Ace of Spades
Mar 01, 2008, 03:45 PM
There are some issues with the Vassal and Defensive Pact system that I have found to be quite annoying - and I wonder whether other players have experiences similar problems, and if everything is working as intended here.
Particularly this seems to be connected to two things:
a) civilizations rising from other civilizations' territories (and their refusal to "let them go")
b) vassals of some civilizations vassalizing another civilization
Example and explanation: During the late game, when in a powerful situation, often find myself in a situation where I have 3-5 Vassals (which are moderately stable) and maybe one or two other greater powers still competing with me, which in turn have some number of vassals themselves (often 2-4). It is not unusual for me to have a defensive pact with these civilzations, as this balance of power tends to emerge from long drawn out world wars - the winning coalition vassalizes the civs of the losing side one by one, until only the dominant coalition prevails.
Therefore, it is not uncommen for nearly every existing civilization to be connected to all the others by vassalage or defensive pact respectively. Howerver, this turns out to be extremely volatile once new civilizations emerge.
Somehow, the combination of vassalization and defensive pacts seems to be able to fling the whole world into war with each other. I have not yet completely figured out why it happened, but for some reason even my vassals would all declare war upon me in such a situation without me even doing the slightest thing.
An example from one of my latest games: After about 100 turns of fighting, in 2045 only America (me) and Turkey (AI) remain standing, with me having vassalized Inca, Portugal, Spain, Russia and Mongols, and Turkey having vassalized China, India, Arabia and Egypt. As Turkey is a little unstable in 2045, in 2046 Germany spawns (entirely on Turkish territory). And somehow, before I know it, I'm at war with everyone but the Mongols (they remain my vassal for some reason), and Turkey has vassalized Germany (they retain Arabia and Egypt but lose China and India), while basically the whole world is at war with each other with the exemptions that I named.
I think it either has something to do with vassals declaring war on new civs, or with old hostilities (that were present at the time Germany collapsed earlier) causing the avalanche of declarations of war - in combination with the defensive pact causing me to declare war on all of my vassals when they declared war on turkey.
Has anyone experienced similar explosions of hostility? What do you have to do to avoid this (well, apart from not signing defensive pacts, I suppose)?
Regards,
Ace
Particularly this seems to be connected to two things:
a) civilizations rising from other civilizations' territories (and their refusal to "let them go")
b) vassals of some civilizations vassalizing another civilization
Example and explanation: During the late game, when in a powerful situation, often find myself in a situation where I have 3-5 Vassals (which are moderately stable) and maybe one or two other greater powers still competing with me, which in turn have some number of vassals themselves (often 2-4). It is not unusual for me to have a defensive pact with these civilzations, as this balance of power tends to emerge from long drawn out world wars - the winning coalition vassalizes the civs of the losing side one by one, until only the dominant coalition prevails.
Therefore, it is not uncommen for nearly every existing civilization to be connected to all the others by vassalage or defensive pact respectively. Howerver, this turns out to be extremely volatile once new civilizations emerge.
Somehow, the combination of vassalization and defensive pacts seems to be able to fling the whole world into war with each other. I have not yet completely figured out why it happened, but for some reason even my vassals would all declare war upon me in such a situation without me even doing the slightest thing.
An example from one of my latest games: After about 100 turns of fighting, in 2045 only America (me) and Turkey (AI) remain standing, with me having vassalized Inca, Portugal, Spain, Russia and Mongols, and Turkey having vassalized China, India, Arabia and Egypt. As Turkey is a little unstable in 2045, in 2046 Germany spawns (entirely on Turkish territory). And somehow, before I know it, I'm at war with everyone but the Mongols (they remain my vassal for some reason), and Turkey has vassalized Germany (they retain Arabia and Egypt but lose China and India), while basically the whole world is at war with each other with the exemptions that I named.
I think it either has something to do with vassals declaring war on new civs, or with old hostilities (that were present at the time Germany collapsed earlier) causing the avalanche of declarations of war - in combination with the defensive pact causing me to declare war on all of my vassals when they declared war on turkey.
Has anyone experienced similar explosions of hostility? What do you have to do to avoid this (well, apart from not signing defensive pacts, I suppose)?
Regards,
Ace