So I'm wondering what sort of wonders (if any) a warmonger should shoot for...seems that Great Wall* and Chichen Itza are good and obvious options, however maybe The Great Lighthouse and Temple of Artemis might be good ideas as well (so that you can afford early wars). Anyways, just wondering what sort of strategies people normally do as I tend to go for Science victories normally and would love some advice.

*then again, maybe I'm gimping my armies by not getting easy experience fighting off barbarians?**

**Then again, getting Scotland Yard in the first few turns seems like a nice intelligence advantage early on. Hard to say which is more beneficial :confused:

If you're really going all-out warmonger, what's the point of Chichen Itza? Are you planning on getting attacked very frequently? The Great Wall is different, because you A) can get an early Great Spy, and B) can pop extra great generals.

I would say Stonehenge and the Pyramids are the most critical early wonders, as always. They permit you to pop borders on your cities and on newly captured ones, and to adopt those oh-so-crucial government civics early on. And of course the Oracle could make for a big slingshot towards macemen.

You want the Pentagon eventually, though by that point you've probably got it in the bag. Other than that I'd say the only wonders you might want would be financial.

Generally speaking though, you shouldn't even be trying to build more than a couple. You're going to be taking over opposing capitals anyway, and they'll have build wonders for you to enjoy without having spent the time.

The Statue of Zeus, just so you won't have to fight someone who has it.
If I'm going to be warmongering, I always try to build it.

But even if I'm not, I still build it anyways XD

And as for the Great Wall, you won't necessarily be hurting your armies: you could just attack any barbs that come in for a look. Post some new units by your borders and hit any that come by.

the heroic epic, west point

The pyramids for early police state is good. Costs too many hammers to build yourself though. unless you're ind and have stone it's better to steal it from another civ with axes.

What if they get built by some guy on another continent?

I would say Pyramids for the extra science from specialists. Can save your research from crashing when WW mounts up. Great Lighthouse can also be good to keep economy up if you are playing a coastal map. Everything else is just a bonus.

(Chichen Itza is horrible, only reason to build it is those +2GP points)

Police State is usually not worth it. You don't have many hammers early game so the boost to army isn't that huge (you should whip and stuff more, not sure if this is affected by it) and it's costly and costs anarchy unless you are spiritual. I use Rep/Her. Rule instead most of the time, exception if I fight civ with Statue of Zeus and can't capture it quick enough.

What if they get built by some guy on another continent?

If you're warmongering you do pangaea. Duh.

If you're warmongering you do pangaea. Duh.

Sorry, but not everyone rigs the map to be beneficial to the goal they plan to achieve.

They should.

If you're warmongering you do pangaea. Duh.

Try Ragnar on Archipelago. Upgrade those berserkers to rifles/infantry and get a strong navy. Enjoy the slaughter :p

They should.

Why? XCL

Why? XCL

Because civ is a game and people play games to have fun.

Pangaea maps leave the interesting things of civ in the game. It doesn't make it easier. It makes things harder. You're more likely to have multiple enemy ais on your borders, diplomacy becomes tricker, the ai trades more so it's harder to keep up. But it eliminates the annoyance of having to build transports and having to ferry troops across an ocean, which takes no thought or strategy, it's just annoying.



Custom game options are there for a reason, use them. If you enjoy building but hate warring, choose your leaders. Put Gandhi, Hatty, etc, in your game and build to your heart's content.

For early stages pyramid, great wall and stonehenge.

pyramid so that you can choose police state, great wall to get out all those extra great generals, and stonehenge so that your newly conquered cities doesnt get eaten by enemy culture.

pentagon is obviously the best warmongering wonder (what a coincidence . . .) +2 military exp to every single city, but yeah that comes around later.

i never really bother with spies because you can sort of guess yourself to the most of it, but if you're into the spy thing it's probably handy for war, and then spy oriented wonders such as the Kremlin wouldn't be a bad idea ;)

Because civ is a game and people play games to have fun.

Pangaea maps leave the interesting things of civ in the game. It doesn't make it easier. It makes things harder. You're more likely to have multiple enemy ais on your borders, diplomacy becomes tricker, the ai trades more so it's harder to keep up. But it eliminates the annoyance of having to build transports and having to ferry troops across an ocean, which takes no thought or strategy, it's just annoying.



Custom game options are there for a reason, use them. If you enjoy building but hate warring, choose your leaders. Put Gandhi, Hatty, etc, in your game and build to your heart's content.


ok that's just plain . .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..

1. all games are about having fun, i never bought a game to feel pain, dunno about you.

2. challenge is equally fun so obviously you can never say you will find the ideal map style because all of them have different valuable challenges.

3. ocean transport is not just annoying. that sounds like its coming from someone who is tired of getting his transport ships blown to pieces because he sucks at sea..:p and it's not even realistic. you have to go back 5000 years in history to find sea transportation useless. since then it's been the most common way of transporting armies because its, faster, cheaper and safer.

The only mandatory wonder is the Heroic Epic. Pyramids/Great Wall/Stonehenge or Oracle might be an idea to build if you have the proper strategic resource (Stone and Marble, respectively). Otherwise, you shouldn't really be spending much production on Wonders if you're a warmonger. ;)

Police State is usually not worth it. You don't have many hammers early game so the boost to army isn't that huge (you should whip and stuff more, not sure if this is affected by it) and it's costly and costs anarchy unless you are spiritual. I use Rep/Her. Rule instead most of the time, exception if I fight civ with Statue of Zeus and can't capture it quick enough.

Whipping gets bonuses from production bonuses. So forge + organized religion + police state makes whipping an army pretty efficient. 75% for units that early in the game is pretty good.

Police State is usually not worth it. You don't have many hammers early game so the boost to army isn't that huge (...) I use Rep/Her. Rule

While I agree with switching to Representation with Pyramids for the early game, Police State is FANTASTIC and the most underrated civic of all imo. Not so much for the production bonus (while helpful!) as for the War weariness reduction. I don't know about you guys, but War weariness becomes a major concern for me in about the middle ages with all the minor aggressive "underdog" wars I fight (heavy casualties abroad). Police State helps alleviate a lot of that and enables me to lower my Culture slider significantly.

Whipping gets bonuses from production bonuses. So forge + organized religion + police state makes whipping an army pretty efficient. 75% for units that early in the game is pretty good.

Organised Religion affects only buildings and Police State affects only units, so you'd get +50% at most. Also, by the time I've built Forges I've usually chopped the landscape clean of forests and switched to Caste System. Early in the game (Ancient/Classical), Representation is better for a variety of reasons IMO.

Whipping gets bonuses from production bonuses. So forge + organized religion + police state makes whipping an army pretty efficient. 75% for units that early in the game is pretty good.

And you get a crippling civic upkeep, army production is never my problem, whipping/chopping and decent production cities gives me my army quick. (Organized religion is just for buildings, and I'm pretty sure the multipliers don't stack like that) Not worth losing the research and falling behind for the army production.

While I agree with switching to Representation with Pyramids for the early game, Police State is FANTASTIC and the most underrated civic of all imo. Not so much for the production bonus (while helpful!) as for the War weariness reduction. I don't know about you guys, but War weariness becomes a major concern for me in about the middle ages with all the minor aggressive "underdog" wars I fight (heavy casualties abroad). Police State helps alleviate a lot of that and enables me to lower my Culture slider significantly.

Police state is great when your empire is mature and you get huge war weariness quick. Early game it's not that big of a deal (most of your cities are small and won't get much) and it's easy to combat it through happiness resources. As I said, I only use it early game if I'm fighting Statue of Zeus. You'll lose way too much research during your wars if you use this. (I like to keep up with the AI's while fighting ;))

Because civ is a game and people play games to have fun.

Pangaea maps leave the interesting things of civ in the game. It doesn't make it easier. It makes things harder. You're more likely to have multiple enemy ais on your borders, diplomacy becomes tricker, the ai trades more so it's harder to keep up. But it eliminates the annoyance of having to build transports and having to ferry troops across an ocean, which takes no thought or strategy, it's just annoying.

Custom game options are there for a reason, use them. If you enjoy building but hate warring, choose your leaders. Put Gandhi, Hatty, etc, in your game and build to your heart's content.

Pangaea is the easiest option for Domination/Conquest, you can pretty much ignore navy and fishfood is low on those maps. Try a water map where you fight one at your own continent and suddenly someone lands at the other side of your empire with a navy. Not too mention the huge pain pillaging your fishfood can make for you. As for diplomacy at Pangaea, it's easy if you have mastered the diplomacy game and kiss up/bribe the right AI's. If I play Pangaea I'm the one declaring, and I haven't got any huge problems with other AI's declaring on me. (oh and more AI's gives you more techs too from trading since you get more trading partners)

Notre Dame is also a decent warmonger wonder. +2 :) on the continent it is built on will help with some of :mad: due to war weariness or yearning to join homeland.

Also the AP can be useful if you can spread the AP religion to the AIs and start some religious wars.

If you're warmongering you do pangaea. Duh.

What if the wonderspammer has a buffer civ between you and him, then? That has like half chance of happening on a standard size map, higher if you increase the map size. Will you really eat the huge maintenance costs of sending troops over to him, conquering him, and keeping his land, all the while leaving your pants down so that one of your direct neighbors could forcibly insert himself into you, just so you can have the pyramids? Meh.

I don't like the whole "just steal wonders instead of building them" mentality because all too often, stealing them is inconvenient if not outright impossible.

... The Great Wall is different, because you A) can get an early Great Spy, and B) can pop extra great generals...

You don't want to fight in your territory, so the main advantages of having the GW are the Great Spy as you mentioned and preventing your opponents from getting the GG benefit when you fight within their borders.

The Statue of Zeus, just so you won't have to fight someone who has it.
If I'm going to be warmongering, I always try to build it.

But even if I'm not, I still build it anyways XD


Another vote for Zeus. Fairly easy to get unless you are stuck with early prolonged warring or really bad start. I find it's one of the more consistent wonders I build. The only thing that sucks is the +great artists chance.

I am normally a mild, rather reclusive person, but when playing Civ I become violently aggressive, selfish and treacherous. So I build the GW and SoZ for my own benefit and to stop the opposition getting their grubby paws on them, and the same goes for nearly all the other Wonders, Chichen Itza being one exception and the Shwedagon another. The ones I don't build, I'll capture later. Once I have Police State, Mt. Rushmore and plenty of jails I can ignore war weariness, knowing that my victims will get it double.
And yes, I usually choose a pangaea. Partly to avoid the tedium of transporting my armies across the sea, but mostly because of the various Wonders which are continent-wide. What use is the 3G dam on an archipelago ?

Presumably you are playing warmonger in order to win the game by domination. If so, the answer is to crush the enemy between you and the wonder-spammer, and then crush the wonder-spammer. Perhaps the Pyramids are gone, and you're getting the Statue of Liberty by the time you make it... but regardless, the number of wonders YOU need to build is very low if you are really trying to win the game violently.

If you want to win with culture, you don't even need many cities, and if you want to win with space race, and are warring for space/production/science, then killing one, maybe two neighbors is all that's necessary.

Good point about the Great Wall... personally I am most often a builder and thus like it for the reason of barbarians only, and don't even find the spy that useful. I have never actually used it for the GGs, but I've read others say that it's a useful idea, and perhaps you can do something like the Protective advocates like to, and attract the AI to attack you in your borders. Even one or two GGs early in the game make a huge difference.

Also, I like Pangea for warmongering as well... honestly it doesn't make much difference, it's just slower, and less interesting, when you have to spam a bunch of naval units in addition to your land units. God help you if you're on an archipelago or something.

Also, I like Pangea for warmongering as well... honestly it doesn't make much difference, it's just slower, and less interesting, when you have to spam a bunch of naval units in addition to your land units. God help you if you're on an archipelago or something.

I'm trying an archipelago game right now and it's a nightmare trying to ferry troops around in the early game. Only 2 per boat, and if they come under fire they're in trouble, so you really have to get a lot of boats going to be able to ferry a good siege army there. But at least your own land is somewhat safer.

Good point about the Great Wall... personally I am most often a builder and thus like it for the reason of barbarians only, and don't even find the spy that useful. I have never actually used it for the GGs, but I've read others say that it's a useful idea, and perhaps you can do something like the Protective advocates like to, and attract the AI to attack you in your borders. Even one or two GGs early in the game make a huge difference.

I've recently discovered how amazing the early great spy from the great wall is. After playing a couple of games on emperor i'd put it above the oracle, by far. The oracle gives you 1 tech, usually COL or metal casting. Great, 1 tech. But the great spy from the great wall can give you so many more through stealing from the tech leader. You can easily steal all the lower level techs, like calendar, construction, and mathematics. But you can also usually steal a lot of the banking/engineering line too. In my last game I stole metal casting, machinery, engineering, feudalism, and banking. Techs that i'd usually trade for while going for liberalism I just stole. They key is to just have your spy wait for 5 turns to make stealing cheap.