GOTM 74 Pre-Game Discussion

This will be a Small Pangaea map, played at Monarch. I'll add a week to the contest so players who wrap up their COTM43 Polynesia game in the final hours will have a little time to try this one, if they like. :) Note that there are 2 minor civs in the game - they start with extra Settlers, but can't build anymore.

Civilization: Aztecs
Rivals: 5 (+2 minor civs)
Barbarians: Roaming
Difficulty: Monarch
Land Form: Pangaea, 60% ocean, Small map.
Geology: 5 billion years old, Normal, Wet


http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/gotm74large.jpg
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/images/gotm74mini.jpg

Conquest-Class Bonuses:

Start with 2 Bonus Archers
Start with an extra 50 Gold
Start with knowledge of Wheel



Predator-Class Challenges:

Start without Ceremonial Burial
Minor AI get 2 Pikes, Normal AI get 1 Pike, all AI get 2 Bonus Unit Support
Normal AI modded to build Offensive Units and Growth Often


A reminder: do not post any game information to this thread after you have downloaded the save file. Absolutely no spoiler information for this or any GOTM is to be posted in this thread!

wow. I was gonna suggest a predator conquest with only jags... but pikes make such a thing tough.

once you go predator, you can't go back, right?

once you go predator, you can't go back, right?
Right. ;)

I think a Jag rush could have good chances anyway, you only need a few more of them.. :mischief:

Predator forever! :smug:. (wasn't that Darkness's sig?)

Punchy start. I feel greedy for fog-gazing, but there is something NNW. Possibly the base of an incense pot.

wow. I was gonna suggest a predator conquest with only jags... but pikes make such a thing tough.

I was thinking that's the way I will play regardless - is the tenth shield in the capital corrupt on small Monarch? If not, then we get 10 spt at size 4 in our Golden Age and at size 5 in any case. If you can produce them at that rate, who needs anything besides jags?

Punchy start. I feel greedy for fog-gazing, but there is something NNW. Possibly the base of an incense pot.
I'll second that- sure does look like desert with incense.

Methinks it's time to consider playing predator:eek: . It will be harder(dur!) but then I'll know how I compare to the best players on an even playingfield.

For some reason 100K(or 80K?) is calling out to me. A nice peaceful building game :p .

Yes, I believe the 10th shield is corrupt on a small map. And in PtW, cultural victory requires 100k regardless of map size.

TBD (suggestions?)

Take away the settler, wait, no, that won't work. :crazyeye:

How about you give the minor AIs free walls in each city they build? Additionally, since Predator starts without CB, it only makes sense that the major AIs should know this. ;) And..I'll shut up. :p

-Elear

well, a way to do it is make jags 15 shields, like conquests does, but that's just mean.

How about you give the minor AIs free walls in each city they build?

well, a way to do it is make jags 15 shields, like conquests does, but that's just mean.

These are both just mean :nono:. I remember the good old days :old: when the Predator adjustments were sort of a "mixed curse" - things like giving the AI extra unit support or an extra worker, so that in theory the AI would be stronger, but a good player could conceivably take advantage of the AI's bonuses and actually win the game faster on Predator than he could on Open.

Personally, I think on a map that seems to call for a jag rush strategy, giving each AI pikemen is plenty :cringe:.

Predator forever! :smug:. (wasn't that Darkness's sig?)

Punchy start. I feel greedy for fog-gazing, but there is something NNW. Possibly the base of an incense pot.

I can't believe I can see it, most of the time I can't see anything, but that is the back leg of another moo cow. I'd bet my entire career of fog gazing on it, which is basically nothing since this is the first time I think I've actually found something.

An extra worker would be good, too.

Frankly, I think 2 pikes is enough to make it tough on jag rushes!!

plus, of course, the near certainty of greece and carthage and maybe rome being next door neighbors...

plus, of course, the near certainty of greece and carthage and maybe rome being next door neighbors...

Aren't they always ;)

...
How about you give the minor AIs free walls in each city they build? Additionally, since Predator starts without CB, it only makes sense that the major AIs should know this. ;) And..I'll shut up. :p

-Elear
Free Walls ... nah, to tough. Free CB to all AI ... actually helps the Predator player, as any free Techs do if the Predator plays a Tech game.

well, a way to do it is make jags 15 shields, like conquests does, but that's just mean.
hmm ... could make the Jag require Iron? I'll be sure to provide a nearby source (20 moves away is nearby, right? :D ); just another thing to do before starting the rush.

These are both just mean :nono:. I remember the good old days :old: when the Predator adjustments were sort of a "mixed curse" - things like giving the AI extra unit support or an extra worker, so that in theory the AI would be stronger, but a good player could conceivably take advantage of the AI's bonuses and actually win the game faster on Predator than he could on Open.

Personally, I think on a map that seems to call for a jag rush strategy, giving each AI pikemen is plenty :cringe:.
Yes, and the outcry that the Predator challenges were actually benefits was somewhat loud. So in general I try to put in place Predator challenges that are a small handicap no matter what skill level the player is at.

Jag rush strategy is pretty obvious and easy for Open and Predator, so I'll back off a bit on the Pikemen - the 2 minor AI's get 2 Pikes, the remaining AI's get 1 Pike.

Another possible challenge is to remove the Religious trait - no 1 turn Anarchy and no half priced religious buildings.

Another possible challenge is to remove the Religious trait - no 1 turn Anarchy and no half priced religious buildings.

:mad: Please no, anything but that.

Making jags need iron does sound interesting though.

@Marsden- I hope you're right about that cow, though personally I wouldn't risk anything on it.:)

Yes, and the outcry that the Predator challenges were actually benefits was somewhat loud.

Well, sure, but that's when I was playing Open :cry:. Now that I'm playing Predator they should be benefits :D.

I'd rather the AI get more pikes!!!

How about not making the Jags available until Bronze Working? That'll delay building the first one for about 20 turns. Having Greece, Germany & Carthage (and maybe Rome) as neighbors is also a nice challenge. To really up the ante you could convert those pikes to Swiss Mercenaries :evil:

I really think the predator handicaps should be handicaps, where's the fun otherwise? :p

I think pikes with the AIs is definitely challenge enough, but if you want to cripple us more I think taking away the Militaristic advantage is more suitable than removing Religious, which only hurts certain kinds of games that aren't obviously tied to jag rushes. ;)

I'm sticking with the incense theory. Because moos don't stand on deserts ;)

That's definitely incense.

I've updated the first post to downgrade the # of pikes. Still not sure about Challenge #3. Definitely wont do Iron as a Jag resource - you couldn't build them until you had Swordsmen.

Game saves will go out a little late - probably about 12 pm in GMT-8 (SoCal). I'm out to my wife's work's Christmas dinner and can't finish these off until afterwards. Besides, you're all still working on COTM43, right? :D

good lord!!! jags on swiss mercs????

shoot me now.

I play Open, and my games usually run many turns. Lots of food, shields, a luxury (looks like incense at 4x resolution), and no doubt lots of neighbors - how entertaining! I'll restrict my jags to scouting duty to avoid early GA, and will build spears and archers to tide me while searching out and acquiring (by whatever means) some iron. I'll likely RCP3 my cities, though scouting reports might lead me to RCP4 them, which would allow me up to 16 RCP4 cities (at D2 spacing) depending on terrain and neighbors.

I'm sticking with the incense theory. Because moos don't stand on deserts ;)

That's definitely incense.

I play Open, and my games usually run many turns. Lots of food, shields, a luxury (looks like incense at 4x resolution), and no doubt lots of neighbors - how entertaining! I'll restrict my jags to scouting duty to avoid early GA, and will build spears and archers to tide me while searching out and acquiring (by whatever means) some iron. I'll likely RCP3 my cities, though scouting reports might lead me to RCP4 them, which would allow me up to 16 RCP4 cities (at D2 spacing) depending on terrain and neighbors.

I'm sure you're right. My crystal ball is cracked.

OK, 3rd Predator obstacle is to mod Normal AI to build Offensive Units and Growth often. Saves are up!

A jag rush + despotic golden age + early conquest seems the most obvious play style for this game... so why not exploring some possible alternative strategies? We'll see if it's possible... meanwhile i'm struggling to finish game 73 :D

:thumbsup: on the extra week. Haven't completed a number of GOTMs recently, and the Egypt one, while fun, was no exception. Could've used an extra week on that one actually :D.

I'm new to GOTMs, so is there anyplace where you download the saves, or do you have to use the editor to do it yourself?

You get the starting saves from over here: http://gotm.civfanatics.net/games/index.php?month=74,
which should be the same page that is linked to when there is a news announcement about new GOTMs on the CivFanatics homepage. There should also be a "GOTM74 saves available" thread kicking about somewhere, but those threads tend to drop down the forum index pretty quickly because they don't get any replies...
Anyway, good luck. This one looks juicy. :yumyum:

I know that you have to go to that page, but where on the page are they?

All the way at the bottom - you will see sections for Conquest, Open, and Predator classes with the saves at the bottom of each section.

All I see at the bottom is this:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/124581/GOTM74.png

Where is the link for it?

See the line where it says "Click on the image below to download the Predator-class save file for PTW"? How about clicking the [ptw] image just below it? ;)

When I move my mouse over it, nothing happens. Is it just me, or does that link have compatibility problems with Macs, because I got it to DL on my PC.

For what i know people with macs just play it fine. MeThinks it's a glitch with your browser. BTW, did you manage to get the save file and play it?

@DOMINATRIX: Are you still having trouble downloading?

There's no compatibility issue with Macs as far as I know. I have a Mac, and I have no problem in Safari or Firefox. You are obviously on a similar version of Safari to me, as you have the web clipping icon in your toolbar, so I can't imagine what would be preventing you from downloading the files.

I got it to work, it was some stupid preference that wasn't enabled (I forgot which).