From the turn tracker thread:

That is just the thing. I have no intention of restarting the attacks on you guys. I just need the warhappiness to avoid having to readjust everything in the realm. And you don't suffer anything from it unless you start losing stuff so as long as we have a phony war, I will continue. Should hostilities (apart from the odd ship attack which is the only joy I have presently) ;) restart I will have to drop this game. When we talked about what would happen should we drop, the problem was what to do with our current holdings. I agreed to continue but to keep a very low profile in game. So for what it is worth try focussing on the other teams.

I now make the following suggestion: The first team to remove another team from the game will inherit all BABE lands! what about that as a christmas gift. That is probably something to look forward to in time for christmas of 2009. :lol:

That is not a good proposal since it will not happen before you lose interest in this game Wotan. If you don't want to play any longer and if no one else on your team wants to play then perhaps you should consider retiring. I don't have much multi-player experience but I've heard that retiring will simply make all BABE cities and units go away. Not as good a solution as having an active BABE opponent but better than having a shadow BABE team. I appreciate your willingness to keep the ball rolling but the slow pace is killing the game for many of us now anyway.

If BABE retires would we allow transfers to other teams (similar to last games refugees) for any BABES that wanted to continue being active in the game?

good idea to discuss that.

I'm torn on the idea of accepting refugees - unless they are not able to directly play Babe's save. Otherwise, any Babes who want to continue in this game should do so from their own team.

But I imagine there aren't many Babes still around, in any case.

More pressing - what to do with Babe's towns and lands? We could declare Babe's home continent off limits to settlers (but not other units), or we could establish a nature preserve: no humans allowed under any circumstances.

Or we could just call it a 'newly discovered' landmass that is ready to be colonized.

Are any of these feasible? Are there better ideas?

If BABE retires would we allow transfers to other teams (similar to last games refugees) for any BABES that wanted to continue being active in the game?I doubt there is any player in the first place still active. Wotan is playing pretty much a solo game :lol:

I agree that retirement is probably the best of a list of bad options.

As most teams are probably aware, this current “phony war” has cost The Council several cities and some of our former territory.
I don’t think I’m revealing any strategy to say that at some point we plan to try to recapture that land. I’ll also venture a guess that Saber will try the same thing as soon as they get opportunity.

I think it’s both unfair and unrealistic to hold the game hostage to prevent anyone from attacking you.

Wotan – I appreciate the fact that you’ve soldiered on this long – but if it’s your intention to quit just as soon as this game heats up, then why not just do it now?

Let’s hammer out an agreement between the 4 remaining teams about how we want to handle the transition – and then finally release Wotan from his chains. It’ll be a Christmas present from the MTDG :)

I vote: BABE retires, and their mainland is declared the lost land of Atlantis and never open for settlement.

Or I’d be ok with allowing settlement under some kind of terms that allow each team an equal shot.

Just speaking for myself, not The Council.

To be honest, Babe just quiting and leaving their lands up for grabs for anyone who happens to sail along would be totally unacceptable for me. This would give such a huge advantage to the team that manages to get there first, that it would make all actions until now basically meaningless. The impact of having an entire extra continent for one team would simply ruin the game, in my opinion. IF, and only if, team Babe retires, I think the entire main continent should be declared a no-go area, and their smaller islands should go to the nearest team. But for now, I'm fine with Wotan playing the game, even if it does take some time every now and then.

We could allow each tribe to found one coastal city each on Babe's island. Restrict units on that island to workers only. Each tribe may claim only one of each luxury/resource. That would prevent the unbalancing land rush, while keeping the resources in play.

That's an interesting proposal Denyd.

So, depending on where each team put their coastal city - they might just have to use the worker-->colony to claim a new resource?

I kinda like that! :D

What if there's not enough of a given resource on BABE's mainland for all 4 teams to get one each? Should it just be totally off-limits then? Seems unlikely to be a problem either way. Hopefully Rik didn't just put 2 sources of rubber in the world... and both on BABE's mainland!

I hate to be a wet blanket – there are some interesting ideas here, but resignation by Babe raises more issues than just leaving 1 major island empty.

I think the main problem is that alliances have been formed and built up over the game so far. Some teams may have been counting on Babe to provide luxuries or lots of techs at some point in the game, while others wouldn’t be trading with Babe anyway. How can we possibly compensate Babe’s allies for the sudden disappearance of their friend?

I’m sure there will be other problems no matter what happens to Babe’s lands. We Saberites may not have been sailing fancy boats all over the world as long as some teams have, but our cartographers have made some educated guesses about what the world looks like. Presumably, Babe’s homeland has 2 luxuries – some teams probably already have 1 of those luxuries while others lack both. Some teams’ luxuries will suddenly be worth more than others.

What about other islands? I’m guessing there is a smallish island that only Babe could reach pre-Astronomy and some 1-tile islands near Babe – do we do the same with those as with Babe’s homeland? While resources are fairly distributed, I think it is probably well-known that continents lack some resources which can be found on certain smallish islands. Whether Babe’s minor islands are removed or settled will benefit some teams more than others and could hurt one or two teams severely depending on where the future resources are placed, and we won’t even know until we play another 50+ turns.

I don’t have any good answers. Any solution will be unfair, but the game has really been somewhat unbalanced anyway since Babe essentially stopped trying.

Thank you Mr. Wet Blanket :)

I think you hit the nail on the head right here:

I don’t have any good answers. Any solution will be unfair, but the game has really been somewhat unbalanced anyway since Babe essentially stopped trying.


Yes BABE resigning would mess up the whole diplomatic structure – and a host of other things – but I don't know about everyone else, but our diplomatic overtures have pretty much been met with a "gone fishing" notice anyway.

To me, the fact that a solution will never be 100% fair isn't a deterrent from doing the best we can – as the current situation is far from fair anyway.

While I'm not speaking officially for my team – I am pretty confident that we will not agree to be held hostage to a non-aggression pact with the team that has contributed heavily to the "Put The Council in Last Place" fund.

The day will come when someone attacks BABE – and then we'll be forced to come up with a solution if we want to keep the game moving.
IMHO – we might as well try to hammer out the best solution we can now – so we can either implement it asap – or at least have it ready to go on that distant day of infamy.

Another idea would be anti-refugees. 1 pr 2 people from each team joins Team BABE and vows never to talk about what their old team was planning to do.

That's probably the worst idea out there, of course.

To me, the fact that a solution will never be 100% fair isn't a deterrent from doing the best we can – as the current situation is far from fair anyway.



The problem isn't that any solution won't be 100% fair, it's that I think any solution will be horribly unfair (and I agree that the game already is unfair).

So far it's been generally Saberians and Councillors in this thread - I'd be interested in hearing if GONGers think that this game is worth continuing for them if Babe disappears - if they don't have a problem with it, then I'll shut up and mind my own business :) (for a little while... :mischief:).

You're right - GONG is likely to be the most adversely affected by a BABE withdrawal. Perhaps part of our solution can be to find a way to help compensate them? Maybe they get an enhanced share of BABE's former lands?

No matter what – we should all bear in mind – we WILL need a solution when Wotan quits when hostilities begin against BABE… and the hostilities will begin at some point.

Either we work out a solution, or the game ends when the first team attacks BABE and Wotan throws in the towel.

Auto-Teller's idea about the "anti-refugees" is interesting – but it's hard to see how that works very well. No matter who ends up running BABE, no matter what the new BABE team does it will almost certainly be either A) horribly biased, or B) perceived as horribly biased. Unless we can find some new person to come in and take over?

BABE really isn't that bad off from where I'm sitting. They've had some setbacks, but not more than one other team that was forced to spam out units during the critical build phase, or the other team that lost cities, land, and had to build a bunch of units and is still just recovering from War Weariness.
Maybe we can find someone willing to take on the challenge?

If not – let's get some GONG input on how we might be able to make things slightly more fair for them when Wotan eventually quits.

Just a personal note. I think we should let BABE retire.

Once this happens, we should form a 4 man advisory board. 1 person from each team comes together in a new thread to discuss the event and the aftermath. Several screenshots of all BABe lands (even those close to BABEland that may not have been settled) would be posted publicly. Discussions among the teams would ensue. An equal division of land (to include islands) would be agreed upon by the advisory board. If Gong gets first choice of land because of lux's, fine. But none of these lands can be settled except for one town (for a harbor) and colonies. A non-breakable treaty (punishable by a team's quick boot from the game) would make entering any lands not given to that team by the board forbidden. We all would know what was available on all land at the time of the treaty. What ever pops up later belongs to the team that has the land. A game of chance. Let's just roll the dice and get it over with.

Interesting solution Cyc. :thumbsup:

Just a quick note on the "unbreakable treaties" – I think it'd probably be cleanest just to add whatever solution we all agree on to our MTDG rule-set. It would thus become binding, just like the "no reloading" and "no peeking on others' forums" rules.

Best to avoid even calling it a "treaty" imo, so that we can avoid any nonsense about whether or not a treaty can be broken.

Semantics maybe. But just thought I'd toss that out there.

I agree. Ruleset is the better option.

IMO, Wotan should get it over with and retire team BABE as soon as we have a collective agreement on how to handle their retirement. I'm less than impressed by the collective hissy fit that most BABEs threw and quit the game when their attack on SABER failed. Wotan gets props for soldiering on to allow the game to continue, but I can't get the image of 5-year-olds whining "Wah, wah, we didn't win right away, so the game is ruined!" for BABE as a whole out of my head.

Once BABE resigns, I favor leaving the 11-tile islands open on a first-come, first-settled basis. For the main BABEland, each remaining nation is entitled to settle one city anywhere on the landmass (or one-tile islands).

Once any team enters the modern age (or some other suitable trigger occurs), BABEland is fully opened to additional settlements.

Standard disclaimer: I gathered no input from my fellow FREEthinkers before writing this post.

Babe should retire. NO humans on babes land. Because of late game airbases

I'll continue for a while. The diplo situation is in fact the most important factor for me to continue. Just disbanding everything is not a good option. Unfortunately the situation is not good no matter what the final solution will be. But I assure you we will definitely use the ruleset in place when terminating the position.

EDIT: The merits of this thread are rather dubious. There is basically only one team and one team alone that will be able to influence any decision regarding the future of Babe. As Chamnix said the in game diplomacy basically restricts who can and should influence this. I will discuss any changes to my game involvement with such team(s) but probably not pay too much attention to the wishes of other teams.

With all due respect to Wotans efforts to keep the game running, I can't find it very satisfying to let him/BABE drop out of the game whenever he wants to (depending on the ingame situation).

From my very personal point of view it should be like NOW(within a few turns) or NEVER.

Last time I checked we were not indentured servants here at CFC. You have full control over your choices and I expect you to grant me the same rights Calis.

Would it perhaps be possible to find someone to play for Babe when Wotan no longer wants to/can, like Chamnix did for Team Loco in the civ4 MTDG? There are plenty of good civ3 players in the GOTM forums, I'd be willing to bet that one of them could be convinced to play the game out.

I do NOT speak for the Gongers, but I for myself pretty much lost interest in this game. Our diplomacy situation is at least "boring". Furthermore I am a warmonger at heart, so anyway this game is not very exciting for me. I follow it, but honestly I do not mind how this all ends. Just MY personal feelings about this game.

On topic : Any solution is bad. Whether Wotan continues playing a solo game (which is absolutely not in the spirit of the game) or whether he quits. It will be unbalanced and spoiled, but IMO Wotan should be released from playing this. I think it is unfair to commit him for another year playing a game that is no fun for him.

The whole game will have a bad taste after it ended anyway. There will be people saying "If BABES would have/would have not ..., bla, bla, bla" There will be much complaining.

The merits of this thread are rather dubious. There is basically only one team and one team alone that will be able to influence any decision regarding the future of Babe. As Chamnix said the in game diplomacy basically restricts who can and should influence this. I will discuss any changes to my game involvement with such team(s) but probably not pay too much attention to the wishes of other teams.

Actually, Wotan, the way this all plays out is only in your hands if you continue to play. If you choose to abandon the game, you cannot make any claims on the way the remaining four teams move forward. It's simply not up to you. You give up that privilege when you quit. If you disagree with that, I suggest we put it to a poll of all the players on all the teams.

Abandoning a team game is not at all like leaving an inheritance where you can attach strings to your property and plan for its future. If you cared about the future of your property, you wouldn't abandon.

On a more constructive note:
I agree with Cyc that a 4 person council be convened to negotiate a way forward for the 4 remaining teams. We should try and have an agreement in place by the end of January, when Ginger_Ale and Rik return.

Once the Panel is formed, only the team reps should post in the UN thread, leaving personal comments to the private team forums.

On a personal note:
I kind of like the idea of each team being allowed one settler and x workers. I like the roll of the dice aspect to it.

Actually, Wotan, the way this all plays out is only in your hands if you continue to play. If you choose to abandon the game, you cannot make any claims on the way the remaining four teams move forward. It's simply not up to you. You give up that privilege when you quit. If you disagree with that, I suggest we put it to a poll of all the players on all the teams.

On a more constructive note:
I agree with Cyc that a 4 person council be convened to negotiate a way forward for the 4 remaining teams. We should try and have an agreement in place by the end of January, when Ginger_Ale and Rik return.

But as long as I do play the turns I would appreciate not being told by anyone from another team what to do with BABE assets. Of course I cannot make any claims what happens after I leave the game but that has never been the issue. I have never even hinted at how BABE assets should be dealt with after I am no longer part of the team.

So what I do until I am no longer part of the game is a BABE issue and I would reciprocate by saying: It is simply not up to you, or for that matter anyone from any other team. But leaving the game to a panel where everyone, friends and foes, have equal influence is a solution I would regard as a sellout towards any BABE friends in the game.

It is a tricky situation as I guess we are all aware of. Whatever BABE does will have repercussions on the game. Having entered into a dormant mode in the game has already influenced it I guess. And as Markh said whatever happens there will be a lot of conpiratorila discussions after the game end based on what if scenarios etc. I still think the absolutely best solution would be to put the game to sleep altogether.

I would appreciate not being told by anyone from another team what to do with BABE assets.

Maybe I wasn't very clear in my post. I was not suggesting limits on what Babe can or can't do up until the time Babe decides to quit.

But seeing as how Wotan (who I assume speaks for all Babes at this point) has already stated publicly that Babe will withdraw from the game as soon as playing the save becomes a little more involved, Babe has indeed already decided to quit - it seems like the other 4 teams are just waiting to find out precisely when. So, though the save is being passed on when it comes around, Babe isn't really part of the game in the same way the rest of the teams are.

Therefore it is practical and necessary for these 4 teams to have a discussion about how to continue the game beyond Babe's involvement. And that discussion should be occurring now, even though there is still nominal participation from Babe. Without all 5 teams playing the game to win, it's really not that interesting for the rest of us who are still playing to win. :old:

I still think the absolutely best solution would be to put the game to sleep altogether.
I can't disagree more completely. The best resolution is for Babe to keep playing, playing to win. That's not possible with the current membership of Babe.

So maybe a recruitment drive in a couple of the other Civ3 forums is in order - to bring in some fresh players to take the burden off of Wotan's shoulders. It worked for the Civ4 mtdg (:hatsoff:to chamnix :))

I'll make an effort to try to find a replacement. I think the best solution would be if BABE could remain in the game. I am just not sure I would be doing the game any favours by playing BABE poorly due to time restraints should activities increase the amount of time I need to allocate to the game.

My guess is that there aren't too many civ players that would be interested in a peaceful builder type game. The game was well intentioned however it did not leave much room for diplo, war or any of the things most people play civ for. If Wotan needs someone else to hit enter for Babe I would do it.

I am just not sure I would be doing the game any favours by playing BABE poorly

Just my personal opinion, you would be doing the game a favour that way. At least the game will be played that way. And poorly is relative, I have played some turns for team Innovia in the civ4 demogame, and I'm pretty sure they were poor too in comparison with some of the other teams :D. That hasn't hurt the fun we've had as a team in that game though.

If Wotan needs someone else to hit enter for Babe I would do it.

Please do so. The main problem with the game now is we take so long to play a turn. Who knows, as the game progresses BABE may get interested again. I would like to point out however that if BABES want fighting and / or diplo maneuvers they will get neither by conducting phony wars or not talking to other teams.

Good, so we have a promise of hitting enter and sending the save to the next team within 24 hours each time, correct? If the game stalls again, will you resign?

If Babe leaves, and that is their decision to make, I (not Team FREE) don't really care for any of the options mentioned so far.

Instead of just resigning and disappearing, let Babe gift cities to each of us. Babe draws up a list of cities in sort of order (alphabetical, city size, date founded; just a list organinzed by some feature) and then goes down the list, gifting the cities to the other teams in Turn Rotation order. That would look something like this:

City 1: Council
City 2: Saber
City 3: Free
City 4: Gong
City 5: Council
City 6: Saber
City 7: Free
City 8: Gong
etc....


This list could be submitted to the Admins for their approval, if needed.

After the cities are gifted and accepted, then Babe resigns, and one city disappears.

Is this too radical a suggestion?

Last time I checked we were not indentured servants here at CFC. You have full control over your choices and I expect you to grant me the same rights Calis.

Maybe I had a bad choice of words. I beg your pardon for that.

Of course I do not intend to cut your rights, but yet I feel that it is rather difficult for the other teams to plan any ingame action not knowing WHEN team BABE is going to quit. If I understood your comments correctly this point is definately going to come...we just do not know when!? :crazyeye:

After the cities are gifted and accepted, then Babe resigns, and one city disappears.

Is this too radical a suggestion?

I think Wotan is reserving the right to do what he wants before resigning. Need I point out this could mean BABE gifts everything to whomever it wants to before bowing out?

Hmm.

Maybe we are trying to solve the wrong problem.

Here is my take on it, and I admit I'm trying to be a mind reader.

I think Wotan wants Babe to die honorably, but he does not have a comfortable way to do that.

Now, I've not met Wotan before this game, and even then our contact has been limited. Mostly, I've just seen his posts. And so, I could be very, very wrong.

Wotan has kept playing the game when he clearly does not want to. He could have already resigned Babe out of the game. But he has not. So, I think if we provide a way for Babe to gracefully bow out of the game, Wotan will take it.

What we have done so far is focus on what to do after Babe is gone. Wotan doesn't care about that. He wants to know how Babe can leave and not screw up the game for the rest of us.

Care to comment this Wotan?

I still think the absolutely best solution would be to put the game to sleep altogether.

I'm another one who completely disagrees. Many people, including myself, still find this game interesting, and damnit, we just want to keep playing, not worrying about whether the game will get held hostage by people who don't like the direction the game took in the first 80 turns.

the problem is that just hitting return isn't going to cut it for BABE. There is a fair chance that hostilities will heat up between BABE and The Council, since we are still at war - and if weariness for BABE heats up, then BABE cities start rioting or things need to be changed.

I believe that if and when that happens, Wotan will stop playing (which, I assume, means BABE retires) and all discussion of what happens to BABE becomes meaningless.

I am reasonably sure that this game will NOT stay peaceful forever, so BABE will have either do something or retire. It's not a question of just hitting enter for the next 20-100 turns or so.

What we have done so far is focus on what to do after Babe is gone. Wotan doesn't care about that. He wants to know how Babe can leave and not screw up the game for the rest of us.

In a nut shell CommandoBob. I absolutely do not want to leave the game in a way that change the power balance too much. Leaving will definitely do that no matter how I try to avoid it. But it is extremely important for me that any friends we have in the game does not find themselves in a position where they are feeling abandoned.

That was why my suggestion to just let BABE be left alone felt like it was a good plan. The four off you can fight it out without having to consider what happens in BABE territory. There were some discussions about what to do with BABE territory if it was to be regarded as wasteland or if it was to be open season for all to go after.

But no matter what the final solution turns out to be it cannot be a solution that is neutral vs all the rest of the teams. Previous actions and diplomacy in the game must have an impact on the solution BABE finally go with. If that is what you call holding the game hiostage so be it but I am not abandoning friends (or foes for that matter). ;)

In a nut shell CommandoBob.

Thank you.


I absolutely do not want to leave the game in a way that change the power balance too much. Leaving will definitely do that no matter how I try to avoid it. But it is extremely important for me that any friends we have in the game does not find themselves in a position where they are feeling abandoned.

...

But no matter what the final solution turns out to be it cannot be a solution that is neutral vs all the rest of the teams. Previous actions and diplomacy in the game must have an impact on the solution BABE finally go with. If that is what you call holding the game hiostage so be it but I am not abandoning friends (or foes for that matter). ;)

It sounds like you are saying that Babe's leaving needs to reward Babe's friends and punish Babe's enemies, but not enough to mess up the game.

For instance, say that Babe was ready to leave and had 10,000 gold that Babe wanted to give away. Dividing that 4 ways would give 2,500 to each team. But since you would want to help your friends, you would want to give them more. You could give 5,000 to each friend and nothing to the enemies. However, those gifts would unbalance the game, which is a bad thing. So the final allocation might be 3,000 to each friend and 2,000 to each enemy. The balance of power does not change greatly by these gifts and you have managed to do something good for your friends.

Is this the type of solution you are looking for?

With 4 remaining teams there is a chance of having a 2vs2 situation and that would in itself help balancing the game. Add a "drastic" solution and have Rik edit the gamesave and turn all BABE lands into water. Then it is a 4 palyer game with two "sides".

OTOH this recent discussion has rekindled my interest in the game somewhat. I think the solitude and lack of communication to be strong factors influencing my lack of enthusism. Then again I am stubborn as hell and hate quitting. The main problem right now is that I have let the position slip over the past 20 turns. The campaign vs. Council should have seen massive landings on several sites about 10 turns ago. Those forces now stand idle in the midst of BABE lands. Well, you never know, a few incidents like this and I mightstill be here next christmas. :rolleyes:

Uh, no. The main problem is it takes this game a week for one turn on average. It's really nice that we have rekindled your interest in the game. This will bring a special twinkle in my eye for the holidays.... until i remember that the BABE team is just playing another round of mental ping-pong while our admin is away.

Jeez, Wotan, be a man about this. Be a soldier and do your dooty. Just retire and stop stretching this mess out as long as you can. There's a game to play and personally, I'm not in the mood to watch some pissy, indecisive team ruin it.

You HAVE kept the game limping along in your detached way, and I appreciate your efforts, but enough is enough. Just retire and get out of the way. No more excuses, no more whining, no more strings attached, no more delays. Please.

Stop being so bloody abusive Cyc. You are currently my main objection to this game. I have now made a decission as to what to do. You just accept whatever outcome that will give. BE A MAN ABOUT THAT!!!!!!!!!! Calling someone pissy is definitely beyond what I will ever tolerate from someone. I would really like this guy to be officially warned about his abusive behaviour towards other members of this community. I have little understanding why he is a member of this community since he does not behave in a way I would assume to be adult behaviour.

Oh, good. You've made a decision. Thank you.

And I didn't call you pissy. I called the BABE team pissy. I kissed your your butt as much as I could in that post, Wotan. I think a lot of people have been doing that (just my opinion). I will consider myself warned by the honorable Wotan.

And I'M your current main objection in this game? Please! We've probably never spoken to each other before this thread. Stay off drugs, Wotan...

Warned for flaming. Wotan, too.

And I didn't call you pissy. I called the BABE team pissy.

If you have not noticed until now Wotan IS Team BABE. There are no others left. He plays all for himself. Wake up.

No, you wake up, markh. There was a whole BABE team. Where were you? Sleeping? What happened to the team, markh? You seem to have the answers. Tell me.

Maybe I misinterpreted the situation from the first BABES's resignation thread, but many of them clearly stated that they are not interested to play the game under the current setup, so from what I've read and understood it is just Wotan left who is playing the turns without much interest just to keep the game going. Maybe I am totally wrong and then of course I apologize to you.

markh, you pretty much hit it on the nail. Cyc, it would be nice if you tone down a little, remember it's the season of love :D

Yes, THERat, you're right. markh is correct. Thank you for agreeing with me. No need to apologize markh. The reason for this forum is to express our views and opinions. Although I may have over reacted to your nasty little comment to me.

Season of Love? Ha. Maybe for children and old people. This is merely the Season of shopping.

I had to tune out of BABE due to RL issues, and when I came back it was a ghost town. Something about the outlook for it being a couple of hundred turns before anything interesting happens. Some people like to watch paint dry and others don't.

One thing I should make very clear. My teammates are not absent out of spite, or ill will toward the game, or for any other less than honorable reason. They agonized over ways to keep the game fun and thereby try to stay active.

Some of you know from DemoGame experience, it is very hard to spend your precious play time on an activity which isn't fun for you any more. We could have just unilaterally exited the game in an unbalancing manner, but we have too much respect for our fellow players and sense of honor toward the game's concept to do that.

It's a problem with an unintended consequence of the map design. We should take this information forward into the next game, to ensure it doesn't repeat.

All is not lost, there is another possibility for turnplayer -- me. But be forewarned, I take several business trips a year, and don't always have Civ or time to play after long hours of work. I can't abide people who complain too much about delays. Reminders, yes -- complaints, no.

Off to the BABE forum to find out if tag teaming with Wotan is feasible.

I have to agree with ThERat. Cyc, your cynicism and rudeness even bother me - and I'm highly critical of team BABE's treatment of this game.

We're all frustrated by the situation. I'd be happy if all the stupid drama would die down and we could just get on with the game. That doesn't excuse us from our obligations of common human decency.

All is not lost, there is another possibility for turnplayer -- me. But be forewarned, I take several business trips a year, and don't always have Civ or time to play after long hours of work. I can't abide people who complain too much about delays. Reminders, yes -- complaints, no.
Here! Here!

:agree:

I, too, have RL issues and cannot always get a turn played inside of 24 hours. The cost of getting a turn played quickly is to sometimes alienate the Charming Mrs. CommandoBob, and that is not too healthy.

So while I enjoy being a Turn Player, even if by default, I rather like the fact that the turns (now) take a few days to make the loop. It means my Civ 3 disk won't disappear (again). It also means I can concentrate on my own SG and SGOTM 13.

Actually, I just made those posts so everyone could spend more time criticizing them and judging me, rather than concentrating on the real problem. Anyone else want to want to waste time telling us who rude I am? We've got plenty of time. Dig in...

You really need to take a deep breath and remember that it is really just a game. They are doing this for you're fu right now not theirs. So stop being an ass.

Timely post, cubsfan. Then again, you are a cubs fan...

Heh...I'm a Sox fan so as much as it thrills me to bash a cubs fan just lighten up in this this thread or there will be problems.

The Babes will do what it takes to make this game continue so relax...

this thread is the most intersting thing to happen on CFC for me in months :D

The Babes will do what it takes to make this game continue so relax...

We're not just interested in it continuing but continuing at a decent pace. Are you now volunteering to be a back-up turn taker? If Wotan continues on as primary turn taker and both you and DaveShack act as backups when Wotan can't play then we could return to our earlier good progress. You and DaveShack (and Wotan of course) would have our gratitude.

I agree with donsig. But it's been three days since we've heard anything, except for the people who feel they need to police this thread. I mean I haven't said anything against the BABE team in three days, but the Gestapo feels it needs to fill the thread with comment after comment about me.

Hey I chilled three days ago, but you guys can't let it rest. I took me chill pill, people. If you could be a little less self-righteous and mind your own business, or at least channel all that wasted energy ('cause what you say doesn't mean a hill of beans to me) into trying to help the problem, we might get somewhere. Threaten me all you want. You can get away with it, I can't.

If Wotan continues on as primary turn taker and both you and DaveShack act as backups when Wotan can't play then we could return to our earlier good progress. You and DaveShack (and Wotan of course) would have our gratitude.
Here, Here! :)

If Wotan continues on as primary turn taker and both you and DaveShack act as backups when Wotan can't play then we could return to our earlier good progress. You and DaveShack (and Wotan of course) would have our gratitude.

Indeed! :worship:

But the Babes must still commit to playing the save even if playing it becomes more involved. I'm refering here to Wotan's remark that he'll stop playing if it requires MMing and such. I'm not going to tell a team how to play their save - if they just want to hit enter and not MM or move unit, I don't really care. But we all agreed to this ruleset:
All teams are required to play the save within 24 hours, unless they request an extension...


That's really all I care about, to be honest. :old:

If Wotan continues on as primary turn taker and both you and DaveShack act as backups when Wotan can't play then we could return to our earlier good progress. You and DaveShack (and Wotan of course) would have our gratitude.

I know that I would like to see this game continue. If BABE could get another turn player, many of our problems would be solved.

Maybe the Civ4 MTDG could return Chamnix's favor, and send some of their players to BABE to help, if necessary.

And again, I would like to thank Wotan for continuing to play.