I have never encountered a time when chariots were a factor in my victory or defeat in any game. Not even AI uses them! For me, horse archers come into play so quickly that chariots are either upgraded immediatley or never even built.

Its a shame, really, because chariots were the powerhouses of real-life anceint armies.

It could be just that I dont know how to use chariots properly. Any thoughts?

Same here, unless im persia or egypt.

I once had a professor that said chariots appeared every 100 years because it takes 100 years to forget that chariots don't work.

Thats a good joke there.

Why dont we have a "mechanized chariot" now then?

I never use chariots myself, but I'm of the understanding that chariots are useful for:

1) early rushes, like very early rushes, they shouldn't have metal and, if you're playing on Prince or below, very few archers
2) barb defense before you get metal or Horseback Riding

But once you get stronger units, they're still decent medics and mop-up units.

Why dont we have a "mechanized chariot" now then?

I suppose tanks or apcs could be considered mechanized chariots. but we know they work!!:lol:

Horseback riding is an expensive, dead-end, tech. Lots of players don't prioritize it, thus are unable to have HA.

Also, chariots are:
- a good rush unit: chariot rush is possible; not as deadly as axe rush, but still
- an excellent defensive unit against barbarian activity: until swords come around, they eat warriors and axes for breakfast, and hold their own against archers, and much more than that, they have 2 moves. Also having access to flanking 1, they make excellent fogbusters.

Is good to have them when your neighbor building axes, Chariots are perfect to counter a early rush (when horses in capitol evan a very early rush),..

I never use horse archers I trade or research horseback riding when knight appears :king:

Cows in the fat cross, teck domsestication, horses pop in the fat cross, spam chariots for a second capital!
Thats pretty much it, even as persia I dont usually build them. In that case they are good though.

Not even AI uses them! For me, horse archers come into play so quickly that chariots are either upgraded immediatley or never even built.


You don't play on Marathon do you?

I guess everyone forgot Chariots are Str-8 vs Axeman.

Chariots are fantastic for multiple reasons:

Anti-barbarian activity.
Stack protection vs. axemen.
They're cheap 2-move units - which means you can attack FAST.
Great fogbusters (because not only do they bust fog, they can kill what shows up)
Super-early riders that can get xp vs. barbarians and then be upgraded to knights later for some stompin'
Fantastic medic units - attach a GG for Medic III and he'll be last-attacked in your stack for the rest of the game one the ancient era is done.

They aren't always useful, but they're plenty useful enough to justify building at least one, if not 20 of 'em.

For use in an early rush of non-UU chariots, check out Mad Scientist's RPC "Shaka: A Gentleman of Culture II". He chariot-rushes Napoleon right out of the game awfully early.

chariot bonus against axemen

I have never encountered a time when chariots were a factor in my victory or defeat in any game. Not even AI uses them!

The AI builds them all the time in my games...sometimes they're about half the composition of an attacking stack...and they did have copper or iron to utilize, as well, so it's not like they had no other choice

Thats a good joke there.

Why dont we have a "mechanized chariot" now then?

How about http://www.google.com/search?q=segway .

I don't think they would be much good in battle though. (unless... Segway vs. Hoveround?)

As has been mentioned, chariots are THE anti-axeman unit.

Heathen

The bonus vs. axmen is an ATTACK bonus so stack protection fails (other than you can attack them first if no other kinds of units are present - especially spears), plus they don't receive defensive bonuses.

In my current game, i've been under attack by Ragnar and his 3 inferior vassals for over 800 years (marathon). I have killed enough AI chariots to pop 9 great generals. So in fact, the AI builds it atleast :)

They are awesome early units IMHO, they are good anti-barbs, decent rushers and easily deal with axes on open land. I don't tech HBR until either elephants or knights, make that cuirassiers if I have neither iron nor ivory. I wouldn't care if I was handicapped with not being able to build HAs at all, whilst chariots would be a serious handicap, simply because of their earlyness.

Also, their lifespan is longer on Epic/Marathon

My experience with Chariots: I make 'em if I have to. (That is, I need an offensive unit, or a fast unit, and have no other options...) Other than that, because I never seem to get the AI to attack with a stack of JUST axemen (and therefore never seem to be able to attack axemen with chariots, specifically) they don't get much use for me. There just seems to frequently be other, better options for military units depending on what I'm trying to do with my military and what resources/tech are available...

Of course, like so many things in this game, I can't say never - there's going to be times when I need an emergency fast unit for anti-barb patrol, or sense an opportunity to try a very early rush (though I'm not sure I remember actually making a chariot rush work for me!) or a few units to pick off single axemen...

So, I can't say 'no use' - we'll say 'limited use' for me.

Thats a good joke there.

Why dont we have a "mechanized chariot" now then?

Its called a Tank!

Reading this thread, the real question is:

What are horse archers for?

Anything a chariot can do a horse archer can do better.

I never use HA, thats mainly because I usually buy HBR ~the time I tech to cav.
Chariots are the units with the most possibilities to use.
They make good very early rush units.
They're great Settler escorts.
They're great fogbusters.
They're great medics.
They're cheap.
What do you want more?

Anything a chariot can do a horse archer can do better.

Except slaying axes (has been pointed out before). In case of a counterattack I'd rather have 30 hammers invested in str 8 than 50 hammers invested in str 6....

Never build Horse archers and like said before trade that tech much much later on. Will occasionally built elephants as they appear at a good time on normal speed but if not usually don't even build knight, curisars or cav, I beeline riflemen while evryone else is building mounted and then slaughter the lot...., an early rifle has no counter.

Also rarely build chariots and have never tried a rush with them though have considered it

True, assuming they don't counter attack with swords or bring along spears. Plus, depending on how quickly you approach HBR you are going to be dealing with crossbow and longbows on defense instead of archers. And, the actual combat for a chariot is 4 vs. 2.5 (61%) NOT 8 vs 5 (61%), not counting the defensive bonuses of the ax and promotions. With HA you get 6 vs 5 (54%). Without any promotions do you really want to be building specialized anti-ax units when HA are available and can handle, especially with flanking, pretty much any unit and have a good chance to survive.

None of your possibilities include offense and I agree that if you want a quick-strike force to supplement your offense (or replace it pre-catapults) you can take out quite a few flatland, low culture cities before the enemy has a chance to install too many defenses.

On defense, the HA, unlike the chariot, can flank catapults and trebuchets, and can deal with pretty much any unit guarding those catapults with a reasonable chance of survival and the chance to retreat away from the stack afterwards due to movement bonus and roads.

Hm... seems like most of you always quit a game if there's no copper around, do you?
And has noone ever played multiplayer before? They are the best against axe rushers.

Chariots are good pillagers and worker capturers.

That last point of mine wasn't that serious...

But keep in mind HA only do flank damage if they survive the attack (they need to win or retreat).
Of course, generally in battles HAs are 'better'. They come later, they require more techs, they're more expensive, they do flank damage, etc.

My main point was that the Chariot is a great unit. And the HA is not really required for the era it usually comes. There are better units then. But if you beeline HBR for HA, they're more useful but it's somewhat like founding an early religion: you delay teching economic techs to the benefit of a 'special' tech. A tech you found you strategy around. I think a HA war can be effective but I never did this. So, in most games, HAs aren't the dominant units of any war.

If two AI are very close a chariot rush that is levereged into a horse archer rush can usually decimate both of them, but past that maintainence would become a bear at that point of the game.

To me, the big advantage of them is that they are CHEAP!!

With flanking II, I have a reasonable chance that a chariot will survive any fight. I often use them to take out a defended unit that my army can't take without casualties. If I it survives, great I'll heal it up and send it out later. Meanwhile I send in one of my good units to clean up, get the XP, and get even better. If the chariot dies, oh well they are cheap:)

Chariots are good pillagers and worker capturers.

Bingo! And they are good for harassing an early enemy's lands keeping them in the dark ages until you can get a good enough stack together to take them out. You can stay out of their "danger zone" (causing them to build units when they might otherwise build settlers or workers), yet still get in and out to keep tabs on their city due to their 2 moves.

How about http://www.google.com/search?q=segway .

I don't think they would be much good in battle though. (unless... Segway vs. Hoveround?)

As has been mentioned, chariots are THE anti-axeman unit.

Heathen

Thats hilarious. Welcome to the forums!

I use 'em as medics. They're great for that. And I often have a few around for being able to rapidly respond to an incoming attack and/or barbarian activity. But I don't consider them to be a super-important unit -- if I don't have horses, I won't worry about it -- so long as I do have metal.

I prefer horse archer to chariots but thats just me.,

Reading this thread, the real question is:

What are horse archers for?

To make Mongolia worth playing. :lol:

A Sentry Chariot (Flanking I, Sentry) is very handy for an SOD.

Flanking II Chariots are great Archer-softeners, having 40% withdrawal chance and immunity to first strikes.

EDIT: nvm - didnt see above posters mentioning the promotions. No nitpicking for me here.

Wow, lots of responses on this one. :hatsoff: I'll consider all of your advice. I really just don't like leaving any element of the game untoutched. Know what I mean?

Wow, lots of responses on this one. :hatsoff: I'll consider all of your advice. I really just don't like leaving any element of the game untoutched. Know what I mean?

Nah, screw coorps.

It's the big problem of civilization if you ask me.

The game focuses so much on getting to the late stages that it forgets the good ones in the ancient times.

I always play world map and often get pissed off by this. If you're england the map is great because the faster technology goes the better your civ settles. Whereas countries like Egypt actually only pull through cause of their location. the world advances away from the ancient times way too fast.

I think the ages in the ancient times should be way slower and there should be a lot more things to do, people waged wars 2000bc, they didn't wait 3000 years so that they could get knights ;)

Try marathon. There you have lots of turns where you can do stuff.

Nah, screw coorps.

:hide:
Maybe I should have said "unconsidered." If something turns out to be no good, I won't bother. But I would like to make an informed descision. Thats what makes this forum so nice.