Tribal Council Faction

Link to Sign up thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267168)

The concept for this faction is that the leadership of the faction operates like a tribal council. Some attributes of a tribal council are:



The leader is often considered the "best" at something -- strongest, wisest, smartest, etc.
Members of the council are chosen by the leader with consensus of the council, and of the tribe.
The leader may step aside peacefully and transfer power to another member of the council, or even a non-council member.
The members of the council may take on individual responsibility for leadership of some aspect of the tribe.
The council does not normally interfere with day to day activities, except for dispute resolution, to give general advice, and in times of emergency.
The leader's and council's decisions are final. (whether they are enforceable is another question)
A good leader and council will usually maintain their position by limiting their use of power to that which is necessary, and by being responsive to the tribe's needs.



Organization:

Those who wish to be leader of the tribal council try to show the members that they are worthy of leadership, by deeds and by words. A leader may emerge by attrition, or by obtaining support of more faction members. Opinions of the tribe (non-members) are also important, the faction may reject a potential leader due to negative reaction to that candidate from the tribe.

Once a leader is selected, he may appoint other faction members to whatever other positions are needed. If two or more members desire a particular position, the leader may devise contests of strength, wisdom, intelligence, popularity, or other methods to distinguish them. Once the leader makes a choice, the council and tribe may agree or disagree. A wise leader faced with disagreement over the choice may decide to stick by the decision (at peril of losing the leadership position), or relent and choose another.

Enrollment: sign up, and you'll be added to the list.

Leaderhead: open for discussion.

Positions for term 1: (names depend on civ choice, to be updated)

Position: Chief
Selection: Pre-selected before election and announced in platform
Responsible for: appointments, land grants, magistrate, anything not otherwise delegated
Additional powers: May veto decisions by other leaders. May replace other leaders by appointing another citizen.

Position: Domestic (need better term)
Selection: Appointment by leader, may be pre-selected
Responsible for: city placement, workers

Position: Exploration (need better term)
Selection: Appointment by leader, may be pre-selected
Responsible for: exploration
Future: Will become war leader if/when we have one

Position; Researcher (need better term)
Selection: Appointment by leader, probably post-election
Responsible for: Tech selection

Land usage
Each in-game tile may be assigned to ownership by a citizen of the DG. The owner of a tile receives benefits from the land if that tile is worked in-game. Land ownership is conveyed by a grant of land by the leader. Land may change hands in various ways, such as being given to another player or traded for other items of value. If Feudalism had been researched, titles like Baron, Earl, Duke (or civ-related equivalents) would be assigned with land, but we strongly believe that role play should be appropriate for the actual civ game era.

Delegation: Officials may delegate part or all of their role to another player. The Chief may veto a delegation.

game play: Organized by the leader, at a rate and using a play style which promotes role playing by those who want to. Positions to regulate game play may be created as needed, by decree.

DG (not civ) culture: Land grant process may be used as an incentive for good role play.

Civ game targets: Found a religion. Start a great wonder. Discover as much as possible of initial landmass. Be strong enough compared to other civs we find so we won't become a target for war.

History:
Merged platform information from later in the thread into first post.
Put background info into spoiler, to prevent confusion.
Made some elements stronger.

Great idea for a faction, and very inclusive, definately fits for a Term One Leadership. :) Good work.

Hey! You stole my idea, DS! Except for being kindler and gentler than I was planning on being ... Advise and consent of the people? Bah! There is the ruler, and the advisors they choose! Okay, the overthrow rules do allow the tribe to rise up against the ruler, but still, the ruler's word is law!

-- Ravensfire

Shh, let them think their opinion matters... ;)

LOL, what was that drama about, more fixed rules? :)

LOL, what was that drama about, more fixed rules? :)

Now just you don't worry your head none on this here thread! :)

-- Ravensfire

Just make sure you define how enrolment works

Enrollment: sign up, and you'll be added to the list.

Leaderhead: open for discussion. I prefer to roleplay in civs that I know something about, but don't have much preference beyond that.

Positions for term 1: (names depend on civ choice, to be updated)

Position: Leader
Selection: Pre-selected before election and announced in platform
Responsible for: appointments, land grants, magistrate, anything not otherwise delegated

Position: Domestic (need better term)
Selection: Appointment by leader, may be pre-selected
Responsible for: city placement, workers

Position: Exploration (need better term)
Selection: Appointment by leader, may be pre-selected
Responsible for: exploration
Future: Will become war leader if/when we have one

Position; Researcher (need better term)
Selection: Appointment by leader, probably post-election
Responsible for: Tech selection

Land usage (there is nothing unique about this, so no plagarism accusations please :) )
Each in-game tile may be assigned to ownership by a citizen of the DG. the owner of a tile receives benefits from the land if that tile is worked in-game. Land ownership is conveyed by a grant of land by the leader. Land may change hands in various ways, such as being given to another player or traded for other items of value.

Delegation: Officials may delegate part or all of their role to another player.

game play: Organized by the leader, at a rate and using a play style which promotes role playing by those who want to.

DG (not civ) culture: Land grant process may be used as an incentive for good role play.

Civ game targets: Found a religion. Start a great wonder. Discover as much as possible of initial landmass.

More coming, but I want to see contributions, also I shouldn't be doing this when too tired.

Just thought I'd poke this faction to get it started again. Do you guys plan to compete?

Top post updated.

Open for signups.

Quick question, how would I fit in to this fraction as a bounty hunter?

Quick question, how would I fit in to this fraction as a bounty hunter?

Do your skills include the finding of missing persons who are not fugitives, but have merely lost their way? Our population has been much reduced by the troubles of the past months, and we fear for our friends safety. Whomever we choose as chief will likely be eternally grateful should someone be able to locate the lost ones and convince them to return. :) And of course, to support the chief... ;)

Beyond that, we will be choosing a place to settle soon, and then will need someone to lead the exploration of the surrounding territory. A hunter, of whatever kind, might have skills valuable in locating natural resources that we can use to make our people healthy and happy.

Is there a sign up thread, since I don't see one for this one.

Hadn't planned to have a separate one, but guess it wouldn't hurt to make it like the others to avoid confusion.

Edit: BTW the platform is just a first draft, and is open to discussion by members and interested parties.

Hopefuly there would be a member list that would be updated ;).

Hmmm, looking through the general concept, it seems solid. Some names:

Military: Warlord, Head of Warrior, Chief Scout
Research: Shaman
Domestic: Elder

Thoughts on the specific Civ4 leader? Might be interesting to use one that does represent more of a "tribal" nation than the established nations.

-- Ravensfire

Where can we see the signed on members list?

Hmmm, looking through the general concept, it seems solid. Some names:

Military: Warlord, Head of Warrior, Chief Scout
Research: Shaman
Domestic: Elder

Thoughts on the specific Civ4 leader? Might be interesting to use one that does represent more of a "tribal" nation than the established nations.

-- Ravensfire

Aztecs, Mayans, Native Americans, Incas, Celts, Zulu.

That should do.

Where can we see the signed on members list?

First post in the signup thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267168).

First post in the signup thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267168).

I'm not sure where the idea to make a separate sign-up thread came from. I'd vote for merging all of the sign-up threads with their current faction thread. It seems rather messy (and overly complicated) to separate them.

Regardless... I never expected to have 5 decently populated factions for the first time. I absolutely love how splintered we are.

Hmmm, looking through the general concept, it seems solid. Some names:

Military: Warlord, Head of Warrior, Chief Scout
Research: Shaman
Domestic: Elder

Thoughts on the specific Civ4 leader? Might be interesting to use one that does represent more of a "tribal" nation than the established nations.

-- Ravensfire

I second all of the quoted comments, except that Warlord is my favorite option for a Military leader.

Additionally, I can see us needing a separate ministry down the road a bit that would separate diplomacy actions and exploration from the office of war.

Finally, I would love to volunteer as our Warlord, but no matter what I pledge to offer many constructive opinions on the evolution of our budding nation :) By the way, my character will also spend time at the pub, where much of my historical writings regarding our nation's heroic events will take place.

I don't have a drinking problem. I'm a drinker with a Writing problem!

I'm not sure where the idea to make a separate sign-up thread came from. I'd vote for merging all of the sign-up threads with their current faction thread. It seems rather messy (and overly complicated) to separate them.

Regardless... I never expected to have 5 decently populated factions for the first time. I absolutely love how splintered we are.

Aluminumknight thought it up, then I copied. :goodjob:

Are we going to discuss our choice of faction leader head for first election in private or in public?

Aztecs, Mayans, Native Americans, Incas, Celts, Zulu.

That should do.

Of those, I only really like Huayna Capac of Inca.

In public, i think it was decided to let all faction discussion be public.

I prefer Sitting Bull and Shaka btw.

To be honest about it, there is at least one faction considering, and possibly even using, "private" discussion. Nothing wrong with it I suppose, though when I'm wearing my moderator hat I'd prefer to have it all here on CFC so monitoring of "elitism" violations is possible. (Factions can't bully their membership. I don't think that anyone will, but easier to handle if it's visible).

If it were a multi-player game, then we'd set up separate forums. We may still do that if politics gets really intense.

As for leader, I don't really have a preference.

BTW, we should also take up the matter of choosing a Chief. My RL is pretty booked right now, so if someone wants to step forward it would be good. Also there are the other positions to consider.

Congratulations, your faction has been invited to the Prime Election Debate (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267277). The Prime Election Debate is now being hosted by the Poverty's Pub Guild. It is a place for the running factions to further voice their beliefs as well as citizens to get answers.

Please read the rules in the first post before participating.

Thanks.

Having had a few more minutes to think, here's some leader analysis. The initial suggestions were for civs, but according to the results of the rules polls, we pick a leader and civ will be specified as "random" when starting the game.

I like the financial trait, for a quick tech pace and higher commerce yields. Both of these factor in well for role play, with tech giving us more role play options faster, and commerce being one way we can base an economic simulator RPG. In keeping with "tribal" we could pick Huyana Capac (FIN/IND) but would not be guaranteed of getting the Inca as civ. Pacal is (FIN/SPI) which lets us change religion and civics without anarchy.

Another way to advance roleplay is to have wonders and great people which would be Philosophical for GP or Industrious for wonders. Huyana of course supports both economic and wonders. Alexander and Pericles both help with GP being PHI, and Pericles double dips being Creative as well.

So my list would be Huyana Capac (FIN/IND), Pericles (PHI/CRE), Pacal (FIN/SPI), or Alexander (PHI/AGG). Sitting Bull (PHI/PRO) and Shaka (AGG/EXP) have also been mentioned.

I think if we're tribal, we should definatly have a IMP leader. Quick spreading, quick settlers, rapid expansion. Augustus Caesar comes to mind.

Perhaps off topic- Is there any chance we have unrestricted leaders?

Might have to pull out the old Civilopedia Civ4 BTS unmodded edition out to find the Philosophical and Industrious inclined wonders ;).

Unrestricted leaders, yes, and random civ. The Financial Trait, IMHO, is the most powerful trait in the game. After that, allot depends on what you want to do. For example, if you love wonders, then go Industrious, if you love hyper expansion, then either Imperialistic or Organized should be your second choice. If you love going to war, or if you feel that you'll be at war allot, then Charismatic, Aggressive, and to a lesser extent Imperialistic should be your choice. If you're going for Culture or a more peaceful approach, then Creative would be your next choice, however, for a real Culture victory approach, Industrious should rank higher. Finally, if racing up the tech tree is your goal or a space race then you should lean on being Philosophical or again...Industrious for some key wonders, like Colossus, the Great Lighthouse, the Great Library, and Pyramids.

In all of my games, these wonders have come out on top over and over again in terms of accelerating my research rate. All the others are nice to haves in my opinion and building the other wonders factors in more as a wonder hording strategy to weaken the potential growth of other civs.

With the above in mind, I'm leaning toward Organized, Creative, or Industrious for secondary traits. That being said, the following leaders come to mind:

Huayna Capac Financial, Industrious
Willem Van Oranje Financial, Creative
Darius I Financial, Organized

However, I can definitely see a strong case for Mansa Musa Financial, Spiritual, especially since this is a demo game, and I can potentially see many civic changes in our future.

Just asked to be accepted in this Faction.
If you want a Domestic, I volunteer to it.
About a leader: I mostly agree with kwarriorpoet, Darius, Shaka too, strong in a
Pangea, Orange in water, Capac always strong.
If I rightly understood the factions rules/limitations, each Faction is tied to a
governmental civic, so only "despotic" Factions can run the game for a awhile;
I noticed no HR Faction around, so the game will be under despotism civic for
long.
It looks Spi trait is weaker than usual and Pyramids useless (unless Factions are
allowed to change their civic choice) and the Cha value depends on the previous
decision, that is, if a democratic/police/HR faction can arise then Pyramids and
Ind is very important, if not Cha is important.
Can someone enlighten me about these faction things,please?
Best regards,

Just asked to be accepted in this Faction.
If you want a Domestic, I volunteer to it.
About a leader: I mostly agree with kwarriorpoet, Darius, Shaka too, strong in a
Pangea, Orange in water, Capac always strong.
If I rightly understood the factions rules/limitations, each Faction is tied to a
governmental civic, so only "despotic" Factions can run the game for a awhile;
I noticed no HR Faction around, so the game will be under despotism civic for
long.
It looks Spi trait is weaker than usual and Pyramids useless (unless Factions are
allowed to change their civic choice) and the Cha value depends on the previous
decision, that is, if a democratic/police/HR faction can arise then Pyramids and
Ind is very important, if not Cha is important.
Can someone enlighten me about these faction things,please?
Best regards,

Pyramids are not useless. If/when that wonder is built by our civ, then a faction will be established to accommodate one of the new civics being offered. For example, building that wonder now opens up a pandora's box of potential new factions and coincidently, the death of many factions. In my games, I typically switch to Republic after the Pyramids and leave it there for a very very long time. Some, may see value in staying a Despotism for a while or a Monarchy or maybe a Democracy or Police State...that's a potential for at least 5 factions right there, then you have different platforms and opinions of goals for the civilization...

Spiritual is only useful if we think that we are going to be changing civics often, i.e. with every rebellion (i.e. new prime faction comes to power.)

It's hard to say, but my gut says our government civics will change about 8-10 times over the course of a full game. Things could get more chaotic or stable in the future...that's hard to tell. However, I feel that Spiritual is a gamble, and only useful if we know ahead of time that we'll change civics enough to make it useful to our people.

Factions only rule for their term, which I believe is a month, now, but a rebellion can occur every two weeks. At the end of a term, elections are held, and a new prime faction is ellected or, the current prime faction could win re-election. However, the number of turns that are played per week is an item that will be part of the faction's platform for election, as well as what their goals are and how often reports will be written for the public to see what's going on. Important to note that a Faction's government civic at the time of their election must remain the civic through out their rule in-game. At the next election, said faction is free to change their government civic.

It's allot to hold onto I know, but I keep throwing this out there to rope more knowledgible individuals into the discussion :)

As to positions: Exploration/War/Foreign Ministry all appeal to me.

As for leader, I see that position more as the wise voice in the room that keeps everyone on track, designates players to run the turns, manages the interplay between the positions, and schedules and mediates meetings/discussions, and finally is our figure head in terms of official relations with other factions.

DS, you definitely understand how the rules were created for this demogame. You also have allot of experience with demogames. From that standpoint alone, I think you'd be invaluable as a leader. If time is a concern, then delegate some of the organization things to those who you're comfortable with and feel you can trust.

I'm not sure how contentious things get in a demogame in terms of election politics, but a PR spokesperson, who controls our public communications could potentially be another excellent position to have.

FYI, it's ironic, but my forum discussion availability is limited to normal EST working hours, lol. So, M-F 0800-1700 EST. Other hours, I'm doing stuff with my wife and kids or busy squeezing in some game time or something else.

That said, we need to find a way to discuss our faction's platform and vote on our leaderhead ASAP, as it sounds like elections are coming up real fast.

I am sending the following confirmed members a PM with a draft of our platform. I'm not jumping the gone on being the first chief, I'm just getting the ball rolling, while I can still get into the forums (see my earlier post). Until private forums are setup, PM hack jobs will have to suffice. Please review and PM comments, and I will reissue updated platform. Feel free to discuss key points in here, but not the whole document all at once, don't want to let the cat completely out of the bag so to speak.

I sent the PM to: daveshack, civgeneral, vanek26owns, lord_joakim, joe harker, ravensfire, fed1943

I know I'm new, but I have a lot of time in front of Civ 4, with strong points generally being either Diplomacy, Strategic Settlement, Military, and Research. I have plenty of ideas on all.

That or I'll just earn my stripes as being an advisor.

:)

Did you all get my PM on a draft for our platform? I have one response so far... In 4 hours, I would like to PM a new draft, incorporating your responses.

Or, in the interest of time, should we just hash it all out here in public?

I got it, but had an all day event yesterday that took up all my slack time.

I got it too, and tried to reply,but not able to (I really know nothing of these computer
things, it looks answer must be written before "send reply" but I didn't realize how to do it).

Best regards,

Click on send reply button, then write message at top of text window in content area (where my message appears), then click submit message.

In the interest of fostering communication among our fellow members and in the interest of fostering transparency to other citizens of our fine nation, I present a draft of a possible election platform. This represents my hackjob based on the original description of our fine faction, and also incorporates the inputs that I have recieved to date (ehem, thank you Joe Harker). Please review and comment. We still haven't gotten to a consensus on our Leader head, and we need to nail down a couple issues, and before we actually issue a platform, let's make sure that we have all seen it. I'm not sure that the PM idea is working as well as I had hoped.

Here it is, and please feel free to comment away!

Election Platform
Tribal Council Faction
In the Beginning…

Leader head
Needs a vote

Game Goals
Research

This will largely depend on our strategic position. Factors such as our civilization’s starting technologies, nearby resources, terrain, and proximity to other civilizations will have a major impact.
However, our over arching desire is to try and secure one of the three early religions, while also getting bronze working, pottery, and agriculture early on.


Domestic

Our current Domestic strategy is to optomize the strategic situation once it is made known to us.
Our faction will focus on growing our industrial, economic, and technological might while maintaining flexibility to handle our strategic situation.


Exploration

Explore as much of the initial landmass as possible.
Find new sites for additional cities, preferably within reach of resources.
Find new civilizations, to assess our strategic position.


Strength

The best way to win civilization is to be strong enough to control your own destiny. We will strive to make our civilization the most revered civilization in the world.


Start an Ancient Wonder

The choice of wonder will depend on our strategic position in the world.


Flexible diplomacy

Always start on peaceful terms, and then allow necessity to dictate future posture towards other civilizations.


Faction Description
The Tribal council faction is lead by a council of equals with the Chief at its head.

The Chief is chosen by the members of our faction, and represents the wisest voice among us.

In general, the Chief presides over the council, and consults with them, recognizing their position of respect within the faction, but his voice is a command to the rest of the tribe and the members of the council.
The Chief has final authority in all matters, but only a foolish chief ignores the advice of his council.
Chiefs are chosen by the tribe, and may either step aside voluntarily or be pushed aside by a unanimous council vote. An election can also be held at the beginning of every new election cycle should the tribe wish to do so. (Needs to be discussed!!!)


The council is seated by individuals, who have demonstrated their superior quality in the position charged to them by the Chief.

These individuals will be chosen based on merit demonstrated through their deeds and their words, and serve at the will of the Chief.
Council decisions are passed by a simple majority, however, the Chief always has the power to override the council.
A seated council member cannot be removed from the council during a moot (meeting) concerning confidence in the Chief.


Current Council positions:

CHIEF
Seat of the Hammer (Domestic Affairs, workers, infrastructure, cities)
Seat of the Axe (Military Affairs)
Seat of the Oracle (Research)
Seat of the Shaman (Religion, and Culture)
Seat of the Falcon (Exploration, Foreign Affairs)


Delegation of authority
Each council member has the right to delegate their function temporarily to another member.

Game Play
Organized by the leader, at a rate and using a play style which promotes role playing by those who want to.

Land Usage
Land is granted by the will of the Chief to his most honorable and deserving subjects/tribe members.
Land may be passed on to another tribe member.
Land may be taken away by the Chief.
What roll land usage will play, other than a signifier of honor within the tribe/faction, in the future, has yet to be determined.

Guiding Principles

Mutual respect between faction members.
Open discussions
Chief consults with the council but has the final say
Only a wise and noble Chief will hold power over the council, and only the worthy may sit at the council.
RP encouraged but not a requirement

So will this faction continue until the end of the game, or as time progresses is it expected to fade away? I'm trying to consider what faction to join, but I hesitate on any as I don't want to be stuck with any one for the rest of the game. I guess my biggest problem is I can't locate the full specifics on factions and guilds.

Methos - I suspect this faction will either be eliminated or evolve as the game progresses. Hmmm, think the Illuminati would be appropriate for the later stages?

As for guidelines, well, there aren't many! We've got a core ruleset that's in progress that lays out a few things, but leaves everything else up to the Factions. One faction is the Prime Faction - their government proposal won the last faction election. That means the rules from their proposal are in effect (so long as they don't conflict with the core rules). The other factions can try to force a rebellion periodically that will cause a new faction election. Think of these as political parties.

Guilds are more for RP or focused on specific issues, and are separate from the factions. While they don't have power, they can represent the voice of many citizens! Think of them as a combination of that group at the corner market, and a lobbying group.

-- Ravensfire

For the ruleset proposal - it looks fairly good. I'm really, REALLY short on time until mid Sunday, so I could only give it a quick glance.

I like the core concept of it - very in line with a tribal council and our starting civic. Flexible, and nicely setup for keeping things quick and to the point.

-- Ravensfire

I'm glad to see someone was willing to carry things forward, as I'm chronically short of time these days.

I can't vote for the next week probably, as I will have troubles getting online. I know it's a poor initial representation for me, but I'm not gone yet.

I agree with the proposal.

It is a very good start to the game.

Time will tell what more is needed.

Best regards,

Methos: You can also change factions should you want. Also this faction is tied to the despotism civic, so once we get other civics opened, this faction will most likely disappear (although a new faction with a new civic could be based on this faction)

Everything looks fine to me.

There is one thing, though, and again, as a newbie, I'm not sure how much leeway I have in all this, but I think we should be a conglomerate of several families, i.e. clans, in which each clan has a strength in which they excel at, be it farming, hunting, diplomacy, mysticism, etc.

Each person within the tribal council represents the leader of their clan.

Should we go ahead and use a forum on croxis's site? I've got some ideas that need discussion.

Definitely! :)

Yes, as you can see, there are several key items left to discuss from my rough draft of the platform.

FYI, I signed up as kwarriorpoet in the faction subforum that Croixis setup.

Faction forum memberships updated.

Registered on the alternate forums.

Comment though - do we really *need* a private forum? Anything for the Civ4 game should probably be done here, and I'm just not sure that our metagame discussions will be that important.

-- Ravensfire

I expect it to be a passing fad, and agree with the concern about having an extra place taking away from the community feel.

1) Well, I've put some stuff about our platform in the private faction subforum area.
2) However, in the interest of getting our platform finalized, and since I have greater access to the site than others during the day, PM me a nominee for our chief. FYI, I'm nominating DaveShack for the following reason: (but feel free to nominate whomever you wish via PM) Even though he has less time than some of us to be on these forums, he has the respect at least of other influencial members of the demogame, and understands how people like Provolution, Strider, Ice2k4, and other members from previous demogames, think.
3) PM me your top two picks from the following list for our leaderhead:
Huyana Capac (FIN/IND), Pericles (PHI/CRE), Pacal (FIN/SPI), or Alexander (PHI/AGG), Sitting Bull (PHI/PRO), Shaka (AGG/EXP), Augustus Caesar (IND/IMP), and Darius I (FIN/ORG)

Still looking for PM inputs concerning the platform or posted comments, too. Need to have platform nailed down by tomorrow.

The main function of the faction subforums was simply an organization function -- it would be a lot to ask thunderfall to keep making and deleting Faction subforums in the event the faction was large and needed a lot of threads to discuss their internal workings. The idea to make them private for metagame discussion was introduced by others. Mine were going to be at least read only to other members.

Remind me again which faction platform is the current version?

As for the position of Chief, I'm certainly able and willing but I'm not sure that choosing me is the right direction to go. The game is oriented towards role play, or at least that's what we're aiming for, and I am far from the best at that aspect of the game. In fact, I may not be far from the worst. Also my RL tends to get extremely intense, often without warning, though you can always role play that with some interesting dialogue about the Chief being missing who's in charge, etc.

Dave, so far, out of 4 PMs I've recieved, you are the leading candidate for Chief. Here is the latest version. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6604143&postcount=45)

We still need to decide on a leader head:
Huayna Capac is leading the nomination process for our leader head, but there is also strong pulling for Augustus Ceasar and Darius I (these are the only leaders with more than one vote.

As for positions, it seems wise to combine Axe and Falcon under the Falcon position, and put Axe and Oracle in reserve. For now, Shaman would be in charge of tech, religion and culture, Falcon would be in charge of military and exploration, and Hammer in charge of domestic issues.

The rest seems to be ok with every one of the 5 PMs I've recieved. There is some significant call for clarification regarding the designated player.

Those are the items that need to be cleared up ASAP.

I just registered myself in the croxis site (thanks methos for your help).
I got immediately the automatic answer and now I'm waiting croxis allows me,please.
BTW, I also vote on DaveShack for Chief.
Best regards,

Well since DS has already been nominated and in fact would make a great chief, I'll also throw my support in for kwarriorpoet. As Ravensfire has stated, kwarriorpoet has really shown his enthusiasm and willingness to help keep the game moving.

For leaders my vote would be random. I don't really care who we play.

Well since DS has already been nominated and in fact would make a great chief, I'll also throw my support in for kwarriorpoet. As Ravensfire has stated, kwarriorpoet has really shown his enthusiasm and willingness to help keep the game moving.

For leaders my vote would be random. I don't really care who we play.

So far, by my count, that's 4 for DS, and 2 votes for me. I will serve whomever and however I am needed.

PM sent -- what's the updated count?

Given we're not getting much traffic in the private forum, maybe we should just go open and do it here? Don't just dive in though, see if anyone (yourself included) thinks we need a little more polish first. :)

DS, et. all, we have a tie now between myself and DS for chief at 4 to 4. I don't think I've heard from CivGeneral, lord_joakim, mrief, georgeop, goodgame, and irondrum.

I am now working on including some more updates based on excellent inputs for our platform. I will post again soon.

As for leaderhead, Huayna Capac is now solidly in the lead. Any serious concerns with Huayna?

Updated platform coming soon this afternoon.

Huayna works for me. Got the PM - I'll try to reply this evening.

-- Ravensfire

Not too shabby!

Comment 1: Role playing, not Roll playing. The second is generally considered to be a Bad Thing(tm).

Comment 2: More detail in the game play section than I'd like, but that's just me - no worries.

Comment 3: Put Research last - while we must focus on it, the other goals are more important at first.

-- Ravensfire

Just sent a reply to Pm didn't realise we were voting for leaderheads :blush:

Huayna is not a bad choice at all.

Comment 2: More detail in the game play section than I'd like, but that's just me - no worries.

That's my doing, hoping to sway a few voters with a couple of the features. It is much more verbose than I would have used, but does pretty much say the same thing as suggested.

Go ahead and post it please.

Election Platform
Tribal Council Faction
In the Beginning…

Leader head
Huayna Capac (IND/FIN)

Game Goals
Research

This will largely depend on our strategic position. Factors such as our civilization’s starting technologies, nearby resources, terrain, and proximity to other civilizations will have a major impact.
However, our over arching desire is to try and secure one of the three early religions, while also getting bronze working, pottery, and agriculture early on.


Domestic

Our current Domestic strategy is to optomize the strategic situation once it is made known to us.
Our faction will focus on growing our industrial, economic, and technological might while maintaining flexibility to handle our strategic situation.


Exploration

Explore as much of the initial landmass as possible.
Find new sites for additional cities, preferably within reach of resources.
Find new civilizations, to assess our strategic position.


Strength

The best way to win civilization is to be strong enough to control your own destiny. We will strive to make our civilization the most revered civilization in the world.


Start an Ancient Wonder

The choice of wonder will depend on our strategic position in the world.


Flexible diplomacy

Always start on peaceful terms, and then allow necessity to dictate future posture towards other civilizations.


Faction Description
The Tribal council faction is lead by a council of equals with the Chief at its head.

The Chief is chosen by the members of our faction, and represents the wisest voice among us.

In general, the Chief presides over the council, and consults with them, recognizing their position of respect within the faction, but his voice is a command to the rest of the tribe and the members of the council.
The Chief has final authority in all matters, but only a foolish chief ignores the advice of his council.
Chiefs are chosen by the tribe, and may either step aside voluntarily or be pushed aside by a unanimous council vote. An election can also be held at the beginning of every new election cycle should the tribe wish to do so. (Needs to be discussed!!!)


The council is seated by individuals, who have demonstrated their superior quality in the position charged to them by the Chief.

These individuals will be chosen based on merit demonstrated through their deeds and their words, and serve at the will of the Chief.
Council decisions are passed by a simple majority, however, the Chief always has the power to override the council.
A seated council member cannot be removed from the council during a moot (meeting) concerning confidence in the Chief.


Current Council positions:

CHIEF
Seat of the Hammer (Domestic Affairs, workers, infrastructure, cities)
(Future Seat) Seat of the Axe (Military Affairs)
(Future Seat) Seat of the Oracle (Research)
Seat of the Shaman (Research, Religion, and Culture)
Seat of the Falcon (Military, Exploration, Foreign Affairs)


Delegation of authority
Each council member has the right to delegate their function temporarily to another member.

Game Play
Will occur during open chat with Civnation when possible, and to encourage roll-playing of significant events. In order to streamline this roll-playing experience, the Chief will disignate a player, who may be in faction or non-aligned, based on consent of the faction. This would also require a designated surrogate who does not have to be a faction member. The Council will present their plans at the beginning of the chat. The members of the faction, who do not have a seat on the council are still free to make statements in the chat, and we’d urge roll-playing reactions, especially for enhancing the fun of the experience.

Additionally, we’ll allow citizens to “inhabit” cities and to “move” to other cities. Moves would be done before and during game play, but only one move allowed per session. This is just for roll-playing aesthetics. However, this could be a great way to run local politics to try to persuade a council member to get a certain building or unit or improvement accomplished.

Sessions will typically run fluidly until one of the following happens (the list is just an example, and just a pause for RP reasons, but depending on what happens, could result in a true stop for discussions), but be no more than 10 turns long, with a 2-5 day break. The expectation is to complete 50 turns.


Finding a new kind of resource
Meeting a new people
Animal sightings or attacks
Coastline found, if that is novel
Tech finishes
Build finishes




Land Usage
Land is granted by the will of the Chief to his most honorable and deserving subjects/tribe members.
Land may be passed on to another tribe member.
Land may be taken away by the Chief.
What roll land usage will play, other than a signifier of honor within the tribe/faction, in the future, has yet to be determined.

Guiding Principles

Mutual respect between faction members.
Open discussions
Chief consults with the council but has the final say
Only a wise and noble Chief will hold power over the council, and only the worthy may sit at the council.
RP encouraged but not a requirement

The above was posted as our final election platform for the prime faction election! Thank you all for the great work and comments to help get this platform completed! We appear to be the first. Best of luck to us all.

We need to identify the top 3 (or more) posts and who will hold them.

Those willing to serve in the seats of the Hammer, Falcon, and Shaman should post their interest. In the faction's spirit of openness, independent citizens are also encouraged to apply, as they will be considered.

Just to clarify, who's the chief? :)

There is a tie for chief still, just based on posts in this faction forum and the PMs I have recieved. As for the three council positions. We should have a pool of ten or so to draw from. Anyone contributing to the demo succession game should probably be in the pool, and anyone who specifies an interest in our forum. My other thought is that we could take applications?

If I still can, can I be a member of the Tribal Council?

Yes, visit the Tribal Council sign up thread. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267168)

I'm back.

Though very new, the inclusion as the Hammer would intrigue me. Is it possible for me to be the domestic advisor?

Welcome back Lord Joakim! Well, we still need to officially complete the vote for Chief. After that, we'll decide positions, but I will record your wish :)

Well, DaveShack appears to be very good at organizing (Creating the whole thing here), but kwarriorpoet does show much enthusiasm as Methos said. I am still unsure on whom to vote for. Can I possibly abstain? I will vote for the loser for whatever Advisor position he wants.

I show that Fed1943 and lord_joakim have interest in the Hammer seat and I have interest in the Falcon Seat. We need people with an interest in the Shaman seat and other nominees for the other seats as well. Finally, we need more votes concerning the chief position.

I have an interest in the Shamen position and i vote for DS, although i fully recomend kwarriorpoet in any position he takes! :)

Thanks, Joe! I will be more than happy to have DS at the reigns. If it's alright, I would definitely like to hold the seat of Falcon.

I've also been engaging on our behalf in the debates so far for the election, but judging from Provo's statements, I do not believe that answering debates or actively participating is limited to the role of the chief. DS, is that ok with you?

@Methos: You didn't want a seat at the council?
@DaveShack: You now lead the vote by 6 to 4. I kneel to your wise authority and pledge my mind and body to the faction's service.

There is at the moment only contention for the Hammer Seat. I would like to give Methos a chance to say he is not interested as well as any other member of the faction or non-member...say another day?

yeah give 24 hours more

I'm not a member of your faction, but the recent Triad developments in addition to lack of support elsewhere have made the winds blow me your way. I would like to offer several leaderhead choices from the proposed list.

Darius I: Not only does he provide extra commerce and easier expansion through fast courthouses, but those same traits allow for more leeway with the tech and other sliders. Financial is a versatile trait, and most citizens probably will not regret it even if your faction is not eternal. We could only hope to have the Greeks and/or Alexander as (a) rival(s)...

Sitting Bull: Very tribal, well protected ;), and a great opportunity for roleplay specialists.

Pacal: Spiritual will be beneficial for anticipated civics changes (although I'm not so sure how often non-government civics will be allowed to change). If we get a Mesoamerican civ, blood sacrifice roleplay?

@Methos: You didn't want a seat at the council?

There is at the moment only contention for the Hammer Seat.

All positions currently have someone wanting the seat? :hmm: I think I'll pass this turn. Long live the Tribal Council!!!

Fellow members - I'd like to request that we continue to take the high round in the current Faction debate. The Triad faction has shifted to hostile posts, attacks on members, insinuations and a, ummm, interesting view of the truth.

We've been very good about staying above that, and not responding to the taunts and attacks that some Triad members have used. Let's stay that way. Compare the platforms, highlighting our strengths and responding to the questions posed by anyone.

Given the rather acrimonious relationship I have with a certain member of the Triad, I regretfully suspect he will continue with his attacks on myself and this group simply because I belong to it. I urge everyone to do as I do, and simply ignore the posts. Like the wind, the words blow past and can only affect you if you allow it.

We've got a solid platform that is inclusive - we WANT everyone to be involved! It's not just about our Faction, it's about our Tribe succeeding. Our view that everyone should be able to help run the Government, even those from other factions, is a major difference between our proposal and theirs. That's a major point that we should be emphasizing - Tribal Council includes everyone.

-- Ravensfire

I'd even prefer to say Tribal Council includes everyone and not try to claim Triad excludes everyone else. Not saying it still implies the same thing, and avoids the negativity.

Currently is there just the two factions? That sucks! The game would be more interesting with multiple factions.

I'm guessing Provo saw that the Tribal Council was more than likely going to win, so he created his Triad in order to counter it. I believe it was Provo who created it. Anyway, with only two parties that kind of lessens the entertainment fun of the game. Hopefully as it progresses, other factions will be created.

@Daveshack - Good point, works for me!

@Methos - There are multiple Factions, but several of the smaller factions formed a Coalition - the Triad. From a size perspective, you can't fault their reasoning. We are the largest Faction by quite a bit. Forming a Coalition as they did is actually a great example of Factional politics - they had to create a platform that all three sides were happy with, and appear to have succeeded.

I'm not sure who created it, but you've got to give them credit where it's due. It probably was a smart decision on their part, but who knows - we might get some in-fighting in that coalition, especially if they do become Prime Faction. That could be interesting to watch.

-- Ravensfire

Deleted due to pour judgement represented in the post.

It seems to me that each faction will have it's own area to control and cities to control, with the Philopsoical (spelt badly) faction as the head of the government.

Here's an outreach program to try:

Give the Warlord faction the right to name military units. Not sure what special right to give the other factions or independents.

Yes, I think the victorious faction will definitely need to consider reaching out to the losing faction. Perhaps raise the question in the debate?

@Daveshack - Good point, works for me!

@Methos - There are multiple Factions, but several of the smaller factions formed a Coalition - the Triad. From a size perspective, you can't fault their reasoning. We are the largest Faction by quite a bit. Forming a Coalition as they did is actually a great example of Factional politics - they had to create a platform that all three sides were happy with, and appear to have succeeded.

I'm not sure who created it, but you've got to give them credit where it's due. It probably was a smart decision on their part, but who knows - we might get some in-fighting in that coalition, especially if they do become Prime Faction. That could be interesting to watch.

-- Ravensfire

As a glorified independent, I felt alienated by this particular allying of interests. I foresee that in-fighting among the Triads is guaranteed. Tied horses going in multiple directions and such...

Tied horses going in multiple directions and such...

Quartering....ouch! :cringe:

Quartering....ouch! :cringe:

Exactly. :deadhorse:

I asked them how disputes would be settled...and all that was mentioned was a Triad Chamber...sounds like the loudest poster wins or is there a vote requiring 2/3?

(selacious content deleted)

...I'm headed over to the Pub. I'll keep myself out of the fray for a while...cool off a bit, maybe.

I know I'm not supposed to post here, but I have a few things to say.
I started the alliance, well, actually my faction did. We saw that the three factions that consist of the Triad, had alot of the same vision, and we were able to incorporate everyone's ideas into a platform. You can put the credit wherever you feel is most comfortable for you, but this is the facts. Provo is an active poster, and he advocates our position, as most of our faction does. This in no means makes him in control, so please calm down on bashing him. As for us being unoriginal, that claim is just as atrocious as you claim we are. We don't have past demogames to rip ideas from, so when we come up with an idea, even if it was used in a past demogame, its original to us. That is what we stand for, originality, as we are mostly new to the demogame. You can keep thinking that we are "atrocious" and "unoriginal" but we, the Triad, look above such baseless arguements, as we have a vision. And no matter what trashtalk is thrown our way, our vision will still stand.

Moderator, please feel free to delete or move this post if neccassary.

Respectfully, Shattered, we have not posted in any other Faction threads. Kindly do not post in ours.

-- Ravensfire

I don't want this to get out of hand in either direction. We are seeing election posturing, not anything which should be extended into personal animosities.

I believe I need to step down as a member of this faction. I've decided to have a little fun with the ruleset, so I've created a faction of my own. I don't expect to win, nor even get anyone to vote for me, but I do plan on having some fun.

I believe I need to step down as a member of this faction. I've decided to have a little fun with the ruleset, so I've created a faction of my own. I don't expect to win, nor even get anyone to vote for me, but I do plan on having some fun.

Sorry to see you head off, but quite excited to see what you put together!

-- Ravensfire

I know I'm not supposed to post here, but I have a few things to say.

Hmmm....

I started the alliance, well, actually my faction did. We saw that the three factions that consist of the Triad, had alot of the same vision...


Really, I don't see it...

This in no means makes him in control, so please calm down on bashing him.
I only attack false statements and propaganda and misrepresentations of actual events and facts. But you are right about one thing, I shouldn't be mentioning any one person.

As for us being unoriginal, that claim is just as atrocious as you claim we are.

Who said you were not original? I merely am pressing you on the point that somehow your ideas are more original than the ideas of others, which has been a core idea in your debate posts to date.

Whan have I said you were attrocious?

We don't have past demogames to rip ideas from, so when we come up with an idea, even if it was used in a past demogame, its original to us.

Then kindly state the idea without making any claims subtle or otherwise to being an ingenious inventor of them.


...trash talk...

So, I state an educated personal opinion concerning your platform and your response is to think that I am trash talking you?

Wow...

...I think NZL was a convenient pick, since he does not post much, he is a relatively unknown, and most of the criticism gets directed at Provo...

I know ravensfire doesn't like me [or anyone not in Tribal Faction] to post here, but i have the right to defend myself.
First and foremost, I'm more an action-guy than a words-guy. Second, i joined this forum in mid March 2008. Do you want me to post 5.000 replies in 10 days? And third, if u or anyone wants to criticize me instead of Provo, I'd be happy to provide u/them with a response. I promise I won't cry ;).

I know ravensfire doesn't like me [or anyone not in Tribal Faction] to post here, but i have the right to defend myself.
First and foremost, I'm more an action-guy than a words-guy. Second, i joined this forum in mid March 2008. Do you want me to post 5.000 replies in 10 days? And third, if u or anyone wants to criticize me instead of Provo, I'd be happy to provide u/them with a response. I promise I won't cry ;).

1) You do have that right.
2) Thread count not important. Substance, concerning the choices in the Triad platform is.
3) I don't like cry babies.

1) Thanks
2) See here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=268408) for Warlord contribution to Triad Platform
3) Me neither :)

I know ravensfire doesn't like me [or anyone not in Tribal Faction] to post here, but i have the right to defend myself.
That's quite an assumption there, NZL, and very, very wrong.

There is only one person that I've got a less than pleasant opinion of, and it's quite well deserved.

-- Ravensfire

Last time I checked slandering and name calling was considered infraction worthy. Wise up alittle buddy. No one wants to bring mods into this.

Too late. That post earned him a yellow card.
And what you are doing, Ballazic, is a mild form of PDMA. Better not go down that road ;)

Rik

I don't want this to get out of hand in either direction. We are seeing election posturing, not anything which should be extended into personal animosities.

Consider the above to be not quite a mod action, but a bit more than a simple comment. I'd rather not have to start handing out points, but this being a faction I started doesn't grant any immunity.

kwarriorpoet and ravensfire, please do not direct comments in this thread to people outside of our faction. They then feel the need to post in our thread and this thread should be where we come to make decisions. I will not tell you to not go discuss things with them in other threads, I just ask to keep this thread about us. I'm also asking that because you are both members of our Council and I want to see us take the high road. At least wait until we lose an election before we start the underhanded actions ;)

Now - let's elect some advisors :D

I want to be the Hammer. As I'm new, though, I might suggest someone else. I still want to take it, as I want to learn and play :)

We need to list 3 positions (Chief + 2) and candidates in the election poll. Candidates for seats are

Hammer : lord_joakim / Fed1943
Falcon : kwarriorpoet
Shaman: none

Since nobody has asked for the Shaman seat, I'm thinking about saying the Chief will open it up applications for any citizen. First, would either lord_joakim or Fed1943 like to take Shaman?

Shaman: none

I did! :)

But if Fed, or the lord want a go i am happy to for them to do it instead.

I did! :)

But if Fed, or the lord want a go i am happy to for them to do it instead.

Cool, now they can stick with the area they volunteered for.

No problem!
If I'm chosen to the Hammer task I'll kindly ask lord_Joakim to assist me; If he
will be the chosen I volunteer myself to assist him.
(If I'm not wrong the true role of an counsellor is to say WHY he deems an option better than any other, to let the leader to take an informed decision. So, two students/advisors shall discuss and see and show farther.)
Best regards,

Exactly, plus the Council also seeks the opinions of the tribe and answers their concerns. :)

No problem!
If I'm chosen to the Hammer task I'll kindly ask lord_Joakim to assist me; If he
will be the chosen I volunteer myself to assist him.
(If I'm not wrong the true role of an counsellor is to say WHY he deems an option better than any other, to let the leader to take an informed decision. So, two students/advisors shall discuss and see and show farther.)
Best regards,

Then I'll assist you :) It's probably the better for the faction - I'm not the oldest player in Democracy games.

Just a reminder, fellow members of the Tribal Council, the poll for determining our Prime Faction is up!

Just click here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=269194) and vote!

-- Ravensfire

How many people do we now have in our faction?

Regretfully, not enough to overcome the Triad Coalition. Our concept of an open, participative tribe fell to the brutal despotism of the Triad. I just hope that the system in practice is more organized and open than their proposal is.

For now, Tribal Council members, we need to continue to work together as a Faction. Through a single voice, we have a better chance of effecting change and influencing the path of our nation. In addition, we need to watch for signs of the coalition fracturing and of dissatisfaction with the Triad. If the opportunity presents itself, rebellion is an option!

-- Ravensfire

Form alliances with other factions, get thair members to vote for you for the benefits you will show them. Its called lobbying :rolleyes: . (go after poverty club first, they officialy set out the last election, they want someone slightly more democtatic i think)
p.s. sorry im not in your faction and i shouldnt be posting here, but triads too powerful, i like an even footing for at least the top two factions.

I just did the math, and posted the results in the poll. By forming a massive faction, the way that they did, they can effectively do whatever they want until our population grows, and we get more active citizens on board. I am reserving judgement of the Triad for now. I will support them as any loyal citizen would, until I see reason to do otherwise. Of the three factions in the Triad, I do have the most faith in the Phylosopher's faction. The Phylosophers has 20 of the 34 members in the Triad. That's 34 of the possible 70 voters...

@ Dave, and any other mods out there:
How can we verify that everyone who voted was a registered citizen?

@ Tribal council in general:
I would expect the Triad to outright ignore us. We are the second largest faction now and strong enough to mount a rebellion if they do run into problems. I would expect to be able to mount a rebellion too soon though, but we may have a better shot once more citizens register and/or joing the Tribal Council or perhaps when we can RP different civic options, etc...

@ Dave, and any other mods out there:
How can we verify that everyone who voted was a registered citizen?

IMO that's using user groups. You wouldn't be able to vote if you weren't a member of the group and someone would be assigned to watch who the group members are.

Remember that the factions are civic based and as other civics become available old powerful factions will disappear. There's a good chance by the end of the first term a new civic will be known and the Triad will break up as players will want to use the new civic. I fully expect (and look forward to) this happening a lot, especially as more civics become available.

Now if the Triad, or any group, continues to band together every election to force their group to win, then that would definitely be underhanded and I can see players starting to leave, but 1) I've heard mumblings about the Triad probably breaking up after this term, and 2) some of the strong supporters for the Triad also want to keep players, so I would think (and hope) they wouldn't do something that is counter productive in gaining more players.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, since this game is faction and civic based, so I'm fully expecting to see factions change frequently as the game progresses.

My hopes reside wrapped in the soothing words that you have so aptly presented.

IMO that's using user groups. You wouldn't be able to vote if you weren't a member of the group and someone would be assigned to watch who the group members are.

Remember that the factions are civic based and as other civics become available old powerful factions will disappear. There's a good chance by the end of the first term a new civic will be known and the Triad will break up as players will want to use the new civic. I fully expect (and look forward to) this happening a lot, especially as more civics become available.

Now if the Triad, or any group, continues to band together every election to force their group to win, then that would definitely be underhanded and I can see players starting to leave, but 1) I've heard mumblings about the Triad probably breaking up after this term, and 2) some of the strong supporters for the Triad also want to keep players, so I would think (and hope) they wouldn't do something that is counter productive in gaining more players.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, since this game is faction and civic based, I'm fully expecting to see factions change frequently as the game progresses.

The "Surf & Turf Society" is not the item I mentioned in my PM. The item in the PM doesn't need any techs.
The forum (http://cfc.croxis.net/forum) mentioned in the PM can be found at this link (http://cfc.croxis.net/forum).

By forming a massive faction, the way that they did, they can effectively do whatever they want until our population grows, and we get more active citizens on board.
We can also just wait for the inevitable loss of citizens the demo games always have. The Tribal Council seems to be full of citizens that will stick around.

I look forward to additional discussion here and at the private faction forums as the game kicks off, don't lose heart people! We are still strong, though we may not yet hold the reigns of power.

I never lose heart! Everything is just starting; and honestly,until now,
they are doing good work.
And yes, as Factions are connected to civics, it looks all current
Factions shall be dead when game,that is research,goes on.
Best regards,

*walks into the hut*

Anything I can do?

vra, our faction is engaged in efforts to stay united and to basically keep our eyes and ears open. As the Triad have won the first election as prime faction, our job now is to essentially be engaged and supportive while we await a future election that may bring us to power.

They are giving away free land plots in Arete, and I think we should all go for one, as we need to start making a mauve power wise.

Factions and Guilds may now take part (as a group) in the Church of Giruvegan Gambit system. This will allow the group to earn prestige with the church.

To take part choose one of the following "gambits" that most closely aligns to your group:


Loyal
Adventurous
Intellectual
Leader

As you might know, I have created a faction honor system (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=269657). Check it out and please make nominations.

Please check out our private faction forums for an important topic for all faction members to discuss.http://cfc.croxis.net/forum/

Sorry, but can you please email me the password?

fed1943 ta hotmail tod com

Best regards,

Sorry, but can you please email me the password?


If you click on the login link from the index page, it has a "forgot password" link. Or you might need to check with Croxis to see if he can reset it.

I am here for one thing and one thing only, rebellion. The rebelllion has been triggered and I welcome everyone to assist in removing the Triad from power!

Now that the attempt is started, the best approach is to vote in favor and start gathering ourselves for an election should the vote go against the Triad.

We need to make sure people vote though.

Seeing as we are working together on this one I suggest we do everything we can!If the rebellion fails The Triad will have an oppertunity to solidify itself!

1) Process questions:
I think that a vote of confidence should be held at the mid-point of every month long term to determine whether a rebellion occurs or not.
2) Active roster:
How many people do we have active still in our faction that could vote?
3) Should this action succeed, I think we will need to seriously work on our image for a successful election.

I have not posted in a while, but I have voted. I like your ideas as well about a mid-term vote of confidence.

I think the rebellion covers a no-confidence vote. A "state of the DG" poll would be helpful for the Prime Faction to see how they're doing, and what can be changed. It's a shame that the Tribal Faction had to step up, and show our "ruling overlords" that they had problems.

We do need to work on our image, but it's rather difficult with the Triad clearly stating that they only care about internal discussions and strategies. How does one participate when not everything is done in the open? The comments by our members in the few strategy threads is extremely helpful, however. When the new Prime Faction election is held, we'll be able to hold our heads high, and point to our rules that reflect our consistent policy of inclusion and planning. We can point to our first proposal, which is very opposite of what the Triad did. I suspect that we'll see competing proposals very similar to ours, and responding to our comments about the Triad failures.

I think we can take our first proposal, and revamp sections of it to improve it and make sure it reflects our view and the needs of all citizens.

-- Ravensfire

I have some ideas for a revised proposal. Maybe some private strategizing would be a good idea.

(yawn) Alliance Forum Posted... the Freedom Coalition. Some1 else take it over now im going to sleep. Post on the Forum and tell me what you think and what needs to change

To all of my friends and respected colleagues in Tribal Faction; I have enjoyed my time with you. I now feel that I can be more effective to this community with a new faction that I am now forming. I wish you all the best, and I look forward to one day possibly working with the Tribal Faction in the future as we all work to build a better Aretan society.

Chin up friends, the Sun also rises :)

To all of my friends and respected colleagues in Tribal Faction; I have enjoyed my time with you. I now feel that I can be more effective to this community with a new faction that I am now forming. I wish you all the best, and I look forward to one day possibly working with the Tribal Faction in the future as we all work to build a better Aretan society.

Chin up friends, the Sun also rises :)

Sounds like you've got a great idea and are off to a good start! Good luck!

-- Ravensfire

If i sign up here do i
A) Have to actually role play to any extent?
B) regularly visit the croxis site? its not that i don't want too just i know i'll forget!

I am contemplating signing up to be a faction because right now im just the voice that complains after an election but hasn't voted.

No role play is required of anyone. The organization we have is there to feature role play so that it doesn't get drowned in number crunching :bts: stuff, but it's certainly not a requirement.

The croxis site doesn't get much traffic from this faction. I think we have maybe 12 total posts on the whole faction forum. In my opinion, the only reason we have one is for the minimal benefit it could provide vs. sending a bunch of PMs, if more people bothered to go there.

To all of my friends and respected colleagues in Tribal Faction; I have enjoyed my time with you. I now feel that I can be more effective to this community with a new faction that I am now forming. I wish you all the best, and I look forward to one day possibly working with the Tribal Faction in the future as we all work to build a better Aretan society.

Chin up friends, the Sun also rises :)

I think the community needs this type of revitalization, best of luck!

I think a little clearing of the air is needed with respect to "democracy" and its place in ancient societies. Many people in the DG have objected to the idea of "despots" consulting the people, claiming that we should wait until representation before we start to add voting, or opinion polls, or other forms of citizen input. This seems to be based on the idea that in ancient times, the leader could do whatever he wanted to without repurcussions. It is a popular belief, and on the surface it seems to make sense, but if you consider that "history" concerns primarily the things which stand out to the historian, it becomes clear that despots did not in fact rule with an iron fist, but by motivating their people.

What's that, you ask, rule by motivation? Yes I say, few if any of the great historical works that we admire today were accomplished through the mere whim of despots. How could an individual wake up one day and say to 10,000 men "pick up your spears and follow me to war" on just a whim, without motivation? No, ancient leaders did not in fact wake up and become the rulers of their people. They had to earn the respect of the people who followed them, by proving themselves in battle or showing themselves to be just. Historians wrote about the good leaders -- the ones who did not get their people to follow don't even get a postscript, except sometimes to note their deaths as victims of the leaders who did have followers.

To assume that in the DG a leader of a faction should be able to just take over supreme control of the game is a fallacy based on misunderstanding of history. True leaders gain their positions by consent of their followers. They obtain that consent by listening and acting when the people need them. They consult their advisors and act in the people's best interests. When they want to pursue a course of action, they win the people over by oratory and gauge their support by the size of their audience.

This is voting, in practice if not in name. How do we, in the demogame, know how many people support our ideas? What mechanism can tell us if we are giving a speech to a deserted clearing, or if our people are present and giving us thunderous applause? We cannot rely on comments alone to tell if the people like an idea, because no more than half of them say anything. We cannot rely on the most vocal people to tell us what the general population wants. How then can we do what historical despots did? By using the mechanism the forum provides. We need to use polls to find out if our actions are accepted by the people.

I am certain that there will be people who will say, but that's democracy and we're role playing despotism. But it is not, and there is a key verifiable difference between the two. The difference between a despot who listens to the people and a democracy is the absence or presence of law requiring the vote to be obeyed. A despot is not required to follow the people's wishes, where a democratic leader is required to do so.

Some will say, but we changed this democracy game to have less polling because there was too much polling in previous games. They are assuming that because I assert that some polling is necessary, that I think that everything should be polled. Our historical reference the despot did not bother to seek the people's opinion on many things. On many other things he didn't bother to even get involved. It is fair to say that Alexander didn't pay any attention to whether his people preferred to live in the forest and produce things, or live in the fields and grow crops. He cared if there was enough food, but not which people produced it. Similarly, the despot of the demogame should not be concerned with tile allocations, unit movements, and other local or minor issues. The demogame's despots should focus on key issues of the day, like direction of expansion, war and peace, and other strategic planning issues. And they need to approach the big picture items from the point of view of motivating the people. They should formulate plans and ask the people if they approve. They should not fear going forward with a plan without the people's consent (aside from possibly losing the next prime faction election), but they should be interested in whether the people support the plan.

All role playing aside, this is a cooperative venture. A select few should not assume that their vision is shared by the people. The price we all pay if those in power fail to satisfy the needs of the people is the same fate ancient despots would face if they failed their people. An ancient leader without the support of his people might find himself in a deserted village, or alone on the battlefield after his "followers" have surrendered or even joined the enemy. If we don't respond to our friends and neighbors they will vote us out, with their feet as they walk away from the game never to return.

So yes, I support a little polling in this game. Poll the big stuff like high level strategy, tech path, and other long-reaching decisions. We should not give our leaders a free run for a month just because they win the prime faction election, and we should not give them a free pass on total control over the game, lest we find at the end of the month a game that we don't feel like playing any more.

I actually agree on polling technologies and war declarations, since that was what happened historically. Despots could for example not dictate innovations etc. (Sorry, this was not a threadjack, but voicing support for polling this).

No problem, and thanks for the comment!

I never really wanted to lead this faction in the first place. Since my preferred replacement has left, I don't see much point in continuing here. If anyone wants to keep the faction alive, please take over.

Aww stop it dave ur gona make me cry... And the last great resistance to the evil triad has fallen... Dave, your welcome in any faction I'm part of. Are you leaving or just disolving the faction?

I seccond that invite! But, are you leaving the faction to be neutral of no?

Don't know, it depends on whether anyone decides to take it up. Could be independent, could join a faction, could stay here... ;)

Don't worry about resisting the Triad, I'm still involved. I just don't have time to carry a faction right now.