Greetings and good day!
I recently read my articles on city spec, and I'm doing pretty well with it. Any how sometimes in my commerce or science cities I will run out of commerce or science related buildings. What would you recomend I build then? Units, try for a wonder, research, wealth?

Thanks for all the future replies!

You can never have too many units.

I'm assuming that if it's a commerce city that's specialized, it doesn't have too much in the way of production, so you probably won't win too many wonder races. And just remember, when buildin wealth/science/culture, your hammer bonuses apply, not whatever bonuses you might have in that resource.

Greetings and good day!
I recently read my articles on city spec, and I'm doing pretty well with it. Any how sometimes in my commerce or science cities I will run out of commerce or science related buildings. What would you recomend I build then? Units, try for a wonder, research, wealth?

Thanks for all the future replies!

I'd generally recommend units because it seems that many people underproduce those. Even if they don't have many promotions, you can use the units produced as garrison troops (or build units that don't need promotions, like Spies or Missionaries).

A wonder isn't always a good bet in a commerce city because the generally low hammer output of commerce cities means an AI might build it first.

Temples will probably keep you busy for a while. If you don't have Scientific Method, then monasteries are also good to boost scientific research.

The more religions you have in a city, the more buildings you can build...

Research/Wealth is probably not the best choice since all those shiny buildings do not work in those cases. I would recommend barracks and then garrison troops (CG promotion eligible). Spies/Workers/Settlers are also good choices and do not "require" that you first build barracks.

Wonders, not so much since you are basically building wealth as you will probably not complete a wonder in a specialized commerce city before the AI (unless you have a huge tech lead).

I would be curious what buildings you haven't built at the time you've decided that you have run out of commerce buildings to build. Keep in mind that specialization is more about the people working the land and the improvements than the buildings, especially since many buildings are multi-purpose (i.e., have health/happy benefits that even a non-commerce city can use). All cities need production and all cities bring in some commerce. Military, while you want to focus a few main cities on producing the bulk of your troops, having the ability to quickly whip (draft) a unit with 5 (2) XP for an immediate promotion or two and to supplement your garrisons while the main cities produce troops for the war can be extremely helpful.

If you are warring, just make anti-war weariness stuff.

Science buildings are an option when running CE too. After all, they just multiply the commerce you're already using for gold. If not running CE, just make units as already suggested. It's hard to have too many units, especially updated ones.

This is a good problem to have.

That has happened to me before and I agree either buidings you think you dont need but might come in handy, or units.

Often I dont see the need for monasteries since I run OR for a while until switching to Free Religion, although, you can surely use the 10% sience , and getting ready for when you either pull the switch to Free Religion or Sci Meth, since otherwise you may accidentaly exterminate your own religious spread for the late game.

So if happy/health/sci/commerce buidings ran out, build monasteries, if you already have those, worker/settler/spy/missionary is the way to go.

If you run out of buildings at lot, it's a sign that you are working too many mines and not enough cottages. ;)

In that situation I usually build Workers, or units that don't need promotions out of the gate (e.g. city defenders, spies.)

If you run out of buildings at lot, it's a sign that you are working too many mines and not enough cottages. ;)

so true!
before universal suffrage, a real commerce city will have 1hpt. you won't get loads of buildings in there.

so true!
before universal suffrage, a real commerce city will have 1hpt. you won't get loads of buildings in there.

I hope you don't really believe Dave's propaganda :D It's nonsense ! :mischief:

It is easy to show that a city with only one hammer (pure grassland cut out of the jungle, perhaps ?) is better off building a few farms rather than exclusively cottages. It will depend on the amount of surplus food the city has and its size but for instance at size 10 a surplus of 4 food is worth 6 hammers under Slavery and that far outweighs the pathetic 1 hammer from the city tile. A few buildings are really worthwhile in a "pure commerce" city like granary and courthouse making it much more efficient and cost effective. A few others like forge and market can increase the size of the city in the middle game and obviously a size 16 city (with forge and market and grocer etc ) working 12 cottages and 4 farms is better than a size 12 city (with only 1 hammer and still building a couthouse :lol: ) working 12 cottages.

The real point to appreciate and which Dave often misses is that once you get to say 10 cottages adding another cottage is at best a 10% increase in output (after 70 turns) while adding a library is a 25% increase in beakers (immediately and for all time). So as the amount of commerce is increased so the value of those multipliers increases. Therefore a mixture of farms and cottages in a low production city is better than a pure cottage solution. The crossover point where it is better to have another farm rather than a cottage will depend on the exact details of the food surplus, the technologies and what happiness and health resources are available.

I wouldn't recommend running a 2f 1h commerce city if you have a choice of including some food/production tiles.

But when dealing with newbies, it's always good to emphasize cottages.

I wouldn't recommend running a 2f 1h commerce city if you have a choice of including some food/production tiles.

But when dealing with newbies, it's always good to emphasize cottages.

Just settle the areas with good resources, mine the stuff that can be mined and cottage what you have food to support, no?

Then just build buildings that specialize the city accordingly...science/money type stuff.

I thought it was hard at first but when running a CE it really isn't. A production city here and there for military spam, a GP farm somewhere with ridiculous food, and the rest either secondary production cities or commerce (mostly commerce) depending on terrain. It makes sense then to just build the buildings that multiply either commerce or hammers. If you run out, then military units or wealth/research/wonders depending on situation (when I'm warring it winds up being wealth usually).

I find it interesting that the key ingredient for all city types is food. To work cottages, you need enough food. To work mines/workshops/whatever, you also need enough food. That or just grab GLH/Colossus and spam coastal cities, I guess.

Usually when I ran into this problem I would go ahead and build a base amount of building types. Although this is probably not the most efficient thing, I found it made my civ better, game better, and I had more realistic cities.

In my economic cities I will build all of the economic buildings along with the basic science and production buildings. If I then run out of things to build I will build missionaries, explorers, or wealth. Usually by the time I have all the buildings in the city, I'm not building the other stuff for too long.

I will generally not build units in the city, because I don't need them, they are too weak, and they cost money that could be better used. In the end if I'm forced to build units out of an economic city I just disband them after construction.

You know my commerce cities usually have a few hammers, as many of them are situated near gold, silver or gems which I then mine. If I am understanding the posters above me correctly, the commerce from a gold mine is NOT going to be multiplied by commerce buildings? Also, I do try to get at least one food resource near a commerce city to allow faster growth. When I am approaching my health or happiness caps, I usually convert that extra food to a merchant or maybe a priest specialist. So now is the commerce generated by the specialist ALSO not being multiplied by the banks, etc? I must be going about my commerce cities all wrong... I tend to aim for a mixture of tiles with one precious metal, a farm/pasture/fishing boat (or two), and everything else riverside cottages, and over time I transition a merchant or two in once the city is as big as it can comfortably grow. From what it sounds like, I should just look for pure cottages... which then MUST be on grassland if they are to feed themselves, or have plains evenly matched with floodplain tiles... otherwise the workers will starve.

*sigh* Here I thought I was making progress with my city specialization... :sad:

You know my commerce cities usually have a few hammers, as many of them are situated near gold, silver or gems which I then mine. If I am understanding the posters above me correctly, the commerce from a gold mine is NOT going to be multiplied by commerce buildings? Also, I do try to get at least one food resource near a commerce city to allow faster growth. When I am approaching my health or happiness caps, I usually convert that extra food to a merchant or maybe a priest specialist. So now is the commerce generated by the specialist ALSO not being multiplied by the banks, etc? I must be going about my commerce cities all wrong... I tend to aim for a mixture of tiles with one precious metal, a farm/pasture/fishing boat (or two), and everything else riverside cottages, and over time I transition a merchant or two in once the city is as big as it can comfortably grow. From what it sounds like, I should just look for pure cottages... which then MUST be on grassland if they are to feed themselves, or have plains evenly matched with floodplain tiles... otherwise the workers will starve.

*sigh* Here I thought I was making progress with my city specialization... :sad:

If you have good food (and commerce cities need enough to actually work those cottages), the city will grow fast at first. Crack the whip for necessary buildings (and buy them later). I'd at least put granaries/courthouse/market in cities like this, as these tend to be whipped easily enough quickly and offer nice returns. Unhappy pop is useless too, so take that into account especially before HR.

If I am understanding the posters above me correctly, the commerce from a gold mine is NOT going to be multiplied by commerce buildings? Also, I do try to get at least one food resource near a commerce city to allow faster growth. When I am approaching my health or happiness caps, I usually convert that extra food to a merchant or maybe a priest specialist. So now is the commerce generated by the specialist ALSO not being multiplied by the banks, etc?

First, confirm you understand the difference between gold and commerce.

Second, you mis-understood the above posters. Any commerce that goes through the sliders (i.e., is converted from raw commerce to gold/science/etc) also is multiplied by the appropriate buildings (banks for gold, libraries for science, etc). This includes commerce generated by working tiles (cottages, gold mines, etc) and commerce from trade routes.

Converting hammers directly into gold/science/etc, causes those hammers go through the forge/factory/etc and then directly into gold/science/culture. Since it does not pass through the slider it does not get affected by banks/libs/etc. Now, specialists directly produce gold/beakers/etc, and those beakers DO get multiplied by banks/libs/etc.

It is really a balance issue, since hammers get multiplied by the forge, they don't also get multiplied by the bank. However, since specialist output is fixed, those do get multiplied.

Ahh, I think I understand that better now. So a heavily cottaged (IE: commerce) city is also typically a good science city, assuming you are running your science slider > 50%. That seems odd though, it would be nice if I could have one city that was just cranking out the coin irregardless of the sliders, and another for science. In a typical REX scenario I find I have my science slider around halfway so to get the most out of my cottage/goldmine cities I'll need to build BOTH banks/markets/grocers and libraries/universities/observatories in that city.

so true!
before universal suffrage, a real commerce city will have 1hpt. you won't get loads of buildings in there.

Maybe I'm odd but I usually like to have a few mines in my major commerce city at least until Windmills get the extra hammer and I've finished Wall Street / Oxford. Way too hard for me to get everything built fast enough without at least 2 mines being worked. I also prioritize forges in my commerce cities before grocers, banks, or universities for the happiness boost and hammers to get those buildings online faster.

Ahh, I think I understand that better now. So a heavily cottaged (IE: commerce) city is also typically a good science city, assuming you are running your science slider > 50%. That seems odd though, it would be nice if I could have one city that was just cranking out the coin irregardless of the sliders, and another for science. In a typical REX scenario I find I have my science slider around halfway so to get the most out of my cottage/goldmine cities I'll need to build BOTH banks/markets/grocers and libraries/universities/observatories in that city.

There are several non-commerce sources of gold.

Holy Shrine
Merchant/Priest Specialists
Settled Great Merchants/Prophets/Artists

Combining all three of them in the Wall Street city gives enough gold to run a medium-size empire at 100% science.

Build units start killing other civs (L)