Hola!

Only played one game of BTS so far, but it was intriguing. I understand that you can steal techs even if tech trading is off, but I was probably already ahead of everyone by the point I got to testing spies in my easy "What's New?" game.

It's occurred to me now that I was probably handing out free techs like candy in my border cities, as the water was typically poisoned and half the improvements were destroyed. So...

1. Does having a spy fortified in a city prevent ALL espionage in that tile? What about the tile next to them?

2. I noticed I was receiving two different messages when spies had been uncovered. Was one message for when they randomly failed, and one was for when a spy in my tile had uncovered them?

3. Does spending my espionage points reduce my passive missions, such as seeing what they're building? I found these to be more valuable in planning than running the small missions.

4. Is it only great spies that can run the mission that gives you espionage points against that one player?

Thanks,

Gamemaster3000

P.S. Did give it the ol' college try to find these answers before posting.

OK, I'm no expert, but here's what I know...

1. No. Having a spy present in a city gives a increased chance of enemy spy failure, but does not prevent espionage. This bonus is replaced by a security beareau (spelling for the loss!) but the two bonuses do not stack - that is, if you have a sec. bur. you no longer need the spy there (though I tend to leave mine there just in case!)

2. Yes, as far as I know, the message about failure due to increased counterespionage (or however is states it) is a result of your spies catching someone. No 100% certain about this, though.

3. In the sense that spending your points reduces your point pool, and can drop you below the required ratio to execute passive missions, yes it does. So spend those point wisely, or be ready to rack up more points! :)

4. Yes, only great spies can execute the 'infiltrate civ' mission and give you a bunch of spy points all at once.

Again, I'm not an espionage expert - so take all with a generous helping of salt!

When my counterespionage catches enemy spies, sometimes I recieve the generic "a spy was caught near..." and sometimes I get "a (insert civ) spy"

Why is this and does it really matter?

When my counterespionage catches enemy spies, sometimes I recieve the generic "a spy was caught near..." and sometimes I get "a (insert civ) spy"

Why is this and does it really matter?

If you know who is spying, immediately open a dialog with them and demand something.

There are 2 levels of success when you catch a spy - if you 'just barely' caught them, you caught them and eliminate the unit, but you don't know who sent them. If you get a named civ, that means you eliminated the spy AND you know who was spying on you. For the AI, this earns you a -1 diplomacy hit if they positively identify your spy (that is, if you're spying on them and your spy gets caught in this fashion.) For the human player, you just know a certain civ was spying on you, and it's up to you how to respond...

What I'd love to see is the "stop your spying or else!" diplomacy message, becoming available when you catch an enemy spy and positively identify the offending civ, but as of right now, you can't really do anything about it. Well, OK, you could invade, but no options OTHER than war... :)

If you know who is spying, immediately open a dialog with them and demand something.

Does catching one of their spies change relations with them?

Does catching one of their spies change relations with them?

Unfortunately, no. As jeffryac says, it would be nice to have the option to demand they stop spying.

Unfortunately, no. As jeffryac says, it would be nice to have the option to demand they stop spying.Then why did you say to demand something from them, with the added emphasis of "immediately"? Why is it a good idea, & why is timing important? You seem to be implying there's some temporary bonus to take advantage of ...

Then why did you say to demand something from them, with the added emphasis of "immediately"? Why is it a good idea, & why is timing important? You seem to be implying there's some temporary bonus to take advantage of ...

Exactly. Even if you catch one of their spies, their relations might still be pleased or even friendly, and then you can only ask politley!

Sorry - looks like we got tangled up there with our responses.... To clarify, if the AI catches YOU spying, you suffer a -1 diplomatic hit with that AI. If you catch the AI spying, there is no diplomatic bonus (or any effect, diplomatic or other). The only effect is they lose their spy, and you know they were there - no other in-game effects.

To clarify, if the AI catches YOU spying, you suffer a -1 diplomatic hit with that AI. If you catch the AI spying, there is no diplomatic bonus (or any effect, diplomatic or other). The only effect is they lose their spy, and you know they were there - no other in-game effects.

Hmm. Lame.:twitch:

lol,... yeah, I'd certainly love an additional diplomatic option, or something similar - too often, I end up with a LOT of spies caught by one particular civ, with no real recourse other than all-out war... The only real satisfaction is knowing that the civ invading me with spies is losing units (and, therefore, the production it took to make or replace the spy) every time I catch one, but that's a pretty hollow victory considering that a) eventually one will get through if they keep trying and b) there's really nothing I can do about it.

Though I do like the espionage system (despite some imbalances), I wish they had made it less of a stand-alone system and maybe more integrated with diplomacy. Come to think of it, I wish there was more integration with all aspects of the game and diplomacy, though I appreciate the huge headache this would cause...

Security Beaureu OR Spy in a city = roughly 50% Espionage defense. (Not cumulative.)
Espionage Point lead over opponant = More expensive missions for opponant and cheaper missions for you. And v.v. (Don't think this increases defense or success, just affects the cost.)
Counterespionage mission = Much higher cost for opponant to pull a mission on you; also (although this isn't mentioned in the manual), a higher chance of you catching their Spies. ("Due to increased Counterespionage efforts, you have caught..." message)
Also: As a side note, the manual mentions both the "Kill Spy" and "Spies may not enter our borders" missions. These do not exist. :mad:

Espionage points lead (Total spending, not current ballance) also gives you higher chance to incercept the enemy spy, as well as affecting the mission cost. Also Closed Boarders increase the chance to catch them.

Espionage points lead (Total spending, not current ballance) also gives you higher chance to incercept the enemy spy, as well as affecting the mission cost. Also Closed Boarders increase the chance to catch them.

That too lol
Thanks :p

Then why did you say to demand something from them, with the added emphasis of "immediately"? Why is it a good idea, & why is timing important? You seem to be implying there's some temporary bonus to take advantage of ...

No bonus, a philosophy. If they are taking advantage of me, I want to let them know I'm on to them, and it will cost them. It's been debated/suggested that the Ais should incur a penalty when caught spying, but since they don't, I like to make my own demands.

Espionage is one of those "new" things I am just learning. Currently, my Espionage strategy is to steal a couple techs early, and later, hit my neighbors with the "Counter Espionage" thing, forcing them to double their usage to use it against me. This seems to be helping, but I need to study this aspect of the game more, and right now, I am still adjusting to the new stuff from the Vanilla to BTS move.

Great, so the AI is caught spying on you and then you go ahead and get a negative diplo with them as well when they refuse your demand...ultimately the diplo modifier is this AI's way of determining whether to declare war (or trade) with you, if you are really annoyed at them for spying on you either close borders and shutdown all trade or, more extreme, declare war on them. This is no different than what the AI is doing (they don't make demands on you when they catch your spies do they). Seems to be counter productive unless you want them to declare war on you instead to avoid the "friend" penalty from other civs.