This map script generates a random fantasy type world. It was specifically created for Kael's 'Fall from Heaven 2' mod for Civ 4, but can also be used for native Civ 4.

Fantasy worlds often have distinct regions or valleys that have their own special climate or atmosphere. Some examples would be Mordor from LOTR, or most of the regions in World of Warcraft. Well this map script is designed to have various 'valleys' connected to one another through mountain passes, such that each region is kindof a fortress on it's own.

Because this map script was created for FFH2, starting locations and other features are placed based on what is known about each civs fictional terrain preferences. These preferences are tunable toward the beginning of the script

Download Creation.py here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8281) from the Downloads database. To use this map, put the file in your Civ4\PublicMaps or BTS\PublicMaps folder.

-Help! there's no reagents!-
If you have a problem with reagents not appearing on the map, see this thread for an easy fix.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267577

Here are some close up screenshots:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170615&stc=1&d=1204771775
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170616&stc=1&d=1204771775
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170617&stc=1&d=1204771775
Here are some standard size map overviews:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170618&stc=1&d=1204771775 http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170619&stc=1&d=1204771775 http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170620&stc=1&d=1204771775
And some huge sized map overviews:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170621&stc=1&d=1204771775 http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=170622&stc=1&d=1204771775
Version History
1.06 - Added some of the new preferences for FfH 0.32 unique improvements. Improved the choke point code to choose more valueable choke points for watchtowers and a new unique improvement coming in 0.33.

1.05 - Cleaned up peak generation so that peaks on the map edge aren't always on desert. This prevents large amounts of flames slowing down the framerate. Added the 'scrubs' feature to map generation. Fixed a bug that prevented valleys from growing enough to find a neighbor, resulting in the 'region has no gate' error.

1.04 - Added a tuning variable called SoftenPeakPercent which allows you to turn a percentage of peaks into hills to perforate the valleys and make them less like fortresses. Fixed a bug in detecting network games.

1.03 - Cleared forest and jungle from 1 tile around starting plot. This mod requires high tech levels to clear them and this can be a large hindrance. Civ preference with allowForestStart = True(Elves) will not clear the forest.

1.02 - Added a new civ placement scheme for FFH2 civs. Added a similar scheme for FFH2 unique improvements. Improved the way ancient towers are placed. Shrank the map yet again due the high percentage of playable land. Softened the effect of non-sea level land touching coast.

1.01 - Improved water area generation to more consistently make interesting map shapes. Water spread used to paint itself into a corner, this has been fixed. Prevented seas from being divided by small isthmuses. Only peaks and ocean will touch the map edge. Filled unreachable areas with peaks, we don't want Hyborem spawning there and you know he will if you let him. Shrank each map size, as there was too much room to expand for the default number of civs for each map size, resulting in no reason to go to war until late game. Temporarily added David Reichert's flavour map mod until I can do something with starting regions.

I love the shot of Letum Frigus isolated in a corner of the mountains like that. So a thought occurs to wonder if it can be scripted so that all of the unique features are likely to be in an isolated location similar to that. Could be quite interesting, making a city with one of those VERY nicely fortified (1 attack direction), but easily set to Siege (1 direction to block), and make it unlikely you can use a unique feature AND the entire fat cross, thus balancing out their improved yield slightly :)

Plus for those without an improved yield you wind up having to plant a city near them or your culture alone will never reach it. And Ideally it makes it less likely to start near one of them. Ooh, added bonus is that it limits Barbatos' field of death ;)

I love the shot of Letum Frigus isolated in a corner of the mountains like that. So a thought occurs to wonder if it can be scripted so that all of the unique features are likely to be in an isolated location similar to that. Could be quite interesting, making a city with one of those VERY nicely fortified (1 attack direction), but easily set to Siege (1 direction to block), and make it unlikely you can use a unique feature AND the entire fat cross, thus balancing out their improved yield slightly :)

Plus for those without an improved yield you wind up having to plant a city near them or your culture alone will never reach it. And Ideally it makes it less likely to start near one of them. Ooh, added bonus is that it limits Barbatos' field of death ;)

Try a few maps and see what you think. ;) They don't all appear on each map however. These placements are also tunable.

I am downloading this new release now.

In the previous release, I generated a map that was filled with the normal peaks and valleys and oceans, but 99% of the non-peak land tiles were forest or jungle (all hills were forested or jungled as well). I walked my settler, scout, and warrior through three valleys and did not find a section that was not all forests/jungles.

I am downloading this new release now.

In the previous release, I generated a map that was filled with the normal peaks and valleys and oceans, but 99% of the non-peak land tiles were forest or jungle (all hills were forested or jungled as well). I walked my settler, scout, and warrior through three valleys and did not find a section that was not all forests/jungles.

This should work a little better. I know how devesting an all forest start can be with this mod. The default starting placement should avoid the wettest areas (hopefully).

this mapscript is coming along nicely, we had some problems with a previous version going OOS in multiplayer right off, but im hoping it was because of the lack of a player starting spot scheme, great work :)

Terrific job cephalo!

this mapscript is coming along nicely, we had some problems with a previous version going OOS in multiplayer right off, but im hoping it was because of the lack of a player starting spot scheme, great work :)

Hmm, I can't remember, but I thought I read that the flavour map mod had some issues with that. That's replaced now so any further issues will be something I did. The only thing I know of that will cause OOS in a map is inconsistent use of random number generators. For MP, you have to use the ones provided by the mapRand.

Finally had some time to play for a little while on the map, but I've loaded it hundreds of times while testing buttons and whatnot in game :)

Anyway, very interesting playstyle changes needed to use this map. I love it FAR more than the "Maze" maps, unless I want to play Lanun and completely destroy the world ;)

On thing I notced early: Hunting is a MUST HAVE technology now. With all those peaks around, Hawks are Godly (and you can avoid wading through 30 turns of forested walking to find it is just a dead end)

Finally had some time to play for a little while on the map, but I've loaded it hundreds of times while testing buttons and whatnot in game :)

Anyway, very interesting playstyle changes needed to use this map. I love it FAR more than the "Maze" maps, unless I want to play Lanun and completely destroy the world ;)

On thing I notced early: Hunting is a MUST HAVE technology now. With all those peaks around, Hawks are Godly (and you can avoid wading through 30 turns of forested walking to find it is just a dead end)

Yeah, that's why I'd like to see hawks toned down a bit. Exploration is fun! No need to bypass it almost entirely in my opinion.

SCORE! I had an idea and it worked.


First, I was stupid and didn't write things down, but I loaded up a random game to see if my idea would work, and I got a TON of python errors. All I can remember is one said something about not being able to find a gate. Wound up loading the game still, but it was solid plains :(


Anyway, reloaded and it was fine (so something just tried to place itself wrong I guess?), so here is the result of my idea:

Forests placed on Mountains block Hawk sight range :) So if you can decide on which type of forest you like graphically for being on top of a mountain, that is a possible solution to the problem that can be implemented with the mapscript only.

Forests placed on Mountains block Hawk sight range So if you can decide on which type of forest you like graphically for being on top of a mountain, that is a possible solution to the problem that can be implemented with the mapscript only.
but when a fol civ's borders go over a mountain range eventually it will become a ancient forest which doesn't form/move/change to match the terrain. (hopefully someone will find a way to fix that)

Yeah, Ancient Forests (and Burnt) look horrible above the mountains :( I was hoping you could go with burnt so it is still clearly a mountain, but that will upgrade to new, normal, ancient as well.


However, my favorite for look is Jungles, and those can't go ancient (but cause health issues.... might be a problem.

I am 400 turns into a game on the previous version of the map script and I do not think I know Hunting yet. Maybe I do, because I think I can build hunting lodges, but I have not built a hunter or a hawk.

I enjoyed having to wend my may through valleys and passes to explore the map. I actually found, after a couple hundred turns, that my civ was alone on about half the map. You have to travel through a long, narrow corridor (2 wide, about 15-20 tiles long) between peaks to reach a branching point that lead to three other civs. The last two civs are completely isolated by land as a chain of peaks cuts off every pass (yet I somehow made contact with them and two of my towns demanded to flip to their cultures across mountains).

This game is also memorable because Rosier the Fallen wiped out all three of my neighboring civs by himself.

I am 400 turns into a game on the previous version of the map script and I do not think I know Hunting yet. Maybe I do, because I think I can build hunting lodges, but I have not built a hunter or a hawk.

I enjoyed having to wend my may through valleys and passes to explore the map. I actually found, after a couple hundred turns, that my civ was alone on about half the map. You have to travel through a long, narrow corridor (2 wide, about 15-20 tiles long) between peaks to reach a branching point that lead to three other civs. The last two civs are completely isolated by land as a chain of peaks cuts off every pass (yet I somehow made contact with them and two of my towns demanded to flip to their cultures across mountains).

This game is also memorable because Rosier the Fallen wiped out all three of my neighboring civs by himself.

Yeah, that previous version is a very large map. I shrank the maps by another 8 tiles in each direction and I think it's much more reasonable now. It shouldn't be so big that your economy can never handle expanding into the available room, as was kindof the case.

The 'gate' bug, that xienwolf mentioned is a tough one to figure out because it happens so rarely. When a region cannot find a place for it's river to smoothly flow into the next region, this exception is thrown. It's should be impossible for that to happen, but obviously it's not. In any case you can just generate a new map.

I got another one AFTER the game finished loading (The "Start of Civilization splash screen was up). I was Malakim, and it sounded like it was unable to find any desert, and since it REALLY wanted to put me on desert it bugged.

Hey Cephalo

This map script is great. I thought you might like a little feedback from my one and only try so far.

Playing as the Amurites I started in an area totally surrounded by jungle. I had gems all around so decided to go for it anyway and beeline to sanitation. Poor plan I know and things were as expected, absolute rubbish. There I was stuck on 1 population unable to build anything in less than 30 turns and rapidly getting bored. Then I was lucky in getting Knowledge of the Ether from a hut and rushed out a mage guild and an adept. Quick fire later and the entire map was on fire and my 100% jungle became 50% fire and 50% growing/burnt/normal forest at any one time. Cool. I was back in the game and as I met Saba, Auric and Alexis in quick succession I declared war to try and slow their progress.

All jungle meant no metals, no incense and lots of sugar and bananas. I've been on the back foot since turn one. Only once I built Saverous did I become even slightly competitive. Still, the set up of the map and the battles in choke points make for a fantastic alternative to the standard maps.

Sorry no screenies, I'm at work.

Long story short, I love this script and will play it again and again. Keep up the good work.

I got another one AFTER the game finished loading (The "Start of Civilization splash screen was up). I was Malakim, and it sounded like it was unable to find any desert, and since it REALLY wanted to put me on desert it bugged.

If you see that again, can you send me the PythonDbg.log file? I need to capture one of those instances, and the debug file should report the random seed used to start the map.

Hey Cephalo
All jungle meant no metals, no incense and lots of sugar and bananas. I've been on the back foot since turn one. Only once I built Saverous did I become even slightly competitive. Still, the set up of the map and the battles in choke points make for a fantastic alternative to the standard maps.


All jungle ouch!! Hopefully that doesn't happen too often. I should make the plot normalizer get rid of some jungle and also forest. The default procedure goes overboard on jungle removal in my opinion, and doesn't remove forest.

Where would the PythonDbg.log save at? Just did a search of my entire Civ 4 directory and nothing showed up. Pretty sure that was the last python exception I had, so it may still be on the computer somewhere.

Where would the PythonDbg.log save at? Just did a search of my entire Civ 4 directory and nothing showed up. Pretty sure that was the last python exception I had, so it may still be on the computer somewhere.

Actually it won't save it unless you have logs turned on in your ini file, so you might not have it. It shows up in your MyDocuments/games/bts/logs folder and depending on another option in the ini file, it usually will overwrite the logs each time you start up Civ.

Hi,

This makes nice looking maps. However, starting locations are quite unbalanced.
I made two tries as Doviello. My first try had me start in tundra hills. Some forest, deers, furs nearby. Unusable to build a city. I would have had to move quite a bit to reach the river where there was a few prairies. I know the settler's got a lot of movement points, but it was still like crap-land.
A second start gave me more prairies to start with, so it was/is much more enjoyable (not waiting forever to get a settler because you can reach size 2 before building it).
I am not far into the game, didn't open the World Builder or look at the py code, but it looks like I'm going to be blocked early by neighbours. For a peaceful nation like the Doviello, it's really a pity :D

Hi,

This makes nice looking maps. However, starting locations are quite unbalanced.
I made two tries as Doviello. My first try had me start in tundra hills. Some forest, deers, furs nearby. Unusable to build a city. I would have had to move quite a bit to reach the river where there was a few prairies. I know the settler's got a lot of movement points, but it was still like crap-land.
A second start gave me more prairies to start with, so it was/is much more enjoyable (not waiting forever to get a settler because you can reach size 2 before building it).
I am not far into the game, didn't open the World Builder or look at the py code, but it looks like I'm going to be blocked early by neighbours. For a peaceful nation like the Doviello, it's really a pity :D

Ah, but that's the problem with Doviello. I worked very hard to make them start in the tundra. :lol: That's the FFH universe's fault! It will be better when they actually benefit from their natural habitat. You're objective as Doviello is come screaming out of the hills early to cause trouble. :lol: Fiction over function!

The civ preferences are actually tunable in the script if you want.

I think Barbarian World either doesn't work or spawns a bunch of cities in one region.

After I download this, where do I unzip to? It won't let me unzip into public maps.

After I download this, where do I unzip to? It won't let me unzip into public maps.

public maps should be fine. What won't let you unzip it there?

I am unzipping to
C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\PublicMaps
and the problem is:
C:/users/owner/appdata/local/microsoft/windows/temorary internet files//low/content.IE5/JQF39BOP/Creation1.zip: Cannot create creation.py
Access is denied

Darn, I did not save one of my two most recent games generated with the new script. I started as Doviello in one and had, literally, a starting area consisting solely of peaks and hills with some furs and deer. I actually made a good play out of that one, wiped out the Luchuirp, and then found that I was completely boxed in.

My second game was as the Ljosalfar. I had an entire snaky continent to myself with only scattered forests and jungle (though the biggest concentration of forests on the island is what you see below, so it did choose the most appropriate spot for me). This one I do have a screenshot of my starting location thanks to the Autosave:

I am unzipping to
C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\PublicMaps
and the problem is:
C:/users/owner/appdata/local/microsoft/windows/temorary internet files//low/content.IE5/JQF39BOP/Creation1.zip: Cannot create creation.py
Access is denied The file is called Creation.zip, I don't know how Creation1.zip got in there. From windows explorer, open Creation.zip, copy Creation.py, and paste it in your PublicMaps folder. Actually, save Creation.zip in your PublicMaps folder first, then open it.

Darn, I did not save one of my two most recent games generated with the new script. I started as Doviello in one and had, literally, a starting area consisting solely of peaks and hills with some furs and deer. I actually made a good play out of that one, wiped out the Luchuirp, and then found that I was completely boxed in.

My second game was as the Ljosalfar. I had an entire snaky continent to myself with only scattered forests and jungle (though the biggest concentration of forests on the island is what you see below, so it did choose the most appropriate spot for me). This one I do have a screenshot of my starting location thanks to the Autosave:

Hmmm.. That screenshot doesn't look like Creation.py. It doesn't make little islands like that or continents. See the screenshots on the first post.

The file is called Creation.zip, I don't know how Creation1.zip got in there. From windows explorer, open Creation.zip, copy Creation.py, and paste it in your PublicMaps folder. Actually, save Creation.zip in your PublicMaps folder first, then open it.

Followed your instructions, started up civ, and choose "custum scenario," but "creation" wasn't on the list of choises. Should it be?

Followed your instructions, started up civ, and choose "custum scenario," but "creation" wasn't on the list of choises. Should it be?

No, this is a map script not a scenario. You should be able to choose it when you start a normal game. That said, this map script was designed to be used with the FFH2 mod. So you might want to download that if you haven't.

If you just want to play a normal Civ game, you might want to choose a different map script.

I like the script as it does proved some really interesting worlds that seam realisitic in distribution, however is there still an issue with having civs near their preffered land type?

I ask because I started one game as the Calabim who prefer desert and they wound up in the middle of a forested valley, when there was a decent desert area on the way opposite side of the map which had no civs near it.

Why would Calabim prefer desert? Only Malakim prefer that terrain.

I have FFh. So, enter civ/ffh, start custom game, it's in the map scprits with pangea, archipelego, etal?

That is correct.

Bingo! Eureka! Hand me a towel! Found it. Thanks everyone.

Why would Calabim prefer desert? Only Malakim prefer that terrain.

Floodplains have lots of food for the food to eat and grow plump on.:lol:

I like the script as it does proved some really interesting worlds that seam realisitic in distribution, however is there still an issue with having civs near their preffered land type?

I ask because I started one game as the Calabim who prefer desert and they wound up in the middle of a forested valley, when there was a decent desert area on the way opposite side of the map which had no civs near it.

Calabim are currently set to use the default preferences. Do they have a preference?

Crap, wrong game. I guess it did not save that other game. I really wish it had saved the Doviello one, though.

Crap, wrong game. I guess it did not save that other game. I really wish it had saved the Doviello one, though.

When you say blocked in, you mean you did have access to the ocean right? There should be no maps that are actually blocked in. Doviello are programmed to start way up in the mountain tops, since on this map that's where the tundra is.

Calabim do not have any RP land preference, so they are fine as default.

New version 1.03 is up. All I did was clear forest and jungle in a 1 tile radius around start plots. That should help a little for those civs starting in forest, but this will make those plains hills starts(Dwarves) more relatively weaker than they were already. Also, the civ preferences allow the forest starts to be allowed so I set the elf starts to not clear them.

Reminds me of when I used to make maps for warcraft 2! Nice work! :D

Why would Calabim prefer desert? Only Malakim prefer that terrain.

My mistake, I think I picked the wrong civ in my game. I meant to pick Malakim.

This works really well so far cephalo. It takes a little getting used to with all of the mountain ranges, but they serve a purpose. And I forgot to add additional civs so it's slow going meeting people. :)

This works really well so far cephalo. It takes a little getting used to with all of the mountain ranges, but they serve a purpose. And I forgot to add additional civs so it's slow going meeting people. :)

Make sure you get the latest version, as I've shrunk the map a couple of times by now. The last game I played seemed like a good size, with barbarian cities taking up a bit less than a normal civ at the end of the expansion phase. That seems about right to me.

I forgot to choose barb cities. :(

Can you make the script to have the option to make larger maps that support 33players+ 2 spots left for the extras?

Can you make the script to have the option to make larger maps that support 33players+ 2 spots left for the extras?

I know that alot of people like to play with alot of Civs, so I made the 'Huge' mapsize proportionally larger than the others so you can pack in 18 without too much trouble. If that's not big enough, you can go to the getGridSize function and set them to any size your computer can handle.

Sweet. Time for some huge worlds.

cephalo,

Like the addition to clear an area around the starting location.

What do you think of also adding a little more tile diversity.
Currently, there are whole areas that is all plains or all grasslands.
This is good, and I like it, give you a real feel for the different locations, but it really cripples a starting city.

Any way to make 2 or 3 tiles in the city radius the opposite tile.
If all plains, then make two or three grass and if all grass make some plains?

Keep up the good work!

Any way to make 2 or 3 tiles in the city radius the opposite tile.
If all plains, then make two or three grass and if all grass make some plains?


It's very hard to do that in a subtle way. I don't want to be able to detect a BFC before the city is even placed. I would rather have the player suffer than make my map look bad. :lol: Also, this mod has a few in-game options to deal with such a scenario. Usually if you start in a plains area, you should have some sheep or some fish to get you to the agriculture civic, at that point you get 3 food on a plains farm which is plenty. You will have to find some grass soon to have a robust economy, but it's very workable to start in plains.

Unless you play dwarves or Hippus, you really should not be stuck in the plains very often. If so, it's probably because you like to play with lot's of civs and there's not enough green to go around. In that situation you might play around with the map variables to make a little more green. There are enough hills on this map that even if you are on all green, it is almost certain that you will have a couple of hills, and even if not, you can just use the native forest to get some production.

I don't use the terrain normalization functions on any of my maps because I feel that is too brute force and artificial looking.

I actually like that your script places terrain in the more realistic and separated way.

For all of the things I really like about this script I simply can't get used to being so surrounded by mountains. Sometimes there's only one way to explore and it almost feels like I'm playing a scenario. :( I understand isolation, but can you create a separate script with less mountains or less isolation?

For all of the things I really like about this script I simply can't get used to being so surrounded by mountains. Sometimes there's only one way to explore and it almost feels like I'm playing a scenario. :( I understand isolation, but can you create a separate script with less mountains or less isolation?

Maybe I can make a map option that randomly erodes peaks so that more paths open up. Personally, I think it's fun to have a little backyard sanctuary, or to send troops into a wild valley and clear the barbarians before the settlers arrive. I'm still not sure how much the AI is liking it though, :lol: I have not yet seen an AI settle in a different valley system on the same continent when you can only get there in boats.


it almost feels like I'm playing a scenario.

Not bad for a random map eh? :goodjob:

That would work. I don't mind lots of chokepoints. :D

Also, so many peaks does make for some useless tiles when founding cities.

And your generator is indeed perfect for making scenarios. People should use it for that certainly!

Awesome map script, my friends and I are absolutely loving it.

One important thing to note for multiplayer, however: The Python randomizer does not seem to sync properly. Those who are getting OOS errors as soon as the game starts need to go into the script and change the first line,

UsePythonRand = True

to read

UsePythonRand = False

That should fix the turn-1 OOS errors. Might want to note this in the first post, actually, since I'm pretty sure that multiplayer use of this script is impossible without this change.

Awesome map script, my friends and I are absolutely loving it.

One important thing to note for multiplayer, however: The Python randomizer does not seem to sync properly. Those who are getting OOS errors as soon as the game starts need to go into the script and change the first line,

UsePythonRand = True

to read

UsePythonRand = False

That should fix the turn-1 OOS errors. Might want to note this in the first post, actually, since I'm pretty sure that multiplayer use of this script is impossible without this change.

The map is supposed to detect a network game and turn off python rands, but I think I found a bug in my logic. I'll go ahead and fix that so nobody has to worry about it.

1.04 is now published.

It should now properly detect network games and avoid OOS errors.

I added a tuning variable(SoftenPeakPercent) to diminish the number of peaks so that fewer peaks can be used, BUT I set the variable with a default of zero because through testing I discovered that the peaks not only create the strategic chokepoints that I like so much, but they are also crucial in selling the illusion that the different valleys have different climates for a reason. When valleys with different climates touch each other without massive peaks to separate them, it really looks bad in my opinion. In any case, you now can decide for yourself whether there should be all these massive peaks everywhere.

Thanks cephalo!

Peaks are good.
We can't have enough map scripts flooding peaks everywhere.
These valleys are great as they are. If only the Armageddon counter didn't decide to change your nice terrain into deserts...

Stupid question...

Where does this script go?
I have searched but can't find one that matches this name to overwrite.

Stupid question...

Where does this script go?
I have searched but can't find one that matches this name to overwrite.

Ooh I don't think you have to overwrite anything, just put it in your PublicMaps folder. I suppose I should put some instructions on the first post

Is there anything you can do with the script to make it ensure that your starting units are all able to reach each other? Had a game last night where my warrior & Settler were seperated by a ridge of mountains and some ocean from my Scout. Turned out after some exploration that my scout was trapped in a small cove of his own (well, eventually he found a spider and died, and later Acheron occupied the area...).

Also, how hard would it be to get a map which replaced the mountains with water to make tons of small tracts of ocean, but all broken up by small land bridges which would connect the water should a city be placed just right.... Could make it far more interesting for the Lanun in such a scenario, while retaining the large quantity of choke-points.

Is there anything you can do with the script to make it ensure that your starting units are all able to reach each other? Had a game last night where my warrior & Settler were seperated by a ridge of mountains and some ocean from my Scout. Turned out after some exploration that my scout was trapped in a small cove of his own (well, eventually he found a spider and died, and later Acheron occupied the area...).

I think there is an option to start all of the human players units on the same tile like the AI starts. Other than that, I don't think the map script can actually control where the individual units are placed.

Also, how hard would it be to get a map which replaced the mountains with water to make tons of small tracts of ocean, but all broken up by small land bridges which would connect the water should a city be placed just right.... Could make it far more interesting for the Lanun in such a scenario, while retaining the large quantity of choke-points.

This would be pretty easy to do, but how would it look? Such a configuration doesn't really have a well known analog in nature. It's easy to imagine valleys surrounded by strips of mountains, since that's how we commonly see mountain ranges, but landmasses surrounded by strips of water? In my mind, it may take away from the immersion factor. In a gameplay sense, you can have fun with maps that look like chessboards, etc. that provide certain strategic challenges. In a fictional sense however, you are then moving away from a plausible story and into the realm of puzzle games. That's fine, but not really my intent with this map. The chokepoints are fun, but I think it's even more important to maintain a sense of plausability.

If you want to try it, I think it may be possible to alter just a few lines of code in the PlotMap class and instead of placing initial peaks, you'll place water.

I'll give it a shot, it can be my initiation into mapscripting :) QQ though, will it still place resources like Fish & Clams properly? And what will there be a problem with your code to flood peaks into an area not connected to the ocean (pretty sure there won't be)?

I'll give it a shot, it can be my initiation into mapscripting :) QQ though, will it still place resources like Fish & Clams properly? And what will there be a problem with your code to flood peaks into an area not connected to the ocean (pretty sure there won't be)?

It should be very simple and straightforward. If the water area is very small, it will just be a freshwater lake.

OOSing like crazy with 1 other human player using this, and patch H.
=/

OOSing like crazy with 1 other human player using this, and patch H.
=/

If the map is the cause of OOS, it should happen on turn one. I had a bug in the first version, but I thought I had fixed that.... If not, you can edit the script to turn off the Python random numbers. That should eliminate the only possible cause of OOS from the map.

Edit: Oh yeah, make sure you are both using the same version!

changing the x and y wraps to true makes the map script pretty neat.. you still get all the valleys but the world is surrounded by water

Actually that'd be kinda nice, cause then you can launch surprise invasions in a few more locations :)

I tested this map. Seems that the creating gods were quite lazy... or then Kilmorph was asleep...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/116386/flatlands.jpg

Wierd, no Python exceptions at all while loading? Of course, if it bugged out in Python you should have wound up with pure plains, no rivers at all...

I tested this map. Seems that the creating gods were quite lazy... or then Kilmorph was asleep...


That is a map crash. If it happens repeatedly, it's because you have an old map script called 'random.py' in your public maps folder that has the same name as an important Python module. Rename that map script if you have it.

Edit: Why are there fully developed farms and citys on the screenshot? I hope you didn't get too far into the game before noticing! :lol:

changing the x and y wraps to true makes the map script pretty neat.. you still get all the valleys but the world is surrounded by water I'm actually amazed that works at all... :lol: In the beginning, I wanted to have the option to wrap, but I abandoned it early on.

It does wind up being pretty cool. I guess the function you have at the bottom for "future wrap possibilities" works nicely :)


Now if only I could figure out what to change to put it back to being maximum size :) I love me some big maps.

Now if only I could figure out what to change to put it back to being maximum size :) I love me some big maps.

The sizes of the maps can be set arbitrarily in the getGridSize function. However, FFH generates a huge number of barbarians, and also a civs economy will only support so much expansion. The origional size was so big that there was almost no reason to go to war, as there was always barbarian lands to expand into until the end game.

Good point, I'd have to lower inflation probably for it to be worthwhile...

If the map is the cause of OOS, it should happen on turn one. I had a bug in the first version, but I thought I had fixed that.... If not, you can edit the script to turn off the Python random numbers. That should eliminate the only possible cause of OOS from the map.

Edit: Oh yeah, make sure you are both using the same version!

How do I make this edit and what would the side effects of the edit be?

It's definitely the map, we're not OOSing on other types...

I tested this map. Seems that the creating gods were quite lazy... or then Kilmorph was asleep...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/116386/flatlands.jpg

I got a map like that, but instead it turned out to be nearly all Desert coast to coast with no mountain ridges at all. I had a wierd sort of egypt economy going on the single river cutting across it from the center to the eastern sea..until we OOSed again and gave up hehe.

How do I make this edit and what would the side effects of the edit be?

It's definitely the map, we're not OOSing on other types...

Set this variable to False. It's toward the beginning in the script.

UsePythonRandom = False

Make sure also that you make the same edit to all players you are playing with. Also, let me know if this clears up the issue. I tried to detect a network game and set this behavior automatically, but it's possible that the FFH dll does not work the same way as vanilla BtS in this aspect.

I'd test it myself but I have no friends for MP. :cry:

The reason why this variable is important is because Civ does not send the whole map over the network, it tries to set the random seed value the same on each client and generate the same map independantly. So any difference between the two map scripts will break it.

The reason I use the Python rands in the first place, is that it makes slightly more organic looking maps. With the mapRand rands, you'll generally see more anomalous features and straight lines. The difference is very subtle however. You can clearly see a difference in the general feel of the map, but I couldn't say that I could look at a map and tell which RNG it used.

I would like to know if this clears up the issue, because there might be something wrong with my network game detection logic. Make sure you are using the very latest version! 1.04 as of this writing.

I got a map like that, but instead it turned out to be nearly all Desert coast to coast with no mountain ridges at all. I had a wierd sort of egypt economy going on the single river cutting across it from the center to the eastern sea..until we OOSed again and gave up hehe.

If you aren't OOS on turn one, it really can't be the map, unless there are certain combinations of terrain/plot types that FFH can't handle. Once the map script is done it's done, and everyone either has a map or they don't.

Also, before you get too far into a game, try to look for features like in the screenshot to make sure your map isn't completely broken. That's not a fun thing to discover 1 hour into the game! :lol: There's still a couple of bugs I haven't tracked down yet, sorry!

I enjoying it now
I playing 33 players huge map (yeah lol)
no tech trading/brokering, living world.

Alliances:

Lawbringers
(Bannor x 2 + Malakim)

Protectors
(Elohim x 2 + Good elves)

Dwarven
(Khazad x 2 + G.Gym)

Metropolists/Liberalists/New Vision
(Grigori , Kuriotate + Beryy Bawl) lol

Nature's Revolt
(Hannah the Irin + Neutral Elves x 2)

Persuers of Knowledge / Kylorin
(Amurites x 2 + Sidar (me, Immortal))

Neutral Fee-loving Raiders
(Falamar + Hippus x 2)

Mulkarn followers
(Doviello x2 + Illians)

Burn, Raze, Stomp
(Os-Gabella + Clan x 2)

Dark Union
(Tebryn + Alexis + Faeryl)

Decadance
(Balseraphs x 2 + Flauros)

Game is very interesting, map fits this setup very well.

@ Slynn
That's an awesome game ;)

Cephalo, I have to suggestions for your map.

The more important one- I would consider island chains in the ocean for the Lanun to start on. I find large expanses of water boring, and the Lanun, speacalising in naval combat need a boost. Since the majority of the map and wars are land wars, the Lanun kind of cuk. Island strongholds would allow them to raid other civs with impunity, and let them have large cities.

The other one- This is a stupid idea, but have you considered some vallies starting as hell terrain. Then when Hyborem comes, and hells starts to spread, it is much more terrible. Also, life I would be much more useful.

Slynn's lineup sounds nice, but I really think that Tebryn and Os-Gabella should switch places.

The more important one- I would consider island chains in the ocean for the Lanun to start on. I find large expanses of water boring, and the Lanun, speacalising in naval combat need a boost. Since the majority of the map and wars are land wars, the Lanun kind of cuk. Island strongholds would allow them to raid other civs with impunity, and let them have large cities.


Originally I intended to do something like this with the Lanun in mind, but I left it out for now because I do not believe that the default bonus placer would handle it in a nice way, and I would have to rewrite the bonus placement so that the island chain was a nicer place to call home. It should definately be done, but there will be some work involved.


The other one- This is a stupid idea, but have you considered some vallies starting as hell terrain. Then when Hyborem comes, and hells starts to spread, it is much more terrible. Also, life I would be much more useful.
Well... The reason for hell in the world is Hyborems arrival as I understand it, so having it there from the beginning seems wrong to me. I think the reason why hell seems a bit weak is that the infernal mechanics are so different from a normal civ, that the AI really struggles with the late start and no real growth and huuuge research times. Hyborem in the hands of the AI is really more comical than scary. He always seems stuck in the darndest places. Every game the thought goes through my head, "Poor Hyborem." :lol:

Wierd, no Python exceptions at all while loading? Of course, if it bugged out in Python you should have wound up with pure plains, no rivers at all...

It gave about as many error boxes as Windows 95 after 5 minutes :p

That is a map crash. If it happens repeatedly, it's because you have an old map script called 'random.py' in your public maps folder that has the same name as an important Python module. Rename that map script if you have it.

Edit: Why are there fully developed farms and citys on the screenshot? I hope you didn't get too far into the game before noticing! :lol:

So I rename 'random.py' and it should work? (I can't find said 'random.py', where exactly is it?)

I noticed it on turn 1, but you can't be too picky about your maps when 9/10 of your games CtD before beginning...

It turned out to be a great game, I played the Svartalfar with noble 1 city challenge, and razed half of the world with Council, Alazkan (w/ blitz and 4 movement!) and nyxkins. (the empty areas to the right used to be Sheaim and Ljosalfar)

So I rename 'random.py' and it should work? (I can't find said 'random.py', where exactly is it?)

I noticed it on turn 1, but you can't be too picky about your maps when 9/10 of your games CtD before beginning...


If you can't find random.py in your PublicMaps folder, then don't worry about it. You're running windows 95? Ouch. You're not seeing the real game though unless you get a proper map. Make sure you see some peaks before you really start playing.

He just meant "It gave a LOT of error messages"

Are you sure all players need to have the mapscript if you use it in MP? I just tried to an MP game and I am pretty sure some of them most certainly did not have your script, but it just transferred the map data from my computer to theirs before the game started up.

He just meant "It gave a LOT of error messages"

Are you sure all players need to have the mapscript if you use it in MP? I just tried to an MP game and I am pretty sure some of them most certainly did not have your script, but it just transferred the map data from my computer to theirs before the game started up.

No, actually I'm not sure. I do know that if you use Python randoms in the script for MP, you get OOS right away. I suppose there are other reasons why that might be. I think I just assumed from that info that the map was generated concurrently.

This is a really nice script. Some of the maps I've made with it remind me of RPGs and MMORPGs very much. Nice work!

2 stories on this awesome map script.

1- I was playing an OCC, and enterd worldbuilder to cheat a little, when I saw two vallies filled with barbaians. One was a desert where Acheron's city was dominating the entire area with culture. The Second was a jungle area with 7 barbaian cities (Not captured from players) I wasn't playing Barbarian World, it was an awesme game.

2- I used the mapscript in Vanilla, and it had awesome results. The game was alot of fun.

How do you tune the SoftenPeakPercent variable - I can't see it in game setup. Is it in an xml or something similar?

Cheers and thanks for an über map-script :)

Sandro

Never mind - found it.

What is the specific effect of it? I like choke-points and your climate seperation argument is sound, but I don't like that some civilizations are completely isolated by peaks. What value would you recommend for a map with a similar look, but slightly less isolated areas - 0.25? (assuming it is a number from 0.0 to 1.0 and not 0.0 to 100.0)

Never mind - found it.

What is the specific effect of it? I like choke-points and your climate seperation argument is sound, but I don't like that some civilizations are completely isolated by peaks. What value would you recommend for a map with a similar look, but slightly less isolated areas - 0.25? (assuming it is a number from 0.0 to 1.0 and not 0.0 to 100.0)

I didn't like it so I didn't play with it much. But the number should be between 1.0 and 0.0. I should have wrote the range in my comments.

1- I was playing an OCC, and enterd worldbuilder to cheat a little, when I saw two vallies filled with barbaians. One was a desert where Acheron's city was dominating the entire area with culture. The Second was a jungle area with 7 barbaian cities (Not captured from players) I wasn't playing Barbarian World, it was an awesme game.

I've had something similar happen once. South of my starting position was a large valley, accessible through a one tile wide passage. Before I had time to settle the valley, Acheron spawned in it. I just built a fort at the entrance, and placed an swordsman there to hold it. Then Hyborem spawned in the valley! The fort had become the entrance to hell! I had to send an expedition of intrepid heroes into hell to fight off the burning legions and save our lands. It was great!

cephalo, any idea why barbarian world works sometimes, but doesn't others? I've played around with a variety of other settings (raging barbarians, wildlands, etc), but i can't seem to consistently get barbarians starting with cities.

cephalo, any idea why barbarian world works sometimes, but doesn't others? I've played around with a variety of other settings (raging barbarians, wildlands, etc), but i can't seem to consistently get barbarians starting with cities.

I don't know. I'm not sure I've played with that option. In the games I've played, barbs do tend to build cities everywhere that's not settled fairly quickly though.

Very, very weird. Every single time I use this script, I get almost completely grassland with some forest.

I am using huge and rocky.

Very, very weird. Every single time I use this script, I get almost completely grassland with some forest.

I am using huge and rocky.

That is what a map crash looks like. Check in your PublicMaps folder for a map script file called random.py. This name conflicts with the random.py that is part of the Python system, so it needs to be renamed. Rename the file, then let me know if that works or not.

This issue comes up from time to time on my maps.

Edit: 'Rocky' is not actually an option for the map script ;)

That is what a map crash looks like. Check in your PublicMaps folder for a map script file called random.py. This name conflicts with the random.py that is part of the Python system, so it needs to be renamed. Rename the file, then let me know if that works or not.

This issue comes up from time to time on my maps.

Edit: 'Rocky' is not actually an option for the map script ;)
I see no random.py although a search finds random.pyc in assets/python folder.

Not sure what you mean that rocky isn't an option -- it appears on the list:
http://www.bemont.net/rocky.jpg

I see no random.py although a search finds random.pyc in assets/python folder.

Not sure what you mean that rocky isn't an option -- it appears on the list:


Hmm.. in the vanilla game, those normal map choices should be greyed out.

So, you're still getting map crashes(all grassland) every time? Ok to figure out why the map is crashing do this: In your BtS\CivilizationIV.ini file, set HidePythonExceptions to '0'. That will cause a popup when the script crashes detailing the reason why it crashed. If you use alot of mods it's useful to leave it that way so you can report otherwise unseen bugs to the mod developers.

I closed the game, restarted the computer and edited the ini file. For whatever reason, the game now starts fine. Sea level and climate are properly grayed out, and the map looks to be fine. Go figure.

(Regarding the lack of barbarian cities)

I played another game with Creation and again had a problem with barbarian cities. The settings I used were: Raging Barbarians, Lock Modified, New Seed, Blessing, Living World, No Settlers. On my side of the map, there were three civs, including my own (on a large map). By turn 200 (marathon), there were no barbarian cities.

Perhaps my no settlers setting is what does it? I am trying to make it so that expansion requires taking over barbarian cities. But when I chose barbarian world, it does not always give barbarian cities. *shrugs*.

Perhaps my no settlers setting is what does it? I am trying to make it so that expansion requires taking over barbarian cities. But when I chose barbarian world, it does not always give barbarian cities. *shrugs*.

Ah that must be it. I guess no settlers means no settlers for anyone? I've never played that way. Does it work on other map scripts? (Pre-made maps will likely have barb cities already placed.)

No sattlers does mean that no civ can build settlers, but that should effect the Barbarians; they can never build settlers. They spawn cities in areas with fog of war, the same way they spawn units.

Of course it is possible that this option also causes this spawning to stop. I never play with no settlers unless I have the barbarian world option on too.

What exactly does the 'Barbarian World' option do? How is it different from 'Raging Barbarians' in FFH?

barbarian world is supposed to have the barbarians start off with cities upon map generation. i wonder if there is a way to tune this so that it spawns a higher number of cities. i have tested it with the creation.py script and it appears that (in a limited number of trials) the barbarian cities mostly stay on one continent or the other... and a couple times, there were none.

this evening, i'll test this and run a number of maps to see what happens.

Barbarian world ALWAYS spawns all the barbarian cities that it will spawn on a single continent.

My guess is that it might be selecting the small island, and since there is already another player there and it will not spawn too close to a player it winds up not having room for any cities? Could be the case maybe.

Also, it is set to create 1 barbarian city per non-barbarian civ in the game. It is annoying though that they are always on the same continent.

Barbarian world ALWAYS spawns all the barbarian cities that it will spawn on a single continent.

My guess is that it might be selecting the small island, and since there is already another player there and it will not spawn too close to a player it winds up not having room for any cities? Could be the case maybe.

possibly. but i respawned maps 20+ times... ugh. and the barbarian cities were placed all on the same continent - sometimes on the biggest... sometimes all squeezed into a smaller island. When the latter happened, i noticed that there appeared to be plenty of space between non-barbarian civs. in two instances, the large continent only had 3 civs, the smaller one had 4, and the island had all 7 barbarian cities.

possibly. but i respawned maps 20+ times... ugh. and the barbarian cities were placed all on the same continent - sometimes on the biggest... sometimes all squeezed into a smaller island. When the latter happened, i noticed that there appeared to be plenty of space between non-barbarian civs. in two instances, the large continent only had 3 civs, the smaller one had 4, and the island had all 7 barbarian cities.

Try turning that option off. I always find barbarian cities filling all the gaps between civs. It doesn't happen right away, but usually after I settle three or so cities, the rest is taking from barbs.

i ran another game without the 'no settlers' option. in the marathon game with raging barbarians and barbarian world it took until around turn 180 before a barbarian city was founded on the continent where i was located, despite the large amount of open space. this probably is not an issue with the map (though the starting off all on one continent is).

I'll test it next without barbarian world. i wonder if the existence of starting barbarian cities slows down the timeframe of the barbarians spawning new cities.

Starting all on one continent is not unique to the Creation Map. It happens that way on all map types I have tried. Just most of them tend to be large enough of continents that you don't completely notice it.

Yes, having Barb World start them with a few cities does limit appearance of new cities because they have a restriction on how many total cities they are allowed to have based on mapsize, gamespeed and/or number of players.

Yes, having Barb World start them with a few cities does limit appearance of new cities because they have a restriction on how many total cities they are allowed to have based on mapsize, gamespeed and/or number of players.

Hmm, that basically means that the Barbarian world setting is kinda useless. I never use it, and I get tons of barbarian cities on all continents whether I like it or not.

The main thing barbarian world does is make Acheron spawn on turn 14. :)

Also, if you play with Wildlands, there will be basically no barbarians in the world at all unless you use barbarian world.

hehe.. i'm learning quite a bit about the different settings. cephalo, sorry if this hijacked your thread a little.

anyway, i really like your script. I'm using it almost exclusively these days. :)

I tried copying the creation.py into my public maps file. Creation option comes up, but I get all grassland with the occasional forest and lake.

I tried copying the creation.py into my public maps file. Creation option comes up, but I get all grassland with the occasional forest and lake.

That's a map crash, and if it happens every time then first restart FFH, then look in your PublicMaps folder for a script called 'random.py'. If you have that in your PublicMaps folder, then rename it.

Well tried this the first time with Patch K and will probably be the last time unfortunately. While the map is freaking awesome and I love the look and that it started me in a sexy forest as faeryl there are absolutely no incense or reagents anywhere on the map.

So no priests this game I guess.

Either we both started in really unlucky locations and its all over hte place elsewhere or its due to turning on Blessings of Am and not having hte options to do balanced resources in the start settings. Either way that breaks the map for us ;/

-Disregard-- Some incense in the far north west. Probably some regents on the other continent.

Either way I think balanced needs to be added to this mod or something else changed cuz those resources are pretty damn important. My friend is amurites and can't even get archmages lol

Either way I think balanced needs to be added to this mod or something else changed cuz those resources are pretty damn important. My friend is amurites and can't even get archmages lol

I think this is a problem in general with all generated maps. This map currently uses the default bonus placement. The XML rules for those are 75% of the number of players, which is generally too low. I don't know what size map you are playing, but on a duel map there would be only one, and possibly none according to the xml rules. Obviously, on pre-made maps this problem doesn't exist.

That's a map crash, and if it happens every time then first restart FFH, then look in your PublicMaps folder for a script called 'random.py'. If you have that in your PublicMaps folder, then rename it.

I searched my documents\my games and program files\firaxis directories plus suboflders, and found no 'random.py'. Found a lot of random.pyc.

I searched my documents\my games and program files\firaxis directories plus suboflders, and found no 'random.py'. Found a lot of random.pyc.

Ok then, time to get out the stethoscope. In your BtS\CivilizationIV.ini file, set HidePythonExceptions to '0'. That will cause a popup when the script crashes detailing the reason why it crashed. If you use alot of mods it's useful to leave it that way so you can report otherwise unseen bugs to the mod developers.

I think this is a problem in general with all generated maps. This map currently uses the default bonus placement. The XML rules for those are 75% of the number of players, which is generally too low. I don't know what size map you are playing, but on a duel map there would be only one, and possibly none according to the xml rules. Obviously, on pre-made maps this problem doesn't exist.

We always do the largest map size with 2 humans and 12-16 AI.

When you say premade maps do you mean generating the map somewhere from the menu then loading it to play the game on?

We always do the largest map size with 2 humans and 12-16 AI.

When you say premade maps do you mean generating the map somewhere from the menu then loading it to play the game on?

No I mean maps that someone sat down with WB and created, like the Erebus maps.

On a huge map with 16 civs, you should have roughly 12 reagent bonuses and 12 incense bonuses. See if that's not the case. If you are really getting only 1 or 2 with that size map I'll have to investigate. I'm at work right now so I can't check it myself.

If you turn on cheat codes you can press ctrl-z to see the whole map.

A problem with incense and the creation script is that the script creates huge patch of pure grassland and prairie. Starting in pure prairie is a major pain, food is too scarce and cottages not really an option. Starting in grassland is very comfortable... until you realize that there is no incense in it, because incense only appears in prairies and desert. For that matter, deer and furs are relegated to the rare tundra bits, and so on...

This is made even worse in this script because of the valley-like nature of the map : the only access to incense will often involve sea travel of going through two other civs...

I really love this script, but in my opinion it would be even better if the terrain type was a little more varied, with smaller patches of grassland, prairie, tundra, desert, and so on...

I don't really have a problem with the resources. In the current game I am playing as the Sidar, with RoK, I have no gems. But of course, very few of my units make it past level 6 :)

With this map script, and xienwolf's "Animals Build Lairs" and "Dangerous Special Features" modules, or even without them, there are plenty of areas which become barbarian strongholds that likely contain the resources you need, so you don't even need to go to war with anyone to get them.

In some ways, the Sidar are way to easy to play. If you want a resource a neighbor has, create a city nearby, and overwhelm them with culture until the resource is yours :)

Or, create hidden nationality units with the CoE (or the shadow l2 summon), kill off all city defenders in a neighbor's city, then "delete" a werewolf next to the city (which makes it go barbarian) then capture the city from the werewolf in the next turn. Can do that with any crazed (or is it frenzied) unit.

My Sidar game is getting a bit boring. All I do is create HN units, farm neighbors for experience, shade them, repeat.

As far as I can tell that's the exact point of this script: to generate maps that have a realistic distribution of environments according to weather conditions. If you look at Earth (which has exactly that: weather determining the landscape) you won't find all resources in one spot but all over the world (famous examples are potatoes or corn). It encourages trade, imperialism and wars. ;)

And it isn't all that realistic for a single city to span Tundra, Grassland, Forest & Plains (though a few isolated chunks of Plains in the middle of grassland isn't unheard of. Nor a couple isolated desert or grassland in the midst of plains. But if we want to get technical, you can also have desert in tundra, since it is defined solely by annual precipitation, not by heat index like so many people associate it with).

"Desert" in Civ is quite clearly a hot desert, though; and "ice" is a cold desert.

cephalo - can your mapscript make sure all of the Unique Features are included in every map? I bugged Kael about this at one point, but it wasn't high priority.

cephalo - can your mapscript make sure all of the Unique Features are included in every map? I bugged Kael about this at one point, but it wasn't high priority.

Actually, it doesn't actually place them, it moves the ones that are already there. It may be possible, since I wouldn't need access to the XML(Not exposed to Python in this case) to place *all* of them. It would look rather silly on a duel sized map though... :lol: Do you really want all of them?

One thing that's nice about their rarity is that it makes each game have a slightly different atmosphere. I've played quite a few games by now and there are still a few I haven't seen yet. That's kinda cool.

I played a standard sized map on creation and it actually started me (as Sheim) in all hills with a 1x4square inlet of water (goin gto a small sea) with the only grasslands across the water (and still in city range (3 of them)). My warrior and scout started across the water, my settler started on the hills. There were no unforested/jungle/hills on my side of the water and it was impossible to get my warrior/scout over to my side due to the mountain blocking. Pretty funny actually.

I'll check on the number of incense/reagents in our game I bet it probably is close to 12 because there's a ton of incense all up in the north and a pretty big set of the map is blacked out so maybe regents over there.

Actually, it doesn't actually place them, it moves the ones that are already there. It may be possible, since I wouldn't need access to the XML(Not exposed to Python in this case) to place *all* of them. It would look rather silly on a duel sized map though... :lol: Do you really want all of them?

One thing that's nice about their rarity is that it makes each game have a slightly different atmosphere. I've played quite a few games by now and there are still a few I haven't seen yet. That's kinda cool.

What about 1/civ guaranteed and always within 3-5 tiles of where they start? I want to see more! ;)

That might not be fair if one player starts with the Mirror of Heaven and another starts with the Broken Sepulcher so close. Other than that, sound good.

Dear lord, if you program it to guarantee them near each player than I may be responsible for more deaths on Erebus than Hyborem with my dangerous versions :) I love it (New themesong for the loading screen should be the Jaws soundtrack with that module....)

Exactly. I'll be gunning for those capital cities!

As far as I can tell that's the exact point of this script: to generate maps that have a realistic distribution of environments according to weather conditions. If you look at Earth (which has exactly that: weather determining the landscape) you won't find all resources in one spot but all over the world (famous examples are potatoes or corn). It encourages trade, imperialism and wars. ;)

Fair enough for most resources : for food resources for instance, it does not really matter if you have rice, corn, wheat, cow, sheep or pigs. Any of them will do. But incense is needed to build priests (well, except the Veils ones), so if you don't get incense you won't get priests. And that takes away from one of the best part of FFH.

And on Earth, as far as I can tell, every civilization that ever existed managed to get some kind of priests, regardless of access to incense :)

You can also get priests with gems for ROK, no? Not sure about the other ones, but you can pretty much declare anything you want to be incense, that's just a gameplay problem civ has with resources. ;)

Played a few games with this script now and I like it!
Could you maybe include a few more options, for example for amount of landmasses, distance between them, number of islands, size of ocean, over all world temperature and humidity etc.? That would rock!

personally, the option i'd like to see is "amount of passages between valley's", just to increase the chance 2 area's are connected. It's a fun map type, but it's getting kinda annoying being forced into naval warfare every single game.

That is in the script, it is called "Soften peak percentage" though. You have to edit the Python to change it, it isn't a selectable option in the game menu while loading a new game.

I can't download for some reason. Did you remove the file?

There have been some server hiccups. Keep trying and welcome to the CFC.

I think the map sometimes generates no reagents.
Not every time, but sometimes. Maybe something to do with the climat needed for reagents?

I think the map sometimes generates no reagents.
Not every time, but sometimes. Maybe something to do with the climat needed for reagents?

When you say none, how many do you mean? What size map are you playing? This script uses the default bonus placement. See my comments above regarding the low amount of reagents.

Can't download it : error file not found

Can't download it : error file not found

cephalo will need to re-upload.

cephalo will need to re-upload.

Wow, I can't believe that happened. I'm at home right now with a massive sore throat, so I'm not in much condition to figure out where the last published versions are. They may be on a different computer.

I don't have the FfH one on this computer, but I'll attach it when I turn on the other one.

I attached the one which I was using, but I don't know if I was completely up to date with the latest. And I changed it to be Toroidal too.

I occasionally will generate a map that fails. I've attached the python log which should help track down the errors.

Also have attached the version that I was using, which I'm pretty sure was 1.4.

I occasionally will generate a map that fails. I've attached the python log which should help track down the errors.

Also have attached the version that I was using, which I'm pretty sure was 1.4.

Yeah, I think I know what causes that. Regions stop growing when they hit the map edge, and I think it is possible that a region stops growing before it has touched any other region, and if the surrounding regions also have stopped growing for the same reason, then it never comes in contact with another region to decide where it's river system will empty into.

Can I make a request for slightly less ocean in the world? Or at least, differently generated ocean. I find the most fun games are the ones where everyone has land routes to eachother, with ocean providing either access to barbarian islands, or alternate routes around the world.

However, the map frequently (read: two out of three times) generates worlds that consist of "enclosed blocks", that is lone civs or groups of civs that have no land routes to any other civ. This is partly because the valleys don't always have enough ways in and out (There needs to be a much higher chance of a valley having an opening into each adjacent valley), but mostly because the oceans generally separate the world into two or three totally separate islands.

Anyway, that's just my two cents, I love this map script.

I'd also like to request that there be an in-game switch or something along those lines to alter the generation of oceans. Or better details on what to change in the .PY file to make less water.

Until then, I'll share that you can change the variable WaterRegionsPerPlot in the "#Map Constants..." area to 0. I believe it will make just a lake in the center. I also changed my file so there are no deserts/jungles.

GREAT SCRIPT
Been having fun messing with the script file even though I'm just starting to learn Python.

That is in the script, it is called "Soften peak percentage" though. You have to edit the Python to change it, it isn't a selectable option in the game menu while loading a new game.

What is the range for Soften Peak Percentage? I'd bet either 0-1 (quite natural) or 0-100 (said it's a percentage).
I wanted every 20th-25th peak softened, but setting the value to 5 gave me ice bordering regions insted of peaks, and 0.04 seems not to give any result at all (no peaks seem to be flattened).

Any help welcome.

According to an early post by Ceph it is range from 0.0 to 1.0. But he says he hasn't played with it much, so it could be a bit wonky I suppose.

Try .2 and see what happens. I know someone got it to work at least once.

A hint to help you look for flattened peaks: it worked for me (with a value of 0.1) and the flattened peaks are always turned to desert hills (sometimes with incense, too ;) ).
But I wish they would turn into a regionally fitting hill - and that the flatting would happen more in the map itself, but not on the peak-border on the side of the map.

According to an early post by Ceph it is range from 0.0 to 1.0. But he says he hasn't played with it much, so it could be a bit wonky I suppose.

Try .2 and see what happens. I know someone got it to work at least once.

Actually I tried 0.1 and it seems to work ok. Some passages are created, but not too many.

Thx.

What's the best way to alter creation of water tiles?

I altered the Numwaterregionsperplot and ended up getting only 1 small lake in the center.. which works better than the huge ocean/water areas I was getting... but not enough water now. Go figure.

What's the best way to alter creation of water tiles?

I altered the Numwaterregionsperplot and ended up getting only 1 small lake in the center.. which works better than the huge ocean/water areas I was getting... but not enough water now. Go figure.

You should be able to set the value to get a little more water. It's a very small floating point value that determines how many of the valleys actually become water. So it's numberofplots * numwaterregionsperplot = how many water regions.

I seem to be unable to use the blessing of amatheon option with this map, because then I never see reagents...

I seem to be unable to use the blessing of amatheon option with this map, because then I never see reagents...

Hopefully this weekend I can thoroughly research the problem with reagents. From what I have been hearing it suffers greatly from crowding.

Hello Cephalo

Best maps for fantasy world by far!

Is it possible to edit script to add a few lakes?

Cheers

I seem to be unable to use the blessing of amatheon option with this map, because then I never see reagents...

Ok, to fix this problem properly, see this thread.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267577

Hello Cephalo

Best maps for fantasy world by far!

Is it possible to edit script to add a few lakes?

Cheers

I probably could add lakes but it wouldn't be a simple thing to do. Lakes tend to interefere somewhat with the river system. I may do that for the next version if I can come up with some rules that look good on the map.

I think it might actually be cool to have valleys of water that are sorrounded by land. then if there was a really long path between the valleys arround it, it would make for very interesting naval battles.

Hey. I just discovered this map, and playing with it a few times, have the following thoughts.

First, it's amazing. As a scenario map generator it'd be incredible. However, I have one major and one really minor quibble.

Big: Doesn't balance at all with FFH's rules. Partly due to preferenced start locations - Malakim in the desert are screwed. Sure, you might be a bit better on desert than anyone else, but that doesn't affect building your cities. They have been bottom-feeders in every game. Also, the dwarves in the hills. Yes, they're nice. But when the valleys have so much hills, you don't have the food to expand. And last, the way terrain interfaces with Blight. Any race in Grassland is going to be totally unaffected, since Blight only hurts plains. Any race in plains is utterly crushed.

Minor: Your mountains seem to be set as Desert Mountains. Since mountains seem to be a feature, add hell terrain and they become Burning Sands mountains... and all that fire is a bit hard on most computers. Can you make them plains mountains? Or grassland even, but plains mountains turning partly desert in blight might make some neat fire shows without destroying the framerate.

I don't really have solutions to the balance concern: I'm a player, not a mapmaker. But I hope something can be done.

^ Rather than plains or grassland mountains, I find snow maountains the best.

1) They will not terraform at anytime (Unless there are druids)

2) They are nice looking, as the white at the base of the mountain matches the snow on the snow and general whitness on the mountain.

Hey. I just discovered this map, and playing with it a few times, have the following thoughts.

First, it's amazing. As a scenario map generator it'd be incredible. However, I have one major and one really minor quibble.

Big: Doesn't balance at all with FFH's rules. Partly due to preferenced start locations - Malakim in the desert are screwed. Sure, you might be a bit better on desert than anyone else, but that doesn't affect building your cities. They have been bottom-feeders in every game. Also, the dwarves in the hills. Yes, they're nice. But when the valleys have so much hills, you don't have the food to expand. And last, the way terrain interfaces with Blight. Any race in Grassland is going to be totally unaffected, since Blight only hurts plains. Any race in plains is utterly crushed.

My thoughts on this topic are 'fiction over function'. :lol: However, if you would rather change the starting preferences for any of the civs, it's all pretty well commented in the map script so you shouldn't have any trouble figuring it out. There are also some other tuning variables if you feel there's too many plains etc.

Minor: Your mountains seem to be set as Desert Mountains. Since mountains seem to be a feature, add hell terrain and they become Burning Sands mountains... and all that fire is a bit hard on most computers. Can you make them plains mountains? Or grassland even, but plains mountains turning partly desert in blight might make some neat fire shows without destroying the framerate.

I hadn't noticed this, those burning sands really do eat up your framerate so I'll look into it.

Thanks for the compliments!

The Blight issue identified by Grunthex above nailed me last night BIG time. I honestly didn't know that's how Blight worked, but it is a doozy on this map. I was the Luichirp in a long dry sheltered valley, making epic war on an unholy alliance of Evil lowlanders when the AC hit 40 and BAM my entire civilization is crushed. Everything turns to desert, my populations recede to 1, and the Calabim, Svartalfar, and Balseraph pour through my weakened defenses.

.......actually, it was pretty darn cool. Real End of Days feel. Just too bad that it irrevocably ended an otherwise enjoyable game.

The Blight issue identified by Grunthex above nailed me last night BIG time. I honestly didn't know that's how Blight worked, but it is a doozy on this map. I was the Luichirp in a long dry sheltered valley, making epic war on an unholy alliance of Evil lowlanders when the AC hit 40 and BAM my entire civilization is crushed. Everything turns to desert, my populations recede to 1, and the Calabim, Svartalfar, and Balseraph pour through my weakened defenses.

.......actually, it was pretty darn cool. Real End of Days feel. Just too bad that it irrevocably ended an otherwise enjoyable game.

Don't forget the 'spring' spell you guys! That'll fix you up in a jiffy.

I might actually re-load the game to see if I can hold the gates long enough to rejuvenate my desert lands. Problem was I hadn't anticipated the complete death of my valley, and didn't have any mages on standby.

I might actually re-load the game to see if I can hold the gates long enough to rejuvenate my desert lands. Problem was I hadn't anticipated the complete death of my valley, and didn't have any mages on standby.

It's kinda strange, no matter what civ I play, I always consider water mana as a must have. Turning desert into plains is too powerful to be without even without considering blight.

^ Rather than plains or grassland mountains, I find snow maountains the best.

1) They will not terraform at anytime (Unless there are druids)

2) They are nice looking, as the white at the base of the mountain matches the snow on the snow and general whitness on the mountain.

Ok, I did some checking on this issue, and it appears that not all mountains are desert, but naturally blight can create quite a few more desert mountains than there would otherwise be.

I tried making all the peaks grassland terrain and also ice, but it looks really bad actually. I found that it's actually really important to have the peak terrain match the surrounding terrain.

I've noticed in all of my games with this map script that all "replaced" peaks were desert hills, regardless of the surrounding area. Quite a few incense resources appeared that way, too. ;)

But I'd also prefer plain hills replacing the peaks or even better matching terrain (just have it look at the adjacent plots and copy the first terrain type that's not a peak maybe?).

I've noticed in all of my games with this map script that all "replaced" peaks were desert hills, regardless of the surrounding area. Quite a few incense resources appeared that way, too. ;)

But I'd also prefer plain hills replacing the peaks or even better matching terrain (just have it look at the adjacent plots and copy the first terrain type that's not a peak maybe?).

Oh yeah, I forgot about the peaks-to-hills function. I'll have to get back to work on this.

I've noticed in all of my games with this map script that all "replaced" peaks were desert hills, regardless of the surrounding area. Quite a few incense resources appeared that way, too. ;)

But I'd also prefer plain hills replacing the peaks or even better matching terrain (just have it look at the adjacent plots and copy the first terrain type that's not a peak maybe?).

Ok, I have found that all the peak plots that are not actually in a proper valley, like the ones on the map edge, do have underlying desert. It just so happens that desert is actually a good nuetral looking terrain to place alongside anything else, so I hadn't noticed it earlier. To fix this, I will have to do some analysys of the surrounding terrain to make things look nice and also not be desert. Some mountains will become desert when blight hits but not nearly as many as there is now.

i just found your map script and tried it. It looks great, however there are some points i would like to change. So i spent i lot of time in the python, but since i am new to modifying civ files, it is not so easy for me.
So i have 3 Questions:

1) what does this mean:

HillChanceAtZero = .15
HillChanceAtOne = .90
PeakChanceAtZero = .0
PeakChanceAtOne = .20

I want a little less hills. Is this the position to modify this? Are the numbers percentage? And what does altitude mean? Do you mean latitude? altitude does not make sense (e.g. when setting max alt to deserts).

2)How can i have less forests? There are far too many tiles coverd by forest, often only the adjacent to the cities are unoccupied. Did not find an option :(

3)How can i improve the starting locations? This is my most important question. On nearly every map one or more civs start with only one or even without any good ressource. I want everyone have at least a good 1st city.


Thanks for all the work, your script really makes fun playing a fantasy game :).

i just found your map script and tried it. It looks great, however there are some points i would like to change. So i spent i lot of time in the python, but since i am new to modifying civ files, it is not so easy for me.
So i have 3 Questions:

1) what does this mean:

HillChanceAtZero = .15
HillChanceAtOne = .90
PeakChanceAtZero = .0
PeakChanceAtOne = .20

I want a little less hills. Is this the position to modify this? Are the numbers percentage? And what does altitude mean? Do you mean latitude? altitude does not make sense (e.g. when setting max alt to deserts).

2)How can i have less forests? There are far too many tiles coverd by forest, often only the adjacent to the cities are unoccupied. Did not find an option :(

3)How can i improve the starting locations? This is my most important question. On nearly every map one or more civs start with only one or even without any good ressource. I want everyone have at least a good 1st city.


Thanks for all the work, your script really makes fun playing a fantasy game :).

For example, HillChanceAtZAero is the chance that a hill will be placed when altitude is zero or the lowest possible altitude. HillChanceAtOne is the chance that that a hill will be placed at the highest possible altitude. The idea is that you get hilly-er as you go up in altitude.

I neglected to make the trees directly tunable, sorry! I always insist on using alot of trees on my maps and there are several reasons for this.

The first reason is that the most important goal for any game map is to provide a believable and immersive game setting. To that end, I think it's necessary for untamed lands to look untamed, and forests help convey that information. There are very few places on earth that get decent rainfall that are not naturally trees from one horizon to the other. Scotland being one of those few exceptions. Grassland without trees looks like a golf course in my opinion, rather more cultivated and civilized than wildlands ought to be. So, in short, the first reason I like alot of trees is because golf was invented in Scotland. :confused:

The second reason I like alot of trees is that in civ, cleared grassland is an order of magnitude more useful than plains. By putting forest in the way of most grassland, starting in plains is that much more feasable. In FFH you can get agriculture, start building farms right away and make a decent go of it even on all plains, though for economic reasons you will need to find grassland to expand into or else make your own.

Actually Scotland originally had a ton of trees. They were just all chopped down by the inhabitants. Go figure.

same goes for spain by the way :p. The entire peninsula was forested, untill they decided to build the spanish armada.

Thanks for the history lesson :).
And Cephalo, all the trees give your maps a unique style, thats true and i can live with that of course.
But what about the starting locations. They seem to be even worse than the normal ones. I do not like to have 1/2 Civs out of the game cause of the location. Is there a possibilty for me to change that on my own?
Sorry for the questions and a big GZ :goodjob:

Actually Scotland originally had a ton of trees. They were just all chopped down by the inhabitants. Go figure.

That's amazing! I so curious what the evidence is. The only thing that makes me question it, is that I live in a place that used to be plains, but because the bison no longer graze here and forest grass fires not allowed to burn, it's all covered in trees now. Here, the european presence caused trees to spring up everywhere where there was previously very few trees. I wonder what keeps them away in Scotland. This however, is veeeery off topic.:lol: I should get back to questions about the map.

Thanks for the history lesson :).
And Cephalo, all the trees give your maps a unique style, thats true and i can live with that of course.
But what about the starting locations. They seem to be even worse than the normal ones. I do not like to have 1/2 Civs out of the game cause of the location. Is there a possibilty for me to change that on my own?
Sorry for the questions and a big GZ :goodjob:

One of the goals of this map script was to put the individual civs in a fictionally appropriate climate area. That is achieved by placing them in a valley that most closely matches their defined preferences, that also is more distant to other starting locations. Once they have a valley, then the starting plot finder uses the normal routines to find the best place in just that one valley. It's kindof a difficult balance to get exactly right. If you have any ideas that can improve it, I'm all ears, but remember the guiding principle, "Fiction over function". :)

I wonder what keeps them away in Scotland.

Sheep. LOTS of sheep. ;)

Sheep. LOTS of sheep. ;)

No... That's Wales *cheeky grin*

A lot of Scotland still is trees - it's just not the parts that many people visit.

No... That's Wales *cheeky grin*

A lot of Scotland still is trees - it's just not the parts that many people visit.

You know, after doing some internet research on the subject, I have come to the conclusion that I know absolutely nothing about Scotland. :lol: So when I say Scotland this and Scotland that, just ignore me.

The whole of Europe was once almost entirely covered in dense forest. So it's pretty much been mostly chopped down everywhere.

so now you know why civ thinks a completely forested grassland start is good :p

Hello Cephalo, your Mapscript is very nice.
Using it exclusively for some time now.

One idea though for helping the Malakim and perhaps the Dwarves as well (Illians and Doviello have been helped by Patch 0.31 allredy if i remember rightly. So no other "terrain disadvantaged folks" anymore):
Add a good ammount of Oasis (read: quite alot) to the Malakim Valley.
That could help them to get on their feet way better (even though they did quite well in my last large map no-ai-building requirements Immortal game.) and it whould fit their style / background as well.

The same to a smaller degree with the Dwarves and their hilly plains:
With some more Food resources than average (wheat and pigs (or do they only appear on Grasslands? then Cows might be a better replacement even if not so fitting) whould be the most fitting i reckon) they should do well. How much is balanced, should be not so hard to test via some games. Feedback will be available for you on short notice, i'm sure. :)

Only if that can be sensibly done at all, naturally. But perhaps it could work. And that is guaranteed to help them big time and add some additional flavor for them as well.

To counter some comments about Lanun. I find playing them quite nice and powerful in the creation maps always starting by the ocean dividing the Continents that do exist (dont know about smaller maps than large though.).

If Pirate-Ports distance check changes, that may change though. But even then i think in the hands of an experienced player they are by no means disadvantaged on creation maps.

Thanks for your efforts though has made FFH even more enjoyable for me. :)

dwarves should def. get pigs in their neighborhood, or atleast a higher chance of getting them. Pigs serve as the horses for the dwarves remember!

One idea though for helping the Malakim and perhaps the Dwarves as well (Illians and Doviello have been helped by Patch 0.31 allredy if i remember rightly. So no other "terrain disadvantaged folks" anymore):
Add a good ammount of Oasis (read: quite alot) to the Malakim Valley.
That could help them to get on their feet way better (even though they did quite well in my last large map no-ai-building requirements Immortal game.) and it whould fit their style / background as well.

The same to a smaller degree with the Dwarves and their hilly plains:
With some more Food resources than average (wheat and pigs (or do they only appear on Grasslands? then Cows might be a better replacement even if not so fitting) whould be the most fitting i reckon) they should do well. How much is balanced, should be not so hard to test via some games. Feedback will be available for you on short notice, i'm sure. :)

Only if that can be sensibly done at all, naturally. But perhaps it could work. And that is guaranteed to help them big time and add some additional flavor for them as well.


Thanks for the compliments! Yeah, one of my big wish-listy things for FFH is that each civ with a terrain preference have some fun interesting way of utilizing it better than everyone else. Here is a thread I posted on the matter http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=262124. It says "please change the game to suit my map." :lol:

The problem of just boosting their starting area is that then the other deserts remain useless even to the people who are supposed to thrive in the desert. In that case the only reason the Malakim can survive is not because of their knowledge and culture, but because they happen to have found a desert that is unusually productive. Also, anyone who would conquer them would enjoy these same benefits.

I totally see what you are thinking with this and I agree that a civ shouldn't be totally gimped by their fictional preference, but it should be done right instead of just a band-aid.

Cephalo, will you bring out a new v