of our galleons.

What are you plans for managing our cities and getting units to the battlefield? I made some suggestions here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6439267&postcount=1050) and I expect leif to come up with more suggestions for the use of our galleons.
I agree that we should raze Najran.

I have been waiting a bit because any transportation plan ought to support the battle plan, units should be delivered to where we think they will be needed.

I kind of like the idea of taking Ebactana soonest and then going after Haithabu and Birka, using them as a base, and then fanning out from there, either via Galleon or on roads. WT4, the Vikings, can then be managed from our west coast.

I think we need to discuss how we want to take down these cites, and any others that may pop up, as we walk across this continent. Also, how we can give our units a ride to speed things up.

We haven't talked about turn set length. How about having a break after T201 when Najran has been captured (razed) and then 3-4 more turns to allow for the capture of Mecca.

Don't forget that when we land near (and/or with the capture of) Ebactana we may see the Vikings put those horse archers into action. This is an At-War game. If that happens we need to be ready to hit WT#4 quickly.

Shorter turn sets are probably more beneficial for the next few turns, as we uncover more cities and finalize our strategy. Then I think we can go back to a more normal play style (i.e. not posting every turn or 2).

I took a stab at updating the whip schedule. Athens was ahead of schedule because of a 66 hammer overflow, so it is set to a sword which does not need to be whipped, then back to WE just 1 turn ahead of prior schedule. Ivoryville received a forest chop which put it ahead also; it was set to whip 2 WEs in a row then go to a slower whip pattern, so since the first WE was not whipped we should still be able to do the 2 whipped WEs in a row. Everything else stays the same. Here is the schedule for the next 4 turns, after that there are a few chops that came into play.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/41442/Xteam_SG06whip198.jpg

Unless Najran hits size 5 before we attack raze it, we'd be able to whip 1 unit if we capture it with 4 pop but with no forest to chop it is pretty useless (no lux or resources to be gained). The 2 workers have fled probably back towards Mecca area. I'm all for razing it and moving on.

I think it's better to move the 3 swords form the SW stack directly to Mecca leaving only the medic chariot and one sword to attack Najran. We don't want to end up with a lot of units near Najran that we have no transportation for.

Don't forget that Gator Buggy is up there and headed back towards narjan to assist with moving troops to Mecca after the battle so you could take a few of the swords or all 3.


Originally Posted by rrau
Send stack SW of Parsagarde to Forest Hill W of city and begin bombarding while troops healing. What about unloading the troops to heal while the galleon returns for more troops or are they too vulnerable in the open?

Sounds good. Just don't separate the sword and the medic. Note that the WE and the cat have movement points left and can be moved towards the hill now.

But moving the sword prevents him from healing, that is why he is still at 2.? Wouldn't it be better just to let them sit still on Thunder Rider for a turn or 2?

Don't forget that when we land near (and/or with the capture of) Ebactana we may see the Vikings put those horse archers into action. This is an At-War game. If that happens we need to be ready to hit WT#4 quickly.

We shouldn't capture Ecbatana unless we think we can hold it. We attack with the sword and if he fails with the cat so that the undamaged WE can enter the captured city. It will require a lot of HA's to retake it.


Don't forget that Gator Buggy is up there and headed back towards narjan to assist with moving troops to Mecca after the battle so you could take a few of the swords or all 3.

Excellent! This means that we can let Shannon's Raider return to the red port (London) where it's badly needed for troop transfer. We can then use MP's Floating Lab and the Gator Buggy to move survivors from the Najran battle to Mecca.

But moving the sword prevents him from healing, that is why he is still at 2.? Wouldn't it be better just to let them sit still on Thunder Rider for a turn or 2?

If we unload next turn the Thunder Rider can proceed back to Athens. Only drawback is that the sword and the chariot will be slightly more vulnerable on land. Whether we move first and then heal or heal and then move makes no difference as far as I can see.

Nice to see I wasn't completely forgotten even before I poked my head in here..

and yes.. I still do this.. both sometimes :crazyeye:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6404831&postcount=858

I'm back, but busy, so I've read the thread but I'm going to wait for rrau to post a plan before taking time with the save.

Gator has left us in good shape, and the discussion goes well -- particularly appreciate the updating of the whip schedule.

I agree with JT that archers/crossbows would be useful, certainly south of Arabia. We might want to start including a few in our build/chop/whip (especially in our captured southern cities) and transport planning.

I had stuff to do this weekend, so didn't get much chance to look at it. I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

I had stuff to do this weekend, so didn't get much chance to look at it. I'll take a closer look tomorrow.

Not a problem. Super Bowl game probably kept alot of the USA distracted as well.

Looked things over this morning using Gator's revised whip schedule.

For Galleon use, I recommend that:
For the Carthage run - Buttkick's Barge and the new Galleon that completes in Sparta next turn.

For support of the Mecca operation, Gator's Buggy and MP's Floating Lab be sent to Najran (after MP's drops off worker at Baghdad)

For support of the Galleon chain:
Once Shannon's Raiders deliver its load of troops to Najran, it should head back for London and will be available to begin the chain on Turn 203.

Fred's Ferry leaves the west coast of Persia headed south and east for the area south and west of Uppsala to be the last Galleon in the chain delivering troops to the Ecbatana/Birka/Haithabu area. Expected ready time is Turn 203.

Leif's Longship should head for Ironsite, where it will become the first Galleon in the chain Ironsite to Uppsala. Expected arrival time is Turn 203.

Cactus Breeze delivers its troops to Ecbatana and proceed to SE of Upsala to meet rrau's raft and continues chaining units until the other Galleons arrive. Cactus Breeze can serve as the second Galleon in the chain, from Uppsala west to Fred's Ferry.

rrau's raft, once loaded, meets up with Cactus Breeze to ship troops.

The chain should work Shannon Raiders to Leif's Longship to Cactus Breeze to Fred's Ferry. rrau's raft will go from Athens to meet Cactus Breeze to Fred's Ferry.

Once Thunder Rider completes its mission with the troops near Gordium/Pasargadae, then it can be moved to the area of Ecbatana to ferry units across to Tarsus or whatever lies south of Pasargadae. If it is not needed there, we can bring it back and add it to the chain or to surge troops to Vikingland.

This chain is designed to deliver troops to the Birka/Haithabu area. If we decide to move them elsewhere, we can make adjustments.

In going over the whip schedule, I found it to be a bit light in Cats. Perhaps we should discuss this?

Troops to be shipped are shown below:
EDIT - Image removed and Spreadsheet updated in a post below.

Plan for galleons sound good!

In going over the whip schedule, I found it to be a bit light in Cats. Perhaps we should discuss this?

Remember that the whip plan is not complete for other cities than Timbuktu and that's part of the reason why WE's are so numerous. How can we determine the best composition of our army? We obviously need cats for bombarding but how many suicide cats do we need? I guess it depends on some unknown factors like the number of cities with many defenders.

Remember that the whip plan is not complete for other cities than Timbuktu and that's part of the reason why WE's are so numerous.
:blush: So we need to make a production schedule. I've asked Gator for some help with that. We'll see what we can come up with. :)
How can we determine the best composition of our army? We obviously need cats for bombarding but how many suicide cats do we need? I guess it depends on some unknown factors like the number of cities with many defenders.
Let's start with what we know.
In Arabia:
Mecca - Size 7 with culture = 60% - defended by three Archers (with 4 to 5 promotions) plus two Chariots. It is on a HILL.
Medina - Size 6 with a culture = 20% - defended by a single Archer with 2 promotions. It is on Grass.
Damascus - Size 5 with culture = 20% - defended by two Archers with 3 promotions each. It is on Desert.
Najran - Size 4 with culture = 20% - defended by two Archers, one with 2 promotions and one with 3 promotions. It is on Desert.
Haithabu - Size 3 without culture atm - defended by a Warrior? It is on Plains.
Kufah - Size 1 without culture atm - defended by two Archers, one with 3 promotions and one with 2 promotions. It is on a HILL.

In Persia:
Pasargadae - Size 11 with culture = 50% - defended by one Axe (with 2 promotions, One Spear with 2 promos and one Archer with no promos. It is on Grass.
Ecbatana - Size 6 with culture = 20% - defended by a single Spear with 2 promos. It is on a HILL.
Tarsus - Size 4 with no culture atm. - defended by one Spear with 1 promo. It is on Plains.
Gordium - Size 2 with no culture atm. - defended by one Axe, one Cat and one Spear, each with 1 promo. It is on Plains.

The Vikings:
Nidaros - Size 13 with 40% culture - defended by one Sword, with 1 promo, one SPear, with one promo, two Cats, both with Barrage 1, and two Horse Archers with CBT1 and Shock. It is on a HILL.
Uppsala - Size 7 with culture = 40% - defended by one Archer, no promo, one Sword, with Cbt1 promo, and one Axe, with Cbt1 and Cbt2 promos. It is on a HILL.
Birka - Size 6 with culture = 50% - defended by one Axe and one Spear, both with Cbt1 and Cbt2 promos. It is on a HILL.

That makes 13 cities thus far. Most need to be bombarded down to 0% culture while others, particularly the capitol, will need some suicide Cats. My guess is that we'll need about 15 to 20 Cats? The Military Advisor says that we currently have 13 Cats, so 10 more may be about right? :hmm:

I've asked Gator for some help with that. We'll see what we can come up with.


I can update the whip schedule to include the regular production as well. I get messed up by the chops because they are unknown due to barbs and enemy troops. Shannon's city analysis had the regular production.

I can update the whip schedule to include the regular production as well. I get messed up by the chops because they are unknown due to barbs and enemy troops. Shannon's city analysis had the regular production.
OK, I can use that. I was unsure if anything had changed as it seemed the whip schedule needed update. The farther in time we go ahead, the harder it is to get right.

I'll get cracking now. :whipped:
:rolleyes:

Let's try again. This time we find that we need to ship:
16 Cats, 8 Swords, 22 WE, 1 Chariot and 2 Archers.

The crunch time will come just before our chain is set up as Galleons from Carthage will unload units that will be available on turns 201 and 203.
There is a Sword next to Sparta that can be loaded onto the new Galleon produced there before it goes to pick up the Sword and WE near Carthage.
I wasn't sure when we want to upgrade Archers to X-Bows, so I left their time in as Archers.

The schedule of units ready for pick up in ports is shown below:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k27/civgeek/CIVSGOTM06/SGOTM06_Port_Arrivals_ver2.jpg

I have attached the updated spreadsheet.

OK, Tenative plan so far:


Attacks:

Send stack SW of Parsagarde to Forest Hill W of city and begin bombarding while troops healing. Start the WE and one cat on it's way now. Unload the sword and medic to heal while the galleon returns for more troops

Stack by Najran: Move 3 swords of the atack SW of Najran to Mecca and one sword and the medic chariot to the farm W of Najran and unload the WE and 2 cats directly there from Shannon's Raider. Bombard the city and capture/raze it. Send healthy troops on to Mecca.

Unload MP's Floating Lab in Baghdad and join the 2We (at least I think one WE is on it's way to join the others) and axe and cat at Mecca. Bombard and capture when troops from Mecca arrive unless it looks like I can safely do it sooner. There's also a suggestion to send it's troops to Najran for help in its capture. We need a decision MP's Floating Lab can move next to the grassland hill tile north of Baghdad and unload the worker (T199) and then proceed to Najran next turn (T200) where it unloads. We should then have 7 units outside Najran: 1 WE, 2 swords, 1 chariot, 3 cats. Two turns of bombing should have reduced defenses to 7.5% (remember to promote the 5/2 cat to barrage and accuracy) so our units should have no difficulty razing the city in T201

unload the Cactus Breeze next turn on the plains outside Ecbatana. Keep or Raze? Then after capturing it, load onto Leif's Longship and send troops to Tarsus to raze it.



Galleon Chaining:

Looked things over this morning using Gator's revised whip schedule.

For Galleon use, I recommend that:
For the Carthage run - Buttkick's Barge and the new Galleon that completes in Sparta next turn.

For support of the Mecca operation, Gator's Buggy and MP's Floating Lab be sent to Najran (after MP's drops off worker at Baghdad)

For support of the Galleon chain:
Once Shannon's Raiders deliver its load of troops to Najran, it should head back for London and will be available to begin the chain on Turn 203.

Fred's Ferry leaves the west coast of Persia headed south and east for the area south and west of Uppsala to be the last Galleon in the chain delivering troops to the Ecbatana/Birka/Haithabu area. Expected ready time is Turn 203.

Leif's Longship should head for Ironsite, where it will become the first Galleon in the chain Ironsite to Uppsala. Expected arrival time is Turn 203. If Leif's transports troops to Tarsus, it will be late arriving

Cactus Breeze delivers its troops to Ecbatana and proceed to SE of Upsala to meet rrau's raft and continues chaining units until the other Galleons arrive. Cactus Breeze can serve as the second Galleon in the chain, from Uppsala west to Fred's Ferry.

rrau's raft, once loaded, meets up with Cactus Breeze to ship troops.

The chain should work Shannon Raiders to Leif's Longship to Cactus Breeze to Fred's Ferry. rrau's raft will go from Athens to meet Cactus Breeze to Fred's Ferry.

Once Thunder Rider completes its mission with the troops near Gordium/Pasargadae, then it can be moved to the area of Ecbatana to ferry units across to Tarsus or whatever lies south of Pasargadae. If it is not needed there, we can bring it back and add it to the chain or to surge troops to Vikingland.

This chain is designed to deliver troops to the Birka/Haithabu area. If we decide to move them elsewhere, we can make adjustments.

Micromanaging:

London: no change
Timbuktu: no change
York: Whip Cat
Ironsite: no change
Ivoryville: no change
Athens: no change
carthage: no change
Sparta: Change from working horse to fish
Bantu: no change
Horsecity2: no change
Goldcity: no change
Parthian: no change
Bhagdad: no change
Nottingham: Change build to walls

Send london warrior to Athens for MP and move other warrior to london

QUESTIONS:

Which port is what cat shipping out of? (2 by Nottingham and 2 by horse city)

Attacks:

Stack by Najran: Move 3 swords of the atack SW of Najran to Mecca and one sword and the medic chariot to the farm W of Najran and unload the WE and 2 cats directly there from Shannon's Raider. Bombard the city and capture/raze it. Send healthy troops on to Mecca.

Unload MP's Floating Lab in Baghdad and join the 2We (at least I think one WE is on it's way to join the others) and axe and cat at Mecca. Bombard and capture when troops from Mecca arrive unless it looks like I can safely do it sooner. There's also a suggestion to send it's troops to Najran for help in its capture. We need a decision
I think that with the stack of Swords under the Chariot and the Cats in Shannon's Raiders, you should have enough to take Najran. If there is agreement on this, then the Galleon plan shifts and Shannon's Raiders should remain in the Najran area while MP's FL drops off its cargo in Baghdad and immediately returns to London to assist with the Galleon chain to WT3. Gator's Buggy. off of the west coast of Mecca, should sail to assist in the movement of troops from Najran to Mecca. I see no value in keeping Najran. The post-Najran to Mecca operation should look like the piccie below (it is a wide photo):
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k27/civgeek/CIVSGOTM06/470AD_Mecca_Attk_Plan.jpg

unload the Cactus Breeze next turn on the plains outside Ecbatana. Keep or Raze? Then after capturing it, load onto Leif's Longship and send troops to Tarsus to raze it.
I think we have to decide on keeping Ecbatana or not. I thought we wanted it? In that case, I don't think we can afford to move troops to Tarsus as we will not be able to defend it.
EDIT - My reasoning in keeping Ecbatana is that it is size 6 and will allow us to whip a couple of units there to assist our effort in WT3.

Should we decide to raze it, then I would highly recommend that we send Leif's Longship back to the east to participate in the Galleon chain and use Fred's Ferry to move any troops between Ecbatana and Tarsus as they become available from the chain, as pictured below (another wide one):
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k27/civgeek/CIVSGOTM06/470AD_Ecbatana_Tarsus.jpg



Micromanaging:

London: no change
Timbuktu: no change
York: Whip Cat
Ironsite: no change
Ivoryville: no change
Athens: no change
carthage: no change
Sparta: Change from working horse to fish
Bantu: no change
Horsecity2: no change
Goldcity: no change
Parthian: no change
Bhagdad: no change
Nottingham: Change build to walls
I recommend that you download the spreadsheet above and check on it. I don't think we should whip the Cat in York yet.

QUESTIONS:

Which port is what cat shipping out of? (2 by Nottingham and 2 by horse city)
The two Cats near Nottingham are scheduled to London while the two near Horse City are scheduled to Ironsite.

In the Galleon chain, because we are a bit short of Galleons, the London Galleon will go to Ironsite and meet a Galleon there. The Ironsite Galleon heads for Uppsala where it meets both the Athens Galleon and the Galleon that will continue west.

Nottingham: Change build to walls

I wouldn't start it until the stone is hooked up. We don't want it to complete. We want to be able to gold chop later if needed. I can't remember if the hammers earned w/o stone will double when stone gets hooked up partway thru the build.

I think that with the stack of Swords under the Chariot and the Cats in Shannon's Raiders, you should have enough to take Najran. If there is agreement on this, then the Galleon plan shifts and Shannon's Raiders should remain in the Najran area while MP's FL drops off its cargo in Baghdad and immediately returns to London to assist with the Galleon chain to WT3. Gator's Buggy. off of the west coast of Mecca, should sail to assist in the movement of troops from Najran to Mecca. I see no value in keeping Najran.


My idea is to minimize damage to our best swords by sending them directly to Mecca. Thus we can send 3 of the swords to Mecca and use only one sword and the chariot for the capture of Najran (and the units from Shannon's Raider and MP's FL). In this scenario we need MP's FL to drop of it's units next to Najran. By sending Shannons Raider back instead of MP's FL we get a galleon returned to London just as fast as if MP's FL returns.

Unload MP's Floating Lab in Baghdad and join the 2We (at least I think one WE is on it's way to join the others) and axe and cat at Mecca. Bombard and capture when troops from Mecca arrive unless it looks like I can safely do it sooner. There's also a suggestion to send it's troops to Najran for help in its capture. We need a decision

My suggestion of saving the best swords for the capture of Mecca means that the units in MP's FL are needed at Najran if we want to be sure that we can take the city even if it builds another archer before we are ready to attack. The forces at Najran would be the units in Shannons Raider and MP's FL + a sword and a medic chariot from the stack SW of Najran. The remaining 3 sword in this stack head directly for Mecca.

I think we have to decide on keeping Ecbatana or not. I thought we wanted it? In that case, I don't think we can afford to move troops to Tarsus as we will not be able to defend it.
EDIT - My reasoning in keeping Ecbatana is that it is size 6 and will allow us to whip a couple of units there to assist our effort in WT3.

If we can afford Ecbatana (and I guess we can) the 4 pop we can whip there will provide us with 3 cats or 2 We's. We could also whip 2 xbows.

My idea is to minimize damage to our best swords by sending them directly to Mecca. Thus we can send 3 of the swords to Mecca and use only one sword and the chariot for the capture of Najran (and the units from Shannon's Raider and MP's FL). In this scenario we need MP's FL to drop of it's units next to Najran. By sending Shannons Raider back instead of MP's FL we get a galleon returned to London just as fast as if MP's FL returns.

My suggestion of saving the best swords for the capture of Mecca means that the units in MP's FL are needed at Najran if we want to be sure that we can take the city even if it builds another archer before we are ready to attack. The forces at Najran would be the units in Shannons Raider and MP's FL + a sword and a medic chariot from the stack SW of Najran. The remaining 3 sword in this stack head directly for Mecca.
I agree. This makes a lot of sense. In addition, the new attacking units may pick up a promo that can help in taking other cities.

In this case, Shannon's Raiders,after unloading, needs to head back to London ASAP while Gator's Buggy and MP's FL doing the transport mission.

After looking at what needs to be shipped, I am anxious to get that Galleon chain working as I think we need units in WT3 to get this game won. There is still some marching and recon that needs to be done and I think we may find another city or two.

If we can afford Ecbatana (and I guess we can) the 4 pop we can whip there will provide us with 3 cats or 2 We's. We could also whip 2 xbows.
To whip units, I think we'll have to afford it. Hope that Mecca doesn't have walls built as we may be able to chop for Gold there or in Kufah, if it ever gets to size 2? :rolleyes:

Fred's troop moves sound good.

"Attacks:

Send stack SW of Parsagarde to Forest Hill W of city and begin bombarding while troops healing. Start the WE and one cat on it's way now. Yes, and, as troops are moved into position around the city on following turns, be aware that Persia has cats and therefore we don't want to concentrate all our troops on one tile. Suggest we keep the WE, cat, and at least two other units on the roaded forest SW of city, with remaining units on unroaded forest tile west of city. Unload the sword and medic to heal while the galleon returns for more troops Cat cannot unload this turn, so suggest the sword stay aboard also (and heal) until next turn, then unload both wounded sword and chariot on roaded desert (and send galleon on its way SE) onto which you move an axe; then, following turn, your very first move can be chariot onto corn to see what's in fog before probably joining axe and sword on roaded forest.

Stack by Najran: Move 3 swords of the atack SW of Najran to Mecca and one sword and the medic chariot to the farm W of Najran and unload the WE and 2 cats directly there from Shannon's Raider. Bombard the city and capture/raze it. Send healthy troops on to Mecca. Maybe too many cooks operating here, but I would suggest a different attack plan for Najran: Unload cat and WE south of city now (promote cat and bombard next turn) and unload other cat next turn (returning galleon east for whole troops). Also next turn, take the two least-promoted swords (less to lose, promotion to gain) and send to Najran along with chariot (they're Persian axes in the area) and send the other two swords toward Mecca. Following turn, bombard a second time (with only the promoted cat, holding the other in reserve if the RNG gods are exceptionally unfavorable) and attack the city. More bombardment will not improve the odds significantly, but will slow us down a turn. Raze city and put two cats and best remaining unit on the Buggy for Mecca, have to play it as it goes with any more than four surviving units, but there is a road to Kufah available to get them back into action.

Unload MP's Floating Lab in Baghdad and join the 2We (at least I think one WE is on it's way to join the others) and axe and cat at Mecca. Bombard and capture when troops from Mecca arrive unless it looks like I can safely do it sooner. There's also a suggestion to send it's troops to Najran for help in its capture. We need a decision
Quote:
MP's Floating Lab can move next to the grassland hill tile north of Baghdad and unload the worker (T199) and then proceed to Najran next turn (T200) where it unloads. We should then have 7 units outside Najran: 1 WE, 2 swords, 1 chariot, 3 cats. Two turns of bombing should have reduced defenses to 7.5% (remember to promote the 5/2 cat to barrage and accuracy) so our units should have no difficulty razing the city in T201 Obviously, I'm arguing against the need for seven units and three turns to take Najran, but we can keep open that option by tranporting the units on MP"s FL to Najran, after unloading the worker. If Najran does not build another defender, then a surviving unit can be added to the load and they can be sailed on to Mecca, getting there in five turns.

unload the Cactus Breeze next turn on the plains outside Ecbatana. Yes. Keep or Raze? Yes, keep, like Fred said with the WE whole to defend.Then after capturing it, load onto Leif's Longship and send troops to Tarsus to raze it." More likely that Fred's galleon will be taking tropps to Tarsus; leif's should probably head east.

" I can't remember if the hammers earned w/o stone will double when stone gets hooked up partway thru the build." Hammers earned without stone do not double when stone is hooked up.

Economy looks in good shape to me, but I don't have a good feel for how the whipping will affect it. My guess is that we could go from Monarchy to HBR, which would give us the option for some better mobile units that might come in handy several turns down the road, especially if the AI sends out settler parties or comes at us with cats.

leif, how quickly do we need additonal transport out of York and London?).
We can delay it until turn 204. There is a Cat waiting there now and another due on turn 201 produced in London. It is 3 - 4 turns to move them to Ironsite for pickup. Ironsite will have two Cats arriving from Ivoryville and Horse City on turn 201.

The initial push will be needed to move troops out of Athens as Buttkick's Barge arrives full in 2 turns and then the new Galleon will pick up another full load from Carthage and Sparta. Plus Athens is a primary production center.

The most important thing to watch is the mix of units as most of the Cat production goes to London or Ironsite. A lot of Swords and Elephants will come from Carthage and Athens.

I'm still unsure where we want the units dropped. The 5 Galleon chain will get them to Haithabu in one turn. To go to the area around Ecbatana/Birka actually requires a sixth Galleon to be accomplished in one turn. I think rrau will need to be flexible until the Galleons all arrive and we can start moving the units three at a time.

From a logistics standpoint, it would be nice to capture and keep at at least Haithabu as a landing port. Birka and Ecbatana are both size 6 and we could keep them for pop-rushing, especially Birka as it has excess food. Just hoping for a fairly good road network in open country to assist in moving units quickly.

Economy looks in good shape to me, but I don't have a good feel for how the whipping will affect it. My guess is that we could go from Monarchy to HBR, which would give us the option for some better mobile units that might come in handy several turns down the road, especially if the AI sends out settler parties or comes at us with cats.
At 0% science, we are losing 55 GPT. I think we can get HBR as well. It could make the difference with smaller cities that are a long walk away. I think the money issue will come if we wish to upgrade Archers to XBows. Should Kufah ever reach pop 2 and we grab it, we could chop for Gold there. It will be interesting to see what Mecca hold for the terrain around it?

I think allocating Gator Buggy and MP's FL to the west coast of Arabia for the time beiong could speed things up for us as well. We will have to evaluate the situation for where Thunder Rider may best be used?

As far as I can see CP's suggestion for Najran is similar to mine except that he wants to attack one turn sooner which makes good sense provided that we are 5 attackers against 2 defenders. rrau, I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about the farm near Najran - I don't see any farms.

I'm still unsure where we want the units dropped. The 5 Galleon chain will get them to Haithabu in one turn. To go to the area around Ecbatana/Birka actually requires a sixth Galleon to be accomplished in one turn. I think rrau will need to be flexible until the Galleons all arrive and we can start moving the units three at a time.

This will depend a lot on concrete war plans. My feeling is that we would probably want to reinforce WT3 - maybe go for Birka. Units that land there soon will still have time to move inland and capture any cities there (Persepolis). Tarsus is not a big problem and can be dealt with fast when we have a galleon chain available and WT4 (Nidaros -. Uppsala) will probably not require any units during rrau's turn set.

At 0% science, we are losing 55 GPT. I think we can get HBR as well. It could make the difference with smaller cities that are a long walk away. I think the money issue will come if we wish to upgrade Archers to XBows.

I think we should stay flexible for a while and set research to 0%. We can get HBR in only 3 turns if we decide we need it to capture inland cities faster.

So far our goal has been to beat the CRC date, but when you look at the progress chart it's not obvious if Smurkz or OSS will also be able to beat their date. In other words, the sooner we win the better.

One more comment. Building a winery should have some priority since the extra happy face is needed now in Athens.

rrau, I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about the farm near Najran - I don't see any farms.



I looked again and it's actually a cottage tile. It's the one directly W of the city with the road, as I could unload the galleon there and join the 2 sets of troops.

I looked again and it's actually a cottage tile. It's the one directly W of the city with the road, as I could unload the galleon there and join the 2 sets of troops.

In that case I recommend CP's suggestion of unloading the trops 1S of Najran so that we can start bombarding ASAP. The sword and the chariot can go to the tile SW of Najran - I dont see any urgent need to join with the other stack.

The 3 swords headed for Mecca should, on the other hand, join with the WE that has just left Baghdad. This is important in order to protect the swords from axemen (I think a Persian axe was spotted some time ago).

The 3 swords headed for Mecca should, on the other hand, join with the WE that has just left Baghdad. This is important in order to protect the swords from axemen (I think a Persian axe was spotted some time ago).
I went back to find that and it is in this post by Gator. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6412764&postcount=910)
The first screenie is the piccie you need. The time was turn 194.
2 Axes (both with CBT1 promo) and 2 Archers located WNW of Najran.

Sorry I haven't been able to contribute much lately. I went skiing in Vermont last week (mostly tumbling down the mountain actually) and came home with the Flu.

It looks like the rest of you have things well in hand. I vote for keeping research at 0% right now. We could be at -100 GPT by the time this thing is done. And I vote to keep Ectabana, and to whip it for cats.

Get well soon, SCT.

Seems rrau is ready . . . perhaps pause after capture of Najran.

Welcome back SCT. :wavey: Missed your advice.

The tumbling didn't sound too bad but the flu, hope you get well soon. :health:

Seems rrau is ready . . . perhaps pause after capture of Najran.
What do you think rrau? :hmm:
I think a pause after the capture of Najran is a good idea. :)

Plan seems good.

Leif, now that Cactus Pete is back maybe our turn swap can be changed back to the original order.

I haven't had heaps of time lately for opening up the save and taking a look (or for playing Civ in general).

Leif, now that Cactus Pete is back maybe our turn swap can be changed back to the original order.
Let's ask? Would this be OK with you CP? :)

Hope you feel better Shannon. Try to keep an eye on the whip schedule in between sneezes.

Good luck, rrau. Time for some :hammer:

So far our goal has been to beat the CRC date, but when you look at the progress chart it's not obvious if Smurkz or OSS will also be able to beat their date. In other words, the sooner we win the better.

Lets stay aggressive.

*grins* OK. Will start after a snack and assembling the battleplans by the comp and making sacrifices to the RNG gods. Will try to post later tonight after the first couple turns.

Don't forget the ice cream. ;)

Good luck!! :thumbsup: :hammer: :rockon:
As I run to the altar in the basement to make the team sacrifices... :please:

Let's ask? Would this be OK with you CP? :)

I'm happy either way.

I'm happy either way.
OK, that puts CP ON Deck to be followed by JT. Thanks. :)

I'll make the change in the next roster update after rrau completes. Seeing what happened during Gator's turn set, that could be March... :mischief:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Unfortunately, already pausing to ask about plan other than retreat......The RNG gods laughed at our offers.:sad:

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f259/AngelSpice2/ScreenShot019.jpg

The only thing I can think of where we don't retreat is to leave the cat uncovered to bombard this turn and move the WE to the plains cottage to cover the 2 swords as they move to Najran.

The only thing I can think of where we don't retreat is to leave the cat uncovered to bombard this turn and move the WE to the plains cottage to cover the 2 swords as they move to Najran.
That will leave the Cats open to attack from the entire Persian stack.

I think what I would do is move the Sword stack 1 tile to the SW, keeping it on the road. Then I would move the WE, Axe and Bombard Cat 1 tile to the NE to cover them. And then bring the WE coming from Baghdad 2 tiles NW. We would be in position to counterattck next turn and this will protect the Swords as well as allowing them to move to Najran next turn.

I wish I knew where they will go. If we can take them out next turn, perhaps we should as the units onboard MP's FL will be vulnerable to them as they move to Mecca. :hmm:

Does this make sense to you?

Yeah...I was trying to figure out a way to keep from delaying the plans, for Mecca, but I don't think we can do that.

They came from the tile directly to the north of where they are so they aren't attacking Saladin..........

We still run the risk that they will attack the Cat stack south of Najran but I don't think there is anything we can do about that. I assume you just offloaded the Galleon so the units cannot be reloaded?

I think we have time to get Mecca, although I would prefer not to delay. But it is better to have something to attack with... :)

I hope our luck gets better? :cheers:

No, I unloaded the WE and cat last turn. I haven't made anymoves yet this turn. I could reload them.

I'm thinking to wait for more people to weigh in since this may significantly delay our plans (if we reload the WE and cat and wait to start bombarding) and continue after work tomorrow night.

No, I unloaded the WE and cat last turn. I haven't made anymoves yet this turn. I could reload them.

I'm thinking to wait for more people to weigh in since this may significantly delay our plans (if we reload the WE and cat and wait to start bombarding) and continue after work tomorrow night.
That is a good plan. :goodjob:

Not sure if anyone will want it, but here's the save:

I'm thinking to wait for more people to weigh in since this may significantly delay our plans (if we reload the WE and cat and wait to start bombarding) and continue after work tomorrow night.

That's a good idea.

If you upload the save then we can see exactly what units are in play around that area.
[edit: oops already uploaded]

Has there been any combat since you started your set?

No combat yet. I just did the few unloading and troop moves and MMing that were recommended and hit enter and turned research to zero.

Cool. :goodjob:

It's a pain to stop only after a few moves after getting all set to play, but it's the right thing to do, especially since there's no hurry.

I think we can keep the cat where it is and unload the other in the same place. The Persian units won't be able to see them from 2 tiles away and I can't see why they would move toward Najran. They are much more likely to move back toward their homeland with their cities under seige. Move the WE and the swords onto the cottage this turn and attack next turn.

I think we can keep the cat where it is and unload the other in the same place. The Persian units won't be able to see them from 2 tiles away and I can't see why they would move toward Najran. They are much more likely to move back toward their homeland with their cities under seige. Move the WE and the swords onto the cottage this turn and attack next turn.

Agree with SCT's plan, the AI generally does not change course. Some additional notes:
Promote the WE before moving him onto the cottage; bombard, of course; drop the cat and sail home; be sure to separate the swords before moving any of them (they are presently set to all move together), and move the two least promoted swords individually onto the cottage along with the chariot [BTW, is it the case that the chariot has no 100% bonus vs. an axe if the axe attacks?];

then move the two heavily promoted swords onto the forest stack (which does not move this turn) and the WE 2 tiles further along the road;

drop the worker and move MP"s FL toward Najran as planned (the sword on board will then be available next turn for an amphibious attack on a badly wounded archer -- should the RNG gods not favor us -- and a promotion);

if the Persian stack proceeds 2 tiles along the road, then let's promote the WE to the fist, attack with both WE (promoting the one in the stack first), the axe (should not attack last, as that would leave it wounded on the road and easy for an Arab chariot to kill) and one of the swords (if badly wounded, the other sword should be moved onto the road on top of it for protection), with the chariot available for healing after this attack or the one on Najran, depending on where it is needed most.

Units will have to heal before proceeding toward Mecca, but they will get promotions, gain GG points, and the Persian units will have been dealt with when most vulnerable.

If the Persian stack moves onto the forest, we'll have to attack Najran without further bombardment, using the two swords first and leaving the WE to defend them. The unpromoted, just off-loaded cat should probably be added to the stack.

then move the two heavily promoted swords onto the forest stack (which does not move this turn) and the WE 2 tiles further along the road;

if the Persian stack proceeds 2 tiles along the road, then let's promote the WE to the fist, attack with both WE (promoting the one in the stack first), the axe (should not attack last, as that would leave it wounded on the road and easy for an Arab chariot to kill) and one of the swords (if badly wounded, the other sword should be moved onto the road on top of it for protection), with the chariot available for healing after this attack or the one on Najran, depending on where it is needed most.

Units will have to heal before proceeding toward Mecca, but they will get promotions, gain GG points, and the Persian units will have been dealt with when most vulnerable.

As far as I can count attacking the Persian stack will slow down the Mecca attack considerably. If we assume that the units need 3 turns to heal my count says that the Mecca attack may be delayed 6 turns which is more than 1/4 of the total time we have left. A big problem is that the accuracy cat will arrive much later when we halt the stack with the cat, WE and axe.

I would suggest that we try to avoid contact with the Persian stack if possible. I don't think it will follow our forces to Mecca. It's much more likely that it will go towards Persia or - best case - towards Bagdad. We can chop or whip an archer in Baghdad that can be upgraded to xbow. The persian stack will be without chance against an xbow and an axe in Baghdad and hopefully they will suicide against them.

I agree that attacking the Persian stack in the open is the most economical way of playing but I doubt that it is the fastest and I would be prepared to risk that this stack makes it way back to Persia in return for a more speedy attack on Mecca.

My suggestion would be to move the cat, We, axe stack towards Mecca as planned, move the two swords south to join with the WE coming from Baghdad and then start moving this stack towards Mecca as well.

I like the way you guys think. :rockon:

Fred's plan is what I think we need to try. It keeps us on our timetable. As I think about it, should they get back to Persia and find their way into a city, they become vulnerable to our Cats that are currently being built in our homeland. And having a X-Bow waiting for them in Baghdad would be very nice. :goodjob:

I like the way you guys think. :rockon:
Fred's plan is what I think we need to try. It keeps us on our timetable. And having a X-Bow waiting for them in Baghdad would be very nice. :goodjob:

Fred makes a good argument. I'd still make the case that the opportunity to attack an axe on a non-defensive tile with a fist WE should not be ignored. We could do that, and, if it's not bad