Well we know that both the governor's manor and the pillar of chains gives production. Is there a good way to exploit this or should happiness always be kept in check? I am very curious about this mechanic.

Well unhappy citizen produces as much as a lame Laborer specialist, so obviously unhappiness should still be avoided but with Gov's manor or pillar it's less of a trouble. With both combined, it is still 0/2/0 population point. Not really ideal, but it is a nice production bonus. So I guess it's working as intended. I don't think unhappy citizen will ever produce more than normal one.

Aye, you are better with a normal citizen being an engineer (or Priest with enough altars) so you can get 2 Hammer + GPP. But, I guess if you were able to cough up a TON of food, but had all of your specialist slots full already, it could work nicely.

Like with the ashen veil civic for example...

I haven't played with the Calabim in a while, but the last time I did during BTS fire, I was still getting that extremely annoying rioting event if I had unhappy population. The loss of worker turns/productive tile turns far outweighed any bonuses I was getting from unhappy population typically since I got that event literally all the time.

I think the Calabim should be immune to that event. The population knows what will happen to them if they get too out of line.

Yeah, and Calabim should have MUCH less problems with crime. I think -30 crime in all cities for their palace would be good.

I think that the Breeding pits should increase crime, but the Governors Manor should decrease it dramatically (~-50?)

I'm not sure a building can change crime in any city but its own.


I also feel that the feast option in the rioting event should really be changed. Losing population with no bonus doesn't seem like a good unique option. I think that generating culture would be a good side effect.

only way unhappiness is good is if you're still growing 1 pop per turn so you can get more xp for your vampires

also, if pillar of chains and governors manor stacked (they don't last i checked) and you were running sacrifice the weak, then itd be worth it since:
you get 2 :hammers:
for 1 :food: + 1 :yuck:

It would not be worth it but at least you would break even...

Is it not worth it if you are getting production well above and beyond your happy cap? Yes its going to cost you in food support of the angry populace, but if you do get 2 hammers for every unhappy citizen, you are still getting the same production from your tiles and specialist that are happy. For example if you have a happy cap of 12, you can only run X number of specialist that you can support, or 12 tiles, or a combination. But if you have a governor's manor and pillar of chains in addition to the 12 happy cititizens that you can allocate to tiles or specialists, you are getting 2 base hammers per angry person which is as good as an unimproved plains/hill minus one food. If you have the food to support a population of 16, but not the happy to make them work, at least you get an extra 8 hammers. Overall I think if you have the food to support this, it actually is worth it.

Edit: I just worldbuildered to check and it seems that the Governor's Manor is not giving one hammer per unhappy populace right now. So its not possible to check if the wonder stacks with this.

For some reason the govenours manor doesn't give you hammers the first time you play the calabim. Multiple people i know have discovered this.

Is it not worth it if you are getting production well above and beyond your happy cap? Yes its going to cost you in food support of the angry populace, but if you do get 2 hammers for every unhappy citizen, you are still getting the same production from your tiles and specialist that are happy. For example if you have a happy cap of 12, you can only run X number of specialist that you can support, or 12 tiles, or a combination. But if you have a governor's manor and pillar of chains in addition to the 12 happy cititizens that you can allocate to tiles or specialists, you are getting 2 base hammers per angry person which is as good as an unimproved plains/hill minus one food. If you have the food to support a population of 16, but not the happy to make them work, at least you get an extra 8 hammers. Overall I think if you have the food to support this, it actually is worth it.

Edit: I just worldbuildered to check and it seems that the Governor's Manor is not giving one hammer per unhappy populace right now. So its not possible to check if the wonder stacks with this.
It still isn't worth it if every few turns, multiple tiles near your unhappy cities are being autopillaged. There are plenty of ways to generate extra hammers above and beyond your happy cap that don't involve running above the happy cap for any significant amount of time.

In my games, I never allow cities to go over the happy cap anymore since that event can happen on the turn that transitions from happy to unhappy and invariable does that exact turn if I slip up. An untimely pillage of a strategic resource can end your game for you, an untimely pillage of a happiness resource can really hurt your economy for many turns and can also cascade unhappiness across your empire leading to more pillage events. The only one that doesn't hurt so much is the pillage of a health resource or a non-resource tile.

Has this event been changed in Shadow for Calabim? Like I said, I haven't played them since the end of Fire and was very disappointed with the fact that one of their flavor buildings was useless beyond its courthouse and vampire production purposes.

For some reason the govenours manor doesn't give you hammers the first time you play the calabim. Multiple people i know have discovered this.

The first time you play them? Does this mean that the second game you play as them you get hammers or ...?


Has this event been changed in Shadow for Calabim? Like I said, I haven't played them since the end of Fire and was very disappointed with the fact that one of their flavor buildings was useless beyond its courthouse and vampire production purposes.

I haven't seen this event, although I haven't tried to utilize unhappiness for production. I do however grow cities well beyond the happy cap just to eat the populace. (shadow, patch f, haven't played calabim in patch g yet.)

Has this event been changed in Shadow for Calabim? Like I said, I haven't played them since the end of Fire and was very disappointed with the fact that one of their flavor buildings was useless beyond its courthouse and vampire production purposes.

It is still in, but I only know this because I have seen an alert telling me that an AI city suffered it. I get :mad: faces all the time in my cities, but I've never had them go out into my fat cross and start pillaging stuff. I would guess based on that that the event is in, but is now rarer.

If one has 25 population and, say 30 happy faces and 15 angry faces does this mean 15 more hammers?

No, you get extra hammers for "Angry Citizen" specialists. So you need a population higher than your Happy Faces to see any result.

Manors and the Pillar don't stack. I guess the Manor was working, I just wasn't reading it correctly. I believe the two should stack, I don't think 0/2/0 is overpowered by any means.

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/5356/pillarandmanortr8.th.jpg (http://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pillarandmanortr8.jpg) http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/315/76783052tt1.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=76783052tt1.jpg) http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4312/umanorej6.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=umanorej6.jpg)

Also, always remember unhappy populations cause rioting and the destruction of improvements around the city.

I don't think there is any way to really exploit Calabim Anger. Especially considering a city with the Mansion probably is a lower population city you're using to build units not econ with. (if you're using it to feed off of, by definition those unhappy faces will... disapear... anyway!)

Also, always remember unhappy populations cause rioting and the destruction of improvements around the city.
I don't see this event often enough to worry about it. Even if there is some auto-pillaging, I usually have enough workers or slaves around to fix it quickly.

I don't think there is any way to really exploit Calabim Anger. Especially considering a city with the Mansion probably is a lower population city you're using to build units not econ with. (if you're using it to feed off of, by definition those unhappy faces will... disapear... anyway!)
With Flauros, I tend to build manors in all of my cities for the maintainence reduction bonus, and they are half price.

*facepalm* good point.

The pedia says that the Pillar of Chains does away with rioting due to anger ("negative effects" was the wording, I think), which is great. Gov's Manor doesn't do this as far as I know. The upshot of both is to compensate for the anger caused by slavery and feasting. Neither do any good for a city with a static population.

The pedia says that the Pillar of Chains does away with rioting due to anger ("negative effects" was the wording, I think), which is great. Gov's Manor doesn't do this as far as I know. The upshot of both is to compensate for the anger caused by slavery and feasting. Neither do any good for a city with a static population.

I believe the wording is "negates effects of civic anger", which would be anger caused by not having republic or ?. Is republic the only thing that causes civic anger? It does give one hammer in the city that founds the wonder, but it doesn't give and additional hammer if you already have a Governor's Manor.

I think that Liberty may also have the penalty now.

I think that Liberty may also have the penalty now.

Is that "CivicPercentAnger"? According to the editor only Republic has a non-zero value.

That might be how angry your citizens get when someone else is running Republic then. The further your system is from Republic, the madder they get.

i always thought the more other civs are running republic, the more angry they get (like emancipation in vanilla)

I was reading his statement backwards somehow (frazzled on a test right now, I will blame everything on that) and read it as only Republic HAVING a zero value. :P

It would be mildly interesting if every civic had a value and the anger that you suffered was the difference between your current PercentAnger and that of the highest percentage that any civ you have met is running. Then as other people start to treat their population better and better yours just get madder and madder :)

I am not sure about this, but I believe manor gives you production bonus for every angry citizen, even below a happy cap, at least im my version of FFH2 (Tholals More Naval AI). Don't know about the Pillar though.

The Pillar of Chains works the same way as the Governor's Manor, and I don't believe the bonuses stack. Having one or both in the same city will still only grant +1 :hammers: per :mad:

It seems wrong to me that the thematically most appropriate civilization gets no real bonus from this wonder, thus in my modmod I give them a UB that grants a free Governor's manor in every city.

This was a necroed thread, so it seems the mechanics have changed between when it started and now.