Hey all, long time CIV player (10+ years) looking for a little advice.

I'm using BtS, with the latest patch (as of (2-4-08)


I seem to find Chieftan a little too easy. Last game I played I ended up winning culturally at 1936 AD. It was a blast, but it felt a bit "too easy". So I decided to try warlord diff level...


I have since attempted warlord at least 5 times, I may have won once, but without reaching the highest score among the AI (Cultural).

Here's my main problems:

1: Getting Pinned. It seems in roughly 75% of the games I've played with good starts I get stuck in a small landmass with a choke point that gets immediately controlled by one or more AI (I managed to snag the choke-point in one game only to realize there were two AI's right behind it).

Even if I don't get stuck on a small landmass, eventually the AI surround me, usually before, or even well before AD. I end up with only about 6 cities (or fewer) to use to fight off civs that keep on expanding.



2. Chain War declarations. I understand the AI's logic, but it still sucks when it happens. For example, in my last game I was 50% higher in score than Budica (Celts), the second highest AI. I thought I was doing pretty well. Suddenly, out of the blue, she declares war. Next turn 3 other AI follow suit. They were not Vassals, nor were they allied, in fact, it was even before 100AD. All I had defending my cities were about 3 warriors each, plus about 3 rchers each, plus 1-2 axemen each. All I can figure is that she spotted the 1 city I just built that only had an archer and a warrior (or she cheated and "just knew").

Remember, this was a standard map, so there should have only been 7 AI, I had 4 against me.

I understand that the other AI's jumped in because I was supposedly "weaker" for being at war with another AI, but 3 of them???



One l last thing I'm not understanding, naval combat. If I take an attack submarine or missile cruiser against a destoryer, I've got about <5% odds of winning, on Warlord, WHY??? It's not like they're in a city, it's just mono on mono



Anyway, I'd just like to know how to avoid getting pinched in, and how to keep the AI from ganging up on me right when I'm in the middle of my building phase.


Most of the time I've been playing standard maps, of different types, Continents, Great Plains, Hemispheres, etc.


Thanks,
Dan

Well, playing on much higher difficulties, I usually don't get much more than 8 cities unless I conquer some. All I can really say is that there's an obvious answer: expand faster. Having 3 warriors in each of 6 cities is a little bit weird, I usually build no more than 4 or 5 warriors total, and one or two of them are explorers. Granted I don't play on raging barbarians, but those hammers are most likely better used on more workers or settlers.

If you really have 6-7 defenders in each city, it's shocking to me that you get declared on frequently, because that doesn't usually happen, at least on Monarch. I often make do with only a couple units in my back cities and 5-6 up-to-date units in the border cities.

Are you keeping up technologically? That's all I can really think, unless you're either a total jerk to your neighbors (do you open borders with any? do you convert your religion?) or you're usually not as powerful as you are presenting yourself to be. Generally the Apostolic Palace is behind mass-declarations, but you seem pretty sure that isn't it. Do they pop up the diplomacy window to declare the war, or do they do it silently? The diplomacy window indicates that they planned it, and weren't forced by the wonder.

As for the navy, the attack submarine has a lower strength than the destroyer, especially if the destroyer is sitting on the coast so it gets the +10% bonus (24 vs. 33). Your situation with the missile cruiser is basically impossible unless you're not telling us something. Is the destroyer heavily promoted? Is your missile cruiser damaged? If they're both at full health, then even a combat 3 destroyer is weaker than the cruiser, so there's no way it's got a 5% chance to lose.

Little note for the OP. The score you see at the bottom right, doesn't represent your military power.
The number is influenced by territory, population, number of techs and wonders, so you can be first on that list and have much more points than all the AIs and still be militarily weak.

If you want to see how strong you are compared to others, go to F9 screen and than on demographics. It will show you your current position on the power list, plus how much the strongest civ is strong and weakest (presuming its not you) is weak.

I still play Warlord level, so I feel your pain. One of the reasons that the AI gets more cities, is that they usually put their cities in only somewhat good locations, and pack them way to close together. This leads to less maintenance per city, worse cities, and more cities. The way I solve this problem, is to take out an AI civ by around turn 100. It gives me about 6 or 7 cities by then, and takes out another AI civ that I might need to compete with for land. Also, capitols are usually in very good locations, provided that the AI doesn't screw that up. After here, sometimes I found more cities, but usually none or only 1. I have a game going where I control my entire continent, and I only founded 4 cities.:crazyeye:

what I have seen said above is all good. Especially important above is making sure you are keeping up your tech... remember that for the power graph, warriors don't count as much as higher tech units.

At this stage, I would want to make sure you were keeping a strong economy... which will help you take care of the tech issue. Place cottages on your grasslands and floodplains tiles, and make sure that at least some of them get worked. A financial leader will make this go even better, as a flood plain with a cottage will get 3:commerce: instead of 2... this boost really helps the economy, especially early on. Courthouses are also invaluable to a burgeoning economy, helping reduce maintenance.

As for getting bottled up, this will happen... get used to it. On higher levels, it will happen more, making it so you will need to become more aggressive. Perhaps one of the best ways to deal with early AI rapid expansion is to let them build, then take it for yourself! :evil: Also, make sure you have at least one worker per city (at least in the early periods) so that your cities can develop as quickly as possible.

Since you obviously are able to build units, start looking towards creating an offensive "Stack of Doom" as soon as you can... Axes are key to the early periods, perhaps with a scattering of spears and chariots (or horse archers). When you get them, add cats in, so that you can take down those nasty defenses. Just make sure you get enough, so you don't stall at the city gates too long.

There are lots of good strategy talks on these boards... read, read, read!!!

One more thing.
The number of cities is not really that important.
I play on Monarch and never build more than 5-6 cities.....yet i always win :)

And no, not because i conquered all the other cities, i win space race 99% of the time, with nothing but the cities i built at the start.

Instead of focusing on rapid expansion, focus on city specialization and national wonders placement. Try to have a GP farm and an economic powerhouse city in each game.

Oh yeah, one more thing, clever diplomacy.

Adding a bit to what everyone else said ... one thing I try to always do is immediately explore with the one unit (warrior/scout) you start with, and discover the locale you're in/neighbors you have. Possibly build a second (esp if first one gets eaten!) You should be able to have a good idea by the time you are able to produce your first settler, even if you prioritize it to do right after your first worker. Then you should zoom out & plan your expansion, targeting you second city not always necessarily to hook up important resources, but also to "stake out" territory by expanding towards the AI and/or in a place that "blocks off" the AI from expanding contiguously into a region you want to preserve for your future expansion. I personally zoom out far enough to go into tactical level and use the drawing tools and signs to make notes on the map to remind me what my long term expansion strategy is. The point is, you should already have an expansion plan in mind by the 30th turn of the game, if not before. By the tiem you're already "boxed in" it's way too late to start thinking about it.

That is the first step to improving your game. As you become more adept at that, the next step is to "stake out" territory not just by expanding quickly & in the best direction for long-term purposes, but also to look at doing a "rush" to actually wipe out or cripple one of your neighbors before 2000 BC. Paired with subsequently emphasizing expansion that tends to guarantee you'll be the biggest territory nation, not the smallest.

One more thing.
The number of cities is not really that important.
I play on Monarch and never build more than 5-6 cities.....yet i always win :)he problem with this strategy (I know because it used to be mine) is that it tends to leave you high & dry once you go beyond monarch, turn on aggressive AI option, etc. ...

play Rome
Pret rush your neighbour
problem solved :D

play Rome
Pret rush your neighbour
problem solved :D

For me it's more like:

Play Rome
no iron near first three cities.
Get pwned by neighbor.

Okay guys, I've been doing most of the above. I've read a good portion of the articles in the War Academy, and like I've said, I've played CIV for over 10 years.



Here's what happened in my last game for an example:


1. I'm in the NE corner of a continent with Egypt taking up the NW, Bismark to my SW, and Hannibal in the far South. Egypt had the lowest score, and lowest Power (yes, I know all about Power vs Score). I figured I'd just take her out, and use her cities and resources to wipe out Bismark who was 2 places behind me and then Hannibal who was right below me (and had equal power).


After taking out only 3 of 9 Egyptian cities Egypt became a Vassal of Germany, and of course this put me in a war wtih Germany. I held out pretty good, but it's damn near impossible to fight a war on two fronts.

I had the Apostileistic palace, and so I voted to make peace. I upgraded all my mounted units to Calvary (about 15 of them) and my artillery units to cannons (about 8 of them) and went back to war with Egypt (and Bismark of course) after the peace treaty expired. I took another 3 cities from Egypt, and all was doing well, until Bismark and Egypt both got Grenadiers, and I was just then working on Infantry.


While Egypt was no longer a threat, and would have made for an easy victory, Germany came at me immediately with 2 stacks of Grenadiers and oddly enough Trebuchets (I don't think he had iron). Of course, greneadiers will usualy win against Rifleman, so even though I had 4 rifleman in my city closest to the border, it wasn't enough.





The thing that really frustrates me is that every time I play on Chieftain it's way too easy. I usually win by 1980 (earliest was 1936) but I haven't won a Warlord victory in years. That's what frustrates me the most.


What all changes in each difficulty level?

One problem I fear I'm facing is that I get accustomed to the easy gameplay of Chieftan and don't put up a big enough fight in Warlord. Why is there such a huge gap between the two?



Thanks,
Dan

Umm... all I can really say is that if your FIRST invasion of the weakest power happens at a time when the same war will involve grenadiers and riflemen, you are not starting early enough.

If you can get to macemen and trebuchets before the opponent gets there, you should be able to crush an opponent far before that.

As for the vassalge problem, it happens, though in my experience not very often. As for what changes in difficulty, I believe there's a health difference from Warlord to above-Warlord, and the computer receives more initial units. They are also (I think) more aggressive towards you, and also receive bonuses to production and science.

If you get pinned in, get catapults and unpin yourself by taking the enemy city.
Use 3-5 catapults and axemen/macemen/swordsman or even mounted units to mop up the damaged enemy.

If you get DOW'd (declaration of war) by multiple enemies, it is usually because you are attacking a vassal of another, or if you are the lone religion amongst a group of others. (e.g. Israel in the Middle East). Try to spread your religion if you can.

Strategies all depend upon what level you play at, type of map, no of AI, etc., but things are easier if you get one of copper/iron early on.

Here is the thing.....

Like the post earlier, the number of cities beyond 5 is not that important early on. You probably wont get more than that as the AI locks you in. What you need to do is to get your cities to grow and fast. One worker per city is not enough, I work on about 1.5 per city. Hook up your happy resources as quickly as possible - this allows you to grow. Don't neglect farms for cottages - make sure that you always have great food resources. Food is the MOST important thing in the game. As soon as you can sensibly research Monachy - do it. It will explode your happiness cap if you have 2-4 units in your city. Always have one city pumping out units, preferrably Axes or alike. Make sure you have a well complimented stack of 8-12 units at your defensive disposal. As mentioned previously, get your capital pumping out great people, preferrably scientists. Once you have you library, drop in 2 specialists, working you high food tiles.

On a side issue - once I have my second city settled, I let my capital grow to its cap and then use it to pump out workers and settlers. This should, most of the time at least allow you to get 5-6 cities. Other than bronze working, you should always research techs that help your capital grow first.

Once all of this is in place use GS (generated by you capital running scientists specialistd) to pop, Phill, Paper, Eductation, Lib. Do not get machinery before you go for Lib or you will not be able to pop it.

Once there beeline for rifling. When you have it and providing others dont. Draft and build them like crazy - 30-40 should make you invincible (you are not building enough). Then smash your first opponent. Dont always go in with a single stack against one city, use spies to find out where their main force is, use enough to take that down and use a separate smaller stack to take another nearby city that is undermaned. If you can get their capital and then sue for peace, while you regather. Be aware that you get about 10-12 turns before war weariness will start to hurt you too much.

Sounds like you've got a solid handle on early expansion. Half a dozen cities is more than enough to get your empire going in the initial settler rush. If your science slider drops below 70% at any time, consider holding back for a while unless you're looking at a seriously choice building site. More cities early in the game means more production, but it can also tank your economy, which will leave you behind on techs.

If you're fighting grenadiers with cavalry on Warlord, something's going wrong with your economy. There are a couple of ways this can happen, and you'll probably get better help if we know what.

How are your city specialization skills so far? Here's how you find out: if you're building a cottage inside the BFC of your unit pump city, you can specialize more. If you're building a library in your unit pump, you can specialize more. If you haven't got a unit pump, we need to have a discussion about specialization.

A good rule of thumb is to have two commerce cities for each production city. Are you putting down enough cottages? Are your cities consistently hitting their happy caps? Do you generally keep your science slider at or above 70%?

How much tech trading do you do? If you don't trade away your techs early and often, the AI is going to leave you in the dust no matter how good your economy is. If you're having trouble with this aspect, try playing a few games with tech trading turned off while you hone your other skills...but don't let it build up bad habits.

Finally, to develop your fundamentals, it may be helpful to play a game where you don't build any wonders at all other than those you get from Great Engineers. Putting those hammers into buildings and units generally results in a healthier society overall, and once you've got a large army of catapults and swords, you generally get the inclination to use them. Early wars are a better way to get land than overextending yourself in the settler phase, since your economy is a bit more resilient. And the Pyramids you capture do pretty much the same job as the ones you build, and are quite a bit cheaper.

what you should do is bribe other ais into war with you before your enemy does.

Most of the time you can't bribe anyone to do anything - especially on the higher levels.

I don't care too much about my sicence slider - more the output. If I'm not pushing out about 50 beakers around 500BC I'm in trouble, 200 beakers at about 600AD. You need to mature those cottages, but not at the expense of sufficient farms. I buidl a lot of multi tasking cities - so would be interested in some of your specialisation techniques.

Thanks guys.


I suppose I am lacking in specialization. One problem I'm having is keeping in the TBS mindset, the one where you are allowed to sit and think about what to do next. I think I'm too often trying to rush through the game, rather than stragetigizing. That could be because I've played too many FPS / RPG / RTS games, or it could just be that I'm impatient. :-P


Anyway, I've got the game saved right before I went to war. Should I restart or see if I can salvage this one?

Other thoughts:

1. I probably do build too many wonders.
2. I traded as many techs as the AI had to offer, and I was on top of technology before the last round of war. I guess I just should have waited the extra 5 turns for Infantry before declaring war, was just surprised that Bismark had upgraded his units to grenadiers so quickly.
3. Other than war, the game really was going quite well. I had all the Holy Cities but Hinduism, and was raking in over 150GPT at 80%. ( I had spammed a lot of cottages and Missionaries :-P)


I guess my other problem is that I've always been a builder, but war is necessary in this game to keep on top.

Dan

Yep - your right on all fronts.

You should try not to rush especially early on - everything you do must have a purpose. The next tech, shouldbe something that gives your situation an advantage. Don't go after iron working if you haven't got farming and wheat is in your capitals fat cross, for example.

Don't trade lots of cheap techs for an expensive one - it just helps the AI - unless it is for the following reason. Keep checking what the AI's have "F4" - it think???. If you have a really good tech that one AI has just got - trade it off before he does. Pop Phill for example with GS and then trade it against everyone else you know. I bit contradictory I know but you will get the hang of it.

Don't spam cottages at the expense of sufficient farms. Try to work some of your cottages as soon as you get them so they mature.

Don't build any wonders unless you have the time. They all rave about the Pyramids on this forum, but you don't need them, they ost too much. The only wonders I go for if I can are Stone henge - cheap and is like have the Creative trait, but the most important to me is the great library. I build this if I can as it helps the popping of sientist no end. Lastly United Nations - just to get in the Diplomatic win race.