View Full Version : Spoiler thread for China (Council PBEM)
Jan 16, 2008, 05:25 PM
I've not been very good at updating my spoiler page and I need an easy place to keep track of things in this game so I'm following the lead of some others and opening a spoiler thread.
First a bit of history:
Regretfully I did not learn my lesson about saving huts and popped the first one I saw getting barbarians. Ended up losing my only worker to them. :mad: Well, it's my own fault. Popa Cornitza (Niklas) found me long ago and offered a thousand year peace treaty which I failed to respond to fo a couple thousand years. Oops. Well, I've done so now and we have peace for some turns - I can't remember how many. :blush: I also made a teach deal with him. He gave me ceremonial burial and mysticism and in return I've started polytheism. It's a long project. (I'll try to start posting screenies next update.)
The Carthaginians (Hasdrubal Barca) have also found me. They offered to sell ceremonial burial but I got if from Popa C so I bought alphabet from them for 4gpt.
A French ship (zyxy) found me as well. I traded them bronze working and 1gpt for horseback riding.
I currently have four cities and two workers. Have a warrior in the north hovering near another hut that I'm trying to save. Have an archer out exploring. Have ivory connected to a couple cities but not the capital - since the barbs pillaged the area long ago.
Jan 17, 2008, 07:06 AM
Sounds like a less than powerful start - that's too bad!
But good diplomacy can cure almost any map problem ;)
ps - I've checked your spoiler page on your website a few times. Are you going to forgo that one and only update this thread?
Jan 17, 2008, 08:23 AM
Yeah I think I'll stop adding to that. A spoiler thread is much easier. I've played turn 62 and forgot to take screen shots. :(
I can now see the Carthaginian capital on the mini-map so Hasdrubal Barca must have established an embassy. He told me Popa C / Niklas is between us and I finally found the land bridge to the east.
Completed trade with the French / zyxy and offered iron working. I had to zip a quick note off to him because I'd already told him I had nothing more to trade.
Part of the bad start is due to me impatiently popping a hut and getting barbarians - who captured my only worker and pillaged near my capitol city. :( I'm finding it difficult to expand now for lack of settlers. I have four cities all size one or two. Only have one tile with three food. Have one city making workers and using the capitol to make archers and settlers but it is a long process. At least horses and iron are nearby. All I have to do is survive long enough to make use of them.
Have 6g and polytheism is 29 turns away. In four turns I should be able to disperse a barb camp and them run a deficit for a bit.
Jan 17, 2008, 08:52 AM
North east-ish of Mt Peasant is a cow on a river. Is there a good city site in that area? That might be a pretty decent settler factory if there are some bg's around.
Jan 17, 2008, 11:09 AM
I've got a city there. Need to clear the barbs and get some workers up there.
Jan 18, 2008, 11:40 AM
Turn 63: OK, think I've made a deal with the Diva (zyxy). I get writing he gets iron working and 2gpt. But I could only send 1gpt right now. Will have to send another when I can afford it. Mt Pleasant was about to riot so I hired a taxman so I could afford the 1gpt. In two turns I'll have another MP in the capitol and can work the gold hill, which will also help with beakers. Once I get the capitol reconnected to the ivory I should be able to pay the other gpt.
Jan 20, 2008, 05:28 PM
Turn 65: Road to the capitol rebuilt. Fired the scientist, worked the gold hill and raised science another notch. Poly in 22. Queued a horse then settler in Mt. Pleasant. Will have two new settlers in ten turns. Need to plug the gap if it's not too late. Should be able to clear a barb camp next turn.
Jan 24, 2008, 10:38 PM
One of Paul's curraghs is visible so now I have contact with the Byzantines. I have nothing to offer them. :(
zyxy (France) is reconsidering our proposed poly trade since I'm so far from completing it. (16 turns away.) He offered to loan me some gold to speed the project. Trouble is he also wants 5gpt along with poly for lit and math. So I've decided I can't afford literature. I wrote back and suggested we alter the trade and make it poly for just math along with 70g. With 70g I can get poly in 11 turns.
I then wrote to Popa / Niklas and asked him if I could borrow some gold.
Next I wrote to Hasdrubal Barca (Carthage) and told him I was researching polytheism. Asked if he was interested in trading for it later. Also asked him for a loan - and even offered to pay interes. :D
Finally, I wrote to Lady Paula (Byzantines) and gave her the same line about potential poly trades and asked for a loan. (I promised all I would shut off research after poly to repay the loans.)
We will see what responses I get.
Switched over all but the capitol to granaries.
Jan 25, 2008, 07:05 AM
You'll either wind up very rich, or very poor ;)
It will be interesting to see how this plays out!
Jan 25, 2008, 08:51 AM
I wouldn't repay Carthage but over pay niklas. So you can get some good will going between the two of you and plus Hadrasculs pm tje other side of the world.
Jan 25, 2008, 10:12 AM
Can't wait to see what responses I get to my overtures.
Niklas has actually been giving me the best deals so far and seems the closest to me - though my knowledge of the world is scant at this point. :(
Feb 04, 2008, 10:12 PM
Spotted an Ottoman curragh. Need to write to Aigburth and peddle polytheism.
BTW, no one offered to loan me gold to speed up my research. I told zyxy I wanted to trade poly for math and gold instead of poly and gold for math and lit. He suggested poly and 5gpt got math and code of laws.
Feb 11, 2008, 09:55 PM
Lots of trade negotiations. Looks like Niklas is selling poly to H. Barca who is selling it to Aigburth. :( Still, for giving poly to Niklas he gave me ceremonial burial and mysticism and 360 beakers credit towards another tech. So I can't complain.
I've sealed a deal with zyxy to give him poly and 5gpt for code of laws and math. At least I'll be done paying H. Barca by then.
Paul offered code of laws, math and some gold for poly! Makes zyxy's deal look expensive. :hmm: Well, I wrote back and said I couldn't make that deal and inquired about map making, currency or construction.
Poly in 6 but I'll be broke and won't be able to continue the deficit spending - unless Paul comes through with some gold next turn.
Feb 14, 2008, 08:11 AM
Lady Paula sent 40g! Poly will be done in 3. Trying to get her to buy poly for 120g (the 40g would be applied against that). Niklas has offered to sell me techs at 25% and I'm inclined to accept that deal to get into the MA. I need to get expanding. Also have that hut I want to pop some time after poly is done. The ideal time seems to be after all the trades are done but before I buy anything from Niklas.
Feb 20, 2008, 07:27 AM
Rec'd map making from Niklas. Learned polytheism. Sent it to Niklas, Paul(a) (with 20g) and zyxy (with 5gpt). Still owe Paul(a) 65g and will get currency in return. zyxy will send code of laws and math. Still need philosophy (I forgot about that one :eek: ), construction and a good government. Turned off research, making 22gpt but will lose 5gpt when zyxy accepts the deal. My 4gpt payments to H. Barca end in a couple turns. Niklas said he'd sell me techs at 25% so it looks like I'm better off purchasing philo than researching it. Plan to send Paul(a) 25g and 2gpt in a couple turns to settle that debt. So, the question is, do I set research to philosophy and pop the hut or wait some more, buy philo (in like 5 turns) then set research to construction and hope to pop monarchy or republic. Oh, wait, there's still literature. I'll need to set research to that before popping the hut so I should wait till I get philosophy.
I need to concentrate now on more cities. I'm in last place and woefully behind the others. Two cities will grow in two turns, one completing a temple and the other a granary. The capitol will start on a new settler. Not sure if the other one will start a settler or a spear for mp duty. I can only have one more unit free of support costs.
Mar 07, 2008, 08:54 AM
I've finally got another settler ready. Started two but turned one into a horseman to go after the hut in the north. (The warrior I had guarding it for centuries died attacking a barbarian.) It'll cost 200g to buy construction if I don't pop that tech. I traded poly to Carthage for literacy and 20g - though H. Barca has now forgotten twice to send the gold.
Carthage has also attacked Niklas who has lost one city and abandoned a couple more. He has sent 40g for safekeeping and asked for my help in the war. I don't have much of a military - 2 horse, 4 archers, 2 spears, 3 warriors and one sword. The latter upgraded from a warrior for 60g. I plan to settle near the choke point between Niklas and China and get a road that was ASAP. Still it will take many turns for me to get any forces into Mayaland, especially since I can still see three barb horses and there is lots of land in the fog.
Mar 22, 2008, 06:15 PM
Niklas sent construction and 25g. He sent 40g some turns ago for safe keeping. he must be on the ropes. I accepted his gracious offer. It put me into the middle ages (finally) but means I'll not pop a tech from the goody hut I've been saving. Just as well - the horse I sent to the hut is down to one hp and is in range of barbs. :( I sent me newest horse that way. I need to clear these barbs. At least there is a village I can get 25g from - if the new horse doesn't die. He has a spear for cover.
Sending a horse and spear against the northern barbarians means that much less is available for the southern barbarians. Once Niklas is gone I see no reason why H. Barca won't continue against me. The only chance I have is getting to riders. I've had research off for some turns now - been upgrading my warriors to swords. Niklas does look in bad shape:
The city to the NW of is capitol is undefended and had a Carthaginian horseman and mercenary adjacent. I was also adjacent and considered declaring war on Niklas to try to save the city from the southern barbarians but decided it wasn't the right thing to do. Didn't think declaring war on H. Barca would save the city either.
I finally built my fifth city (Altamonte Springs) and have another settler due next turn. The new settler will build a city on the gold hill near the narrow point. That seems like the best place to defend against the southern barbarians. I hope Niklas can send me another tech.
Mar 30, 2008, 05:33 PM
So here it ends for me. Good luck with your future endeavors, and against the barbarians in brown. ;)
Mar 30, 2008, 06:12 PM
I will need some luck. If I were H.B. I'd blast right through China. I don't have much to stop him. I did secure a peace treaty for 30 turns. Have to do some serious beefing up before that time runs out.
Apr 27, 2008, 06:23 PM
Sultan Aigburth wrote and asked me to join an exclusive tech club. Had to tell him I am currently under the thumb of the brown barbarian. Carthage did send feudalism. I'm still paying Paul 6gpt for republic and H. Barca 13gpt for feudalism. I have contracted with the latter for monotheism for 16gpt. I've asked for a delay in this payment so I can switch to republic. Will have a couple more settlers ready by then. Hope to settle so as to connect gems soon. Asked the Sultan if he'd sell me chivalry cheap. Almost have the white barbarians under control.
Apr 28, 2008, 07:55 AM
Thanks for the update :)
Hopefully this will spur some of the others to post news.
May 04, 2008, 07:14 AM
Can trade with the brown barbarians now. Not sure if that's because he completed a road or due to my new harbor. Carthage is the only one with anything to trade (dyes) so I send ivory.
Have two settlers moving. One will settle near the gems the other, I'm not sure. He's headed towards the desert. Not a great spot but there are still white barbarians in the south to deal with. :(
Next turn I'll have two more settlers. I checked CA II (since I downloaded it again to check our beakers in the MTDG) and see that right not there isn't much difference for me between despotism, feudalism or republic. Need more cities and an FP.
Still paying out 19gpt. 6gpt to Paul for 6 more turns and 13gpt to H. Barca for 11 turns. Have over 300g and making 15gpt. Research is off.
May 04, 2008, 07:42 AM
I've always thought that, unless unit costs would kill me, it's a good idea to get out of despotism ASAP - in a food poor start like this, it might be more important - you can better leverage your wheat and floodplains to expand faster/have more workers.
May 04, 2008, 05:52 PM
Good point AT. I hadn't thought about the despotism penalties. With two settlers coming out next turn and H. Barca wanting me to start sending gold for monotheism turn 111 might be a good one for a revolution.
May 06, 2008, 03:35 PM
Started my revolution. Will have five turns of anarchy. Sent 16gpt to H. Barca for future delivery of monotheism. Running a 29gpt deficit through anarchy but I have over 300g.
Will shop around for chivalry next.
May 07, 2008, 10:46 AM
5 turns - that's not too bad a roll of the fickle RNG!
Jun 01, 2008, 08:29 AM
China is still lowest in score by far. :( Rec'd invention from Carthage (H. Barca). Trying to buy theology but I think the sellers are reluctant since I have honestly told them I must buy with no strings attached so I can trade to Carthage. I have an agreement with H. Barca for invention, gunpowder and chemistry (from him) for engineering, chivalry, theology and education (from me).
Will finish researching chivalry in six turns. I have one extra ivory and working to connect another plus an extra gem source. Carthage has another lux I can trade the gems for. Have been a republic for awhile now and have built my first market.
Working to make settlers to fill my land before anyone else settles here. Too many foreign ships for my liking. China is not a maritime civ.
Will feel safer once I have chivalry. Have 385g and a small surplus. 16gpt payment to Carthage also has only three turns left. Paying 12gpt for unit costs but will eventually offset that with new cities.
Still bound to Carthage. This is due more and more to the fact that there are two partnerships of two players each rather than my fear of the brown barbarian to the south.
Jun 08, 2008, 05:41 PM
The 16gpt payment to Carthage has not ended. When I try to end it the game crashes. I have pmmed H. Barca about this. If it is not resolved next turn I will have to post in the game thread that the save is corrupted.
The Ottomans have a settler on the southern tip of my landmass. I have pmmed Aigburth that this will strain our good relationship.
I have had to slow my research to chivalry.
Jun 09, 2008, 05:38 AM
Got a reply from Sultan Aigburth. He points out that a city on the tip on my landmass is just and extension of his cultural borders. He suggests we agree on a sphere of influence. I wrote back and asked if he had a specific proposal but pointed out that I consider the sea to be a natural barrier between us. I'm leaning towards taking a hard line here.
I have two settlers moving in that direction now.
Jun 23, 2008, 04:08 PM
Tensions continue to be high over the French and Ottoman cities on China's west coast. I have occupied the land tiles with the cultural radius of these two cities. I hesitate to declare war on them and give them war happiness but if I wait too long they will surely attack me somewhere else when I'm not looking. :eek:
Jun 23, 2008, 04:21 PM
for what it's worth, if you declare and take a city from them, you'll pretty much undo whatever happiness you give them immediately. Losing a city really hits with the weariness.
Jun 23, 2008, 05:08 PM
Hadn't thought of that. Another thing to consider is my golden age. Most of my military consists of riders so I'd be initiating my golden age if I attack. I haven't even settled all my land yet nor have I built a forbidden palace so a golden age seems a bit premature. But I'm woefully behind anyway.
Jun 26, 2008, 10:11 AM
On the other hand, the GA may have a bigger effect now than later. if you GA soon, the boost will give you a bigger jump in production. If you GA later, once you have a fully developed civ, it's not as much. A GA, for instance, for a size 5 city making 5 shields on 5 tiles doubles production. A GA for a size 8 city making 15 shields (from hills/forests) jumps production by 1/2.
Riders are a great UU and, I think, are the best thing out there until cavalry. If you are going to war at some point anyway, doing so now might be a good plan. Course, I'd try to ensure that you can KEEP those cities - make peace only if they agree to refuse culture flips (are culture flips on in this game?)