I hate it... actually, hate may not be a strong enough word. This is a feature that does nothing but slow down the game. It is simply not fun.

And the worst part is, I came to realize that it doesn't even matter if you keep them out of your cities or not. Why? Because keeping them out periodically causes unrest EXACTLY like letting them in. Every so many turns they try to spread to your city again (always my capital for some reason), which means more unrest to keep them out. If I let them in, they periodically cause unrest. There is no difference.

Is there some other event that doesn't involve unrest that can occur? I don't mind random religious units switching sides. I can deal with that by assigning them to garrison duty or another war. I didn't even mind the old culture reduction. But currently all it's doing is making me feel like I'm waiting three turns to keep playing.

Has the cult of the dragon not been removed from Shadow, anyways ?

No, it is in, as one of the seven guilds. I agree with the OP, I only played 200 or so turns so far in one game, but the Cult is extremelly irritating. And I don't know if it was because I was with the custom setting that raises event's chance of happening, but it soon spread like a plague to almost, if not all, civilizations.

Same here, I found that the Cult got founded very early (like before turn 50 if the Sheaim or Kuriotates were in the game) and tried and tried and tried and tried again to spread to my capital. I was playing with extra events, so it might have added to it, but I think there should be a limit to how frequently it can happen to the same city.

In fact, I can't remember any other duplicate random event happening to one of my cities. I don't know if there is a check (would be good) and if the Cult somehow evades it, but it is annoying...

The Cult is supposed to be annoying, AFAIK. Now if it is an annoying FEATURE as the OP says, then there's something to discuss about.

Find the headquarters of the cult (i would guess in a kurio / sheaim city) and turn it to rubble.... problem solved :)

Problem is, you can't do that so early in the game whithout crippling yourself... At least I can't :x

But about the cult, it could be toned down... Like, only happen again ins 50 turns or so if it already happened... Because it is supposed to be annoying, right, but it's not fun if you don't play each 3 turns out of 10 in the whole game x.x

Problem is, you can't do that so early in the game whithout crippling yourself... At least I can't :x

But about the cult, it could be toned down... Like, only happen again ins 50 turns or so if it already happened... Because it is supposed to be annoying, right, but it's not fun if you don't play each 3 turns out of 10 in the whole game x.x


In a recent game, not having an open border with the kuriokates delayed the spread of the dragon cult to my lands. By the time of my first champion unit, it was roughly the time when the first of the cult spread to one of my cities.

I had a small (blitzkrieg type) war with the Kurio, just enough to cripple them (they only had 4 cities and i captured one and razed one which the dragon cult founding city) and after that, i had very little spread of the cult. However, In that game, the kurio were wiped out completely by one of the dwarf races, maybe 70 turns later...

lol, champions ? The time when the cult spread to me I still had only 1 city, with warriors and was building a settler, and I didn't even had met the Kurios/Sheiam x.x

Edit: I play on Epic, so that must've helped the Cult's expansion. Hum... Speaking of the game makes me want to finish it x.x

lol, champions ? The time when the cult spread to me I still had only 1 city, with warriors and was building a settler, and I didn't even had met the Kurios/Sheiam x.x

Edit: I play on Epic, so that must've helped the Cult's expansion. Hum... Speaking of the game makes me want to finish it x.x


ahh - i was only on emperor at normal speed with the standard event options...

That figures.... Epic speed + more events... Well, maybe game *is* balanced with normal options then... But I still think Cult should be re-balanced for 'More Events' options, because that's is for enjoying the *good* events, not being annoyed constatly, in my opinion ^^''

In a recent game, not having an open border with the kuriokates delayed the spread of the dragon cult to my lands. By the time of my first champion unit, it was roughly the time when the first of the cult spread to one of my cities.



I don't know what settings you played with, but I play normal speed with double events and in every game the cult tries to spread to my city before I even have contact with the founding civ, let alone trade routes or open borders. In one game I hadn't contacted anyone yet or even built a road. Open borders and trade routes don't have any effect as far as I can tell.

And on a large map with all 19 civs, it isn't easy to attack them early on.

I don't know what settings you played with, but I play normal speed with double events and in every game the cult tries to spread to my city before I even have contact with the founding civ, let alone trade routes or open borders. In one game I hadn't contacted anyone yet or even built a road. Open borders and trade routes don't have any effect as far as I can tell.

And on a large map with all 19 civs, it isn't easy to attack them early on.

Standard map, emperor, pangea, all standard rules - think there were me + 5 on the map

I usually do Huge map, epic speed, and lately have been doing double events. Starting 6 games that way, I've had the cult come to my capitol before my first settler was built in 5 of them.

By the way, has anyone successfully had it removed by one of the events? In one of those games I let it get in the city only to find out that you get lovely things like 4 turns of unrest or losing buildings that took 50 turns to build. Every time the option came up I took the "25% chance to get rid of the cult" choice, but it never got rid of it. I know it is not a guarantee, but it was still there after 7 or 8 attempts. (If my math is right, that is a 87% - 90% chance after that many tries.)

I tried the "extra events" option. What that does in my opinion is not change the number of unique events, but rather, it seams to increase the frequency of the events you recieve. What I mean is that the game seems to pre-determine which events are going to happen, then it's a random shot at who gets hit with those events. So, in all of my games, if any player gets the herbal remedy event, it's a guarentee that I will get it, and that eventually everyone will get it. Further evidence is the bandits reaking havoc in the farm and fire or flood events, which seem to happen to someone in every game no matter what option you pick. However, in this last case, if you chose the "extra events" option, and you were unfortunate to get hit with the ugly stick so to speak, then you will have the negative event happen to you many many times. I had a game, where the same city got hit by the bandits reaking havoc on the same farm 7 times in 300 turns...that equated to 70 gold! Without the extra event option on, it's a normal BTS game, where anything can happen and happens to just one person, just one time.

The way I understood it is that there are a list of possible events, but that each has a prerequisite. For example, you won't get the bandits looting your farm event if you don't have a farm, and you won't get certain end game events without a high armageddon counter. In the early game -- when it is set to double events -- there are only two or three to pick from, so it seems like every event hits every civ. (Each civ gets randomly picked for enough events they they get hit by most or all of them.)

Haven't had much time to play, but first time I chose Kurio and second time Random gave me them. Each time I got the event for CoD very early on. I am wondering why it isn't tied to the building of your Dragon anymore? Especially if it is THIS annoying.

Make it spread fast and often, and it is an appropriately annoying thing to do to people at the point where you are able to build a dragon. But early in the game, it has to be slow and infrequent or it is simply debilitating.

Yes I find Cult of the Dragon annoying too. It should at least allow the player to make meaningful decision of whether to keep the cult out or let it in.

If allowed in, let the Cult should have the effect like before where the units produced in that city have the cult promotion but at least there's no unrest.

If not let in, it randomly causes unrest in the city.

The way I understood it is that there are a list of possible events, but that each has a prerequisite. For example, you won't get the bandits looting your farm event if you don't have a farm, and you won't get certain end game events without a high armageddon counter. In the early game -- when it is set to double events -- there are only two or three to pick from, so it seems like every event hits every civ. (Each civ gets randomly picked for enough events they they get hit by most or all of them.)

I like your explanation.

The problem with CotD firing so often isn't that it's set to fire often. It's that the game first decide if it's going to trigger an event and only then decide what event to trigger. Early in the game there aren't many events to choose from so the CotD events get chosen often (or even always).

Concerning the cult of the dragon, my judgement is practically identical to that of felwar. I do not think that the periodical annoyance from the popups (from a city that has the guild in it) adds something beneficial or interesting to the gameplay. If there were at least some events (or another effect) that could compensate for the annoyance. But, unfortunately, nada (aka nothing).

As a sidenote, and in context of the cult of the dragon, I still prefer playing V21 or so, where CotD was a religion, and a unique tech was needed, only researchable by the two draconic civs. I always liked the idea that it was supposed to be some kind of "retro" religion, I never quite understood why this concept was abandoned. It also seems strange to me that now the Lanun are the only civ with a unique tech.

Starting from V21, i.e. where CotD was a religion, I think a cool design could have been that the negative effects would apply for each of non-cult religions in the city (except AV maybe). Or, as an alternative, it could weaken the effects of the temples of other religions (obtaining less culture, for instance, or obtaining less gold from a RoK temple). Such a design would not give rise to annoyance as being described above, but it would still have an effect on how the city develops. Certainly, such an implementation would smooth out the gameplay. Being unsure on how this could be coded, though...

I agree, we have options to remove religions, how about one for the cult of the dragon. The way it is right now is just awful.

ive had the event two turns in a row, making for double the length of the revolt.. so far it just seems like a pain

I forgot to mention in my above post: Being tristly sad that the Wyrmhold has gone. :cry:

Please, please, bring it back!

(Or I guess I will start to think about creating a private mod.)

I am clearly against ideas removing the cult of the dragon completely, but certainly it should be redone so that it makes more sense in gameplay.

Also, shouldnt the assassins guild be an option when the cult tries to get into one of your cities?

ive had the event two turns in a row, making for double the length of the revolt.. so far it just seems like a pain

What I hate is that it appears without fail every time I attempt the Bone Palace and my entire construction gets reset back to 0 hammers.

Destroying the city with the headquarters does not stop it from spreading.

ive had the event two turns in a row, making for double the length of the revolt.. so far it just seems like a pain

Same thing happened to me. I had just started my first settler. 6 turns extra of waiting with no research.

Worse was me. 4 turns to finish settler, on Epic speed. Then all production is lost. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrgggg !!!! >.<

Haven't had a chance to play Shadow yet, but is there a possibility to destroy (or at least cripple) the whole Cult of the Dragon via events, perhaps by employing the Assasins' Guild? If not, there should be.

I'd advise not using living world now, since there were not many events added this version.

I started my first game of Shadow as Kuriotates, a Big and Small map where I have yet to meet other civs since I'm alone on a island, but the Cult already spread to 3 other Civs capitals. I haven't had any event or advantage from this though, at least not yet.

If I understand correctly, the problem appears to be that CofD is logical a religion but spreads via events. Having to build a mine and a farm near each of your cities just to reduce CofD spreading seems a silly bit of micromanagement.

How about have CofD be a religion. TheCofD could be created via an event but spreads like a religion. When CofD naturally tries to spread to one of your cities you get the CofD event and you can stop it spreading. Once you allow one of your cites to have the CofD religion, CofD events get added to the list of possible events when an event is triggered.

I just noticed this in the bug thread:

Patch "b": (unreleased)
3. Cult of the Dragon won't found until the Sheaim/Kuriotates have Philosophy.

I was just about to define the current Cult of Dragon, as per patch a in four words:

'Too soon, too often'

I think with the b change things will be a touch better, since by that time I hope one will have more than enough cities to make a big hit in the capital not affect so much.

Have you guys actually tried to let the Cult spread in your capital ? So far I haven't noticed negative effects after letting it spread.

the only effect is your units being unable to attack dragons. Any dragon can roar to summon all CotD units to his/her side (within a 1-2 plot radius, not sure).

Have you guys actually tried to let the Cult spread in your capital ? So far I haven't noticed negative effects after letting it spread.

Didn't you post that you were playing the Kuriotates? You won't see any negative side effects as them or the Sheiam. Everyone else gets periodic terrorism and unrest.

yep but I was now reffering to another game as Svartalfar. I lost many turns trying to stop the Cult, and when I let it in, nothing bad happened yet (I'm early in the game).

yep but I was now reffering to another game as Svartalfar. I lost many turns trying to stop the Cult, and when I let it in, nothing bad happened yet (I'm early in the game).

But by allowing them in, they will create more events which will destroy production, cause rebellions, etc. So it's either losing the production now or waiting for a wack a mole later.

Can inquisitors still remove the cult, or does that no longer work because it's not longer a true religion?

I'm glad the cult is being toned down. It's absolutely crippling when early on your capital is producing 80 or 90% of your commerce, and suddenly it's in unrest for 3+ turns (depending if cult tries to spread while in revolt).

I don't understand why the cult should even cause revolt if you try to keep it out. I mean, not letting in a cult that is babbling about nonsense for all your people are concerned should not make them produce absolutly nothing for a while. If anything i would suggest that it simply causes temporary unhappiness or better yet, have one option that keeps it out and cause unhappiness, one option that lets it in, and another option that makes the cult less likely to spread into that city and to a lesser extent your entire civ, but causes revolt. That way, you can choose to continue with what you are doing now and risk it coming back, or have it mess you up a lot now but make it less likely that you will be hurt when you are doing something more important

I would say put in more annoying things. It makes playing fun. But thats from one who has the builder playing style, so its nice if something happens.......lol

playing in a hotseat game last night under patch C, got hit by CotD while building a settler and on last turns before founding a religion, so i let in in. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Got hit by events 3 times in next 18 turns and altogether 7 times in first 53 turns. Was surprised when my city was in revolt that the cultural borders did not collapse in upon itself, but could never get rid of it. This guild/event really seems to go against the mods original credo of bringing new things in of "is it fun or is it just flavorful" there is nothing fun or interesting about this event and makes me wish there was an option to disable the CotD, just like you can disable a religion at game option if you so wish.

Just an observation:

The cult does have an impact later in game, after a dragon has been created. Then units in cities which have the cult may go over to a dragon within close range, and the cult becomes an unexpected menace.

But by allowing them in, they will create more events which will destroy production, cause rebellions, etc. So it's either losing the production now or waiting for a wack a mole later.

As I said, I didn't have any negative event after I let them in. And besides, since I would lose 3 turns every 5 in my main city, I don't really see another solution but letting them in.

I let them in because I was tired of the 3 turns of unrest. That was when the real problems arose in my capital.

The cult would sabotage my production! I would get a nice event that tells me they have sabotaged all production in the capital and I had 2 choices.

1. Lose all production, nothing I can do
2. Lose all production, burn the heretics, 25% to remove cult, 2 turns of unrest

Obvious choice was 2, try to remove them.

With the amount of production the capital carries in the early game this is pretty crippling. Especially since it is always founded in the early parts of the game and can be spread without trade routes, missionaries, or open borders.