#18 Spoiler discussion [Archive] - Civilization Fanatics' Forums

starlifter

Jul 12, 2002, 10:13 PM

I finally got started on this game, and now I'm a little past 0AD, so I'll give a general status report, and make some screenies and log, probably tomorrow.

First, I'll say I've hardly researched any beakers of science at all. I decided to play Power Fundamentalism (PF), and will post greater details later. I always lag you fast starters in 0AD, and catch up in Democracy after 0AD. You all are going to laugh when I tell you how many cities I had in 0AD... four. Actually, five including the size 1 Advanced Tribe that I am killing off. But I have over 1,000 gold and 22 techs with 0% science most of hte time (PF in action!).

As this is aPF game, the first thing I did was build MPE. Then trade and orchestrate, with zero or minimal science, and IPRB caravans. My SSC was not my capital, and in fact, I changed the name to SGC (Super Gold City). It makes obscene amounts of gold, and I have passed on all science improvements, as well as the CO and INC.

I've been able to sustain 1 advance per day, for very short periods. The interium is a couple three repositioning and reloading the caravans. The absolute top priority is for even size 1 cities to produce caravans. This is the essense of PF. This is where the science comes from. And the by-product is more gold than can even consumed.

I've had some hides repeaters, and Egyptians demand hides. Hides are far and away the best, in this early game. My caravans have netted up to 880 gold/science per delivery, and that's because I'm deliberately not gifting the Key Civ. This balloons the gold before Inv and Nav, as the 200% multiplier is still in effect. And I have more gold than any game I've ever played, at this early point. So much gold that I cannot spend it all..... this is due to my empire being so small... I should have bit the bullet and expaded more. But now I'm wiping out Egypt, except for one city that is a hides/dye repeat demander a long way from my SGC.

I have given top priority to my SCG, as it has both Colossus and KRC. Other cities support it with food routes, and have helped it grow, though it has taken much longer to grow than Rep/Dem. All terrain is irrigated, and all forests are gone, except for the one silk.

BTW, I've swapped maps with most civs, to find out the trade situation.

About wonders, some things were quite different for me in this game.

Here is my build order:

1. MPE. By far the most valuable wonder in this game. By far.
2. Pyramids.
<lost the Hanging Gardens>
3. Colossus
4. Lighthouse (this is a MAJOR departure from my "usual", necessitated by the nature of Power Fundy & ocean trade).
5. KRC. Extremely valuable in PF.

---- planned: ----
6. Sun Tzu.
7. Michelangelos Chapel.
8. Magellan.
9. Leonardo.
10. JS Bach.
11. Adam Smith.

Well, that's about it for now. I will post a great deal about this game, since this is such an unusual game. PF, however, does not lend itself to high scores (due to small city sizes), but it is second only to PD in terms of strength, though I have not yet been attacking many civs yet.

EDIT: Jeeze, over 10 typos in a short post, LOL.

GaryNemo

Jul 13, 2002, 07:24 AM

Having never played Fundamentalism, I'm struggling with this, and dispair of ever finishing this huge map. Madly building Diplomats, Caravans, Cities, crawling thru Science, having some fortune with the Caravans, Paid $216 once, several $144. Each turn, I check thru every city: if a little production, switch to Warrior, buy it, switch back; if 13-16, Phalanx, 23-26 Diplomat, 43-46 Catapult, so as to attempt to use all of this gold.

I built Pyramids first, did that right, and have been exploring, fighting, bribing my way along. Just got Mike's, hence a flood of gold. Presently feel the great need for Leonardo, then Magellan and Caravels.

It seems I was getting gold anyway when my Science was over 50%

People have commented how great Marco Polo is, but it did not produce for me in the past few games so I'm ignoring it.

3950 BC, Hut $50, founded Kyoto, started Horse.
3850 BC, choose Alphabet for Writing.
3700 BC, first Warrior, founded Osaka Silk w other Settler.
3600 BC, Hut is Settler from None.
3450 BC, finally a road and 2 Science Beakers/turn.
3400 BC, located a Whale.
3350 BC, ALPHABET, choose Writing over Code Laws, Currency, Masonry Pyramids, Polytheism, Map, Warrior, Wheel, Mysticism. Very odd to not want Monarchy, Hanging Gardens, Michelangelo... do need Pyramids.
3350 BC, produced first HORSEMAN.
3300 BC, Horse popped Hut Chariot. F11 shows us #1 nearly everything. Building 2 Settlers.
3100 BC, located another Whale. Realized I should be irrigating.
3050 BC, produced first SETTLER.
2950 BC, founded Edo.
2750 BC, founded Satsuma. 60,000 4 c, $4-0, Sci 2/13 Mfg=12 FS=8
2700 BC, WRITING, choose Code Laws over Currency, Masonry, Polytheism, Mysticism, Map, Warrior, Wheel, Pottery.
2600 BC, Started Colossus. IPRB warrior & phx for Settlers.
2300 BC, produced first DIPLOMAT.
2350 BC, 100,000 pop in 4, $7-0, Sci=3/13, Mfg=13 FS=8.0 #1.
2050 BC, CODE LAWS, Choose Masonry Pyramids over Currency Map Literacy Poly Warrior Wheel Mysticism Monarchy Pottery. Produced first PHALANX. Cleared jungle, founded Kagoshima Whale. Building Colossus / Pyramids, 4 Settlers. 1850 BC, founded Nara.
1600 BC, 200,000 in 6, $11-0, Sci 6/10, Mfg=18 FS=7.5 #1.
1500 BC, MASONRY, Choose Map over Currency, Math Literacy Poly Warrior Wheel Monarchy Mysticism Pottery. Founded Nagoya.
1000 BC, Romans started the Pyramids, too late! No Barbs!?
975 BC, MAP MAKING, choose Currency? over Polytheism Math Warrior Literacy Wheel Mysticism Pottery Monarchy. Clearing Jungle.
950 BC, Fdd Izumo. 320,000 pop / 7, $17-0, Sci 8/12, Mfg=28
900 BC, produced first TRIREME. Soon found a nice thing!
825 BC, River, Dip Hut only $50, still no Barbs or anyone else!

700 BC, Egyptians start Pyramids, Greeks start Colossus. Kyoto builds PYRAMIDS, Americans sw to HG. CURRENCY, choose Trade over Poly Math Literacy Warrior Wheel Monarchy Mysticism Pottery Constr. Second Trireme sails, Horse Hut discovers Literacy.
430,000 pop 8 c, $19 -0, Sci 10/13, Mfg=29 FS=7.0, 10 techs.

Decided to rush Science, then switch to 3 Caravans to build the Colossus... Persians start HG. Three Triremes sailing.
575 BC, Trireme & Dip popped Hut: Settler from None.
550 BC, Southern Dip popped Hut: only $25. Science only crawls.
525 BC, AI Rome built HANGING GARDENS, French start GrtLibr, Egyptians abandon, Persians sw to Colossus! Jungle cleared. Another Dip pops Hut: Advanced Tribe Nagasaki. We are loaded with 9 Dips guarding & exploring, 3 in production, no Barbs.
500 BC, Egyptians start Colossus too. Founded Peking, and Shimonoseki in the Jungle. Nagasaki Island.
540,000 in 11 c, $25 -0, Sci 13/10, Mfg=33 FS=7.6, 10 tech.

475 BC, Persians nearly complete Colossus. We buy it for $584. Contact yellow Warrior.
450 BC, The COLOSSUS of Kyoto is ours. Egyptians change to Great Wall, Greeks to Lighthouse - I wanted that! Persians change to Lighthouse. Bribe Egyptian Warrior for $30, None.

425 BC, Pasargadae Persian builds Lighthouse, Greeks change to Oracle. We discover TRADE, choose Poly over Math Literacy Warrior Wheel Monarchy Republic Mysticism Pottery Construction.
Egyptions talk, exchange Literacy for their Seafaring, then offer Writing rather than Trade, they scoff. They also have Math and something else. We demand tribute, they declare WAR. Bribe Phalanx for $77, None. Northern explorer Dip pops Hut: Republic.
400 BC, Memphis does not fire.
375 BC, Sioux st Great Wall. Located Heliopolis. Founded Nanking
350 BC, Romans start Great Library.
325 BC, founded Yokohama, Egyptian Catapult, we run.
770,000 in 13 c, $40 -0, Sci 20/10, Mfg=45 FS=7.4, 13 tech.
300 BC, Romans abandon GL, 820,000 pop. Bribe Egyptian Catapult for $200, None. Memphis doesn't fire at our new Catapult.
275 BC, Nones CAPTURE MEMPHIS, $27+60 Gran, steal MATHEMATICS.
225 BC, Solidifying Memphis, moving Settlers & Caravans
1020,000 in 14 c, $48 -0, Sci 24/9, Mfg=52 FS=6.4, 14 tech.

200 BC, Paris builds Great Library, Egyptians sw to Grt Wall
Bribe another Catapult $252, None, reduce Heliopolis. Gold Kyoto SSC to Satsuma PAID $42+1, Demand Road, goofed Trade arrows. Delay capture Helio for Polytheism and reinforcements.
175 BC, Athens Greeks build Oracle. POLYTHEISM, choose Mysticism for several reasons over Construction, Warrior, Banking, Monarchy, Wheel, Pottery (Egyptians). 30,00,70% Silk Kyoto to Nagasaki Island PAID $114+1, Demand, half of Mysticism. Walk into Heliopolis $66 +60 Granary, steal Pottery.
150 BC, Egyptians abandon Great Wall, a blessing! Satsuma made first ELEPHANT. Fundy is new to me, trying a Temple, Harbor, soon Market. Liked the Silk Caravan! How to choose between expansion, Marco Polo, or more exploring?
125 BC, Founded Hakodate. Located Thebes w walls, they offer $200, No, WAR!
100 BC, Romans find our Dip, demand Republic, No, WAR. Bribe too expensive, No. One Catapult blast reduced the Warrior guard of Thebes, the walls did not help them, captured $134+60 Granary.
75 BC, Dip locates Egyptian, talk, offer $150, WAR, Bribe their Warrior for $25, None, locate Pi-Ramesses. Dip in jeapordy.

50 BC, First COAL MINE. Built Forth Trireme. Subvert Pi-Ramesses for $122, got $45 & Phalanx. Warrior, Egyptians want to talk, offer 4100, No, WAR, their Catapult will kill our None Warrior. Thebes is secure. IPRB Nagoya Harbor $112. 30,00,70%
1590,000 in 18 c, $62 -0, Sci 30/10, Mfg=62 FS=5.9, 16 tech.
25 BC, lost the Warrior. MYSTICISM, choose Philosophy over Warrior, Construction, Monarchy, Wheel, Astronomy, Banking. Explorer pops frozen Hut, only $25. Founded Manila. Horse scout located Rome with walls and the Hanging Gardens.

1 AD, Gems Kyoto to Peking PAID $120+1 over water.
1780,000 in 19 c, $68 -0, Sci 35/10, Mfg=74 FS=5.7, 17 tech.
8 Settlers+8, 2 Warr, 6 Phx, 6 Horse, 1 Chariot, 4.Elephant+2, 3.Catapult+1, 4.Trireme, 11.Dip+5, 1.Caravan, 3.Explorer, also building 1 Temple, 1 Market, 1 Harbor.
20 AD, Sioux abandon Great Wall.
40 AD, Sioux started Great Wall. Barb Horse surprised our Elephant, now Veteran. Bribe Egyptian Catapult $96, Ri-Ram.
60 AD, Sioux abandon Great Wall. Frozen Hut is None Settler! Bribed Roman Settler for $584, None, located Ravenna.

80 AD, Greeks & Sioux start Great Wall. PHILOSOPHY, choose Warrior Code, then choose Monotheism over Construction, Monarchy, Astronomy, Medicine, Iron, Wheel, University, Banking. I'm hoping Michelangelo will generate $much tithes, and Crusaders will be like fast Catapults. Elephant explorer Hut: $50.
2100,000 in 19 c, $72 -1, Sci 35/12, Mfg=90 FS=5.4, 19 tech.

100 AD, Sioux abandon Great Wall. Explorer forest Hut: Iron.
120 AD, Sioux started KRC. Popped Hut near Rome, Horse None!
140 AD, Cleared jungle, founded Matsuyama (Toyama), also Tikung (Fukushima)
160 AD, Roaming horse kills Roman Warrior, becomes veteran.
180 AD, Egyptian Phx wisely killed our Dip. Killed Romans. Elephant revenged our glorious Dip, located Elephantine.
200 AD, Northern explorer pops plains Hut: Medicine. Reduced Elephantine and Alexandria. Just learned 50,00,50% Explorer bumped into a wounded Greek Legion, who offered $400 for a peace treaty, No. I then demanded tribute, received $150, still Spotless.
2370,000 in 21 c, $86 -2, Sci 41/13, Mfg=96 FS=5.7, 21 tech.

220 AD, Egyptians fire and damage our Elephant, kill our Horse. Romans start Marco Polo. Explorer pops hut - surrounded by 5 Barb Horse, doomed. Wine Satsuma to Nagoya PAID $40+1. Explorer Hut: Advanced Tribe Sou, miles from nowhere. Wounded Elephant captures Elephantine, rejuvenated, plunders $60, steals Monarchy. Barbs kill our explorer...
240 AD, French also start Marco Polo. Romans are worried, give us Construction for a Cease Fire, offer $200 for a Peace Treaty, No. We demand tribute, they ignore our feeble threats. They don't know our Legions, Catapults and Elephants are on the way! Monotheism jumped from 12 to 19 turns! F5 $91-2, Sci 41/19 Exploring Greece. Alexandria offers their $81, we reject. Horse attacks and wins.
260 AD, Alexandria kills another Horse. Greeks and Romans sign a secret aliance against the Japanese, against us! Greeks are nervous, no CF, they offer $500 to make it worth our while... ok, we sign peace treaty to focus on destroying the Romans on the way.
280 AD, Romans note our greedy eyes on Veii, demand we withdraw. Later they ask for a peace treaty, offer $300, No. Our CF has expired nicely. Elephant destroys Alexandria, $20. Other Barb Horse near Elephantine, IPRB a Dip!
300 AD, Sioux abandon KRC. Northern Barb killed explorer. Bribe wounded Greek Legion for $94, None. Found French Elephant, wanted peace, No, offered $100, ok.
320 AD, French capital moved to Hispalis. Sioux started KRC! Cleared jungle, founded Sapporo near Kyoto at last, finished settling our island. Located Giza, they offered all $63, but we are merciless. Dip pops Polar Hut: Monotheism!
340 AD, choose Wheel Leonardo over Astronomy Caravel, Feudalism, Bridge, University, Banking. CRUSADER. Fdd Shuking. 50,00,50%
3100,000 in 25 c, $102 -2, Sci 45/19, Mfg=109 FS=5.6, 24 tech.
Romans offer $300 for peace, No. Elephant declares war, attacks Phalanx, promoted to Veteran. Romans activate alliance, Greeks declare war on us too. Bribe Greek Legion $102, None. Kill Warrior. Lost Horse attacking Warrior.
360 AD, Founded Baguio (Izumi). Gems Kyoto to Pi-Ramesses PAID $216+1 and fills Science. Viroconium didn't kill explorer.
380 AD, Wheel, choose Engineering over Astronomy Caravel, Feud, Bridge, University, Banking. Founded Shanghai (Omi).
3200,000 in 27 c, $108 -2, Sci 49/18, Mfg=118 FS=5.8, 25 tech.
400 AD, Giza Warrior lost to our Elephant! Silver Kyoto to Peking PAID $120+1. Elephant walked into Giza, $32, destroyed, finally DESTROYED EGYPTIANS. They were all spread out! Founded Hieraconpolis Two Whales (Echigo).
420 AD, French abandoned Marco. Greek Capital movto Knossos.
440 AD, French cap moved to Rheims. Rome did not fire on our advance Horse. Explorer pops Roman Hut: None Crusader. Bribe Greek Horse $49, None, kill Roman Chariot, become Vet.
460 AD, Greeks kill new Horse & Dip. Catapults pound Rome, lost an Elephant, CAPTURE ROME and HANGING GARDENS, $105, Walls. Subvert Ravenna for $126, get Archer, Legion & Settler. Action with Greek Elephants. Rome will celebrate WLTK.
480 AD, killing Greeks, founded PingWu (Kozuke). 50,00,50%
4020,000 in 31 c, $140 -7, Sci 68/13, Mfg=134 FS=6.0, 25 tech.

500 AD, Wine Pi-Ramesses to Matsuyama5 PAID $140+1, demand. Legion assaults Veii Phx, becomes vet. Explorer pops Hut: University and Science still in 14 turns! Veii destroyed, $15, Romans offer $150 but we say No.
520 AD, founded Ise (Sado), Persian Cap movto Pasargadae.
560 AD, Greek cap moveto Delphi, Sioux cap to Cedar Creek. Pompeii doesn't fire on our Elephant. Subvert Pompeii for $183, Phx & Chariot. Romans offer $100, No. Greeks have Neapolis and Cumae.
580 AD, Greeks kill wounded Chariot, nearly finished Great Wall. ENGINEERING, choose Invention over Astronomy Caravel, Feud, Bridge, Chemistry, Banking, Sanitation.
Built MICHELANGELO'S CHAPEL. 4590,000 pop, $164 -16, Sci 72/14
600 AD, Athens builds Great Wall. Lost wounded Crusader. Crusader storms Antium, becomes vet. Subvert Cumae for $126, Archer Settler & Barracks. Great Wall forces peace. Subvert Neapolis for 2x =248 gold, no incident. Area seems secure, except for Greek Trireme. Horse walks into Antium, destroyed, $7. Buying new Dips.
620 AD, Greeks land, demand Peace, forced by GW, we demand, they are insulted, WAR, Catapult. Barbs near Thebes. Silver Kyoto to Nagasaki PAID $134. Founded Issus.

640 AD, Roman chariot kills catapult. Sioux cap moveto Little Bighorn? Killed Greek invader, revenged loss of catapult.
5320,000 pop 37 c, $300 -22, Sci 85/12, Mfg=164 FS=6.0, 27 tech.

660 AD, Wounded Knee built KRC. Barb Trireme kills our West Explorer Trireme, stranding Dip. Silk Kyoto to Nagasaki PAID $144+2. Dip forest Hut: Friendly Legion, homed to Elephantine 18 squares away! 1.captured.Barracks, 1.Library, 4.Markets, 3.Aquaducts, 10.Harbors, 27 Settlers+6, 15.Misc.Phx+3, 10.Legion+5, 4.Horse, 1.Chariot, 5.Elephant, 6.Crusaders+1, 5.Catapult, 6.Trireme+1, 25.Diplomat+5, 5.Caravan+10, 3.Explorer, Casualties: 1.Crusader, 1.Catapult, 1.Trireme, 2.Dip, 2.Explorer

starlifter

Jul 13, 2002, 02:52 PM

Starlifter, GOTM 18 Log

TEMPLATE=Deity/Emperor
*=Oedo Years

BC 4000 Start Road; Explore; Skip Hut
BC 3950
BC 3900 Roading
BC 3850*S-A; Found Kyoto on Grassland (non-Shield Panama Canal); Start Settler
BC 3800 2nd Road
BC 3750 Located SILK; Set Sci to 20%, Tax to 80% (1b & 3g)
BC 3700
BC 3650*3rd Road; Start Irrigation
BC 3600
BC 3550
BC 3500
BC 3450*
BC 3400 Irrigation Done; Size 2; Tax=4g; First in almost all categories (2nd in MFG GOODS, 4MT; 3nd in Land area)
BC 3350 A; S-CL
BC 3300
BC 3250*
BC 3200
BC 3150 Road-Silk
BC 3100 HUT-Archer
BC 3050*
BC 3000
BC 2950 Size 2 again. HUT#2-Code of Laws. 3g Tax, 2b Sci.
BC 2900
BC 2850*
BC 2800
BC 2750 HUT#3-Chariot (on hill). Barb Archer was right next to it; Attacked; Vet!!
BC 2700
BC 2650*Barb Archer attacked my hill archer (almost dead, vet); Road Done; Chasing leader along Road; Killed-Ldr (w/ 1/3 MP); 2nd Irrigation done
BC 2600 2nd Settler; 0 surplus food; Size 1 again. Start Colossus (Switch later to MPE).
BC 2550 Found Osaka (Whale).
BC 2500 Barb Horseman appears.
BC 2450*Killed Horseman w/Chariot; Fortify Archer on Silk to withstand incoming horseman & kill Ldr.
BC 2400 Killed horseman (w/Archer), Ldr (w/Chariot).
BC 2350
BC 2300
BC 2250*
BC 2200 3rd Irrigation (for new city)
BC 2150
BC 2100 1st Mine; Found Edo
BC 2050*Currency; S-Trade; PYRAMIDS STARTED
BC 2000
BC 1950
BC 1900
BC 1850*
BC 1800
BC 1750
BC 1700
BC 1650* 4th Irrigation
BC 1600
BC 1550
BC 1400
BC 1450* Trade; S-Masonry
BC 1400
BC 1350 MARCO POLO's EMBASSY; 3rd in POP; 1st in most other categories (Sizes 3,3,2)
BC 1300 Thebes is building Pyramids! IPRB Caravans to 40s. Contact Sioux-Give Alphabet as Tribute; they offer Peace(YES, Neutral); SWAP-Trade for Masonry; SWAP-CL for Construction (Receptive now); French- SWAP-trade for Wheel; Currency for MM; Masonry for Pottery;

Initial MPE Report:

STRONG-SPOTLESS (Jap Pop=150,000; Citizens=8; 3 Cities; 07Adv/17T)
Roma-Icy-Despot-112g-06-MM Mas (Wri) 2Cit [WAR-French]
Fren-Unc-Despot-203g-08-MM Pot WC Whl (Wri) 3Cit [WAR-Romans]
Egyp-Icy-Despot-125g-05- Pot Mas (CL) 5Cit (Thebes-PYR)
Pers-Neu-Despot-263g-07-MM Mys Pol (Wri) 3Cit
Gree-Icy-Despot-161g-09-MM Pol WC Whl (Mys) 4Cit
Siou-Icy-Despot-109g-07- Cst Mas Whl (Mys) 2Cit

Final MPE Report (after trading):

STRONG-SPOTLESS (Jap Pop=150,000; Citizens=8; 3 Cities; 12Adv/45T)
Roma-Icy-Despot-112g-06- (Wri) 2Cit [WAR-French]
Fren-Unc-Despot-203g-11- WC (Wri) 3Cit [WAR-Romans; Contact-Japs]
Egyp-Icy-Despot-125g-05- (CL) 5Cit (Thebes-PYR)
Pers-Neu-Despot-263g-07- Mys Pol (Wri) 3Cit
Gree-Icy-Despot-161g-09- Pol WC (Mys) 4Cit
Siou-Icy-Despot-109g-10- (Mys) 2Cit [Peace-Japs]

BC 1250* C-Engineering!! (36T) ; Tax-80% for Wonders
BC 1200
BC 1150
BC 1100
BC 1050*
BC 1000
BC 0975
BC 0950
BC 0925*
BC 0900 PYRAMIDS; Thebes switched to HG.
BC 0875
BC 0850
BC 0825*Thebes-HANGING GARDENS
BC 0800
BC 0775
BC 0750 Osaka will be SSC; completed Col.
BC 0725*COLOSSUS; Power=Moderate
BC 0700 Beads demand went away as my Beads caravan approached Edo!
BC 0675 Found-Satsuma; 1st in all major categories
BC 0650
BC 0625*French-Start Great Wall; Power=Strong
BC 0600
BC 0575
BC 0550
BC 0525* Power=Strong; 1st in all categories (6th in land area, 2nd in happiness)
BC 0500 LIGHTHOUSE; Romans start GW; RB SSC Market (48g); Contact-Egyptians-Pay50 tribute(I want Writing); No Ally; SWAP Trade for Writing; Gift-CB (Cordial), Currency (Worshipful); Swap Maps
BC 0475
BC 0450
BC 0425*
BC 0400 Persians start GW
BC 0375
BC 0350 Sioux start GW
BC 0325* Power=Mighty; Still 1st in all but happy(2nd) & explore (6th); I do not want GW; getting ready for KRC
BC 0300 Greeks Start Oracle
BC 0275 Engineering; S-Literacy (10b/22T); Barbs landed (2 Archers, 1 Ldr, I think; set trap; build dip); It took 38 game turns to research Enginering from scratch.....
BC 0250 SSC-heliopolis(hides,204g,D,rec) Holy Sh!t! New Plan.... Everyone makes caravans!! Bribed 2 Egyptian warriors (113g apiece); Renamed cities to Trade Convention; Set 60/0/40 + 1 scientist in A06
BC 0225* Paris-GREAT WALL; Romans, Persians-Abandon GW; Sioux-Switch to Oracle; FR-Rom at war; Romans capture Tours; Literacy; S-Myst (Choices inv,math,mon,mys,pol,rep,sea,WC); A02-SSC/SGC Celebrates
BC 0200 Had to Withdraw NONE Warrior from Egyptian; Science is ZERO for now (70-0-30)
BC 0175 1st Barb Archer dead againt my vet hill fort archer. (60-0-40)
BC 0150 2nd Barb Archer Dead; Killed Ldr; A02-Alexandra(Beads,209g,D,rec); A02-Alexandra(Hides,209g,D);Set 70-0-30(1 Scientist); Persians-SWAP-Literacy for Mysticism, Wheel for Polythiesm, Trade for Math, WS for Pottery; Refused further trading; Gift-Construction; Swap maps
BC 0125* HUT-Advanced Tribe (B0x, will kill-bad spot); A05 Scientist
BC 0100 Sioux-ORACLE; Greeks Abandon Oracle; Philosophy; Monothiesm; S-Astronomy; IPRB more Caravans
BC 0075 Egyptians-Start Great Library
BC 0050 Most Advanced: Japs, Persians, French, Egypt, Sioux. A02-Alexandra(Beads,329g,D,rec); A02-Alexandra(Salt,172g,N); (Gems now opened up in A02 after these 2 deliveries); Set 60-10-30... cannot spare even one scientist (net cost=9gold).
BC 0025* Astronomy; S-Medicine. (inv, IW, Med, Mon, rep, sea, univ); A02-Alexandra(Salt,172g,N);

----------------------- AD 0001 ---------------------------

Pop: 001.1M (Fundy)
Tax: 70% (72g, cost=0g, 1811g in bank)
Sci: 00% (00b, 0T) (22 Total Adv, researching Medicine; Advs cost about 720b)
Lux: 30%
Prod: 044MT (0T poll, 0 polluted tiles)
Cities: 05 (killing one)
Wonders: 4 (Ancient: Pyr,Col,LH; Ren: MPE)

ENEMY:
Romans: 5 cities
French: 4 cities
Egypt: 8 cities
Persians: 8 cities
Greeks: 8 cities
Sioux: 4 cities

FORCES (Many are NONEs):
02 Settlers
03 Warriors
01 Phalanx
01 Archers
01 Chariot
02 Trireme
03 Dips
08 Caravans (5 in prod, out of 5 cities!)

AD 0001 making 5 Caravans .... A02-Heliopolis(Hides,480g,D,rec); A02-Heliopolis(Gold,240g,N)

----------------------- END ---------------------

No, it's not a misprint. I only have 4 cities, plus a size one junk city. But I am "richer" in this game than any I have ever played to this point. It goes to show the equalizing power of city size I suppose... though in hindsight, I think the thing to do is found more junk cities to increase the score, since no WLTP days will be available to boost score later on.

I'll make some screenshots in a moment....

starlifter

Jul 13, 2002, 03:21 PM

Starlifter
GOTM018
AD0001
Fundy Only

City Status Screen:
http://www.civfanatics.com/uploads/Civ2_GOTM18_AD0001_CityStatus.gif

My SGC (Super Gold City):
http://www.civfanatics.com/uploads/Civ2_GOTM18_AD0001_A02-SSC.jpg

Power Graph:
http://www.civfanatics.com/uploads/Civ2_GOTM18_AD0001_PG.gif

Note the Luxury setting (30%). At the moment this SS was taken, the Science was raised to 50% in order to ensure the last few beakers were polished off for the advance that was just earned with two caravan deliveries. Normally, the science is set ot 0%, and an advance is able to be obtained with just a single 2b scientist.

Note the trade.... this is the essense of Power Fundy.... trade routed with my own empire are not nearly as profitable yet, and the 200% bonus is still in effect.

When these citizens are dipped into the water, this city yields 480g for a single hides caravan to the Egyptians. Undemanded cargo is 240g, on this turn.

This screenshot was done after the deliveries, btw, but I saved the moment before so people can eventually play around trade, if they want, with the .SAV in the archive next month.

The big huge note is that there is no difference in bonuses or trade arrows between this city and one in a democracy, at this point in the game. Same trade arrows... no reduction is caravan science.... no corruption :).

onejayhawk

Jul 14, 2002, 12:01 PM

This my first GotM. I am in 1868 and look to kill the Geeks before too lomg. They are the next best civ out there. Being new to this I did not try for MPE. That's an ote for the future, But I have 30 cities of 8+ population and am down to 3 opposing civ.

Cracking Paris and Athens was a *****, but France is now toast and am mopping up the Geek colonies. Bribes have gotten a LOT smaller. I also have al but 2 of the Wonders that anyone has built. Only missing Great wall and MPE of all things. Where the H___ did they hide that thing?

J

PS How in GGE did anyone finish before the Dark Ages.

Narz

Jul 15, 2002, 12:59 AM

With the exception of a few multiplayer games, I think this was the longest Civ game I ever played. The only problem with the game (Civ II in genral not this game) is the tediousness of the "endgame", espeically on a huge map like this. Those Persians were such a b*t*h to find!! I had carvels combing the globe.

I know I could've gotten a higher score, but my game was disorganized and I made some fundamental (no pun intended :D ) mistakes. I didn't raise the luxery rate until about 10 years before the end, I have a feeling I could've had alot more science (and wonders) if I had. Oh well.

Next time I'm going to try super hard for an early win. Also I won't play for hours on end. I find I play better when I go for an hour, hour and and half and then take a break. In Civ, as in life, when you're in something for too long its hard to see the big picture.

I hope I got into the top 5 this time!

Take it easy all!

- Narz :king:

sekong

Jul 15, 2002, 12:05 PM

I don't remember when was my last GOTM. This fundy concept is really interesting me. So I decided to give it a try.

So far I'm arround 880AD, with other 5 civs. I finished off Egyptian long back. Now I realize it's a big mistake to lose this ideal science/trade partner, but it's too late. Now I'm trying to build up the partnership with Persian, but it did not pay off a lot. While writing this, I realize it's because they are running despotism without a capital! Stupid me. :( It may serve as a good proof that you shouldn't play after midnight, if you want to play a good game. I did not say it was not fun though. :)

My cities just begin to celebrate. Although I planned to do it from the very beginning of the game. It's much postponed due to the lose of HG. My capital, size 13 West Lake is making 44 trades per turn. On a 3/3/4 setting, I'm making new science discovery for each 8(9?) turns, earnning ~110 gold per turn. I built Pyramid, GL, MP, CO, LW, captured Colossus from Persian. Greek built lighthouse earlier than me. That's really a pain in game like this one. The good thing is I'm expecting Navagation in next 4 turns or so. Since I exchanged maps with French and Greek, I can see Roman might be the closest one to my capital now, cross the ocean. From people's talk above, some of them found Roman without a Lighthouse, I guess I was too cautious with my boat to find them.

So my plan is: building up navy and caravan on the side that facing Rome. Once Navagation is discoverred, LW will upgrade my ships. Send them to Rome, and try to make it our new science partner. Head for Gunpowder next, and try to end game with diplomats and muskeeters. :0

starlifter

Jul 15, 2002, 08:07 PM

Here is my 1,000 year mid-game log.....

Comments and pix to follow shortly.

---------------BEGIN---------------

----------------------- AD 0001 ---------------------------

Pop: 001.1M (Fundy)
Tax: 70% (72g, cost=0g, 1811g in bank)
Sci: 00% (00b, 0T) (22 Total Adv, researching Medicine; Advs cost about 720b)
Lux: 30%
Prod: 044MT (0T poll, 0 polluted tiles)
Cities: 05 (killing one)
Wonders: 4 (Ancient: Pyr,Col,LH; Ren: MPE)

ENEMY:
Romans: 5 cities
French: 4 cities
Egypt: 8 cities
Persians: 8 cities
Greeks: 8 cities
Sioux: 4 cities

FORCES (Many are NONEs):
02 Settlers
03 Warriors
01 Phalanx
01 Archers
01 Chariot
02 Trireme
03 Dips
08 Caravans (5 in prod, out of 5 cities!)

AD 0001 making 5 Caravans .... A02-Heliopolis(Hides,480g,D,rec); A02-Heliopolis(Gold,240g,N)
AD 0020 Medicine; S-Sanitation; Persians-Start GL
AD 0040 Supreme. A02-Heliopolis(Hides,512g,D,rec); A02-Heliopolis(Hides,512g,D);
AD 0060*Sanitation; S-University
AD 0080 Egy
AD 0100 French capture Roman Pisase, Take Literacy; A02-Heliopolis(Hides,542g,D,rec); A02-Heliopolis(Hides,256g,N); Set 20-50-30;
AD 0120 University; S-Republic (Chem, Inv, IW, Mon, Rep, Sea, ToG); Egypt-Demanded 50g tribute(NO), Stole Republic from Alexandra;
AD 0140* Egypt Declares War; A02-Heliopolis(Hides,552g,D,rec); A02-Heliopolis(Salt,276g,N); Build KRC(buy for 200g);
AD 0160 KING RICHARDS CRUSADE
AD 0180 Persians-GREAT LIBRARY; French, Egyptians abandon GL
AD 0200 Banking; S-Chemistry (Chm, Eco, Inc, IW, Mon, Sea, ToG); A02-Alexandra(Spice,632g,D,rec); Bribe Alexandria(1092g-107,Sell Grn, Set,War,Pha,Arc,Tri(90%); Lib; Mkt; No Anarchy, Sz5); Refused CF; IPRB Bank.
AD 0220* A02-Heliopolis(Hides,552g,D); Barracks-Alexandra; Set 30-50-20.
AD 0240 Chemistry; S-Economics; A02-Heliopolis(Gems,658g,D,rec);
AD 0260 A02-Heliopolis(hides,568g,D); IPRB Sewer in A02
AD 0280 A02-Heliopolis(Gems,720g,D,rec); A02-Heliopolis(hides,568g,D);
AD 0300* A02-Giza(hides,480g,D); IPRB SE off old Sewer; Broke 5,000 gold in bank.
AD 0320 Building up forces of 5 Vet Crusaders. A02-Thebes(Dye,608g,D); Food-B0x-A02

USE MARCO POLO...........
-- Contact-French-SWAP-Republic for Seafaring; Peace?(YES); Gift-Philosophy; Swap Maps; Ally?(no); End;
-- Contact-Sioux-Demanded Republic(yes); Gift-Philosophy (Uncoop), Wri (neutral), WC(receptive), Univerisity(Enthusiastic); Seafaring (Worshipful); Swap maps.
-- Persian Peace?(NO); Swap Mon for Eng(NO... mon no workie); Gift-2ndChoice Chem(Cordial),Banking(Enthus), Swap Maps(yes); end.
-- Contact-Greek-Demand break Sious treaty(NO), demand 150g Tribute(YES, I have over 5,000 gold & want their IW); Peace?(YES, neutral); Swap?(YES) Gift-Philosophy, Chemistry(Worshipful), SWAP Republic for Ironworking (Worship); Swap Maps?yes; End.

AD 0340 C04 is paying support now (9 units). A02-Giza(Hides,584g,D); Food to A02
AD 0360 A02-Thebes(Beads,332,N); A02-Giza(Hides,616,D); Capture-Thebes(135g, HG, Walls,no Anarchy); Food to A02
AD 0380* French capture Roman Hispalis (Construction); Monarchy; S-Feudalism; A02-Giza(Beads,292,N); Divert ship to Revolt El-Armna (39g-18,sz1,empty, no Anarchy); Egypt-CF?(NO),200g?(YES), Peace?(NO), 200g?(YES); Subvert Helioplis(168x2-16,Grn, Walls, War,Arc, was making Courthouse, no anarchy); B0x food to A02;
AD 0400 Make Caravans, reposition chips
AD 0420 ditto
AD 0440 ditto
AD 0460*HUT-Nomad; HUT-Adv Tribe; A02- Elephantine(Gold,372,N); A02- Elephantine(Spice,372,N); Bribe-2xChariot(67g); NOT A SINGLE GOV'T IS IN REPUBLIC.... STRANGE
AD 0480 French & Romans sign alliance against GREEKS, LOL!! Demad Tribute-Egypt(WAR!); Revolt-280-16); Bribe-Warrior(22g,NONE)

----------------------- AD 500 ---------------------------

Pop: 003.31M (Fundy)
Tax: 80% (352g, cost=028g, bank=5,596g)
Sci: 00% (000b, 0T) (34 Total Adv, Researching Feudaism; Advs cost 1216b)
Lux: 20% (C06, A02-SGC in WLTPriest Day)
Prod: 060MT (60T poll, 0 polluted tiles)
Cities: 16
Wonders: 6 (Ancient: Pyr,Col,LH,HG*; Ren: KRC,MPE) *=captured

ENEMY:
None Eliminated yet

FORCES (Many are NONEs):
09 Settlers (0 in prod)
07 Warriors
03 Phalanx
06 Archers
03 Chariots
06 Crusaders (1 in prod)
12 Trireme (1 in prod)
06 Dips (3 in prod)
31 Caravans (9 in prod)
02 Explorers

AD 0500 HUT-3Barbs; Revolt-Memphis(275-18,Grn,Mkt, War, Pha, 2xSett, was making Trireme, Sz4, No Anarchy)
AD 0520 A02-Pompeii(Gems,308,N); bribed barb horse(2x41g); Revolt-Byblos(165-12; barracks,1 War)
AD 0540*Feudalism; S-Theology; Sell all Barracks; Warrior ran into a barb Legion.... dead meat now.; WAR-Romans (I refuse tribute)
AD 0560 Contact-Rome, refuse tribute, CF?(YES), Peace?(YES, Neutral), gift-University,Monarchy(Enthusiastic); swap maps; Revolt-PiRamesses(216g-19,2xArch, 1War, was bldg Courthouse, no improvements); A05-A02 food
AD 0580 A02-Cumae(Gems,880,D,rec);

AD 0600 vet Phal Fort on Hill def. Barb Legion@C12; Killed Ldr@C12; Found C00; Revolt-Arebela(252g-62,Brk, Harb, Archer, Making Sett, Sz2); A02-Elephantine(hides,816,D);

AD 0620*Theology; S-Chivlary (choices Inv, Chv, Nav); A02-Hispalis(Beads,824,D); A02-Hispalis(Dye,824,D); Revolt-Hieraconpolis(54-6, 1War only, no Anarchy, was making Courthouse); Bribe barb Legion (82g,C12)

AD 0640 A02-Elephantine(Hides,880,D,rec-Tie); A02-Elephantine(Cu,880,D); HUT-Crusaders; A02 is size 20 now. Bribe Persian Catapult (142g,NONE); Killed Catapult;

AD 0660 Navigation; S-Physics; MICHELANGELOS CHAPEL (633-486=147g per turn due to MC+Theology!!) ; Found A03; A02-Sparta(Dye,552,D-Cut due to Nav discovery); A02-Sparta(Beads,552,D Dye Demand now unfulfilled); A02-Pharsalos(Wool,412,D); HUT-Adv Tribe (same cont as the other AT & 2 nomads),

AD 0680 HUT-Atomic Theory, LOL.... ; Bribe 2 barb horse (2x41g,D10)

AD 0700*MAGELLANS VOYAGE; Bribe 1 barb horse (41g,D10)

AD 0720 1st Oil (no demand); A02-Chart(Gemds,728,D); A02-Elephantine(Hides,440,D); Bribe Beat Up Barb Horseman (41g,D10); Revolt-Sidon(246-56g,1 War, was making Catapult, No Anarchy); Met Persinas-CF?(NO),Peace?(YES)

AD 0740 HUT-Crusader; HUT-50g; A02-Elephantine(Hides,440,D); ; HUT-Invention (on Roman Continent, southern); Completed Leo Wkshp (incl disband diplomat to save freight)

(Note: It turns out that this is where the PF One Turn Per Advance began.....)

AD 0760 C-Steam Engine; Steam Engine; S-Gunpowder (Demo: No, not needed, GP:Yes!, Mag: NO, RR:NO,HG); LEONARDOS WORKSHOP; A02-Cumae(Beads,412,D); A02-Chartres(Gems,728,D); A02-Athens(Salt,508,D); Bribed-Persian Elephant (158g,E04); HUT-Legion (south Island); HUT-Horde (6 horsemen, Roman area); Bribed Barb Horseman; Assembling Team to attack eastern huts.

AD 0780* Gunpowder; S-Explosives; Bribe-Barb Horse(41g,NONE,from Prior hut); A02-Rheims(Gems,1020,D,rec); A02-Chartres(Dye,492,D); A02-Elephantine(Gold,220,N); 16 new Vet Ironclads in Production; Cost of IPRBs went up by 10g (gunpowder); Want Refrigeration (Metallurgy, Elect(&kills GL!) next); Found Bi1 (Instant Harbor)

AD 0800 Explosives; S-Metallurgy; bribe Persian Elephant (214g,NONE); HUT-Musketeer(NONE,west cont); Bribe Barb houseman (NONE, from Hut); ; A02-hispalis(Silk,642,D); A02-Chartres(Dye,492,D); A02-Argos(Silver,630,D); Subvert-Bactra(2x243-55, Archer, Sell Grn); A02-Elephantine(Hides,440,D)

AD 0820 Metallurgy; S-Magnetism; Persian & Greeks sign Secret Alliance against Japs; Romans-SNEAK ATTACK-Killed my Knight; HUT-50g (Roman Cont); HUT-Musketeer (team); HUT-50g (South team); HUT- Barb Kinghts (Roman team); Bribe-Barb Knights (2x82g,NONE); A02-Chartres(Gems,738,D); A02-LittleBighorn(Wine,860,D); Over 10,000 gold in bank; HUT-Crusaders; A02-Elephantine(Hides,440,D)

Mini Stats: Bank: 10,800+, Ironclads: 18+7, Caravels: 23+5, Caravans: 53+7

AD 0840 magnetism; S-Electricity; Sneak Attack-Persian warrior lost to my Mtn Crusader; HUT-50g; A02-Lyon(Beads,724,D); A02-Elephantine(Hides,440,D); Revolt-Antioc(544-68,BK,GR,MK,Arc); Persians-CF?(NO,300g?(YES), Peace?(NO); Subvert(2x132,War,making Walls); Met Persians; Peace?(NO), CF "expired"; HUT-50g (Team 2); A02-Chartres(Gems,738,D); A02-LittleBighorn(hides,344,N,(mistake)); A02-LittleBighorn(Dye,688,D); Start making Lots of Engineers for upcoming Refrigeration

AD 0860*Electricity; S-Refrigeration; JSBACH; Advances cost 2026b; A02-Rheims(Gems,1062,D,rec); A02-Rheims(Wine,885,D); HUT-Cursader(NONE, by Tyre); Gift-Sioux Nav, Inv (No to GP & SE) (Sci cost=1936b, saving 90b per advance); Greece-Peace?(YES), Demand Tribute-625g!! Prebuild code = Walls

AD 0880 Refrigeration; S-Leadership; Building Supermarkets in almost ALL cities but SGC. A02-Pharsalos(Silver,515,D); Took Ravenna (29g); Sunk Barb Caravel in ocean (5 units killed); HUT-Barbs (6 Knights, 1 musket on Mtn; my Crusader is Dead Meat); A02-Orleans(Salt,756,D); A02-Orleans(Wine,945,D); Bribed Sioux War, Phx (67, 126, NONEs), Explorer;

AD 0900 Leadership; S-Democracy; A02-Lyon(Hides,724,D); A02-Wounded Knee(Wine,840,D); A02-Wounded Knee(hides,672,D); Killed-Ldr; over 16,500 gold; Spent about 4,000 on SMs; Bribed Sioux Warrior (69g, NONE); HUT-Dragoons (NONE, Roman Cont); HUT-25g (team 2); HUT-Musketeers (Team 1); Killed Lrd at C12; Persians-Peace?(NO), 100g?(NO), dmd tribute(WAR!); Greeks Declare War (Alliance); Revolted Pharsolas(678g-80,GR,MK,Phx,Set,Sz2,making Dip,no Anarchy); Greeks offer CF(NO), 1150g????? (YES YES!! New World's Record!!), Peace?(NO WAY).

AD 0920 Democracy; S-Conscription; 27 SMs in one turn. ; A02-Slim Buttes(Beads,776,D); A02-Slim Buttes(Wine,970,D); ; Revolt Slim Buttes(695-115,War,Phx, Caravel, no Anarchy); Bribe Grk Phx (165g, NONE), Grk Sett (368g, NONE); Bribe Sioux Musketeer, war (138, 53, NONEs); HUT-Dragoon (NONE, Bear Paw Island);

AD 0940*Conscription; S-Tactics; HUT-3 Barb Knights, Team 2; A02-Athens (Salt,516,D); A02-Thermophyle (Silver,520,D); A02-Argos (Silver,630,D); Bribe-Greek Sett (276g, 236g,NONEs); Killed Barb Tri (5); Bribe 2 Persian Elephants (106, 100g K06); Capture LBH (119g,ORACLE,BK,Sz4,No Anarchy); A02-Wounded Knee(hides,648,D); A02-Lyons(Beads,748,D); A02-Lyons(Hides,748,D); A02-Thessolonica(Salt,302,N); HUT-South Pole-2 Barb Knights; Bribe 1(82g), other Dip is Dead Meat; Will keep Bear Paw as Pet.

AD 0960 Tactics; S-Fundamentalism; ADAM SMITH; Sneak Attack-French Tri on my Galleon; Revolt-Kildeer(64g-24;Phx,Sett,no Anarchy, RB SM); Barb Knight did NOT attack-it disappeared; Greeks - Peace?(NO), 200g?(YES); HUT-50g (Team 3); HUT-50g (Team 4, Persia); Bribe Persian Warriors(51g,115,NONE), Phx(306g,NONE,next to Capital); A02-Orleans(Salt,756,D); A02-Orleans(Wine,945,D); ; A02-Corinth(Salt,700,D)

AD 0980 Fundamentalism; S-Amphib War; Bribe-Greek Sett (288g, NONE); Legion (144, NONE); War (53g, NONE); Sci Cost=2346b; Gift Sioux ALL but Fundy & Tactics; Swap Maps; Sci cost = 1632b; HUT-Adv Tribe (East Cont); Bribe barb horse (41g, from Hut long ago); Killed Ldr at C15; Bribe-Barb Elephant (82g,NONE,at Rouen); Killed Barb Stack (Rouen); Capture-Persepolis(24g,GR,No Anarchy); Bribe 2 Persian Sett(200,NONEs); Revolt Pasagrade(228-28,BK,GR,CW, GREAT LIBRARY, 2 Arch, NoAnarchy); Revolt-Susa (236g-23,BK,GR,LB,Phx,Lg, No Anarchy); Bribe-Sioux Sett (176g,NONE); A02-Cedar Creek(Dye,688,D); A02-Cedar Creek(Cu,688,D);A02-Cedar Creek(Coal,344,N); Bribe Sioux War(22g,NONE); Subvert Cedar Crk (2x270-17,GR,HB,3Units,No Anarchy); Met Sioux (CF "Expired"); Revolt Wounded Knee (159-6,GR,HB,Phx,No Anarchy); bribed Roman War, Leg (51,230,NONEs); Bribed French Wr (117g,NONE)

----------------------- AD 1000 ---------------------------

Pop: 6.79M (Fundy); Score 584
Tax: 80% (1179g/cost=153g)
Sci: 00% (000b, 0T) (54 Total Adv, Researching Railroad; Advs cost about 1716b)
Lux: 20% (Some cities in WLTPriest Day)
Prod: 220MT (110T poll, 0 polluted tiles)
Cities: 47
Wonders: 14 (Ancient: Pyr,Col,LH,HG*,OR*,GL*; Ren: STWA,KRC,MPE,MC,ME; Ind: LW,JSB,AS) *=captured

FORCES:
65 Engineers (12 in prod)
13 Musketeers
49 Riflemen
06 Fanatics (6 in prod)
01 Elephants
01 Crusaders
01 Knights
30 Cavalry
02 Cannon
32 Galleons (2 in prod)
25 Destroyers
23 Diplomats (3 in prod)
65 Caravans (16 in prod)
04 Explorers

AD 1000 Amphib War; S-Railroad; A02-Neapolis(Silk,564,D); A02-Neapolis(Wool,188,N); A02-Neapolis(Gold,188,N); Capture-Neapolis(-35g,no Anarchy); Capture-Antium(GR,MK,,no Anarchy); Rome-CF?(NO), 200g?(YES), Peace?(NO), End; Bribed 2 Roman Horse(2x69,NONE); A02-Athens(Salt,516,D); Greek-Dmd Tribute-WAR!; Bribe-French Warriors(145,115g); Capture-Athens(26,BK,no Anarchy); Bribe Elephant, Archer, War (102Athens, 76NONE, 26NONE); Revolt-Stony Lake(106-10,GR,2Units,Sz3,No Anrchy); Bribe Greek Sett (204,NONE); A02-Thess(Gold,298,N); Capture Thess(-7,No Anarchy); Revolt-Delphi(244-14,MK,GR,4Units,Sz3,No Anarchy); Revolt-Mycenae(244-13,GR,Archer,Sz3,No Anarchy); A02-Argos(Silver,600,D); Revolt-Argos(120-12,BK,GR,MK,no Ana); Bribed French War,Leg66,246,NONEs)

---------------END--------------

EDIT: Improve formatting.

starlifter

Jul 15, 2002, 08:48 PM

Comments so far:

After about AD0500, I inserted spaces between years to make it more readable.

Gold. At peak, I hit over 20,000 gold in the bank. This was because of the low-maintenance empire, and no real growth for a very long time. That's bad for GOTM score, but good for gold and science. I simply could not spend the gold, even though every other turn every city was producing something. No city was actually making anything from scratch.

My only large city is my SGC:

1 - Size 21 (SGC)
1 - Size 10 (Captial)
1- Size 8
1 - Size 7
4 - Size 6
Everything else is below 6.

I used 6 or 7 food caravans from several cities (4 food routes) to help the SGC grow.... the food routes continue to feed the SGC, but at the expense of those source cities.

The Lux are 20%, which is what the SGC needs to maintain celebration. At first it was 40%, then 30%, and now 20% (with MK-BK-SE). This is mainly for Lux, but of course it really helps gold too (235 gold per turn ). Note my stellar 2 beakers of science output. This is the total output of my entire empire. Multiply this by the reported number of turns for an andvance, and walla--- you know the exact amount of trade you need to deliver to get the nexat advance. Short on a turn? easy. Gift the Sioux.

Well, this is "Power Fundamentalism" in action, and it can be quite tedious & slow going. I will diagram the exact mid game trade routes in a later post, for those who might like to see how it's working from low earth orbit....

It is my opinon that the PF will not lend itself well to high GOTM scores, as it does not result in a fast win nor WLT_ growth.

I have never played a game that was this dominate in terms of gold early on, but that's because of the early Fundy. Fundy is fun for a romp, but is obviously not well balanced if used from BC4000 (as expected; however, it is rather run for a change of pace!). There are many subtle effects of early Fundy... one can really run wild when no support shield costs to hold you back in the early years.... Run wild in all aspects except growth, that is :(.

Sidenote: it would be interesting to try a game of "Set Democracy"... that is, play Demo from 4000BC ;). Talk about an early game mess with unhappiness fo units away, hehe..... UNLESS..... Smash would "spot" the human the wonder of Womens Sufferage! Now that would be nice and doable.... but I digress. But THAT could really be good, esp. at Emperor perhaps.

Back to the game.... There were several major trade route shifts. The first trade system was with the Egyptians, and I let one city survive with several freight standing by in case they were needed to continue the once advance per turn.

The most radical shift was about AD0400, when the routes had to move south for two reasons.

1. I needed the Egyptian cities for myself, esp. the Hanging Gardens for happiiness.

2. Navigation. The 200% bonus was kaput, and so longer distances were needed to keep the bonuses maxed.

The southern shift began to the west coast of the Roman continent, and gradually shifted further south in stages, while ships trudged along the southwestern shore looking for more lucrative trade partners.

The final shift was to several French cities that earn survival because of the demands (repeaters in hides, salt, dye, copper, wines, and beads). It takes 8 7-move hops to get freight down there, and a full chain is almost always used. The excess that accumulates in post-industrialization are put into forts by the cities. A vet destroyer wipes out any AI units that are built in the AI cities.

In AD0900, I set a new record for an AI offer for early game cease fire... 1150 gold!! Unbelievable. Another time it was 600, and I was able to get out of the treaty on the same turn. My reputation is and has been spotless, as usual.

There may be comments in the log somewhere about the AIs being in Despotism. The AI was just not growing cities the way I expected, and now I know why.... it is a limitation of the "Set Fundy" game setup. LOL, it was annoying me at one point till I discovered the mention of it in the threads.

About trade bonus.... I had a few 1,000+ gold caravans before railroad, around the AD0860 time frame. Most are only about 600 to 700 though, including after Corp. Never dally after RR with getting to Corp, assuming you are using trade (and assuming you like gold and beakers!).

As mentioned before, I'm keeping some AI cities around gor trade bonus reasons, if they have the demand and distance I'm looking for (namely, 4 French cities, one eqyptian, one Greek, and the Sioux Pet). Shortly a few Frenchies will bite the dust..... sooner if they become non-repeaters. In any even, all after flight except for the Sioux pet, as SHs and Airports outweigh the foriegn bonus (since none of them will have SHs or Apts).

Here is my SGC (Super Gold City... I never made a SSC, which is not efficient in Fundamentalism):

http://www.civfanatics.com/uploads/Civ2_GOTM_AD1000_A02-SGC.gif

Here is my Power Graph:

http://www.civfanatics.com/uploads/Civ2_GOTM_AD1000_PG.gif

And the Demographics:

http://www.civfanatics.com/uploads/Civ2_GOTM_AD1000_Demographics.jpg

EDIT: add more info.

starlifter

Jul 15, 2002, 09:28 PM

Map and flow of Mid Game trade

I have made a special graphic that I'm not going to post as a pic yet, since it gives away a great deal of info that some people may not yet wnt to see even in the Spoiler thread. It is a "low-orbit" screenshot of my core empire to the lucrative trade destinations by the south pole. However, I will post a link to it, and you can download the graphic.... this way, if someone does not want to be "corrupted" by seeing the detailed map, they won't.

This map was shortly after AD1000. RR is discovered (trade cut by 33%), but after Corp is discovered (freight 50% bonus). The trade destinations are tiny, no-capital, probably very high corruption cities. Any regular trade partner must yield 700+ gold/brks to be spared the revolt of my mighty Diplomats (which stand ready next to each trade city).

What is the most valuable commodity in the game, as measured by gross contribution of Gold and Science? Easy: hides. They are repeatedly demanded in several places. I also have a French salt repeater, worth 700 for every Salt caravan I can scrape up. Hides get about 750 (to different cities, but same demand bonus, namely none).

BTW, cities that make hides (repeaters) do almost nothing else.

How do I figure what to build? easy. What do the cities want? Then look at trade advisor and find who makes it. I don't deliver undemanded cargo one third of a world away. If a city wants hides, then all my cities that make hides drop what they are doing, and pump hides out. Ditto with Gems, Dye, Copper, Wine, Beads and Salt. Everything else is nice, but no cigar (unless a faraway demand arises). Commodities like Coal, Spice and Gold sit idle at the SGC docks, in case of future demand.

The flow goes from the SGC to the destinations. The ships themselves are nothing. Pump them out, and pulse them down the line. Whatever happens to them at that point is inconsequential, but generally, they try and wander back or take a hut-popping team and hunt barbs, AI warriors & settlers (NONEs), or maybe go snag a city.

The key is never ever allow yourself to run out of ships at the SGC. No ship at the SGC means no advance next turn, unless you can make and defend a stockpile down the line (which is difficult before Industrialization!).

The primary flow is in red. The caravans are stored in the light blue circles, and are delivered to the French cities and the Sioux pet city (they are circled in red). The exact route is shown by the red arrows. each individual arrow is a single ship's path. Total up the arrows, and that is how many ships it takes (or # of turns if no chain) to get there.

The return flow of ships, as well as the feeder routes to the SGC are shown in yellow. Rail links the overland segments in the core empire & old Egypt.

Eventually, you can set up a return flow (the yellow arrows in my map)

Here is the map and trade details of mid-game (65KB JPEG):

starlifter

Jul 16, 2002, 03:07 AM

So far I'm arround 880AD, with other 5 civs. I finished off Egyptian long back. Now I realize it's a big mistake to lose this ideal science/trade partner, but it's too late. Now I'm trying to build up the partnership with Persian, but it did not pay off a lot.
You might try trading with the Sioux or French. Rush buy a bunch of ships, and let 'em rip.

Although I planned to do it from the very beginning of the game. It's much postponed due to the lose of HG. My capital, size 13 West Lake is making 44 trades per turn.
Remember that only the Base Trade of a city counts (that is, minus the value of the 3 trade routes). Your capital sounds like a good trade hub. Build a Harbor, MK, BK, & SE. Put all possible citizens in the water & on trade specials, increase Lux until it celebrates, then drop the Lux to about 20% (just enought to keep it celebrating). Then run caravans from it to faraway AI cities across the water.

If you can use the Colossus city for trade too, irrigate and make it grow, and buy it a harbor, MK, BK, and SE too. Hopefully, it is an oceanside city :).

Send them to Rome, and try to make it our new science partner.
As your get faster ships, you should expand your trade further away than the Romans to get the biggest payouts. The Egyptians were also too close after Nav, so killing Egypt was not that bi a loss. :)

starlifter

Jul 16, 2002, 03:18 AM

by onejayhawk:
Where the H___ did they hide that thing?
.....
PS How in GGE did anyone finish before the Dark Ages.

You can use the Find function to find any wonder city, including undiscovered cities. :)

We have some good early conquer playrs. Cactus Pete was about the best from the old days of last year. This map would be a tough one for an early finish, however, as locating opponents is difficult in early years...

by Narz:
Those Persians were such a b*t*h to find!! I had carvels combing the globe.
If you are superior, you can gift about 5 or 6 techs and swap maps with them. That's what I usually do at some point, to make sure I find all their cities (both for trade and for conquer). But kill them quick if you gift them military tech (they decide the 2 choices they will take :( ).

sekong

Jul 16, 2002, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by starlifter

You might try trading with the Sioux or French. Rush buy a bunch of ships, and let 'em rip.

The problem is I don't know where Sioux is yet. :( French seems to be far way.

Remember that only the Base Trade of a city counts (that is, minus the value of the 3 trade routes). Your capital sounds like a good trade hub. Build a Harbor, MK, BK, & SE. Put all possible citizens in the water & on trade specials, increase Lux until it celebrates, then drop the Lux to about 20% (just enought to keep it celebrating). Then run caravans from it to faraway AI cities across the water.

If you can use the Colossus city for trade too, irrigate and make it grow, and buy it a harbor, MK, BK, and SE too. Hopefully, it is an oceanside city :).

Good idea. Yes, it's a coastal city. Even better, it has a short river. :) But there are forest arround :( It's on north pole, I don't have enough settlers there to build road, canals, etc. Is SE=supermarket? I' far from it yet. :(

As your get faster ships, you should expand your trade further away than the Romans to get the biggest payouts. The Egyptians were also too close after Nav, so killing Egypt was not that bi a loss. :)

Marlos

Jul 16, 2002, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by sekong
SE=supermarket?
SE = Stock Exchange, dude

starlifter

Jul 16, 2002, 11:07 AM

The problem is I don't know where Sioux is yet. French seems to be far way
If the Sioux have a wonder, use the Find function to locate the city where the wonder is. It will take 8 to 10 turns for the first ships with caravans to arrive in France, but the payout will be thousands of gold and science. I was (am) running over 30 ships in this game, just for transprting caravans, freight and dips. Once the long chain of ships is estabished, you'll get an advance per turn.

Is SE=supermarket? I' far from it yet.

SE= Stock Exchange.

I have a list of terms (and more) here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=324457#post324457

anarchywrksbest

Jul 16, 2002, 11:08 AM

:nono: Starlifter, that find city trick is banned in the rule i think....

sekong

Jul 16, 2002, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by Marlos

SE = Stock Exchange, dude

Thanks a lot Marlos. :) Then it's further from me than SM. In this game SM have higher priority than SE. SM can make city grow faster, which is essential for a fundy only game. :)

starlifter

Jul 16, 2002, 11:20 AM

Starlifter, that find city trick is banned in the rule i think...
Not that I know of; however, it is possible that something might be in thread discussions from last October to this past May when I was gone.

The only rule change I was aware of is not using Airfields anymore.

However, I think Duke is going to consolidate the rules into the rules page so it is easier for people to find them (e.g., not needing to use the Search function to sift thru threads).

Update: Do you know where you noticed the Civ 2 Find Function restriction? I still didn't have luck locating it. :eek:

sekong

Jul 16, 2002, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by starlifter

If the Sioux have a wonder, use the Find function to locate the city where the wonder is. It will take 8 to 10 turns for the first ships with caravans to arrive in France, but the payout will be thousands of gold and science. I was (am) running over 30 ships in this game, just for transprting caravans, freight and dips. Once the long chain of ships is estabished, you'll get an advance per turn.

I have 15 triremes now all over the world. I'm still exploring. Yeah, maybe ship-chain is something I have to build. Still, I don't think I can get as much bonus as you do. I checked yr post, and found out that your SSC having 100+ trade, 78 base trade. My capital is only making 33 base trade. The Colossus city is making up to 28.

I can see that Sioux is making contact with Rome. I may swap map with one of them.

SE= Stock Exchange.

I have a list of terms (and more) here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=324457#post324457

Thanks. It's helpful.

anarchywrksbest

Jul 16, 2002, 11:44 AM

:nono: The Ship Chain isn't allowed either, more the pity...

Old n Slow

Jul 16, 2002, 11:57 AM

Reading through Starlifter's stuff :eek: is exciting/uplifting/ at least very enjoyable. If nothing else, it is fun to watch a harmless exercise of enormous power at work. :goodjob:

For my part, I wanted to see if I could avoid one of my weaknesses to overdevelop and instead build more cities -- results are somewhat mixed, but hopeful. So far:

-3900 -- Hut -- Currency (one of the five techs I wanted next)
-3800 -- Kyoto (founded with a road for an arrow); decided to research Alphabet
-3600 Warrior off & searching
-3500 -- Hut -- Masonry (another of the five techs I wanted)
-3000 -- Osaka
-2950 - Kyoto builds a settler (Hey we’re most advanced! look at the great science of the Fundy research staff!)
-2550 -- Discover Alphabet, now opt for Writing (need to record the amazing fact of the previous line (lol). Three cities, now, three searchers, three settlers in process; barbs appear -- and we have no dips & no defenders…
-2400 -- Hut -- Archer -- Yes! (just in time, but a bit away from the action.
-2250 -- sacrifice a Warrior to the chariot/Barb leader; The chariot then dies to the rush built settler hiding in Kyoto (which is now building a wonder); And the horse arrives in time to punish said Leader. Yes oh yes (two new settlers arrive next turn) my archer becomes an Archer (vet) with the other chariot.
-2100 -- 2nd Bl (yes again)
-1800 -- 3rd Bl, but at the cost of a settler
-1750 -- learn writing (800 years--which is about how long it took me to learn how to write, lol), opt for map making
-1450 -- At 5 cities, one at size 3, the rest at size 1.
-950 -- learn maps, opt for Code of Laws 4th Barb team shows, but the leader gets away (rats)
-725 -- 4th in land area, 7th in military service, 2nd in lit, 1st in remainder; pop = 250K, have 9 cities; 3 boats in prod., 3 sett, 3 dips, one each of pha, horse, Arch.
-650, -- discover Code, opt for Trade
-475 -- French build Hanging Gardens
-375 -- Persia builds Col.
-325 -- have Trade, go for Lit; now have 11 cities
-75 -- have Lit, go for Math;
20 -- Build LH (2nd wonder, already have Pyr)
80 -- Build MPE; 12 cities; 2nd in approval & land, 7th in mil, 1st in rest. 6 sett, 1 (2in prod) pha, I Ar, I H, 4 boats, 4 dip, 3 car (8 in prod)
-------------------------------
Am further along, will log later.

sekong

Jul 16, 2002, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by anarchywrksbest
:nono: The Ship Chain isn't allowed either, more the pity...

Really? Then I don't have to worry about much. Operating ship chain make game more tedious.

starlifter

Jul 16, 2002, 12:32 PM

I have 15 triremes now all over the world. I'm still exploring. Yeah, maybe ship-chain is something I have to build. Still, I don't think I can get as much bonus as you do. I checked yr post, and found out that your SSC having 100+ trade, 78 base trade. My capital is only making 33 base trade. The Colossus city is making up to 28

It depends on the year.... I did not have 77 or 78 base trade in AD0001 (it took till the mid 600's), but definately expect it by AD1000 at the absolute latest.

BTW, the absolute max number of trade arrows the Colossus can contribute directly is 21 (Size 20 city with all 21 trade-producing tiles).

I just made a post on trade in this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=375504#post375504

Even if you have half the trade, due to a smaller city and/or lack of celebration/Colossus, you can still get an advance every other turn, all other things being equal (e.g., exact same deliveries and routes). Every other turn, with 0% science, in Fundy is still very very good. :) :)

I can see that Sioux is making contact with Rome. I may swap map with one of them.
Yes! Yes! Map swapping is ver important to early/mid game trade.... it lets you spot the best routes.

starlifter

Jul 16, 2002, 12:44 PM

The Ship Chain isn't allowed either, more the pity..
Well, I know you are incorrect about that. The ship chain is not disallowed, for sure. Where did you get that info, BTW?

About ship chains.... If you send out a ship of stuff each turn, once it starts arriving, like 8 turns town the road for a distant destination, you will still have a steady chain of ships coming in. The key is to send out a loaded ship each turn. Your first routes take a long time to set up, as it takes a while for the ships (esp Triremes/caravels with no LH/ME) to get there.

As a final note on Ship Chains vs. Chain of Ships... it takes the same number of ships, and the same amount of resources to move the cargo. The difference is the lag, if you are unable to provide a shipload of cargo on a turn. That gap won't show up for several turns. Initial ship chains are identical to chain of ships in initial startup time, too.

Be that as it may, ship chaining is perfectly acceptable (moving cargo from ship to ship in mid ocean) in GOTMs. Unless a rules change has occurred that has not been posted ;).

sekong

Jul 16, 2002, 01:23 PM

Yes, I use to like Colossus, because I use to play
SSC with several supporting cities a lot. But GOTM changed me a lot. Because to have good score in GOTM, you need a lot of cities. :( Therefore Pyramid become the 1st choice of wonder. I didn't plan to use international trading at the beginning , so GL become the next wonder I was heading for. Now I know you are right, with MP, GL is pretty much useless. Although I did get math, BB, and several other science from it. Next I have to make choice between HG, LH, MP. Colossus even was not in my list. And I got only MP. Other civs built HG, LH, and Colossus at the same time. If I play a same game again, I may build colossus and LH first, then pyramid/MP.

For the trading thing, I'll do it anyway. Although the bonus will be much less than yours. Do plain research under fundy is a real pain. :)

starlifter

Jul 16, 2002, 01:26 PM

PS, I did a seach for Ship Chain, and there is no disallowment posted anywhere that shows up.

Further, The Civ 3 GOTM has had a recent poll on it, and it got an 80% approval rating from the players.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23364&highlight=ship+chain

Here is non GOTM discussion from last year:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=697&highlight=ship+chain

Here is an example from last August (non-GOTM use):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=823&highlight=ship+chain

Here is one of my posts in a trade thread, about 2 weeks after joining CFC over a year ago:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=6012#post6012

In the Civ 2 GOTM, here is some routine discussion that entions ship chains (the earliest date that the search turned up):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=75137#post75137

So before you jump in and say something's disallowed, it's best to cite the source (so we can all see it for sure).... that's because incorrect posts like the 2 you made in this thread could tend to mislead the newer folks if you're incorrect ;).

So just to clarify for everyone, ship chaining is allowed, and in fact, is not even frowned upon by the vast majority of players. There is nothing at all even "shady" about it to the vast majority of players..... use it if ya'll don't mind the micromanagement ;).

starlifter

Jul 16, 2002, 02:23 PM

OK, here is some more stuff about ship chaining:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=310243#post310243

As you can see, even last month, the very first post by Smash talked about using 5 ships to chain for trade.

You might have misunderstood the discussion arising from the FCT, and referring to Duke's thread asking what was allowed last year:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=367591#post367591

Of the 10 questions he put forth, only #1, #4, and #10 are currently disallowed GOTMs:

1. Airbases - I know this one is allowed in GOTM. (this was disallowed starting several months ago)
4. Unsinkable Triremes, uncrashable planes. (only works in MGE, said Smash)
10. Food Caravan Trick (never was allowed in GOTMs)

#1 was allowed in GOTMs for the first year, and was disallowed several months ago (maybe about January).

The other 7, including ship chaining (#9), are allowed, and have never been considered unacceptable, and in fact are merely techiques. Most take micromanagement to perform, and are not even sonsidered shady by most Civ 2 players. The list arises from Duke of Marlbroough's original list of 10 questions last year. They are allowed in GOTMs. They have never been disallowed, either.

ALLOWED:

2. Using 'find city' or 'go to' to find undiscovered cities.
3. 'Seeing' unexplored land. (map clicking)
5. Irrigation anywhere. (use K function to irrigate with no adjacent water)
6. Seeing enemy's explored land (not trading maps) (using enemy's mini map in a city status screen)
7. Nuclear sponge (nuke trap)
8. Settler/Engineer storage (engineer pre-build & change work)
9. Cargo Shuffle (ship chain)

:)

onejayhawk

Jul 16, 2002, 06:35 PM

Finally found that last pesky village in 1889. That not bad for me. I usually build ships.

J

starlifter

Jul 17, 2002, 12:16 AM

In order to clarify and centralize just what is allowed and what is not allowed in GOTMs, I've started a specific thread here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=376390#post376390

This will make the info and discussion easily locatable by all GOTMers, and reduce confusion. Any GOTM player is encouraged to make input, esp. if you think a change in GOTM rules should be addressed :).

sekong

Jul 17, 2002, 01:46 PM

Played another session last night. Got Navagation and Gunpowder. The Gunpowder was mainly due to trade bonus. 200+ gold each deliver. Dye and copper seems to be the most popular demanding ones in my game. Beads and salt are rare. A long list of cities demanding silk but all my cities. Wine seems to be good.
Lost 2 cities to barbarians. :( It was pretty much a mistake. I have dip nearby, but I bribed a ship first, then it can't move :( Next turn the city fall, and the ship and all unit at that square lost. :(
On Greek side, they used a vet trireme to sink my one trireme and one caravel! Togather I lost a dip on ship. That was the darkest session on military wise. Good thing is I bribe one of the city back from barbarian, and bribe a STWA city from Greek.
I sawped map with Sioux, and found out they are on a small island, with 4/5 pityful cities.
The best trade partner city seems to be Paris, but I need to go arround a long way to get there.Proposing to build 2 canals to take the short cut by pass a in-land lake on Rome side.
That seems to be a long journey before I can finish. :( End game is really tedious. Should I just let other cities autobuild?

Kev

Jul 17, 2002, 07:30 PM

Looks like some interesting games! Looking forward to seeing some of them.

I just finished myself. I played an OCC game. How, you ask? Well, as kind of a goof I went forward playing an OCC game BY CONQUERING. Yup. Had to make sure that every city I took was size one and without city walls so I would remain "pure" in my game with just one city only.

It was a blast. Actually, I didn't really think I was going to be able to do it, but I took it seriously and thought out my strategy over a great deal of time. I didn't really start a log until about 475 BC, but I'll post what I have and my basic strategies in the next day or so. It's late now and I am a bit frazzled.

Thanks to Smash for providing a very cool game to play!

starlifter

Jul 17, 2002, 08:26 PM

I went forward playing an OCC game BY CONQUERING.

I tried some OCC conquer games last year, without the Gov't restrictions of course, and I found Spies were key (hordes come in via RR & poison the cities down to size 1, then conquer/destroy to avoid ever possessing a 2nd city. I would usually split at least one civ per game, too.... did you split any civs? Maybe not, as the AI was stuck in Despotism & usually dirt poor.

Looking forward to your account!

starlifter

Jul 17, 2002, 08:31 PM

Should I just let other cities autobuild?

This is only my pesonal opinion on autobuild: I will never use it. Ever. If I feel I have to use it, I won't finish a game. Why? Because I rarely rarely build something from scratch to completion... and rarely do two cities need the same build sequence, esp. because of the caravan/freight supply in it.

I just scroll rapidly through all city screens at warp speed at the end of each turn. Sometimes, I just scan the city advisor instead.

Narz

Jul 17, 2002, 09:18 PM

I have learned alot from these GOTM games, mostly from Starlifter. For example I did not know that...
A : You could see all cities with wonders
B : If you give the AI enough techs they will trade you maps

If I had known this b4 I finished the game I probably would've finished 50 years earlier because my forces wouldn't have had to comb the globe as I did. Its good I know now though. I was wondering if there are any other game "goodies" that are legal that I can use to get an advantage. BTW, I already figured out about the "putting everyone on the water squares before you cash in a caravan trick".

One more thing, could you give me a breakdown (in layman's terms) of how the GOTM score is calculated, I get the jist of it but I'm not sure I fully understand the math.

Thanks,
Narz :king:

sekong

Jul 17, 2002, 10:44 PM

Originally posted by starlifter

This is only my pesonal opinion on autobuild: I will never use it. Ever. If I feel I have to use it, I won't finish a game. Why? Because I rarely rarely build something from scratch to completion... and rarely do two cities need the same build sequence, esp. because of the caravan/freight supply in it.

I just scroll rapidly through all city screens at warp speed at the end of each turn. Sometimes, I just scan the city advisor instead.
Then how do you speed up the game and get a high score at same time? I always think you can't get the two at same time. In my current game, each turn is very long now, due to many exploring units, cargo, settlers, etc.

starlifter

Jul 18, 2002, 02:59 AM

by Narz:
One more thing, could you give me a breakdown (in layman's terms) of how the GOTM score is calculated, I get the jist of it but I'm not sure I fully understand the math.
A high GOTM score is a combination of Civ2 score (without any early finish flat bonus), multiplied by a formula (the 50^PNP) that rewards speed of finish.

The 50^PNP means you must balance how quick you finish with how large your empire should be (many citizens increase the Civ 2 score). It also means that you don't need to play a "Hall of Fame Game" (e.g., a 15,000+ score in AD2020) to get a good GOTM score. In fact, delaying your finish to 2020 may make you have a high Civ2 score, but a low 50^PNP multiplier.... which means you probably won't have a really high GOTM score.

Download the Excel file & try plugging in your game score and game year about AD 500 and watch what your GOTM score is doing... if you play a full game to 2020, you'll probably notice that the GOTM score "peaks" somewhere along the way. That peak is the "ideal" time to finish your particular game.

Many times, the end game can become tedious (esp. if launching a SS), and it is best just to "end" it, even if the GOTM score is increasing (e.g., you are "ahead of the 50^PNP curve"). That was the case in both my last GOTMs, btw.

I was wondering if there are any other game "goodies" that are legal that I can use to get an advantage.
Last year, in the June to October time frame, there was a lot discussion in the Spoiler threads. Spoiler threads are always a good place for info. So is the link in my Signature block . And the CFC Search function is great for pulling up things like trade, combat, key civs, etc. etc.

I tend to post a lot of stuff... for instance in this Set Fundy game, I even started a separate thread with thoughts ahead of time about strategy changes to consider. Remember, every game is different... GOTMs are different than HOF games, for instance: HOF games do not have a time element (50^PNP). There are many strategies, but using Democracy and WLTP growth is one that works in almost all games (a fast finish can also give a high GOTM score even though the base Civ 2 score is low).

But the bottom line is that hopefully, people have a good time, discuss their game (whether it turned out good, bad, or indifferent).

starlifter

Jul 18, 2002, 03:18 AM

by Sekong:
Then how do you speed up the game and get a high score at same time? I always think you can't get the two at same time. In my current game, each turn is very long now, due to many exploring units, cargo, settlers, etc.
About score, there are limits to what one can do simultaneously. In a Democracy, you can fight a massive war and grow massively, due to WLTP days. Then instant growth of Republics & Democracies is the key in most GOTMs (but not GOTM 18)... but it takes effort, planning, rehoming of military units, and careful watch of improvements to extract the most out of Democracies.

Yes, it is turning out that this is one of the longest, if not the longest, GOTM game (timewise) that I recall playing. I speed up turns by making a "system" of city naming and forcing my units to have discipline (LOL, crack that whip...). For instance, prior to Airports, all trade will centralize to my core empire, and be stacked into piles of the same cargo (e.g., piles of Coal, Silk, Silver, hides, etc. etc.). When I need a given cargo to get gold./science, I go to the pile, take a freight, and either rehome it or deliver it to my SGC.

After Radio, things speed up a lot, because every single city gets an airport, and Freight & units simple fly from one spot to their final destination. Ships are slow (but necessary before Radio); Airports are fast (and give trade bonuses).

My navy speeds things up, by sleeping in mid-ocean in positions to cover maximum ocean and shoreline for AI & Barbarians. When the AI is under control, I don't move my navy around the board anymore.

There are two sure fire ways to avoid end-game 30+ minutes per turn: finish early (early conquer), and OCC. We had some other ideas of game variations last fall (esp. noughmaster, as I recall), but in the end, the playstyle is up to each participant & "real time" often limits what you'd actually "like" to do. :(

:)

sekong

Jul 18, 2002, 10:13 AM

Wonderful! All nice ideas! Cargo piling, Yeah, I'll do that. Sleeping ships? sure after I get steam Engine, my 4/4/7 Ironclad will be sent out. Airport using a real nice idea to speed up things, but it's far from me now. I guess I'll use RR + GOTO to speed things up.

I have never do OCC yet, just because I'm a big fan of huthunter, and don't like to starve my people out. But maybe I'll try it once, who knows.
If I had LH earlier, I may have tried a earl conquest.

Originally posted by starlifter
by Sekong:

About score, there are limits to what one can do simultaneously. In a Democracy, you can fight a massive war and grow massively, due to WLTP days. Then instant growth of Republics & Democracies is the key in most GOTMs (but not GOTM 18)... but it takes effort, planning, rehoming of military units, and careful watch of improvements to extract the most out of Democracies.

Yes, it is turning out that this is one of the longest, if not the longest, GOTM game (timewise) that I recall playing. I speed up turns by making a "system" of city naming and forcing my units to have discipline (LOL, crack that whip...). For instance, prior to Airports, all trade will centralize to my core empire, and be stacked into piles of the same cargo (e.g., piles of Coal, Silk, Silver, hides, etc. etc.). When I need a given cargo to get gold./science, I go to the pile, take a freight, and either rehome it or deliver it to my SGC.

After Radio, things speed up a lot, because every single city gets an airport, and Freight & units simple fly from one spot to their final destination. Ships are slow (but necessary before Radio); Airports are fast (and give trade bonuses).

My navy speeds things up, by sleeping in mid-ocean in positions to cover maximum ocean and shoreline for AI & Barbarians. When the AI is under control, I don't move my navy around the board anymore.

There are two sure fire ways to avoid end-game 30+ minutes per turn: finish early (early conquer), and OCC. We had some other ideas of game variations last fall (esp. noughmaster, as I recall), but in the end, the playstyle is up to each participant & "real time" often limits what you'd actually "like" to do. :(

:)

starlifter

Jul 18, 2002, 12:39 PM

I guess I'll use RR + GOTO to speed things up.
I forgot to specifically mention that... it starts with caravans and regular roads, in the BC era. I send the caravans on the way with the GOTO, and it may take 4 or 5 or 6 turns for a caravan to plod along the twisting roads to get to the destination. In this GOTM, I have some Freight slogging it out, turn after turn, from the old Persian empire (across those mountains), since that area is too darned remote even for one of my ship chains. It is likely that I'll reach Radio before the freight arrives at a port city, and makes its way to my SCG.

Once you get RR, then things move faster.... the backbone of the road system gets upgraded to RR, and ferry ships instead of chain ships move cargo between landmasses.

Then, comes Airport, and most ferry ships and almost all chain ships are out of work, unless an island needs settling somewhere.

In a competitive SP, non-GOTM game, those ships are part of the invasion fleet. GOTM games get the AI creamed early because the AI gets no "extra" advantages, like 3 or 4 or 5 settlers (I give the AI stuff to help it out, so we can get to modern combat, which is my favorite, but I've never had it in a GOTM :) ).

I have never do OCC yet, just because I'm a big fan of huthunter, and don't like to starve my people out.
Sorry, I don't understand what starving you people out has to do with OCC (OCC = One City Challenge). :confused:

sekong

Jul 18, 2002, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by starlifter

I forgot to specifically mention that... it starts with caravans and regular roads, in the BC era. I send the caravans on the way with the GOTO, and it may take 4 or 5 or 6 turns for a caravan to plod

Sorry, I don't understand what starving you people out has to do with OCC (OCC = One City Challenge). :confused:

Advanced tribe, which you suppose to remove if you are playing OCC. :(

starlifter

Jul 18, 2002, 03:14 PM

Advanced tribe, which you suppose to remove if you are playing OCC.

Ahhhhh....... I see. Well, there is a special rule in OCC for huts:

1. Before you enter a hut, save the game.
2. Enter the hut.
3. If the hut is an advanced tribe, then immediately reload, and try again. Continue until the very first result that gives anything except and advanced tribe.

This is the only case in standard gameplay where the game-specific rules not only allow a reload, but require it.

In OCC, you are never allowed to possess a 2nd city, even for a moment. You can have only one at all times :).

Here are the guidelines and rules most people play a standard OCC game by:

http://members.home.nl/paulvdb/occ.htm

It's often called the "Paulicy", after the name of the author.

I just downloaded the applicable paragraph from the Paulicy:

1.2.2. ADVANCED TRIBES

If a goody hut results in an advanced tribe you should reload. The easiest way to handle this is to save the game just before you enter the hut. You can then just reload that save and enter the hut again. If you forget to save you may reload the autosave from the beginning of the turn. In that case you must move your units the same as the first time, you must handle all diplomatic contacts the same way as the first time, all battles must have the same outcome (not only the winner, but also the amount of damage) and any huts you entered before the one that gave the advanced tribe must also give the same results as the first time you played the turn.

:)

Kev

Jul 18, 2002, 06:10 PM

True, as usual starlifter, regarding the OCC advanced tribes. I have to say that with so many huts that I dealt with in this game as OCC, there were times that I thought the game would NEVER give me something other than an advanced tribe. Like 15 times in a row I kept getting Osaka!

Anyway, I'll post my account later on tonight or tomorrow. As you mention, starlifter, I originally thought about going for spies and then poisioning/destroying walls then removing a single defender(rinse/repeat). The unfortunate reality that I knew I was facing was that the technology would just not progress quickly enough for me to get to espionage and then lay waste to the world that remained at the time. It was a double-edged sword: if I eliminated some civs, the tech progress would be even slower, but if I let them all live there would be too many cities to destroy before 2020. I realize that spies have no support cost and I could have had hundreds, but recall that they'd be sent back to my home city after each success (or captured), so the spy delivery situation would have had to have been flawless.

The slow-tech reaity became even more the case seeing as the other civilizations were mired in their own despotisms.

I actually finished the game as the only civ to even get to gunpowder - and that even very late in the game. Nobody got to Navigation, Sanitation, Railroad, or a host of other techs. Only one got Feudalism (which I stole right after) and that, too, was near the end of the game. With one city, there were just not enough caravans that I could build to produce the tech I wanted/needed.

I had a few lucky breaks in the beginning, or else I'm not sure if I would have pulled it off.

sekong

Jul 18, 2002, 07:09 PM

Thanks for the paulicy, starlift! I did not know that rule before.
And for Kev, thanks for sharing the interesting info. I believe the game have a tendency to give you what you lack when you open a hut. If you don't have enough city, then it's a tribe, not enough settler then a nomid, etc. Your story just prove my suspect. 15 times a roll! The probabilty of this is near zero, if all possible output are plain random.

Kev

Jul 19, 2002, 06:13 AM

To be honest, 15 times may be a bit of an exaggeration, but probably not too far off.

You know, now that it's been mentioned, I NEVER got a wandering nomad. I must have popped like 50 huts. I bribed a settler toward the end of the game to help put up some fortresses and roads in the Persian theater, but NEVER one from a hut.

Come to think of it, in GOTM 16 I played an OCC and also NEVER received a wandering nomad. What's up with that???

sekong

Jul 19, 2002, 06:48 AM

I guess the ratio between settlers/cities matters. my ratios is arround 1/2. I have got nearly a handful of nomads so far. (till AD1220)

Marlos

Jul 19, 2002, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Kev
You know, now that it's been mentioned, I NEVER got a wandering nomad. I must have popped like 50 huts...

Come to think of it, in GOTM 16 I played an OCC and also NEVER received a wandering nomad. What's up with that???

Kev, I can tell you that I have found 2 wandering nomads in GOTM18. One, I remember distinctly, was on the northern polar ice cap. Would the game somehow adjust for your playing it as OCC? I doubt that it is that smart.

Sekong, I wish that I could play with a 1:2 ratio sometimes. I am too expansionist, my ratio is generally 1:1. If would just quit expanding, I could probably have finished GOTM18 already! :rolleyes:

I've never played OCC. Perhaps I will try it sometime.

Kev

Jul 19, 2002, 09:16 AM

Well, I've played other OCC games in the past where I have received nomads, so I don't think that the game was out to get me or anything. It was just very curious.

I have seen in the past where the game will only give me one nomad on a certain continent. If I used the nomad then to build a city, then the chances seemed to be better that I could get another on that same continent.

In 'normal' games, I'm like you, Marlos. I expand like a maniac and find that I have too few settlers/engineers around to complete many tasks.

One final bit of curiousness regarding my game was the score I received. I was given the score of like 1945 or somewhere near that, a 232% or so and was given the title of "magnificent". Seems awful high for having one city which was only size 12.

sekong

Jul 19, 2002, 09:50 AM

Wow, 1945 for OCC? I far from 1/2 of it. :(

sekong

Jul 19, 2002, 10:07 AM

About the OCC score. I guess it's much due to the fact that you did a OCC conquest one. You are the only city/civ left. You get a lot bonus point from that.

starlifter

Jul 19, 2002, 01:14 PM

I have seen in the past where the game will only give me one nomad on a certain continent. If I used the nomad then to build a city, then the chances seemed to be better that I could get another on that same continent
I try to record all hut outcomes in my logs, and will be including a certain screenshot of one series of Pops on the Persian continent (Nomads/ATs).

I ran several hundred hut pops for that post I made a couple days ago here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=376772#post376772)

That setup was at BC4000, and popping 125 huts in a row... I summarized all statistics. The entire map was plains, except for poles, so there was only one landmass. The emphasis was early game Barb & AT info. I had one run with (I think) 6 ATs in a row. I also had a stretch of 6 Techs in a row one time. Never had a really bad (devastating) streak of Barbs (see Brian Reynolds' game philosophy for why).

Thanks for the paulicy, starlift! I did not know that rule before.
No problem... that is where I learned a lot about OCCs, and also from reading the game logs of guys like Smash. OCC play definitely helped my Single Player games, too, BTW. Smash and others at Apolyton used to play OCC games (see the end of the Paulicy), but I don't think they do anymore.

If enough people are interested in OCC (they are very fast games, and can be done in one sitting), we might do some here at CFC... BTW, I've played some of the same games in the Paulicy (about 4 or 5, long after the competitions were done, just for fun) and my SS year never beat Smash's! ;)

The Size 4 OCC is interesting.... I did not think I was going to no way no how do THAT.... but sure enough, it worked out fine. I've never tried a Samson game of Size one OCC. :eek:

One final bit of curiousness regarding my game was the score I received. I was given the score of like 1945 or somewhere near that, a 232% or so and was given the title of "magnificent". Seems awful high for having one city which was only size 12.
What year was it, and what were the scoring breakdowns?

Kev

Jul 19, 2002, 01:15 PM

sekong

Jul 19, 2002, 02:33 PM

It's still going slow.

Trade, the first cargo from North Colossus city, deliver silk to Veii finally. A new mark of 695 bonus! Next to that was the cargo from Tsingtao to Sparta, 396 bonus. Pretty good for a fast deliver. Sad thing is some of the science bonus wasted. About 600 more beakers was needed for SE. But after these 2 delivery, and 10% science rate, next turn, I got SE, but about 500 beaker was lost. Anyway, I still got the gold to bribe cities, and rush build.

First ironclad was built, cracked down one Musketeer in Athen, a nearby caravel cracked down a WE, city is empty! Took the city and we get walled Athen with KRC, Oracle. Now the rest of Greek, wait for my diplomats. ;)

[One thing I don't understand here is Greek have 900+ gold, and they should have Masonry, but they did not get a new capital after fall of Athen. Is this a game option, or because they are under despotism? Any one enlight me? ]

Not much beside that. Build up canal to the northest of ROME. No much ships at that direction yet.

The problem, if I can say problem, is no good cargo to deliver. A lot of bead cargo piles up near Port Nara. The highly demanded Dye, Copper, Wine runs out. And we decide to forbid further product of hide to protect animal right. :)

One of the problem I struggle with was dealing the cargoes on the ship and try to reorganize them in middle of ocean. Finally I figured a way to do it. :)

Anyway a slow but fun session. Get ready for RR.

LordValuna

Jul 19, 2002, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Kev
To be honest, 15 times may be a bit of an exaggeration, but probably not too far off.

You know, now that it's been mentioned, I NEVER got a wandering nomad. I must have popped like 50 huts.

Come to think of it, in GOTM 16 I played an OCC and also NEVER received a wandering nomad. What's up with that???
Obviously, the result of hut popping is not random, only pseudo-random.:scan:
Like the ODEO days for changing govenments which is totally non-random.
Like the placement of special terrain squares
And the benefit/result of giving a Tech depends on your power-graph position

Duke of Marlbrough

Jul 19, 2002, 09:01 PM

Please Submit all games to dom@civfanatics.net

This is a different account than what was used for last months game. There were some problems with the old account.

Smash

Jul 19, 2002, 09:37 PM

Generally in occ you keep your 2nd non settler.That is enough to eliminate the possibilty of a nomad.Have the settler join the city and I can almost guarantee you will get a nomad.I used to think only 1 per landmass at any given time but now I also beleive the number of cities somehow ties in.There may be, and probably are, other factors.But a good general rule is if you want nomads, then build cities with them ASAP and you'll get more.

grigor

Jul 19, 2002, 11:04 PM

Well, unlike the brilliant strategies of Kev and Starlifter, I didn't do a very good job of analysing the starting position this month. I saw that trade was going to be necessary, but I totally misssed the value of pyramids with no WLT*D growth until I captured them from the Egyptians. I handled Marco Polo's especially weakly, unlike Smash's beautiful dance. (Real concert violinists don't necessarily handle all situations so well..LOL) And Starlifter's particularly elegant trade bonuses through foreign trade was something I read about after I limped to a clumsy conquest finish. No fourth place this month - I will be lucky to be in the top half. Basically I couldn't readust my play to the all Fundy game and tried to build a SSC. That wasn't pretty. Top science beakers of 32...

But clobbering the AI with vet knights remains a lot of fun.

I tried to get wealthy with temples and bonus tithes, but it was not as successful as foreign trade would have been.

I bribed the last city just as I was about to get explosives - I suppose I could have changed to a SS game, but the turns were already very long. But what I really like anyway is building railroad lines on a large map, so I should have stayed in a few more turns.

Next month space ship for sure.

starlifter

Jul 20, 2002, 04:06 AM

As a quick note, I'd like to apologize for listing my score. I know it's a no-no even if I didn't mention my ending date. However, it seems like an aberration and I was wondering if someone had an idea as to why the score was so high.

I recall Matrix saying that he'd generally prefer people not post their score, but I often do in my logs... it does not matter to me personally that people know ahead of time, but no one should be forced to (e.g., I don't see it as an actual rule that you cannot).

If you total up the individual scores in your game, see if that agrees with the Civ 2 final score. You get 400 points for the SS, plus 100 for peace, plus 20 for each wonder (about 10 probably... say 200), plus about 24+18=42 for your city (a total guess), plus 25 for a barb.

Using the suggested entry form from here: (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=369619#post369619)
CFC User Name:
Kev

Civ 2 version
Classic

Method of Victory:
SS Landing

Finish year / Finish Turn:
__________ / __________ (Spreadsheet has a year/turn table in it)

CIV 2 SCORE (On the turn of SS landing or year of Conquer)
42 - Citizens (approx 15,810 max)
200 - Achievements (560 max)
400 - Spaceship (400 max)
100 - Peace (100 max)
0 - Future Technology (1275 max)
25 - Barbarians (set at start; -50, -25, 0, +25)
0 - Pollution (0 or negative; -10 per skull)

767 - Civ 2 Total Score

Note: Early Finish Bonus does not count; all Civ 2 scores are computed manually, as above.

The above is an estimation of an OCC game in general. So my guess is that the game gave you a bonus in your score of 1945. :)

starlifter

Jul 20, 2002, 06:54 AM

The problem, if I can say problem, is no good cargo to deliver. A lot of bead cargo piles up near Port Nara. The highly demanded Dye, Copper, Wine runs out. And we decide to forbid further product of hide to protect animal right.

Beads were very valuable in my game because the AI was in Despotism. I found an Egyptian high demand (not a repeater, but frequently re-demanded) bead destination, and then another one in France. I have a pile of beads in a fort next to the empty French city, and when it wants beads, they go in until it no longer wants them. I have a true demand salt repeate (Orleans) and 3 demand hides repeaters. Plus Dye and Wine and Copper, but I don't have that many cities that make the latter 3.

[One thing I don't understand here is Greek have 900+ gold, and they should have Masonry, but they did not get a new capital after fall of Athen. Is this a game option, or because they are under despotism? Any one enlight me? ]
They need 1000 gold or more at the moment they want to move the capital; 900 is not enough. They do need the gold, but that alone is not enough to guarantee their gov't will flee and form a new capital (new palace city).

I think there is at least one more factor (contrary to some people's posts), but I have yet to see anyone nail it down (lots of speculation, but no verifiable answers). I have not had time to test this properly, but I know even if a civ has a palace, democracy gov't, all techs researched, 10,000 gold in the bank, and top of the powergraph with several size 20+ cities, that this is not enough to guaratee the AI will move a capital (maybe part of it may have to do with game turn). It's not high on my list to find out (though I did just search the threads at Apolyton for you, and they only have mismash about it). Maybe someone in Scenario design or a European forum might know the exact conditions.... or someone would like to test it? It's a good question.... but the main tactical factor that I'm normally concerned about is how can I stop the AI capital from moving... and I know that by reducing it's gold (one way or another) below 1,000 will end the "Government Escaped to ..." messages, and they won't have an instant palace (capital) anymore when I'm trying to wipe out an entire civ in one turn during late game.

:)

sekong

Jul 20, 2002, 07:21 AM

So 1000 gold is needed for capital moving? That's a lot for those ancient civs. :) Next time I'll try Rome. They have 1000+ gold. I guess maybe time is the factor you looking for. We witness capital moving in modern age game very often. About no capital move in Democracy, maybe the AI is smart enough to know that they don't need a capital under Democracy. If this is the case, they may do the same under Communism, even Fundy? Just speculations.

About my trade, I found most bead demander are inland cities. Paris do demand it, but my ship can't reach there yet. I'm waiting for the coming of Corporation, then 2-move freights will make inland trading easier.

Kev

Jul 20, 2002, 04:46 PM

Regarding capitals, did anyone else find that there were a BUNCH of capital moves being made by all of the AI civs?

This goes back to a discussion in one of the Civ2 forums. I saw TONS of capital movement, and I think it was due to the VERY slow pace of tech that I forced upon the world (both by killing and by design). I think when the AI builds all of the improvements available at that tech level, and deems that it has enough units out there, then it starts building a palace just to basically have something to build. One can see where this would happen more in Deity level given the quickness that the AI can build.

If I recall correctly, I had two cases where the AI capital bounced all over, only to end up back again at the original capital city. LOL. Again, this makes sense under my theory, as the original capital is more likely to have built all available improvements and have a fair amount of units in the field.

Just a thought - don't know how it could be put to use, but what the heck.

sekong

Jul 20, 2002, 08:15 PM

I replayed a bit of GOTM 18 when I get bored with slow late game. DUring the replay I saw a lot of AI Capital move. That means two thing, they have masonry. They don't have much other techs.

texta

Jul 22, 2002, 08:34 AM

out of the shadows i have risen, all will know that i am the greatest civ 2 player ever. I finished in 440 AD. Not to good for me in Diety. MUHAHAHAHAHA

Old n Slow

Jul 23, 2002, 09:26 AM

120 -- 12 cities. 6 AI’s with 26 cities among them 9 (range from 1-9), average 10 techs each (range from 8-14) trade with all, going from 4 Icys, an Un & a Neut to 6 Receptives & peace. Probably should have pushed harder & gone for maps. Traded for Republic twice & received…nothing (note to self, some day research the infinite gifting tech…) Oh, well.
Time passes -- must be a fun game.
640 -- 17 cities, 1.5Mil. pop., 24 Techs, 24 turns to get the next tech. Discover the Romans, French, & Egyptians as neighbors.
980 -- 25 cities, 3Mil pop.
1260 -- 31 cities, 4.3Mil pop., 30 Techs, I per 9 turns. 5 AI’s with 32 cities among them (Egypt had a fire sale…or rather some fire and sales), average is about 23 techs each (range 19-27)
1380 -- discover San & opt for Feud over Inv, Mono & 4 other choices
1530 -- Trade for Feud, get Bridge, hut gives Inv set 80 tax, 20 Sci -- > 2 Wonders to do ASAP
1540 Find Greeks (maybe some day I’ll give enough to get maps…)
1600 -- Gunpowder ‘Nuff said
1620 -- 55 cities, 8M pop.
1630 -- Last turn built STWA; Persians, who were on the verge of STWA, switch to Leo’s. This turn we finish Leo’s, the Persians abandon Leo’s (but they know Medicine & ST is available -- what causes this idiocy?)
1660 -- 61 cities, 9M pop. It is an effort for me to push the engineers out to the fringe when there is so much good land waiting to be irrigated -- I’m even leaving some unroaded spaces (old habits die hard, I suppose) 4 AI’s remain (Rome saw the light & joined when the joining was good) 29 targets (oops I mean cities) average 29 techs to my 35 techs. should get around to setting up a boat chain some time.
1690 - 10M
1740 -- 11M
1750 -- discover explosives, opt for Steam
1756 -- some caravans land -- discover Steam opt for RR?, no, Chivalry, no. …mega typo we choose ATOMIC theory! Yes, yes, and the crowd roars ARGH! (sounds like a new poll for the general discussion -- most aggravating oversight (not rush building the wonder when you were warned, etc.)
1760 -- French choose to reset their flags as green
1766 -- 73 cities, 14 Mil pop. 3 AI’s remain, 27 cities among them
1768 -- 15M pop., now we opt for chivalry
1780 -- 84 cities, discover chivalry
1782, -- discover Leadership -- caravans make a world of difference
1786 -- 18 M pop. Discover Monotheism opt for Mag.
1788 -- 19M pop., 3 AI’s, 23 cities among them.

So far so good.
:)

noughmaster

Jul 25, 2002, 07:19 PM

Well, I've just managed to start this game after the effort of moving house.
Not having to worry about unhappiness makes it pretty easy.
I'm in 200AD. I have about 27 techs + 24 cities. I used Marco Polo + gifting techs to accelerate the science race. Now I think I'll close off that avenue because I'm starting to conquer people with Knights + Diplomats. I used my good reputation from gifting techs to reveal everyone's positions. The triremes can island hop to get them all (I think).
Just got King Richard's Crusade, so I can produce well. I'm researching Navigation. I think I should manage to conquer everyone before 1000AD.

GaryNemo

Jul 25, 2002, 10:30 PM

I have avoided Knights for a long time, so I could buy Warriors and Horsemen to speed production. It's true, I've lost a lot of Elephants and Crusaders, 10 of them, 26 other casualties, plus 5 Dips and 8 Explorers, wandering into enemy territories. Maybe this time MP and getting maps would have helped.

1340 AD, Leonardo busy upgrading Cannon etc: Metallurgy, choose Physics over Chivalry, Bridge, Chemistry, Banking, Gravity, Theology. And the Greek walls come tumbling down. Greek caravans scramble demand, we demand tribute, exhausts Greeks, WAR! Sunk Barb Caravel with 4 troops! Fdd Wheate, CornSilke, Piraeus, Suwhala. Hispalis Gems to Kyoto PAID $219+2. Killing Greeks.
1360 AD, lost an explorer & Crusader, many veteran promotions. Bribe Greek Elephant $162. Abydos Silver to Tokahama PAID $105+1, Fdd Nicomedia, Hut: 50g, Cannon & Crusader storm Athens, $32+60, Oracle, Great Wall, Market. Pop 15390,000 in 76 cities.
1380 AD, Rome Silk to Kyoto PAID $210+3. IPRB Crusaders for $94. Bribe damaged Elephant for outrageous $312, kill Dip, Bribe another $282.

1400 AD, PHYSICS, Choose Steam RR over Chivalry, Chemistry Engr, Magnet Fridge, Banking, Gravity, Theology. Just noticed I have Bridge Building! Oops! Rheims fires futily, Delphi repels Barb Legion. Kyoto Dye to Pharsalos PAID $224, Kyoto Salt to Rheims $336! Fdd Edfu Hill Mine. Pop Polar Hut: 2 Barb Knights, bribe Persian Elephant $346! Storm Thermopylae, Barracks, $21. 50,00,50%
16000,000 pop 77 c, $714 -78, Sci 247/6, Mfg=380 FS=5.7, 36.tech

sekong

Jul 26, 2002, 09:08 PM

AD 1280 First Ironclad built at Pharsalos. Attack Athen. Take Athen with Oracle and KRC. Bribe two Greek cities: Herakleia and Artemisium. CF with Greek. Caravan arrive Little Bighorn(Tsingtao, Gold, 188, Un) (osaka, silver, 156, un).

AD 1300 Bribe Sparta(255, disorder) Caravan Arrive Rheims(Capital, Beads, 388, R) Bribe Dijon (french, 128) CF with French. French discover Democracy. CF with ROME, CF with Sioux.

AD 1320 RR! S-Industry. Talk with ROME, war. kick Rome cat. Greek and Sioux declear war. Bribe Greek cities(3). Cargo arrive Lyons(Gems, Capital, 395,R) Veii(copper, Pasargadae, 296, R); Veii(Copper, TsingTao, 184,R); Veii(Gold, Pasargadae, 148,N);

AD 1340* Industry!, S-Communist. Darwin's Voyage! Communist, Espionage, S- University. Bribe Sardis.

TimTheEnchanter

Aug 04, 2002, 07:39 PM

After 15 months, I’m back! For the first time since GOTM 3, I managed to start and complete one of these things – and I didn’t even start until after the 20th! My log is a mess, so I tried to distill some important facts (hope I got them right) and other bits of wisdom.

Basic strategy going in:
Take maximum advantage of fundamentalism tithes.
Sleaze to get many, many cities.
Get trade for caravans for both wonders and science boosts.
Get Monotheism, build Mikes, and then rake in automatic tithes from many small cities.
Finally, kick ass with rush built crusaders (later dragoons) and - most importantly - diplomats with deep pockets.

Key dates:
First city: 3950bc
First tech: 2650bc (alphabet)
First colony on new continent: 1150bc (Nagasaki)
First contact with foreign civ: 900bc (Romans)
First domestic trade goods delivery: 825bc
First wonder: 625bc (MPE)
First foreign trade goods delivery: 75bc (Hides delivered to Thebes)

Situation in Ad1:
Population 1,560,000, 2 wonders (MPE, MC), 20 techs, 30 cities

Wonders Built:
MPE 625bc
Mikes 75bc
Leos 260ad
SunTzu 500ad
Great Wall 600ad
Magellan 720ad
Oracle 800ad
JS Bach 860ad
Copernicus 880ad
KRC 1020ad
Shakespeare 1040ad

Wonders Captured
Lighthouse 460ad (Athens)
Hanging Gardens 540ad (Corinth)
Great Library 740ad (Little Bighorn)
Pyramids 780ad (Orleans)
Colossus 1080 (Thebes).

Selected techs
Map making - 2150bc
Trade – 1000bc
Writing – 800bc
Polytheism – 625bc
Monotheism – 250bc
Invention - 25bc
Gunpowder - 260ad
Navigation – 500ad
Theology – 760 ad
Explosives – 1060ad

Civs destroyed:
Romans 120ad
Sioux 760
Greeks 780
French 900
Egyptians* 1080
Persians 1080
*Thebes was Pet City trading partner for centuries

Mistakes:
Had early uncertainty on tech path. Wavered between ships, trade, dips, and “–theisms”. I waited too long to get diplomats – cost more to rush early units because no 30 shield unit.

I still have a hard time sticking with sleaze techniques as number of cities grows. Didn’t micromanage production queue or rush-building enough to really do it right. Often abandoned settlers or caravan production for units to explore, fight wars

Didn’t trade techs aggressively enough with AIs, even with MPE. Didn’t give much at all to key civ (Sioux).

More tech uncertainty: After invention, started going for Navigation to upgrade to caravels before going after gunpowder. Ended up changing direction halfway through and getting gunpowder first.

Didn’t deliver enough camels. Could have seriously accelerated science with aggressive deliveries.

Didn’t realize that Bach generated tithes until late in the game– could have researched theology and built it much sooner than I did and had much more cash to work with.

Sloppy management where I didn’t watch production carefully, didn’t plan ahead well, and stopped sleazing for a while once I started to go out conquering.

Probably should have gone for celebrations everywhere once I had HG. Didn’t think of it until the end.

Didn’t trade techs to share maps with Persians when I should have. Once they were the only civ left, I knew where their early cities were, but I hadn’t figured out how to actually get to them. Wasted a lot of time trying to find ways to get there, and finding the last few cities. To a lesser extent I spent a few unnecessary turns hunting for the last French and Greek cities as well.

Other random thoughts:
MPE was invaluable for getting important techs, contacting other civs, and getting maps early to find civs. I could have spent centuries looking for the last Persian city, had I not exchanged maps one last time. That city was not at all near where I thought it would be.

Built Sun Tzu and Great Wall mostly to keep them out of the hands of other civs. Some wonders were built more for score than usefulness (Shake’s, Cope’s)

Had a couple hide repeaters who kept dumping hide caravans onto Thebes (repeat hides demand) which had Colossus. Three more hide repeaters were added mid to late game to push final tech advances.

Once I had HG, I hired an elvis in the Hides cities (they were only size 4) to keep them in celebration to increase payouts. Of course I put elvis to work on a trade square when I delivered. ;)
As end game approached, most cities were cranking out settlers and plopping them into every nook and cranny I could find to get more tithes. (also more population points) I had enough cash, I probably could have gotten up to 255 cities (very small ones!) had I really been trying to rush more settlers and sail them to other continents. I was getting over 1000g per turn for the last couple hundred years and didn’t spend it all.

I could have researched more wonder techs (TOG, Democracy, Economics) instead of University-Chemistry-Explosives near end of game. Although 2-move engineers really helped plop down cities for the last 2 turns, I’m not sure which would have helped score more – probably the wonders

I didn’t read the Power Fundy description before playing (Still haven’t really studied it). It probably would have helped me. Even so, I was making around 1500g and researching at a rate of 1 every 7 turns (not counting camels) at the very end. I had science pegged at 50 until the last turn and only created trade caravans every few turns as I could afford them while still inciting cities and rushing other units. Most caravans did not pay for the rushed shields because cities were so small, but I was doing it for the beakers. Probably should have had caravans flowing much more frequently.

If my notes are correct, I added 97 cities (88 built, 8 captured, 1 advanced tribe) between 920 and the end of the game in 1080 (9 turns). 63 of those were in the last three turns when I took all my settlers/engineers and had them stop working to go build cities wherever possible.

Ali Ardavan

Aug 05, 2002, 02:07 AM

I finally finished by conquest in 1901. I ended up with 183 real cities; I did not bother to turn every engineer into a size 1 city. Though I did add some of them to existing cities.

My initial plans were for a quick victory. I decided to not make any science or happiness improvements and concentrate on units first and commercial improvements second. I also decided that my top priority wonders were: Great Library, Pyramids, Marco, Leo, Darwin, and Hoover dam.

I soon realized flaws in my plans. Science was too slow even with trade, so I decided to build libraries in my larger cities after all. I also realized that I have underestimated the Tithes generated by happiness improvements and started building temples.

As for wonders, Great Library and Marco are useless together. You need one or the other not both. (Although getting both made me better understand how GL actually works.) Also, I should have gone for Great Wall, not because I needed it but to keep it out of the enemy's hands. Michael Angelo's and Bach were other oversights. They are a gold mine under fundamentalism.

The map was another challenge. Starting position was not very good. I decided to look for a better place. In the process I found 3 huts and got 25 gold, Wheel, and a horseman. Built my first city in 3550BC; I wandered around for too long.

I played in 2 sittings till 100AD. At this point I had 7 cities on my island and had not sailed yet. I had Great Library, Pyramids, Marco, and ready to get Leo as soon as the tech became ready. Others were busy building wonders too. By then, I had missed Colossus, Great Wall, and Sun Tzu. Soon I realized that I am going to need Magellan's more than anything else and went for that and got it.

French Destroyed Romans in 3300BC. It was year 600 before I found Egyptians. I decided to have peace with them and use them as a trading partner. This was an excellent decision. I choked their growth where their continent got narrow and claimed the southern part of their continent. Two things helped me achieve this. Barbarians took over their city near the choke point and I got it from Barbarians. I also found an advanced tribe further south on their continent.

Around 1000 I found Persians. They were too far to be my first adversary. Right around this time the Greeks were making a real pest of themselves. They soon allied with French which I had just found on my South. The invasion of the Franco-Roman continent started around 1300. This was a big continent.

By 1836, French were down to 3 cities including heavily fortified Paris. I timed it so that I achieved Conscription and built Darwin's in the same turn (1836). I got Tactics & Amphibious warfare from Darwin’s. These along with Leo which I had alreay built gave me a huge instantenous advantage over my AI enemies. Paris was captured in 1836 after I threw 1 Cannon and 8 Cavalry at it. These were stationed in a fort built right adjacent to Paris by a pre charged Engineer.The Cannon and 5 Cavalry died. Capture of Paris gave me Colossus and Sun Tzu both of which were active. The remaining two French cities were bought off and the French were destroyed.

Next, I went after Sioux who were allies with French and Greek. I had already discovered some of their cities compared to none of Greeks. Most of their empire was conquered in a decade. It took me a while to locate their last city. They were totally gone in 1867.

Greek main land was discovered in 1851. Meanwhile, one of the small Greek cities I took over in the Franco-Roman continent was bribed back by Greeks and they also took Amphibious warfare (Marines). At the time it seemed like a significant set back, but in practice I moved fast enough not to encounter many Marines. In 1856 I consumed 7 diplomats sabotaging Athens till I destroyed its city walls! Then I killed its 4 defending Musketeers and a ship and took it over. Greek capital moved. I started buying Greek cities. For example, Corinth was bought for 1015; it was 3315 before fall of Athens. Once their homeland was conquered the remaining cities were eary targets. It only took as long as it did because they had not just spread out to the nearby islands but have also built a tiny city in the middle of Persian forest. They were gone by 1887.

In 1876 Persians broke the cease fire I had signed with them without provocation. Their timing was perfect, as by then I was just mopping up the Greeks. The invasion of Persian continent started right away. Because of the location of Perspolis and location of my army, the Persian capital was among the last Persian cities to fall and thus I had to pay premium prices for the ones I bribed. Perspolis fell in 1888. By 1890 Persians were down to a single city I could not see.

In 1880s Egyptians started landing troops on my islands. These troops did not attack or pillage just moved around. In 1892 I put 4 full transports worth of troops on their home land. In 1893 the attack on Thebes started. It took 4 spies to take the city walls down. 4 Cavalry killed the 4 defending Riflemen. Thebes is defenseless and I have no troops nearby to walk in it. I sent an empty transport to a close by city of mine and took a cavalry without spending movement points of the cavalry. Then transferred to a second and third transport till I could land it near Thebes and it took Thebes. After fall of Thebes, Alexandria’s asking price for revolt dropped from 7650 to 3290. Heliopolis, Abydos, Byblos, Asyut, and Lisht were all bought off immediately. I this turn I also destroyed the sizable Egyptian navy. Egyptian civilization fell in 1895.

The search for the single remaining Persian city got more heated at this point. Finally, in 1899 a Persian settler ran into a sentry of mine and helped me discover this last city. It was bought off in 1901.

Right before the end, I had over 180 cities, over 100 engineers, and over 100 cavalry (them and Marines were the most advanced military units in the game).

GaryNemo

Aug 05, 2002, 06:03 AM

I finished in 1660, had too much of everything, a few ship chains too late, generally everything too late. However, by expanding vigorously at all times, there was no trouble from the AI. Huge losses of course, but they nor the Barbs were never a problem for the Huge Glorious Fundamentalist Army.

Occasionally spending several $thousand in one turn, I generally had gold to burn and did not use it wisely. Built more and more Harbors. Finished major Rail lines after 1600, made little use of them. I never developed Knights, hence the Crusader losses, but was able to IPRB Horsemen for 20g all game. I eventually was building many Horse, thinking I'd convert them to Knights...

This continues my log from page 1?, and a short note on the 1400AD era on the prior page, page 4. Read below as you wish -- I have also included 2 links to big invasion pictures.

1400 AD, PHYSICS, Choose Steam RR over Chivalry, Chemistry Engr, Magnet Fridge, Banking, Gravity, Theology. Just noticed I have Bridge Building! Oops! Rheims fires futily, Delphi repels Barb Legion. Kyoto Dye to Pharsalos PAID $224, Kyoto Salt to Rheims $336! Founded Edfu Hill Mine. Pop Polar Hut: 2 Barb Knights, bribe Persian Elephant $346! Storm Thermopylae, Barx, $21. 50,00,50%
16000,000 pop 77 c, $714 -78, Sci 247/6, F11 Mfg=380 FS=5.7, 36.tech Greece, 1400 AD (http://www.eplanoffice.com/hampton/greece18.jpg)

1420 AD, French fire futily at guarded Cannon target, Persians kill wandering Explorer and Crusader, we weep. Blasted the last Rheims Warrior, we'll leave them with a stout circle of guards. Cannon blast Delphi, capture Marco Polo, $31. Our enemies have 23 cities, no tech, no gold. Bribe Greek Settler $296, None. Subvert Sparta for $664, got $80+60 Market & 3 troops, building walls! Bribe Phx $70, None. Subvert Corinth $474, got $54 Barx Market & 4 troops. Bribe Archers $100, None, immediately killed, RIP.

1440 AD, Fdd Busiris. Subvert lonely Sardis $90 -9, 2 troops. Greeks in disorder, delaying Caravans. Abydos Gems to Kyoto $168+2, Fdd Troy. Bribe Gr Elephant $132 None, Archer $99 None, subvert disorder Knossos $266 -88?+60 Barx Market +2.troops, bribe Catapult $124 None. Bribe stale Fr Settlers $216, Fdd Rouen. Subvert Persepolis $220 -19 & Settler 2.troops. Sank ancient Barb Trireme w load of 4, we're Vet. Treasury $2289, 17640,000 pop.

1460 AD, Leonardo busy upgrading obsolete units, STEAM ENGINE, choose Chemistry Engr over Railroad, Chivalry, Magnet Fridge, Banking (French researching), Gravity, Theology. Kyoto Wine to Rome $175, Kyoto Dye to Greek Pharsalos $196. 7.Ironclads in.prod. Subvert Mycenae $414 -59+60, Barx Settlers & 2.troops. Hut: 100g
1480 AD, Barb Elephants near Busiris again. Kyoto Wine to Pharsalos PAID $260, foolish Barb leader $150. Bribe Settlers $220, None. Fdd Slake. Another Crusader lost. Plan: Engineers, Railroad, Darwin, Refrigeration, engulf Persians, scout world.

1500 AD, CHEMISTRY, choose Explosives Engr over Railroad, Chivalry, Magnet Fridge, Banking (French researching), Gravity, Theology. Barb Crusaders threaten AI Arbela. Asyut Gold to Hakodate PAID $174+1. Fdd New Bighorn. Hut: 100g. Pharsalos reduced, Rheims reduced again. Bribe Persian Phx $282.
19230,000 pop 90 c, $849-102, Sci 277/6, Mfg=456 FS=5.6, 38.tech 2.Barx.captured 3.Sewer+2 16.Aqua+8 18.Market+3 18.Library+2 24.Harbor+4 55.Settlers+20 53.Dip+12 20.Caravan+16 30.Caravel+2 105.Musket+3 36.Crusader+2 14.Horse+3 17.Cannon+1 9.Explorer+3 and 9.Ironclad in.production.

1510 AD, Barb Elephants near Eretria outpost. FIRST IRONCLAD. Bribe Persian Elephant $450 None. Subvert Argos $256, got 32+60 Market Settler & 2.troops, subvert Marathon $124, got $14 & Legion. Bribe Persian Legion $250 None. Hut: 100g.
1520 AD, Massive Barb army near Lugdenum! Outrageous! Sidon fires! Bribe Greek Warrior $25, Settler $204 None. Horse walks into Sidon, $35. Subvert Ephesos $310 -43+6- Market & 2 troops. Ghastly lull in Caravan deliveries... Nara Gems to Lugdunum PAID $150. 20170,000 pop, Score 594+260+25 = 879.
1530 AD, many veteran promotions, but Rome lost a Settler due to my negligence, I weep, Thessalonica didn't fire. Rome Gold to Satsuma PAID $198+2. Bribe Persian Warrior $67, None. Located Tyre, Hamadan destroyed. Subvert Thessalonica+ $180 -28, Legion Wine & 2.Whales.

1540 AD, Persians offer $100, No. Tyre murders cruising Crusader.
Barb Elephants near Sardis outpost, kill trecking Dip. Leonardo busy upgrading obsolete units, and new ENGINEERS. Choose Railroad over Magnet Fridge, Chivalry, Banking (French researching), Gravity, Theology. Wounded Knee Gems to Kyoto PAID $354, Rome Coal to Kyoto $180, Kyoto Dye to Phasalos $208, Hispalis Gems to Manila $54, Kyoto Beads to Besacon $150. Destroyed Lugdenum intrusion. Musket storms Troy, $18. Founded StPetes, Cherbourg. Hut: advanced tribe Singapore.
21920,000 pop 99 c, $953-119 Sci 297/5 Mfg=524 FS=5.6, 39.tech

1550 AD, Greeks demand Gunpowder, No, then WAR! Barbs at new Cherbourg frontier, repulsed. RAILROAD, choose Magnet Fridge over Chivalry, Banking (French researching), Gravity, Theology. Hunting Barb Leader: $150. Pharsalos Warrior reduced. Cumae Gold to Yokohama PAID $134+1, Paris Gold to Nagasaki $132+2.
69.Engineers+17 62.Dip+17 24.Caravan+19 33.Caravel+9 117.Musket+1 38.Crusader+1 14.Horse+3 18.Cannon 11.Explorer+3 and 5.Ironclad 3.in.prod. Treas $5690, can't spend it all.

1560 AD, Greeks fire futily on our Muskets. Fdd Triple. Bribe Grk Settlers $188, None. Subvert Herakleia, only Pharsalos remains. Wounded Dye to Pharsalos PAID $86. Crusaders succumb to Antioch treachery. Bribe Elephant $172 None, subvert Susa $776, got $70 4 structs, Settler & 3.troops. Fdd Dariush Kabir. Hut: $100g. 23490,000 pop, all city targets located...
Peak Kyoto: Sz 15 food +12 Trade 45 Tithes+3, Tax 39 Sci 44,
Kyoto just built Univ, has Colossus Mike's Copernicus etc

1570 AD, DARWIN, wasted prior Caravans. Magnetism, Electricity, choose Refrige over Chivalry, Banking (French researching), Gravity, Theology. Treacherous Antioch built Warrior that slaughtered our new None Elephant, I was impetuous. Kyoto Wine to Rheims PAID $317, Slim B Gems to Kyoto $238. Have 17 Horsemen that will never be Knighted.
1580 AD, Barb Frigate sank our Destroyer! 24130,000 pop. Lyons Silver to N'Goya PAID $117+2, Hispalis Gold to Satsuma $128, Besacon Gems to OsakaSS $82. Fdd Halicarnassus. Destroyer reduces Tarsus, bribe Phx $161 None. Subvert Bactra $411 -34 Phx. Bribe Settler $876, None, Subvert Tarsus $783 -73+60. Subvert Arbela $987 -57+60, they offer $105 to live in peace, No. Buying Harbors for growth.

1590 AD, Persians kill our new Mtn Phx, Fr develop Banking! Samaria destroyed. Bribe Persian catapult $628 None, Phx $168? None. Pasarg, 1590 AD (http://www.eplanoffice.com/hampton/pasarg18.jpg)

1600 AD, Refrigeration, choose Gravity Newton over Chivalry, Banking (French researching), Theology. Tyre Elephant charges futily. First Cannon shot at Parargadae. Paris Spice to Manila demand PAID paltry $52, Avignon Gold to Nagasaki $132, Cumae Silk Kyoto $186, Rome Gems to Kyoto $136. Hut: $100. 25930,000 pop.

1610 AD, Antioch killed another Horse... Antioch warrior destroyed $13, Subvert Tyre $330 -$24, Settler about to vanish, reduced Pasargadae, could end game, Kyoto Copper to Paris PAID $162, Wounded Gold to Nagasaki $184. 26550,000 pop, Score 927.
81.Engineers+18 74.Dip+12 26.Caravan+19 43.Galleon 131.Musket+11 38.Crusader+1 16.Horse 19.Cannon 13.Explorer+3 and 6.Destroyer.

1620 AD overtime, choose Bach over Chivalry, Banking, Atomic. Fdd Omega. Captured Rheims $102, FRENCH DESTROYED. 27690,000 pop.
1630 AD overtime, Built Eiffel. 29070,000 pop, Score 990. Paris Gems to Kyoto $220.
1640 AD overtime, Barb Elephants SLake. Built Isaac Newton. Nara Gold to Paris PAID $218? Cumae Gems Kyoto $196. Pharsalos reduced, subvert $82 -28, GREEKS DESTROYED, Pasarg remains. 29940,000 pop, score 1025.
1650 AD overtime, Theology. Built Shakespeare. 30890,000 one more turn.
1660 AD overtime, Built Bach, Barbs every turn! 32970,000 pop,
34350,000 pop, 20,80,00% 1252+360+25=1637, 266% Tokugawa Magnificent.

starlifter

Aug 07, 2002, 01:25 PM

Here is my final log segment, AD 1000 - AD 1580:

AD 1000 Amphib War; S-Railroad; A02-Neapolis(Silk,564,D); A02-Neapolis(Wool,188,N); A02-Neapolis(Gold,188,N); Capture-Neapolis(-35g,no Anarchy); Capture-Antium(GR,MK,,no Anarchy); Rome-CF?(NO), 200g?(YES), Peace?(NO), End; Bribed 2 Roman Horse(2x69,NONE); A02-Athens(Salt,516,D); Greek-Dmd Tribute-WAR!; Bribe-French Warriors(145,115g); Capture-Athens(26,BK,no Anarchy); Bribe Elephant, Archer, War (102Athens, 76NONE, 26NONE); Revolt-Stony Lake(106-10,GR,2Units,Sz3,No Anrchy); Bribe Greek Sett (204,NONE); A02-Thess(Gold,298,N); Capture Thess(-7,No Anarchy); Revolt-Delphi(244-14,MK,GR,4Units,Sz3,No Anarchy); Revolt-Mycenae(244-13,GR,Archer,Sz3,No Anarchy); A02-Argos(Silver,600,D); Revolt-Argos(120-12,BK,GR,MK,no Ana); Bribed French War,Leg66,246,NONEs)

AD 1020*RR; S-Industrialization; Killed C15 Ldr; HUT-Rifleman(H04); Bribe Sioux Musketeers(63g,H04)
Greek Archers,Catapult(73,98,NONEs); Subvert Sparta(2x240-20,MK,3Units,No Anar); Cease Fire Expired; Dec War; Capture Rhodes(-8,no Ana); Revolt-Corinth (232-16,2,GR,MK, Arc,No Ana); Killed Barbs at Sea (5); A02-Lyons(Beads,488,D); cost=1950b; Peace-Sioux(1 city left); Gift Sioux ABF (3 techs); Cost=1896b; A02-Grenoble(Wine,644,D); A02-Grenoble(Hides,515,D); Set 60-20-20 for next advance

AD 1040 Indust; S-Corporation; French - Start Cope X2; Capture-Paris (112g,GREAT WALL); French: CF?(NO), 650g?(YES), Peace?(NO!), Subvert (2x26-0g,No Ana, was size 1, no defender); Met French-Peace?(NO!), "Cease Fire Expired"; Revolt-Avignon(159-1,GR,War, NoAna, RB a Harbor), Revolt-Rheims (265-2,BK,GR,MK,HB, ); HUT-100g(South Pole); Subvert-Leutetia(2x240-5,GR,war,No Ana); Met Romans - CF Expired; Capture-Rome (-11g,GR,MK,) ; Revolt-Pompeii (216-4,GR,HB,War,noAna); Save Chartres (it wants Gems) and Orleans (it wants repeater Salt); A02-Lyons(Cu,475,D); A02-Lyons(Beads,475,D); A02-Orleans(Salt,467,D); Orleans(Salt,467,D); Revolt-Cumae(270-5, GR,War,naAna); Revolt- Besancon(106-1,War,noAna, RB SM); Bribe French Sett, Cat(168,84) ********68 Cities now*******

AD 1060 Corp; S-Electronics; Subver-Permagon(2x58-5,War,noAna); Greek CF Expired; Bribe French Sett(172g,F11); Bribe-Roman Phx(73g,NONE); HUT-Adv Tribe(South Islands, Team5); HUT-100g(Team6); Revolt-Hispalis(216-5,GR,War,Arch,noAna); Revolt-Marseille(270-6,GR,Leg,noAna); Bribe French Sett(172g,NONE); A02-Lyons(Beads,712***NOTE THE INCREASE FROM 475g, DUE TO FREIGHT INSTEAD OF CARAVAN***,D); A02-Lyons(Beads,712,D); A02-Eleph(Hides,472,D); Main Line RR is done; Sci Cost is 1818; Stockpile of 2 advances now in place; Only 8800 gold now, but 28 freight coming (70 active).

AD 1080 Electronics; S-Genetic Eng; Killed Lrd & barbs near C15; Bribe Roman Sett(168,NONE); Virocronium(216-17,2units,GR,noAna) ; Bribe French Sett (172,F09); HUT-50g; HUT-100g(Team5); A02-Bear paw(Beads,700,D)Ao2-Bear paw(Beads,350,D)A02-Grenoble(Beads,376,N); Gems-Chartres(Gems,738,D); Buy 3 Factories & build Hoover Dam.

AD 1100* GenEng; S-Steel; Cost=1882b; A02-Orleans(Salt,700,D,repeater); A02-Orleans(Salt,700,D); A02-Grenoble(Hides,752,D,repeater); HUT-50g(Team 5); HUT-100g(Team6); HUT-Adv Tribe(Sz2) (Team4, same island as Team6); Revolt-Halixarcassus(58g-5,War,noAna,Panama Canal); Capture Rouen(-5,noAna,makind Courthouse); HUT-50g;
AD 1120 Steel; S-Machine Tools; Revolt-Eretria(87-18,GR,noAna); HUT-100g; Revolt-herekleia(290-26,GR,5units,noAnarchy); Bribe-Egyptian Sett(178,NONE);
AD 1140 Machine Tools; S-Miniaturization; Revolt-Ergali(29-9,noAna); A02-Therm(Silver,500,D); HUT-Barbs(South Pole Dip.... Deat Meat); A00-A02(Beads,63,N,mistake); Gift Sioux ABF(Before=2066b, 6Techs, After=1888b); A02-Orleans(Salt,700,D); A02-Orleans(Salt,700,D)
AD 1160 Minit; S-Refining; CURE FOR CANCER (85 happy points); 3x A02-Grenoble(Hides,752,D); Capture-Tarsus(-26,GR); HUT-Barbs(South Pole, 2 Knights, Bribe 1 for 82g, N01); Revolt-Byzantium(53-5,noAna)
AD 1180*Refining; S-Combustion (Choices are Comb & Comm); Revolt-Hamadan(56-6,noA)Revolt-Troy(56-13,noA); RB 1st Offshore Platform (Bi1... the "right" shield multiples of 5-10-20); Killed Lrd; Bribe-Greek Sett(180g,NONE); Revolt-Ephesos(224-22,GR,Archer); 3x A02-Chartres(Gems,738,D); Score 925

AD 1200 Combustion; S-Automobile (Comm, Flt); 959; Bribe Persian Settler(180g,NONE); Capture Gordium(-38, ); Revolt-Samaria(58-6,noA); Saltx3x700; Beadsx2x712; 3x A02-Orleans(Salt,700,D)
AD 1220 Auto; S-Mobile Warfare; HUT-3 Barbs,South Pole (let them be); A02-Orleans(Wine,875,D); 2x A02-Lyons(Cu,712,D); Lyons(Beads,712,D);Only 9 squares left unexplored - This was last hut (I think); Making SHs.
AD 1240 A02-Orleans(Salt,1224,D); A02-Orleans(Wine,1493,D) *** NOTE THE INCREASE DUE TO SUPERHIGHWAYS IN A02... 1224 is CAPPED (SGC=90 arrows base)!! ***; Lyons(Cu,1248,D); Lyons(Beads,1248,D); BearPaw(hides,1224,D); Oops, just realized I did not get Espionage before Auto... Dips are Dips. Science cost=2240.
AD 1260* Communism; S-Espionage; 4x A02-Thermophyle(Silver,877,D); 1130; Revolt-Typre(162-27,Harb,War); KILLED-Persians; Lyons(Beads,1248,D);
AD 1280 Espionage; S-Geurilla; A02-Grenoble(Cu,1314,D); BearPaw(hides,612,D); 4xBearPaw(Wool,1214,D);

AD 1300 Geu; S-MassP; 1222; 6xA02-Elephantine(Hides,804,D); 3xA02-Orleans(Salt,1224,D); Revolt-Lugdunum(89,warrior); KILLED-Romans; Buying Improvements.
AD 1320 Mass Production; S-Computers; Pollution; 6x A02-Thermophyle(Silver,877,D); A02-Orleans(Salt,1266,D);
AD 1340* Computers; S-Robotics; Delivered a big load of freight, mostly salt to Orleans; Refused to talk to Egypt
AD 1360 Robotics; S-Fission; 1381; 2xA02-Orleans(Salt,1278,D); C04-Orleans(Salt,294,D,mistake); REVOLT-Thermphyle(582(dip)-63,GN,MK,2units,NoAnarchy); KILLED-Greeks; Chartre(Gems,432,N,Mistake-NoDmdNow); Revolt-Chartre(187-19,GR,NoAna,Warrior); 5 Cities left (3 French, 1 Egypt, 1 Sioux)
AD 1380 Fission; S-Nuclear Power; 1452/395; (73 Advances; 14 left; +220/+400); A04 has URANIUM now!; A02-2xOrleans(Salt,1278,D); 3xA02-Lyon(Beads,1278,D)

AD 1400 Nuclear Power; S-Laser; 1st Uranium (Capital); 1486; Orleans(Salt,1278,D); 3xA02-Lyon(Beads,1278,D)
AD 1420*Laser; S-Recycling ; 1533/398; 4xA02-Egypt(hides,804,D)
AD 1440 Recycling; S-labor union; 1593; 4xA02-Lyon(Beads,1278,D); Bribed French Settler(180g,NONE); 2xOrleans(Salt,1278,D)
AD 1460 Labor Union; S-Flight; 1659; Researching Flight-Prebuild Airports in almost all cities. Not freight Delivery-built Darwin, due on next turn. 124 cities.
AD 1480 DARWIN?S VOYAGE; Flight; Radio; S-Adv Flight; (Colossus nixed); 1737; Sell SGC sewer & IPRB Airport; Sci Cost=3159; gift Sioux ABF, new Sci Cost=2466 (17 techs); 2xOrleans(Wine,820,D); 2xOrleans(Salt,656,D) *** NOTE THE DROP IN SALT PRICE!!! ****; Orleans(Dye,656,D); making over 100 airports. (79 techs)

AD 1500* Adv Flt; S-Rocketry; 1793/415; 30 Airports; Almost 100 more coming. 7xA02-Elephantine (Hides,412,D); 2xOrleans(Wine,820,D);
AD 1510 Rocketry; S-Combined Arms (No Choice); 1833; 2xOrleans(Wine,820,D); Orleans(Salt,656,D); A02-Elephantine (Hides,412,D);
AD 1520 CA; S-Space Flight; 1885; 3xOrleans(Salt,656,D); 2xA02-Elephantine (Hides,412,D);
AD 1530 SF; S-Plastics; 1946; Orleans(Dye,656,D); 2xOrleans(Wine,820,D)
AD 1540* PL; S-Superconductor; Apollo; 2014; Gift Sioux ABF; 2xOrleans(Wine,820,D); Orleans(Salt,656,D); A02-C17(Dye,643,D)
AD 1550 SC; S-Env(NoChoice); 2064; A02-BearPaw(Wool,628,D); 3xA02-BearPaw(Dye,628,D); Elephantine (Hides,412,D); Reject Sioux Peace (50g, hehe).
AD 1560 Env; S-Fusion; 2137/428; A02-X01(Uranium,1792,D); A02-X04(Uranium,1728,D); A02-X04(Gems,1294,D); A02-X08(Spice,1116,D); A02-F00(Gems,1264,D); A02-F00(Gems,1264,D); A02-F00(Cu,843,D); X04-A02(Uranium,1728,D); 3xOrleans(Dye,648,D); Orleans(Salt,Dye,648,D); A02-L07(Gems,1200,D); A02-L03(Wine,1220,D)

AD 1570 Fusion; S-Stealth; 2196; SS READY; Launch SS; Bribe- Sioux Engineer(NONE,188g); A02-L09(Uranium,1536,D); ***** LAUNCH SS ***** (Arrive 1581)
AD 1571 Stealth; S-FT001; EIFFEL TOWER; 2278/434; Revolt-Elephantine(767-239,GR,MK,LB,BN,PH,Anarchy); KILLED-EGYPTIANS; Gift Sioux ABF; Refuse Peace; Demand Tribute-WAR; 143 cities; Ho4-A02(Uranium,1526,D)
AD 1572 FT001; S-FT002; 2xA02-F06(Wine,1010,D); A02-F11(Gold,611,D), and another
AD 1573 FT002; S-FT003; COPERNICUS; SETI; 2466; F08-A02(Ur,1766,D); A02-L03(Ur,1792,D)
AD 1574 FT003; S-FT004; ISAAC NEWTON COLLEGE; 2552; 312g; 294g; 288g; 158g; 320g; 276g; A02-C16(oil,1274,D); 450; 280; 220; 76; 3x89; 92; 68;
AD 1575 FT004; S-FT005; 2646; 65; 1461(oil); 436; 1321(oil); 756; 936(gold); 412; 442; 260; 322; Bribe French Settler (196g,NONE); 68g;
AD 1576 FT005; S-FT006; 2739; 928; 60; 1587(oil); 444; 400; 280;
AD 1577 FT006; S-FT007; 2830; Lyons(155-60,BK,GR,MK,Ana); Grenoble(97,Ana); Orleans(693-36,BK,GRnWar); KILLED-French; 872; 52; 446; 771; 1349 (oil); 276; 300; 3x204; Lots of tiny routes. Will have 5 wonders next turn.
AD 1578 FT007; S-FT008; ALL WONDERS NOW DONE; Only 1 Sioux City Left; 3036; 1766(Uranium); over a dozen small ones.
AD 1579 FT008; S-FT009; 3106; mostly capitalization. Ending settler tasks.
AD 1580 FT009; S-FT010; 3451 @ 80% Lux.

----------------------- AD 1580 ---------------------------

Pop: 75.16M (Fundy); Score 3451 (SS Lands next turn +400)
Tax: 80% (1179g/cost=153g)
Sci: 00% (012b, 293T) (ALL 88 + FT001-009; Advs cost about 3515b)
Lux: 80% (Some cities in WLTPriest Day)
Prod: 2138 MT (20T poll, 0 polluted tiles)
Cities: 168
Wonders: ALL 28.

ENEMY:
Sioux 1 Cities (Sioux have 87 advances, gifted ABF)

FORCES:
01 Settler (a NONE)
09 Engineers
01 Warrior
01 Phalanx
01 Musketeers
33 Fanatics
93 Riflemen
06 Fanatics
41 Cavalry
04 Artillery
25 Destroyers
43 Transports
17 Diplomats
212 Freight (1 in prod)
05 Explorers

SCORE
2821 Citizens (approx 15,810 max)
0560 Achievements (560 max)
0400 Spaceship (400 max)
0000 Peace (100 max)
0045 Future Technology (1275 max)
0025 Barbarians (set at start; -50, -25, 0, +25)
0000 Pollution (0 or negative; -10 per skull)

3851 Civ 2 Total Score (On the Turn of SS landing)

AD 1581 ********* SS LANDING **********

I'll make a couple screenies & post them later today when I get time :).