View Full Version : A possible replacement for sleep?


Erik Mesoy
Feb 05, 2008, 11:38 AM
Slightly old, but I think it deserves a proper discussion here. Didn't see anything when I searched for "sleep" in titles, so I figure it's not a duplicate.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/12/sleep_deprivation

Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep

In what sounds like a dream for millions of tired coffee drinkers, Darpa-funded scientists might have found a drug that will eliminate sleepiness.

A nasal spray containing a naturally occurring brain hormone called orexin A reversed the effects of sleep deprivation in monkeys, allowing them to perform like well-rested monkeys on cognitive tests. The discovery's first application will probably be in treatment of the severe sleep disorder narcolepsy.

The treatment is "a totally new route for increasing arousal, and the new study shows it to be relatively benign," said Jerome Siegel, a professor of psychiatry at UCLA and a co-author of the paper. "It reduces sleepiness without causing edginess."

Orexin A is a promising candidate to become a "sleep replacement" drug. For decades, stimulants have been used to combat sleepiness, but they can be addictive and often have side effects, including raising blood pressure or causing mood swings. The military, for example, administers amphetamines to pilots flying long distances, and has funded research into new drugs like the stimulant modafinil (.pdf) and orexin A in an effort to help troops stay awake with the fewest side effects.

The monkeys were deprived of sleep for 30 to 36 hours and then given either orexin A or a saline placebo before taking standard cognitive tests. The monkeys given orexin A in a nasal spray scored about the same as alert monkeys, while the saline-control group was severely impaired.

The study, published in the Dec. 26 edition of The Journal of Neuroscience, found orexin A not only restored monkeys' cognitive abilities but made their brains look "awake" in PET scans.

Siegel said that orexin A is unique in that it only had an impact on sleepy monkeys, not alert ones, and that it is "specific in reversing the effects of sleepiness" without other impacts on the brain.

Such a product could be widely desired by the more than 70 percent of Americans who the National Sleep Foundation estimates get less than the generally recommended eight hours of sleep per night (.pdf).

The research follows the discovery by Siegel that the absence of orexin A appears to cause narcolepsy. That finding pointed to a major role for the peptide's absence in causing sleepiness. It stood to reason that if the deficit of orexin A makes people sleepy, adding it back into the brain would reduce the effects, said Siegel.

"What we've been doing so far is increasing arousal without dealing with the underlying problem," he said. "If the underlying deficit is a loss of orexin, and it clearly is, then the best treatment would be orexin."

Dr. Michael Twery, director of the National Center on Sleep Disorders Research, said that while research into drugs for sleepiness is "very interesting," he cautioned that the long-term consequences of not sleeping were not well-known.

Both Twery and Siegel noted that it is unclear whether or not treating the brain chemistry behind sleepiness would alleviate the other problems associated with sleep deprivation.

"New research indicates that not getting enough sleep is associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease and metabolic disorders," said Twery.

Still, Siegel said that Americans already recognize that sleepiness is a problem and have long treated it with a variety of stimulants.

"We have to realize that we are already living in a society where we are already self-medicating with caffeine," he said.

He also said that modafinil, which is marketed as Provigil by Cephalon and Alertec in Canada, has become widely used by healthy individuals for managing sleepiness.

"We have these other precedents, and it's not clear that you can't use orexin A temporarily to reduce sleep," said Siegel. "On the other hand, you'd have to be a fool to advocate taking this and reducing sleep as much as possible."

Sleep advocates probably won't have to worry about orexin A reaching drugstore shelves for many years. Any commercial treatment using the substance would need approval from the Food and Drug Administration, which can take more than a decade.

I'm interested! My sleep is mostly dreamless these days anyway; on the occasions that I do dream, they're weird dreams that I could have done without. I sort through my thoughts in the daytime a lot anyway, so I could probably "get away with" reducing my sleep to about two hours a day (or a night every few days) and having more productive time.

Thoughts?

dutchfire
Feb 05, 2008, 11:49 AM
Slightly old, but I think it deserves a proper discussion here. Didn't see anything when I searched for "sleep" in titles, so I figure it's not a duplicate.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2007/12/sleep_deprivation

Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep



I'm interested! My sleep is mostly dreamless these days anyway; on the occasions that I do dream, they're weird dreams that I could have done without. I sort through my thoughts in the daytime a lot anyway, so I could probably "get away with" reducing my sleep to about two hours a day (or a night every few days) and having more productive time.

Thoughts?

But dreaming is more real than normal life, why would you want to lose dreaming! ;)

GoodSarmatian
Feb 05, 2008, 12:21 PM
Not in a hundred years
It might eliminate some symptoms of sleep deprivation in the brain, and I although the article doesn't seem to mention it there's probably a limit to how long you can use it befor you really need to sleep again.

LucyDuke
Feb 05, 2008, 12:23 PM
Both Twery and Siegel noted that it is unclear whether or not treating the brain chemistry behind sleepiness would alleviate the other problems associated with sleep deprivation.

That's what worries me. It's more than just alertness that we sleep for.

Erik Mesoy
Feb 05, 2008, 12:42 PM
That's what worries me. It's more than just alertness that we sleep for.
Of course not. But what else do we sleep for?

Sorting out thoughts? I do that while awake, regularly. Rest? I don't get enough activity anyway. More people are obese than underweight in the countries where this is likely to be a problem.

The article commented on how other things like amphetamines had been tried to increase alertness, and those had side-effects, while this "reversed the effects of sleep deprivation".

I would still sleep if I got this. But I'd want a little more use out of the nights where I lie awake late and try to get something done, but I can't work because I'm not alert enough and I can't sleep because I'm not tired enough.

LucyDuke
Feb 05, 2008, 12:46 PM
Rest? I don't get enough activity anyway. More people are obese than underweight in the countries where this is likely to be a problem.

A particular kind of rest, isn't it? The body repairs itself very differently while you're sleeping than it does while you're sitting at your computer. Slowed breathing, heartrate... how can we sidestep all these things and stay healthy?

Disclaim: I don't know much about what I'm talking about. I'd appreciate corrections if they're warranted.

Abaddon
Feb 05, 2008, 01:26 PM
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/hallucinations.png

GoodSarmatian
Feb 05, 2008, 01:49 PM
General maintainance, not fully understood. Muscles, nerves, immune system... You name it.
One example: After abuot 20 hours without sleep the percentage/activity of your killer cells falls signifiicantly.
Now I don't remember where I first read this, but a short google search provides some links to back it up.

http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&hs=FJp&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=sleep+deprivation+killer+cells&spell=1

StarWorms
Feb 05, 2008, 03:05 PM
Removing symptoms does not mean a replacement. However, I would probably think about using it for times that I need to stay up late and alert to meet deadlines.

Brighteye
Feb 05, 2008, 07:48 PM
Removing symptoms [of a lack] does not mean a replacement.
Here's the truth. Symptoms of sleepiness are very different from the need to sleep. Alleviating symptoms may help us understand more about what sleep does that makes us need it so much.

I vote for extensive animal experimentation first.

Snowball
Feb 05, 2008, 07:50 PM
I don't think this would really be a replacement for sleep. It would just temporarily improve alertness. Human beings need to go into REM sleep to be able to function mentally, and this wouldn't to anything for that.

Narz
Feb 05, 2008, 09:06 PM
Even if I could snort some stuff to replace sleep I wouldn't want to. It would be like taking a pill to replace eating or sex.

Indiansmoke
Feb 06, 2008, 02:29 AM
Well in Universities the "no sleep" pills have been popular for decates... I had class mates taking those legal pills and staying awake for 6-7 days straight to study during exams!!!

StarWorms
Feb 06, 2008, 05:06 AM
Well in Universities the "no sleep" pills have been popular for decates... I had class mates taking those legal pills and staying awake for 6-7 days straight to study during exams!!!

Pro Plus is a lifesaver :p

The Yankee
Feb 09, 2008, 04:25 AM
This would be quite useful at times, especially for me, since I once fell asleep after downing No-Doz pills, but I don't think it could be a permanent solution. Besides, nothing like a good night's sleep.

sirdanilot
Feb 10, 2008, 04:39 AM
I think that if someone would only take in this orixin A and not sleep at all, they'd die in about one week. Science simply doesn't know everything about sleep yet, not even exactly why we sleep, so finding a replacement for sleep is just stupid in my opinion.
It could be cool to use it once in a while though.

echinococcus
Feb 10, 2008, 10:37 AM
Im sure this will be used in the military.

warpus
Feb 10, 2008, 11:45 AM
A particular kind of rest, isn't it? The body repairs itself very differently while you're sleeping than it does while you're sitting at your computer. Slowed breathing, heartrate... how can we sidestep all these things and stay healthy?

Disclaim: I don't know much about what I'm talking about. I'd appreciate corrections if they're warranted.

I don't think anyone really knows why we sleep and why we need it.

So.. how can we replace something we don't understand? I doubt this will be an effective replacement for sleep..

stickciv
Feb 11, 2008, 02:16 AM
I would love to have some of these right now...

Tank_Guy#3
Feb 13, 2008, 01:39 PM
I think this would eventually have some very bad consequences. Either short term or long term.

Eran of Arcadia
Feb 14, 2008, 10:12 AM
It would be like taking a pill to replace eating or sex.

Well, maybe you wouldn't want that . . .

BasketCase
Feb 20, 2008, 08:57 PM
I think I'll stick with natural sleep instead of this drug.

Not for health reasons, though. You see, after a rough day, I like nothing better than cozying up to the pillow and conking out. When you're unconscious, the world's problems can't touch you. I'm immune to global warming and nuclear war and Ice Cube's crappy music and Narz' bad jokes, and I can't hear Castro's constant ranting about the evils of capitalism, and....well....lots of other things, really.

Sure, I could have a really nasty nightmare, but the most creepy things my brain invents, it invents when I'm wide awake.

Luckymoose
Feb 22, 2008, 02:32 AM
Eliminating sleep would give everyone a third of their life to do what they want.

stickciv
Feb 22, 2008, 02:22 PM
Eliminating sleep would give everyone a third of their life to do what they want.

Until we know what the effects of replacing sleep with this though, that 3rd might not be worth it..