Hi there,

I'm a newby, but I read a lot on these forum/war academy getting me all the way up to Noble,.. :king: Thnx to community for that :rolleyes:

Now my question: I'm busy experimenting with SE-economy and as soon as possible I go for pacifism for the GPP. Only trouble I'm a warmonger I was wondering. Should I run a other civic ore just pay Gold en and get the extra GPP ?

Pacifism+war=death. If you build enough units to stop from getting killed, the maintenance will kill you. 1 :gold: per unit is HUGE.

^
I Still think a Pacifist warmonger sounds cool :-(,...

I just did some math and concluded your absolute right, butt I'm wondering if you're still right in Industrial, modern age. I didn't come that far in a SE.

Odd, I just heard about an AI adopting Pacifism and then delcaring war....

If you have an absolutely break-neck economy you might be able to swing it... BUt bottom line, it'll place a *way* higher tax on your economy than using another civic.. Oddly enough, would be much more viable with a cottage economy due to the raw money you bring in compared to a specialist economy - but that's not what you want.

Middle-late to late game it's certainly doable. This is because your population should be high such that you can support more units for free, as well as the civic costs would be rather high such that the 0 maintenance from pacifism would make this doable. But if you want to build a sizable army with plenty of leeway for bad combat odds, it might put quite a drain on your economy.

It's most likely not worht it...

The comments above are good - Good economy does help, High Population does help, and in both cases it is still a drain on your economy.

Another Note is: You might overestimate the impact of Pacifism on the total amount Great People you get over the course of the game. I.E. if you are PHILO and running a NE GPP farm. Pacifism does help, but the impact might not be worth the drain you would put on your economy.

I tend to only use pacifism during golden ages. The extra economy offsets the cost, I can switch to it for free in the golden age, and now with the two together I'm getting +200% GP rate!!

Then just switch back out before the age ends. Its a nice way to bump up the GP without a huge hit to your coffers.

Pacifist warmonger is the same as saying that youre a gay hetrosexual, or something :P Doesnt mix very well.

It certainly works, and I've used it several times myself with SE. I wouldn't use it with CE, since then you'd have to divert your :commerce: to upkeep, while in SE it's going to be used on your army or happiness anyway.

It obviously does drain more of your money, so you need to carefully consider it. For instance, make sure you have a backup :gold: source if the unit supply and :culture:-slider costs turn out to be too much. I usually end up producing :gold: with some of my production cities if this happens. Check how much war weariness you can take before going to war. Don't use too much units, since the more you have the more the upkeep costs; in other words, try to use better units than your opponent.

In any case, Pacifism+warmongering is not game technically as ridiculous as it sounds.

Hhis is quite bad idea, those few GPP you gain will never pay off for the maintance you have to pay for a decent army. On the other side it can be extremly fun to use a spy to make the AI swich to pacifisme during a war :lol:.


Does ozganized actually cut down the maintance from pacifisme.

Keep Pacifism during peacetime, switch to Theocracy during war to get the +2XP for your units.

After attaining your war objectives, disband all extra units and switch back to Pacifism. SPI leader is really handy for warmongers.

I must be doing something very right, because I never see a big problem having as big an army as I want and keeping pacifism. Disband units?! After collecting all that valuable experience?! NO WAY.

I must be doing something very right, because I never see a big problem having as big an army as I want and keeping pacifism. Disband units?! After collecting all that valuable experience?! NO WAY.

Depends. A few times in wars against people like Gandhi, Hatsheput, and Mansa Musa, I've actually kept pacifism running during wars on monarch or below... When fighting someone like Monty, Ragnar, or Boadacia, particularly on higher difficulties, their units are heavily upgraded and they build tons of units, so the wars are longer, require me to build more, and generally more messy - so I really start to notice the burn from pacifism. On Emperor I can rarely keep pacifism going even during a limited conflict, and on immortal not even close. Though, if you're playing Darius or something, it would certainly make it easier - then again, one of the most frequent lines I see in this forum is "Try it with Darius" because playing him is pretty close to dropping a difficulty level, so your experience him will usually be a heck of a lot easier than if you were playing Mao or someone.

Adopting the strange "Vassalage/Pacifism" combination can help mitigate this, particularly if you don't have a very "Bureaucratic" capital, like if you are heavily SE, since, as I understand it, vasslage will make some of the units have free maintenance. I may not have this right though. It also works nicely because if you are going to build any units at all, they may as well be elite since you won't have many.

I don't think that vassalage removes the pacifism maintance and vassalage is also a high-upkeep civic and it's upkeep is usually higher than the unit upkeep you safe.

Qwertz,

I was afraid of that. I don't think this would come up much anyway... if I ever test it, I'll post here. It would be cool if Vassalage's bonus helped offset pacifism, but I think you are probably right; whenever I go into Vassalage (extemely rare), I get out of it as soon as possible because it is so expensive and provides no economic benefit as does Bureaucracy, unless you count the economic benefit of having XP 7 units coming out and owning your neighbours before 500 AD!

when you're under Pacifism during a war run lots of Merchant Specialist... I reckon this would be ok during the middle game, Late game beeline and construct Christo Render wonder and you won't have to worry about Warmonger under Pacifism because of anarchy free civic switches.