Well, it's not new (since Germany, China, America and even Inca routinely build spaceship parts and even launch), but I wonder if it's possible to win the space victory with certain poor production civs like Maya, Khmer, and Mali. (Of course I'm talking about Monarch, since Viceroy is too easy and Emperor impossible)

Has anybody done any of these civs?

I havnt done a spaceship victory but I did get a highly productive Mali once by building watermills on the floodplain...

I haven't started yet, but here's my Malian strategy:

1. Grow those towns near Timbuktu and hope for mega-production with Universal Suffrage
2. Get to Communism first and build the Kremlin and then buy my infrastructure and once I have enough tech lead switch to communism to support my farflung empire
3. Colonize Zimbabwe (good for production) and Brazil (has oil and iron) first (i.e. beat the Dutch and Portuguese)
4. Get biology/medicine soon to avoid those damn plagues!
5. Get Forest Preserves and National Park in central Congo
6. Absolutely no war and no state religion for good trade relationships (nobody wants Malian land anyway)

I've always gone for the UHV with Mali so maybe Mali's financial power will come in handy for good science rates.

Let's get it started. Post a starting save, so we all have the same basicss

You can start with any save. I'm in the 1820's with most of Africa colonized and Egypt as my vassal, but I still stuck in the pre-physics age, while France has already gotten industrialism. Aztecs and Incans are both at least 6 techs ahead of me thanks to being vassals of France and Spain at one time. Fairly impossible until you hit the $1 / tech time when somebody else builds the internet...
And there's the freaking expansion/economy sinkhole that is called Africa. I've collapsed 5 times already despite numerous courthouses, markets, grocers, commonwealth, etc.

I'm generating my start now. I'll post it later, so everyone can share his fate. 3000BC unlocked start, latest version

as announced

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/41379/Mansa_Musa_Medieval_Age_Turn_189.CivBeyondSwordSav e

farewell

Why 3000 BC? More people to peddle Divine Right with? :)

and less land since the better carthaginian coast is already taken. 600ad is easier

Yeah, it looks bleak. Already 2nd move I meet Hannibal and he demands Theology from me. Spain won't trade machinery for Divine Right. Ethiopia is dead. You'll be my hero if you can pull this off.
I think Khmer has a much better chance of doing it with no barbs/impis and Australia wide open for colonization, plus a money-producing Patna next door. Even Maya will do better since central NA has all those resources and Maya has time. Both Khmer and Maya can get their golden age without punitive consequences on science.

the first plague hit me pretty hard, with almost every single one of my few cities down to size 1, timbuktu included... Behind everyone, I just need a miracle since the next plague has started and I'll catch it in a matter of turns... I don't believe in miracles, btw.

Update: 1751.

France is running, I lag. Still haven't got liberalism. I just founded a city in Australia (for aluminium) and I've a settler waiting nearby. He will become a city with liberalism, just before the commonwealth switch. 4 cities in Malinese core area, one in Congo, 2 in South Africa and one for the uranium in Madagascar. First congress without problems (and invite...). I should have all the useful strategic resources, except horses, marble and stone (but I don't need them). Pretty much everyone (including me) follows the Islam and those 4 hammers from the AP are saving my ass. Two great people so far, engineers, settled in the capital. I believe I won't win this game

My Khmer game is going much better in 1780. Got my Golden Age in 1455. I'm top in score (Germany, Netherlands, China having collapsed), and only tech I don't have is Communism. I am 2 moves from Biology, have 4 cities in Australia, Delhi just flipped to me. Only problem is I'm unstable due to continued slavery despite Democracy, but without slavery I cannot possibly get some useful cities from Padang and my Jayakarta (still building Opera House). Maybe after Biology I can seriously chop some jungle and build workshops all over Indonesia. I think barring India or China taking some lucrative cities from me, I should win the space race.

Yes, I think Khmer is very doable. In fact, other than Japan, there's no other civ that can expand to Australia which can be very productive. Trick is to get biology very early, and build both the Space Elevator and Internet.

Note the East vs. West alliance World War 3. I almost lost it to Isabella with her diplomatic votes (even though I built the UN) because almost all the Europeans voted for her. If Portugal and England weren't collapsed when the votes happened I would have lost.

Even without trying, I had 23% Buddhism due to my population.

Note the Great Barrier Fort in Australia Reef. Built by workers who had nothing else to do in the Australian desert. Viewable from space. :)

1. Need to vassalize (not kill) Aztecs soon after they spawn by dint of my superior tech and culture. They will provide much needed happiness since I don't have religion early.
2. Research path: sailing/math/calendar, then beeline for gunpowder (to kill, not defend, dog soldiers), guilds and optics (to reach Europeans first)
3. Build 6 cities in NA (Seattle, Los Angeles, Denver, Grand Rapids, Chicago, New Orleans) to deny them to America who may even vassalize to me with my vast territories (at least they've done so before when I was Aztec). From my Khmer experience I need at least 6 good cities (Delhi,Patna,Hanoi, 2 cities in Australia and New Zealand, and Bangkok), one south enough to build the Space Elevator, one quick enough to build Internet. I think there's uranium and aluminum in NA so I don't have to go to Australia for it.
4. Get 1 city in South America (Caracas) to get an extra oil, but no more due to expansion instability
5. Convert to Christianity ASAP but if not, get liberalism soon
6. NOT build the temple of Kulkulkan to avoid winning the UHV, but get my GA in 1735

Any other thoughts?

Maya got plenty of useful places to settle, it should not be too hard. Just be everyone's . .. .. .. .. . and make sure to hook up some aluminium, I don't remember where it can be found in the Americas.

My Malinese game is proceeding better than I thought, I believe I'll be able to launch. The levees made the day

This all sounds really fun! I may have to give it a go :)

I aborted the game due to stupid mistakes. The next start will be the victorious one, I'll post the save as soon as it's generated

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/41379/Mansa_Musa_Medieval_Age_Turn_189.Civ

Ok, so I decided to have a go at this with the Mayans. However, this is my first non-UHV attempt and I'm not sure how well I'm doing. How do you overcome the massive tech advantages the Europeans have? It's currently 1820 and I'm way, way behind on both tech and score (third from bottom in score). I have no techs I can trade for anything (and never did, really), and the Pentagon and Kremlin were built some time ago (1770s). Advice anyone?

On an unrelated note, RAGE against that bloody economy rating!!! Predictably it started declining in around the 13th century or so and despite spamming windmills and frantically building as many money buildings as I can it's never been higher than two stars again and has consistently kept me in Unstable for hundreds of years now. Of course I'd probably be fine except I've been hit by the effects of TWO Great Depressions despite running Mercantilism and not even having contact with the civs in question! :mad:
I've also been hit by two plagues... is this a bug? I thought the Americans were only supposed to get one.

Ok, so I decided to have a go at this with the Mayans. However, this is my first non-UHV attempt and I'm not sure how well I'm doing. How do you overcome the massive tech advantages the Europeans have? It's currently 1820 and I'm way, way behind on both tech and score (third from bottom in score). I have no techs I can trade for anything (and never did, really), and the Pentagon and Kremlin were built some time ago (1770s). Advice anyone?

On an unrelated note, RAGE against that bloody economy rating!!! Predictably it started declining in around the 13th century or so and despite spamming windmills and frantically building as many money buildings as I can it's never been higher than two stars again and has consistently kept me in Unstable for hundreds of years now. Of course I'd probably be fine except I've been hit by the effects of TWO Great Depressions despite running Mercantilism and not even having contact with the civs in question! :mad:
I've also been hit by two plagues... is this a bug? I thought the Americans were only supposed to get one.

I had the same problems. Did an overexpansion too quickly in the 1600's and had to endure getting astronomy in 15 turns! I did finally catch up in the 1800's: the key is to get Biology and Medicine first and trade it to everybody else since the AI prioritizes production and military techs. I'm now first in score as the Mayans in 1900 (1st in population, production and GNP) but still behind the Europeans in tech by 3-4. Surprisingly the Russians are very advanced (probably thanks to the earlier research institutes) and they might very well beat me since they're chummy with the Germans. I don't have great hopes to build the Internet since I don't even have radio yet...:mad:

Try to build some farms too (agriculture also counts in your economy).

I vassalized Aztecs and Incans early so my happiness wasn't an issue, and I traded most of their resources to one or two of mine (which helps with economy).

I also have Trading Company, Free Market. I'm first in gold now. :lol:

I finally did it, purely by luck (see below).:p

Started out with Oaxaca and sent 2nd settler to New Orleans (just beyond flip zone for Aztecs). Of course that means lots of experience fighting dog soldiers. Almost didn't get Calendar in time (made the mistake of researching bronze working before calendar). Then it's land grab (filling the whole NA by 1700 before America spawns). I stalled with trying to get Astronomy in the 1600's due to the size of my empire but I sat it out, and with Aztecs and Incans being vassals I directed them to research what I needed together with the occasional begging for money.

America spawns--gave them a useless island which became their capital, but unfortunately they vassalized to Spain. Then there were 5 or 6 world wars (with France, me and my vassals, Germany, Netherlands, Russia, Mali on one side and Britain, Spain, America, Turkey on the other) which I did not participate directly, thanks to the distance between me and everybody else. I did sink some destroyers.

Beelined for biology, medicine, and computers. The AI seems to neglect the importance of the Internet which gave me 9 free techs!!

Russia seems to neglect Siberia completely in 1.18 and just built 8 core cities which are super productive. It became a tech powerhouse and almost built the damn spaceship (they actually researched Fusion first in the 1960's and built everything except for the engines), but stupid Stalin must have switched civics from hereditary rule because he collapsed in 1976. Nobody by then had my techs and production power and I launched in 1992. Mongolia overtook me in score (because he had Turkey as a vassal) though. :mad:

I almost got voted a diplomatic victory (if Russia didn't collapse I would have needed just 100 more votes from somebody).

Just tried the Maya, Rhye really made the UP must less effective.

Nice one, Pacifist. I've given up on my Maya game - after I finally researched Scientific Method in 1850 odd and saw that Biology was going to take 24 turns! My empire was somewhat less massive than yours :lol:

I am going to start again with a much less lofty goal - launch a spaceship as the Dutch :)

America spawns--gave them a useless island which became their capital, but unfortunately they vassalized to Spain.

Is this really necessary? I don't like doing things like this, it's far too much of an exploit of the mechanics for my liking (plus, looks like Rhye is going to nerf it next patch anyway).

Is this really necessary? I don't like doing things like this, it's far too much of an exploit of the mechanics for my liking (plus, looks like Rhye is going to nerf it next patch anyway).

It's actually quite important since Washington's culture is rather massive and takes out my iron, stone and 2 coals. And then they can send their 4 settlers to found 2 cities in the Carolinas/Florida (while right now I had enough culture to block them). Also, if I didn't have good relationships with them from the start they would have annihilated my longbowmen with their riflemen (negative 4 from close borders).
PLUS I wouldn't have gotten Washington handed to me in a congress if it was a capital. :lol:

Has anybody noticed how close-minded George Washington is whenever America spawns? No automatic open borders, extortionist tech trades, often mercantilistic and slave-owning.

I am going to start again with a much less lofty goal - launch a spaceship as the Dutch :)


The Dutch are probably the most powerful "small" civ. Their dikes are like Moai Statues for each city plus the river hammers. I'm almost finished building the spaceship with them. Had a really lucky start when Frankfurt was razed by the French and not rebuilt. So I was able to build a new Frankfurt and it was the key to collapsing Germany due to my culture (I built Notre Dame there). The new Germany AI always builds Hamburg which leads to their downfall every time. The fact that now optics needs guilds is good for the Dutch since they start out with it, so everybody is lagging in exploring (well, maybe excepting the Portuguese, but they spawn too late). I then proceeded to conquer half the world (America, northern SA, all of Aztec land but they respawned, southern Africa, my only city in Australia, and all of Europe except for England). I have at various times for vassals England, Inca, Portuguese, Persia (the Portuguese collapsed due to my culture in Spain). I'm building spaceship parts in 2-4 turns each (also had the space elevator). My Frankfurt is pulling over 300 hammers each turn!!:lol:

Correction: Frankfurt ('s-Gravenhage) had 460 hammers per turn.

OK, so the Greeks aren't really poor in production, the real problem is that they don't have enough space to expand, being hemmed in by the Romans, Germans, Russians and later the Turks (really annoying). You need at least 7-8 good cities to build a spaceship in time. Athens, one city in the Balkans (with copper) and another city in Turkey (which will need a palace to block the Turks) is only 3.

Looking at the spawn map, it appears that between Germany and Russia there's a sliver of space where Novgorod and 1 west of Kiev which won't flip. Obviously not optimal but can be good production cities, so 2 more (which will need to be defended well and I'll be on bad terms with both Russia and Germany--not good. Expansion instability will be a problem too.

Then there's the all-important American lands (New Orleans, Denver and Chicago and Caracas) after my conquerors will give me 4 good cities with oil and aluminum.

Planning to use the circumnavigation and discovering the techs for my 2/3 UHV. The temple of Artemis is almost always built by somebody else and isn't really crucial anyway (unlike Moai, Oracle, Colossus and Parthenon are really important and synergistic). Have to squeeze in time to build settlers...

OK, so the Greeks aren't really poor in production, the real problem is that they don't have enough space to expand, being hemmed in by the Romans, Germans, Russians and later the Turks (really annoying). You need at least 7-8 good cities to build a spaceship in time. Athens, one city in the Balkans (with copper) and another city in Turkey (which will need a palace to block the Turks) is only 3.


I would also found Tyras(?). it is south of the iron ill and NE of the horse along the Black Sea. It is a production Powerhouse.

I would also found Tyras(?). it is south of the iron ill and NE of the horse along the Black Sea. It is a production Powerhouse.

But it's in Turkey's spawn space. I don't want any war that unless it's forced on me. :)

This was an interesting game. So as I haven't played the Greeks for a while, I didn't realize that those workboats were replaced with a galley and a settler, which makes it terribly hard to get the Oracle in time, but good if you're expansionist. Now, several times I spawned with the galley east of Athens, which is OK if you want to found Ephesus as your capital, but I found out later that the Romans are terrible and want that copper all to themselves preventing me from building the Colossus in time. So instead, one of these starts I have the galley WEST of Athens, and built my capital in Epidamnos, which had the Moai Statues and innumerable other wonders. I founded Corinth in order not to cramp out Ephesus/Sogut (which is necessary in order to make sure Byzantion doesn't get crowded out by Turkey)--it had a palace prebuilt at the last moment in 1260. Ephesus will grow if it has windmills and Cereal Mills.

Rome flipped to me after I settled a Great Artist very early, and when the French took all of Caesar's cities he collapsed.

The Romans built Budapest (called something else) which was just outside my Great Wall, so eventually they lost it to barbs. Luckily for me, Budapest flipped to me just before the Germans spawned, so they didn't get all those barb horse archers and swordsmen, and it was very Greek which caused it to revolt 9-10 times. Finally flipped to me in the late 1700's.

The 3rd city which was crucial was Mykenai (just in between the German and Russian spawn zones). I switched to Free Speech very early (since my Ephesus wasn't very productive for Bureaucracy and I didn't want to build another palace), so my culture was overwhelming on either side. Eventually Germany collapsed in the late 1800's and I got Berlin.

Had Aztecs, Incans, Turks, Portuguese, Egyptians and Malians as my vassals (and Ethiopia as my grandchild vassal), which pissed off all the other Europeans and there were several world wars, all of which I settled with cash in my pocket due to my superior tech. Slowed down my research a lot but I made it up by selling outdated techs to my vassals. Towards the end France was so annoying I decided to raze Milan and Hamburg, and they capitulated too.

This was also a game where I made the mistake of founding Denver but not founding Chicago first. As you can see, even with all my culture in Argos/Denver, 79% Greekness is not enough to flip a tile. Took some Appalachian mountains though. :lol: If Chicago was founded first then I could have denied the Americans to the Midwest and my Argos would have all the resources. They had to go to Canada and Alaska to get oil though.:lol:

Built Syracuse early (it was a Greek colony after all before the Romans came), and some modern hippies want to refound Knossos to complete my empire so I let them. :lol:

Their problem is lack of time. Have to grow all those big juicy cities in America and South Africa in time to build a spaceship is tough. Compass, Optics, Astronomy to start with, and use the 13 colonies/most mapped world as my 2/3 UHV triumphal arch. (Opening borders is tough with 11 civs in 600AD).
Cities: New Orleans, Chicago (won't make the same mistake again), Denver, Grand Rapids, Caracas, and 2-3 in Brazil. Still need Casablanca and 2 in South Africa, and maybe 1 in Australia. Got to get Communism quickly...

Then there's the problem of Russia and her fast tech rate and phenomenal production. Maybe I'll befriend Germany to invade Russia...

Good lord, you are a monster Pacifist. Do you do anything other than play this mod? ;)

I completed my Dutch spaceship game this weekend - I agree they are one of the most powerful of the smaller civs (that's why I picked them really :D). Very different tactics from you though - I ignored any conquering in Europe and went for a powerbase in Africa, Australia and Mexico (unfortunately the Incas slipped the net with an exploring workboat, so I didn't get the conquerors event for them, but they did vassalize to me). The only reason I conquered France is because they DOW'd me late in the modern era, so I razed Paris and conquered the rest of France in about 4 turns :goodjob:
Silly France, I have Modern Armour!

On the subject of Russia - in this game they did quite a bit of Siberia colonizing, getting about 2/3rds of the way across (and towards Mongol territory) before collapsing sometime late 19th/early 20th century. I must admit I've not seen any "core of super-productive cities" Russian empires in my games.

I have to say though, I may have to lay off any more serious modern era games until I get a new PC - load times were not pleasant :sad:

When going down to South America I always take the long route (i.e. go by east of the Falklands and then straight across) and hope I miss the dreaded Incan workboat. Their lands aren't of much use anyway, but the free troops will conquer Tucume and from there they can go to northern SA and save me from bringing troops home. I see you conquered Mexico which is very productive (if only Tenochtitlan was on the coast you could have a more productive city with a dike).
And I was going to go for your overseas expansion strategy except I saw that glimmer of a loophole that France created when they razed Frankfurt but didn't found Strasbourg yet. History was made on silly little things like that.:lol:

Good lord, you are a monster Pacifist. Do you do anything other than play this mod? ;)


not until I provide him new challenges!
The new patch could be called "Pacifist's patch" for it includes various fixes to contain his aggression!

not until I provide him new challenges!
The new patch could be called "Pacifist's patch" for it includes various fixes to contain his aggression!

LOL!!
Yes, we pacifists will take over the world. Eventually. :lol:

Done in 1970 (could have been sooner) with a Louis XIV score.
The key is to NEVER antagonize Spain, even if it means giving them whatever they want. (Of course by the end I could have crushed them like a bug, but I never declared war on anybody.):lol:
Actually the Portuguese are very powerful, since their stability doesn't take as much a hit as other "small" empires, as almost the entire South American continent is within their expansion area, plus all the extra buildings that each new city has. I ended up with 17 cities, founding 5 of them right at the end, and I found out that the UHV victory trumps the spaceship victory (I actually got most explored map in 1500 and 12 countries with open borders in 1650). Had America, Inca, Aztec (who due to my culture was exiled to Chichen Itza), France (who vassalized after Germany declared war), Mali, and Khmer as vassals, all done peacefully except for Inca/Aztec. Built all the modern wonders from Forbidden Palace onwards (thanks to a GE which built it in New Orleans, which housed the Statue of Liberty too). Taking over North America is definitely a must for any civ to win the spaceship. :lol:

I've just finished the Malinese game. Bismark has beaten me to the internet and the space elevator. I managed to launch around 2000ad. But, three turns earlier Roosvelt did the same... I hoped that I could arrive first, having built two engines (I actually started from them...) but Carthage declared independence just in time to make me lose two thrusters at 1-2 turns from completion. In the end, I lost but it's doable.
I noticed ravening independents, who launched nukes around and decided to attack my seafood and coastal cities with stealth destroyers, without being attacked...

farewell

I've just finished the Malinese game. Bismark has beaten me to the internet and the space elevator. I managed to launch around 2000ad. But, three turns earlier Roosvelt did the same... I hoped that I could arrive first, having built two engines (I actually started from them...) but Carthage declared independence just in time to make me lose two thrusters at 1-2 turns from completion. In the end, I lost but it's doable.
I noticed ravening independents, who launched nukes around and decided to attack my seafood and coastal cities with stealth destroyers, without being attacked...

farewell

Good job. I had basically given up on the 3000BC start for Mali, but haven't had the patience to start the 600 AD game yet. You're giving me some hope.
I'm going to try playing as the Mongolians first (equally behind in tech because of late start but lots of land to conquer, and doable 2/3 UHV for arch).

So Genghis Khan had a dream of flying to the moon. (or was he abducted by an alien?)
He conquered China the usual way (helped initially by a plague to which he was immune because he just spawned). Founded 4 productive cities in Siberia. Razed 7 cities by 1500. Went for culture and science early (education, optics, astronomy). Made Qufu the most learned city in the world (3 monasteries, library/observatory/university/academy/channel tunnel) and the most commercial city (trading company/wall street/bank/lighthouse/custom house/grocer/market/settled 3 great priests) Even founded Aluminum company. He was almost tempted to move the capital there but realized that with all his cities free speech was more important.
Built every wonder after Statue of Liberty (except he missed the Pentagon by 3 moves to Germany). His most productive city is Hanoi with over 200 hammers. Saved all the jungle around Patna and built National Park there.

The only thing missing was aluminum which was found in Australia (Darwin being independent due to the collapse of England).

He never declared war on anybody after conquering China, but his good relationship with Turkey (to whom he gave Merv to boost his science rate) led to escalating wars with Germany, who one day through the AP had everybody declare war on him. Eventually he bought peace with a tech to each civ.

Shortly after the spaceship arrived, the alien went back to his home planet. Genghis woke up the next day and razed every city in the world.:lol:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Biology (and its offspring, Medicine) = science parity. Decided to claim all of SA for myself (didn't need aluminum, oil and other metals), and when my workers were done, I chopped all the Amazonian forest out and replaced them with farms and windmills. Even got the Galapagos as a tourist attraction (I think whoever builds a city in the Galapagos should get some money for the turtles). Founded Cereal Mills, Aluminum Co and Standard Ethanol. The only thing standing between my victory 10 years earlier was America beating me to the Space Elevator by 3 turns.

Carthage (or Rome) are probably the best civs to win an early spaceship victory. (I was in the modern era in the early 1700's) Went for the usual Rome squatting, got very lucky because China had a city captured by barbs and collapsed, so I was able to build ALL the wonders except for Oracle, Temple of Artemis and Shwedagon Paya (could have built the last one if I wanted it but since I already have liberalism it wasn't worth it). (I never build the Mausoleum or Hanging Gardens in time if China's alive)

The importance of early Free Speech can't be underestimated (in fact I never used bureaucracy). Built 1 city in southern Poland and eventually had ALL of Poland by culture. Germany gave me Milan because my culture was so dominant. Flipped Sennar (Ethiopian), Kauen (German), Goteborg (Viking turned independent turned German), Jacksonville (American), Lyon (French), Spolato (Roman turned independent). Almost flipped Jerusalem and Babylon, had to fight Turkish culture tile by tile. Built another palace in Gordium and got Iskenderum by an early conference which helped a lot.

BTW, if you don't want war, just don't sign any defensive pacts, and build the UN quickly. There were only 2 conferences in the entire game.

Eventually the whole Mediterranean and Black Seas, most of the Caribbean and Red Seas were mine. (Instead of a Roman lake the Mediterranean was Carthaginian)

Made the mistake of colonizing America. Set my science back probably 40% even though I got 3 great cities from it. Made me so unstable that I had to use Police state and Nationhood to stabilize (and also to slow down my culture). Finally built the spaceship in 1988 (could have been 1900).

----------

BTW, Spaceship victory trumps cultural victory (just found out because Roma, Athens were already legendary, while Constantinople hit legendary at the same move that the spaceship arrived). So we have:
UHV>Spaceship>Cultural

Anybody want to work out where domination fits in there? :lol:

Egypt is great for early wonders but terrible for later (i.e. iron/ aluminum/happiness) expansion. Arabia is going to box me in. There's the sinkhole called south Africa that'll drive my economy to the dumps for unknown reasons. My last game as Hannibal gave me a thought--if you build the Great Wall, the many barbs in Africa will demolish other civs (in fact Mali never had a chance and was wiped out in the early 1100's, and in 1988 the barbs will still roaming West Africa). So if Carthage (and maybe Rome and Greece) collapses, I'll capture their cities (which will then be safe from barbs, at least the African ones) and from there I'll get to America for my 3-4 productive cities.
Count on Ethiopia, maybe Mali as my vassals for happiness (will give Mali feudalism and maybe an elephant).
Use 500/5000 culture as my 2/3 UHV and build the wonders a little later than required.
Need Mausoleum of Mausollos and Hanging Gardens!!

For Egypt prioritizing the GW is very important. Then wait for Ethiopia to get destryoed by the barbs and take them. Indpendents aren't really a war.;)

Vassalizing Mali and possibly Carthage would be smart. When Greece collapses make sure to take Athens.

Basically did the same thing as Mongolia, except that it's even easier with Arabia which starts with more time. First to liberalism and free religion/free speech, lots of money with the 4 shrines. Even made my University of Sankore and Spiral Minaret seem paltry in contrast. Was super stable until the very end when I did a land grab for score (founded 7 cities in 4 moves, some in North America), and dropped to collapsing.

Aksum, Samarqand, Baghdad and Delhi were my most productive cities. Converted a sluggish Mumbai into a good city with National Park. Settled maybe 10 priests in Mecca. Some barb horse archers razed Sana which is a waste of a city, too bad I can't thank them in person (built the Great Wall right afterwards).

Yes, it's possible to produce 11000 culture in 1 move.

Could have finished this 100 years early, but I'm a sucker for vassals and colonizing North America.:lol:

* means I've done it. All in monarch obviously. + means done by others.

Easy:
*Germany
*Russia
*England
*France
*Vikings
*Spain
*China
*Rome
Japan
*Netherlands
*Portugal
*Greece

Medium-easy:
*Carthage (need to grab good land)
*Mongolia (large empire=high science cost, lack of time)
*Arabia (large empire=high science cost)
*Persia (large empire=high science cost)
*America (lack of time)
*Turkey (lack of time)

Medium-hard:
*Aztec (behind in science)
*Khmer (tough terrain)
*Maya (Aztecs)
*Inca (behind in science)

Hard to impossible:
*Mali (no golden age, poor production, African instability)
+*Babylon (tough neighbors in the future)
*Ethiopia (stinking impis/barbs, African instability)
Egypt (poor production, stinking impis/barbs,mysterious causes of instability)
+India (poor production,mysterious causes of instability)

Enough said...to be compared to his grandson is just terrible.

I finally did it, purely by luck (see below).:p

Started out with Oaxaca and sent 2nd settler to New Orleans (just beyond flip zone for Aztecs).

Well if you call Maya one of the least productive civs and then colonize Louisiana or even worse Colorado and Texas (most productive areas I've seen in the game, I've had Denver over 200 base production) it isn't going to be a real Mayan spaceship IMHO. The real challenge is launchinig a spaceship from the real mayan lands. Let's allow the city just north of Ticumé maybe, if it's impossible with just central america (Mexico is fair game IMO).

Also, because of the above, I won an american space race with 600 AD start and it's extremely easy.

Well if you call Maya one of the least productive civs and then colonize Louisiana or even worse Colorado and Texas (most productive areas I've seen in the game, I've had Denver over 200 base production) it isn't going to be a real Mayan spaceship IMHO. The real challenge is launchinig a spaceship from the real mayan lands. Let's allow the city just north of Ticumé maybe, if it's impossible with just central america (Mexico is fair game IMO).

Also, because of the above, I won an american space race with 600 AD start and it's extremely easy.

Well, there's really no way to produce a spaceship from poor lands, and you need at least 5-6 good cities to beat everybody else, besides aluminum. What I meant was to get spaceships from civs that typically have poor production IF they stayed in their traditional spawn area. Great Britain, France and even Arabia would count as poor. The obvious solution is to get to the productive lands before anybody else does.

Mexico by the way can accomodate 1.5 good cities (I had the Aztecs as my vassal and my city with its full cross had 18 population at the expense of the other 2 Aztec cities which were down to 4-5 pop each.

Well, I don't think "there's no way" you can win (on monarch) a space race settling only Yucatan, the city north of Ticumé and if it looks impossible then maybe take over Mexico. I'm gonna try that and let you know.

Victoria chided herself for taking too many vassals (France, Germany, Khmer, Aztecs, Incans, Chinese, Indians)...and didn't live to see the launch of her spaceship.:lol: Erased the upstart Americans from history in the war of 1812.

Very funny thing happened in 1900, Nidaros (but not Bergen which is closer) flipped to me by culture.

Egypt is great for early wonders but terrible for later (i.e. iron/ aluminum/happiness) expansion. Arabia is going to box me in. There's the sinkhole called south Africa that'll drive my economy to the dumps for unknown reasons. My last game as Hannibal gave me a thought--if you build the Great Wall, the many barbs in Africa will demolish other civs (in fact Mali never had a chance and was wiped out in the early 1100's, and in 1988 the barbs will still roaming West Africa).

I had a similar thought when I played Egypt through to the modern era. Some problems however:

1. Impis are Native, not Barbarian, and ignore Great Wall effect.
2. Camel Archers which spawn in Arabia are not prevented by the Great Wall from entering Africa via Sinai.

Other than these reasons, the Great Wall 'seems' like a good idea for Egypt, but I found it unconvincing.

For point 2, I think this is because Arabia is considered to be on a different continent. Does anyone know of a map which defines the continental boundaries for the purpose of wonders such as the Great Wall, Statue of Liberty, etc. ?

Egypt can have copper to build axemen to defend from Natives, and Elephants to defend from Camel Archers. They should only mean free xp for you :D
Same with Carthage.

Also natives, not being barbarians, provide more than 10xp and count toward the Great General appearance ! I'd do all but prevent them from coming ...

Did my usual Persia moves, razed Sur after giving it to Arabia, built a palace in Mazaka (in eastern Turkey) and when Turkey spawns in Sogut, erased them from history. Razed a total of 10 cities in order not to grow too big, but Persia's unique power was too tempting. 3 Golden Ages (triumphal arch, Taj Mahal and Olympic Park). The only surviving Europeans that were not my vassals were Germany and Britain. Made the mistake of founding 3 big cities in America, and had almost all the world (Incans, Aztecs, Russia (spontaneously), Khmer, Egypt (by war), Mali, Portugal) as my vassals. Of course fighting against too much culture was in my mind, so I purposefully didn't build any theaters or temples in my 3 most cultural cities. Halfway to Industrialism, I thought I was good until Vikings respawned and decided to vassalize to Russia (my vassal) which tipped me over the edge for domination in 1850 (I always had the population).

So it should probably be put in the the "hard" category, for the self-control needed not to win a domination or cultural victory. :lol:

Went back and gave all my American holdings away. Conquered Athens and Constantinople instead, which prompted a war with Germany and vassalized him. Nearly made the same mistakes (29.5%/30% land and 24.5%/25% population, 2 legendary cities).

My Persian game gave me the schema for a Babylonian spaceship:
1. build Babylon and get 2/3 UHV if possible
2. Conquer Egypt and Greece; collapse India early with 1st warrior
3. Flip Shush and disband
4. Flip Jerusalem and Sur, and give Sur to Arabia and raze on 2nd flip
5. Build Mazaka as my 2nd palace (and Constantinople if not built already) to box the Turks in and erase from history
6. Meanwhile Athens builds settlers up in the Russian/German border and collapse Germany with my culture.
7. When Persia and Rome collapse, get their biggest cities (Sirajis, Rome) and raze the rest.

As usual, founded Lisboa as my capital, 4 other cities (Madrid 1 north of start, La Coruna, Barcelona and Cadiz) as well as 2 in North Africa (it was quite ironic to have the statement "Plague has spread in Oran!") Played pacifist until France decided to ask for La Coruna (100% Spanish and totally blocking France, but I had open borders with them, so Napoleon had no excuse). Germany and England were my friends, and Germany collapsed, leaving a super powerful Netherlands after France collapses. And sure enough, Willem declares war on me and I vassalize him. America was my vassal because France declared war during the flip.

One interesting thing was how close (and yet how far) the other 2/3 civs were. Russia never lost a city, actually colonized Siberia. Japan was not top in score but got liberalism even before Netherlands. Turkey had 1 vassal, and could have easily vassalized Greece, Egypt and Arabia when they respawned (I got Arabia as a spontaneous vassal).

In his dotage (of 1850 years old) Augustus had a dream of flying to the moon. So instead of opting for dominating the world (he already had 50% of world population) or being crowned Imperator Mundi (with diplomacy of course, already having 9 vassals) with a very stable empire, he went for a spaceship. Well, his economy could not grow for ever, so after belligerent Spain was pacified into the Province of Hispania, and some cities in former Russia clamored to join (and thus destabilize) the empire, he lost France and Greece twice (conquered them back but he became too weary) and finally the Aztecs respawned with just 2 cities. Even had a 100% Roman Constantinople and Cheronesus flip to the Turks for no good reason, had to vassalize them. The damn spaceship took another 150 years to fly and by then he was demoted from Augustus Caesar to Warren G. Harding.:king:

Had a previous save when I was doing reasonably well with Russia...first time I founded Rjazan instead of Moscow and sending a horse archer east to contact China and the eastern civs. The problem with Russia is that it doesn't have too many happiness resources (furs and gems really up north), so having Khmer as an early vassal with all its happiness resource (and having built Notre Dame using a great engineer) didn't hurt. By the end I had Greece, Egypt, India, Khmer and China as vassals.
Always thought it was a waste having built the Apollo (or Sputnik) program but not being able to build a spaceship.
The only war I had was with the Vikings who happily conquered Brest-Litowsk from the Germans for me, and then I declared war on the Vikings who made the Germans my friends (and collapsed soon thereafter). Even got Kilia from a world conference, and built the UN soon after to avoid any more needless wars.

Turkey is one of those civs that can go really well or really horribly. The ideal conditions for the 600 AD start are:
1. Byzantium has no gunpowder and withstood the Arabian onslaught...so that most of the cities have good buildings left.
2. Arabia has no gunpowder and has not built Desful/Bagdat or captured Shiraz (otherwise their production will be good)
3. Germany has built towards the Dutch rather than towards the Balkans.

I had all 3 conditions for my win. As usual built all the available wonders. Saved a monastery for each religion to spread the faiths later. Never used bureaucracy since I didn't want to lose all my beginning units by hurling them towards Istabul.

Actually have India, Khmer, Vikings as vassals but after 1870 obviously.

BTW, the smaller cities in Turkey have their uses. First of all, you can whip lots of janissaries initially before you hook up the iron or copper, and that helps with collapsing Arabia early. Later when you've built lots of temples it will help with cathedrals. Konya is actually my 3rd most productive city even with Sogut and Sinop squeezing it in. Later when you have Sid's Sushi (or Cereal, which I also have) those cities can grow to a decent size.

The last picture is just a show of the Turkish power of culture (plus free speech, Eiffel Tower, 2 corporations and 4 religions with cathedrals)...even my new cities (you can guess which ones are new) are able to squeeze the older cities to half their sizes and make them unstable.:lol:

Monty had a change of heart. Instead of killing Europeans he wanted to dominated them scientifically and diplomatically. So he did what the Americans couldn't do--sign the Russians in NATO. Of course that means forgoing the easy 5 European slaves part, but now they're ALL his slaves.:)

At the very last moment when the spaceship was arriving, World War broke out--east against west. Guess who has 10 nukes stored before outlawing them?:lol:

The Vikings are unique in that they could take over either England, France or Germany. (Or even Russia but why go to those barren lands without commerce?) For best science rates, England (and neutral Ireland which doesn't flip automatically) can't be beat. England will eventually collapse since they can't occupy their traditional lands, and you can take over Inverness without any war at all. Then it's 3 major cities in New Orleans, Chicago and Denver. Sent a great artist to Chicago and enveloped the whole east coast, which made Washington vassalize to me (even though I already had 5 vassals)--not that I needed him, but Washington's culture envelops the horse, coal and iron and must not be allowed.

I think you can probably move the Turkish spaceship to easy - my recent Turkish UHV attempt was very easily shifted to a spaceship attempt once it was obvious I wasn't going to get the required vassals (most of the potentials vassalized elsewhere :mad:)

I didn't bother to expand outside of Europe although I did get the Incas as vassals, plus the Dutch later on. Unfortunately about 5 turns before the spaceship landed the Babylonians revolted losing me a nice production and commerce city in Babil and hurting my score a bit, but Frankfurt revolted to me a turn before I won and this empire was good for a Nero score. I was comfortably 1st for a long time, with the Americans 2nd place for most of it at around 1500 points behind me.

I think you can probably move the Turkish spaceship to easy - my recent Turkish UHV attempt was very easily shifted to a spaceship attempt once it was obvious I wasn't going to get the required vassals (most of the potentials vassalized elsewhere :mad:)

I didn't bother to expand outside of Europe although I did get the Incas as vassals, plus the Dutch later on. Unfortunately about 5 turns before the spaceship landed the Babylonians revolted losing me a nice production and commerce city in Babil and hurting my score a bit, but Frankfurt revolted to me a turn before I won and this empire was good for a Nero score. I was comfortably 1st for a long time, with the Americans 2nd place for most of it at around 1500 points behind me.

I see you tried to vassalize Germany but they must have collapsed under your weight.:p For Turkey it's so easy to expand either west or east, west being probably more productive (Persia has maybe 2 good cities while Germany and France have 4 good cities). Stability-wise I think Europe is worse for Turkey--I didn't have a single revolt since I was solid all the time.

Anybody want to try for Ethiopia?

Trying it after seeing this thread. I think it will require some experimentation... I don't think I'm "on to anything" yet. :)

I think you can probably move the Turkish spaceship to easy - my recent Turkish UHV attempt was very easily shifted to a spaceship attempt once it was obvious I wasn't going to get the required vassals (most of the potentials vassalized elsewhere :mad:)

I have to agree with this. I am currently playing Turkey towards a UHV and it would a no-brainer to go for a space victory instead as I am in equal first place with France for techs but I control about 3 times the population as Napoleon does.

I didn't bother to expand outside of Europe although I did get the Incas as vassals, plus the Dutch later on. Unfortunately about 5 turns before the spaceship landed the Babylonians revolted losing me a nice production and commerce city in Babil and hurting my score a bit, but Frankfurt revolted to me a turn before I won and this empire was good for a Nero score. I was comfortably 1st for a long time, with the Americans 2nd place for most of it at around 1500 points behind me.

The key for me to get enough vassals (I have 4) was Portugal, who came to me just as soon as I circumnavigated the world (beelined for Optics) for the movement bonus, asking to become a vassal state of mine. I was in the process of crushing Arabia into submission, so had a large enough empire to boot. Arabia had 2 Egyptian cities, 5 Arabian peninsula cities and 4 Persian/Indian cities before I invaded. I took Kudus and Mekka and they capitulated. Then I founded Bagdad to hem them in. Arabia was borderline going to declare war on me for centuries if I so much as demanded any resource, but by the late 1700s were actually friendly to the point that I could demand anything of them and get it.

I also got Khmer and Aztec who volunteered for vassalization. The Aztecs were my insurance policy in case Arabia collapsed (it was touch and go a few times, like when Egypt respawned) and the Aztecs came attached with a war with England - not that that was a problem for me to deal with.

Turkey has much better lattitudes for the Apollo Program than say Russia or Vikings does. I think this is a significant factor for determining the "ease" of a spaceship victory in RFC.

One challenge I see in my current Ethiopia game is inflation. In 1856 inflation is 182%, so that my total expenses are 139 * 282% = 391, which is a lot for my empire. I pulled up a save as India and saw that inflation was something like 190% in 1880. In a non-RFC save inflation is 96% in 1908. I wonder if the player has any control over inflation in the current RFC...

I see Barak was wondering (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=265895&highlight=inflation) something similar.

I've never seen the great economist event in RFC to reduce my inflation. Is it just me being unlucky or what?
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, a positive gold balance to avoid instability means that inflation is going to go up. I always hover around 0-50 gold at most in non-RFC games, but lately I've been hoarding thousands of gold piece simply because of positive balances with every turn.

Yes, the Federal Reserve event is in RFC - I got it as either Germans or Russians, I can't remember which.

This is a very interesting thread.

1. Don't need to go for founding religion (use 1500 and 1900 as UHV criteria)
2. Send 2nd settler south to get copper and iron
3. Get code of laws quickly (for courthouses)
4. Fill in South Africa with 1 more city, capture Mombasa, and get Egyptian lands when they collapse, otherwise get other African areas (e.g. Moqdisho, Mbanza Kongo) slowly to avoid draining
5. Beeline biology, trade to fill in, and computers for internet
6. Build Space Elevator in Aksum
7. Vassalize Mali at some point for happiness and stability (or get liberalism for commonwealth)

...without being completely unreasonable. Played a perfectly pacifist game, discovered Aztecs and Incans who peacefully vassalized to me, so did Mali and Khmer. Did not build a single city in China (captured Keijo and built Chongjin but that's it to fulfill the 2nd criteria) but had cities in Jayakarta, Philippines, and 4 in Australia. Of course I'm first place in 1500 (that's just principle, nonnegotiable). No war at all. Built every useful wonder (Statue of Liberty and Notre Dame not being among them). I'm always annoyed that the Aztecs didn't build any cities in California so I built Shimonseki for them and "liberated" the same turn. I also captured Tucume and gave it to Inca. Well, these do NOT count as losing or trading a city so I won by default in 1850!:mad:

Babylon is a fun civilization to play to the end because of the constant challanges of new aggressive civ's spawning near you. Monarch mode, latest patch.

My starting plan was to get early cottages up at Babylon to make full use of the fact that Babylon start very early and floodplains is good for it.

Not get too many cities too not get the sience costs and city costs too high.

Founded Babylon on spot building a barracks and teching hunting -> archery, I didnt have any usefull workertechs so no use building a worker first. Build 3 bowmen and use them to capture Dehli, which would be my great people farm later. I was lucky Dehli only had 2 warriors, they have decided to build settler and new city too south east instead and was no problem for my three bowmen. I decided to raze the other indian city to not get behind in the sience race to Great Wall.

After the 3 archers I build 2 workers and researched pottery, mining, BW, Masonry, Animal Husbandry, to improve Babylon where I whipped a granery, before I started to build spears to prepare for Persia.

After that I teched Writing, Math...

Disbanded Sur and Shusha when they flipped.
When Persia spawned I realise I couldn't take their cities, spears cannot beat fortified archers, so I realised I need catapults for it. Persia declared war on me and we had a long fight, where I sat with spears outside Parsa before the catapults arrived.

It cannot be emphazied strongly enough how important it is to get greatwall as soon as possible, because of all the horse archers coming from Sammarkand.

In Dehli I built a library when I got writing and started to get 2 sientists to get an academy in Babylon, before I started hiring priests there to get Shrines.

Now it was soon time for Arabia and Parsa and Babylon started to build elephants and catapults to meet the camelarchers.

One strange thing happened in my game, christianity was founded in Yerusalihm, which was an independent city for quite long. That doesn't happen often. But of course was great for me.

With the elephants and cats I took Yerusalihm and a workboat get contact with Cartage. Before Arabia spawns I moved home all troops to Babylon and let they have Yerusahlim when they spawned.
It is very important to never ever refuse a flip, because then most of your army will go to the enemies and join the liberation war. It's better to wait 5 turns after liberation and then attack them. (I don't use the exploit to kill them when they spawned before they have founded their first city and you want the Religion in Mecca anyway).
The war was surprisingly easy, elephants are good against camel archers.
I only kept Yerusahlim and Mecca.

Timely enough Egypt collapsed and I attacked and kept Niwit-Rist and Per-Wadjet (a misstake Athens culture made the city useless).

One big problem was stabiliy, I never got anything better than unstable/collapsing. It was the economic stability rating that kept me down, must have been because of low amount of resources traded as I had nearly everything. Parsa liberated 2 times, it's easy to get back but you loose all building which is annoying. For that reason I kept most of my troops in Babylon. Per-Wadjet also liberated but I didnt take it back.

Soon it is time for Turkey, luckily Yerusalihm is outside their spawning place, so no cities will flipp. And I decided not to attack them, they were too strong for it anyway. They haven't declared war on me yet and a strong Greece in Constantinopel keeps them weak.

Rome and Cartage collapsed early, but Greece is going very strong. But wil probably collapse soon, I have 4 galleys ready in Yerusahlim to take Athens if it happens.

In 1400 a surprisingly strong Ethiopia declared war on me (China also declared war, but they cant get to me). My elephants had to go there, I didnt have enough catapults to try to take any cities. But an AI stupidity which attacked my elephant stack with 10 horse archer outside their capital, reduced their army and i can probably have peace soon.

Teachwise Greece is way ahead, but Im on par with the rest of the europeans. I missed liberalism with 3 turns in 1530, maybe too japan?! I don't have optics either.

I got all 5 shrines in 1500, before I had any Shrines my sience was down too 10%, but now it's up too 50% at least. I built two more cities in southern India in 1500, which costs 20 g/turn for every new city. Is it always that high??

I will try to get any other city, except Athens if they collapse. Im abit production short for a spacerace, but very good tech-cities and highly specialised. The worst thing that can happen is that India/Persia/Arabia/Egypt respawns, which they probably will. That's the only real obstacle I see towards a spaceracevictory. I dont need Egypt, but if anyone else respawn I'll have to get the cities back.

Im at 1555 now, so I haven't finished the game yet. Babylon is most exciting before 1500 anyway. And there are lots of different starting tactics. Perhaps Another Pacifist has another starting plan for his Babylon spacerace?!

Heathcliff you're doing way better than I am. Build some courthouses and hope that India doesn't respawn. From my Persian game it's usually enough with the number of cities you have right now so don't bother capturing Athens.
In my last few games Babylon couldn't generate enough culture to flip Sur or Shush even after 2 wonders...are you playing BTS?

My Babylonian spaceship low-spoiler miniguide is here http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rfc-babylonian-strategy#toc22, although it's from a couple versions ago.

...without being completely unreasonable. Played a perfectly pacifist game, discovered Aztecs and Incans who peacefully vassalized to me, so did Mali and Khmer. Did not build a single city in China (captured Keijo and built Chongjin but that's it to fulfill the 2nd criteria) but had cities in Jayakarta, Philippines, and 4 in Australia. Of course I'm first place in 1500 (that's just principle, nonnegotiable). No war at all. Built every useful wonder (Statue of Liberty and Notre Dame not being among them). I'm always annoyed that the Aztecs didn't build any cities in California so I built Shimonseki for them and "liberated" the same turn. I also captured Tucume and gave it to Inca. Well, these do NOT count as losing or trading a city so I won by default in 1850!:mad:

I guess the only thing you can do is avoid building culture buildings in southern Japan and hope China/Seoul gets enough culture in Korea to miss the second UHV condition? Is that ever going to happen?

Either that or found/capture a small city near a strong civ you're at war with and leave it undefended I suppose. A lot of effort just to launch a spaceship :rolleyes:

the "best of" these tips would be nice to have in the wiki, like Jet did. Of course, if something has changed with the new patch, you'll need a bit more time

Ok I am trying to do Spaceship victories with only historical territory.

So far I was doing well with Carthage (Carthago, Icosium, Lixus, Leptis) but I got to a point where my computers can't run the game anymore... I get stuck at "Waiting for other civilizations" >_<
Will try with the new patch, otherwise I may post the save in case someone can play ahead.

With Egypt I am doing also well (Memphis, Butos, Thebes, Selime (?), Abydos) (note: in RFC naming system Thebes and Abydos are quite far from their real locations) but I am dealing with chronical instability, especially due to Foreign being always only one star and I can't figure out why.

Me too for Egypt, couldn't get past 1000 AD due to one star Foreign (and one start Economy, in my case.) Only tried twice though.

America is much easier playing for spaceship victory. Can't really lose with all that good land and super stable (I was in a Great Depression for much of the 19th century and was "solid" throughout, becoming very solid when I switched to environmentalism).

BTW, founded Anchorage and Pearl Harbor just to complete the American/Canadian Union.:lol:

I got space with India in 1.181. I don't think I ever did it all the way with India before, but it does seem harder than it used to be. I think inflation is part of the difference. It was close. I used the Internet, almost lost to a time victory, and was lucky to get the health event. Briefly what I did was founded both religions and Oracled to Mathematics, defending the border with Archers and forts, then Calendar. 6 cities in India, notably Chennai on the cows which got an Academy and somewhat to my surprise, the Channel Tunnel. To control stability and costs I settled just 2 colonies, in the Phillipines and southeast Australia, for resources and 8 cities total. Later I also grabbed New Zealand, but I don't think it made much difference. Made friends with my neighbors. Cottaged as much as I could. Got the Leaning Tower (wanted the GL) and Shwedagon. Mostly did balanced research, choosing techs for trades and gradually getting to Biology. After Biology it was Railroad, then Computers.

Note that I did cheat by turning off stability in 1700, but that's just because it's impossible otherwise due to unnatural agricultural bias against Ethiopia in stability. I tried to counter the instability by building the Taj Mahal first, but even then switching civics made me collapse. Free economy is a no-no due to Great Depression (despite 1st in gold and 1st in production).

Send 2nd settler to found Gondar which becomes the nucleus to colonize southern Africa and also a very productive city. Very important to get early bronze (for spearmen and axemen) so I defended it with my swordsman and axemen. Egypt actually DOW'd on me but collapsed midway due to barbs. I built a sizeable army and conquered Egypt. Razed every native city and founded my own. Even discovered pacifism and liberalism first.:lol:

The Internet is indispensible since my empire is so large. Also built the Space Elevator in Aksum (no other cities other than Gondar, Hanoi and New Orleans are as productive near the Equator, and mine was the only one alive and having the knowhow to build it). Gondar builds the UN. I was 3 turns from building the Statue of Liberty and 2 from Rock'nRoll before France snatches it from me (Paris was the only city in the interior of France and was superproductive).

Germany DOW'd on me all of a sudden in the 1700's and I had to divert resources to counter their offensive in Per-Wadjet. Did it again in the 1950's and I signed a defensive pact with everybody and in 10 years Germany was dead from instability.

yes, it is possible, but only if you turn off stability around 1850--that's when I inexplicably descended into civil war despite being no. 1 in gold and no. 2 in crops, with a 2 star economy. Of course with the new patch expansion penalties are more severe too. And the price of Biology is higher with chemistry being so expensive. And the fact that there's no aluminum in Africa (hence the Australasian expansion).

Nevertheless here it is. Built Leaning Tower (for 100% Great engineer emergence), and saved 2 of them for building the Space Elevator. Dia built the Internet (even though England had computers forever they didn't build it). Absolutely no war at all.

Babylon is not meant to survive. So even if you have lots of gold and have 3 vassals, your economy, civics and expansion will be 1 star.

Decided to found Dur Untash (Shush would have been good since it gets the copper and the 2 oil, but I thought I needed harbors and I know that Parsa will inevitably be founded, which means it'll be hard to get workboats out later). Dur Untash has access to both the stone and marble, which means I got Pyramids and Stonehenge first. Should have gone for Oracle but decided against it in the end, I can trade for everything anyway. Got Moai Statues shortly after Greece spawned, so I had plenty of production. Perfect location for Space Elevator.

Emar was founded as a 2nd city after Sur was razed. Not as productive as I have hoped since it overlapped with Hattusas.

Hattusas became my 2nd capital to prevent Turkish flipping--palace just built in 1260.

Persia as usual declares war on me, so since I got the Great Wall, they were taking hits from both barbs and my axemen/catapults. Vassalized to India but it was too late. I just wish they didn't found Parsa but another city on the coast.

Gave Jerusalem to Arabia who inevitably declares war on me, so captured Al-Quds and Makkah and they collapse. Disbanded 2 culture flipped cities in Arabia. Aksum flips due to culture.

Remembering that there's aluminum in southern India, I slowly but inexorably captured those independent cities in India.

Turkey spawns with just Sogut and since Greece stupidly founded Pityos (called something else), it flips to them. Vassalized Turkey which basically means Hattusas had plenty of production. I captured Istanbul (which became their capital) for them when Greece collapsed but eventually due to my culture Sogut flipped and they collapsed. Respawned and became my vassals again.

Atenas (captured by Spanish) I got by a conference, and between it and Sparta there was about 8 wonders.

At the end I decided to experiment a little to see how much I can abuse the
+125 stability points--became only "stable" after founding Eridu, Akkad, Lagash, Uruk, Eulbar, Shuruppak, and Sippar--all cities in the Fertile Crescent that got transposed to other continents.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee216/athenai777/CFC/RFC-mali-space-181.jpg

Alpha Centauri in 1987, 1.181. Some luck in peace with the natives and relatively light pressure from barbs and the plague. Basically clicked Medicine, then Computers. It definitely helped to avoid junk cities and stick to 10 total. Solid (+30) and in third place at the end.

Wow, Potugese East Africa...