though im not a Korean, I think Korea did play a role in Eastern Asian world. Korea, China, Japan and Khmer (Indo-China area) formed the so-called "Confucian sphere". It will be less interesting without the participation of Korea.

a) They have no room for more than one city
b) The map ain't change for just one civ (dramatically).
c) Beijing and the Japanese Coreland are to near to the city culturalwise.
d) Thus they were excluded at the time.
e) Some arguments became void when the Dutch were included, but they have colonial lands and had to be included (official mod -> Firaxian Pressure)
f) Later on, it was discovered that Korea would have been perfect to inlcude a One-City-Challenge into RFC.
g) But unfortunately, it was already too late and it is still. We are trying to decrease the number of civs, not increase it.

That is my 8-Point reasoning!

m

mitsho said it all

first thanks for ur elaborate answer
after all i still hope she can be included as wt u ve mentioned "one city challenge":) :) :)

I think Korea should play a more important role in Asian military conquests, however. Korea has traditionally been the "Road" to conquests in Asia between China and Japan. Japan invaded Korea under Hideyoshi in order to secure a route to the invasion of China.

Perhaps the seas in Asia should be more treacherous. Pirates, storms, etc. to encourage the conquest of Korea.

a) They have no room for more than one city
b) The map ain't change for just one civ (dramatically).
c) Beijing and the Japanese Coreland are to near to the city culturalwise.
d) Thus they were excluded at the time.
e) Some arguments became void when the Dutch were included, but they have colonial lands and had to be included (official mod -> Firaxian Pressure)
f) Later on, it was discovered that Korea would have been perfect to inlcude a One-City-Challenge into RFC.
g) But unfortunately, it was already too late and it is still. We are trying to decrease the number of civs, not increase it.

That is my 8-Point reasoning!

m

I, too, think Korea should be included, although I must admit that I'm far from an expert at rhyse and fall. Here's why:
a)Korea has about as much land area as Japan (85,000sq miles as opposed to 145,000sq miles for japan, today, and Korea used to be bigger).
b)why do you have to drastically change the map?
c)the cultural conflict between china, korea, and japan was an important part of east asian history.
If necessary, make it a 1-city challenge.

Yuhu, the god has mentioned my name ;) Well, it was a standard question, so it wasn't that difficult and it didn't take more than a minute (at most!)... ;)



I, too, think Korea should be included, although I must admit that I'm far from an expert at rhyse and fall. Here's why:
a)Korea has about as much land area as Japan (85,000sq miles as opposed to 145,000sq miles for japan, today, and Korea used to be bigger).
b)why do you have to drastically change the map?
c)the cultural conflict between china, korea, and japan was an important part of east asian history.
If necessary, make it a 1-city challenge.

a) I wasn't talking about geography, but about actual tiles on the map
b) Look at the map! Asia has been significantly decreased (while Europe has been increased). To give Korea some room they need, you would have to reverse that a lil bit.
c) I wasn't talking about sociology or history, but about the gameplay factor culture.

Remember, this is a game after all!

EDIT: @yokachinu Well, it certainly is possible to include it as a modcomp now (--> wiki [link is in one of the fixed threads on top of the forum]). What would be needed for that: Someone able to mod it and who has time (not me); "Problems to be solved": a) Move back "Wang Kon" to the Koreans from the chinese b) reinclude them as a civ (uu, and so on), not quite sure how it was managed d) doing UHVs, UPs, starting time, core area, settler map, dynamic civ names, etc. ... and e) perhaps remove another civ to make place (Mayans for example). You see, it is a huge pile of work (in comparison to other modcomps) and would require a tremendous work again whenever an update comes along (as I see it). But I would be happy to play it... ;)

-is it not possible to edit a game like using civ3 worldbuilder in civ 4 game??
-if so, why some "common people" (not civ 4 desginers) can design a game and make public?

Unfortunately, while anyone could concievably add the civ in the world builder, this would first take adding the civ into the xml files, as well as giving them a starting date, settlers maps, difficulty handicaps, and some other values in the SDK, massive work in the python files that script the R&F and Barbarian areas to account for it, diplomatic work, and lots of balance testing to ensure they don't take too much room from China that the only possible way to win as china is to kill them as soon as possible.

Adding a civ in RFC is vastly more complicated than in vanilla civ. Both un and fortunately, as that is part of what makes RFC great.

taht's why i kinda hoped you would like to do it... ;)

Adding Korea would also make the Chinese UHV nearly impossible as there wouldn't be enough room for 8 cities. China needs Hancheng (Seoul) to get its eighth set of temples.

You could build Kunming or Louyang?

Civs I would like to see added: Korea, Israel, Poland, Majapahit of Indonesia

Please, again?

Civs I would like to see added: Korea, Israel, Poland, Majapahit of Indonesia

Why stop there? Why not the Parthians or Armenians or Lithuanians or Zulus or Maoris or Inuit or Sumerians or Sassanids or Minoans or...

... because RFC is already taking an approximation on a lot of historical matters - and doing a great job I might add. Minor civs (some of which do get a showing already) should simply consider themselves lucky and leave it at that.

Rhye u should make a sticky about y there isnt a korea ;) lol

As for all middle eastern suggestions u guys just made, the middle east is already way to crowded many civs will overlap eachother making them all like Sogut lol. As for Zulu, South africa was made for colonization, no need for a stone age civ while europe is in renaissances +

As for all middle eastern suggestions u guys just made, the middle east is already way to crowded many civs will overlap eachother making them all like Sogut lol. As for Zulu, South africa was made for colonization, no need for a stone age civ while europe is in renaissances +

Perhaps you should have re-read my post. All of my "suggestions" were not actual suggestions at all.
:)

c)the cultural conflict between china, korea, and japan was an important part of east asian history.

You know, I really don't see that. Far be it from me to deny the significance of Korea's role in East Asian history, but I really do not recall anything that could be called a "cultural conflict between china, korea, and japan" and at the same time be actually important for the region as a whole. Not for the usual definition of "conflict" in any case.

Now, if we're talking about contact, that's a different story... though I still couldn't quite come up with any ideas for how it could be implemented in-game, especially without usurping the Khmer UHV.

As to the idea of a 1-city challenge, I suppose that Korea sounds pretty good for this, but Israel is even better, what with Jerusalem being a holy city for world religion and such.

Ultimately, while a Korean civilisation might seem like a neat thing to add, I think the game on the whole is doing fine without it (or, rather, with it in Independent hands until conquered by one of the civilisations it was conquered or at least attacked by historically every so often); though it could be argued that it might make the local diplomatic and technological dynamics more interesting.

I think I'll make a Luxemburg thread next...

You know, I really don't see that. Far be it from me to deny the significance of Korea's role in East Asian history, but I really do not recall anything that could be called a "cultural conflict between china, korea, and japan" and at the same time be actually important for the region as a whole. Not for the usual definition of "conflict" in any case.

Now, if we're talking about contact, that's a different story... though I still couldn't quite come up with any ideas for how it could be implemented in-game, especially without usurping the Khmer UHV.

As to the idea of a 1-city challenge, I suppose that Korea sounds pretty good for this, but Israel is even better, what with Jerusalem being a holy city for world religion and such.

Ultimately, while a Korean civilisation might seem like a neat thing to add, I think the game on the whole is doing fine without it (or, rather, with it in Independent hands until conquered by one of the civilisations it was conquered or at least attacked by historically every so often); though it could be argued that it might make the local diplomatic and technological dynamics more interesting.

For what it's worth, in my most recent game, Persia conquered Seoul.

I saw that once too, quite a while ago though...

I saw Greece conquer Seoul once.

I saw a lone Persian Immortal conquer and raze Soeul, while my Samurais were a turn away from it (they raced back from pillaging Chinese lands).

im playing a current game where the japanese, chinese, mongolians, and Khmer didn't get off to a good start. they're ALL in civil war. Korea is still thriving from this, as it was conquered by IMPI'S about 30 turns ago. it was taken by the Carthaginians a couple turns after that. ethiopia is trying to get it now.

now to the main idea, i think it is possible to add another city on the peninsula, Pyongyang. but no more than that. and maybe a "hunnic empire" to stifle the romans a bit. just an independent "Budapest" around the time they conquered Hispaniola and Illyria in OTL. it shouldn't be barbarian... but independent.

If you want Budapest you shoul'd add a Celtic city named "Ak-Ink" when it will become Roman it will be: Aquincum. If it becomes German it will be "Ofen". If the Turks conquer it the name would change to "Budapeşte" and when it will be German again it will be named Budapest.

too many if's. normally i play as germany and i never lose a city.
so a celtic city wouldn't be good. independent would be better. using a translated version of the roman name of budapest.

The city was Celtic, so I think that if there is a Celtic civ, it should be used for "Ak-Ink" (Budapest)

the huns were celts?

the huns were celts?

Huh? The Huns (who were not Celts) didn't enter the scene until 350 CE, way after we're talking about, and the Magyars came even later. The Celts, however, had settlements stretching from Anatolia (modern Turkey) to Gaul (modern France) as early as 1000 BCE.

the huns were celts?
The Huns were not Celts. Budapest was Celtic and after that was captured by the Romans and Huns.

ok. my knowledge of the region was that it was only settled by the huns. who would later become the magyars after the turks invaded and interbred with them for a while..

For what it's worth, in my most recent game, Persia conquered Seoul.Same here. But it fliiped to me (China) very soon.

Hi ,

the korean civ should warrant a bigger map , or maybe a special asia pacific only map , .....

aldo they have a great starting location they would need a high dose of luck in order to expand , ..... it would be nice to play a china , korea japan scenario , each with its own religion ( !! )


the map is just to small now to include the koreans , aldo the unique building can be included for a few cities there fron the natives , so can the UU for the native seoul to depend it , ....

if the map would be bigger and allow for at least three four cities on the peninsula , sure why not , ....

its funny to see a single mayan swordman try to conquer it , ..... :lol:


Have a nice day

It would be nice to do a 1 city challenge with Korea, the location is ideal.

It would be nice to do a 1 city challenge with Korea, the location is ideal.

Hi ,

GOOD LUCK ;)


want to take a bet on how fast you will be razed , ..... :confused:


it seems the AI does not like humans there with all those resources , maybe if lucky you can make it to 1600 , if you start in 600 , ....

Have a nice day :)

Hi ,

GOOD LUCK ;)


want to take a bet on how fast you will be razed , ..... :confused:


it seems the AI does not like humans there with all those resources , maybe if lucky you can make it to 1600 , if you start in 600 , ....

Have a nice day :)

Actually Korea was founded 2333 BC, though that's disputed. So Korea would start very early, one of the earliest civs up there.

Shucks, too bad..
I'm on vacation, though, so if anyone is willing to tell me the necessary steps to create a Korea, then I'm more then willing to try.

While I'm not anti-Korea there is not room for more than 1 or 2 cities if you rearrage stuff for balance over gameplay, but other more important East Asian nations are excluded and should be added first, if any:

Manchu, Bengal, Tibet, Dai Vet, etc. However there is really on room maybe 2 more civs, one in SEA and Manchu.

Korea and some of those other nations would be better if a Asian Map project similar to Europe were done. However it requires time and effort, though it's history has enough depth to make it just as viable as a European map.

I saw Greece conquer Seoul once.I saw Inca conquer Seoul once.
Not really, but that would be pretty beastly.

In all seriousness though, Korea will not and should not be added. Unless Rhye adds a one-city challenge to the game (which he probably won't), the addition of Korea would not add any benefits to gameplay at all; it would only make the game less fun for any Asian civs.

I'm on vacation, though, so if anyone is willing to tell me the necessary steps to create a Korea, then I'm more then willing to try.Chances are that if you don't already know the steps, you won't be able to do it. :p It takes a lot more than editing XML files to add a civ into Rhye's.

Not Korea related at all, but I thought an OT post would be better than starting a new thread.
My question is why isnt there more independant cities in eastern Europe. These could represent the Slavic culture group. It would be realistic as the land was already populated and other empires took the through military force. Thus you can represent Poland and the Kievian Wars of Expansion. From what I can tell, adding a few more independant cities wont slow the game down much.

There is already a thread on the same topic (one of many threads). Unfortunately our God have not deigned a comment on any of them.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=266818

What would Korea's UP be, then?

What would Korea's UP be, then?
Zerg rush?

Zerg rush?
kekekekekekekekekekekekekeke...

desudesudesudesudesudesudesu

Edit: in all seriousness... it would probably be something to do with high defenses or shipbuilding. the Koreans currently make the worlds best ships (South Korea)

I thought of a couple:

Post Industrialization Boom: +25% Science, + 25% Gold, +25% production in every city after entering Modern Age (This is to reflect S. Korea's economic growth from Bangladesh levels to about Portugal/Spain levels. It might be too high, but it comes very late in the game, so it might be fair)

Or, as suggested, something about ships. Korea has the best ships in the world right now, plus they have a long history of an excellent navy and superior naval technology (mainly because of Japanese pirates/ wars with the Japanese).

It could be something like, all ships build with strength I promotion automatically or something like that.

Frankly, I think the UU should be the Turtle ships, with the world's first iron plated armor and spikes (to prevent raiders from boarding), 25 cannons (long before European ships were commonly outfitted with cannons), and numerous other features that allowed it to move quickly and maneuver easily. Oh well~

Perhaps a new UU could be modelled and editted into the game. I know I don't want Korea's UU to remain a mere fireworks rack.

Obviously no one really cares about Korea.

I care, I really do. Obviously from the discussion, Korea's UB would have to output tremendous culture. Coming up with a set of historical victories is a problem too.

Why are we discussing Korea's UP when it's not going to be added into the game? :p

I thought of a couple:

Post Industrialization Boom: +25% Science, + 25% Gold, +25% production in every city after entering Modern Age (This is to reflect S. Korea's economic growth from Bangladesh levels to about Portugal/Spain levels. It might be too high, but it comes very late in the game, so it might be fair)Not unless other nations like Japan and China are given similar booms. (Don't know...haven't managed to survive that far)
Frankly, I think the UU should be the Turtle ships, with the world's first iron plated armor and spikes (to prevent raiders from boarding), 25 cannons (long before European ships were commonly outfitted with cannons), and numerous other features that allowed it to move quickly and maneuver easily. Oh well~Iron Spikes is not so bad, but Chinese navy had cannons before Korea and used them both for naval battles and land bombardment.

UP is the small problem, what about UHV. Win 10 Starcraft championships? Add Slayers-Boxer world wonder?

OK, seriously, someone needs to consider the UHV and the impact of those on the rest of Asia and the world. As to the difficulty of adding a new civ, look at the playable Byzantines tread.

UP is the small problem, what about UHV. Win 10 Starcraft championships?

*snerk* I love Korea and would love to see Korea added to RFC. But I've also hung out at enough PC rooms near Busan to LOL at that joke ...

On-topic: Well, some of the other civs have UHVs that their real-life counterparts never met. You could do the same with Korea. Off the top of my head:

* Never lose Seoul. (Kind of obvious.)

* One of the pre-unification kingdoms, IIRC, actually pulled most of Manchuria under its sway for awhile, so there is historical precedent for a UHV that ratifies/presupposes expansion. Build a Confucian Academy, perhaps?

* Both of those would be easy if Korea were launched early enough. More difficult to achieve (and that would speak to Korean fantasies of revenge): something that would require the player to conquer the Japanese islands?

On-topic: Well, some of the other civs have UHVs that their real-life counterparts never met. You could do the same with Korea. Off the top of my head:


The idea of the UHvs is that the civ did some of them and tried and failed with others. China did have huge culture, Confucianism + Taoism were well spread, however, China was conquered by the Mongols. Roman surely had all the western territory and had huge infrastructure (aqueducts and so on), but fell before the barbarian hordes. If one is to build UHVs for any civ, some of those should be UHVs of importance that the civ did achieve and one or one and a half should be something where the civ failed.

I don't know enough about Korean history to propose anything, hence I played stupid with the Starcraft joke.

While I'd rather see other Civ's coming in before Korea, here's a few thoughts on its implementation:

Unique Unit:
Hwacha (as we've seen since Civ 3)
Geobukseon (Turtle Boats) (Age of Empires II)

UHV:
- Spread Buddhism to 5 Japanese cities and build 4 Confucian academies in Korea by certain date: reflecting the spread of Buddhism to Japan and adoption of neo-Confucianism in Korea
- Not lose city until 1910 (with Mongolia, China, and Japan aggressive against Korea)/Produce X cultural output by date/Retain territorial control over southern Manchuria and Korean peninsula: reflecting the repulsion of foreign invasions and development of Korean national identity
- Retain stability until 1960/(Or with an "independent" Korea trigger in 1950 from half its territory,) Unite all lost Korean territories by 2010: the current goal/dream of Koreans for reunification

UHV:
[B]- Spread Buddhism to 5 Japanese cities and build 4 Confucian academies in Korea by certain date[/B

Four Confucian Academies? Wouldn't that require 16 cities?

Another possible UHV: It's a controversial claim, but the Koreans like to say they were the first to come up with movable type. So, maybe first to discover Printing Press?

Four Confucian Academies? Wouldn't that require 16 cities?

Another possible UHV: It's a controversial claim, but the Koreans like to say they were the first to come up with movable type. So, maybe first to discover Printing Press?

Oops - perhaps just the spread of Confucianism in Korean cities or a temple built in each one.

I'd say a negative for the printing press, but maybe Alphabet for the development of Hangul?

Another possible UHV: It's a controversial claim, but the Koreans like to say they were the first to come up with movable type. So, maybe first to discover Printing Press?
Might be a good one. Alphabet would have already been discovered by the time they come into existence.

Not losing Seoul until 1600 should be another one (beginning of Tokugawa government and after the death of Toyotomi Hideyoshi) should be another.

The 3rd one would be the most difficult to figure out. They really didn't try to expand, except maybe some attempts to grab Mandate of Heaven and rule China, but I don't think the game can check specific nations you conquer.

I'd say a negative for the printing press, but maybe Alphabet for the development of Hangul?

I thought about Alphabet/Hangul--Hangul is so cool--but I think Jinnai is right about Alphabet being too close to being discovered by the time the Koreans would spawn. Also, Hangul was a relatively late invention, IIRC. That's too bad, because a Printing Press/Alphabet/Some 3rd Tech would work well.

What about Build the Internet by a certain date? That would get 3Miro's "Starcraft" joke in ...

Korea's UP: To be discussed ad nauseam by RFC fans, yet ignored and never to be implemented by Rhye.:deadhorse:

Korea would be nice, but just not possible in the main game of RFC.
There's no talk of a RFC Asia, is there? As a complement to the Europe.
The leader should definitely be Sejong instead of Wang Geon.

Keep the StarCraft jokes coming!