Greetings CFCers!

I have a predicament, which I am going to put to you lot, as you're all pretty intellectual chaps.

I have a bit of a militaria hobby, which spans the last century.
Today, I was given as a gift a cap which someone bought for me, thinking it was a regular Wehrmacht cap, but I, being more informed than them, immediately recognised the big sod-off skull and crossbones on the front; SS.

Despite the initial shock, I decided to research it a bit; I'm not as well versed in the SS as I am in other aspects of the Nazi organs, and I wanted to make damn sure that it had nothing to do with the Totenkopfverbande, or the 3rd SS Division.

I'm reasonably sure that it isn't now, since a combination of my own knowledge and research shows it to be an NCO's Engineer's cap dating to a scant number of months in 1940.
In any case, I think i mihgt get rid of the cap because of its connotations.
The thing that's confusing me is this:

The metal eagle on it is unusual. For a start, it's large, a lot larger than eagles would be on army caps.
Secondly, and most oddly, the eagle faces left rather than right.

Would any of you people be able to help me out with this? It's partially to better myself intellectually, and also just to know the story of this intriguing, albeit gruesome item that's come my way.

Thanks in advance!

Can you take a picture with a digital camera of some sort?

If you don't want it, you can mail it to me!

My grandfather brought back a lot of Nazi paraphernalia in 1945. I believe he has a gold armband with an eagle and a swastika that faces left.

He also brought back a sword. Did any Nazi's carry swords?

EDIT: Yup, the eagle is facing leftward.

If you need a picture of it lemme know.

If it has a 'deaths head' on it then it probably belonged to a concentration camp guard :(

If it has a 'deaths head' on it then it probably belonged to a concentration camp guard :(
Actually, the Death's Head was used throughout the SS. It's just that all concentration/death camp guards were SS soldiers, and so wore the Death's Head.

[Edit: Fixed "guards". ("Cards"? How the hell did I end up with that?)

My grandfather brought back a lot of Nazi paraphernalia in 1945. I believe he has a gold armband with an eagle and a swastika that faces left.

He also brought back a sword. Did any Nazi's carry swords?

EDIT: Yup, the eagle is facing leftward.

If you need a picture of it lemme know.

Swords were used for ceremoial purposes, mostly by the Luftwaffe, I beleive.
The SS also used ceremonial daggers.

The gold armband your grandfather brought back would be a political one, as right-facing eagles denoted the armed forces, and a left one denoted political positions.

If it has a 'deaths head' on it then it probably belonged to a concentration camp guard
As Traitorfish said, all branches of the SS, as well as Panzer formations used the Totenkopf insignia. The branch of the SS responsible for guarding the camps were the 3rd SS Division Totenkopf which formed the Totenkopfverbande.
From what I've researched so far, it's unlikely to be one of them, since it's a crusher cap used by combat formations, and it's from 1940, before the Holocaust started.

Actually, the Death's Head was used throughout the SS. It's just that all concentration/death camp cards were SS soldiers, and so wore the Death's Head.

I thought that was reserved for the Totenkopf division.. I guess I should brush up on my WWII history.

The official German Eagle never had his head to the left side. However the Nazi party OTOH had ever "their" eagle to the left. As the SS was the Nazi party army their eagles had the head to the left.

Adler

why do you want to get rid of it?
its part of history, so if you collect things from ww2 era why no ss hats?

Yes, that's true. It is part of history. You can't deny it. It (unfortunately) happened. You only have to be aware it won't ever happen again. As such it has to remind you.

Adler

why do you want to get rid of it?
its part of history, so if you collect things from ww2 era why no ss hats?

I guess, it's just the thought of a totenkopfverbande uniform is kinda sickening.

The people in the Nazi Army were no different than most other human beings, it should be no more disgusting than most other soldiers outfits (excluding Canada). They were brainwashed citizens, just like most of you are. You lie to yourself when you think the German people, humiliated after WWI, were somehow less than you and your soldiers during WWII. Keep the damn hat is my point. :)

Well keeping the hat will probably bring you bad luck, try donating it to an WWII war museum where they can put it to better use....selling it will only make you profit from something bad, unless the money is good and you really need it, if not....

Well keeping the hat will probably bring you bad luck,

I don't think nonconformist is too superstitious, but who knows. :p

He also brought back a sword. Did any Nazi's carry swords?



Sword!
If i remember well, SS used to donate swords, knives and rings to best officers.

Can you sell me that sword on Ebay? :)

Can you sell me that sword on Ebay? :)

Unless you can pay me 200,000, in Euros, I will not. It's a family heirloom now.

Unless you can pay me 200,000, in Euros, I will not. It's a family heirloom now.

And if i enter in your family...

And if i enter in your family...

I'll disregard the whole family heirloom thing.

Bad karma - I wouldn't keep it. I'm a firm believer that what you choose to retain in your possession (even if it's in a box away in your attic) has some kind of effect on your personal psychology. I.e., if you know in the back of your mind that you are a man that is hanging on to a hat such as this, you'll think of yourself slightly differently, than you would otherwise... even if you don't consciously realize it.

In the end, it's probably just a stinkin' Waffen SS hat - one of untold thousands. It's just a piece of material with some metal trinkets on it. Question is; how do you feel about it? Seems like you're not to pleased with it. So, I wouldn't add another skeleton to the psychological closet. We've all got them, and the idea is to get rid of them - not add to the collection.

I'd much rather be a man that doesn't harbor III. Reich (especially SS) paraphernalia, than otherwise. But, that's just me. I'd let it go. I wouldn't want the spirit of the man who wore it (or his Kameraden) visiting my residence, reminiscing about how they 'almost' 'coulda' conquered and enslaved the world.

If you are a collector, you should keep it. It is a historical item, no matter how sinister it is.

I can't believe that some people wouldn't keep it, but I guess everyone has different opinions. :) I don't believe in Karma or anything like that.

Bad karma - I wouldn't keep it.
How is that bad karma? It's not like HE was in the SS...

I can understand why you wouldn't want to keep it. If I had something that was associated with the SS I wouldn't keep it. Some people who have been affected by the SS/Nazi party don't really want to be reminded of their past, or their family's past.

I can understand why you wouldn't want to keep it. If I had something that was associated with the SS I wouldn't keep it. Some people who have been affected by the SS/Nazi party don't really want to be reminded of their past, or their family's past.

Those who forget...doomed to repeat...blah, blah, blah, I think you know the drill on that one.

If it were me, and I were a collector of historical military items, I would keep it. Yes it has negative and evil associations, but it itself is just a hat that would add value to an already valuable historical collection.

However, since I do not collect historical military items, I would sell if it came into my possession. By itself it would most likely just offend someone (like my Jewish friend) and I would not value it enough to keep something like that.

You have to view it in regards to your situation. I imagine anyone who would see it at your place knows of your hobby and would most likely not be offended by it. Well, not much anyway.

totenkopfverbande
Jesus I just translated that.
dead head federation
:eek: I don't know how you would figure out if it was a totenkopfverbande hat but if you find out it is, well. I wouldn't get rid of it but I would lock it up somewhere. This would be stressful to me.
Bad karma - I wouldn't keep it. I'm a firm believer that what you choose to retain in your possession (even if it's in a box away in your attic) has some kind of effect on your personal psychology. I.e., if you know in the back of your mind that you are a man that is hanging on to a hat such as this, you'll think of yourself slightly differently, than you would otherwise... even if you don't consciously realize it.

In the end, it's probably just a stinkin' Waffen SS hat - one of untold thousands. It's just a piece of material with some metal trinkets on it. Question is; how do you feel about it? Seems like you're not to pleased with it. So, I wouldn't add another skeleton to the psychological closet. We've all got them, and the idea is to get rid of them - not add to the collection.

I'd much rather be a man that doesn't harbor III. Reich (especially SS) paraphernalia, than otherwise. But, that's just me. I'd let it go. I wouldn't want the spirit of the man who wore it (or his Kameraden) visiting my residence, reminiscing about how they 'almost' 'coulda' conquered and enslaved the world.
Good post. It would probably screw up my mind with it hanging around. Now to think of it I would find a "home" for it somewhere else where it would be "wanted".

Totenkopfverbände= Dead skulls units.

Adler

Skull or "dead man's head (lit)" Formations


notice that "totenkopf", though literally translating to "dead man's head" is just the german word for skull (though you would call it "schädel" in a medical context [e.g.: "schädel fraktur"], a word that also refers to "head" in general) and has much more neutral connotations than you'd think...

Verband {m} (pl.: verbände)

union
society
syndicate
federation
organization
organisation
med. bandage
med. plaster
med. dressing
math. lattice
sports association
constr. bracing

its the noun steming from "verbinden", which means "to connect", "bind", "tie", "merge", "affiliate", "bandage", etc...

This is the armband my gramps got back. The medal is one he was awarded during the service, ignore that.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3717/temp2hy6.gif

This is the sword.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/6987/temp1br1.gif

Anymore info Noncon?

Pretty cool stuff, Godwynn.

Yes, interesting. I'd hold on to that stuff. The only thing I've got close to it is a Jap Samurai sword. :smug:

The people in the Nazi Army were no different than most other human beings, it should be no more disgusting than most other soldiers outfits (excluding Canada). They were brainwashed citizens, just like most of you are. You lie to yourself when you think the German people, humiliated after WWI, were somehow less than you and your soldiers during WWII. Keep the damn hat is my point. :)

No amount of brainwashing could convince me to starve and gas unarmed civilians. Sorry. You fail

How is that bad karma? It's not like HE was in the SS...

The same reason you wouldn't want to own Charles Manson's baseball cap. These people were murderer's for the most part. They should not be honored, or revered, or anything but forgotten

The same reason you wouldn't want to own Charles Manson's baseball cap. These people were murderer's for the most part. They should not be honored, or revered, or anything but forgotten
I don't see what that has to do with karma...
Besides, what good does forgetting crime do? Stuff like this the Holocaust needs to be pounded into the skull of every single person on the planet, so that they never, ever allow that kind of crap to happen ever again. That's why Germans, as a society, constantly remind themselves of their past crimes, so that they never repeat them. "Never again", y'know?

I don't see what that has to do with karma...
Besides, what good does forgetting crime do? Stuff like this the Holocaust needs to be pounded into the skull of every single person on the planet, so that they never, ever allow that kind of crap to happen ever again.
I've gone by that policy, but it need not be pounded in again and again unless the poundie has really got no brains. I've gotten depressed from pounding myself. And besides, some may say its happening now. :cringe:

If you don't want it, you can mail it to me!

No send it to me! YOu should never destroy historical artifacts.