I don't know if anyone else is experiencing this but I certainly am in most my games. I never see China build the great wall, perhaps more barbarians should be set on them to soften them up for the Mongols and encourage the great wall, but this isn't my main problem.

My problem is Spain. They always build it in my games(!?)
They seem to build it before Portugal spawns judging by the walls shape. Shouldn't Spain focus on the very real Eurasian threat rather than a non-existant barbarian one?

It's probably bad luck since it always happens to me but has anyone else had this? I have quiet a few problems with Spain actually, which I would like to see tweaked, and it's not at all because I'm half Spanish; it's for historical and gameplay reasons.

I think Spain shouldn't build Cadiz often as it messes with the Portugese border (unless they build it on the gibraltar rock, Seville is preferable though), nor should they build Valencia since it lets France's borders run over (Barcelona is better). Perhaps it is completely random as it is but in my games I often see Cadiz and Valenzia and sometimes Leon. I also think there should be a celtic city or two in the north to allow Rome to conquer rather than settle for the 3000BC start.

My post is mainly to see if anyone else see's Spain build the wall a lot or never see China build it. The great wall is a wonder which is important to have more or less right since it leaves a geographical imprint on the map for the remainder of the game. (I'm talking about Spain building the wall on the 600AD start by the way.)

Sometimes Spain builds it, but certainly not always. Even Mali builds it sometimes. Russia, Germany, Arabia and China build it too.
Yes, Spain builds it a lot, but not more than a third of all games.

Sometimes Spain builds it, but certainly not always. Even Mali builds it sometimes. Russia, Germany, Arabia and China build it too.
Yes, Spain builds it a lot, but not more than a third of all games.

I've never seen Mali, Russia or Germany build it myself. But for Spain to be wasting :hammers: on the great wall (given that it doesn't have any stone,) when it could be building citadels and not messing up the map for defence of nothing seems silly to me. Even if it is only a third of your games, it's still a lot. I only mentioned it because I think it's been 5 games in a row they've built it now for me.

Spain builds it in probably about half of my games (BTS, 600AD start). I agree also that Barcelona is better than velencia, but personally I like Granada built in the south of spain, it has more room, is closer to Sardinia/Corsica and doesnt steal Casablancas sheep.

I nearly always see Persia build it...

Building the Great Wall in the AD Start? What version are you playing? I usually only see independent India build the Great Wall, along with the Parthenon and the Oracle. China builds it sometimes, but I see them focus on the Colosseum more so than the Great Wall.

it's true. It's a problem of the 600AD start, but I've found the solution.

The wall will be pre-built in independent Xi'an, but I've tweaked the game setup in a way that the graphical wall will extend in a way similar to the real one (rather than just closing Xian)

Awsome, now I really cant wait for the next release ;)

Noooo, don't let it be prebuilt. I usually build it as either the Germans or Spanish. It's good to be able to build one wonder early for great people generation. What about Arabia and even Russia who have to deal with barbs frequently--it would be unfair to them!
And if China gets it automatically when "independent" Xian flips to them, that kinda obviates the 3rd criterion (at least partially since now China only has to worry about Mongols)

Arabia could only build it in Asia really, where they dont have a big barb threat and russia is also pretty much barb free, so all in all I would be very glad to see it in the hands of china. :)

Arabia could only build it in Asia really, where they dont have a big barb threat and russia is also pretty much barb free, so all in all I would be very glad to see it in the hands of china. :)

What do you mean Arabia doesn't have a big barb threat? My Dezful routinely gets 3 horse archers every 10 moves or so. I usually have to spare a camel to defend it, with the result that Persia and India are more slowly conquered. That is why I never conquer Samarkand even though that means spreading Islam there.

pacific, consider that having the wall available is a-historical. It was already built in 600AD.
In fact, it wasn't available in the earlier BTS releases.
Later I decided to unlock it to Medieval civs too, but now it appears that Spain builds it 100% of the times in my games, no matter my modifiers

Yey!

I like this change. I went into WB and I changed some tiles for sea tiles around the back of a north-Chinese city and then put them back or something to have a single wall as the great wall to have it look more historical. I was trying to make a 1800AD start but I gave in.

All I was going to say was yey but it was too short to post lol.

Aryann, thanks you just game me an idea for how to add the great wall for my game!

Now, how to do that in notepad... ;)

And if China gets it automatically when "independent" Xian flips to them, that kinda obviates the 3rd criterion (at least partially since now China only has to worry about Mongols)

I don't generally play the 600AD start, but this is a bit concerning. I don't really like the idea of the European civs having access to build it either to be honest.

Can't we just have the graphic of the wall in it's (roughly) correct location, but have it unbuildable and not pre-built in any city? I'm not sure why it's buildable in the first place though, why did you decide to unlock it Rhye?

...russia is also pretty much barb free...

You what? Whenever I play Russia I am forever plagued by those friggin Horse Archers randomly popping up and killing my workers, at least for the first few centuries :sad:

pacific, consider that having the wall available is a-historical. It was already built in 600AD.

I was going to say this myself until I read Rhye's post which said it for me.
So I'll just say, I concur.

You what? Whenever I play Russia I am forever plagued by those friggin Horse Archers randomly popping up and killing my workers, at least for the first few centuries :sad:

So now you'll just have to conquer Xi'an as a priority then.

FWIW, I just finished a game as Russia and never had a single Horse Archer for the entire time.

My Russian frustration not Horse Archers, but rather that after I declared War on the rest of the world in 1917 (I was trying to be historical, when really the world declared war on the Bolsheviks at this time) and then obliterated the Vikings and vassalised Netherlands, Spain, Egypt, Turkey, Persia and India - I wasn't able to get the UHV because I won a domination victory at the start of the 1950 turn. :mad:

I havn't got any horse archers for a long time now...

I havn't got any horse archers for a long time now...

I always get one or two horse archers near the start and then never again. I assumed it was always this way.

I think I remember zooming out and seeing the great wall wonder built on globe view, it just seemed strange since the same day I did this I was told it is visible from space, but that is a myth.

I got told you could see it from space but not the moon, although I douibt it cos its so thin...

I always get one or two horse archers near the start and then never again. I assumed it was always this way.

Are the barbarians more frequent in the 3000BC start or something? I quite often have them spawn in groups of three around the northern shore of the Black Sea, often right next to Kiev. Plus they come from Siberia as well.

There are always enough to use up the "free wins", at which point they become quite dangerous to Russia's starting troops. I've often lost cities to them, prompting a reload - but admittedly I have a bad habit of wandering my troops around exploring when they should be garrisoning my cities :lol:

Anyway sorry to have gone a bit off-topic guys :)

I got told you could see it from space but not the moon, although I douibt it cos its so thin...

Seems it's not really visible from space, either, or at least very difficult to see:

http://www.snopes.com/science/greatwall.asp

I always thought the piramids would probs be easier to see cos there wider, if you know what I mean...

Are the barbarians more frequent in the 3000BC start or something? I quite often have them spawn in groups of three around the northern shore of the Black Sea, often right next to Kiev. Plus they come from Siberia as well.

There are always enough to use up the "free wins", at which point they become quite dangerous to Russia's starting troops. I've often lost cities to them, prompting a reload - but admittedly I have a bad habit of wandering my troops around exploring when they should be garrisoning my cities :lol:

Anyway sorry to have gone a bit off-topic guys :)


I use 600AD, must be that then. More barbs have to spawn for Rome perhaps(?)

I'But for Spain to be wasting :hammers: on the great wall (given that it doesn't have any stone,) when it could be building citadels and not messing up the map for defence of nothing seems silly to me.

+2 GPP are never a waste ^^

You what? Whenever I play Russia I am forever plagued by those friggin Horse Archers randomly popping up and killing my workers, at least for the first few centuries :sad:

I've never ever had this problem. They always seem to run towards Persia in my games, sparring me.

And also the great wall isn't visible from space. If it was, then you should be able to see a small house from space--which is as thick as the great wall. Heck even look in google earth. It's VERY hard to find on there; and the only place of the great wall you can find easily is the small section that was built for tourists. (Yes, the part of the great wall you so often see people walking on, taking pictures of, etc, was built within the past 50 years for tourists; most haven't seen the REAL great wall, which actually isn't as impressive as the tourist one due to decay.)

Great Wall in spain is not realistic!

no need to bump this thread, the issue is already fixed in the new patch