Hello. I've never posted here before, but I've enjoyed FfH2 for years, and after the unfortunate loss of the wiki, I think I might be able to contribute. I've often wished the FfH2 Civilopedia were available online, so:

Introducing:

http://phrasr.com/ffh/pedia.php

Everything you see there is parsed automatically, directly from the XML files, and I think it might even be possible to make the Civilopedia into a mini-wiki, edit the entries online, and export XML files for inclusion in new releases. If everything is based on the in-game Civilopedia, no documentation should ever be lost again.

I hope you like it (and I hope it works in IE6, which I can't try anymore). I've been working on it for a couple days, and it's far from finished, but I'd prefer to find out what you all think before I spend a lot more time on it.

Update:

1/12/2008 - original release with civilizations, leaders, guilds, religions, terrain, resources, and technologies
1/14/2008 - completed the units
1/15/2008 - completed spells, abilities, and world spells

Still to do: promotions, civics, buildings, improvements, events, game concepts, difficulty settings, Overcouncil/Undercouncil actions

Cool looks good.

Thank you. I usually just look in the xml itself when I'm not in the game, but this looks much easier to read.

thats neat :D

The pictures of the leaders on the front page are massive. Each picture is around 180 - 220k, meaning the front page is over 6Mb, which is an awfull lot for a web page.

I suggest resaving them as jpg's, at medium quality (or 8 if you have photoshop). You can cut the size of those pictures to just a quarter of what they are and retain the quality.

Don't get me wrong, It's great that you've taken the time to make the pedia available online, but people will be put off from using it if their connection struggles with it.

Wow, thanks, that's really helpful!

The pictures of the leaders on the front page are massive. Each picture is around 180 - 220k, meaning the front page is over 6Mb, which is an awfull lot for a web page.

I suggest resaving them as jpg's, at medium quality (or 8 if you have photoshop). You can cut the size of those pictures to just a quarter of what they are and retain the quality.

Don't get me wrong, It's great that you've taken the time to make the pedia available online, but people will be put off from using it if their connection struggles with it.

You're absolutely right. I was just being lazy, and forgot to fix that.

I've created actual thumbnails as JPG's, about 20K each.

Edit: The front page is still almost 1MB. Perhaps I should reconsider displaying all the leader's portraits.

Is there a way to reverse the process in order to fix spelling and typos?

Is there a way to reverse the process in order to fix spelling and typos?

That's definitely a feature I'd like to add. But I'll need some time to add wiki features like registration, reverts, and recent change lists.

Edit: The front page is still almost 1MB. Perhaps I should reconsider displaying all the leader's portraits.

I think 1MB is probably ok. Granted it is a lot for a single page, but the fact that each image is only 20k means they will be popping up pretty swiftly.

What alarmed me before was mainly the amount of time it took for each image to show.

If people see a web page with lots of images theyexpect it to take a while to display them all, but as long as it tackles each picture fairly quickly people are ok with it.

That is excellent!

I'm thinking that there should be a link to this in Grey Fox's next version of the FfH manual.

Wow, thats awsome. Some notes, I think you should add the heroes as a seperate page and if (eventualy) you would be able to put thumnails for all text boxes that would be awsome. Granted if that might only be practical in a wiki format, and how you have it now is very, very nice.

Looking at the civilipedia again, I think mabey you should take away the far left "Tales from Erebus" colum, make the text smaller and change it to times roman. It would take away from the ambiance but add tons to the ease of scrolling through units and other long lists. Again, keep up the good work.

Wow, thats awsome. Some notes, I think you should add the heroes as a seperate page and if (eventualy) you would be able to put thumnails for all text boxes that would be awsome. Granted if that might only be practical in a wiki format, and how you have it now is very, very nice.

Thanks, to everyone :)

1) I'd like to separate the heroes, but I'm not sure what distinguishes them in the XML. Perhaps the hero promotion, or being a world unit with a limit of 1 in existence?

2) I do have the code to add thumbnails on every page, but actually doing so will be a lot of work! (Unless I can figure out how to convert all the DDS files in one huge batch...)

3) I hope to improve the fonts and layout, someday. Maybe I could open that up for everyone to contribute too: I could use templates for the layout, which anyone could create, and let everyone choose their favorite. The most popular choice could automatically become the default.

I've been working on parsing the unit XML files for about three hours, and I'm only half-way done. If I'd considered how many options exist in Fall From Heaven, I might not have started this project.

There are so many cool features to add, but I'll be slogging through the XML for another week, unless I stop after finishing the units; leave buildings, civics, spells, promotions, and improvements unfinished; and work on more wiki features.

I believe that any unit with a world limit (no matter what that limit it) classifies as a hero (of course, there are currently no world units with a limit other than 1)

Even though the civilopedia doesn't, it might be nice if your online civilopedia also separated the national units

If I'd considered how many options exist in Fall From Heaven, I might not have started this project.

Well, than, thank god you didn't think about it ;)

Well, than, thank god you didn't think about it ;)

:lol:

I originally thought I might finish this in a day.

Fortunately, I've nearly finished the units; I hope those were the worst (with almost 100 settings to figure out).

But I'm missing a few. Does anyone know:

1) What's the difference between bSuicidal and bExplodeInCombat?

2) What setting means "Cannot be built"?

3) What setting means "Not alive"?

4) Are the Gypsy Wagon and Inquisitors special abilities set in the XML?

5) Why does a fireball say "Can bombard city defenses (-15%/turn)" in the game, when iBombardRate = 10 in the XML?

1) bSuicidal means the unit dies after combat. bExplodeInCombat means you'll get an explosion where the unit was when it died (if in combat).

2) Cost at negative number.

3) Some promotions.

4) Inquisitors ability to remove religions is a spell. Gypsy wagons are handled in python (CvEventManager.py)

5) Don't know.

2) particularly applies to great peoples, mages/conjurers, archmages/summoners, inquisitors/priests, immortals ... and maybe some more (mercenaries, slaves ?). (units that can only be gained through event or bought or through upgrade)
I think this setting is specifically/manually inserted for each of those units by inserting a negative hammer requirement in the xml.

3) promotions giving the "not-alive" setting are : "golem" "angel" "demon" "undead" and .. the one for siege weapons.

Ship's are also non-alive. Most likely handled the same way as Siege Weapons are. Illusion Promotion is also non-living (but not illusionist).

A unit that explodes (Pyre Zombie?) is supposed to damage other units in adjacent tiles I believe. Last I saw of it, not working though.

Loki has same ability as the Gypsy wagon (plus some more), and I am pretty sure snarko is correct, they call Python. Most python calls actually say Python (or .py) in them, so should be somewhat easily identified. Python isn't horrific to understand, so if you were able to make this, you can probably read it and possibly have it draw information from there as well.

Thanks; I found the gypsy wagon and Loki in the Python scripts; they're actually handled by onCityDoTurn (not tied directly to the unit like spell scripts are).

Drawing information from the scripts is a little too ambitious for me, but seems possible. I'm satisfied with simply describing their effects in the Civilopedia text.

The Pyro Zombies are not effectively exploding ? (I'm heavily producing them against an army of wood golem, but seems I will regret it?)

From what I read in the bug thread a while back, there is an issue with it. But I don't recall what the precise issue was and never tested it. But it stuck in my mind since I never knew about it before.

Can you please put a link to shrine-wonders under each religion?

Can you please put a link to shrine-wonders under each religion?

Yeah, I'm working on it. ;)

I've almost finished the spells, world spells, and abilities. I'd planned to work on promotions next, but I could do buildings and wonders instead.

When I add the buildings they'll automatically link to and from the religions.

Just as an advanced request for when you get to them: When you do the spell promotions, can you list the details of the promotions they grant and creatures they summon instead of just the names of what they let you cast?

That's a good idea. I don't know how to do it yet, but it's a good idea.

I did create an automatic spell chart (http://phrasr.com/ffh/pedia.php?v=spell_chart).

Can you deduce the normal (non civilization unique) unit which cannot be built by each specific civ (for example which units cannot be built by Sheiam exactly)?

I like the spell Chart, but that isn't what opens when I click on "Spells" in the menu. And with how easily you can link through the pages it isn't too bad that there is no list like what I thought of (though that is still a handy idea).

One other nifty idea that I can't be very helpful with "how to do it:" Can you get it to show what Civilization/Leaders can cast each world spell?

Can you deduce the normal (non civilization unique) unit which cannot be built by each specific civ (for example which units cannot be built by Sheiam exactly)?

Yes, but it's a long list. For example, every civilization other than the Grigori would say "Can't build adventurers".


One other nifty idea that I can't be very helpful with "how to do it:" Can you get it to show what Civilization/Leaders can cast each world spell?

The civilizations do list the world spell, now, at the very end. I added a "(world spell)" note to make that more obvious. Adding that to the leaders would be more difficult.

No, I meant the other way around. When you click on World Spells it lists them all, but doesn't say which civ can cast each one till you click on the link for that spell.

ie:

Instead of displaying: Arcane Lacuna display Arcane Lacuna (Amurite)

On the Alignments:
Good should list "Allows Paladin + Cannot adopt Undercouncil"
And Evil likewise should display Cannot adopt Overcouncil


For units, you can probably ditch the lines "Worth 8 XP when attacked and killed
Worth 4 XP when killed by a defender," XP will scale based on difference in Level between the attacker and defender and other factors as I recall. I don't think I have ever been able to get 8 XP off a single kill, other than taking down Hero units. But typically you will get 1 XP per combat after level 6 unless playing against other humans who also field high level units.

Ahh, that would definitely be useful. Hmm...

Oops, should have checked if you were online before editing 5 times :p If you read the posts like I do you'll miss my bit about units and XP.

I did create an automatic spell chart (http://phrasr.com/ffh/pedia.php?v=spell_chart).

Nice work to base the content of your civilopedia on the current versions of the FFH-XML-Files. Should have thought of this myself. :)

Your spell chart seems somehow familiar and sadly makes my own spell chart, which I worked on the last two evenings, kind of redundant. Anyway, would be nice if your's would be in colour too and had some nice ingame graphics. Feel free to get inspired by my version of a spell chart:

Link to my Spell Chart (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167653&d=1200439973)

Overall, I would suggest to use a smaller and more legible font to make your Civilopedia easier to read.

I love your spell chart. I was considering asking for permission to use it and overlay my links as an image map.

I'd venture to say he already based it off your design. :)

But I still like your chart because of the color (ease of scanning. BTW, dimensional breaks the alternating colors scheme) and the inclusion of Religious capabilities.

I love your spell chart. I was considering asking for permission to use it and overlay my links as an image map.

No problem at all, I would love to see it as a part of your project, but I suppose it might be better (and a lot of work, I know) to redo it in HTML and PHP altogether. Otherwise you might run into a problem with your image map when a new version of FFH is released.

However, just tell me if you want the original file anyway and I will send it to you. I will try to convert it in the format of your choice, if you can't open xlsx files on your machine. You might not believe it, but I created the whole chart with the help of Excel 2007. Mea culpa! :crazyeye:

BTW, dimensional breaks the alternating colors scheme

Oh my god, you are right. I must have been blind! I'm going to fix this.

EDIT: Btw, is Banish an Ashen Veil spell? Doesn't sound so "veilish", even though it is Entropy.

I created the whole chart with the help of Excel 2007. Mea culpa! :crazyeye:

Smart! I didn't realize Excel 2007 could export images. (or is it a screenshot?)

Yes, but it's a long list. For example, every civilization other than the Grigori would say "Can't build adventurers".


I thought it may be possible to make the difference between unique units (like adventurer) which are displayed as unique for the specifiquer civ, and forbiden unit which are allowed for everyone except the current civ or so.

I thought it may be possible to make the difference between unique units (like adventurer) which are displayed as unique for the specifiquer civ, and forbiden unit which are allowed for everyone except the current civ or so.

You're right, that's also possible, but not as easy. I'll add that to the wishlist. :)

Smart! I didn't realize Excel 2007 could export images. (or is it a screenshot?)

It's possible with some third party plugins, I heard, but in this case it is just a screenshot made with the best screenshot tool ever.


Link to the just uploaded version 1.1.3. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167685&d=1200509620)

Yes, but it's a long list. For example, every civilization other than the Grigori would say "Can't build adventurers".


Well, actually no civ, including the Grigori, can build adventurers. They are only gained through GPP.

I just noticed that the CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml file (Which is where you can find everything a civ is forbidden from building) does make other civs have "NONE" as their replacement for it, but that seems completely pointless as they have a cost of -1 anyway, and so cannot be built. Other units with cost of -1 that cannot be built, like Gurid the giant gorilla, don't have a UU of NONE for all the civs.

(I'm also pretty sure that when you cheat and give yourself an adventurer point granting building as some other civ that you still get adventurers, so it doesn't seem like this distinction does absolutely anything.)

Someone really should sticky this, like the old wiki was.

I like the spell layout, but maybe it would look better if you underlined the mana that allows the spells, so it is easier to differentiate. Thats just a nitpick though.

It'll be far better when he links the graphical spell chart from Jean Elcard in :) Till then, look up a couple posts (or in my sig) and bookmark the graphical version.

Wow, I missed the spell chart, it really is nice.
Keal should get it uploaded, or give Taels the ability to upload it, to the Fanatics server, his is running a little slow with all the traffic (I think).

Unfortunately a multicolumn script I grabbed from the web seems to be very slow.

Is my server loading slowly for you only on lists with many entries, like the units and spells, or is every page slow?

The longer the lists the slower it takes. It seems to have all the information quickly, but then it takes a while to organize it into columns.

An Update

I worked a bit more yesterday, and added Wiki pages and customizable layouts. (I also improved the multicolumn script last week; hopefully the site is more responsive now.)

Wiki

I'm programming my own wiki code to integrate with the Civilopedia. Most of the basic wiki formatting is working (except tables), and like any proper wiki, nothing is ever deleted. I haven't written code to display the history list yet, but I am tracking the information I need for that.

The wiki integrates seamlessly with the Civilopedia. [[Falamar]], for example, links to Falamar's civilopedia entry. But actually wikifying and editing the Civilopedia entries remains only a vision.

Does anyone have good backups of the wiki? As a start, I've added the few Wiki pages I could find on the Wayback Machine, but that wasn't much. I'd especially like to find the introduction to the magic system, and the diagram of the magic spheres and gods.

Layout

I also changed the default layout. The new layout is still based on Kael's beautiful site, just smaller.

But because I'm a terrible graphic designer, I'm working on a system that will allow anyone to create, edit, and choose layouts. It's not finished, but it's open for play in the "Display Options" (http://phrasr.com/ffh/layouts.php).

Is this the diagram of the magic spheres you wanted?

Yep, that's the one.

If I remember correctly, that was part of the old Wiki's magic overview. Do you, by chance, have that also?

I saw that you had the Wiki set up earlier last night, and already made one change (Warg Rider changed to Wolfrider), which was properly reflected. At that point it didn't link to the unit yet, nor have the nifty "Link is in red if there is no relevant data page" effect from Wiki, but that is completely minor, and I was probably poking around in it while you were setting things up still :)

I'm considering not reddifying the missing links. It's a useful feature, but consumes a lot of resources to look up every link.

Personally I'd say it is better off gone. If it means faster loading times and whatnot.

The more streamlined layout is pretty nice too. One thing I'd like to mention is that the Units link displays in columns just fine on my laptop (IE 6 browser... my wife won't let me upgrade her to anything else), but it doesn't go into columns on my work computer (Firefox, seems quite unmodified).

That's odd; the Units display in columns for me in Firefox on Windows and OS X. Do you have Javascript disabled?

Could be. Work computer, and new to the lab, so I haven't had time to play with all of the settings quite yet. Barely had enough time to clear the 50 or so trojans and other viruses they had on the thing :(

Just checked and it shows that Java is allowed to do everything but affect the Status Bar. Firefox is version 1.0.7, don't use it yet myself, so can't tell if that is recent or not. But a very minor issue, and most likely just for me if it works fine for you and nobody else has mentioned it :)

Just noticed on the Arcance Barge that the Pre-Req's are wrong, I think you aren't parsing the secondary pre-requisites:

<TechTypes>
<PrereqTech>TECH_SORCERY</PrereqTech>
<PrereqTech>NONE</PrereqTech>
<PrereqTech>NONE</PrereqTech>
</TechTypes>

Also be nice if it included the information from: <PrereqBuildingClass>, <PrereqBuilding>, <PrereqCivic>, <PrereqAlignment>, <PrereqReligion>, <PrereqCorporation> & <iPrereqGlobalCounter>

Yep, that's the one.

If I remember correctly, that was part of the old Wiki's magic overview. Do you, by chance, have that also?
No. I got the mana diagram from a thread here, but it was a while ago and I do not remember where (in case the other diagram could be found there).

I've had a diagram in my sig for a while, but there is really no difference, probably from the same spot.

...bump...

I haven't been able to work on this over the last two weeks, but I haven't forgotten, and didn't want it to get buried.

Is what I've finished so far useful?

Very ! (to be able to design strategy at work!)

Hey Taels, this is really great stuff. Brilliant idea about linkung to Xml files, as it means it automatically updates itself with each new patch.

Obviously it's dependant on Kael and team, but would it be possible to access this whilst in game as a replacement for the Civilopedia?

Edit: Just thought that through...would mean you'd require internet link to play FFh2, so probably not good. But maybe as an addition to current civilopedia.

If you mean to access the Wiki-style text while in game, he is going to develop a way to have it do a text dump so it can be used ingame. If you mean for formatting, that would take some hefty work :)

Otherwise, just ALT + TAB :)

I meant for reference only.... cool.. thanks, It just so much better and cross referenced than current Civpedia.

My pet hate is to look up mana type to find spell type to find "allows xxx promotion" only to find promotion type says "allows spell XXX"

AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!

Taels you save my sanity! :)

:)

I'm glad I could help.

I only regret that it's not completely finished yet, and other projects are keeping me from working on it this month. But it shall be done, someday.

OTOH, displaying it in game is probably impossible; I don't think Python scripts in Civ4 can access the web. But I could be wrong. And as xienwolf said, I plan to export data to use with the regular in game Civilopedia.