Serbian Rifleman requested by Partizanac.


http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/serbrifleman_LZl.jpg

Animations preview is not avalaible because I`ve lost the data, but the animations are the same as for the Russian Riflemen set.


Download Serbian Rifleman (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8350)

Love it. Just great.

Nice one! Partizanac is going to be really pleased :goodjob:

Very nice. A WWI era "Chetnik". Sweet.

You said you lost data, did something really bad happen to your comp? :eek:

Cool unit, but Serbia was not in the Autrian empire at the Civ3 rifleman era ?

Cool unit, but Serbia was not in the Autrian empire at the Civ3 rifleman era ?

No, sir. Bosnia, Croatia and Slovenia were part of Austria-Hungary, not Serbia. Remember Sarajevo, the casus belli for WWI? Serb nationalists assassinated the Austrian heir apparent, as they saw him as a threat to Serbia's efforts to unify all Balkan slavs under Serbian rule.

You said you lost data, did something really bad happen to your comp? :eek:

Pessimistic as always ;)

Great unit, Sandris. Keep em coming. :goodjob:

:woohoo:

:clap: I love it :goodjob:

Thanks a bunch dude! ;)

No, sir. Bosnia, Croatia and Slovenia were part of Austria-Hungary, not Serbia. Remember Sarajevo, the casus belli for WWI? Serb nationalists assassinated the Austrian heir apparent, as they saw him as a threat to Serbia's efforts to unify all Balkan slavs under Serbian rule.

Sorry, but thats not true... why would Serbia kill a heir and cause Austrians to hit them hard and lost 50% of its population? thats just a propaganda or as I should say its a German version of WWI
Please see who was involved in that organization, there were Serbs, Muslims and Croats called "Mlada Bosna" (Jung Bosnia). And the reason for his assassination were two!

1st is that the heir was a conqueror and he openly stated for many times that Austria-Hungary should conquer Serbia! that was the reason Serbia helped them in it!

2nd is that Bosnia and Croatia wanted independence even if that means making a united country with Serbs! as they did in Corfu agreement. The reason they didn't want to live in Austria-Hungary was the reason that Germans where germanizing those lands and everything slavic was fading away, they just didn't want to loose their way of living.

The assassination was an excuse for conquering Serbia ;) don't forget that Austria-Hungary was an Empire, and empires always expand ;) like they "annexed" Bosnia from Turkey

If Serbia assassinated the heir why did the Entente helped the mean little Serbia instead of the big and innocent Austria-Hungary

Very nice. A WWI era "Chetnik". Sweet.

Chetniks were paramilitary troops, this is a regular kings army unit :)

Very well done :)

-Oz

Sorry, but thats not true... why would Serbia kill a heir and cause Austrians to hit them hard and lost 50% of its population? thats just a propaganda or as I should say its a German version of WWI
Please see who was involved in that organization, there were Serbs, Muslims and Croats called "Mlada Bosna" (Jung Bosnia). And the reason for his assassination were two!

1st is that the heir was a conqueror and he openly stated for many times that Austria-Hungary should conquer Serbia! that was the reason Serbia helped them in it!

2nd is that Bosnia and Croatia wanted independence even if that means making a united country with Serbs! as they did in Corfu agreement. The reason they didn't want to live in Austria-Hungary was the reason that Germans where germanizing those lands and everything slavic was fading away, they just didn't want to loose their way of living.

The assassination was an excuse for conquering Serbia ;) don't forget that Austria-Hungary was an Empire, and empires always expand ;) like they "annexed" Bosnia from Turkey


Well, there's always two sides to a coin.

Regarding Franz Ferdinand, to call him a conqueror is factually wrong. It is also wrong that Austria-Hungary tried to Germanify Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia.

With the exception of Bosnia, those lands had been a part of the empire since the early 1700s. Their slavic identity remained very much intact. If there was any infringement, it was on part of the Hungarians.
Franz Ferdinand wanted to reform Austria-Hungary from a Dual to a Triple Monarchy, giving all slavic people equal political rights. Had he succeeded, this would have thwarted Serbia's plans to unify the Balkans under their rule, as the Croats and Bosnians would not have had any desire to secede.
Gavrilo Princip's dirty deed made that impossible and instead made the entire continent boil up in a fury of war...

Superb unit
Thanks

One man created so much tensions and forced everyone to war and he is a student? I don't think so... Franz Ferdinand was a mad man... there are reports from Belgian ambassador and Turkish too... they said "if this man comes to the throne, the was is inevitable!"

He had plans alright! to make Austria-Hungary bigger and more powerful! I repeat, why did the entente helped the mean old Serbs and attacked innocent Germans?
the WWII showed the Germans true faces...

One man created so much tensions and forced everyone to war and he is a student? I don't think so... Franz Ferdinand was a mad man... there are reports from Belgian ambassador and Turkish too... they said "if this man comes to the throne, the was is inevitable!"

He had plans alright! to make Austria-Hungary bigger and more powerful! I repeat, why did the entente helped the mean old Serbs and attacked innocent Germans?
the WWII showed the Germans true faces...

The reason why the entente sided with Serbia was, because Russia had an alliance with Serbia - the Russians viewed the Balkans as their sphere of influence and hence they supported pan-slavistic tendencies to oppose Austria-Hungary. The French and British had an alliance with Russia, the Germans had an alliance with Austria.

Serbia only had the guts to reject Austria's ultimatum to hand over the terrorists, because they knew Russia would back them, no matter what.

And so it began: Serbia rejects the ultimatum, Austria declares war on Serbia, Russia declares war on Austria, Germany declares war on Russia, France and England declare war on Germany and Austria: WWI!

- - - - - - -
Edit: I think this is enough OT stuff.

I ain't emotional I just give the facts and you give the stories... our world isn't a Civilization III game... so when Serbia rejected the ultimatum Russia didn't had to support Serbia... but as you said they they wanted influence in the Balkans thats true... But why would the GB and France fight a Russian war? its nothing to do with alliance.... its not a game, the French and English saw that Germans are expanding rapidly and they knew Russia and Serbia cant hold them back! so they too declared war! if they didn't and Austria conquers Serbia and Germany conquers European part of the Russia, do you think they would give the lands back to them? or keep them? I would go for the second option! I'm trying to explain to you that Germans were Conquerors! they wanted more and more land! you see Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia were not German or Hungarian lands they were just conquered! like Serbia was by the Ottomans. But all Conquests must come to the end!

I just can't stand and watch you writing here that Serbia is responsible for the WWI, I'm trying to explain that if there was no assassination the war would still happen, every country was ready for it and they were just waiting for an excuse... by writing the things you wrote, your offending me... you see, the WW1 was one of the most glorious parts in Serbian history! we had the guts to say NO to the oppressor and won 3 battles alone! and we did it many times before and after it, and we will do it again and again, all kind of conquerors came to take our lands, and we always say NO and we always win it back!

Partizanac, mutual defense alliances do work like that in the real world. Great Britain and France were obligated to go to war once Germany declared war on Russia. Had the Soviet Union attacked a NATO country in 1960s, do you think the other members of NATO would have refused to go to war? Of course not.

Yes, Great Britain and France were both concerned about German growth and that's why their alliance with Russia was formed with the idea of encircling Germany. I don't think TopGun was blaming the Serbs, simply stating that the assassination was the reason war began, that's not really something you can argue with. You can play "what-if" scenarios if you like, but the assassination of Franz Ferdinand did set off a chain of events that started the Great War.

Also, Sandris, yet another fantastic unit. Is it just me, or does this guy look like he could be used for a Civil War era Confederate at CIV scale?

What i mean is : The Civ3 Rifleman is not an WW1 unit. More a XIXe century one. Early century if you looke at the place on the board, late if you look at the uniform.

No, I was not blaming the Serbs for WWI.

But Serbia is by no means a peaceful, little nation. With the ascension of the Karadjordjevic dynasty, Serbia became increasingly belligerent and aggressive - and essentially ended centuries of Austrian-Serbian cooperation (Yes. Cooperation. Did you know that the Habsburgs asked Serbs to settle along the "military border", to form a peasant militia against the Turks? That is the reason why there were any Serbs in Slavonia and other parts of Croatia.)
Serbia, under the Karadjordjevici, itself became a conqueror. Need I mention the war of 1912-13? And later, under Milosevic, need I mention the wars of 1991-2001? Vukovar, Osijek, Srebrenica, Kosovo?

OK, so now I've done enough OT. ;)

Very cool, your riflemen are slowly but surely filling in the gaps.

What i mean is : The Civ3 Rifleman is not an WW1 unit. More a XIXe century one. Early century if you looke at the place on the board, late if you look at the uniform.

Yes, but Serbia used 19th century Riflemen in WW1 :)

No, I was not blaming the Serbs for WWI.

But Serbia is by no means a peaceful, little nation. With the ascension of the Karadjordjevic dynasty, Serbia became increasingly belligerent and aggressive - and essentially ended centuries of Austrian-Serbian cooperation (Yes. Cooperation. Did you know that the Habsburgs asked Serbs to settle along the "military border", to form a peasant militia against the Turks? That is the reason why there were any Serbs in Slavonia and other parts of Croatia.)
Serbia, under the Karadjodjevici, itself became a conqueror. Need I mention the war of 1912-13? And later, under Milosevic, need I mention the wars of 1991-2001? Vukovar, Osijek, Srebrenica, Kosovo?

Yes, thats what I was saying all a long... the assassination of Ferdinand was an excuse for war, but not the reason!

And please let us not go in to the Fall of Yugoslavia subject, cause that period is all messed up and there were crimes on all sides, neither was innocent, I only blame USA and NATO for that war, they could have stopped it if they really wanted it!
As for Kosovo... Kosovo was a disaster! I as a son of a policeman that was in Kosovo, can only make you imagine the situation like this:
Imagine you live in a country that was in communist regime for more than 50 years and in that time that regime made 2 autonomous provinces of your country... and in one province Muslim population has rapidly growing, and when the regime has fallen your president declares those provinces no more autonomous! and then the Muslim population in that region starts protesting massively but now not for Autonomy but Independence! then the president sends police troops to set peace there like other countries do in those situations! but when policemen arrived they didn't find protesters they found armed civilians with AK-47's and heavy guns! so many policemen died! do you know in USA when policemen dies how the government get ugly, well the same thing happened here so president sent Troops to defeat those armed civilians and bring them to justice! so when our tanks arrived there and defeated the armed civilians then came UN troops and stated that there was mass murdering there, and get this "mostly men" hah! so NATO bombards nor Milosevic or "his army" the NATO bombards Serbia! Serbian people... is that justice? I don't think so...

As for Slavonia, yes I agree and I know that Austria-Hungary let Serb migrators, who were fleeing the oppressing Turks, live in Vojvodina and Slavonia but to defend those lands from turks. Nice deal yeah? well not, they also sent very little food! so Serbs were dying of hunger...

Excellent job once again. I think this unit will find multiple uses in my personal mod.

Yes, but Serbia used 19th century Riflemen in WW1 :)



Yes, thats what I was saying all a long... the assassination of Ferdinand was an excuse for war, but not the reason!

And please let us not go in to the Fall of Yugoslavia subject, cause that period is all messed up and there were crimes on all sides, neither was innocent, I only blame USA and NATO for that war, they could have stopped it if they really wanted it!
As for Kosovo... Kosovo was a disaster! I as a son of a policeman that was in Kosovo, can only make you imagine the situation like this:
Imagine you live in a country that was in communist regime for more than 50 years and in that time that regime made 2 autonomous provinces of your country... and in one province Muslim population has rapidly growing, and when the regime has fallen your president declares those provinces no more autonomous! and then the Muslim population in that region starts protesting massively but now not for Autonomy but Independence! then the president sends police troops to set peace there like other countries do in those situations! but when policemen arrived they didn't find protesters they found armed civilians with AK-47's and heavy guns! so many policemen died! do you know in USA when policemen dies how the government get ugly, well the same thing happened here so president sent Troops to defeat those armed civilians and bring them to justice! so when our tanks arrived there and defeated the armed civilians then came UN troops and stated that there was mass murdering there, and get this "mostly men" hah! so NATO bombards nor Milosevic or "his army" the NATO bombards Serbia! Serbian people... is that justice? I don't think so...

As for Slavonia, yes I agree and I know that Austria-Hungary let Serb migrators, who were fleeing the oppressing Turks, live in Vojvodina and Slavonia but to defend those lands from turks. Nice deal yeah? well not, they also sent very little food! so Serbs were dying of hunger...

I agree with you Partizanac, I've heard things that what NATO and the US portrays happened in Yugoslavia wasn't the entire picture..

`kay, first of all this is a great unit.

2nd of all, the germanisation of Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia was very real, no matter how strong the slavic identity was, the germanisation was consistent and opressing.

3rd - any reasonable man will confirm that the assassination was an excuse, not the reason

4th - Yes, the serbs populated the borders to form a militia, thats why there were so many of them in Croatia, populating the area bordering the Remains of the Remains.

5th - I have strong family ties in Serbia, and NATO hit them really hard. They bombed the serbian people, allright.

6th - I had to post all this here, but I also have to suggest that if anyone wants to continue, we should move it to OT.

Yes please, move the historical-political discussion... the unit is very very cool it doesn't deserve a fight...

Let me set the record straight with facts. I just got done teaching my American History Class about World War I and me being a History Teacher must clarify this discussion. This is what is taught in US High Schools so use this unit to shot the US government and not me......

Serbia was an individual country that wanted to nationalize and annex the province of Bosnia in southern Austria-Hungry. Reason for this is that the Austria-Hungry province of Bosnia had a lot of Serbian Nationals. The Arch Duke went down to Sarajevo to smooth some feathers and to tell the Serbs living under Austria-Hungry rule that he would be a good leader. A terrorist group by the name of Black Hand (who was NOT under the direction of the Serbian government) killed the Arch Duke in a effort to force a seceesion from the Austria-Hungry Empire. Austria saw an opportunity to blame Serbia for the attack and declared war a month later. Russia had interests in the Balkan and declared war on Austria-Hungry. Germany declared war on Russia due to alliance with Austria Hungry. Germany also knew that France was allied with Russia and so declared war on France FIRST to surprise them before they could mobilize their troops. Germany marched through neutral Belgium which Great Britain gurenteed Independence through the London Treaty and declared war on Germany. This is how WWI started.

You may now send out the little Serbian Rifleman, who is btw a great unit, to shoot the person who makes US textbooks

:lol: :lol: That last comment was funny Sum.....

:lol: Black Hand? :lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip

Black Hand assassinated King Alexander Obrenovic there for killing the last Obrenovic male and ending its family tree!

And please let us not go in to the Fall of Yugoslavia subject, cause that period is all messed up and there were crimes on all sides, neither was innocent, I only blame USA and NATO for that war, they could have stopped it if they really wanted it!
Ahhh yes, when in doubt blame the greedy, imperialism driven, capitalist pigs in the United States..... :shake:

Funny, whenever we don't send troops in, people say they want us. But as soon as we're there, they want us to get the hell out. Blaming us for being more isolationist.

As for Kosovo... Kosovo was a disaster! I as a son of a policeman that was in Kosovo, can only make you imagine the situation like this:
Imagine you live in a country that was in communist regime for more than 50 years and in that time that regime made 2 autonomous provinces of your country... and in one province Muslim population has rapidly growing, and when the regime has fallen your president declares those provinces no more autonomous! and then the Muslim population in that region starts protesting massively but now not for Autonomy but Independence! then the president sends police troops to set peace there like other countries do in those situations! but when policemen arrived they didn't find protesters they found armed civilians with AK-47's and heavy guns! so many policemen died!
I agree that it was a very crappy (would use other words, but I'd probably get banned) situation.

do you know in USA when policemen dies how the government get ugly, well the same thing happened here so president sent Troops to defeat those armed civilians and bring them to justice!
Hmmm, apparently there is still a lot of negative propaganda over there. If a cop gets killed, we don't shake down every person of a particular group that we think did it.

so when our tanks arrived there and defeated the armed civilians then came UN troops and stated that there was mass murdering there, and get this "mostly men" hah! so NATO bombards nor Milosevic or "his army" the NATO bombards Serbia! Serbian people... is that justice? I don't think so...
"Then came UN troops and stated that there was mass murdering there, and get this mostly men...." Did you just deny and agree that there was mass murder?

But is that justice? No, I don't think so. Bombing a nations people for something the people didn't want or were even aware of isn't right.


Seeing as how we are both very steadfast in the defense of our nations, shall we agree to disagree?

-----------------------------------------------

Great unit Sandris. I think it could be useful in many areas.

@ sum: I don't rely on hardly any of the history or social studies I learned in high school. I research things for myself.

Funny, whenever we don't send troops in, people say they want us. But as soon as we're there, they want us to get the hell out. Blaming us for being more isolationist.

Who said anything about sending troops? USA could just give a personal threat to every nations president, that they will get sanctions if they start fighting and everything would be OK!

Sanctions rarely work to the desired effect.

You guys are both overly nationalistic. U.S couldn't of stopped the war. But handled what they did wrong ok.

Who said anything about sending troops? USA could just give a personal threat to every nations president, that they will get sanctions if they start fighting and everything would be OK!

Put sanctions on which nations in particular?

Serbia would also have gotten some, at least to some degree I'd imagine. The situation could have been handled a lot better, but it's easy to say "should've done this, should've done that" now that the whole situation is over (there was a great quote about hindsight, but I can't remember how it goes).

Clinton also didn't have the spine for such things.

Ah, the Balkans: bringing out the best in everybody!

The Balkans: Powder Keg of Europe and of this thread
Send in the Serbian Infantry...it will settle this dispute

Clinton also didn't have the spine for such things.

Amen to that. The US reaction was at least 6 years too late. A disgrace.

Amen to that. The US reaction was at least 6 years too late. A disgrace.

If there is no Economic gain to be had, we wont help...sorry...Did you actually think that the US steps in for Morality's sake??

When US does send troops, they often make matters worse.

When we send troops without a clear idea of what we want to achieve, the we make matters worse. And our goals always need to include what's to happen after the battle has been won.
The best example for when we had a plan was WWII. The unconditional defeat and subsequent democratization of Germany is a success story... even though the objective of democratization was formed due to Cold War pressures.

do you hear your self? democratization? the words that ends with "ization" are assimilation processes...

Why should Serbia be like USA? maybe we like it this way? :hmm:

USA is doing what Nazi Germany and Communist USSR did... they assimilate countries to their way of living and their rule! don't forget that real democracy was founded in ancient Greece, did once mighty Greek assimilated their neighboring countries to live in democracy? its funny that ancient Greece was more democratic than the "DEMOCRATIC" world today...

When we send troops without a clear idea of what we want to achieve, the we make matters worse. And our goals always need to include what's to happen after the battle has been won.
The best example for when we had a plan was WWII. The unconditional defeat and subsequent democratization of Germany is a success story... even though the objective of democratization was formed due to Cold War pressures.
That was a major success story.

do you hear your self? democratization? the words that ends with "ization" are assimilation processes...
Assimilation implies that we are attacking, conquering, and making it a part of our nation. But if you haven't noticed, Germany isn't the 51st state ;)

Why should Serbia be like USA? maybe we like it this way? :hmm:

USA is doing what Nazi Germany and Communist USSR did... they assimilate countries to their way of living and their rule! don't forget that real democracy was founded in ancient Greece, did once mighty Greek assimilated their neighboring countries to live in democracy? its funny that ancient Greece was more democratic than the "DEMOCRATIC" world today...
We don't "assimilate countries", we remove guys like Hitler, and show them our way of doing things. We did that with Germany, and they went from devastated warzone to one of the biggest players in Europe today. Athens did take up the spear to assimilate (with the correct definition) other areas.

By the 6th century BC several cities had emerged as dominant in Greek affairs: Athens, Sparta, Corinth, and Thebes. Each of them had brought the surrounding rural areas and smaller towns under their control, and Athens and Corinth had become major maritime and mercantile powers as well. Athens and Sparta developed a rivalry that dominated Greek politics for generations.

You might also say they were Imperialistic as well, as they had established colonies all around the Mediterranean and Black Seas. After the Persians captued the Ionian colonies, Athens even supported a rebellion there (could be considered subversion), in effect starting the Persian invasions. So history doesn't necessarily confirm your statements.

Oh, the United States (along with many European nations) are Republics, not a democracies. Yes there is a difference. Though technically some could be considered Socialist states. Socialism and Communism are also different.

I for one am really tired of the OT political discourse. Enough with the jingoism already. Most of us look to this thread & the others like it for Sandris' wonderful units. Please, please, take this to the OT forum before Plotinus spanks us all.

I for one am really tired of the OT political discourse. Enough with the jingoism already. Most of us look to this thread & the others like it for Sandris' wonderful units. Please, please, take this to the OT forum before Plotinus spanks us all.
It would go better to the History forums. I find OT to be rather tedious, predictable, monotonous and mindless. Intelligent dialogues are few and far between there.

Again, great unit Sandris!! Hopefully many more to come!

It would go better to the History forums. I find OT to be rather tedious, predictable, monotonous and mindless. Intelligent dialogues are few and far between there.

Again, great unit Sandris!! Hopefully many more to come!Right On! We can now hijack this thread for at least another couple of pages to argue about where to move the argument.
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/2338/stitchheadbanganimod2.gif

B_M you are so cute :) And now, Plotinus, if you please...

Nice unit... Any plans to do a WWII/early cold-war Yugoslav infantry (armed with a 59/66 SKS... A fine rifle, I might add)?

Yes, but Serbia used 19th century Riflemen in WW1 :)


Interestingly enough, so were the French... At the beginning of the war, they were still using the old uniform with red Kepi hat, blue jacket and red trousers... Heck, they even had ZUOVE units during WWI :lol: (speaking of which, Sandris, if you were to make a French/US Civil War Zuove rifleman, I'll personally send you a dozen of my mom's home-made chocolate-chip cookies the next time she makes some!)

Right On! We can now hijack this thread for at least another couple of pages to argue about where to move the argument.
Nah, we (or I) can stop my trolling with yours.

USA is doing what Nazi Germany and Communist USSR did... they assimilate countries to their way of living and their rule! don't forget that real democracy was founded in ancient Greece, did once mighty Greek assimilated their neighboring countries to live in democracy? its funny that ancient Greece was more democratic than the "DEMOCRATIC" world today...

Not really a relevant comparison. Greek democracy wasn't like modern day democracy. So I guess since they invented it their governments were more democratic like. Nobody was allowed to vote except for well to males. I agree the current wars aren't what they say they are however.

Enough with the political/historical/OT discussion!

Take it to the History forum.

You know a discussion is going to achieve nothing when people are talking about eighty-year-old events in the first person plural...

Interestingly enough, so were the French... At the beginning of the war, they were still using the old uniform with red Kepi hat, blue jacket and red trousers... Heck, they even had ZUOVE units during WWI :lol: (speaking of which, Sandris, if you were to make a French/US Civil War Zuove rifleman, I'll personally send you a dozen of my mom's home-made chocolate-chip cookies the next time she makes some!)For sure a ZOUAVE unit would be welcome. BTW in modern French (at least in the 60's) the word means "person acting silly, in a funny way"... that means a lot :D About a US civil war one I have some pics of them (various versions).

And can you imagine those poor old Serbian riflemen outnumbered against mighty Empire of Austria-Hungary?
and they still won the first two major battles! :D

Battle of Cer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cer)
Battle of Kolubara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kolubara)

and then they called up for German troops and Bulgarian so Serbia fell!

You know a discussion is going to achieve nothing when people are talking about eighty-year-old events in the first person plural...
I was speaking of the present, not the First World War when I used that first person plural.
Nah, we (or I) can stop my trolling with yours.
---------------------------------

On topic note:
Sandris, you said that the animations were the same as the Russian riflemen set. Both the rifle and bayonet thrust attacks I'm assuming?

Very good man!

Wonderful unit! :eek:

And can you imagine those poor old Serbian riflemen outnumbered against mighty Empire of Austria-Hungary?
and they still won the first two major battles! :D

Battle of Cer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cer)
Battle of Kolubara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kolubara)

and then they called up for German troops and Bulgarian so Serbia fell!


Yes, it's a plain truth. Serbian troops in 1914-1915 have been temporarily liberated part of Austrian Bosnia.

И еще. Partizanac, в России все знают. Мы, как обычно, с Вами, друже. Держитесь. :ninja: