It's implied that Kylorin is essentially immortal, having been a tyrant in the Age of Magic. So, what happened to him after Mulcarn's defeat? I didn't get the implication that he died in the battle--and if he had, the Godslayer would have been immediately taken to an important shrine (or given to the Elohim). I can only assume that Kylorin took the Godslayer with him wherever he disappeared off to. Does anyone with a better knowledge of FfH lore know any details?

No clue, but I'd really like to know. Perhaps we'll find out in some of the Quests in Ice.

I know where it is but I'm not allowed (nor willing) to tell it :mwaha:

Oh, so that's where that extremely secretive confidential email Kael said he had sent to me ended up.

Small nit-pick. Kylorin isn't Immortal, he doesn't age.

As to what happened to Kylorin..... that is a secret for now.

The Godslayer sounds like something Cassiel and his followers would really like to get their hands on. ;)

If Kylorin doesn't age then presumably he doesn't die of age.

So he is essentially immortal barring death from weapons or fatal diseases. Unless of course he's already dead. Maybe he's one of the current leaders, just taking on a new name? My guess would be Einion Logos if thats true but I haven't read his pedia. The godslayer is probably in some monastry or buried somewhere.

I find picturing the Godslayer a difficult task. After all, it was passed around like a common sword throughout the age of magic by the ignorant mortals, but at the same time, once you take it up to an angel, they can be slain by some powers that happens to be eminated from a piece of metal. Seriously, I'd imagine the great angels to be able to life entire mountains up or something. How did Kylorin manage to cut a massive angel up with a (relatively speaking) butterknife is beyond me.

Small nit-pick. Kylorin isn't Immortal, he doesn't age.

As to what happened to Kylorin..... that is a secret for now.

Ah, so that rules out my musing that he may have been the original man. Is he the only one that doesn't age, or was that common among earlier generations of Man (thus Perpentach would be in a similar situation)


I still want to know what happened to Gabella's husband. Logically, he should should still be in Erebus, just as unable to die as his first mate is and probably mourning over his second.



Hmm...I just came up with another crazy idea, that is almost certainly false. What if Auric Ulvin is actually Kyorlin, possessed by the spirit of Mulcarn. I imagine the spirit of the dead god may have fled to the closest host, his slayer. Alternately, Kyorlin may have tried to harness his power, and bee overcome by the will that came with it. The struggle within him was so intense that it cleared his (conscious) memory and created the tabula rasca personality of Auric to protect itself. Or, he could have cleared his mind on purpose to protect his knowledge from Mulcarn, and slow his return to power. He probably hid the Godslayer from himself before he was overcome by Mulcarn, perhaps taking into the Shadowed Vale. I wonder if he thought the Heartstone would help him rid himself of Mulcarn, but was delayed too long and had lost control of his body before he could use it. Having the power of Kyorlin but not his knowledge would explain his uncontrolled affinity for magic. Of course, I believe that Ulvin is specifically stated as being much younger during this episode, so this is almost certainly not the case.

Didn't Epona state that in her vision of her past life in Patria Kyorlin was younger than he was in the Age of Ice? How can this be if he does not age? Perhaps he just ages very slowly.

Well, if Gabella is really as horrible as she sounds, he could easily be tied up in her dungeons. Or buried at sea.

I find picturing the Godslayer a difficult task. After all, it was passed around like a common sword throughout the age of magic by the ignorant mortals, but at the same time, once you take it up to an angel, they can be slain by some powers that happens to be eminated from a piece of metal. Seriously, I'd imagine the great angels to be able to life entire mountains up or something. How did Kylorin manage to cut a massive angel up with a (relatively speaking) butterknife is beyond me.

I imagine it's just extremely damaging to a god. Basically, if Kylorin slashes Mulcarn in the shin, then most of the flesh on Mulcarn's leg splits open from the blow. It could also look similar to a venomous sting: Mulcarn gets stabbed, then the wound swells up and the god goes into convulsions and collapses. There's also the really high fantasy solution, in which Kylorin shoots a laser beam out of the Godslayer, creating a nuclear explosion that ablates Mulcarn entirely, but I'm guessing it's one of the first two.

I imagined it as your third possiblbity, intense magics that rip the god apart.

I bet he's Govannon in disguise, and when the world is about to fall to darkness, return to make the Amurites Good again instead of Neutral. :) At least I hope so. Damn Amurites betraying their original good intentions. :shake:

I bet he's Govannon in disguise, and when the world is about to fall to darkness, return to make the Amurites Good again instead of Neutral. :) At least I hope so. Damn Amurites betraying their original good intentions. :shake:

Their original intentions seemed pretty Neutral to me. Mulcarn violated the Compact (which was proposed by a Neutral god... well, his arcangel, anyway), and he was ruining life for the Amurites (Good, Neutral, Evil, everyone will kill you for that). Sure, they fought an Evil god, but Tasunke would have done the same thing (only probably less successfully, what with the "not having an immortal god-king whose children weild arcane might" handicap).

Hmm...I just came up with another crazy idea, that is almost certainly false. What if Auric Ulvin is actually Kyorlin, possessed by the spirit of Mulcarn. I imagine the spirit of the dead god may have fled to the closest host, his slayer. Alternately, Kyorlin may have tried to harness his power, and bee overcome by the will that came with it. The struggle within him was so intense that it cleared his (conscious) memory and created the tabula rasca personality of Auric to protect itself. Or, he could have cleared his mind on purpose to protect his knowledge from Mulcarn, and slow his return to power. He probably hid the Godslayer from himself before he was overcome by Mulcarn, perhaps taking into the Shadowed Vale. I wonder if he thought the Heartstone would help him rid himself of Mulcarn, but was delayed too long and had lost control of his body before he could use it. Having the power of Kyorlin but not his knowledge would explain his uncontrolled affinity for magic. Of course, I believe that Ulvin is specifically stated as being much younger during this episode, so this is almost certainly not the case.

First, Auric doesn't look like Kylorin,
second, he should have been at least "50 years old" when fleeing the vale to be a Kylorin applicant

Didn't Epona state that in her vision of her past life in Patria Kyorlin was younger than he was in the Age of Ice? How can this be if he does not age? Perhaps he just ages very slowly.

He "seemed younger and less wise" meaning that he doesn't necessarily age at all, but he just lacked some of his later wisdom, thus seeming less experienced and younger

Ah, so that rules out my musing that he may have been the original man. Is he the only one that doesn't age, or was that common among earlier generations of Man (thus Perpentach would be in a similar situation)

Eternal Youth was Cerdiwen's gift to him in return for his service to her.

Perpentach has mastered mind magic. When he gets late in life he switches his consciousness into the body of a young man. He always wears heavy makeup and decoration to hide the fact that his body changes (not that it still isn't obvious smething changed, but no one would dare to ask Perpentach directly about it). The Balseraphs believe Perpentach is immortal.

Their original intentions seemed pretty Neutral to me. Mulcarn violated the Compact (which was proposed by a Neutral god... well, his arcangel, anyway), and he was ruining life for the Amurites (Good, Neutral, Evil, everyone will kill you for that). Sure, they fought an Evil god, but Tasunke would have done the same thing (only probably less successfully, what with the "not having an immortal god-king whose children weild arcane might" handicap).

Yeah, Kylorin is a tough character. He is definitly the good guy of that story but in typical FfH fashion I tried to steer away from the typical hero archetype. In my mind Kylorin acts heroically not because of some strong morale fiber but out guilt and a desire to make up for his prior crimes. And most importantly he was unwilling to condemn Eve to a brutal, painful world. The mantle of savior is heavy on him and I tried to show that in the pedia entries.

Particually those with Belenus and Caerbulin make comment of his very practical nature, and lack of compassion. I really wanted to show a similarity of personality between Kylorin and Valledia.

edit: I guess Kylorins poem does a good job of listing his motive:


What of my queen across these centuries?
At times I glance her as our fates entwine
Sharing a few words or lives married
Occurs unforced as allowed by time
Loves strongest bonds are those that loosest bind
Her life to me, and mine spent trying to repay
My debt of sin to the men my acts betrayed

Eve? who is that, the original Epona? (The name make my "first man and first mortal woman" theory seem more likely, even though we now know that is false)

Still, what happened to the real first man?

It also brings up the point of why Kylorin wants to protect Eve so much. What sin did he do that he must repay to her? Or if it is out of love, what was the situation of how they first met.

Kyorlin's wife cheated on him, and he tried to kill himself. Then Ceridwen convinced him to change his mind by offering him a chance to live forever, and to make his wife live again and again. He wouldn't have her with her body tainted and her heart belonging to another, so he had her bound eternally to this world, unable to ever move on. In exchange for this he became a follower of Ceridwen and used his new arcane power to corrupt his empire and rip apart creation in ways as bad as the Godswar. He made the world a horrible place in which his reincarnated wife did not want to live, and many times hes tried to force himself on her. It is also implied that he personally killed her at least once. She grows tired of this world, but because of him can never move on.





At my hand the first empire of man was won
For me long faithful men bled and died
Yet I was the one to which this treachery was done
This truth I knew but my timid lips denied
That a disloyal heart each night beside me lied
My queen who spent her love upon another man
That heart, which I desired most, I could not command

To flee that gilded hell I sacrificed my life
From the tower into empty night I'd fly
What pain is death compared to a faithless wife?
What hope exists to one who'd rather die?
So I stood upon the parapet and cried
"Come death, rend my flesh, gather my soul
Tear from me, this tragedy, this gaping hole"

No answer came from the chill November night
Only wind and echoes from a city far below
Until from deep within the pale moonlight
Came a goddess wreathed in a pallid glow
"Answer me, most mortal king, for I would know
If I returned your love and you weren't dead
Would you forget your oaths and follow me instead?"

I'm not mad enough to think that burning spirits can
Remake this loss, restore my past undone
And you cannot make us understand
That with even the most silvered tongue
Loves remains can never love become
Or heart won through cheat is ever truly got
Or that this pain would cease if mind forgot

If you've no hope left then leap to death
Else hear my words and enter this shadowed door
But I promise even if you don't draw breath
This pain will follow you to Arawn's shores
And in death you will possess hatred even more
For I know the dead; they are wounds unhealed
And if you leap now, to this your fate is sealed

So came I to learn from the goddess of pain
Ceridwen, breaker of men, maiden of the mask
Many aspects she has and more vile names
She taught me how to avenge my past
And have my wife reborn so that our love might last
Sorcery, her gift to me, would sustain my life
And instead of death would reincarnate my wife

Born anew I could find and woo my wife again
Her mistake erased I'd have my perfect queen
With her death and newfound life she'd make amends
And I would remain forever as a king
In time the happiness she'd bring
Would make worthwhile this twisted sacrifice
For Ceridwen's gift had come at a price

Two hundred years I stayed as undying king
My lands, once fair, ruled now by arcane might
Through generations of my people and my queen
I alone remained and changed to Ceridwen's delight
A cruel terror who commanded flame, death and night
I demanded that every man should come to obey
The least of my desires, which grew each passing day

Another Eve had passed, this time by my hand
After a break of years I went to seek her out
I found a young woman working on my lands
I approached and told her all about
The bond between us but she had only fear and doubt
Those eyes, once trusting, were now full of tears
Seeing the monster I'd become in all these years

She destroyed me in the centuries before
And now thought for this I was the one to blame
I returned to the life she now claimed to abhor
And left her in the fields her life unchanged
I approached her reborn forms but it was the same
Always revulsion at what I had become
And through any lie her heart remained unwon

My mages maintained Ceridwen's demands
Most of which had been trained by me
My kingdom destroyed by my own hands
The first empire of man a cruel theocracy
Devoted to Cerdiwen, enforced by sorcery
And I alone remembered times more fair
It was far more than my guilty heart could bare

A bloody rebellion started, which I lead
My empire became an arcane battleground
As the gods had warred now man did instead
Landscapes were lost, forests, mountains, towns
Untold numbers unto Arawn's shores were bound
In the end the great empire of man was gone
From it only shattered countries would go on

As ages pass these countries war against
Each other, forgetting once they were as one
Or how their bitter squabbling commenced
With an ancient love betrayed their war begun
Loves remains can never love become
The same is true for kingdoms split apart
Warring nations shattered by my heart

What of my queen across these centuries?
At times I glance her as our fates entwine
Sharing a few words or lives married
Occurs unforced as allowed by time
Love's strongest bonds are those that loosest bind
Her life to me, and mine spent trying to repay
My debt of sin to the men my acts betrayed

Hmm... Eve would continue to be a character even into the age of rebirth, of course. Could make for some interesting events, including some that might play out across multiple games... Maybe Kael should consider a fitting final end to the story?

I wonder if she'd ever end up joining the Sheaim. She's got a bit in common with Os-Gabella, in that neither can truly die until all of Erebus is destroyed. Unlike Os-Gabella, of course, Eve gets periodically reborn, so she doesn't have the crushing ennui of immortality holding her down, but if life on Erebus became sufficiently horrible, she might not want to be reborn. I could see some Sheaim cultists hunting her down, using a ritual to restore her memories of her past lives, and trying to convince her that the only way to break the cycle is to bring on Armageddon.

As for why they'd care: She's the wife of Kylorin, whom I presume was the first mage and a mighty emperor. She's bound to know a few things that would prove useful to an apocalyptic, knowledge-obsessed death cult.

I thought Kylorin was just an archmage with a very long life. I think it's said in some entry that he was powerful, but the difference in power between the archmages in the Age of Magic was such that any two archmages could've overpowered him. Something like that. I had no idea that he was the king of the first empire or something like that. And why would his empire then become corrupt? The archmages demanded wealth and sacrifice or something?

I'm assuming Kylorin died in his battle with Mulcarn. Pretty sure an angel has the power to kill him finally. Should be considered a fluke that he even won.

Can't blame Ceridwen really. The angels created a world with many desperate souls that would do anything she tells them to. That, and what evil things did she tell Os-gabella to do anyway? What, for defiance? If Kylorin is not dead, he might even join the Sheaim. That would be scary.

I thought Kylorin was just an archmage with a very long life. I think it's said in some entry that he was powerful, but the difference in power between the archmages in the Age of Magic was such that any two archmages could've overpowered him. Something like that. I had no idea that he was the king of the first empire or something like that. And why would his empire then become corrupt? The archmages demanded wealth and sacrifice or something?

He became evil because of his deal with Ceridwen

I'm assuming Kylorin died in his battle with Mulcarn. Pretty sure an angel has the power to kill him finally. Should be considered a fluke that he even won.

But he had the Godslayer, and nobody has found his body in the Letum Frigus

Can't blame Ceridwen really. The angels created a world with many desperate souls that would do anything she tells them to. That, and what evil things did she tell Os-gabella to do anyway? What, for defiance? If Kylorin is not dead, he might even join the Sheaim. That would be scary.

Ceridwen is the one to blame, as she joined Agares after all and we know the results. I don't think Kylorin would ever join the Sheaim, his guilt and repentance make it impossible

@Mew: Well, unless they managed to grant her memory of all her former lives she is just a normal girl. Over and over again. I doubt anyone but Kylorin would ever realize the connection since she could be born so far apart from her previous life, and most likely anyone close to her in one life is not going to be close to her (or even encounter her) in another. If they did, they would be shocked at how much she reminds them of another person they once knew, but it would have to happen quite a few times for anyone to start suspecting the truth (which means she'd have to have quite a few short lives, but long enough to leave an impression, while the other person would have to have a long life)


She wouldn't know that she is being continually reborn from what I have read. She is just the same soul, so the same outlook on life in general, which happened to not like what Kylorin did to the world after a couple dozen itterations.

@Sylvan: Kylorin was the FIRST mage. And founded the first empire of man. He was granted immunity to aging by Ceridwen and taught the mystical arts, then made to spread that knowledge and corrupt his once noble empire by his own hand.

Epona did have some visions/dreams of her past lives though, so there is some memory that probably somehow remains, perhaps accessible only with the help of sorcery.

Never actually read her entry after having learned more of the Lore of FfH. Pretty cool. And it might be tied to proximity/discussion with Kylorin more than the magic.

What exactly are the powers of the Godslayer, anyway?

It has the power to kill a god/angel, which is an ability that no god/angel had on his own.

Actually, I think the precise wording I read somehwre made it sound like it only has the power to kill a god who swore to abide by the compact, placed him symbol on the blade, and them broke his oath. It may be that the godslayer doesn't really have any intrinsic power to kill a god, but collects on their oath to die if they ever break the agreement.

It also seems like this may mean that Cernunnos alone is immune to the godslayer, since he was not a god at the time and did not swear to the compact. He may then be the weakest of the gods, yet also the hardest to destroy.

wouldn't the archangels technically be bound be the Pact taken by thier respective god? (so even if thier god dies or breaks the compact, they can still be bound by it, as well as individually fall)

Yeah so it would have applied if he was still an arch angel but now he's got his promotion it might not.

Where's the Godslayer? Hand it over. I have a bone to pick with Cassiel.

The god slayer isn't that powerful. It effects gods more violently than archangels.

The god slayer isn't that powerful. It effects gods more violently than archangels.

I'm sure it would be a pretty deadly sword against other creatures as well; I doubt the gods simply grabbed a rusty claymore from a farmer's shed and used that. It'd doubtless be physically powerful, made of Mithril at the very least, and more likely something morals don't even have a name for. Probably has plenty of power to spare, having gotten power from all 21 gods. Short version, I'd not mind having it about to hack up goblins. And even if it's an ordinary piece of metal against mortal creatures, it'd look pretty nice on the mantelpiece.

It's a stick. They called it a "Sword" to throw off mortals; everybody who really knows what's going on will tell you it's a stick buried in my back yard. And I can prove it - Kyorlin didn't manage to actually KILL Mulcarn, did he? Huh? HUH!?!?!?!

I'm sure it would be a pretty deadly sword against other creatures as well; I doubt the gods simply grabbed a rusty claymore from a farmer's shed and used that. It'd doubtless be physically powerful, made of Mithril at the very least, and more likely something morals don't even have a name for. Probably has plenty of power to spare, having gotten power from all 21 gods. Short version, I'd not mind having it about to hack up goblins. And even if it's an ordinary piece of metal against mortal creatures, it'd look pretty nice on the mantelpiece.

I quite like the idea that it is a pretty ordinary looking sword that just happens to have been imbibed with the will of the Gods myself. Particularly if it has been "passed around like a common sword" as sylvanllewelyn put it.

That would fit with the image of the compact being agreed, grabbing a random sword and all the Gods subscribing to it there and then.

The alternative would be to have 21 Gods argue about the design of a sword, send it off to a master craftsman to make, then have the 21 Gods argue about the outcome and send it back to have added spangley bits because one of the Gods argues that if he's going to snuff it, then he/she doesn't want to die at the hands of a common looking sword. Then wait for a few days to reconvene because Bhall has a terrible migraine, and then try and round up the Fallen Angels who are having second thoughts about this compact thing...

That doesn't mean a common looking sword wouldn't have 'power' beyond being a metallic spikey thing

The godslayer was neither a sword enchanted by the gods or a sword sent out to be created by the gods. It is the manifestation of the gods agreement on the compact. When they together decided on it, that agreement was reflected physically in creation. That is the godslayer.

If the sword has any abilities outside of enforcing the compact, or if it is even a sword at all when it doesn't need to be isnt specified.

The godslayer was neither a sword enchanted by the gods or a sword sent out to be created by the gods. It is the manifestation of the gods agreement on the compact. When they together decided on it, that agreement was reflected physically in creation. That is the godslayer.

If the sword has any abilities outside of enforcing the compact, or if it is even a sword at all when it doesn't need to be isnt specified.

So it can appear as whatever it wants to be?
Also, could it appear as something besides a sword such as any weapon or even a person/animal if it wanted to?

So it can appear as whatever it wants to be?
Also, could it appear as something besides a sword such as any weapon or even a person/animal if it wanted to?

That has never been specified. We know that it was in 3 pieces at one point. It may be that something tragic happened to it or that it was symbolic of the 3 groups of gods (good/neutral/evil) opinions on the matter or it was an exercise that was intended to strengthen Kylorin and the Amurites so that they would be able do their part to kill Mulcarn.

Wether or not Mulcarn's defeat was inevitable the second he stepped into Erebus is undetermined. If Kylorin was a tool the godslayer used, or if the godslayer was a tool that Kylorin used is also unknown.

Remember Erebus is a world formed by the gods thoughts, action and desires. Even their unintended desires have influence. The horsemen are an unintended manifestation of the gods fears (the fall of the world into war, disease, death or heresy), the godslayer is a similiar effect but more potent because it involved all the gods.

So, who was Finner and why was the Godslayer handed to him?

(Doesn't handing the Godslayer to him seem to imply that it was created and put in Erebus on purpose?)

IIRC, Finner was just a mortal. I mean, he was a hero of some kind (the gods didn't pick some completely random guy), but the point was that he wasn't on anyone's side. Just a "hired gun" of sorts.