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Wow, this is exactly the type of map I like to play! I'll be watching this closely. :)

looks awesome =D

Will it be possible to remove all island starts as part of the script? Personally I find water gaps (such as in the continents map) difficult for the AI to comprehend and generally limiting.

Interesting, this reminds me of the old game "Warlords" :lol:

Very promising, I'm looking forward to testing the first release!

I play Global_Highlands often to get this sort of map type. I enjoy it a lot.

Uber rivers make for fun lewis and clarke explorations. In fact I've taken to renaming my early warriors/scouts to such things in the spirit of things

Uber rivers make for fun lewis and clarke explorations.

:confused:
:confused:
:confused:
:crazyeye:
...what?

Looks Great:goodjob:
There'll be alot of farms, and griffins/azers will be useful for attacking from Valley to Valley.

Will you be able to make civs start in more appropriate areas, or is it too hard? Like the Lanun having a coastal valley, the Khazak in a hilly one, Illians in icy?

@ Skallben
Lewis and Clarke were American explorers who were the first to see th Pacific. In other words they went from East to West first.

And to put the mention of their names into context: Lewis and Clark's guide, Sacagewa, led them along river routes for the majority of the trip, as rafting would allow for faster travel (no roads, obviously), and the river would lead you to a pass for getting through the mountains.

@ Skallben
Lewis and Clarke were American explorers who were the first to see th Pacific. In other words they went from East to West first.

I thought Cuteunit referred to the Superman-spinoff TV-show :lol: :crazyeye: :sad:
I actually imagined Superman flying with his girlie through a massive river between the mountain passes...err forget it.

Allright, I blame my lack U.S history knowledge on being european, our history is more interesting anyways :lol:
Nah just poking fun, there are some interesting parts in U.S history - there is just a lack of "epic-ness" IMHO since the country is so young.

When you get to putting passes in I think it would work really well if you topped each one with a den, burrow, or ruin of some kind, to make it harder to "steal" someone elses valley.

This looks very promising, I love highland maps, but the valleys can be a bit too small, these look great.

When you get to putting passes in I think it would work really well if you topped each one with a den, burrow, or ruin of some kind, to make it harder to "steal" someone elses valley.

This looks very promising, I love highland maps, but the valleys can be a bit too small, these look great.

unfortunately, the dens, burrow and ruins are placed automatically from the dll in FFH I believe. Presumably so you can use any normal Civ map script. I don't think this procedure is exposed to python, but I could be wrong. The same is true for watchtowers etc.

Allright, I blame my lack U.S history knowledge on being european, our history is more interesting anyways :lol:
Nah just poking fun, there are some interesting parts in U.S history - there is just a lack of "epic-ness" IMHO since the country is so young.

As an american, they naturally taught us about Lewis and Clark, but it's only a couple years ago that I learned that a Canadian guy made a similar journey before Lewis and Clarks time. Pretty much anywhere you go, the history is quite interesting.

I thought Cuteunit referred to the Superman-spinoff TV-show :lol: :crazyeye: :sad:
I actually imagined Superman flying with his girlie through a massive river between the mountain passes...err forget it.

Allright, I blame my lack U.S history knowledge on being european, our history is more interesting anyways :lol:
Nah just poking fun, there are some interesting parts in U.S history - there is just a lack of "epic-ness" IMHO since the country is so young.

The lack of the mountains of salt and volcanoes was a shame
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lewisandclark/

Ou of curiosity, are you able to make regions that start out as hell. With fire etc.? Naturally, no one would start there, but it would look awesome. Looking forward to the map!:goodjob:

In one of the screenshots it shows one valley completly unacesssable by land to any other section. is that intended?

In one of the screenshots it shows one valley completly unacesssable by land to any other section. is that intended?

This is just an early example of the bare bones. Making it all actually function and look good is the next step.

Cephalo:
This mapscript seems really cool but as a frequent Lanun-player I do like some "Globe-maps" aswell, is it possible for you to adapt your BTS-mapscript to work with FFH aswell or is that to ask too much?

Cephalo:
This mapscript seems really cool but as a frequent Lanun-player I do like some "Globe-maps" aswell, is it possible for you to adapt your BTS-mapscript to work with FFH aswell or is that to ask too much?

Actually, PerfectWorld works fine with FFH. At the beginning of the file, there is an option to turn off the 'new world' now, so you don't have goofy things like Hyborem spawning away from everyone. Other than that, I'm not aware of any issues.

Duh I mixed up the scripts...Ill try yours.

How is this coming cephalo?

Any chance starting points would be able to be tied to realistic locations? You know, elves in forests, dwarves in hills, malakim in desert, ect.

How is this coming cephalo?

Any chance starting points would be able to be tied to realistic locations? You know, elves in forests, dwarves in hills, malakim in desert, ect.

That shouldn't be a problem all, as long I can get a map script that produces a little of everything.

Right now I'm working on some experimental climate rules. Temperature is easy because on a map like this it can follow with altitude, and for that, using the river system to determine altitude is working out well. I've got things 'bumpier' as you go up the river system and I like it so far.

For rainfall, I'm deciding on a spot on the coast that is wettest, and making things drier for each region as they get further away from that spot. I haven't seen the results of that yet. I imagine there's going to be some more experimintation before I'm ready to show anything.

Ok, the first playable version is posted on the first post!

I am still using default starting plots and resource placement. I haven't decided what to do about those yet. I know certain Civs have their preferences, but do Malakim really want to start in the desert? I haven't played .30 yet so I'm not sure what new stuff might have gone in that might affect these decisions.

Thanks for the update cephalo. I hope to try this soon.

I just tried a couple 200 or so turn games, just to see how things play out. Love the map script - this is very appropriate for this mod. Also have played your PerfectWorld (well, Seven05's version, which is (mostly) the same as yours) script many times and really enjoy that as well. Keep up the good work - looking forward to seeing how this progresses. As it stands, for the most part it works as stated. Occasionally you'll still end up in areas blocked by mountains, but I think its actually more strategically interesting that way - assuming you're not trapped inland of course, which would be annoying. Terrain/Weather Patterns are natural and realistic - I love that aspect. Always hated the fractal patternings of most other scripts, they never felt natural enough to me.

I'm wondering if the world-sizes might need some tweaking though. I can comfortably get a good 12-15 civs on a standard map - intentional? I'd hate to see how big Large and Huge maps are... heheh.

I'm wondering if the world-sizes might need some tweaking though. I can comfortably get a good 12-15 civs on a standard map - intentional? I'd hate to see how big Large and Huge maps are... heheh.

Yeah, with such a high percentage of land on the map I knew that I'd have to make the maps smaller, but I might have to make them smaller still. Glad you liked the exploration phase. I still haven't tried it! Will right now.

Also, I forgot to re-enable the starting plot normalization for this map, so I'm sure some of the starts are going to be horrible. I'll be overhauling that at some point anyway.

Any chance starting points would be able to be tied to realistic locations? You know, elves in forests, dwarves in hills, malakim in desert, ect.

I modified this map to work with Dreiche2's mapmod. To get the mapmod go here and to get the modified creation map script click here. The mapmod will make the civs start in the most flavorful starting spot. All I did was copy a line into the python file. Hope it helps.:)

Yeah, with such a high percentage of land on the map I knew that I'd have to make the maps smaller, but I might have to make them smaller still. Glad you liked the exploration phase. I still haven't tried it! Will right now.

Also, I forgot to re-enable the starting plot normalization for this map, so I'm sure some of the starts are going to be horrible. I'll be overhauling that at some point anyway.

Actually, I plopped in the start flavor script (as did Farmer Bobathan it seems), and the start positions have actually been decent-ish so far. I've been planning on adding more parameters into the base flavor start to accomidate more civs, but haven't gotten around to that yet.

This mod tends to be more entertaining with a fair amount of "barbarian waste-land" - so maybe the sizes aren't a bad thing. Makes for a very challenging start to explore - and with raging barbarians, holy cow, they really start streaming into your lands once that kicks in! Nice experience points for beating them back :D

BTW, on a Standard sized map, I can add 19 civs with still plenty of breathing room. *shrug* maybe no real need to scale it down, just use smaller map sizes for fewer civs. I tend to like lots of opponents, and with a standard sized map its nice to have so many with a minimal amount of lag (on PerfectWorld I can usually place 12 - 15 civs on a Standard sized map - sometimes some civs will get a bit packed in, but for the most part all can expand a bit before slugging it out).

Excellent job - loving this script!

Where do we put the files?

Where do we put the files?
You put the files in your C:\program files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\PublicMaps folder or Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\PublicMaps folder.

I tried that but all i get is a map that is all grassland or tundra

I tried that but all i get is a map that is all grassland or tundra

Run the Creation.py script, not the other.

I tried that but all i get is a map that is all grassland or tundra

Sounds like a map crash. One thing that can cause that is an old map script called 'random.py'. This name causes a conflict with the Python random module that is part of the Python system. Rename that file if you have it. I use python random number unless the game is multiplayer.

I just had the most depressing game as Bannor. I was ready to build my armies and unleash a crusade against evil as the world's only hope for salvation. First I came in contact with Cardith Lorda, and was relieved that we wouldn't stand alone against all the demons of hell. We shook hands and made an open borders agreement. Then I met Varn Gosam, he had a strange religion but he was basically a nice guy. I asked if he's seen any demons or undead recently, and he said he saw some undead in a lair but he took care of them. Then I ran into the Amurites. Neutral! I told them they must choose between good and evil or suffer the wrath of justice! Dain imediately switched his religion to Order and I said "Oh..... Well then, have a nice day." My industrial heartland was pounding out weapons of iron, and our training yards graduating mighty paladins ready to charge into the very teeth of Hyborem himself. Our rangers moved further into the bush as we braced to meet our enemy at last, but instead we found a very charming lady named Ethne the White who seemed glad to see us. She had seen no demons or orcs but she pointed out a small kingdom of dwarves on a map she gave us. We asked if these dwarves might be harboring demons, but she said "Not that I know of."

What shall we build next fearless leader? Um... Theatre sounds nice... We've been neglecting those perhaps.

The thing about FFH is there are good civs and evil civs. I wonder if I can choose the random civs in the map script? Maybe have a custom option of 30%/50%/70% evil civs or something. I'm not sure that's possible unfortunately.

You know, some of these so-called "good" civs said really bad things about your mother. And your god. If you don't start a purge (which does include taking over their cities for security reasons) soon you have demons and heretics in your empire. You couldn't possibly take that risk...!

I've been on a FFH2 hiatus for a bit, but as soon as I get back I am using nothing but this map script.

I've loaded this script up the past couple of "Does this really work that way?" checks (haven't actually played in months! But had to test some wierd pre-reqs when I was writing up Unit abilities/requirements). Some incredibly interesting results have come from it.

I wish I had taken a screenshot of the last one, but I loaded up on the side of the map (I tend to always get a corner, I have NEVER been off of at least 1 side though). Anyway, I was in the middle of the Eastern side, there was a single water line seperating me from a desert island in the North-East corner of the map, and my land stretched down to the South-East corner, then over to about the middle of the southern border, another single line of water, then an island that sprawled the western side of the map. All the sides of the map were land except a small section in the middle on the North, and the entire center was water.


I think I would have saved it if I had randomly wound up as Lanun instead of Hippus.

I modified this map to work with Dreiche2's mapmod. To get the mapmod go here and to get the modified creation map script click here. The mapmod will make the civs start in the most flavorful starting spot. All I did was copy a line into the python file. Hope it helps.:)
I downloaded the mapmod and extracted into PublicMaps. I downloaded the Dreiche mapmod Creation.py and put it into PublicMaps.

Whenever I start FFH with Dreiche mapmod Creation in my PublicMaps folder, it generates tons python exception error popups, all of them syntax errors in the string in line 1. Just accessing the Custom Game menu freezes Civ.

I downloaded the mapmod and extracted into PublicMaps. I downloaded the Dreiche mapmod Creation.py and put it into PublicMaps.

Whenever I start FFH with Dreiche mapmod Creation in my PublicMaps folder, it generates tons python exception error popups, all of them syntax errors in the string in line 1. Just accessing the Custom Game menu freezes Civ.

That's strange, it worked for me right from the download. Did you accidently edit when you looked at the code? Until I start messing with the default start locations, I definately recommend using the mapmod.

Cephalo,

Like your map script. Give a real fantasy game play feel.

I really like your idea below, if that is possible, it could be very cool.

The thing about FFH is there are good civs and evil civs. I wonder if I can choose the random civs in the map script? Maybe have a custom option of 30%/50%/70% evil civs or something. I'm not sure that's possible unfortunately.

I like the good/N/Evil ratio options.
Also, if you could group them together, ie. Good on the right of the map, neutral in the middle and evil on the left. (Good and Evil on opposite sides of the map.

I think that, along with Dreiche2's mapmod should make it real interesting.
(p.s. does Dreiche2's mapmod accomplish it's goal?)

Great Work!

That's strange, it worked for me right from the download. Did you accidently edit when you looked at the code? Until I start messing with the default start locations, I definately recommend using the mapmod.
I did not look at the code until after it froze my game. I will post screenshots of the error message (it is just the same error message 5-10 times) tonight when I get home from work.

The unmodified Creation.py works fine and the Dreiche-modified Smartmap.py also worked fine. It was just the Dreiche mod Creation.py that gives me errors.

I did not look at the code until after it froze my game. I will post screenshots of the error message (it is just the same error message 5-10 times) tonight when I get home from work.

The unmodified Creation.py works fine and the Dreiche-modified Smartmap.py also worked fine. It was just the Dreiche mod Creation.py that gives me errors.

Now that I think about it, you might replace the spaces in the name with underscores. I may have done that instinctively without realizing once I downloaded.

Ok, I just posted an update.

This new version takes care of a lot of nuts and bolts kinda stuff. I improved water generation. Filled in unreachable areas with peaks so you don't have to sit there and glance longingly at the mithril you finally found but can never use. Made it so the sea is not split in two by a small land bridge. I didn't like the way that looked, and it could potentially gimp the AI. All land squares on the map edge are now peaks, because fictionally I wanted to avoid the question, "Well, what's right over there? It's too close the be the end of the world." Now that it's peaks, your citizens can more easily remain blissfully ignorant of geography. Also I re-enabled the bonus normalization to make starts more fair.

Also, for the time being, I copied and pasted David Reichert's flavour mod in there to help out with starting positions until I finish those. So you don't have to worry about that.

Edit: Most of the changes I made reduced the playing field somewhat, but I also shrank the maps more directly. There really was just a bit too much space. The economies really couldn't expand into that much land and there was no reason to go to war until the end game pretty much.

The spaces in the name were the culprits. Once I replaced them with underscores everything worked perfectly.

I tried the script posted in the first post, but all I got was Great Plains-like maps : all plains, many rivers, no sea, no mountain, barely any hill, little clumps of forests here and there...

The spaces in the name were the culprits. Once I replaced them with underscores everything worked perfectly.
The new version now comes with the mapmod until I can get some better starts. So you don't have to worry about it anymore.

I tried the script posted in the first post, but all I got was Great Plains-like maps : all plains, many rivers, no sea, no mountain, barely any hill, little clumps of forests here and there...
That's a map crash, and they still do happen from time to time. If it's a repeated problem, make sure you don't have an old map script called 'random.py' in your public maps folder. Rename it if you find it, it conflicts with the random.py in the python system.

I'm hoping to have an update soon. My new starting plot code is very accurate as far as matching climate with the appropriate civ and looks very nice. The only trouble is when differenct civs have the same preferences. For example, Doviello and Illians like the same icy terrain. They have a strong tendancy to want to start in the very next valley as the other. Often this means that one or the other may be trapped into his valley by his neighbor, making an early rush war absolutely necessary for expansion. I can make it so that closest neighbor distance is a stronger factor in placement, but I can't do that without weakening that civs terrain preference. The same is true for the dwarves.

Is it a really bad thing to have close neighbors like that? Or is the fiction more important?

I really like the "valley-iness" this script creates and the resulting gameplay changes it produces (like forts on crucial passes becoming really nice now)
But is it just me or is it possible that the last changes kinda overdid the Peak stuff ?
Each map created with 1.01 so far did not only produce peaks at the "corner of the world" (which is a great idea, btw !), but also created peaks right at the coasts to oceans making it kinda impossible to get any decent sea cities.
(see Attachment #1)


I also really like the huge, semingly endless rivers flowing through half a continent, but sometimes it's quite hard/almost impossible to find spots NOT being a river tile.
While this is nothing negative per se, it still feels sometimes like every part of the map was part of a rainforest because you have rivers everwhere.
(eg. attachment #2)
Perhaps there is a way (?) to drop the frequency of rivers just in non-rainforested areas ?


I improved water generation.Made it so the sea is not split in two by a small land bridge
2 thumbs up ! :)


Is it a really bad thing to have close neighbors like that? Or is the fiction more important?
Personally I don't care about such close neighbours "sharing" the same preferred land type - on contrary, or me that's what FFH's first chapter of the game, "survive", is about.

On top of that it's just a drawback to get a starting location close to another civ if other civs have plenty of space to expand ... perhaps you can just change the number of civ's assigned to each size of the map to correspond with the changes you made ?

I eagerly await the next update since I don't have time to play right now. Your changes look spot on.

Each map created with 1.01 so far did not only produce peaks at the "corner of the world" (which is a great idea, btw !), but also created peaks right at the coasts to oceans making it kinda impossible to get any decent sea cities.
(see Attachment #1)


The current rule is that if the valley's drainage doesn't flow into water, then it's deemed a higher altitude than sea level. I believe that I can soften that effect however. I'll look into it for the next version.

I eagerly await the next update since I don't have time to play right now. Your changes look spot on.

Hopefully I'll have it published over the weekend. It's gonna be good one too. Starting plots will be tunable and according to fiction almost without fail. The unique improvements use a similar system as civs to control placement. This was rather difficult because many of the XML related functions in the DLL are not exposed to Python. What I was able to do was find the improvements that are placed, and then move them and their units(Barbatos) to where I wanted them. Ancient tower placement will always be in a place that makes some sense now, though I won't say too much about it since there should always some mystery associated with ancient towers...

All I need to do is generate alot of maps to see if anything unacceptable happens. There's still some bugs and likely some things are not working as well as I think they are.

Im also really enjoying this scrypt, I've found that even on a medium map there is plenty of room for 12 civs and staring barbarian cities. I usually dont manage to find everyone until turn 300+.