Ok so, the arguments about whether or not to include it. Now I really do think the game would work better with Zoroastrianism, and so I planned to create a zoroastrian mod, and then an inquizitor mod for RFC. And when it was finished to ask Rhye if I could post it here for other people.

It has been about 12 hours of non stop work and to cut a long story short I can't do it. Trust me I tried everything within my ability. However as a consquence I havn't got his permission for this yet, so...

...pending Rhye's permission does anyone else who is better at this sort of thing than I am, Like the Idea of Removing Religions, or having Zoroastrianism enough to try it themselves?

What will be its holy city?

I don't think it's a good idea to have it in the game (What is the point of religion in Civ? Mostly diplomatic benefits as I see it), but I will try anyway.

I recon if it could be discovered by a tch persia always gets first, or starts with that others don't get by its spawn then it would be founded in persiapolis/parsi when the persians spawned. Monerchy springs to mind.

And I know not many people will have it but it is a better option than Judaism no?

Any thanks to anyone who helps me in this endeavour :)

It's not that hard really, I've knocked up something just now.

Download: http://meat.arvixe.com/~joeyroe/Zoroastrianism for RFC.zip

Here's the readme:
ZOROASTRIANISM FOR RHYE'S AND FALL OF CIVILIZATION
by Joseph Roe (aka Umarth)

This is a small and relatively 'quick and dirty' modcomp that adds Zoroastrianism
to Rhye's excellent Civilization IV mod.

Features:

* Judaism 'reskinned' as Zoroastrianism by changing text and incorporating graphics
from abbamouse's Realistic Religions mod.
(http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141585)

* Changed the scripted event which has Judaism spawning in Jerusalem to Zorastrianism
spawning in Susa (it spawns a bit early, but not as much so as Judaism does in RFC)

Limitations:

* The bonuses associated with Judaism are transferred to Zoroastrianism unchanged.

* Translation is patchy, bordering on non-existent.

Installation:

* Unzip to BTS Folder\Mods

* You may want to back up your "Rhye's and Fall of Civilization" folder first.

I'm using this in my game now. I hope someone else can find a use for it.

If anybody likes it and can provide a mirror that would be great, I'm planning on ending my hosting soon. If you can, add it to the wiki: http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rfc-modcomps

Thanks mate, thats brilliant :) I am using it now. :) :) :)

Good, I will study today instead! The next project I have in mind is slightly more ambitious... Protestantism.

Hmm. If Protestantism, why not Orthodoxy too? Or Shia for that matter?

Simply, Christianity gets a shair of 35% + in most games which makes it the superreligion, leading Mansa Musa for example to switch to Christianity as soon as one city of his has it (despite the rest being muslim).

It is not a question of Realism, it is more one of gameplay. Having said this, I would think that Protestantism isn't the best name. What would its holy city be and all. Plus we are shutting out Orthodoxy...

Regarding the topic of the thread: Interesting, we'll see!

m

My work seems to be moving along smoothly, though I haven't tested anything yet.

Indeed, the justification (by faith alone! :) ) of Protestantism is that
(a) Christianity is too powerful
(b) A split might change that
(c) Eastern Orthodoxy didn't have as big an influence on inter-Christian religious wars as Protestantism did. (The looting of Byzantium was bad and all, but it's no Thirty Years' War.)
(d) If we're really nit-picking, the Orthodox Churches are more similar to Roman Catholicism than all but a few of the Protestant denominations, including (ironically enough) the Lutherans.
(e) Shi'a Islam would serve very little purpose in my opinion. The Muslim world is already at enough of a disadvantage in RFC without a schism on top.

I don't envisage Protestantism having a holy city - it doesn't really fit in with the nature of the thing. Besides, if the way I'm programming it works right, it doesn't need one.


By the way, I have two college assignments due for Tuesday that I intended to finish today. That is why I am spending so much time on this - it is a convenient distraction.

It's not that hard really, I've knocked up something just now.

Download: http://meat.arvixe.com/~joeyroe/Zoroastrianism for RFC.zip

Here's the readme:
ZOROASTRIANISM FOR RHYE'S AND FALL OF CIVILIZATION
by Joseph Roe (aka Umarth)

This is a small and relatively 'quick and dirty' modcomp that adds Zoroastrianism
to Rhye's excellent Civilization IV mod.

Features:

* Judaism 'reskinned' as Zoroastrianism by changing text and incorporating graphics
from abbamouse's Realistic Religions mod.
(http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141585)

* Changed the scripted event which has Judaism spawning in Jerusalem to Zorastrianism
spawning in Susa (it spawns a bit early, but not as much so as Judaism does in RFC)

Limitations:

* The bonuses associated with Judaism are transferred to Zoroastrianism unchanged.

* Translation is patchy, bordering on non-existent.

Installation:

* Unzip to BTS Folder\Mods

* You may want to back up your "Rhye's and Fall of Civilization" folder first.

I'm using this in my game now. I hope someone else can find a use for it.

Damn! I've done one of the "Reskining Judaism" variety.

As for translation, all I did was Copy the Wikipedia entrys for the various languages to the civilopedia/gametextinfos.

EDIT: Yours is a lot better than mine, but can I suggest moving the tech to Monarchy, as Kai suggested?

It would be founded a little late then, I think. Anyway, I didn't want to substantially alter game play, just a "reskin" like I said.

It's not that hard really, I've knocked up something just now.

Download: http://meat.arvixe.com/~joeyroe/Zoroastrianism for RFC.zip

Here's the readme:
ZOROASTRIANISM FOR RHYE'S AND FALL OF CIVILIZATION
by Joseph Roe (aka Umarth)

This is a small and relatively 'quick and dirty' modcomp that adds Zoroastrianism
to Rhye's excellent Civilization IV mod.

Features:

* Judaism 'reskinned' as Zoroastrianism by changing text and incorporating graphics
from abbamouse's Realistic Religions mod.
(http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=141585)

* Changed the scripted event which has Judaism spawning in Jerusalem to Zorastrianism
spawning in Susa (it spawns a bit early, but not as much so as Judaism does in RFC)

Limitations:

* The bonuses associated with Judaism are transferred to Zoroastrianism unchanged.

* Translation is patchy, bordering on non-existent.

Installation:

* Unzip to BTS Folder\Mods

* You may want to back up your "Rhye's and Fall of Civilization" folder first.

I'm using this in my game now. I hope someone else can find a use for it.

Sorry for resuming this old discussion but I'm growing tired of Judaism, so I wanted to ask: will this modcomp work with any version unless Judaism itself is modified ?

Yes. I'm using it in the current version.

cool feature, i think there are only two things that RFC lacks and those are dynamic religions (ancient = hellenism, zoroastrianism, mesopotamian polytheism et cetera) that change depending on who is the human player (if human != persia, their religion gets destroyed should persia be destroyed and replaced with whatever fits) - and flavoured units.

anyway is there a chance you can do a hellenic religion (perhaps greek polytheism)?

I agree and I think their should be ancient religions (greek, egyptian, mesopatmian, judaism and zorastrian) and then after the founding of of Islam and Christianity let the religions slowly die out like they did in real history, i think rhye should add this system into the next update. I'm fed up of having a jewish greece and egypt!:mad:

or why not we just have the zorastrian religion plus judaism, why does one have to replace the other??

it's something I've always wanted to do, but never had time. And I still haven't

what happend on July 3 2008??

I'm working on a modcomp right now that includes, among many other things, Hellenism and Zoroastrianism (as replacements for Judaism and Confucianism). I implemented a gradual dieoff for Hellenism after Christianity is founded, but it's a bit annoying to have ancient religions with no replacements in later starts. I'm going to look into dynamic replacements, but I suspect it would require SDK modding to change the loading of the icon font files.

can't you keep Judaism and Confusanism??

I downloaded the mod then i unzipped it, then loaded the mod (and i got rid of the unneccessary folder) but then how do i start the game, because its just on the normal BTS screen?

Just in case anyone's curious, this modcomp works for RAND too. Just unzipped it into that folder instead and it works fine.

oh so we have to unzip it into the rhye's and fall folder first?

oh so we have to unzip it into the rhye's and fall folder first?

Yes. It's not a full Mod, but a simple Modcomp (Mod Component, I believe), meaning that you just unzip it into the folder of the Mod you want to, well, modify, and then you're ready to rock.

and what happens if I download another modcomp into the file, will the zorastrian relgion still work with the other modcomp??
I don't have an RFC folder, so i just put it into RFC1181 (update) folder within my mods folder is that ok?

I'm working on a modcomp right now that includes, among many other things, Hellenism and Zoroastrianism (as replacements for Judaism and Confucianism). I implemented a gradual dieoff for Hellenism after Christianity is founded, but it's a bit annoying to have ancient religions with no replacements in later starts. I'm going to look into dynamic replacements, but I suspect it would require SDK modding to change the loading of the icon font files.

That would be excellent! Closer and closer to an ancient RFC which IMO would be absolutely fantastic as I've stated many times there silmply isn't enough time to do everything that was done historically in the classical era (create huge empires, build wonders, religious temples, establish large, cultural cities, etc)

ah;) now i understand

That would be excellent! Closer and closer to an ancient RFC which IMO would be absolutely fantastic as I've stated many times there silmply isn't enough time to do everything that was done historically in the classical era (create huge empires, build wonders, religious temples, establish large, cultural cities, etc)

If we had all that time, the first condition in the French UHV would become nearly impossible.

Brief Background: I want to mod in Manichaeism instead of Zoroastrianism for my own use (please, no "should be in" debates right here right now). I began mucking through the \Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4ReligionInfo.xml file, and found that the one in the Zoroastrian mod differs significantly from that in RFCRAND: the rates at which the various religions spread. This comes from the difference in the value called "spreadfactor". The Zoroastrianism mod uses the values from core RFC, and not the ones from RAND.

To illustrate the various values between the Zoroastrianism mod or RAND and RFC-core in its most recent iteration respectively:

Zoroastrianism: 100 vs. Judaism: 50
Christianity: 100 vs. Christianity: 100
Islam: 200 vs. Islam: 150
Hinduism: 30 vs. Hinduism: 80
Buddhism: 100 vs. Buddhism: 140
Confucianism: 50 vs. Confucianism: 80
Taoism: 50 vs. Taoism: 70

If I understand that right, it means that Zoroastrianism spreads faster than Judaism, Islam spreads faster than it does in RAND, and all of the remaining religions save Christianity spread somewhat to much slower than Rhye currently wants them to in the RAND game, which may at least contribute to the "religionless Europe" phenomenon some people have been seeing.

I'll leave it up to you guys to decide for yourselves whether or not to change it, but it's something that I wasn't even aware of until earlier and thought I'd share.

If you do decide that you want the values Rhye intended, I've attached the corrected \Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4ReligionInfo.xml file as a .rar.

If I find other differences, I'll say so here :)

My bad, I tweaked those rates a long time ago and completely forgot about it when I was writing the Zoroastrianism mod.

It's ok, I didn't even know they existed until just last night :)

And I thought the spread rate for the religions is coded into the .dll file. Umarth, can you confirm that those rates have actual effect in the game? The .dll values could be additional modifiers.

My work seems to be moving along smoothly, though I haven't tested anything yet.

Indeed, the justification (by faith alone! :) ) of Protestantism is that
(a) Christianity is too powerful
(b) A split might change that
(c) Eastern Orthodoxy didn't have as big an influence on inter-Christian religious wars as Protestantism did. (The looting of Byzantium was bad and all, but it's no Thirty Years' War.)
(d) If we're really nit-picking, the Orthodox Churches are more similar to Roman Catholicism than all but a few of the Protestant denominations, including (ironically enough) the Lutherans.
(e) Shi'a Islam would serve very little purpose in my opinion. The Muslim world is already at enough of a disadvantage in RFC without a schism on top.

I don't envisage Protestantism having a holy city - it doesn't really fit in with the nature of the thing. Besides, if the way I'm programming it works right, it doesn't need one.


By the way, I have two college assignments due for Tuesday that I intended to finish today. That is why I am spending so much time on this - it is a convenient distraction.

Now I must disagree with you here. Islam gets the entire middle east, parts of Africa, generally india, and the philipines and sometimes even more. Especially if they invade Spain. You must bear in mind there special ability is to spread islam to every city the conquer as well as building a cathederal there. The only reason christanity has any "advantage" at all, is because the Europeans invade North and South America, thats it. I would highly dislike a Christian or Muslim split.

Christianity and Islam though, are the two strongest religions of the game. Neither one of them are "underpowered". The strongest religion is either Christanity or Islam, depending. The weakest religion is Judaism. Hinduism is fairly weak since it rarely spreads much past India, if at all. Buddhism is pretty good. Confusanism and daoism are fairly weak, but not as much as Judaism.

If any religions need a boost, its Judaism. But doing so, would be historically inaccurate. The game is historically accurate. Some religons just have advantages over others, thats the reality.

And I thought the spread rate for the religions is coded into the .dll file. Umarth, can you confirm that those rates have actual effect in the game? The .dll values could be additional modifiers.
Actually I didn't think they did have any effect. I just never got round to undoing the changes.

one thing i'm fed up with is Islam or Buddhism spreading to the New World. If anything other religions can spread to the americas around the 1900 (mass migration) but or else the americas were 100% fully Christian and very devout christians as well

I once had a Buddhist California as China. You could do worse than that. ;)

one thing i'm fed up with is Islam or Buddhism spreading to the New World. If anything other religions can spread to the americas around the 1900 (mass migration) but or else the americas were 100% fully Christian and very devout christians as well

This is an Earth-Simulator, remember. If the new world isn't 100% Christian, then you're obviously not converting the locals aggressively enough :)

not really, if you haven't noticed some religions spread to some places/cities faster than to other places

I have seen Aztecs completely conquered by China. They we Confucian. Some religions do spread faster then others, but I am not sure if depends on anything else other then trade. There is a chance that religion 1 from city A would spread to city 2 if there is a connected trade network; chance is modified by the spread factor.

Hello Everyone,

FYI, Are you aware that we have created an extended Mod that includes Zoroastrianism, almost completely with new buildings, re skinning and religious system?

If you are interested in extracting it out, send me a message. Have a look at it.

Cheers
Houman

I'm intrested PLEASE tell me where i can find it!!!:)
btw does it exclude judaism?

No It doesnt exclude Judaism. It excludes Confusianism.
Check out my signature for the link. Warlords: Total Realism 2.2.1

Houman this is the RFC forum, so as you'd expect we were talking about adding Zoroastrianism to Rhye's mod not to vanilla civ.

Is their a version for BTS because I don't think anyone plays RFC on Warlords any more

i have a question... how come it is that when someone wants to put a new religion in the game like Zoroastrianism it's always replacing Judaism? Why not replace of the the 3 that are in the asian realm... they are the ones that annoy me. Why not make a mod that focuses on the main religions of the middle east and europe?

i have a question... how come it is that when someone wants to put a new religion in the game like Zoroastrianism it's always replacing Judaism? Why not replace of the the 3 that are in the asian realm... they are the ones that annoy me. Why not make a mod that focuses on the main religions of the middle east and europe?

- Because Judaism spreads in an unrealistic manner, and generally enjoys influence far beyond any reasonable amount for a non-proselytising, racially-based faith.
- Because they are used in UHVs, Judaism is not.
- Because then Asian religions would be omitted altogether. RFC Europe might be your thing.

yeah actually i can't wait for it
thanks though for pointing those things out
why is it not used at all?
it's a huge part of history

Only in that it spawned Christianity and Islam. The Israelites and their faith itself however weren't ever really big players.

Judaism seemed the obvious choice to replace because of the highly ahistorical way it can spread throughout the near east in game. But you're right I could have equally found justifications for replacing one of the Asian religions. IMO the whole religion system in CIV is silly; it falls into the trap of trying to fit every religion into the Abrahamic, missionary mould and it's hopelessly shallow and oversimplified for such a complex aspect of human civilization.

@Úmarth

What I mean is you can test it in our mod and extract it out to include it in Rye's Mod. I was trying to give a hand.

Besides your last statement shows you are familiar with Zoroastrianism. :) I like that.

Zoroastrianism ftw. I agree that religion in Civ 4 is done quite badly. Religions seem to pop up randomly in your cities, you can't removes religions, a poor choice of religions... bleh! Tbh, I think you should have removed Confu/Taoism, due to the fact that they are de facto the same (In game ofc), but anything with Zoroastrianism gets my vote!
Oh btw, I tried Total Realism, but it had a habit of random CTD, so I had to stop =/ The bits I saw were very good though.

CTDs were in previous versions due Dales combat mod (before Gold series).
We worked a lot on the religion mod and extended it to give more freedom.

Maybe we could do a brainstorming and see how can improve Zoroastrianism and make it even more realistic?

@Houman

Where do I download this file, and is it for BTS RFC?? Because it looks really intresting and i would really like to check it out;)

Thx

CTDs were in previous versions due Dales combat mod (before Gold series).
We worked a lot on the religion mod and extended it to give more freedom.

Maybe we could do a brainstorming and see how can improve Zoroastrianism and make it even more realistic?

Yeah, problem was it was in the Gold version. I know this isn't the TR thread, but a few suggestions as to why would be appreciated. It was really good, and a merging of the two mods (Rhye's and Fall + TR) would be kickass.

Does anyone have this mod still? I just downloaded the new patch, and it overwrote Zoroastrianism. But the old link to the mod is dead.

@Phalanxia
@The Turk

Please get the link from my signature. Our conversion to BtS isnt finished yet. It is still Warlords edition.

Regarding Rhye's Zoroastrian Mod's progress I have no idea. After my proposal to brainstorming nothing else came really.

Regards
Houman

Can someone re-up this mod? The old link seems to be dead :(

Sorry my host likes to change domains around every two minutes... it's very frustrating. The files I linked to earlier are now here
http://joeyroe.arvixe.com/Zoroastrianism%20for%20RFC.zip
But they're for an old version and I don't think they'll work any more.