The Ancient Mediterranean has finally been updated and released for BTS 3.13 compatibility!

TAM BTS v0.74:
Thanks to Kael, the Imperial Era show-stopper has finally been put to rest. The purpose of this release was to fix that infinite loop bug, and it has finally been done. Thanks Kael!
-The Sapper unit has been removed from the game.

TAM BTS v0.73:
The oversized buildings have been remedied so that they're not so huge (you won't see that monstrous henge anymore). A few of the buildings still aren't quite to scale, but at least the game is playable.

The GameFont files have been updated, so that now religious icons, corporation icons, and all other icons will display properly.

Some more unique buildings have been added, and a few civilopedia entries have been completed. The following changes have been made to Siege Units:
-Ram has -5% city bombard
---Assyrian Ram has -10% city bombard
-Catapult has 50% withdrawal and a -15% city bombard
---Roman Siege has 60% withdrawal and -20% city bombard, plus free Accuracy promotion
-Fire Catapult has 50% withdrawal, +50% City Attack, causes more collateral damage, but cannot bombard city defenses
-Sapper has -8% city bombard, no longer invisible

Additionally, an infinite loop bug which would stop the game in its tracks has been singled out and fixed. The game would go into an infinite loop whenever a sapper got stuck in the same tile as an enemy unit. Now that the sapper is visible, it will just die, and that infinite loop won't happen.


The Imperial Age infinite loop still occurs, however. It is very difficult to identify exactly what is causing it, and thus hard to track down. We are working hard to eliminate, though, and hopefully will do so in the coming versions.

Enjoy this bugfix release and give us your ideas on how to improve TAM.

TAM BTS v0.70:
While it's far from perfect, and still needs work, this is an initial release of a working product. I worked especially hard to deliver it by Christmas, and I finished with this deadline, although I'm a little late in posting (I got carried away for a few hours "testing" :D).


A few things to consider about TAM for BTS:

1) All BTS additions have been included in TAM. This means: Great Generals and Great Spies are now included, Improved Forts are included, Forest Preserves are made available with the Civil Service technology, colonies and blockading is also present. Events are in, and while they may be basic now, they will be expanded for the ancient Mediterranean.

2) Corporations have been included in the form of stops on the Silk Road trade route. Now they are only placeholders, but they will be expanded into full functionality.

3) Currently only the BTS civilizations that appear in TAM have unique buildings (Carthage, Rome, etc). All factions will have unique buildings pending agreement and creation from the TAM development team.

A few more new things:
-Levee with Bridge Building
-Maoi Statues with Boat Building
-National Security Bureau with Empire
-Intelligence Agency with Espionage
-Lapis Lazuli bonus added (to be used especially for corporations)

I've also compiled a DLL from Bhruic's patch as a base for allowing up to 30 civs in TAM (currently fitting our 24 CIVS + room left over for 6 colonies), and I've tweaked Jorgen_CAB's better city-founding AI to place more emphasis on rivers. Multiple natural religion spread has also been included.

This release only comes with the TAM standard size map with 16 civs, but you can be sure that the other maps will be converted, and I'll personally deliver a scenario or two along the way.


In any case, it's here, so please download and enjoy!

You can download the latest version from the following site:

http://tam.arbolingo.com/downloads

Map Pack is now available as a separate download, currently providing 4 TAM maps.

Ok, the version is up. Just go to the usual TAM download page, and you'll find it there!

http://tam.arbolingo.com/downloads/

Fantastic, I have been looking forward to this mod for ages! Thank you very much

I've been looking forward to the mod, so I tried it, but I couldn't load!

I extracted the files to the c:\firaxis\Civilization 4\Beyond the sword\mods folder.

I then went to load the game. I went to Advanced, load a mod, TAM. So far so good.

When I went to a 'normal' map, I got that map, not an earth map. So I tried to load a scenario, hoping there would be a map. I tried the new map that was there (sorry, don't remember the name.) It crashed.

So, I may be able to play it on a map script that is random, but I can't get a TAM map.

Best wishes,

Breunor

Just double-click any of the TAM maps in the publicmaps folder.

outstanding !! Downloading now Shqype, expect trouble from me soon ;)

I've been looking forward to the mod, so I tried it, but I couldn't load!

I extracted the files to the c:\firaxis\Civilization 4\Beyond the sword\mods folder.

I then went to load the game. I went to Advanced, load a mod, TAM. So far so good.

When I went to a 'normal' map, I got that map, not an earth map. So I tried to load a scenario, hoping there would be a map. I tried the new map that was there (sorry, don't remember the name.) It crashed.

So, I may be able to play it on a map script that is random, but I can't get a TAM map.

Best wishes,

Breunor

The maps you may have in your Public Maps folder are the older CIV4 savegame version, and they won't work with BTS.

With this initial release only 1 map was converted, and that was the Standard Mediterranean 16 civ map. In the mod directory (aka in the folder named TAM) you will find the WBS file. Double-click on it to launch the scenario, and the mod will load into the screen where you can select your civilization. That's all it takes. :)

The maps you may have in your Public Maps folder are the older CIV4 savegame version, and they won't work with BTS.

With this initial release only 1 map was converted, and that was the Standard Mediterranean 16 civ map. In the mod directory (aka in the folder named TAM) you will find the WBS file. Double-click on it to launch the scenario, and the mod will load into the screen where you can select your civilization. That's all it takes. :)

Ok, that works!

I played about 30 turns as the Hittites. Awesome!

Best wishes,

Breunor

What stuff is missing compared to TAM Vanilla 2.01?

Nothing less compare to 2.01 Vanilla

a w e s o m e

there is a "tiny" problem with the Ziggurat of Marduk (Mesopotamian Gods Holy Shrine):

The maps you may have in your Public Maps folder are the older CIV4 savegame version, and they won't work with BTS.

With this initial release only 1 map was converted, and that was the Standard Mediterranean 16 civ map. In the mod directory (aka in the folder named TAM) you will find the WBS file. Double-click on it to launch the scenario, and the mod will load into the screen where you can select your civilization. That's all it takes. :)

I've done just that and I get a CTD after picking my civ and trying to start the game.

there is a "tiny" problem with the Ziggurat of Marduk (Mesopotamian Gods Holy Shrine):

LOL! A very tiny problem indeed.

Why aren't the city status icons showing? Like, unrest, trade route access, etc?

The Parthenon has the same size problem as the Ziggurat. But cooler, even though I don't know how to capture a screen shot is the Henge. It takes up the space of FIVE cities!

ALSO, I am gettign a CTD with this save. I turned off animations, removed combat zoom, and did quick combat, but it still crashed. Any thoughts?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/61530/Arminius_AD-0413.CivBeyondSwordSave

I'm getting CTD when I've discovered bridge building.

The Parthenon has the same size problem as the Ziggurat. But cooler, even though I don't know how to capture a screen shot is the Henge. It takes up the space of FIVE cities!

ALSO, I am gettign a CTD with this save. I turned off animations, removed combat zoom, and did quick combat, but it still crashed. Any thoughts?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/61530/Arminius_AD-0413.CivBeyondSwordSave
just hit the print screen button and an image will be in your C:\Documents and Settings\User\My Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\ScreenShots folder. be sure to post a screenshot. i kinda wanna see this henge of massive scale, but don't want play a game, cuz this version still seems kind of buggy.

I'm getting CTD when I've discovered bridge building.

Your CTD is unrelated to bridge-building. I just discovered Bridge-Building and the game is still going fine.

Why aren't the city status icons showing? Like, unrest, trade route access, etc?

Problem in the GameFont.tga file; I fixed it now and the icons are showing. The fix will be included in the next update.

Your CTD is unrelated to bridge-building. I just discovered Bridge-Building and the game is still going fine.

There is something with bridge-building, because I have same problem, when I discover it.

My save game CTD problem appears to be discovering Empire. I changed my science so it took another turn and viola no crash. Next turn discover Empire, CTD.

Might be the new buildings added? Levee with bridge building and Security bureau with Empire?

How do I put a screenshot in my message so I can show Henge and Parthenon?

My save game CTD problem appears to be discovering Empire. I changed my science so it took another turn and viola no crash. Next turn discover Empire, CTD.

Might be the new buildings added? Levee with bridge building and Security bureau with Empire?

Nope, they work fine. It's something else.


One thing I discovered is an infinite loop python error for any tech from the imperial era. It could be related to that.

jefmart1, I am aware of the Henge and Parthenon model sizes and I've already fixed them. It's not necessary to post a screenshot, but you do so by pressing the "Print Scr" key on your keyboard. It is sometimes bundled with "Sys Rq" above the Insert and Delete keys.

You can put a screenshot in your message by uploading an attachment to your post, or uploading your screenshot to imageshack.us and posting the link for forums.

:)

:thumbsup: Glad to see TAM made it to BTS!

:newyear:

Thanks, Shqype!

Just wanted to add my two cents here

Great to see the mod in BTS. Couple things first there is something strange with the religious icons on a city they seem a bit out of whack I have one city that founded the meso gods but has the Olympian symbol as well as the proper symbol.

also How does vassalage work here seems to me it would be great for the setting but tech is needed for it?

Thanks

Nice things !
Here is another weird graphic (no idea of what is the building, it's from an IA city) :
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6432/scshotab1.th.jpg (http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scshotab1.jpg)

I have same ctd with road building, understood it's about empire techs. I switched tech as to pursue this game.

Nice things !
Here is another weird graphic (no idea of what is the building, it's from an IA city) :
http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6432/scshotab1.th.jpg (http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scshotab1.jpg)

I have same ctd with road building, understood it's about empire techs. I switched tech as to pursue this game.

The graphic problem is the same one I had, it is from the wonder 'the Henge'. To be honest, it isn't funny, I pretty much had to stop playing, I couldn't see my troops or the enemy's. I finally went into the worldbuilder and deleted it to continue the game.

Best wishes,

Breunor

I just downloaded this mod. It was great! I really look forward to seeing more of it. However, I have a question about religions. What is the most effective way to spread religion. I can't figure out where the missionaries are.

No missionaries in TAM.
Only christianity uses missionaries.

No missionaries in TAM.
Only christianity uses missionaries.

So what is the most efficient way to spread your religion. I've also noticed that the AI are very distrustful and it is very hard to get open borders. They seem to all have the same personality. I'd really like a Monty or Ragnar.

The graphic problem is the same one I had, it is from the wonder 'the Henge'. To be honest, it isn't funny, I pretty much had to stop playing, I couldn't see my troops or the enemy's. I finally went into the worldbuilder and deleted it to continue the game.

Best wishes,

Breunor

You did not need to do that. Just go to the Assets/XML/Art/Civ4ArtDefines_Building.xml file and change the scale of mesopothamian, greek and animism shrines.

You did not need to do that. Just go to the Assets/XML/Art/Civ4ArtDefines_Building.xml file and change the scale of mesopothamian, greek and animism shrines.

Yep, it's been addressed and included in the next update.

I think I'll just release it later on instead of waiting to fix the CTDs were having ... it's proving very difficult.

So what is the most efficient way to spread your religion. I've also noticed that the AI are very distrustful and it is very hard to get open borders. They seem to all have the same personality. I'd really like a Monty or Ragnar.

Natural religion spread is the only way. Having the high tier Holy Buildings will also increase natural religion spread.

Hi,

I loved TAM in CIV 3 so I tried it for Bts.

Good fun, however there are a few problems I've seen:

1) Oversized wonders - (has been mentioned further up) Some brown blob, a Ziggurat and a couple of temples are too big.

2) I have a crash issue. I'm not sure what is causing it. It happens on turn 319 AD 398 and I've looked to see if anything is built - like a wonder on that turn and I can't see anything. But the crash is consistent even from reloads 4-5 turns back

Thanks a lot for the work on TAM-BTS,
I can confirm the crash on turn 319 at year 398 AD,

fr.gr. Hans

What technologies are you guys / the AI researching at the time of the crash?

I suspect it is one from the imperial age.

What technologies are you guys / the AI researching at the time of the crash?

I suspect it is one from the imperial age.

I have an infinite "waiting fo other civilizations..." phase between turns instead of the crash but I assume it is the same bug. I''ll try to help you out on this issue.

In my case Military Training at turn of realization,
both Hiram(Normal) turn 319 at year 398 AD
and Vercingÿtorix(Epic)turn 507 at year 417 AD,

fr.reg. Hans

Jouda, that's what it is. It's not a CTD because the game never crashes, it just engages in an infinite loop and you're forced to shut down the game manually.

Hans, thanks for your report. This is all the same bug that has to do with the Imperial Age. We're working on finding the cause and fixing it, but with no CTD and thus no dump to analyze, it's very difficult.

In the meantime, it would be appreciated if you guys helped us with polishing issues ... missing text entries, benefits that should be improved/nerfed, new things to add or take away, etc. While this bug may stop us at the Imperial Age, everything before that is still available to criticism and thus subject to improvement!

Do some religions spread faster and further then others?

Do some religions spread faster and further then others?

Yes. The later in the tech tree the faster the religion spread. Some of these differences aren't much ... one religion spread may be 40 and the next religion might be 45 and the next religion 55.

Keep in mind that with each religion present in a city it becomes increasingly hard for another to spread naturally. If you have 1 religion in a city, the second religion will have a 50% less chance to spread, and the 3rd will have a 33% less chance to spread, etc.

We may need to slightly adjust these values to make it a little easier for the 3rd religion to spread, but back in those days not many cities had multiple religions in them. Maybe 2 or 3, but not beyond that.

I seem to have hit the infinite loop problem much earlier. Its 300BC in the Classic age. I as Gaul have just finished researching Horse Riding. Rome has just finished Boat Building. Other civs have Boat Building but Gaul may be the first to research Horse Riding. Unfortunately, I only have enough spy points to see what 3 other civs are researching. I reloaded and switched away from Horse Riding and it still went into the loop.

In the meantime, it would be appreciated if you guys helped us with polishing issues ... missing text entries, benefits that should be improved/nerfed, new things to add or take away, etc. While this bug may stop us at the Imperial Age, everything before that is still available to criticism and thus subject to improvement!
- I noticed the cereal mill graphic on some cities when viewing from outside (normal map view), like a religion inside the city, while when you enter the city i couldn't notice anything related to this (even after capturing the city).
- still a lot of lesser siege engines used by the ia (ram...). I felt there was less than before, but still "too much".
Example : a stack with 2 axemen with 5 siege engines attacking a quite well defended city. Nonsense.

With Smithies every unit is updated in weapons every turn and every time it goes into a city with a smith.
Not a problem, but is a bit silly.

Another issue is the defence bonuses don't seem to be very significant. A single ram can clear out most AI defences in 1 or 2 hits.
I think the siege weapons damge should be reduced, and leave it so it is still possible to storm the walls.

I'll check the techs being researched.

It is bridge building.

I checked it, by changing my research to soemthing else and my turn completed no crash.

Press Ctrl+Z in-game to allow yourself to see the whole map, what every faction is researching, and even to peer inside cities to check their production.

Thanks a ton for making this! I remember playing it on Vanilla Civ 4, while there's some things that need polished on this version, it's certainly a big step forwards.

Looking forward to the 1.0 release.

TAM BTS v0.73 Now Available!

The oversized buildings have been remedied so that they're not so huge (you won't see that monstrous henge anymore). A few of the buildings still aren't quite to scale, but at least the game is playable.


The GameFont files have been updated, so that now religious icons, corporation icons, and all other icons will display properly.

Some more unique buildings have been added, and a few civilopedia entries have been completed. The following changes have been made to Siege Units:
-Ram has -5% city bombard
---Assyrian Ram has -10% city bombard
-Catapult has 50% withdrawal and a -15% city bombard
---Roman Siege has 60% withdrawal and -20% city bombard, plus free Accuracy promotion
-Fire Catapult has 50% withdrawal, +50% City Attack, causes more collateral damage, but cannot bombard city defenses
-Sapper has -8% city bombard, no longer invisible

Additionally, an infinite loop bug which would stop the game in its tracks has been singled out and fixed. The game would go into an infinite loop whenever a sapper got stuck in the same tile as an enemy unit. Now that the sapper is visible, it will just die, and that infinite loop won't happen.


The Imperial Age infinite loop still occurs, however. It is very difficult to identify exactly what is causing it, and thus hard to track down. We are working hard to eliminate, though, and hopefully will do so in the coming versions.

Enjoy this bugfix release and give us your ideas on how to improve TAM.

See the 2nd post of the thread for the latest download link.

Shqype, what about moving all the Imperial Age technologies to the preceding era (not sure of its name - clasiccal?)? That bug is definitely tied with the Imperial Age technologies, sometimes causing CTD, sometimes the loop. It's not just Bridge Building, I've had the same with Divine Right.

I've noticed one more minor bug. When in the Imperial Age, all the roads switch to modern asphalt roads which looks a bit awckward :-)

I've got more suggestions and minor bugs to report but none of them is a show-stopper. I'll write down a list and post them here later.

Thanks for your effort again! TAM rocks :egypt:

Edit: wow, my 100th post! Let me celebrate! :beer:

Great idea as a temporary fix, I never thought of that.

But ideally we'd like to not be restricted to the Classical Era. There is something that's wrong with the Imperial Age, and we'd like to fix it.

I'll check into making those changes and report my findings.

I've noticed that after researching an imperial age tech (well, after adding it in the worldbuilder) there are no technologies visible in the tech advisor screen. Hope this can help a bit.

Fantastic :) Nice to see progress is being made on the boring stuff (bug hunting). I'm not sure if you're aware already, but one of the civs (I didn't note which one in my last game) in 0.70 had no city names. Not one of Rome's neighbours, I only noticed it late game.

Edit : A small question. The title music... I recognise it, but I can't remember what film it's from...

I believe they said "Last of the Mohicans"...

TAM BTS v0.73 Now Available!

The oversized buildings have been remedied so that they're not so huge (you won't see that monstrous henge anymore). A few of the buildings still aren't quite to scale, but at least the game is playable.


The GameFont files have been updated, so that now religious icons, corporation icons, and all other icons will display properly.

Some more unique buildings have been added, and a few civilopedia entries have been completed. The following changes have been made to Siege Units:
-Ram has -5% city bombard
---Assyrian Ram has -10% city bombard
-Catapult has 50% withdrawal and a -15% city bombard
---Roman Siege has 60% withdrawal and -20% city bombard, plus free Accuracy promotion
-Fire Catapult has 50% withdrawal, +50% City Attack, causes more collateral damage, but cannot bombard city defenses
-Sapper has -8% city bombard, no longer invisible

Additionally, an infinite loop bug which would stop the game in its tracks has been singled out and fixed. The game would go into an infinite loop whenever a sapper got stuck in the same tile as an enemy unit. Now that the sapper is visible, it will just die, and that infinite loop won't happen.


The Imperial Age infinite loop still occurs, however. It is very difficult to identify exactly what is causing it, and thus hard to track down. We are working hard to eliminate, though, and hopefully will do so in the coming versions.

Enjoy this bugfix release and give us your ideas on how to improve TAM.

Thanks for fixing the Henge. I know people sya it is 'easy' to modify the files, but I'm really not into that. I'll try the mod again!

Best wishes,

Breunor

I know you all think every user here is computer literate, but ....

Do we create a new folder for this, and delete TAM 0.70, or do we download it into our TAM fiolder which now has the 0.70 files?

Best wishes,

Breunor

Either should work. Delete the TAM folder from (assuming you have it at the default location) C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\

Your game will crash when you research any Imperial age technology though.

---

I've just played a nearly complete game. I'm afraid I did rather too well, and as a result it got a bit boring. There's 100 turns left, and I've now got the job of conquering the map.

I played as Rome, and used the terrain to create an impenetrable defences to the nw and ne of Italy, as I assume everybody would do. I did intend to turtle up in there, and come out with a pack of highly trained troops, and conquer all. However, by the time I'm ready to do that.... it's going to be a walkover.

There's a few things that have caused this.

First off... Churches and Cathedrals are providing piles of cash. Way too much. It seems as if Churches, Cathedrals and The Nativity all give me 20 gold per turn per city.

Diplomacy and trade are non existant. I'm so far ahead on tech, and my economy is so out of whack I can give anything away, but even with that, and even with other christian nations trade just won't happen. Dido and Hammuburai are the only ones who will trade with me, and even then it's only small things. I think it's just the case that some nations have their thresholds set too high for resource trading. I can, and I like open borders and maps and tech being tough, but resource trading seems a bit weak.

Some units are a bit off... here's some thoughts.

Collateral damage from a horse archer that with 5/5 experience has a 90% withdrawal chance is pretty sick. When an enemy stack turns up, all I need to do is throw a few catapults at it (which stand a high chance of escaping), if I have any, and then follow with mounted troops. Before you know it, the enemy stack is whacked.

Archery units are very weak, until the bowman. I think this is intentional since they don't require resources... if that's right then it's fair enough. However, the first two could maybe use a little touch.

Sappers are now crap. A national unit, you can only have 1 of them, and they're no better than any of the other units. Perhaps they're now outdated and have been replaced by spies, and can get removed? Or perhaps they could cause a low amount of collateral damage, but get a 100% withdrawal. Or perhaps they could not be thrown out of enemy territory, and get their invisibility back, that way you could get a head start when you declare war on someone, and have your siege unit already there.

Armoured javelin throwers don't have an upgrade path, the spearmen seemed to suit my needs better, however it was javelins that I got from drafting.

I like the idea of siege engines, allowing troops on the offence to heal up. However, the AI does seem to over favour them. I think it thinks they're catapults - but they can't attack a city to cause damage.

There were 3 times that I nearly got my defences broken. The first time they got broken but the reinforcements retook the city. The 2nd and 3rd time I was drafting 3 per turn to get troops desperately to my NE border city.. I was quite impressed with the AI being able to wage war effectively.

Christianity spreads pretty well, I got it earlier than normal, and it's showing at 31%, which means it's in the majority of cities. All the other religions are at 10-15%, with animal the lowest. Religions appear to be working well.

I modified the technologies XML in order to play, I just changed every Imperial age tech to a classical age tech. No crashes.

This is it altered, if it saves anyone the bother.

Rename this file by removing the .txt from the end (it should then end .xml)

Replace the existing TAM one with this one. If it's installed in the default directory, then this is where to look.

C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\TAM\Assets\XML\Technologies

I still get a CTD with that new Tech file instead of the old.

Using a save game that was just the turn before the crash.

See the 2nd post of the thread for the latest download link.

Main link on TAM Site correctly updated now.
You may download BTS 073 HERE (http://tam.arbolingo.com/downloads)

I am getting a CTD with 073 whenever I am about to get the tech Divine Right.

Is it not possible to play as the Persians or Medians in this version?

Replacing the current CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos.zip with the attached one (once you unzip it) should resolve the Imperial CtD issues.

Version 0.74, which includes Kael's fix, is now available for download.

Splendid! Thanks a lot, Kael & Shqype...

:goodjob:

There is a bug with "we love the Leader", the text is not displaying correct.

and i would like to know if there is a huge map of the mediterran where i can play on marathon, or can i only play with random map?

Excellent, thank for the fix, TAM gets even better with BTS

Have you considered anything for the slave trade ?

It was fundamental in the ancient times economy. Caesar is supposed to have bring back several hundred thousands slaves back to Rome. Maybe upon city conquest slaves could be captured and used either as kind of specialist, or one-time worker to build laetifundia (slave farms) or other slave-made improvements ?

Just idea caus I dont know if it feasible.

and i would like to know if there is a huge map of the mediterran where i can play on marathon, or can i only play with random map?

Download MapPack from TAM Site (goto post #2)
;)

Download MapPack from TAM Site (goto post #2)
;)

thanks, i will do it :)

Exactly where do I extract the Animated Leaderhead files? There is more than one art folder.

Is it possible for temples to help increase the spread rate of the religion?

Exactly where do I extract the Animated Leaderhead files? There is more than one art folder.

Move the LHs EXE file into your "Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword" folder and extract it there.

Move the LHs EXE file into your "Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword" folder and extract it there.

Thank you. Sorry I didn't see the thread you had on my question.

I can make it to the game speed screen. I pick one and it starts to load then crashes every time.

Any ideas?

I waited till the 1st bugfixes, but although the TAM screen loads fine (and looks fine, and sounds fine) I get a crash on the choose civ screen, even if I try double-clicking a map. Could it be related to the LHs (which are supposed to appear there, but don't) or improper installation of these?:confused:

Could it be related to the LHs (which are supposed to appear there, but don't) or improper installation of these?

Did you install animated LHs addon?
If "yes", then remove all, reinstall TAM without animated LHs, try to play and let a feedback here.

Here's what I think the issue is. Keep in mind that I don't use animated LHs, and I'm not sure if the animated LH is a just a addon or another mod with animated LHs in them.

If it's the latter keep in mind that the animated LH version is not up-to-date.

Anyway, here's where I see a potential problem.

The "official" TAM is usually installed in the My Documents => Mods directory, where the animated LH version is usually installed in the Program Files => Mods directory. If they have the same name then this should cause conflict.

The "official" TAM is usually installed in the My Documents => Mods directory, where the animated LH version is usually installed in the Program Files => Mods directory.

I "usually" install TAM in
Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods
folder. What My Documents => Mods directory means?

Nevertheless Animated LHs is an addon not related to TAM BTS version.
It simply replaces TAM\Assets\XML\Art\CIV4ArtDefines_Leaderhead.xml and adds a single packed art file under TAM\Assets folder.

C:\Documents and Settings\[User Name]\My Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword\MODS

I deleted TAM, reinstalled the main TAM into BTS/Mods, and it still crashes as soon as I click ok past the game speed screen (right when the game should start loading).

I did not install the animated LHs nor the public maps.

The Last of the Mohicans theme is great tho! I really enjoy it up till the crash : [

I deleted TAM, reinstalled the main TAM into BTS/Mods, and it still crashes as soon as I click ok past the game speed screen (right when the game should start loading).

I did not install the animated LHs nor the public maps.

The Last of the Mohicans theme is great tho! I really enjoy it up till the crash : [
jcb,

do you have the latest BTS patch from Firaxis installed

Thats what it was. I didnt know there was a BTS patch. I dl'ed the path, installed it, and it works fine now.

great mod and thanks for the help!

Enjoying BTS V.74. Playing on the standard map with 16 civs. I down loaded the map and extracted to the civ4/BTS/public map folder only to find that the map was in an assets sub-folder. I just moved the map file into the public map folder and played it as a scenario once the mod was loaded. I assume there will be other size maps in the future. Is there a preferred path for the map file(s)?

Only bug I've seen so far is that there are no city names for Kolcheans.

Enjoying BTS V.74. Only thing I've seen so far is that there are no city names for Kolcheans.

Davenbak,

Thanks for the bug report. I will look into it. Sometimes the text doesnt recognize the non alphabet figures as text. Ive run into that with a couple of the other civs as well.

Davbenbak,

Just a note to let you know, I had fixed that bug, but it didnt make it to the version you downloaded. It should be on the next. Thanks again for the notice.

Graywarden

Love the mod but later in the game everything gets sooo slow due to the number of units...any solution you guys know besides go buy a new comp?

thanks

jcb,

This is a VERY early version of TAM BTS. In reality it is only a working engine of TAM Vanilla exported to BTS. It took us three versions to get the CTDs to stop. Be patient, getting a working engine was just the first step in the MANY things that are on the planning board.

We have already made note of the massive amounts of units being created by the AI, which is a big change from TAM Vanilla. The game mechanics are very, very different from BTS to Vanilla so we have a lot of work tweaking things back inline with original MOD design (in that regard).

As we go along with these early versions, do what I had to do and play at an easier setting to help balance things, until we get things back inline.

After a whole game it works fine, just a few points
- is it normal to have timeline with monthes ?
- siege tower graphic is an axeman
- few buildings allowing artists. Cultural victory becomes really trash (was too easy a few versions ago)
- i appreciated a lot to have various roaming barbarian units (including war elephants and so on !), even if barb units stationed in cities stays weak.

Congratulations and thanks !

baptiste,

thanks for the input, and as i mentioned in my last post (see below-this thread), this is just the first version without major crash issues after importing TAM vanilla into BTS.

There are a number of graphic button bugs, that will be fixed next version.

Currently TAMDEV is having a major discussion on altering the Civics Structure as you see it now. Expect changes there.

Various Win Paths are also being discussed, expect those to be better as well.

Wonders/Effects/Great People will have some alterations too.

Again think of this as the foundation stone of what TAM BTS will be, not is at this point

Happy Tamming

Another secondary point :
- worker icon becomes like archer's icon while entering imperial age

Also : do you plan to include vassal states ?

baptiste,

we have the worker graphic unit bug on the list, you will also notice in the imperial age, that the workers will be "modern/industrial" workers. these will be fixed next version.

yes vassal state win will one of many win options

Played to within 40 turns to go as Rome on Warlord setting. I had researched all techs by 400ad. I'll play a more challenging civ at a harder level next. A few things to point out as well as a few thoughts:

1) Quinremes are still pretty big scale wise. Triremes won't upgrade to Quins?

2) Espionage tech gives a TXT_KEY_TECH_ESPIONAGE_QUOTE when researched.

3) Heavy Cav has no bonus against cavalry promotion?

4) Would it be possible to make roads brown, like dirt roads, to better distinguish them from Imperial roads?

5) Add Theocracy to government type. Get rid of Oligarcy as it is just a shade away from being either Plutocracy or Aristocracy.

6) Hero units should be able to upgrade.

Loving the mod, it was one of those I never got around to trying and finally have now with the BTS version. So far only bugs i've seen aside from the unit icon ones are some TXT_KEY stuff, with city celebrations and a civs greeting in diplomacy. Also thanks for making a standard sized map, its nice to have something playable on my comp.

Thanks for all the hard work and I look forward to future versions, for now i'll just get back to preparing for war with Rome. With me as Dacia we carved up Germany between us, and are now waiting to see who makes the first move.

I encountered a minor bug --

I was Egypt, and went to peace with Nubia. My army was transported out of Nubain territory, EXCEPT for my sapper, which remained in place.

Best wishes,

Breunor

The Ancient Mediterranean has finally been updated and released for BTS 3.13 compatibility!

TAM BTS v0.74:
Thanks to Kael, the Imperial Era show-stopper has finally been put to rest. The purpose of this release was to fix that infinite loop bug, and it has finally been done. Thanks Kael!
-The Sapper unit has been removed from the game.

TAM BTS v0.73:
The oversized buildings have been remedied so that they're not so huge (you won't see that monstrous henge anymore). A few of the buildings still aren't quite to scale, but at least the game is playable.

The GameFont files have been updated, so that now religious icons, corporation icons, and all other icons will display properly.

Some more unique buildings have been added, and a few civilopedia entries have been completed. The following changes have been made to Siege Units:
-Ram has -5% city bombard
---Assyrian Ram has -10% city bombard
-Catapult has 50% withdrawal and a -15% city bombard
---Roman Siege has 60% withdrawal and -20% city bombard, plus free Accuracy promotion
-Fire Catapult has 50% withdrawal, +50% City Attack, causes more collateral damage, but cannot bombard city defenses
-Sapper has -8% city bombard, no longer invisible

Additionally, an infinite loop bug which would stop the game in its tracks has been singled out and fixed. The game would go into an infinite loop whenever a sapper got stuck in the same tile as an enemy unit. Now that the sapper is visible, it will just die, and that infinite loop won't happen.


The Imperial Age infinite loop still occurs, however. It is very difficult to identify exactly what is causing it, and thus hard to track down. We are working hard to eliminate, though, and hopefully will do so in the coming versions.

Enjoy this bugfix release and give us your ideas on how to improve TAM.

TAM BTS v0.70:
While it's far from perfect, and still needs work, this is an initial release of a working product. I worked especially hard to deliver it by Christmas, and I finished with this deadline, although I'm a little late in posting (I got carried away for a few hours "testing" :D).


A few things to consider about TAM for BTS:

1) All BTS additions have been included in TAM. This means: Great Generals and Great Spies are now included, Improved Forts are included, Forest Preserves are made available with the Civil Service technology, colonies and blockading is also present. Events are in, and while they may be basic now, they will be expanded for the ancient Mediterranean.

2) Corporations have been included in the form of stops on the Silk Road trade route. Now they are only placeholders, but they will be expanded into full functionality.

3) Currently only the BTS civilizations that appear in TAM have unique buildings (Carthage, Rome, etc). All factions will have unique buildings pending agreement and creation from the TAM development team.

A few more new things:
-Levee with Bridge Building
-Maoi Statues with Boat Building
-National Security Bureau with Empire
-Intelligence Agency with Espionage
-Lapis Lazuli bonus added (to be used especially for corporations)

I've also compiled a DLL from Bhruic's patch as a base for allowing up to 30 civs in TAM (currently fitting our 24 CIVS + room left over for 6 colonies), and I've tweaked Jorgen_CAB's better city-founding AI to place more emphasis on rivers. Multiple natural religion spread has also been included.

This release only comes with the TAM standard size map with 16 civs, but you can be sure that the other maps will be converted, and I'll personally deliver a scenario or two along the way.


In any case, it's here, so please download and enjoy!

Its not working. I'm having the 'henge' problem again with 0.74. Its a real problem. Anythoughts on what to do?

Best wishes,

Breunor

Ok, I'm pretty sure this is a bug. I had a bad relationship (technically, annoyed) with Crete. I went into the diplo screen. He had 2 irons. I said, 'OK, what the bleep.' So I asked what he wanted for it. Nothing showed up on my side of the table -- and he said ' I'm sure you think this is a fair trade.'! I got iron from someone who doesn't like me for NOTHING. To be fair, I gave him 2 resources anyway, but I could have gotten the iron free.

Best wishes,

Breunor

Bruenor,

yes that was a bug. I believe I had that occurence as well, and should be on our To-Do list. Thanks for all the input, hopefully the next build will be out soon and some of these things will be corrected.

are you sure you have v.074? The super huge buildings have been corrected, though a couple of buildings still appear big, they are not as they were in v.070-v.073.

Davbenbak,

I will be looking into the Espionage Text Quote bug, thanks for the report

When was the Animated Leaderhead released?

What short description do you want for my list?

Bruenor,

yes that was a bug. I believe I had that occurence as well, and should be on our To-Do list. Thanks for all the input, hopefully the next build will be out soon and some of these things will be corrected.

are you sure you have v.074? The super huge buildings have been corrected, though a couple of buildings still appear big, they are not as they were in v.070-v.073.

Davbenbak,

I will be looking into the Espionage Text Quote bug, thanks for the report

Thanks Grey. You are correct, the henge is smaller that it was in 0.70 but it is big enough to be a potential problem. Fortunately for me this game, I'm Egypt and the henge is far away. I ran into the problem when I tried to move a merchant galley and couldn't see where I was going, but it isn't a game breaker here.

I'm almost positive I'm using 0.74. I'm using a 0.74 map.

I think the sapper 'bug' comes from the fact that it is invisible. So, when peace comes, I'm pretty sure the code is saying that the sapper can stay -- but it probably should move with the 'main' army or else weird things can happen.

The game has gone very smoothly, I think it is much improved. I'm still trying to get the 'hang' of how to use the different units. I love the horse archers -- I think they work very well. My favorite part now is that standing behind walls is no longer the way to defend (relative to regular Civ) when you have a lot of mobile troops and you really have to think about offense relative to defense.

Great job everyone!!

Best wishes,

Breunor

When was the Animated Leaderhead released?

What short description do you want for my list?

Zuul,

looks like Ambrox released them on Jan 2

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=257148

Thanks Grey. You are correct, the henge is smaller that it was in 0.70 but it is big enough to be a potential problem. Fortunately for me this game, I'm Egypt and the henge is far away. I ran into the problem when I tried to move a merchant galley and couldn't see where I was going, but it isn't a game breaker here.

I'm almost positive I'm using 0.74. I'm using a 0.74 map.

I think the sapper 'bug' comes from the fact that it is invisible. So, when peace comes, I'm pretty sure the code is saying that the sapper can stay -- but it probably should move with the 'main' army or else weird things can happen.

The game has gone very smoothly, I think it is much improved. I'm still trying to get the 'hang' of how to use the different units. I love the horse archers -- I think they work very well. My favorite part now is that standing behind walls is no longer the way to defend (relative to regular Civ) when you have a lot of mobile troops and you really have to think about offense relative to defense.

Great job everyone!!

Best wishes,

Breunor
Bruenor,

http://tam.arbolingo.com/downloads/

in case you want to doublecheck your version.

Thanks. I did download 0.74 -- the only thing I'm not positive about is whether I did it 'right' or I screwed up somehow.

Unfortunately, I have run into a problem. I finally got a crash. I reloaded, and got the crash a few turns later again.

I also ran into an issue I had in 0.70. I had a Great Prophet in Pi-Ramses,where Zoroastrianism had been founded -- and I couldn't build their shrine (the Altar of Fire or something like that). The option wasn't available for the prophet.

Here is a save:

It should crash in a turn or two and the great prophet should appear in Memphis.

Best wishes,

Breunor

Breunor,

Something doesnt sound right. Delete or remove all your TAM folders out of BTS/MOD directory and download v.074 (fresh) and make sure it lands in the BTS/MOD directory.

The Great Prophet/shrine bug is definately v.070. I performed that building with a great prophet myself last evening with no problems.

Always remove/delete an older version before downloading newer versions.

Happy (and better) TAMing,

Quick unit question. Just wondering why archers/bowman have a 50% chance to withdraw but horse archers only have a 40% chance? Seems like it would be the other way around, horses moving away faster than men on foot.

Davbenbak,

ALL the game units are currently undergoing analysis, organization, improvements and upgrades in graphics by Ambrox and Shype (and others)

Keep the input coming anyway though!

Davbenbak,

2) Espionage tech gives a TXT_KEY_TECH_ESPIONAGE_QUOTE when researched.

I thought I would give you an update on this Text Bug. I found its source and repaired it. Essentially misspellings between entry points. Please let me know if you find any more.

thanks again

Breunor,

Something doesnt sound right. Delete or remove all your TAM folders out of BTS/MOD directory and download v.074 (fresh) and make sure it lands in the BTS/MOD directory.

The Great Prophet/shrine bug is definately v.070. I performed that building with a great prophet myself last evening with no problems.

Always remove/delete an older version before downloading newer versions.

Happy (and better) TAMing,

Thanks Gray, I'll give it a shot.

But help me out -- can you tell me where the maps and the leaderheads go? Do the leaderheads go into Art?

Best wishes,

Breunor

@graywarden,

Thanks responding to my comments and all the hard work your doing to make an already great mod even better!

Ok,

A few bugs:

I think I have 0.74, I deleted the old TAM and reinstalled.

I can't get lumbermills to work. I build woodworking and moved on, but my workers can't build them.

Also, I think the 'burning forest -- replant or lose' random event may be out of control. I must have gotten 5 of them in 40 turns. I'm playing Babylon.

Best wishes,

Breunor

Edit: never mind about the lumbermill, I was being dumb!

Davbenbak,

ALL the game units are currently undergoing analysis, organization, improvements and upgrades in graphics by Ambrox and Shype (and others)

Keep the input coming anyway though!

Shqype ;)

The next version should have quite a few bug fixes and improvements.

This is my second game. My first was Egypt, and now I'm playing Babylon.

I'm really having trouble with money in the late game. According to the information screen, I have the highest GNP. I'm winning by a landslide.

With Egypt, I got a tad lucky -- I got a shrine for shrine income, and got the wonder that doubles wealth in that city. I managed to get open borders with three Civ's. One was the Myceneans, so I was able to send merchant galleys. I got the Great Lighthouse, and was able to keep my science up.

But even with Egypt, I'm a little worried if inflation matches the base game. In the base game, we get banks, grocers, and markets; but in TAM we get essentially just the market for a 25% increase.

With Babylon, I think I'll be bankrupt at 10% science, even though (as I said) I have the highest GNP. No overseas trade. I didn't get a shrine or the double-income wonder. I've disbanded military to have 0 cost and it is still crippling me. I'm only surviving by selling techs.

I probably should have gotten the naval techs so I can get the tech that allows the building of the market, but I didn't think they would be a priority for Babylon. Btw, I'm running all civics to maximize my money, like City States.

Anyway, to make a long story short, relative to 'normal' civ we have FAR fewer wealth multipliers, it is much harder to get open borders and trade income, etc. Maybe inflation should be turned down?

Best wishes,

Breunor

Bruenor,

The monetary mechanics will be adjusted along with everything else.

In the mean time, you have to go for the right civics early.

City States
Plutocracy
Barter

and use Cult of the Sea when you need the cash

also go for the techs that build your economy buildings early too

it takes a couple games to get the hang of the tech tree to keep your economy going

about the time you get it figured out, we will have changed everything.... haha

good luck

Hmmm I had real monetary problem with my Illirian empire. Every new city in the middle of the game gives me -10% to tech slider... And only because I RAPE and CONQUER. If not their gold from the captured and presented back cities, I'd be a bankrupt long time ago...
The best tactics for me now to lead 2-3 wars at once. The only problem is the direction of their attack, if I can find it before they rush on my cities and fortify in the right forests, I'm OK. And then I RAPE their cities with my warlords-enchanced army and get the Bloody gold for my peaceful philosophers to discover new way of living...

Very Good Mod, thank you! I love the antique theme and this mod was definitely my new-year present!

Anyway, to make a long story short, relative to 'normal' civ we have FAR fewer wealth multipliers, it is much harder to get open borders and trade income, etc. Maybe inflation should be turned down?

Sicily, Crete, Cyprus the British isles and the other islands are some of the most valuable territories. Since they count as "over seas", you recieve a +100% modifier for every trade route to those cities. In a empire of 10 cities, ghrabbing a city on an island will give you anywhere from 20-40 commerce (depending on your city sizes and buildings constructed). Try claiming one as your 5-7th city and see if that helps your economy while you expand.

And on that same bend, I find the Celt's situation a bit too strong. Once you jump the channel, your economy keeps on rolling because the trade route income will often offset your maintenance expense.

Sicily, Crete, Cyprus the British isles and the other islands are some of the most valuable territories. Since they count as "over seas", you recieve a +100% modifier for every trade route to those cities. In a empire of 10 cities, ghrabbing a city on an island will give you anywhere from 20-40 commerce (depending on your city sizes and buildings constructed). Try claiming one as your 5-7th city and see if that helps your economy while you expand.

And on that same bend, I find the Celt's situation a bit too strong. Once you jump the channel, your economy keeps on rolling because the trade route income will often offset your maintenance expense.

I agree, I played with Egypt and was able to keep the economy going. But try playing with Babylon on Emperor -- getting to the Mediterranean is quite hard.

Best wishes,

Breunor

The "Noble" setting is the cleanest difficulty setting. By that I mean, it will be the LEAST skewed for difficulty. The more difficult the setting above Noble, and things are agressivly skewed against the human player.
Right now I am testing BTS TAM v.074 and to keep my testing "timely" and to allow myself easy access to wonders, I am testing on Warlord. Its like taking candy from a baby.

The BTS game (CIV4) engine is more difficult to play then Vanilla I have found.

If you are looking for Natural/Even difficulty, Noble is best.

If you are looking to Extremely Challenge yourself then go above Noble. BUT dont expect ANY phase of the game to be the same. Everything gets tweaked to make it harder for you.

So upon reaching the imperial age, all of the workers turn into the 'modern' workers and their unit picture changes to look like either an archer UU or a hero.

Same thing with the workers. Also, was playing a game and reached imperial age, so decided to check the world builder to see how everyone was doing. Was really impressed and amused to see a whole bunch of barbarian cities in the lonely west being connected by this HUGE roadwork :eek:.

EDIT: Lonely east

The worker graphics will be corrected with the next version with a host of other things graphic and otherwise. Thanks for playing the MOD, its only going to get better.

Well I fixed this bug for me, but it would be nice to make this fix a public one =).

Deon,

It will be on the next version, which I hope to begin testing soon. The guys are working hard on it, I expect it will be a major upgrade from v.074 from the amount of time that is being spent on it.

Thanks for the input on this thread and the others

Happy TAMing

I have no doubt you will fix it, it's easy =).
It looks like you don't like to make "intermediate" fixes and release more or less major patches.

Actually there were three "quickies" v.070, v.073, v.074, but was necessary as we were having some serious crash issues. Now that we have the engine running without crashing, the team is busy hashing out all the possibilities for the true first major TAM BTS. These early ones were really just converting vanilla TAM to BTS to get the ball rolling. We released them to be downloaded to get the TAM community involved with the process.

The "Noble" setting is the cleanest difficulty setting. By that I mean, it will be the LEAST skewed for difficulty. The more difficult the setting above Noble, and things are agressivly skewed against the human player.
Right now I am testing BTS TAM v.074 and to keep my testing "timely" and to allow myself easy access to wonders, I am testing on Warlord. Its like taking candy from a baby.

The BTS game (CIV4) engine is more difficult to play then Vanilla I have found.

If you are looking for Natural/Even difficulty, Noble is best.

If you are looking to Extremely Challenge yourself then go above Noble. BUT dont expect ANY phase of the game to be the same. Everything gets tweaked to make it harder for you.

Thanks Gray.

The only problem with this is that the game just doesn't seem to 'work'. On Emperor, I can get into a competitive game early -- but I can't keep from running out of money. I suspect if I try noble I can roll the AI militarily.

I also think the maritime powers ha a large monetary advantage.

Best wishes,

Breunor

I also think the maritime powers ha a large monetary advantage.
As they should.

Plundering merchant vessels should gain you some gold if your coffers starts getting too bare.

I can not load the Mod. When I click on the world builder save to launch Tam, I get this error message (http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/MP425/TAMerror.jpg).

S.P.Q.R.

Make sure you have the latest Civ4 and BTS patches installed. There are .dlls missing without them. Let me know if that took care of it for you.


I can not load the Mod. When I click on the world builder save to launch Tam, I get this error message (http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/MP425/TAMerror.jpg).

S.P.Q.R.

Make sure you have the latest Civ4 and BTS patches installed. There are .dlls missing without them. Let me know if that took care of it for you.

I am patched with BTS version 3.13.

S.P.Q.R.

I just noticed you were trying to load from a world builder save.

What happens if you "load the mod" from the front door?

it may be a corrupted file for whatever reason.

Just a suggestion:

How about adding the ability to build merc units from different empires depending on the areas you control.
One way to do this is to have special resources that would look simular to a goody hut/village. Each area would have its unique "village". And each "village" would count as a required resource for the said units (this would also allow you to trade the ability to build merc units if you do not control the area). This could add some flavor units with some abilities your nation may not have. Using Kaels (from FFH fame) promotion that would give them a % chance to turn barbaric and or flip sides if they loose a battle. The advantage would be unique abilities, cheep and fast units especially in a pinch.

Some example could be:

Slinger Mercs from Crete Island
Visigoth Horsemen Mercs from the black sea area
Elephant Archers Mercs from the Persian area
Axemen Mercs from the Tribal Galic areas
Greecian Naval Mercs units from well greece

etc etc etc =')

Darkwood,

Great Idea, I wonder if it could be incorparated in another discussion currently on another thread.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=261967

I will pass it along to TAMDEV

About cultural victory : with just one civic giving +10% culture, it seems impossible to reach cultural victory.
Even on low difficulty (prince) with adapted civ (cultural agamemnon, isolated boudicca), building every wonder.. etc, at 100 turn left not even half the culture necessary is done.
Imo 100% boost was too strong, but +10% is very very low, preventing any cultural victory.

The "Noble" setting is the cleanest difficulty setting. By that I mean, it will be the LEAST skewed for difficulty. The more difficult the setting above Noble, and things are agressivly skewed against the human player.
Right now I am testing BTS TAM v.074 and to keep my testing "timely" and to allow myself easy access to wonders, I am testing on Warlord. Its like taking candy from a baby.

The BTS game (CIV4) engine is more difficult to play then Vanilla I have found.

If you are looking for Natural/Even difficulty, Noble is best.

If you are looking to Extremely Challenge yourself then go above Noble. BUT dont expect ANY phase of the game to be the same. Everything gets tweaked to make it harder for you.

I am not sure if this is right thread for my response...anyway

I have been playing consistently on Emperor and I have a question concerning the difficulty. Yes, the balance of the game is difficult at this level, however, the fact that there seem to be so many different units that can do collateral damage in the game makes playing on Emperor or even Monarch feel like Deity.

Of course it should only be natural that the game makes it hard to impossible for your economy to afford a 15-20 stacked army (above and beyond defensive units) of various units to combat the armies the computer raises. That being said, when the computer attacks you with its massive army of 20-40 or more collateral damage units it hardly matters who you have defending, whether it be a hero with 100-200 xp or 4 of them, they are simply destroyed outright and there is nothing that can be done. Then your cities fall as the collateral damage units move in and spam your spearmen (if you have them) to death (regardless of whether they are in fortresses built in the hills or with all city defense upgrades in a city).

I guess what I am asking is if Emperor should be this difficult? One of the things that attracted me to TAM was of course the time-period it is set in but also the Heros and the ability to promote other units with great generals and make them as powerful as the heros. In a more general sense, with the Emperor difficulty your offensive units MUST be heavily promoted and able to withstand a lot of punishment, otherwise they just simply die, whether on the walls of cities or defending in enemy lands.

But with the amount of units that cause collateral damage (that the computer builds in huge quantities) there appears to be no balance, unless the point of the game after copper working is to suck it up and try to afford 15-20 defensive units per city and hope to god they don't attack us. And retire your Heros to cower in some fortress far from the battles on the walls of your cities, or simply disband them because you can't afford to have idle units any longer. If I haven't even gotten the proper tech yet to build a hero it feels as if he is obsolete before hes even been built...

Units that cause collateral damage:
EARLY GAME: (Balanced for the most part)
Peltasts
Archer
Javinleer

early mid Game: (becomes unbalanced very quick with an AI's growing economy)
Armored Javinleer
Chariot Archer
Horse archer

mid game: (very unbalanced, as the compter AI's economy allows it to build 40-50 offensive units)
Bowmen
HEavy Horse Archer
Mounted Javlineer...

I think the problem lies with the Mounted units--I accept the fact that they receive so much movement and can eventually leave any city and attack an approaching army at will. But what makes everything unbalanced is when they can withdraw and survive the encounter to attack another day so easily, and most defensive units have no way to combat them effectively to boot. The only way to protect yourself in the hills and cities is with Armored spearmen really. But even a stack of 10 spearmen just simply die when 30 or more horse archers appear. Even if a spearman (upgraded from a special unit) manages to acquire 25% against skirmishers and mounted units, it seems to make little difference in my games. Maybe if there were more advanced promotions it could be done, but needless to say the effect of collateral damage is exponential once more than 10 such units appear at your walls.

Anyway, maybe its just my pride speaking here about being obliterated on Emperor :), whereas it felt as if I had a fighting chance in earlier versions.

Thanks a lot for your input. We have adjusted some units, but now we need to better balance the collateral damage.

Collateral damage should be significantly reduced for Archery units ... Javelineers should be the supreme collateral damage units, where Archery units give very minor CD. The withdrawal rates of units also needs to greatly improve: some of them have huge withdrawal rates that they should have never been given, so I'll look into that and do what I can to adjust it.

Glad to see you fellas are up and running again with this mod. I was a contributor back in the day.

Looking forward to seeing the new BTS version. This has always been one of my favorite mods.

Thanks a lot for your input. We have adjusted some units, but now we need to better balance the collateral damage.

Collateral damage should be significantly reduced for Archery units ... Javelineers should be the supreme collateral damage units, where Archery units give very minor CD. The withdrawal rates of units also needs to greatly improve: some of them have huge withdrawal rates that they should have never been given, so I'll look into that and do what I can to adjust it.

Thanks,thats good to hear! I just wanted to say that I never found a problem with the Javlineers really, or even the armored javlineers. But perhaps that is because once horses and the proper techs are available the computer AI no longer builds them and favors the horse units.

One other stylistic point: I noticed on Marathon games (1500 odd turns) that the game extends well past the year 2000. Would it be possible to reset the pace by which the years progress so that a Marathon game still ends around the same century as the other game speeds (6-7th century?)?

To add to Wayeward, I'm getting that even on Emperor, I'm pretty good at winning militarily early on but the later game is impossible because I can actually afford a bigger army early in the game than later. I don't think this is realistic. The reason this seems to happen is that the economy cannot expand enough to keep up with inflation, especially for a non-sea power.

I'm not usre if playing down a level is the answer. This may make my late game army easier to handle, but then it makes my early game army even stronger.

So, I'm waiting for the updates!

Best wishes,

Breunor

Just a quick reminder to everybodys concerns. You should not even consider any version under 1.0 to be a finished release. What you guys are playing is vanilla 2.01 inserted into the BTS engine. ALL the major facets of the game have yet to be refined and balanced. We are still working on the mechanics of BTS to fit the TAM world as we know it...... :)

Just a quick reminder to everybodys concerns. You should not even consider any version under 1.0 to be a finished release. What you guys are playing is vanilla 2.01 inserted into the BTS engine. ALL the major facets of the game have yet to be refined and balanced. We are still working on the mechanics of BTS to fit the TAM world as we know it...... :)

But it is REALLY good anyway, so we are all looking forward to the enhancements ....

Best wishes,

Breunor

Hey guys! I was wondering what do you have planned for the events/quests? At the moment the only one I see is the fire one.

About cultural victory : with just one civic giving +10% culture, it seems impossible to reach cultural victory.
Even on low difficulty (prince) with adapted civ (cultural agamemnon, isolated boudicca), building every wonder.. etc, at 100 turn left not even half the culture necessary is done.
Imo 100% boost was too strong, but +10% is very very low, preventing any cultural victory.

That is VERY strange because playing as the Illyrians with over 100 turns left on standard difficulty I have 1 city with 11,000 culture and 2 others with about 6,000... don't you need 10,000 in 3 cities to win a cultural victory?

If I were to build culture in the 2 remaining cities and tweak the cultural slider it should be very easy for me to win a cultural victory, and the Illyrians aren't even suited for it!

I'm on the verge of releasing a big update; just have a few things to polish up first.

Cool! Can't wait to see the changes

That is VERY strange because playing as the Illyrians with over 100 turns left on standard difficulty I have 1 city with 11,000 culture and 2 others with about 6,000... don't you need 10,000 in 3 cities to win a cultural victory?
i play epic/marathon so the goal is above 100.000 (i guess 100 & 150k). it's easy to reach fixed bonuses for culture with wonders and buildings, but +xx% is the key point for cultural victory and without these buildings i do not feel like it's reachable in "normal diffculty" (for me = monarch).
i'm currently trying to reach it playing babylon (the best fitted, with mycenians) at warlord difficulty (sic) in normal speed.
it's quite frustating not to reach cultural after having reached domination 2 times :cry:

[edit]
ok, just reached cultural victory in easy mode (warlord) just 6 turns before the end doing everything possible, running at 80-100% cultural the last 200 turns. Having tested many games (around 10 with this version) Domination/Conquest are easier than cultural. Fast games + medium/small map are necessary for cultural.
But still very frustrating to have to play "easy mode" as to be able to have a cultural victory, i definitely cannot be proud with a "Dan Quayle" scoring, while Domniation gave an easiest Cesar with Monarch difficulty on huge map ;)
In normal speed, you need 50.000 (in 3 cities) to reach cultural.

Some keys that could solve this :
- having a government form that gives better than +1/specialist and +10% culture
- a easier access to government that allows unlimited scientific/artist/merchant (as to win cultural you must first go to vice-royalty, it's "far")
- more buildings allowing to make artists
- buildings with +xx% culture instead of just +1/+2/+3 (could be given with some ressources, like it is for taverns/harbors)

Bug noticed with babylonians : i never could build babylonian gardens, even with end-game tech all discovered. After slave market is done, no arena available (i guess babylonian gardens = arena). Never saw a building with this name, except from the wonder.

I'm on the verge of releasing a big update; just have a few things to polish up first.

good news... any idea about ETA? (what about this weekend ;) )

keep up the good work :goodjob:

Bug noticed with babylonians : i never could build babylonian gardens, even with end-game tech all discovered. After slave market is done, no arena available (i guess babylonian gardens = arena). Never saw a building with this name, except from the wonder.

Same here, looked at the xml and didn't see anything wrong there so maybe civopaedia?:confused:

Bug noticed with babylonians : i never could build babylonian gardens, even with end-game tech all discovered. After slave market is done, no arena available (i guess babylonian gardens = arena). Never saw a building with this name, except from the wonder.

Baptiste,

I had not seen these issues to date, but I am not sure I have tested as the Babylonians in the last couple versions. I am expecting a new version any day now to begin testing. I will start as the Babylonians and check it all out.

Thanks for the report

I downloaded this and tried it out. It seems really well polished so far. I did notice a couple of things though.

The button for the siege tower looks like an axeman (and why does the siege tower start with medic I and II?).

Achilles is the unit type rather than the name. It seems like Achilles should be the name of the hero. Right now it has hero name(Achilles). Perhaps Achilles(unit type) would be better.

Mesix,

version .70 thru .075, were quick releases converting TAM from vanilla to BTS.

The Siege Tower graphic button was one of numerous bugs which have been fixed.

In fact version .82 was just released

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=264559

As far as the Hero Units in TAM BTS, they will go through some minor modifications, but that work has not begun yet.

Thanks for the input

Happy TAMing

Bug noticed with babylonians : i never could build babylonian gardens, even with end-game tech all discovered. After slave market is done, no arena available (i guess babylonian gardens = arena). Never saw a building with this name, except from the wonder.

baptiste,

As I promised, my first test game was as the Babylonians with the latest version release. There were no problems with the Babylonian Gardens being built. And there has never been a problem with the Arenas from any civilization I have tested with.

Double check you have the latest Civ4 and BTS patches installed from Firaxis.

Download our latest version (make sure you remove the old version first - dont overwrite it) and let us know if your Babylonians are doing better. They are for me so far. :D

Please disregard the earlier post about the naming of the heroes. The additional name came from attaching a great general to the hero.

The game benefit of having a great general attached to a hero is obvious, but it seems a bit odd to have the general leading one guy into battle (unit graphic becomes the hero and the great general). Perhaps heroes could be given access to the unique great general promotions and the ability to merge a great general with a hero unit could be removed.

Just my two cents. If they are putting together some modifications to the heroes, I'll wait and see what is in store.