View Full Version : Competing vs Darius I (Immortal WT)


obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:16 AM
Competing v.s. Darius I

Another SSE/WE walkthrough


Level:: Immortal
Leader:: Ramesses II


I suppose, there are a lot of different titles I could chose, but I decided this one because, it seemed for most the game Darius I was my main nemesis, both in techÖ wondersÖ and even in War.

I started this game hoping to use my pat & pended SEEWE strategy, but wanted to experiment a bit with the new Corporation system. What follows is the result of this trial, separated in two parts.

Part I Ė 4000 BC to Liberalism Race
Part II Ė Liberalism Race to Final Turn


http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/init.jpg


Here we go, Ramesses II with our regular (and HARD) settings. I think the other two leaders Iíve played lately (HC & Ghandi) sort have hurt my optimal play with Ramesses a bit (picking up bad habits), so I want to try a few more whacks with Egypt to get back into the flow.


Some Past Walkthroughs indexed here::

BtS
The Insane Walkthrough (HC) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=243033)
The Insane Walkthrough (Ghandi) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=253310)
The Insane Walkthrough (Ramesses) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=253779)

WarLords
The Insane Walkthrough (Ramesses) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=233901&highlight=insane+walkthrough)
The Unreal Walkthrough (Ramesses) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=231469)
The Unreal Walkthrough (Part II Ghandi) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234441&highlight=unreal)
The Impossible Walkthrough (Ramesses) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=231222)
The Impossible Walkthrough (Part II Ghandi) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=232798)

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:17 AM
4000 BC
Well, some goods and bads I see here. That corn I can irrigate right off the bat, so I’m rushing out a worker ASAP. A few hills will help with production, but I don’t like how the river just HAS to end at a corner where I am. I will still get fresh water from the lake but who cares! I want that river for my Hoover Dam(n) and Statue of Liberty, and pollution free energy power (if we get that far!) Oh well, that’s what we started with and we’ll just have to go with it.

Hey, will we even be able to build the SE in this spot? Hell if I know, I still haven’t had time to figure out how the world angle/radius/elevation/thingy requirements work with it. I’ll try to make that a priority after this walkthrough is complete in another thread…

First things first though, settle the guy in place, and THEN use the warrior to scout. I like to settle first to see more of where I want to move the warrior next. Though I’ll probably grab the hut first. I’d rather let the borders pop it to be safer, but in 5 turns the last thing you want is a scout from an AI popping it. That’s happened to me too many times in the past.

Let’s start with mining tech (yeah it sucks we don’t begin with it).

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/4000bc.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:17 AM
3560 BC
Met Darius I.
He’s a tech trading fan, I love him for that.
-ni

2520 BC
And here we are, StoneFence will be ready by end of this turn. Unfortunately we couldn’t find any stone, (or marble!) but we’ll just make do with what we have. That’s the trees and mighty whip! Keep in mind, there is a big whipping penalty for trying to race wonders, but some sacrifices have to be made.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/2520bc.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:18 AM
2200 BC
The Great Hall is ready for completion. Again, do whatever it takes to get that wonder rushed (except for using a GE!).

Note, we hit our happy cap and so ran a priest. We can run up to 2 with an obelisk due to the UB.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/2200bc.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:19 AM
1880 BC
Our first city is ready to be built! Unfortunately, this spot really isn’t optimal. What I wanted to do was move one more spot to the East, which would give me the copper as well as a production boost, and also a maximum group of tiles reserved just for that city (no overlap). Unfortunately my warrior (and scout?) got jumped on and killed. And now if I move one step over, I risk something killing my settler which would put us even more behind! So I’m just going to settle here, because things are going bad enough for us, and I’m so busy trying to get the pyramids now up as well without any stone!

Note: I’m still pretty pissed at losing my warrior. They are supposed to have a built in 5% bonus vs animals, yet I still lost. I actually moved him on the other side of a river just to prevent from losing to a lion. And he still died. Don’t animals get a penalty from attacking across a river? Come to think of it, since cats hate water so much, how does a lion cross a river to attack you anyway?

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1880bc.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:21 AM
1720 BC
Gprophet arrives (good, start giving me a boost here!)
-ni

1280 BC
Orca is running and we get our free tech choice. Yippee!

Iím going to take mathematics here, because this is specifically what I timed my order to be. And yes, it may not be so great as we risk losing the race for the Flying Gardens, while still not having stone, but Iím going to take a gamble for it anyhow. Besides, we need mathematics eventually one way or another.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1280bc.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:22 AM
1240 BC
Met Pacal. I’m still not too familiar with her (well it looks like a her!)
-ni

825 BC
Another Gprophet comes to town to brainwash the educated population. Instead I put him to work on hammers.
-ni

800 BC
Pop Rush PythonMids!
A quick look at the wonder screen tells us we won’t lose to a race here, so I’m going to sacrifice a bit of population just to MAKE SURE we don’t lose a tie. We have some setbacks without stone overlays, so I’m not going to take any risks.

Don’t forget to switch to Rep.
-ni

700 BC
Can you believe, only NOW do we find that evasive stone resource? Ok, we rush a settler down there and try to get it. Unfortunately we didn’t get to harvest it for our wonders, but it will come in handy for the University of Stinker and AngerWhat? Time to get it NOW. And don’t worry about not having barb protection, that’s why we have the Great Hall.

Note: I see three food sources in this spot, so I plan to turn this into a good SE city when up and running. Mostly science, and later for espionage I think, at least for now.

Note: Capital working on aqueduct and as soon as that’s done we are on to the Flying Gardens. Unfortunately I won’t be able to use the river to connect the stone, so I need to hurry up with workers and connect a road ASAP!

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/700bc.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:23 AM
350 BC
Alright, Flying Gardens ready for completion. Stone is FINALLY online! Thatís the good news. The bad news is we sill havenít got any marble; damnit!

Note: Happiness is 1 off from cap. Thatís what we want, because the Gardens will hit that cap next turn. Also, our health is capped, but we will get +1 to make up for the extra citizen on the same turn. So everything is set optimally here.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/350bc.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:23 AM
200 BC
In the North-Eastern quadrant, we are going to settle our 4’th city. I love hills/plains because they give an extra BOOST to the city. And while I don’t like sea-side tiles, at least there is some food there, and we want to fill in the territory SOMETIME.

Interestingly enough, our science is on 100% and we are running a neutral cost economy now. But that will change the second this city is founded. Well, some costs just have to be made.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/200bc.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:24 AM
150 BC
Great Spy arrives. I donít like to build Scotland yards with them early, I always settle, and build with them in the end game.
-ni

50 BC
Half a Million souls strong.
-ni

25 BC
The Poor Library is ready for completion. Thatíll speed up our teching to civil-service. And then weíll probably go toilet-paper or philosophy route.

Note, 16 Spy-Points a turn from this city without a slider. Not bad, it lets us easily peek at what the ďJonsesĒ are up to.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/25bc.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:25 AM
150
Ahh, the AD years. And now it is time for city #5. One more after this, and we have our mighty combo of 6! Which practically guarantees us victory no matter what.

I’m going to place it here because I want to get those gems and fill in a corner space before Darius gets any ideas to do it himself. Also you can’t really see it in this shot, but there is another sea-food tile in range also.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/150.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:26 AM
175
And here it is, the mighty city #6! I’m going to plant it here, in this area of jungle and forest. It’s a spot still able to fill in, and I think it would make a good National-Bark city once biology comes in. In the meantime, it will probably remain as a dirt poor city until that era.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/175.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:27 AM
250
We are just about done the Parthenon. Even without the aid of any freiken marble! But a little population rush helps at the very end (bust itís costly!).
-ni

350
G. Scientist arrives in town. Time to run our mighty academy.
-ni

540
Oh, did I forget to mention earlier, that our stone deposit also was going to help out with the Chicken Pizza here? Iím a bit surprised to win this prize actually.

BTW, we are on our race to philo now, instead of toilet-paper. I decided it was best to make a run for the AngerWhat? as it seems Philo hasnít even been touched yet by the other civs.

Note: Sadly, we have a 10% chance here to get a over-powered great-artist, despite the only thing contributing to one of them is the Parthenon. Yes, with all the other stuff in there, we will have a 1 in 10 chance still of everything going wrong. What can you do?

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/540.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:28 AM
560
We are able to convert to Confucianism. We do so immediately. This puts us in a perfect love-triangle between Darius and Pacal. Now we’re set up great in the diplomacy.
-ni

600
We are tasked to a Library Quest. We need to build SEVEN libraries. Argggh. But we only have 6 cities because we don’t need any more. Oh well, time to make (or take) a seventh then. But why stop there? If we go for 7 cities, we might as well build 8 just to use the Forbidden Palace.

Ok, ok… let’s set our goal for 8 cities now.
-ni

680
Great Prophet comes to town.
-ni

720
City #7 is coming on-line. I decided to put it here because the hills/plains will give a prod-boost. But in hindsight this was a mistake. I didn’t know this at the time, but there was a perfectly hidden seafood tile in range of where the barb archer is. Oh well, that’s a lesson learned to you, always check EVERY tile while you can, cause the one out of a hundred you miss, will be the important one (Murphy’s law of Civ).

So, do as I say, not as I do.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/720.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:29 AM
740
And here we go. Shemale-Wagon Paya is ready for completion. Now no more needing to trade for monotheism which will fill up our tech slots. The power of this combined with PythonMids gives us another nice leverage over the immortal AIs.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/740.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:30 AM
820
Whoops!! Founded Taoism by accident! Yet another mistake! For some reason, I wasnít thinking too much (going too fast through my turns). I wasnít expecting to hit this one too fast, but oh well. We COULD go back in the autosave and just change to another tech in the meantime, but that would be cheating! Iíll live with my mistakes, so Iíll learn harder for when not to do it NEXT TIME!

At least this means losing the AngerWhat? race will be impossible, unless of course someone has a GE ready.
-ni

940
Anger What? is up and running. The 500 hammer investment wasnít as bad as it looks; despite the fact we didnít have ANY freiken trees left to help out with.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/940.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:31 AM
960
Alright, here we go, we just put a down-payment on what used to be a barbarian city. As soon as the deal is complete we’ll have this one try to rush out a library as well.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/960.jpg

obsolete
Dec 19, 2007, 03:32 AM
980
We now hold a Million Souls.
-ni

1010
G. Scientist arrives to counter brainwashing from the priests.
-ni

1100
And now, we holds 2 million souls.
-ni

1120
Library Quest is won! I simply can’t refuse to gain a FREE scientist in this spot. Certainly it beats the free tech option.
-ni

1160
Great scientist pops.
-ni

1200
G. Artist pops. Arggggggh! And I tried everything to dilute the Parthenon artist pollution. I was even running a whole string of priests to make sure that wouldn’t happen.

Well that’s Murphy’s law for you!
-ni

1220
More bad luck. We LOST the liberalism race…

To be honest, I knew I was going to. I was watching Darius tech-master his way and blaze right through while we had no chance to catch up. And now, he’s taking his free tech, and jumping yet another whole level above us.

Looking at this score, his 1728 compared to us at the bottom of the list with only 1013 doesn’t look good. And that’s INCLUDING all the wonders we got! Seems we have to rebound somehow. He’s much bigger than us now (I guesstimate), and has the advantage of big level-bonuses.

Anyhow, I know what I did from this point as it was my game. The real question is what would YOU decide to do at this point. Aside from the obvious “We lost the liberalism race, so time to quit.” I’m curious to know what most people would plan here.

And so, ends part I…

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1220.jpg

Killroyan
Dec 19, 2007, 03:45 AM
Woot another obsolete thread. Always a good read. Love these. But why o why o why did you improve the cows so late????????????? Animal husbandry is hardly a tech detour and it would have shaved of so many turns from building wonders it hurts the eye. Also the second city, Memphis, why not 1SE so you also get the copper and the wine and it would still be on the riverside? You are a much better player then I am, so I am wondering about these things.

tycoonist
Dec 19, 2007, 04:56 AM
i would have taken the risk with memphis's placement, but hey, i guess you had your reasons. darius is a bit of a teching beast,so i would say war is the only way to go.

Cabledawg
Dec 19, 2007, 05:49 AM
Above Alexandria...is that an unimproved gems? Can you post the intial save?

Julian Delphiki
Dec 19, 2007, 05:55 AM
Whats the military situation and have you finished this game already?

Indiansmoke
Dec 19, 2007, 05:55 AM
Your tech slider is at 20%, so going to war now will be a disaster. I suggest build some workers improve all the land you have, get courthouses, go for military techs, try to be the first to Infantry and then declare.

vicawoo
Dec 19, 2007, 06:24 AM
Why not build beakers? Don't know if you have monasteries in your capital.

Meiz
Dec 19, 2007, 06:51 AM
Improving cows so late and unimproved gems is too hard for me to understand :)

kcmarkwell
Dec 19, 2007, 08:23 AM
as I always say, kill your biggest rival before they can too far out of reach. Time to mobilize the army and take out poor pathetic Darius.

The Rook
Dec 19, 2007, 03:16 PM
Improving cows so late and unimproved gems is too hard for me to understand :)

Yes, if this was a person asking for tips on how to beat Warlord, I would probably offer some elementary advice on improving terrain. Instead, I will just stare with my mouth wide open, as my chin scrapes the floor.

KMadCandy
Dec 19, 2007, 06:55 PM
Improving cows so late and unimproved gems is too hard for me to understand :)

in the 740 AD city view screenshot, axemen are on the "what you can build" list but swordsmen aren't. i guess he didn't know ironworking, so he couldn't chop the jungle to mine the gems?

The Rook
Dec 19, 2007, 07:28 PM
in the 740 AD city view screenshot, axemen are on the "what you can build" list but swordsmen aren't. i guess he didn't know ironworking, so he couldn't chop the jungle to mine the gems?

That makes sense, also looking at the farmed Spices and untouched Silk I would speculate that Calendar hasn't been obtained yet either. Highly unorthodox imho, but it works for Obsolete, and I have found his games highly educational as well as entertaining, so I wouldn't suggest his priorities are wrong.

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:22 AM
But why o why o why did you improve the cows so late?

For the same reason I didn’t improve the corn for so long in the Ghandi game. That’s a sucker-bet that monarch players will always fall for. It’s just not worth it because the tech for that ruins your speedy chances for so much more important things.

i would have taken the risk with memphis's placement, but hey, i guess you had your reasons.

I really wished I could have moved 1 more tile over. Unfortunately the areas were ablaze with animals. I know because my units just got raped in that vicinity. Unfortunately, the forests slow down your settlers, so you can’t even use them to SCOUT and run back to safety if they need. I just couldn’t risk my precious settler on his own.

Above Alexandria...is that an unimproved gems?

Yes, which is part of the reason I went there.

Whats the military situation and have you finished this game already?

Do you mean MY military? I’m pretty sure we’d show up as the weakest on the power-graph by far at this point. (Well, maybe not). Anyhow, yes it’s finished I’ll post Part II shortly.

i guess he didn't know ironworking, so he couldn't chop the jungle to mine the gems?

That would be right.

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:24 AM
************************************************** **
PART II


Alright, time to rebound.. regroup, and come up with a plan. We need to do some catching up here, and that will consist ofÖ

Öof us just continuing what we were doing (for now).

1260
Even more bad luck. Yet ANOTHER great artist arrives. What???? And Iím running a ton of Gpriest-producing wonders including a ton of great priests, and yet I am STILL getting artists!
-ni

1320
Finally, a Gpriest pops!
-ni

1400
Great Scientist pops
-ni

1490
Great Engineer pops.
Yeah, in case you didnít figure it out yet, we are running Pacifism.
-ni

1515
We now hold 5 Million souls. In the meantime, weíve done a few tech trading deals with Pacal in order to try to keep up with tech-master Darius.
-ni

1545
Isabella and the Ottoman empire meet us. Great, now even more AIís we can tech broker with to catch up with Darius.
-ni

1575
Brenus and Monte both meet us too now. Iím not happy with the likes of those. Good thing they are off on another continent right now. And they are fighting as usualÖ
-ni

1580
Another Gpriest pops. They are coming slower now, but thatís mainly because I turned off Pacifism. Both Darius and Pacal swapped to free religion, so I decided to follow suit. I donít need any aggressive leaders under Hinduism start a religious war against me at this point. No need to risk it at the moment.

Besides, FR means weíll be able to tech-trade more with the others.
-ni

1595
We now hold 10 Million Souls.

Ohh, and one more thing! We now have circumnavigated the globe. That gives us +1 movement per ship. That was a little easy, IIRC I made a small ship and headed it out to the other world as soon as I could, so I could find some tech trading buddies sooner. And thanks to trading maps before hand, my route to connect the world was even quicker as I only had to travel a short distance.
-ni

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/foreign1.jpg

Yup, everyone on the other end belongs to a vassal group, and is fighting with somebody else.

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:25 AM
1695
Noooo! We were so close to completing BroadWay, but then Darius beat us to it! Something is wrong. I was looking at his position in the tech race, and he simply built it too fast. Even though we were behind him, we have a power-production house. It would seem that Darius probably had a GE to rush things, or did he stockpile tons of cash and gold-rush it? I wasnít looking too close at ALL his stats to know for sure, but his builds seem much too fast, even with an immortal bonus?
-ni

1710
ANOTHER great artist arrives!
What the hell is going on? The bad luck streak never ends or what?

Note, I COULD use him to bulb for radio. Which, Ironically I am teching across now, with 7 turns left. Hmm. Just the thing to do, but instead I decided to keep him, yes, keep him (now 3 artists) in reserve. I was thinking the first I can use to found Civ-Jewlers corp, and then the other to start a golden age, and then the 3írd to couple with another GP to start a second golden age.

Thinking now in hindsight, itís a tuff call but I probably should have bulbed (Gasp!). Yes, this is one of those 1 in a thousand chances where itís actually not too bad to bulb here. There are a lot of reasons that pile ontop of each other, starting from the fact that itís a Great Artist, so youíre not losing anything much by bulbing one of them here, as I may still get another artist later and not know what to do with. I already got 3 at this point. And since Darius is out-pacing us still, we could catch up a little. Bulbing here may prevent us from losing another very close wonder race.
-ni


1770
If you canít beat them, join em. We sign a defensive pact with Darius. I want my power rating to improve a bit from the perspective of the aggressives. But I do risk getting drawn into a war if one of them attacks Darius.
-ni

1775
Alright, I forgot to mention some thingsÖ
We started on the RocknRoll, and Darius seems to have GE or gold-rushed that wonder and beat us. Then he did the same with the ET!

Arggh! How many GEís does this guy keep in reserve? Or is something else gone awry.
Whatever the case, we are NOT going to lose the race for the Cristo Oil! Here we are ready for completionÖ

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1775.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:26 AM
1802
Another GP arrives.

Notes: We tech brokered around, and picked up Steel as one of them. This is important to me because it lets me put up IW in my capital.
-ni


1808
And here we are, Hollywood. Ready for completion, but it gets better. We also just built the civilized jewlers corp. this turn too. (See, artists do have a use for SOMETHING!)

Note: I wasnít sure where to start this HQ. Because I am still not sure where I am going to build the national bank thingy! So, instead of waiting around, and risking someone else to grab the jewlers, I decided to just spawn it in my capital.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1808.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:27 AM
1814
Just an update… Even happy-tech-trading Darius now wont trade techs with us anymore. He’s still friendly, but because of all our brokering, we’ve finally crossed the gap and caught up quite a bit.
-ni

1824
We now hold 20 Million Souls.
-ni

1828
Another GP arrives.
-ni

1864
And yet another GP arrives, this time from our secondary GP farm (Heliopolis).
-ni

1874
Un Elections are held. Looks like Ottoman GE rushed the UN? Can anyone think of any worse of an idea to use for a GE? I’m so LMFAO. The guy who built it, was guaranteed a vote on the list anyhow. LOLz. Well this is how you can beat AI’s on Immortal, because they are just so STUPID!

Note: The weird thing is, I’m only listed in the middle of the world-ranking. Yet I am one of the candidates for electing. Weird.
-ni

1876
The votes are in, and I won? Here’s how they all tallied up.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1876.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:28 AM
1882
GP Pops.

Note: Researching computers(for the internet), itís a close race, with me and Darius on the same tech now, luckily he was off gathering a bunch of other techs and left this one for a while.

I decided to get ready for the HooverDamn in my sister city. Itís the only one that is on a river tile, but first I put in a pollution free generator to help it along.
-ni

1898
Great Scientist pops from my Sister City. Instead of absorbing him, Iíll keep him into reserve for either building another corporation, or combining it with a GA for a secondary golden age.
-ni

1903
Yahoo! Internet is ready for completion at the end of this turn! Assuming Darius doesnít beat us to it first! He did slide a turn ahead of us in the tech race, but I currently ran a bunch of spies up to his largest cities and am spawning unhappiness and poisoned water in them, just to slow down any builds. All those turns of throwing spy points (focusing most of them on Darius) is going to pay off here.

Also I have a second backup, and that is a golden age was started. I did this to increase the hammer production as much as possible, to shave off a turn here. I also was able to shave off another turn with certain civic switches, and having copper sure saves us even more.

In hindsight, I have 4 golden age turns in reserve, what I should have done was started earlier, which could have let me possibly get to computers on the same turn as Darius. But alas, I think this is good enough to ensure us victory of my favourite project.

And ontop of that, we have another 24 base hammers from the SSE to back us up here.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1903.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:29 AM
1905
I took the great scientist and used him to build the headquarter corporation of ethanol into my city far to the east where it is currently building the Wallstreet.

But there is something else interesting. This is the same turn that I build the Hoover Damn in my sister city.

Notes: As you can see, I also decided to build the national park in this city too, due to the forests still around it. This means my original plan for the northern city to be my NP city was scrapped. Oh well, time to chop away all the forests and trees in the north I had been stockpiling there.

And the golden-age still burnsÖ

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1905.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:30 AM
1925
Another GP pops from the capital.
-ni

1926
Hi-ho..hi-ho.. and off to sabotage we go.
Poor Darius is gong to have a very bad day today.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1926.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:33 AM
1932
Eeeeeeee!!
It happened, we are at war.

Somehow, it happened. I donítí know howÖ but I am told that Darius just attacked usÖ. No, we attacked himÖ no, noÖ letís see.

Ok, he attacked Pacal, and unfortunately for him, there was a defensive pact among all of us, so now I was forced to declare war back on him for Pacalís sake! Argggh! Stupid.. stupidÖ stupid AI!

And all this time I thought he was some peaceful guy, wtf just happened?



Anyhow, as for the other continentÖ The Ottoman empire ended up vassaling everyone (I bribed him into one too many wars and that ended up happening). But now, letís bribe him one more time, to get many birds with one stone. SoÖ this causes::


http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/foreign2.jpg


And thisÖ is what our first turn looks like after the initial attack. Darius parachuted units all over, and ran into our territory while stockpiling tons of bombers in range. I suppose he maybe knew what he was doing when he declared war on Pacal in the first place, but who knows.

But alas, I was prepared, for the northern city. For a while I had been running mechanized infantry (my most favourite of all defenders!) into my northern city. It was protected very well because of 2 reasons.

#1 I was debating on invading Pacal, so began to crank out units with my HE city.
#2 I had to stock my units somewhere, so I decided to mostly put them in that northern city, as it not only is a border city, but also borders BOTH my two opponents.

It was a smart move, as I raped Darius the turn he declared when he attacked it. Of course, itís not a big city anyhow, so it was no big loss to us if we did lose it. But hell, I donít mind holding onto it as a great little outpost either. It served us well in this spot.

So.. what do we do now? Nation-hood so we can draft the hell out of everything and counter attack. Oh wait, werenít we supposed to be in nation-hood already for the spy bonus? Well, switch civics again anyway for the other military ones!

Notes: In case you didnít spot it, weíve had science spending set on 0 ever since we started the internet project. The only sliders Iím going to use from now on are the spy and culture ones.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1932.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:34 AM
1933
All this fighting, and we gain a GG. Not surprising, as we are DESTROYING Darius’s attacks. He’s just doing them so poorly. We were outnumbered more than 10 to 1, but we are rapidly closing the gap as he’s just getting destroyed with his blundering units, while we produce/draft our own. Tactically, he’s just full of big dumb attacks. Attacking entrenched units, then leaving others out in the open for easy counters are a couple idiotic moves by him.
-ni

1934
And another GG arrives too! The event indicator notifies us that Darius has now switched to Police State. Maybe he should have thought about that BEFORE attacking? So… stupid.
-ni

1936
And speaking of dumb military mistakes. Darius again just can’t understand something… His city here was in range from my others with tanks and mechanized infantry. Yet he left it under-defended, while storing a gazillion aircraft.

Well… I use a spy to drop his defenses, and then ZOOM, in rush my fast moving units. And for super-cheap, not only do I take a city from Darius, but I just dealt his airforce a crushening blow.

So now, my plan is to continue taking advantage of his blunders, and try to take Darius piece by piece as we close the military gap.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1936.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:36 AM
1940
And we capture the city to the east of that one the same way. Though with a little help from our workers. You see, we were going to take it a little bit (light), so to make the numbers more in my favour, we used a couple workers to LURE out his defenders. This allowed us to run into his city cheaply & safely. And then we pounced on his silly defending units while they were out in the open.

Stupid.. stupid.. stupid!

Thatís not bad, swapping workers for your enemyís entrenched defenders. But another thing that sucks for Darius, is weíre off sabotaging more space ship parts. And now, the donkey that he is, will end up trying to rebuild them, when he SHOULD BE cranking out military units instead! LOL.
-ni

1942
Ok this is weird. I am tasked to spread Sushi to 7 new cities. I donít know what I will get but Iím not even going to bother. I donít own the sushi, so what is the point in doing my opponentís a favour? Or is that a mistake and I should try to do this quest at all costs? Iím not familiar with them, so I decided to just ignore this one.
-ni

1943
We captured yet another stronghold, this time in deeper territory. Remember, the AI likes to now whip-draft big stacks of defenders in cities. So use all your bags of tricks. We moved our stacks closer to one city to make Darius pull his troops in the wrong city. Then we shoot off to the weaker city and take it. By the time the AI knows it made a mistake, itís too late for it.
-ni

1944
Whoops, I forgot to look inside that stronghold from 43, letís peek in now shall we?

Ahh yes, what a nice catch! I wasnít paying as much details to the cities as I should have been! We get all the nice buildings as a good sized city would bring, but along withÖ


The Kong Miao +22g
The Kremlin
Rock N Roll (This one should have been mine to begin with!)
Mining Inc +4g

Oh yes, and did I forget to mention, due to an event our super-markets bring +1F?

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1944.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:37 AM
Alright, we’ve now also closed the power gap between us. Not a bad days’ work so far. But I’m especially happy I got that wonder back I missed earlier.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/power.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:38 AM
1945
Another GG Pops from all the warmongering. Mostly due to the burning units from Darius.
-ni

1948
And some more military genius by us, versus the stupidity of an Immortal AI, and another stronghold by Darius falls. A peek inside this one shows us some nice freebies too:

1 GG
Notre Damn
Military Academy
Creative Constructions +44g

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1948.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:40 AM
1953
Alright, we gained another tech, and I want to work on some space ship parts, so we’ll sue for peace with Darius for now (not that we have to). It’s ok, we’ll give him a break so he can focus on Pacal for now, while we move on to other things, then build up for the final punch.

In the meantime, he agreed to give us a World Map, and 860 Gold, with 3 more gold per turn. Sounds great, see you in another 10 turns Darius! Muahaha…

**

And now, I’m going to take my last artist I had in reserve, and combine him with a great prophet I have around, just for this occasion which is… starting my second golden age to rush through a ton of casings and thrusters, and then back to military buildup.
-ni


1961
A GE arrives. Now what to do? Can we found another corporation? If not, then just absorb him.

Notes: We’ve still been doing some more sabotaging to poor little Darius. He really must learn to build war units when he is planning and gearing up for war. Especially when he’s in the middle of one!
-ni

1965
A while ago, the Ottoman Empire made peace with Darius. Well, no problem! We’ll fix that now. His peace expired so for the cost of just Fission, Advanced Flight, and Fiber Optics, we’ll get him to bring all his vassals to bear on Darius, and also get a world map (do we need it?) along with 30 in gold (do we need that too?)

Note: The techs are nothing to us, we’ve been giving him and Pacal techs practically for free. Mainly because I want them to catch up to Darius, so that I can ride off at least two advanced civs with my internet. The problem is you need TWO advanced civs for that to work, lol.

The other alternative is to just wait until someone catches up to Darius, and spend the rest of this century sabotaging Darius’ space ship parts to Kingdom-come.
-ni

1967
Alright, we start war again and pounce, this time with modern Armour! Muahaha.

I was a little worried before when I saw darius was going to be the first to these uber-tanks, but he simply wasn’t making them in enough units to make them worth while. Also, with my capital cranking out 3-level promotion Mechanised infantry, that gives us two Combat & an Anti-Armour promotion. That’s more than enough to bring MA a bad day (but so would helicopters).

And just to be safe, we pretty much waited until Pacal made peace with Darius first. We didn’t want to pounce on Darius and then have him vassal right away to Pacal. So now he’s screwed, Muaha!

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1967.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:42 AM
And letís look inside this one shall we?

Eeek, donít these cities rock? Our bonus booty includes:


+1 GG
+2 GE
+1 Gsci
Scotland yard
The Hagia Sophia
The Taj Mahal
Broadway (This one should have been ours too!)
Military Academy
University of Stinker (Hard to believe we lost the race to this one as well)
Aluminum Corporation +24g

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1967i.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:44 AM
1968
Captured another city. No world wonders left worth capturing, so nothing to note here. Except, it helps give our cities some breathing room from culture-pressure.
-ni

1969
Capitulation!
For the price of a world map (there is something left to explore???) and 90 Gold (huh?) he offers to capit.

While we COULD just finish him off easily, I decided to accept terms. I am a bit worried because the Ottomans recently held a diplomatic vote and they almost won a diplo victory from the shear amount of population votes. Me, Daris and Pacal were off getting our cities/pop smashed so it looked like a close one.

Just to be safe, Iíll take the vassal, and let him and Pacal grow their cities up to higher vert for now in peace.
-ni

1972
Finally, a Great Spy pops from our NP city. Wow, we havenít had this happen since the BC era, and I was starting to wonder. Time to get a Scotland yard up, but there really isnít much point at this stage.
-ni

1977
Alright, instead of waiting for someone to catch up and discover genetics, Iím going to just steal that last tech myself from Darius. (Maybe I could have demanded it as a TRIBUTE from my vassal instead?) The reason is, while I am in no rush, I simply donít want to see another UN vote for a diplo victory take my own victory away now while we are at the final end. I want to shoot off to alpha century as fast as possible!

SoÖ we steal the tech with ease. Well not really. As you can see, despite having about a 50% chance, we ended up losing 7 spies in a row! What are the odds of that? I think failing every one of those is getting close to winning the lottery, but all through the game Iíve had stacks of 4 spies never work for me. I seem to always need 5 at least just to get a city to revolt on a 50/50 proposition. Maybe Iím just unlucky all the timeÖ or maybe itís another bug.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1977.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:44 AM
1981
And we launch!

Except for some issues. We don’t have a complete ship here! At least the casings are all in place (phew), but there are two cities that are still working on the last thrusters. However, I believe each thruster only saves a turn, and in that case, I might as well launch NOW, because I don’t need to risk some sabotage at the last minute. Even though we’ve been running counter espionage for ages. The good news is both heavy SS-engines are onboard, so it shouldn’t take TOO LONG to get to AC. Only 14 turns.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1981.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:45 AM
1983
We built the Manhattan project in record time. Why not build a few nukes in the meantime, to lower Ottoman population incase there is another diplo vote? Besides, the ace in the hole could come in handy during a sneak attack from someone.
-ni

1987
Alright, one last peek into our capital. An ICBM per turn always makes me feel happy. As for our settled specialists, letís see nowÖ

1 Gspy
3 Military Instructures
2 Engineers
3 Scientists
9 Prophets

Now, lets ignore the 1 scientist from the library quest, and ignore the engineer from our park-building thingy. Ignore the 3 generals from battles, and ignore the other captured great people from our other buildings.

This gives us 15 still.

But, we used 2 others to found corporations, brings us to 17.
And then, we used another great spy for a Scotland yard, brings us to 18.
But oh wait, 3 other great people were used for 2 golden ages.
That brings us up to 21 GPs we popped.

We actually would have got a free scientist from physics, but Darius just beat us to it (That damn tech master!)

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1987.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:46 AM
1991
Ok, it happened. Damn Ottoman Empire backstabbed us! I guess I deserved that. I KNEW he was up to something because he told me ‘We have enough on our hands’ when I tried to bribe him against Pacal. I wrongly assumed he was going to attack Pacal, but instead he went after me! Ughhh. Now in hindsight, I should have renewed my defense pact with Pacal but I didn’t. Oh well it doesn’t really matter. I lost a coastal city this turn, but easily gained it back with a ton of modern armour. I have 4 nations against me at this point, but it all really doesn’t matter. I arrive in Alpha Centuri in 4 turns from this point.

4 TURNS TO VICTORY!
-ni

1992
Nuke.. Nuke.. and Nuke.

We had built up a big stockpile already of pure ICBMs, and now just unleash hell all over. Unfortunately, Isabel and the Ottoman’s just got the SDI online in the nick of time (boy did they plan that invasion time perfect or what?) but Crazy-Monte hasn’t. That’s ok, nuke every one of his damn cities many times over. And don’t forget, sink all the convoys with nukes too that you see approaching.

3 TURNS TO VICTORY!

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1992.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:47 AM
1993
Another GreatSpy Arrives. Make that 22 GP’s popped.

And remember, Nuke, Nuke, and Nuke. Nuke stacks of convoys you see approaching….like these ones.

2 TURNS TO VICTORY!

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1993.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:49 AM
1994
Ohh did I forget to mention to nuke yet?

Note: Pacal finally finished all her pieces for the space-race. Though for some strange reason she didnít launch. So just for the hell of it, I sabotaged a critical piece from it anyway!

I suspect she didnít launch due to a bug. But it wouldnít have helped anyway. Regardless, the AI should launch anyhow, because if I lose my capital I have to restart over, but she/he doesnít. So again, stupid, stupidÖ stupid AI.

1 TURN TO VICTORY!


1995

OBSOLETE WINS A SPACE VICTORY!!!

Oh and looks like I lost a border city to an amphibious invasion. Doesnít matter though.

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/1995.jpg

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 12:49 AM
And who owns the best city?

http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/top.jpg

Julian Delphiki
Dec 20, 2007, 02:45 AM
Oh yes, and did I forget to mention, due to an event our super-markets bring +1F?

That event is called BtS expansion :)

Well done again :goodjob:

Killroyan
Dec 20, 2007, 07:31 AM
What a fight at the end. Intense. And more kabooms just to be sure that there wouldn't be a diplomatic victory. Nice.

Shadzy19
Dec 20, 2007, 08:27 AM
nice game , entertaining read .
very nice job .

Zanttu
Dec 20, 2007, 08:35 AM
Wow.. The power graph in 1944 is just amazing... The AIs power is about 10 times higher than yours when the war starts, and few turns later you're even... The fall in his power tells everything about the AIs warring skills. And proves the truth that never-trust-the-power-graph. Btw, cool game as always. It was nice to see you can pretty much pull it off without having straight access to stone/marble with your second city. Some really good war action, excellent game in many ways. You're the :king: .

iamnleth
Dec 20, 2007, 02:35 PM
Good job defeating Darius. Do you think you could pull this off on a fractal map?

Daedal
Dec 20, 2007, 03:29 PM
We had built up a big stockpile already of pure ICBMs, and now just unleash hell all over. Unfortunately, Isabel and the Ottoman’s just got the SDI online in the nick of time (boy did they plan that invasion time perfect or what?) but Crazy-Monte hasn’t.

The AI does suck at warring, but I've noticed that it always starts modern era wars on the same turn that it brings up SDI...at least when I have nukes. I guess that's a pretty easy check to program.

KMadCandy
Dec 20, 2007, 04:26 PM
Wow.. The power graph in 1944 is just amazing... The AIs power is about 10 times higher than yours when the war starts, and few turns later you're even... The fall in his power tells everything about the AIs warring skills. And proves the truth that never-trust-the-power-graph.

yup! that graph sure is something to see. my favorite part of the whole story is this sentence from obsolete:
Alright, weíve now also closed the power gap between us. Not a bad daysí work so far. But Iím especially happy I got that wonder back I missed earlier.
:lol: thanks for another of your tales. i get a kick out of reading them, you do so very many things differently than i ever would, but they work for you. which is part of why the game is so cool, there's no "one true way" to play.

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 11:41 PM
Good job defeating Darius. Do you think you could pull this off on a fractal map?

Fractals are the easiest of maps to win on, this is why I avoid them. There is no thinking out of the box needed. No tech masters on the OTHER continent to worry about. NO culture vicing beast, or diplo guy on that other continent spinning out of control that you SOMEHOW have to control.

Fractals generally turn out to be a warmongers paradise. There are some exceptions though. And many people just hit regenerate-map in those exceptions :P

you do so very many things differently than i ever would,

Now I’m curious Candy, what are all the changes would you have done? I assume almost too many to mention…

obsolete
Dec 20, 2007, 11:43 PM
Corrections:

I believe I forgot to mention in my Gperson-count the Scientist that was used to build an academy.

Also, I’m not too sure anymore on the space-ship flight schedule for boosters. And if I did know before, it’s probably all questionable again with the new patch. Does anyone know for sure? I guess a typical thruster engine saves between 2-1 turns. Not sure anymore what an SS-Engine did, but the last time I checked the results, I remember the turns saved from the SS seemed very little compared to its cost.

KMadCandy
Dec 21, 2007, 12:34 AM
Now I’m curious Candy, what are all the changes would you have done? I assume almost too many to mention…
oh, not specific changes in this game. well, one ... i'm hyper-obsessive about doing what i call "complete seafood checks" and stepping on each and every coastal square nearby before i settle a city. you can see why from that city in the south where the barb hid the seafood :lol:. i had that happen too many times, so now it's a habit.

i just mean i play completely differently. industrious is probably tied with protective for the trait i play least often, so i don't go on wonder-sprees like this; i should give ramesses a whirl for giggles soon because spiritual is definitely my favorite trait. i only like to go to war if i have tons of time to prepare, otherwise i'm really bad at it. you're not bad at war, to say the least!

you had almost no trees in your capital to start out with this game, so this example is really from previous games. even when you do start out with a bunch of trees, you chop them all so early compared to me! which is actually quite normal... everybody does that, i'm the bizarre one for keeping mine around. but i just look at people doing that and i go "OMG you'll get those green :yuck: toxic clouds, won't that gross you out?" i want pretty cities, i'm such a dork :crazyeye:. little stuff like that.

i lightbulb more great people than you do (who doesn't?). but i do settle more than most people do i think. i did that before i'd ever heard of you *giggle*. i learned the power of it in OCC games.

i had fun going over the screenies and trying to solve the mystery of the gems. when i figured it out, my first thought was "why the heck doesn't he know IW this late?" and then it was "why the heck would he need to, if he's not worried about military and not working jungle yet?". oh, and as long as you weren't making eiffel tower yet, i think it's the wonder that iron gives the production bonus for. swords, sure they have their uses sometimes, but wonders are shiny! :lol:

ABigCivFan
Dec 21, 2007, 01:49 AM
Don't mean to be the party pooper again but i cant help but to point out the obvious like many others already did.

If you start to claim those vital resource tiles like Cows, gems ASAP in the game; and start wars and grab more land earlier, you should be able to win these space-race games well in the 1800s (like most experts do) or 50-100 turns earlier than your current achievements.

I just got BTS today, would be interesting to try some new strategies.

Cheers.

Indiansmoke
Dec 21, 2007, 03:41 AM
Well done Obsolete...

Any win in Imortal is something to be proud of!!!

I am puzzled however how Suleiman delayed the launch so much. I play Emperor and when you have an AI cruising away in score and land.....they launch before 1950 at least and sometimes sooner.

1981 for the launch is way late in most situations...

Also do you think that your tech path could have been different to launch sooner?

obsolete
Dec 21, 2007, 07:58 AM
industrious is probably tied with protective for the trait i play least often,

Come to think of it, my last game I thought up of some interesting exploit for a protective civ, that I will probably try out sometime in the future. I actually got the idea from a highly promoted unit an AI had and then it just clicked-in. Of course, I’m not going to say protective rocks. It’s still at the bottom of the list I think but has some interesting characteristics for warmongers.

you chop them all so early compared to me! which is actually quite normal... everybody does that, i'm the bizarre one for keeping mine around.

Believe me, I HATE chopping them down, especially before math, but I often don’t have much choice. I know those green faces are going to come and I will do everything else in my power to remove them as tech/resources come available.

oh, and as long as you weren't making eiffel tower yet, i think it's the wonder that iron gives the production bonus for. swords, sure they have their uses sometimes, but wonders are shiny!

Well to be honest, I don’t care so much for iron to get swords, or knights, etc. Yes, I better damn well have it for the Eiffel, (and I’ll trade a LOT to get it during the Eiffel) but most importantly, I want/need it for my IW in my power-house. That gives another 50% boost, and turns into 100% if I can get coal along with it.



I am puzzled however how Suleiman delayed the launch so much. I play Emperor and when you have an AI cruising away in score and land.....they launch before 1950 at least and sometimes sooner.

1981 for the launch is way late in most situations...

Also do you think that your tech path could have been different to launch sooner?


Good question. He’s a new leader so I don’t know much yet on how he functions. When I saw him spinning out of control and getting too strong on his continent I felt (oh sh%t, what have I done?) But he never could tech a damn, nor could any of his vassals. Understandable, Brennus sucks for tech, and so does Monte. Isabella was too small to be a tech threat (isn’t she always?!)

I noticed he never had any cash on him. Could be a bug, or it just could be the AI was too stupid to know there was no point in keeping a million units around, since he owned the whole continent. That maintenance/supply theory would make sense why he couldn’t do anything.

I kept giving him techs hoping he could catch up to us, so I could get some use out of the Internet I built, unfortunately he just floundered so bad it was futile.

My own tech path didn’t really matter since I was just waiting for the AI’s to go faster so I could build the ship parts faster :P I can’t help it if they were so bad that game. But I admit, from the start my plan is to always slow down their teching, and I guess sometimes I succeed TOO WELL at it.

obsolete
Dec 21, 2007, 08:05 AM
Proof of Purchase:

Initial (http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/AutoSave_Initial_BC-4000.CivBeyondSwordSave)

Internet (http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/Internet.CivBeyondSwordSave)

Capitulation (http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/Capit.CivBeyondSwordSave)

Launch (http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/Launch.CivBeyondSwordSave)

1992 (http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/AutoSave_AD-1992.CivBeyondSwordSave)



Notes::
1992 isn't the last turn, but I guess I have to edit my ini file so the auto-save saves on every turn! I'll try and do that in the near future.

No Liberalism save, as I lost the race, 'Damn you Darius!'

Indiansmoke
Dec 21, 2007, 08:17 AM
My own tech path didnít really matter since I was just waiting for the AIís to go faster so I could build the ship parts faster :P I canít help it if they were so bad that game. But I admit, from the start my plan is to always slow down their teching, and I guess sometimes I succeed TOO WELL at it.

I wonder how you planed or did stop the AI from teching fast on a different continent?

...Or even at your own continent as you did not go to war, or grab land aggressively.

madscientist
Dec 21, 2007, 09:05 AM
Don't mean to be the party pooper again but i cant help but to point out the obvious like many others already did.

If you start to claim those vital resource tiles like Cows, gems ASAP in the game; and start wars and grab more land earlier, you should be able to win these space-race games well in the 1800s (like most experts do) or 50-100 turns earlier than your current achievements.

I just got BTS today, would be interesting to try some new strategies.

Cheers.

Just getting BTS today, enjoy. If you ever decide to do another walkthrough with the CIV thugs on a Pandea map make sure you include the Khmer dude, and Bouduca. You'll find out why soon enough!

Gliese 581
Dec 21, 2007, 09:59 AM
I like getting Suleiman, he's the ultimate backstabber. He'll go to war for a smile and a wink. It's best if you don't share borders, though.
He basically was my golden road to victory in my OCC. Could always count on Suleiman to keep the wars going.

obsolete
Dec 21, 2007, 10:53 AM
I wonder how you planed or did stop the AI from teching fast on a different continent?

That was easy, I kept them fighting with each other.

...Or even at your own continent as you did not go to war, or grab land aggressively.

Easy again. Deny trading them key techs that give them tech-jumps or leads, while giving them red-herrings (bad techs) to lure them into going up terrible tech paths.

Thereís a ton of other things, like forcing them to cancel trades with each other, etc. But it would take pages to go through every detail.

And nowÖ





Special Features!!

Lost clips salvaged from the cutting-floorÖ


War, and businessÖ
http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/clip_1.jpg

Some more bribingÖ
http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/clip_2.jpg

The Manhattan projectÖ
http://www.highpoly3d.com/civ/proof9/clip_3.jpg

kakitadairu
Dec 21, 2007, 11:57 AM
Hey Obsolete,

Can you post a Deity walkthrough at some point? I play on Deity and apply a lot of your strategies in my own strategy on that level...lots and lots of workshops...

I wonder what wonders you would go for on Deity, just doesn't seem possible to build all of them although I've gotten Great Wall/ Great Lighthouse/ Pyramids before. I've never played Ramsses though.

The only major difference between your philosophy and mine is with respect to coastal cities, I find trade routes and Great Lighthouse to be almost essential to tech fast enough. With Great Lighthouse my coastal cities immediately pay for themselves and change as long as I have trading partners.

Also its almost impossible to win Liberalism on Deity without bulbing. I still remember one game where I hit Liberalism in Five Twenty Five AD, only two turns ahead of Asoka, and I hadn't traded any tech to Asoka the entire game. I HOPE you can disprove me.

Cheers,

Dai

obsolete
Dec 22, 2007, 02:40 PM
On Deity, usually you have to trade the stonehenge for the GW. You can get one or the other, but not both. Unless of course, you use world builder to edit a stone resource under your capital's starting tile, but that would be an obvious cheat!

A big reason I usually avoid SoL on immortal is because it was so hard to get on deity, that I just decided to skip it on Immortal too because I felt I was doing a bad-habbit by trying. And everything else... DEPENDS.

Anyhow, once I get all these new things figured out, I'll get around to doing a deity, but I'm rather hesitant as I'm bound to get a bunch of critics out of the woodwork again. It is said that no one can win consistantly on Deity because it requires some luck. Which is probably true, and hence, anything I show in a walkthrough will be pointed out as requiring luck, and hence, we know how that is going to go over....

As for the Great Lighthouse, I never build it. Well ALMOST never. By a strange co-incidence, I did just recently in my next game. And it was only because all the planets and moons seemed to align to make it right for me.

I'll get to posting that walkthrough sometime shortly.

obsolete
Dec 22, 2007, 02:41 PM
Addendum:

I had been planning to test some corporation features in that game, and all-in-all, I’m not impressed. I found spreading them very hard. As dumb as the AI is, it is at least smart enough to run SP as soon as it’s available. This totally blocks me from doing anything. And if they aren’t running that, I kept running into AI’s running mercantilism, which also blocks me.

And once in a blue moon, when finally being able to spread one corporation into an AI’s city, not much happened. I had read that the AI loves to spam your corps for you, but that must have all changed in the latest patch as barely anything happened for generations. 20 turns go by, and finally you may see your civ jewlers may have spread to a new foreign city, Whoopie!

I guess they are fine if that is your fancy but, I just find them so restrictive. I can’t run SP if I want to run my corporations, and I can’t run my fancy Mercantilism either. I had rather fallen in love with SP as of late, it saves me a lot of money from each city’s costs, gives me hammer production bonuses, as well as food bonus, AND blocks the competitors from spamming their corporations into my city.

To be able to run corporations, just seems to sacrifice too many things for me on the civic choices.

Anyhow, I’m off to bed now…