Shaka, A Gentleman of Culture: Start

Welcome to my 10th RPC game. These games are meant for entertainment, playing the game with a certain stategy/economy in mind while limiting our game with certain rules and guidelines.

After playing a peaceful game with Persians in Space, and after demands from the audience, I bring you the real Gentleman of the game, Shake leader of the Zulu civilization!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/GentlemanShaka0000.jpg

Now Shaka is generally our most feared foe in the game. The poor guy is so misunderstood. Sure he pillages and wrecks civilizations with his monsterous army from the beginnings throughout the modern era, but have any of you really tried to get to know him. He is really a gentle soul, desiring simple peace and harmony throughout the world, and if anyone disagreed he'll have your guts for breakfast!!!

SO let us see what this man is all about

The rules
1) Shaka can only win via culture, all other victoires are left on for the AI (including time).
2) Shaka's first legondary city is his capital. The other 2 must be captured AI capitals:D
3) Shaka has no problems with religion, but catherdrals are prohibited (unless somehow present after capturing an AI capital). In contrast to HOLY SAL where artists were prohibited and cathedrals emphasized, we are going in the other direction here. The bulk of culture will come from artists, great artists, corps, culture slider, wonders.

Guidelines
1) Aside from the rules, all is in play!!!! Warring is obviously a requirement, and early for the AI capitals. We just have to make sure we do not get an accidental Domination

Settings
Marathon speed
Monarch difficulty
Pangea Map
Low sea level with natural shorelines (more land, more wars)

And here is our start.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaStart0000.jpg

Ugh, I hate those forest starts.
Settle in place and hope theres something nice in the BFC.

Agreed, forest-heavy starts aren't my favourites either. I'm pretty sure there's a food resource 2E of the settler though. BW-beeline asap and chop, chop, chop.

Anyone cares to explain what's wrong with so much forests? To me it looks like a lot of early hammers/workers. :lol:

Anyways I'll be lurking~

Looks like it might be a ok production site as there seems to be a few hills lurking in the fog. Or I could be wrong! Not only trees for choping workers but also good for some early wonder chops to. Hope there's some nice resourses in the second ring of the BFC. I'd move my warrior NW to see what north of the river.

Interesting, I thought you'd be going for a pacifistic game this time. The capitals requirement sure makes finding good victims close important.

I agree with moving the Scout 1N. If he discovers corn, wheat or cows, I'd move the Settler 1N for that, otherwise just settle in place and hope it's not just rice in the east.

You have a forrested plains hill which will let you build a worker with 4+1 hammers which is the most important for any start with an expansive civ.

the problem with the forest-heavy starts is that they are low food, which kinda sucks early (chopping is a must). later, however, they make GREAT production cities (war mongering early and wonder-spamming mid-to-late).

i remember when i got a diplo victory with shaka. it was kinda funny! i look forward to this one.

Anyone cares to explain what's wrong with so much forests? To me it looks like a lot of early hammers/workers. :lol:


Well, forest-heavy start maybe isn't the worst possibility, but forest mean no resources+you need to chop before improving the land. Yep, forests=hammers, but for me the most important thing in the early game capital is food. Yeah, you can chop forests for settlers/workers but I still prefer a food heavy start.

You have a forrested plains hill which will let you build a worker with 4+1 hammers which is the most important for any start with an expansive civ.

A good call, didn't remember shaka being expansive.

Hmmm... maybe Bronzeworking would be a good choice for early research? ;)

The map generator gives at least 1 food resource in the BFC, if you settle in place. There is no reason to move the settler, so do it!

Cool. The start sucks, however.
I can already see a few techs to go for:
1) Drama- Culture Slider
2) Music- Free Great Artist is a little boost.
3) Aesthetics- Unlocks 3 or 4 Wonders, and is a prereq for the above
4) The Mysticism Tree- Polytheism, Mysticism, Meditation, Priesthood; all provide some juicy early wonders.

I hope we get someone like Louis XIV around. If they wonder-spam in the capital, we can take it. Not for the culture, but for the benefits.

Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: PArt I

Welcome to Shaka's Culturalk challenge. The grand and mighty leader of the glorious Zulus send the dignified scout onward towards the easterly direction discovering some wonderful wheat for the msot ecquisite breads arround.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaA0000.jpg

Of our distinguished leader settles in place.

My oh my, some deer. Grand, just grand. Just wonderful tasting venison with the challenge of the huint in the woods.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaA0001.jpg

Very soon Shaka meets another civilization

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaA0002.jpg

Oh, just fine. Look at the wonderful clothes you are wearing. I simply must have them, what city did you say you are from, Lisbon? Of course, such fine clothes that Shaka, er I mean Joao is wearing.

Our lands are just right for our leader, so we build a worker for a rich harvest, while teching the wonders of Mining and Bronze working, such a pretty a delightful metal to look at, don't you think.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaA0004.jpg

Yes, we must have some!!!!

Oh, what a fantastic looking woman!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaA0005.jpg

But you are awefully close to that shiney metal

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaA0006.jpg

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING LASY, THAT" S MINE. Ahem, sorry where were we.

Another leader, leader of a group that calls themselves Hindus. What a quaint group of people.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaA0007.jpg

About that shiney metal, yes we must have it.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaA0008.jpg

Ah, another visitor

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaA0009.jpg

And yet another, my Shaka is the popular one!!! This one we say is on a bit of the ugly side.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaA0010.jpg

The Zulu finish teching Animal Husbandry and Shaka Yawns and goes for some well deserved beauty rest. But not before the zulus inform him

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaA0011.jpg

Ahhh!!!!!!!!!!!! Pleasent dreams.

So there we have it. Our Gentleman leader has met 5 leaders laready and found some good militart sources.

Techpath was: Mining/BW/Archery/wheel/mysticism/AH

Beginning tech path: worker/warrior/Ikhanda/warrior/warrior/settler, followed by archers and lastly another settler, which we settled to the NW in order to cut Joao off. We started Stonhenge (Betcha Hyuna beats us to it), but I think we build a road towards the hortses and get prepared. The Russian lady ain't going to stand for that cultural pressure.

SO I am thinking that Lisbon and Moscow will make nice legondary cities.


The biggest question is what to tech next and do we build a city to claim that eastern copper now or tech IW and hope we got that nearby.

Did you forget some pics by any chance??

A city to pick up marble, horse and furs looks in order. Pity theres no food around there, it'll never grow much, but think of what you could build with the marble unless you plan to let others build for you.

Agree with Amazonqueen. Shitty city but with marble for wonders (bring on the parthenon, great library, notre dame, etc...), horses for warmongering and furs for 1 happy and as excellent trading material the city will repay itself pretty quickly. And of course it can grow a bit with a lighthouse (the lake will become 3F right?). But this game is going to be fun. Capturing two capital and then slam the wonders in there. I pity Catherine as I foresee some impi's coming her way :p

Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: PArt II

Shaka continues his quest to demonstrate to the uncooth leaders of the world how well mannered and adpat he is.

His city gets a visit from the Buddhist gods

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0000.jpg

But of course, especially with that city bordering The Russian Dame's copper mine.

We send out warrior scout out to scope a little more land.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0001.jpg

2 barb cities and a nice location for ALOT of dye. Shaka can be wearing some fine clothes with all that dye, can anyone say Pascals!!!

We chop out Stonehenge, that freeculture will help alot and in 1000 years we will have 16 culture coming from that wonder alone in the capital.

After some time, the copper mine culture pops to us, as it should belong

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0003.jpg

Soon we get a trade offer

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0004.jpg

I should say we teched pottery/fishing/writing (with Cathy's help)/IW/sailing.

It also means cathy has alphabet already.

We are builing chariots, axes, impi for an attempted attack on Cathy, but

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0006.jpg

COmbined with

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0007.jpg

Now that is just plain rude. Shaka decides he must have the source of that Portugese leaders clothes, so there is only one way to go....

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0008.jpg

Yes onward to what Shaka does best!!!!!


We also meet another well known WarLoard

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0009.jpg


After raising a few minor cities for cash

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0010.jpg

Our first of the two AI capitals.


We take Joao's new capital pretty easily, leaving him with that lone rudely placed city, which happens to be on a hill.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0011.jpg


And after we tech IW we find

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0013.jpg

Guess hitting Joao first was the right move here.


Finally we take the last Portugese city, Joaoa is no more and those fine Portugese threads are ours!!!

At this point we saved. A good sized empire with much better living spae than before, thanks to Joao's generousity.

Alot of land we have to settle here.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0015.jpg



Our tech situation is pretty grim right now

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0016.jpg

And Shaka Aint too popular

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaB0017.jpg

Jealous, just plain jealous.

Amd our Western from. Note how well we cut Catherine off from alot of land. We can cement our borders by taking that barb city with the Jumbos (never a bad thing to have).

Now, a few decisions to make as we are in an interesting and fairly dangerous situation

1) Cathy is our only friend, however we all know she cannot be trusted.. AND.... we get the message "We have enough on our hands right now". She is pleased with me now, and cautious with Degaulle her westernly neighbor. Let's hope she does the right thing.

2) Our third legendary city. Well any suggestions?? I am betting Moscow is going to be real tough to take, Paris seams like the best choice here. Open for any suggestions.

3) OK, our economy and land are trashed. Gotta rebuild it there. Any suggestions on tech order?? Also I am due to pop a GP, either a prophet or Scientists, what do we want to do with that person???

To help out the economy, I'd probably cottage span Nobamga and Lisbon. And I would settle a city to hook up that marble asap, even though it would hurt the economy short term. Getting the wonders built is key here. Perhaps start building a wnder you are pretty sure you aren't going to get just for the gold. And if you do get it...Yay! As for the third capital, I'd probably lay low until the economy gets rolling again. Focus on culture in the two capitals now, but down the road as you see who is easier to hit, take that capital then focus the culture on it. If you want to speed things up, Cathy is the closest, so it would make sense to take Moscow. It would be a nice compact empire, easier to defend down the road.

Ouch. If you're thinking about invading Cathy next you might want to consider a pillage war. With those impi's, you should be able to take out a lot of vital resources and cripple her economy. Negative side effect would be that she'll produce even more (defensive?) units :/ so maybe that ain't a good idea haha :D

If your science rating is hitting rockbottom I'd go for chopping a few libraries and hope that your resulting scientists can fill the gap or get you where you have to be. Cath's cities will have big cultural defense bonuses so catapults might be a necessity..

why'd ya keep lagos?

You need workers, badly. Land is underdeveloped. Also, fewer chariots, more impis.

I would have rushed catherine earlier to secure the copper.

At the very least, I think you have to consider CoL an important tech priority. Ideally, currency as well. Nice war, but now you have to at least think minimally about your economy while building up to go to war again.

I'm more of a fan of attacking whoever is closest and befriending those who are farther away. So I would vote for whoever is closest to be the next victim (Cathy?) unless you have someone else reasonably close as well who seems like a softer target.

Thanks for the input all. Lagos was kept for continuity of the empire and I would likely settle it later anyway. Another city is real tight, but we will see. Cathery is gearing up for war with somone so that may determine our next victum more than uis. I agree currency and CoL are big.

Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: Part III

WHOOOOOOAAA MAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well this game had taken a really interesting turn. Not sure how this is going to come out, but it is looking a little more difficult than I envisioned, the price for being sandwiched between two Imperialistic AIs. CAtherine has turned into a complete monster, and Shaka is despised by all, except teh charming lady with the firey red hair!!!

SO first of all, the tech path we chose. A little different and whether this paid off is uncertain, I am sure it was a mistake

Meditation/Priesthood/Masonry/Ploytheism/Monotheism at which point we bulbed theology to found Christianity. Then we went CoL and Math. The idea was to get theology and trade it arround. We got one weaker tech and some gold, so not sure this was a good return.

But onto the game.

First of all we brought our troops to cities to heal, built another worker, and stated a settler fo one more city to clain the 3 furs.

One of our goals was foiled

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaC0000.jpg

Cathy took out the elephant city first, Damm.

As I said we used our saved GP to bulb theology

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaC0001.jpg

We also declared war a few times on Degaulle at Cathy's request. We even managed to raze Lyons for some cash. By the end of theis segment though, Cathy has elimiated DeGaulle.

This is all we got for theology. At least we can adopt theocracy and HR to appeal to Sal, Cathy and HC.

Unfirtunately I got dogpiled after attacking Degaulle


http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaC0003.jpg

followed by

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaC0004.jpg

We did some good with COL, once we finally teched it

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaC0005.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaC0006.jpg

HC actually gave he a few gold for peace. Degaulle, well he's history.

SO at the save point

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaC0007.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaC0008.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaC0009.jpg

So I am at a bit of a loss on how to proceed here. We have several options

1) Stay the course and make a run at Cathy hitting St. Petersburg and Moscow to throw here off. I really do not feel I have the power to do that. Shaka is the war-monger king, but can only go so far.
2) Stay nice with Cathy and take someone elses capital. Difficult to maintain and will take a significant amount of time.
3) Amend the rules and take a non-AI city and the third legendary city and go for culture that way.
4) Restart from the last save, restructuring the religion tech aspect.
5) Regenerate the map and try from the beginning. It's a great RPC and I plan to play it out.

Looking for any suggestions on this one. I would not be so pessimistic (you all remember how I played out the Willem game) but being boxed in by a friendly monster AI and needing another capital is tough news.

Either way, if I fail this attempt while playing it out I am willing to give it another worl!

Attacking Cathy is suicide. Period. Your economy is in the gutter, you're lagging in techs (which eventually will end up losing out on the key wonders for culture later) and I don't see any realistic options for a third AI capital. I also don't want to amend the rules as that would be cheating. I think attempting to play this out either from last save or from this save will be a waste of time. I vote regenerate map, and hope you get something with slightly better land. Sorry to be so pessimistic, it's just how I see things for this :(

Right now Cathy has maybe 15 cities. She does not have any financial benefits from her traits, and she still does not have courthouses (I think was a bad move to trade CoL to her). Probably she has huge maintenance costs. She is Number 1 in power, but she needs many units to defend her cities. If you postpone the invasion, she will have time to recover and will be impossible. So for me the only option is now or never!
I dont think taking someone else capital is an option. Sal has less cities, but surely more units to defend them and his protective trait is a pain. Huayana. Well he will have longbows and probably macemen soon. I bet he has Construction too. Mighty Khan. He is far away and now you cant war with him. Another point is that you have the Wondespammer Master, who has huge tech advantage and no doubts, will build all wonders. I really dont know how you can do it without cathedrals and wonders. There is a long way until Broadway, Eiffel Tower and Rock'n Roll for your first multipliers.

I dont like the idea for amend the rules. 3 capitals as legendary cities is what makes this challange beauty. I also dont like the idea for restart. Its kind a cheating.

I think you can do a lsat try and restart the challenge, if it fails. For me Hemispheres with 2 continents is better map, than Pangaea. Naval deffence is much more easy than land deffence. The challenge is allready very hard and we dont need to make it even more difficult.


BTW my attempt:

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/semirami/Civ4ScreenShot0005.jpg

I promise I will never play your shadow game again! This time an archer came from East( Yeah IPEX you are right!), but there wasnt a message about Arians. I checked Monarch/Marathon the first Barbarian human units will appear at turn 75 and of course they will be warriors. Also there is a period, they will not enter cultural borders. Look the screenshot! It is turn 45. How could I defend against archer? I need 30 turns to build the worker and my first warrior wasnt ready at this time. What should I do? Build a warrior first? Well but he still can lose agaisnt archer(and most likely will). Fortify the scout? Annoyed!!!

I say wait. You've got time. It's only monarch right, not deity?? You've got 2/3 legendary cities. With corps late game you can catch your 3rd city up (also with GA bombing).

Recover your economy and then come up with a plan. I think going cultural with the rest of the world hating you is a bad idea (what went wrong with diplo this game??).

I think you need to keep Cathy as a long-term friend (who else would like you at this point?). You need to keep her on Genghis. HC or Saladin you should be able to handle with better diplo (!). I think you should try and arrange to annihilate HC and/or Saladin. Better, frankly, would be to annihilate Genghis if possible and manage HC and Saladin with diplo, while also keeping Cathy on them as much as possible.

The way I see it, you can't win cultural with the whole world hating you. So, diplo-wise, I think keep Cathy as a friend, annihilate the biggest threat (Genghis), try and repair relations with the remainder and/or keep Cathy at war with them. Then use corps and GA bombs to catch up your third city. You could also potentially put the 50% culture wonders in your third city as they come later.

In the short term I would say focus on stabilizing your economy and then strike at Genghis (or someone else) once you are able to surpass them in tech (again, it should not be that hard because this is not immortal/deity).

What ever you do you shouldn't give up and restart from a new map or the last save. One of the resons I enjoy these threads so much is that you play with more skill and patience than I do.

I don't see why you need to secure your third city so soon. Rebuild the economy and foriegn relations, wait it out untill you can afford more war and hold your gains, then check out the victory screen to see who has the best capital to nick - if its Cathy you probably shouldn't though, that really would be an arse to play out.

I think basically I'm agreeing with futurehermit and his idea of diplomacy and rebuild.

Stick at it!

You're expansive so chop a bunch of workers to get all that land in optima form as fast you can yeah. Getting that economy out of the gutter shouldn't be that hard with a lot of workers and courthouses and some priest/merchant specialists :)

Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: PArt IV

OK, seams like 2 different approached to take (three with the reload option). One of the rare times I do this, but the RPCs are fun and I was curious myself so I tried both approaches. First I launched an all out assault on Catherine (Shaka's inner child cried out for this), the second time I rebuilt the economy and made friends (my typical game). Yes, even a patient played like myself get's caught up in these things.

First thing, where did the diplomacy go??? Good question, but there is always a red-headed woman involved!!! Cathy had me going after Degaulle which got ghengis and HC ticked. Sal was decent considering we were different religions. It's a tough crowd to please, especially with 2 dead.

In my opinion both leave us in difficult and probably unwinnable situations. I will continue through either save until the bitter end, so there are some options here. What I won't do is play both out.

Option A: We actually took it to CAthy fairly well, the agressive trait is not something to discard even at a disadvantage in number of troops. We caught her by surprise, razed several surrounding cities, captured St. Petersburg and Moscow only to lose them, recapture then, lose them yada yada yada. We basically spiraled into a war of bearskins and knives although I did manage to actually get a troop of Jumbos. Either wayour civilization is going nowehere on this. check out save Shaka Temp, no scrrenshots. This was the first attempt.

Option B: THe best way, don't bite off more than you can chew. We made nice with Cathy, rebuilt relations with the other AIs except for I which I will go over. Save is Shaka Temp B.

PLay of option B:

Lot's of diplomcat trades and we see the vassalage of Sal to Cathy!

First some trades after HC warms up a bit with HR.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaE0000.jpg

Heathen Sal got dogpiled pretty bad, so I joined in

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaE0001.jpg

Our tech path was Matth/Currency/Drama/Music (sorry no GA)/Lit/Paper/Education

We find Mecca and briefly think of capturing it and dropping the GA from music there. Was not to be.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaE0002.jpg

Then a series of trades

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaE0003.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaE0004.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaE0005.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaE0006.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaE0007.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaE0008.jpg

Now, there was a point where I could have gotten Ghengis to war on Cathy. MY experience is that we probably get a random event declaring peace between the 2 early on and Cathy comes after me. Tough decision, but I elected to get fuedalism in a trade rather than war as I prefer to defend myself (we are SHaka dammit!).

The kicked is Cathy build the Swan palace and adopts FR, dropping to pleased. We converted to Judaism after a random event spread it to 4 of my cities. SO me Ghengis and HC form a friendly Judaist block.

The other interesting point is this

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaE0009.jpg

Somehow we have managed to monolpolize education!!! We can get tech parity by trading it arround, we can make a run at liberalism (not sure we get it), or we can trade it to Khan to declare war on Cathy and backstab her to take Moscow. I am thinking the fire haired red head has some more warring in mind, just matters if she goes after me or Ghengis.

Oh, victory conditions

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaE0010.jpg

Yes, if we manage to pull this off it's going to require taking out HC later on.

SO we have some options

A) finish the pointless war against Cathy (save Shaka Temp)
B) Continue the diplomacy route (Shaka Temp B) but what to do with education?
C) Reload.

I am giving this at least 1 day to think over.

B seems very winnable to me. Go for liberalism and taj. Gun for a tech lead. Then take out Genghis when he falls behind, which he probably will, or else Cathy if you don't think you can keep her from backstabbing you if you drop in power later in the game. With corps and great artists and the 50% culture wonders later in the game you should be able to get a culture win. The diplomacy looks much, much better.

I love your threads MS, but I wonder sometimes if you dont make it too hard on yourself. I think you could make a helluva game just by saying "Cultural win with Shaka, 2 enemy CITIES (not capitols, meaning you only need to conquer one opponent) as Legendary" and not adding a bunch of other requirements/restrictions. Same with the other one you lost a couple times recently.

No reason to tie both hands behind your back, bro, I know you like it hard, but lets not push the envelope too much.

B seems very winnable to me. Go for liberalism and taj. Gun for a tech lead. Then take out Genghis when he falls behind, which he probably will, or else Cathy if you don't think you can keep her from backstabbing you if you drop in power later in the game. With corps and great artists and the 50% culture wonders later in the game you should be able to get a culture win. The diplomacy looks much, much better.

Thanks for the feedback. Option B is pretty much how I would do it 99% of the time, option A was more likely due to the pressure of getting the three legendary cities. I do not have much of a production city, so not sure the Taj is the way. Thinking more along printing press for the extra commerce up front and the path to rifles. I am thinking agressive promoted rifles may be the thing. Bhengis is on the other side of Catherine, and not even sure how far away his capital is , although it is not breaking the rules to capture Paris or Mecca from an AI and head that way.

I will definitely play the game out to the end. If it does end in a loss I will just reload, Shaka is just too much fun to play to pass up!

I love your threads MS, but I wonder sometimes if you dont make it too hard on yourself. I think you could make a helluva game just by saying "Cultural win with Shaka, 2 enemy CITIES (not capitols, meaning you only need to conquer one opponent) as Legendary" and not adding a bunch of other requirements/restrictions. Same with the other one you lost a couple times recently.

No reason to tie both hands behind your back, bro, I know you like it hard, but lets not push the envelope too much.

You may be right, but then again that's the fun of it. I really expected this to be more of a military game, finishing off a conquered continent by twiddling my thumbs for the culture game. Unfortunately fate gave me two of the more dangerous expanders as neighbors and Cathy got too stronge with DeGaulle and Sal.

Someone suggested it earlier and I agree if I reload, Hemisheres would have been the map. Take out my own, cruise to culture.

Now as far as too difficult, my usual difficulty level is Monarch although I can "occasionally" win at emperor. SO these RPCs pretty much end up being Monarch and a half, making things pretty interesting.

The other RPC I think were fine except Washington where I put myself in essentially an unwinable position, but then again that's what happens when women are arround:D . Peter was testing out a different strategy which did not work out as planned. The others were difficult but fair within the rules.

Finally, all these RPCs are fun and rules can change during the game to fit the flow. If I see two Zulu cities and Lisbon heading towards culture, well that may be well enough if it is a good game and good show. But let's see what we can do with Cathy, Ghengis seams to be a good friend and my experience he is loyal as long as his empire doesn't border your,s. Much more trustworthy than the redhead.

Where is H C capital? With out opening the save I guess its probably a long way off or you would have mentioned it.
If you were to for Libralisum what route would you take if you think you can't get the Taj? I think I'd make a start on Lib untill I felt I stood a chance of getting it and then trade education, or if one of the AIs was about to get i'd trade it round.

If you did war with Cathy you sould look to pillage her senseless, while getting Ghengis to wade in. I still thinkl you should hold of this figh for a short time, at least till you have rifles and maybe some cannons on the horizon.

Oh yer this is a vote for option B.

Where is H C capital? With out opening the save I guess its probably a long way off or you would have mentioned it.
If you were to for Libralisum what route would you take if you think you can't get the Taj? I think I'd make a start on Lib untill I felt I stood a chance of getting it and then trade education, or if one of the AIs was about to get i'd trade it round.

If you did war with Cathy you sould look to pillage her senseless, while getting Ghengis to wade in. I still thinkl you should hold of this figh for a short time, at least till you have rifles and maybe some cannons on the horizon.

Oh yer this is a vote for option B.

yeah I like B too. If we lose I'll restart, Shaka's always a blast to play.

We can tech liberalism right away, which I am doing as I do not want HC or Cathy to slip in education via a GS and outtech me to it. Free Speech will go a long way. HC and Ghengis are on the other side of the tattered remnants of Arabia, and since Sal won't give up OB, there's not much I can do at the moment. One reason I held off bribing Ghengis to go after Cathy. Could be Arabian ends up being the battlefield with neither taking a hit.

I agree, keep the insane rules, they're part of what makes it interesting. Just take a flexible approach as to what is cast-iron (eg cultural victory in this game) and what can be twisted, bent or broken like in the Monty game.

Option B looks the only way to go, war against Cathy looked like all it made certain was that neither of you would win.

Lurker's request; can you please post less trade screens and more game map action screens? Thx.

Have you thought yet much about what free tech you'll get out of liberalism? What sort of tech path are you going to start taking from here? I found that on my cultural wins this is the point where you have to start making tough tech choices. I'm at work and can't look at the saved games, but from the screens it looks like you're doing pretty well to have that many closeby people on monarch going for a cultural. If it weren't for your rule about the capitals being the spots you could probably start turtling up and building all the key wonders and structures. Has the Sistine Chapel been built yet? That would be a good one to have for sure for a cultural victory.

Most wonders are dropping like flies, my guess is HC is wonderspamming. Any wonders were get we need a big tech lead or a GE. Also note that both capitals are week in production.

Free tech I will likely take Printing Press and beeline rifling. I figure Shaka can kill everyone, then sit back and culture. After liberalism it's onto gunpowder

My thinking on how to get the culture win

A) Zulu capital: cottages and slider
B) Lisbon: Ideal GP farm, so artists there. The biggest problem is the hammers to build the NE. Put the hermitage here.
C) Last city: Globe theater and National Park for lot's of free artists. Someone posted this once before and I have thought of trying.

Given this unual game I am looking for Great Artists, but still a GM, GE, GS for the culture corps. Tough considering I am trying to punch out GAs yet GS's are the way to catchup in tech.

On top of all this I need to continue building military to keep the redhead of my back.

All this may change once I sit down with the game again and formulate some sort of plan.

Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: PArt V

OK, so I took some advice. Laid low and teched liberalism.

Someting very benficial happened

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaF0000.jpg

Thanks Ghnegis, and you did it for free!

These were the troops starting to lineup, I think cathy has her sites on GK now

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaF0001.jpg

AT this point HC teched education by himself and we still had 25 turns left. We turned all specialists to scientists (we are in caste system by the way) and ran a hammer economy to push the research up. Worked pretty well because

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaF0005.jpg

But just before.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaF0004.jpg

We took nationalism with the free tech, and since HC offered me only a few hundred gold I gott assume he's teching it manually. Forget the Taj.

After nationalism we are doing pretyt good, not great bu better.

And here is our first GA! we saved him because we do not know what is going down for that third city.

Another trade with HC. This is OK as HC adopted free religion as expected, weakening his relations with GK a bit.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaF0008.jpg

ANd we finally got arround to scoping out HC/GK land.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaF0009.jpg

One last trade with Cathy which puts us at equal tech level as Cathy but with the edge of being agressive and running theocracy.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaF0010.jpg

The world to our west

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaF0011.jpg

And our lands

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaF0012.jpg

The tech situation

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaF0013.jpg

And Diplomacy

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaF0014.jpg

Our tech path was Liberalism/Machinery/Gunpowder.

OK, I need some suggestions at this point from the readers

1) We need to either secure a third culture city soon, or decide to use another city as the third and later the rules.
2) We have an edge over Cathy in military ability as we are heading towards gunpowder. Do we build up and mass for an attack on Cathy, wait for her to attack, or ignore her. The right time is approaching
3) Techs: Military tradition for Crussairs or PP/Banking/RP/rifling

Looking for all advice.

OK, I need some suggestions at this point from the readers

1) We need to either secure a third culture city soon, or decide to use another city as the third and later the rules.
2) We have an edge over Cathy in military ability as we are heading towards gunpowder. Do we build up and mass for an attack on Cathy, wait for her to attack, or ignore her. The right time is approaching
3) Techs: Military tradition for Crussairs or PP/Banking/RP/rifling

Looking for all advice.

2. It is time to "wash the spears". At some point, the "lady" will back-stab you: get your blow in first before she's ready. Also, it will give the Zulu nation some elbow room: your cities are linked by some vunerable necks of land between Imperialistic AIs.

Since I don't have BtS, I can't comment on the tech path. A question: can one "Curaissier rush" in BtS, like one could in Vanilla? If so, that might be an option.

Don't listen to my advice because I'm a noob, but personally I'm not sure you should go to war with Catherine. You still need to build up and she's definitely going to be a tough foe to take down.

How many big :culture: wonders have you managed so far? If you think your two current culture cities will get to legendary without much help from GAs then you can save most of your future GAs for that 3rd city. This being the case would mean you still have time IMO to grab another capital and pump GAs into it.
If, on the other hand, you haven't got much raw :culture: in your two cities then I would probably pick a city ASAP and try to get some culture happening.

Too bad we can't see the power rating but if you want to take on Cathy (who will propably backstab you when she reaches Cossacks) then do it now (maybe beeline for rifling if possible). If you can take out Krasnayorosk, St. Petersburg and Moscow you should have crippled her enough and then start to work the culture pump. You will propably want both cooperations to crank up the culture so you might want to save a GA for that. I guess you are building the Taj Mahal somewhere? If so then start cranking out troops in that period, cripple Cathy, sue for peace and make nice with her again. This is becoming one interesting RPG.

Some comments on the comments.

1) Not sure of the power rating but I can check. I was more worried about military tech parity which we have now.
2) Cathy will stabe me in the back but not until her blooslust against Ghengis is over.
3) When to hit Cathy: Gotta be a decisive stronge blow that not only cripples her, but break he ability to ever wage war again. IDeally I would like her vassaled and act as a wall against Ghengis. Yeah, right.
4) Wonders? Yeah well first we got Stonehenge, second we got um, er???? Yeah we got stonehenge!
5) Taj, HC teched nationalism very soon after I got it off liberalism. THe way he has been knockign off wonders, I cannot see getting it thus I did not waste the hammers.

After thinking it over I think it is time to spam Maces/Pikes/knights/trebs/muskets. But depends on the power graph and how frisky Khan and Cathy are with each other.

I think you should make a Defensive Pact with Genghis Khan and attack Catherine. Try to do so while their war is still happening, or not very long afterwards.

You worked so hard in getting tech parity with the rivals, and having Gunpowder, Theocracy, and Aggressive seals the advantage.

Now it's just a question of which unit to emphasize for your military.

Grenadiers are easily available with Chemistry and have good attacking abilities.

Riflemen are great all-purpose units, especially against Cossacks, but they require more tech.

Cannons are the best offensive units in your near grasp, but like Riflemen they require more tech.

Cavalry are your worst choice, since they will be countered by Cossacks, and they aren't as versatile as Riflemen.

I think you should make a Defensive Pact with Genghis Khan and attack Catherine. Try to do so while their war is still happening, or not very long afterwards.

You worked so hard in getting tech parity with the rivals, and having Gunpowder, Theocracy, and Aggressive seals the advantage.

Now it's just a question of which unit to emphasize for your military.

Grenadiers are easily available with Chemistry and have good attacking abilities.

Riflemen are great all-purpose units, especially against Cossacks, but they require more tech.

Cannons are the best offensive units in your near grasp, but like Riflemen they require more tech.

Cavalry are your worst choice, since they will be countered by Cossacks, and they aren't as versatile as Riflemen.

Good idea bout the DP, but some considerations remembering I am playing BTS

1) Grenaders require 2 techs, chemistry and military Science
2) Rifle requires 4 techs Printing Press/banking/RP/rifling
3) Cannons require 2 techs chemistry/steel and may require another I am missing.
4) Military tradition is needed for DP, and requires 1 tech to get us Crussairs (12 stength.)

So seams like we got three options, remembering we already have gunpowderadvantage over Cathy.

A) PP towards rifles, long but gets us a little more commerce.
B) chemistry leads us to cannons and grenaders
C) Military Tradition, get's us a DP and an immediate unit.

Regarding Diplomacy

GK is falling behind
HC has chemistry but won't trade it yet. It is possible I could get something for Military tradition if he does not tech there first.

Fun so far, it will be alot more fun if I can take out Cathy and concentrate on breaking HC's culture race!

I think you need a strong fast attaking unit. Mil trad then tech on to rifles to counter the Cossaks when they come.

The currasiurs can be used as effective pillagers - as can the knights I guess - and will tie down some of Cathys forces while you take out her cities. Also its a sooner option than waiting for her to trash Genghis - which I assume shes doing - and means you get to do some stabby stabby! If you can capture Krasnayorosk, St. Petersburg, Moscow and maby one other - Vladivostock - and pillage her senseless she'll never bew a real threat again.:backstab:

I'm so glad there's a backstab icon.

It seems like a decision between Chemistry and Military Tradition.

If you have Knights, I see little reason to make Cuirassiers (12 Str instead of 10) the main focus of your tech advance.

However, having Cannons gives you a radical improvement in siege weaponry compared to both Catapults and Trebuchets. And you can leverage your investment in Chemistry to get Grenadiers as well.

With Military Tradition, that's 1 new unit for 1 new tech, and you get Defensive Pact as a bonus.

With Chemistry, Steel, and Military Science, that's 2 new units for 3 new techs. But that's 2 very good units that can revolutionize your army.

It sure looks like you've got a nice clean shot at her core cities. I would say if you took out St. Petersberg, Moscow, and Novgrod she would be severly crippled and you would probably take the lead in score. Taking 3 cities wouldn't even cause a huge pile of War Weariness unless one of them had a huge stack of troops in it. You've got to believe she doesn't have them defended that well right now due to her fight with Ghengis. I say the sooner the better for the fight.

If you can mass build musketmen, then get Military Tradition for the Curassiers and have them coming in to help out, that would be nice. You never know how long Ghengis is gonna fight her, he could declare peace while you're still trying to research something like rifling, plus better early while she's further away from those Cossacks.

I agree, go for cathy. There hasn't been enough bloodshed in this game (I enjoy seeing someone else war a lot and do it properly to make up for my own deficiencies). Chenistry looks like the most beneficial tech to go for.

I think attacking ASAP is the best plan and cannons the best unit choice.
Waiting is a gamble that the war will continue between her and GK and going after a cavalry unit means you have to win before she gets the cossacks

without the variant rules, the game is nothing special. ATTACK!

I agree, go for cathy. There hasn't been enough bloodshed in this game (I enjoy seeing someone else war a lot and do it properly to make up for my own deficiencies). Chenistry looks like the most beneficial tech to go for.


I'm also leaning towards Chemistry. Here's my step my step sequence:

1) start making Musketeers and Knights
2) research Chemistry, and then Steel
3) mass produce Cannons
4) declare war on Catherine
5) research Military Science
6) mass produce Grenadiers
7) research Military Tradition
8) make a defensive pact with your best ally (perhaps Genghis Khan)

Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: PArt VI

OK folks, I jumped in feet first for better or worse. Diplomacy, bah that's not Shaka's style. We teched chemistry as suggested. Steel was 53 turns, the hell with that. we started military science, built our army and ATTACKED. Maybe a fool's gambit, but we willt ry it this way now and no reloads at the last save.

A few preliminaries

We popped another Great Artist, we now have 2 sitting arround twiddling their thumbs.

We teched chemistry, got a good amount of military sceince done. Cathy teched Military tradition but does NOT have gunpowder yet. She is teching constitution then corporation.

First we decide to help GK's war effort as he is falling behind Cathy and tried to stop it via the AP (which we foiled). Since Cathy voted no for peace I have to assume she's the one not wanting to end the war.

Finally we tech a key war item,

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaG0001.jpg

Although we still need Steel or military science to utilize it. We opt for Military Science. Note that HC has actually built the Kremlin, showing how far behind we ar ein tech.

We mobilize our two main stacks, one for St. Petersburg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaTempG0000.jpg

And the other to attack Novgorad which is really a faint.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaTempG0001.jpg

We also essentially gift gunpowder to the Mighty Kahn giving him a military tech edge on CAthy (Now use it you Mongrol dog!)

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaTempG0002.jpg

We capture St. Petersburg easily (we sent some spies to try and send the cities into revolt but they all failed).

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaTempG0003.jpg

The faint towards Novrograd veered off and went stright for Moscow, with the remaining army from the St. Petersburg assault surround the city.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaTempG0004.jpg

Forget about reducing the culture defense with bombardment, we simply suicided every cat and treb the attacked

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaTempG0005.jpg

We have out third Cultural city!!!!! But can we hold onto it!!!!

I save dat this point wanting to rethink how to proceed.

The powernumbers

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaTempG0006.jpg

We are under Cathy still but have the agressive trait, superior units in tech, and an ally on the other side.

Also our western most DYE city is in danger from a stack of Russian jumbos and trebs. We already sacrificed one impi to hurt one Jumbo.

Our borders

To the south

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaTempG0008.jpg

And the north

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaTempG0009.jpg

OK< we crippled Cathy, why to feel like Napolean fighting the Russian bear!!!!

So here are the choices

1) Peace: Cathy wants Moscow, I don't think so.
2) Take more Russian cities. Yeah as soon as I can defend St. Pete and Moscow
3) We have 2 Great Artists. DO we take the risk and culture bomb Moscow now with one or both?

Looking for some advice. You all wanted a war, and we got one. So my generals, how does our distinguished gentleman deal with this?

Oh one more, any idea what to do with HC who seams to be running away? I sort of need GK's help right now.

So here are the choices

1) Peace: Cathy wants Moscow, I don't think so.
2) Take more Russian cities. Yeah as soon as I can defend St. Pete and Moscow
3) We have 2 Great Artists. DO we take the risk and culture bomb Moscow now with one or both?

Looking for some advice. You all wanted a war, and we got one. So my generals, how does our distinguished gentleman deal with this?

Oh one more, any idea what to do with HC who seams to be running away? I sort of need GK's help right now.


You still have a lot of time to wage the war. After this war, it's likely you won't need to fight in any major wars, since you're going for a cultural victory.

I think you should wait for Grenadiers to become available, now that you've already captured some of Catherine's key cities. The next step should be to go into defensive mode and use your new units to repel Catherine's counterattacks.

After you get Grenadiers, begin the next wave of attacks. I hadn't realized Steel was so expensive to research. However, it might become cheaper by the time you get Military Science. Since you lost siege units in your assault, you might want to replace them with Cannons.

As for the two Great Artists that you have, it is hard to say whether they should be risked on your new cities. Obviously, the best candidate city is Moscow, but it's evident from the power graph that Catherine has some extra units roaming her territory, which could be used to attack Moscow.

As far as HC goes, I think that he will not be a factor in your war vs. Catherine. After that war is finished, you should be controlling about twice the amount of land as HC. That means you should be able to tech faster and develop your three supercities in peace.

After you get Grenadiers, begin the next wave of attacks. I hadn't realized Steel was so expensive to research. However, it might become cheaper by the time you get Military Science. Since you lost siege units in your assault, you might want to replace them with Cannons.


Steel really isn't very expensive, but looking at those screenshots, he has an absolutely abysmal science rate going. But it is a role play challenge, and he's role playing Shaka to the very last detail. On my last game, Shaka managed to get steel in the late 1800s.

Culture bomb Moscow! If you want the RPG to succeed you need the capital and you will need to culture bomb it anyway. Her forces will come at the capital for sure and you will want to defend this capital with some nice culture defense build up. Also the city will come out of revolt so you can whip a wall and a castle and lets hope Genghis will eat up enough of Cathy's units. Great round by the way. Go Shaka go. Keep at least 1 artist as reserve for the cooperation.

Interesting times ahead,

I'd for 1, let Bulawango, be taken by Catherine, and retake and raise it, building it 1 north of current position, and designate it my Wall Street city, for cash Generation.

The Statute Of Zeus, which Cathy has is located in Yelkinburg, built in 330 ad, just check the log, and it zooms in on that city, and there it is.

Take out Novograd, Raise or keep the Northern Russian cities, build up a ring of Captured cities around Moscow.

Pity you can't kill Sal, as he's only 6 from Gunpowder, will he give it up to Cathy?

Leave all troops in Moscow to heal/defend. Build up a force of Trebs/Cat's, take out Novograd, then Yelkingburg, by 2 prong attack from Moscow and own lands.

You REALLY need to take out Yelkingburg, if you feel you can't hold it, just raise it.

As for the others, Hyana, will just sail in and settle coast, keep them maybe and raise interior to save cash, re-settle later.

Plan;

1) Bulawango, bad spot IMHO, let it fall, retake and raise, build it 1 north, and make it you science/cash city.

2) Build up a stack of treb's/cats, attack Novograd, with 2nd column from Moscow.

3) Move on to Yelkingburg, capture, but proberly you'll have to raise it.

4) Clean up the northern/southern russian cities that are causing cultural problems.

Now you have 3 AI Ex-Capitals, Culture bomb them, etc Tech on wards.

Proberly best to get you best freind involved in a drawn out war with Hyana, feed him tech's and he can pillage the town's that are Hyana's Strength.

P.S. I believe that most of Cathies power comes from her Garrision Troops, she seems to have min 2 Longbows/city, plus 2 other troops, but she'll eventually start to siphon them to war, Moscow can hold.

Interesting times ahead,

I'd for 1, let Bulawango, be taken by Catherine, and retake and raise it, building it 1 north of current position, and designate it my Wall Street city, for cash Generation.

The Statute Of Zeus, which Cathy has is located in Yelkinburg, built in 330 ad, just check the log, and it zooms in on that city, and there it is.

Take out Novograd, Raise or keep the Northern Russian cities, build up a ring of Captured cities around Moscow.

Pity you can't kill Sal, as he's only 6 from Gunpowder, will he give it up to Cathy?

Leave all troops in Moscow to heal/defend. Build up a force of Trebs/Cat's, take out Novograd, then Yelkingburg, by 2 prong attack from Moscow and own lands.

You REALLY need to take out Yelkingburg, if you feel you can't hold it, just raise it.

As for the others, Hyana, will just sail in and settle coast, keep them maybe and raise interior to save cash, re-settle later.

Plan;

1) Bulawango, bad spot IMHO, let it fall, retake and raise, build it 1 north, and make it you science/cash city.

2) Build up a stack of treb's/cats, attack Novograd, with 2nd column from Moscow.

3) Move on to Yelkingburg, capture, but proberly you'll have to raise it.

4) Clean up the northern/southern russian cities that are causing cultural problems.

Now you have 3 AI Ex-Capitals, Culture bomb them, etc Tech on wards.

Proberly best to get you best freind involved in a drawn out war with Hyana, feed him tech's and he can pillage the town's that are Hyana's Strength.

P.S. I believe that most of Cathies power comes from her Garrision Troops, she seems to have min 2 Longbows/city, plus 2 other troops, but she'll eventually start to siphon them to war, Moscow can hold.


Some good advice. I do not think I can recatputre and raze my own city, but I would not anyway.

The Russian cities have to be addressed and expecially the SoZ city which definitely needs to be taken out one way or another.

WW is not much of an issue once I get chemistry as I will just ramp up the culture slider which helps many ways. The problem is teching towards steel while HC techs much further along.

Just wanted to say I am following this with much interest! Can't say taht I'm going to play this, as Monarch is a bit out of my league at this point, but can't wait to see the next isntallment!

Just wanted to say I am following this with much interest! Can't say taht I'm going to play this, as Monarch is a bit out of my league at this point, but can't wait to see the next isntallment!

Next Installment?/

Probably a replay of Shaka unless I cna actually win this. It is fun and if I lose it will be in a BLAZE of GLORY rather than the pitiful Peter games.

But really, the next installment?

I am thinking "Asoka and the Doomsday Weapon". Asoka on a Pangea map with assorted agressive/back-stabber morons. Asoka would be the only leader to start with Mysticism and he must found Buddhism. At that point I will use worldbuilder to give Asoka the gift of the gods (either 1 ICBM or 1 modern tank) in order to convert all the heathens to his religion. Game ends with an AP diplo victory, UN diplo (with all leaders adopting Buddhism), domination (if the remaining leaders are Buddhist) or conquest (if the heathen cannot see reason).

What do you all think of that!?

great going so far thats all 3 of the needed capitals
I think culture bomb 1 GA straight away for the reasons Killroyan said and to keep a war going IPEX is right and you have to destroy or capture the SOZ

think Asoka and the doomsday weapon sounds good, i'll be following but i'll read anything you choose to write down!

great going so far thats all 3 of the needed capitals
I think culture bomb 1 GA straight away for the reasons Killroyan said and to keep a war going IPEX is right and you have to destroy or capture the SOZ

think Asoka and the doomsday weapon sounds good, i'll be following but i'll read anything you choose to write down!

The Statue of Zeus definitely complicates matters. I wasn't able to see it myself because I don't have BTS installed and therefore could not load the save file...

But regardless, WW only happens for battles on enemy territory, not home territory. So it's very possible to fight defensively while researching Military Science, without increasing WW.

I am thinking "Asoka and the Doomsday Weapon". Asoka on a Pangea map with assorted agressive/back-stabber morons. Asoka would be the only leader to start with Mysticism and he must found Buddhism. At that point I will use worldbuilder to give Asoka the gift of the gods (either 1 ICBM or 1 modern tank) in order to convert all the heathens to his religion. Game ends with an AP diplo victory, UN diplo (with all leaders adopting Buddhism), domination (if the remaining leaders are Buddhist) or conquest (if the heathen cannot see reason).

Sounds interesting. A vote for the ICBM, since it is once only, and so you'll have to choose carefully when to use it.

That was the kind of quick conquest that was needed. I think the main objective would be to capture enough cities around Moscow that would keep the cultural pressure off of it. It would be a major pain if that city revolted and flipped due to culture of all things. I think, already you've taken enough out of Russia that they won't be the top dog anymore.

I'm not sure what to tell you about HC, his being financial really gives him a leg up on reasearching. It will probably wind up being a race between him building a spaceship and your getting that Legendary Culture in Moscow. Perhaps you could start devoting more of your espionage points to studying what HC is up to and disrupting some of his cities.

Once you have some peace in place with Catherine, maybe you can start focusing on pumping that culture up while still doing some decent research. Extra culture slider % will prob help those captured Russian cities out a bit too, as I bet they "yearn to join the motherland" pretty bad.

Any wonders you can build? The cultural value of those is usually worth the effort on this type of game, even if the wonder is bad.

That was the kind of quick conquest that was needed. I think the main objective would be to capture enough cities around Moscow that would keep the cultural pressure off of it. It would be a major pain if that city revolted and flipped due to culture of all things. I think, already you've taken enough out of Russia that they won't be the top dog anymore.

I'm not sure what to tell you about HC, his being financial really gives him a leg up on reasearching. It will probably wind up being a race between him building a spaceship and your getting that Legendary Culture in Moscow. Perhaps you could start devoting more of your espionage points to studying what HC is up to and disrupting some of his cities.

Once you have some peace in place with Catherine, maybe you can start focusing on pumping that culture up while still doing some decent research. Extra culture slider % will prob help those captured Russian cities out a bit too, as I bet they "yearn to join the motherland" pretty bad.

Any wonders you can build? The cultural value of those is usually worth the effort on this type of game, even if the wonder is bad.


Wonders are out as HC is hogging them all. Espionage is a good point I have thought of. If I can manage to tame cathy (alot of you think this is going to be easy, I beg to differ), I can direct the espionage towards HC and blow up those SS parts as he builds them. Between that and perhaps bribing GK into attacking we may get somewhere.

Wonders are out as HC is hogging them all. Espionage is a good point I have thought of. If I can manage to tame cathy (alot of you think this is going to be easy, I beg to differ), I can direct the espionage towards HC and blow up those SS parts as he builds them. Between that and perhaps bribing GK into attacking we may get somewhere.


Bribing with GK with tech sounds like a good option. GK is the leader who likes to concentrate on military, which means he will fall behind in tech even further. However, you can selectively use techs to bribe GK into attacking HC...at least in theory.

I would say you should go all out against Cathy. I think you should get nationhood asap and whip/draft like crazy. Once she's gone you can settle down into peace. Imo that should involve getting the culture corps asap and generating as many great artists as possible (good NE site and a good NP site if possible).

You have all inspired me. I march off to Shaka'a world, playing him the way he was meant to be played!!

Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: PArt VII

Well this segment has absolutely not 1 turn of peace in it! WE sent out troops off against Cathy's cities all teh time getting no reasonable offers for peace (fool woman actually want Moscow back for peace!).

First we send a healthy stack off to Rostov

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0000.jpg

And proceeded to burn it to the ground.

We got a nice visit from the AP

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0001.jpg

Which passed! One less city in Russian hands.

GK make nice with Cathy but 10 turns later

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0002.jpg

Two fronted Russian was against 2 agressive AIs.

We made a circle arround Moscow to relieve culture pressure (we dropped one culture bomb into it).

That unpronouncable city to the south

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0003.jpg

Razed it

Took me a while to realize but we have very poor trade routes, so a timely trade with our Mongol colleugue

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0004.jpg

And we adpoty nationalism and mercantilism.

We march on Novrofad, after a spy sent the city into revolt

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0005.jpg

Which allowed us to capture it

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0006.jpg

And of course raze it. Cathy is definitely NOT a happy camper. OH, we are not too happy as we are getting sabataged by spies and pillaged like crazy. But we focus on the task at hand.

We assault Yekaterinaberg, first with a spy, then bring the rest

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0007.jpg

We capture it

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0008.jpg

And of course raze it. That cursed Statue of Zues has been elimanted from teh game, the gods be praised.

At this point I saved with the following option

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0009.jpg

The lady starts to see reason. I have not accepted peace yet, I wanted some opinions on this.

Power we are still behinf Cathy.

Victory conditions

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0010.jpg

Techs (yeah yeah we are behind)

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0011.jpg

Diplomacy

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0012.jpg

Note GK can be bribed to attack HC at this point although he's a littleporeoccupied with the Russian redhead.

And the empire to the west.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaH0013.jpg

OK we razed alot, welll we sort of razed everything. No way our economy can support all those cities.

Our tech level is way behind and Cathy is on teh verge of gunpowder. She has military tradition and printing press which means she is 2 techs from rifles and cossacks.

Our economy is in horrible shape.

So, do we accept peace or grind it out. Gotta say our army is pretty beaten up and not sure we can hit another city now or have the production to build more units. The WW from the SoZ does not end until we declare peace.

So our choices are

Peace

War

I like to keep things nice and simple.

Looks like it may be a phony peace. Short to allow Cathy a breather before a return to war. Can you make sure if she returns to war you are better prepared for it than she is? If shes offering peace w/o demanding cities back she must be hurting. I think peace but prepare for war (but I'm not good at wars).

Cathy has War Weariness of 882, don't know what that means..

In Heridatary rule, of 1+ happy / Garrison troop, and vassalage/slavery.

I'd keep at her, raze or occupy the cities to your immediate North, cut off her supply of Happyness resources...and she'll be toast.

:goodjob: of raising those cities, especailly the SOZ...big pain. She trading a lot of resources to Vassal, and GK is in police state, his favourate..so its war war war for him...A nice attack dog to unleash.

she has '-8, this war spoils our relationship' so she must be hurting with the war, I'd keep at it...then unleash GK on HC....go in for some pillaging your self....raise ALL those towns........pillage his research.

If you keep raising cities, she'll have to spend time and troops rebuilding/garrisoning them again....

For some reason I can't see the screenshots but from what I am reading Cathy lost about 5 cities? That combined with the other cities that Cathy already lost and Genghis still eating away at her cities she will have her hands full. If you really want to the RPG to succeed then I guess it is peace and you should start to concentrate on the economy build up and get the great artist pump going. I don't know if you have enough resources for the cooperations (jewelers and creative?) but you will propably need them. Still so far, you are living up to your difficult task, so praise for that.

As you achieved your war objectives (from what looked a very bad situation) and Russia is now offering a sensible deal for peace I say take it and as Killroyan says get some culture going.
HC is probably now the major threat to winning this game

War, definitely, don't stop until she is eliminated from the game. I would think it would be preferable to avoid letting her vassal to Genghis so you can avoid the motherland :( in the former russian cities.

At that point you can sick Genghis on HC and Saladin should be no real long-term threat to you.

As you achieved your war objectives (from what looked a very bad situation) and Russia is now offering a sensible deal for peace I say take it and as Killroyan says get some culture going.
HC is probably now the major threat to winning this game

Judging by the screenshot, that looks like to be the case.

However, we must remember that the year is still in the 1400s, and beating HC will become easier if more land is gained from Catherine.

Why? Because if the war against Catherine continues to be successful, Shaka will control much more land than HC, and eventually share a border with HC.

Defeating Catherine entirely will make HC more accessible to Shaka's troops. Having GK as an ally will increase the vulnerability of HC to Shaka's troops. These troops can be used to take out HC's economy and prevent him from winning.

Another benefit of continuing the conquest is that Shaka can gain more cities to support his economy. This means that the three future legendary cities can concentrate on building Wonders to enhance their culture, while the new cities gained from Catherine can take on the military responsibilities and possibly use hammers to buy research or money.

Seams like a split between war and peace.

So here ar emy thoughts

WW is a big problem for us. We do not have the power to completely take out Cathy right now, we do not have the beakers to tech military science, and we do not have the production to build new units quickly.

SO I propose this, we take peace not, get the cash, ramp up the science to tech military science. We give it the 10 turns then hit cathy again as ahe sends her eastern troops towards GK's western forces.

Taking out HC, building wonders, getting culture ar eitems that can wait ad best not to get distracted with them. I think the issue is the immediate danger, and that is Cathy being alive to reattack later with superior teched troops.

SO I say peace for the immediate future until we tech military science, quick buildup, the hit her. The SoZ is gone, so half the WW. I also say I hit those northen cities and the one southern as they are difficult for her to defend and ship troops to.

do whatever is necessary to take out cathy entirely asap. if that means 10 turns of peace, so be it.

That whole economy thing you got now is really worrisome, I mean essentially you're running at 60% wealth and you're still loosing a decent chunk of money each turn. Maybe you can convert some people into merchants, slap down some cottages, or build some markets and banks. I have a hard time fighting a war if my science slider is down going into it.

You're right to want to take out Catherine though, once you have bad relations with her, she's the type that will wait until you are least prepared for a fight then come after you.

Take the breather so the WW goes away, then FINISH HER! She's not the forgiving type, so reinforce the SoDs for the next round.

As for the Culture victory, you can prep Moscow to run a GArtist farm. Farm everything, build the Hermitage, Theatres etcetera and run as many Artists as allowed.

Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: Part VIII

Alright, we are halfway there!!! No not killing off Cathy, we essentially did that, but now the second part. We need to right the economy and rush towards that culture win before HC can win the game. For the record HC is getting close to electing himself a UN diplomatic win!

First of all we accept Cathy's peace offer. A few turns ltaer her and GK declare peace, but only a ceasefire, not a 10-turn treay. We finish of military sceince ASAP and start on some grenaders.

Note how the powergraph is from last round. Cathy took a beating while we stayed status quo.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0000.jpg

Also a very interesting thing happened.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0001.jpg

well now, aint that a nice surprize!

And the vote

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0002.jpg

Which we declare war on Cathy. Followed by

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0003.jpg

My strategy is to let Khan take her core cities while I knock out those northen and southern cities first. If she capitulates I do not want that culture pressure.

Very quickly we take and raze the first northen city.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0004.jpg

we then split that force and send them northeast and northwest for the 2 coastal cities which I plan to keep so we can lock up several happy resources.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0005.jpg

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0007.jpg

This was using our veteran outdated force. The newly built grenaders are heading south.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0008.jpg

That's one. Also GK has captured several of Cathy's western cities.

Powergraph numbers, Cathy aint doing so good now, is she.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0009.jpg

What remains of the once Mighty Russian empire.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0010.jpg

Now really consider what has happened in this game. I destryed Joaoa, Cathy destroyed DeGaulle and essentiall Saladin, and GK and us ar edestroying Cathy. Right now it's a three man game.

Oh yes, remember the AP vote, well semas like we all agree to hate Cathy. Too bad one of her razed city was her only AP city!!!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0012.jpg

So we get some brownie points from HC.

Our entire sourthen border is cleared

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0013.jpg

we razed two more NW cities

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0014.jpg

GK took her last large city and capital, and Cathy capitulated to GK, holing up in the tiny city of Lyons. We quickly sue for peace with Sal.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0015.jpg

The tech situation
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0016.jpg

Think I can get Cathy to make a trade with us?

The Zulu empire

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0018.jpg

And victory conditions.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/SHaka/ShakaI0019.jpg

OK folks, we got our third culture city. Both Moscow and Lisbon have been culture bombed once. The Zulu capital is decent but will need some serious culture slider help.

So where do we go now?????

Rebuild the economy. Well OK.. banks/markets/grocers. Ignore military for a bit

Culture in the big three. Yeah we can start that, artist specialists galore.

Corps? Yeah right we'll never get there fast enough, but we will try.

Techs? well we are sort of stuck there. Noone to trade with.

Speaking of techs, we are teching steel. Where do we go after that? HC has at least physics and we have some "we demand emancipation" unhappiness messages.

Also, let's hear the suggested civics. Right now we have HR/Nat./Caste/Merc/Theo

EDIT:
One last thing, Diplomacy. We are in a tight spot. If we incite GK against HC (which I believe we can bride GK to do) then we are in trouble if HC rolls over GK. Likewise if GK actually starts laying it on HC, he could be an uncontrollable monster who looks hungrily at us while we try and culture our way to victory. Generally GK can be a loyal friends, but he will likely ask us to fight againsy HC and every refusal results in more bad blood.

I'm not sure if you've answered this or not, but I'm just curious, why haven't you wiped out Saladin yet?

Shouldn't it be relatively easy to wipe out his two cities?

At this point you really shouldn't need to war anymore. Just try to get HC up to at least pleased if at all possible so he won't attack you. If there are no more wars Genghis will stay at friendly, as long as you keep giving in to his demands and he doesn't convert religions or go free religion (never ever seen this happen). A friendly Genghis is not a threat.

The game is won as long as HC doesn't beat you to legendary. Just farm your capitals and get working on the artist specialists.

Tech situation is more or less irrelevant for a culture win. You don't need corps or broadcast towers or wonders for it.

I'd keep HR going for now, now running emancipation gonig to make keeping people happy a bit harder than usual. Keep the Caste System. Switch to Free Speech and Pacifism if your economy can handle that. With all those artist specialists, you might aswell try to get faster GA's.

Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: PArt IX

OK, I am crusing along with this game now but decided an update was appropriate. Basically we stpped producing any military units, are running artists galore in the three cities, pumping our GAs, and building infrastructure in the remaining cities. The culture slider has not been adjusted yet, so we are teching as we normally would.

First of all we shifted civics, taking the pricey pacifism.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0000.jpg

We made a trade for cash with our Mongol friend

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0001.jpg

All the while we look for every opportunity to hike the science slider up anotehr 10%.

There was a question about wht I did not finish off Sal. Why should I. As you can see

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0002.jpg

Sal is none too popular. we even got the AP to force HC into the Sal dogpile. I went to a phoney war about three times in this segment, just to keep GK and HC happy. Cathy still makes unreasonable demands and basically we tell her to drop dead. By the end of the segment we have caught up with most of the techs with her.

While Shaka plans to live the rest of the game in peace enjoying all the artists performing arround him, he is not stupid and continues to build military techs.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0004.jpg

Out techline was Steel/Printing Press/Scientific Method/Biology which actually allowed us to

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0005.jpg

Hey we actually could trade a tech to HC! Some of you will question this, why get him closer to the spaceship, but I am betting we get the cultural victory first or GK goes after him (he did once this segment).

WE also got the gaurentee of not getting into a war with GK.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0006.jpg

And HC is generally smart enough not to initiate things against either of us. The question is if Khan can hold his temper against HC.

We also got some ash from GK

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0007.jpg

And got this

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0008.jpg

I am not sure this trade was worth it as I do not plan to adopt emancipation if we get democracy. But a tech is a tech.

The victory conditions

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0009.jpg

We definitely need alot more GAs and perhaps we can luck out and get one GM for sid's. Forget the later wonders, HC already built Broadway.

Diplomacy

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0010.jpg

Pretty simple. Either me GK and Cathy against HC, if it comes to that.

And the three cities

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0011.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0012.jpg
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0013.jpg

I'll keep you updated with any unexpected occurences.

Looks like you have this one wrapped up. Broadway and Rock and Roll could be scary if HC built/builds them in his 2nd and 3rd cities - 50% more culture could make him out-race you.

Save your GAs until they will cause you to win - don't burn them early as it might be a wasteful use.

Wait until you see HCs teching stop (meaning he's maxing his cultural slider), then bribe Ghengis to attack him and max out your own culture slider FTW.

Is this Epic or Normal speed?

Nevermind - just checked the 1st post - it's Marathon - lol. Cuzco isn't even Legendary yet, eh?

In that case R&R and Broadway are serious concerns - a 50% culture bonus when neither of you are even halfway through the race is seriously concerning - but I still think you have this wrapped up. As many GAs as possible, tech normally until HC stops doing so, have your lapdog attack him, then slider it up.

Looks like you have this one wrapped up. Broadway and Rock and Roll could be scary if HC built/builds them in his 2nd and 3rd cities - 50% more culture could make him out-race you.

Save your GAs until they will cause you to win - don't burn them early as it might be a wasteful use.

Wait until you see HCs teching stop (meaning he's maxing his cultural slider), then bribe Ghengis to attack him and max out your own culture slider FTW.

Is this Epic or Normal speed?

My RPCs are always marathon speed so I need 150000 prelegendary city.

It's not even close to being done and a MAJOR event has occurred.

Madscientist,

I have always loved your RPC's and would usually read parts of them, mainly the beginnning and end :),

But I must say, this is my favorite so far, I am hanging on every psot waiting for the next.

Great job.

Shaka A Gentleman of Culture: The Bitter END!

Sorry folks we tried. We made a heroic attempt to wrestle that third legondary city from Catherine, but HC was too much ahead. The unhappy :sad: recap.

First thing all hell broke lose as HC declared war on GK, causing us to declare on HC because of teh defensive Pact. Obviously a major erro in diplomacy here.

HC rips very quickly through Mongol lands (and here we thought we could bribe GK into taking HC down!). After a while we could get peace from Hyuna for 500 gold but before Incan battleships pillaged Lisbon seafood.

We did everything we could to repair relations, including a fairly decent trade

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0014.jpg

But the object of our doom has arisen.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0015.jpg

Of course HC does not auromatically ask for a diplomatic win, which he has enough votes to do. HE drags it out.

As you can see in teh vote

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0016.jpg

Khan is almost gone.

Soon after Cathy breaks away from Khan capitulating to HC, and immediately GK capitulated to Hyuna. So the world against Shaka.

Now we still tried win this thing popping some GAs, but agrevatingly getting THREE prophets! Well one was for the Buddhist shrine, one for a GA, and one sat arround and preached to the masses of the Zulu people while we waited to see if another great person popped out for anotehr GA.

Have a look at the former Mongol lands

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0017.jpg

Yes, Incan tanks versus our rifles ( and we havce few of those). I have been there before. But we still struggled on.

Like I said, HC seamed to delight in dragging this thing out, using to UN to force us into FR. Damn, pacifism for those fast GAs were our only hope.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaJ0019.jpg

But still we played on, hoping in a mere 500 turns we can get enough culture in Moscow to win.

You can see the victory screen, yes HC is ahead in all and even built Apollo.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaK0001.jpg

We just popped a GA in moscow, and culture bombed him. I guess HC did not like me even looking to pull ahead in the culture race because...

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd118/MSguy_photo/ShakaK0002.jpg

Now I would still fight it out until the end here if it was just HC. But I do not want to see Russian Cossacks pillaging our lands, so that's the end.

ANother failed RPC, but sure as hell was alot of fun!!!!!!!!!

Reasons for our loss:

Very simple, we waited too long to hit Cathy. Probably should have taken her out before Joao. The Mongol DP was a mistake but I have a feeling I would still have seen Incan tanks in our lands anyway. Ulandi should have been farmed and a GA farm sooner.

The annoying thing is that we came so damn close to pulling this off.

SO what does everyone think.

Do we restart another Gentleman Shaka game, using 2 hemispheres instead of the Pangea map.

Or do we move onto the next game.

Asoka and the Doomsday Machine: Asoka (who must found Buddhism) stuck on a PAngea map with the games biggest war-mongers who do not start with mysticism. Asoka must convert all to Buddhism or FR, then he can win Via the AP, UN, or domination. War is only open to non-Buddhist leaders. Oh, Once Asoka techs Buddhism, the god will grant him a gand weapon of defense, a modern armor tank which must remain within cultural borders (I'll need someone willing to take the save and use world builder to give it to us).

I'll go either way. Thanks for the help on this one!

to come so close and then not win... :sad:
especially after pulling it back from the middle game when you were considering restarting, even in defeat really well played.
I think this a good variant and should be played again but maybe after a change of pace with the Asoka game?

Really bad luck with your opponents. Joao and Cathy, the both Rex pains, as your closest neighbours. The wonder/tech monster, the Holy Idiot(I really hate him, but he is in each game) and the Mighty Khan. Only De Gaule was a "good" neighbour, but it was not enough.

Anyway I vote for new Shaka game with the same rules, but at 2 hemispheres. It is a lot of fun and Asoka can wait!

Good for you for trying to stick it out.

As for the next RPC, why don't you go ahead with Asoka for a change of pace, then try Shaka again? I like alternating Builder and Warmonger games myself, and after a long game as Isabella with nearly continuous war against technologically superior AIs, I'm going to play a Builder game with Rameses. In your case, mayhem from the get-go might be refreshing, instead of having to make nice with the neighbors.

I really thoight you were going to pull it off after taking out Cathy. Bad Luck!
I do hope you have another go at Shaka some time, maybe not immediately.

I really think your big mistake in this game was not taking out Cathy first, then Joao. I started a shadow game a week ago, and instead of putting hammers into Stonehenge, I put them into axes/impis. I went worker, worker, settler, ikanda, warrior warrior. I settled next to the bronze asap, built an ikanda in city 2, and both cities started churning out C1CR1 axes and impis. Cathy only had two cities up (Moscow & St. Pete), and I only lost 2 axes taking her down. I immediately went after Joao, taking his 3 cities easily (both Cath and Joao only had archers). After that, I spent a lot of time in peaceful isolation rebuilding my economy and filling in my empire. Eventually DeGaulle and Saladin started settling near me, and I made them my best buds. HC and GK hated me, but I was completely sealed off from them by Sal and DeG. I built the mids, parth, HG, Sistine, Notre Dame, etc. It was one of the easiest wins I've ever had, and I usually struggle on Prince! :lol: By the time the others began settling near me, Moscow's culture created a huge buffer zone. I eventually took 2 french cities loaded with fully developed towns and plantations via culture flip (and DeGaulle was still pleased with me!) :crazyeye: I won in 1887 with around 45K points (my biggest win ever, which shows you I'm no ace at CIV. ;) ) after bombing 10 saved GArtists. :nuke: I just made sure I never was at less than parity militarily, and kept Chuck and Sal happy (they were never less than friendly, usually pleased). I declared fake war on HC and GK several times for diplo points, but never sent a unit - they couldn't touch me. :lol: Every time HC showed up demanding a tech he looked like he was going to have a coronary! It was so much fun blowing him off with impunity. :p

I really think your big mistake in this game was not taking out Cathy first, then Joao. I started a shadow game a week ago, and instead of putting hammers into Stonehenge, I put them into axes/impis. I went worker, worker, settler, ikanda, warrior warrior. I settled next to the bronze asap, built an ikanda in city 2, and both cities started churning out C1CR1 axes and impis. Cathy only had two cities up (Moscow & St. Pete), and I only lost 2 axes taking her down. I immediately went after Joao, taking his 3 cities easily (both Cath and Joao only had archers). After that, I spent a lot of time in peaceful isolation rebuilding my economy and filling in my empire. Eventually DeGaulle and Saladin started settling near me, and I made them my best buds. HC and GK hated me, but I was completely sealed off from them by Sal and DeG. I built the mids, parth, HG, Sistine, Notre Dame, etc. It was one of the easiest wins I've ever had, and I usually struggle on Prince! :lol: By the time the others began settling near me, Moscow's culture created a huge buffer zone. I eventually took 2 french cities loaded with fully developed towns and plantations via culture flip (and DeGaulle was still pleased with me!) :crazyeye: I won in 1887 with around 45K points (my biggest win ever, which shows you I'm no ace at CIV. ;) ) after bombing 10 saved GArtists. :nuke: I just made sure I never was at less than parity militarily, and kept Chuck and Sal happy (they were never less than friendly, usually pleased). I declared fake war on HC and GK several times for diplo points, but never sent a unit - they couldn't touch me. :lol: Every time HC showed up demanding a tech he looked like he was going to have a coronary! It was so much fun blowing him off with impunity. :p

Congrats on the win, and glad it was a workable situation!

Alas, I am the first to admit I make my share of mistakes. Not the best player but entertaining.

I am glad to here someone shadowed the game and won. Makes me rethink things in the future as far as an even faster rush.

Congrats on the win, and glad it was a workable situation!

Alas, I am the first to admit I make my share of mistakes. Not the best player but entertaining.

I am glad to here someone shadowed the game and won. Makes me rethink things in the future as far as an even faster rush.


Well, I love following your games. I've really learned a lot through following them. I make lots of mistakes, too, but somehow this game just came together for me. I've never played marathon before; it always seemed soooo ssslllllooooowwww to me. But playing this game I started to develop a real appreciation for it; it's nice to build an army that doesn't become obsolete in 20 turns. :lol:

Anyway, keep running these games - I'm learning a lot. :cool:

huiefanista, I certainly understand. Every so often there are game that just fall into line or games that are just a lost cause. An example from is a recent off-line Charlemange game on an arid Pangea map. AS I mentioned in another thread I think Chuck is a poor leader to start with, but somehow everything just fell in line in that game. Got a domination win in 1600 AD before I even got steam power or physics, unusual in marathon for me.

I can see how this Shaka game could have been played better at the very start. Well not played better, I think I did OK, but played different. The key was probably cutting that copper source off completely from Cathy, so you probably teched BW before I did archey. Getting the copper was what I wanted to do with Cathy, but was slowed up by it culture flipped and getting Stonehenge for the free monuments. Perhaps this should have been my exception to the "archery rule" as I knew I hed to get those capitals early.

Glad you follow the games! And again thanks for the feedback on the shadow game!

'A' for effort MadS - I lurk in almost all your games and just wanted to applaud all the hard work that goes into them. Sometimes the losses are more educational than the wins.

Looking forward to the next one. :goodjob:

'A' for effort MadS - I lurk in almost all your games and just wanted to applaud all the hard work that goes into them. Sometimes the losses are more educational than the wins.

Looking forward to the next one. :goodjob:

Thanks HR. I play through the games even in a losing situation. Even players that post games and are good players (well I win usually at Monarch under normal conditions) lose games. Sometimes what looks to be unwinable cna be turned arround (as in Willem's game).

That was pretty interesting. I haven't tried for a cultural victory since I started playing this game again in November (and reading these forums). Seems like cultural victories are tough to come by. With military and space wins the science is key the entire way, when you're doing cultural I remember having to can the science in the modern age and run like 100% culture on the slider, I made it a point in all my cultural wins to build every cathedral I could in my big 3 cities but that was playing the CE and on Noble. This is monarch, which I play now, and I know the rules are a bit different.

Best of luck with the next RPC, maybe you could do part II since all this cultural stuff is fresh in your mind.

That was pretty interesting. I haven't tried for a cultural victory since I started playing this game again in November (and reading these forums). Seems like cultural victories are tough to come by. With military and space wins the science is key the entire way, when you're doing cultural I remember having to can the science in the modern age and run like 100% culture on the slider, I made it a point in all my cultural wins to build every cathedral I could in my big 3 cities but that was playing the CE and on Noble. This is monarch, which I play now, and I know the rules are a bit different.

Best of luck with the next RPC, maybe you could do part II since all this cultural stuff is fresh in your mind.

It's already underway!!!! The hit the nail on the head, play the RPC rules so they are fresh in my head.

I've never seen the AI get tanks that early! Crazy! Great game!