Historians Mound

Historians Mound is a somewhat exclusive society for Historians. Each turnchat would generate a chapter

There will be room for five historians in the Historians Mound, whose prime mission would be to write the history of our proud nation. The history would only become official when the four other Historians have unanimously approved the history of the main writer. There will be a historian to chronicle each turnchat, and place that history in the "Historians Mound Official Thread", with the years taking place, historical maps and major events for our nations, both in the land and in politics. .

Historian 1. Provolution, in-game "Provolion the Sage"
Historian 2. Oni of Chaos, in-game "Onion the Loremaster"
Historian 3. Shattered, in-game "Shatoculeez the Seeker"
Historian 4. Joe Harker
Historian 5. KWarriorpoet, in-game "Seidrik the Gray"

As soon as all five positions are taken, there will be no more Historians accepted into the Mound.

Memberships

Each Term, following the Faction elections, the Mound will organize a Historian election, where we officially poll the contributions from the last term to the entire people. The authors of the three best contributions may continue in the Mound for the next term, and two more authors may join by the unanimous approval of the three remaining historians for the next term. This cycle will repeat itself each term.

This is well outside the area where I would contribute, and I do not want to interfere, but think some comments are appropriate.

Good idea, though the exclusivity opens up some potential for problems. If there is an open slot and a candidate author, I think the mound should automatically accept the candidate, where the proposed structure requires approval by existing historians. The general principle of first come first in should also receive some consideration.

I'm also worried that having a limit may discourage the 6th and subsequent authors from writing at all. We'll get the most participation and most active role play if everyone is encouraged to write.

You are welcome to join. However, I do not want an anarchy, but to have each historian writing a full account about a turnset play. We may add roles for Historian 6 and so on, when we get that interest, and allocate them new historic roles beyond that of covering turnsets (Like writing a treaties on kings, or factions, or naval history and so on, there is plenty to be written, but I do not want double work here.

First out, we can start with five as a target number to cover the 5 turnsets as Designated Play Chronicle Writers, and then we can add in other topics for new historians if interested. The 5 roles are for the turnset writers. We need elections and appointments to assure that the people get the best Historians they can get, and we need a mechanism to refine history in the game.

But I write you up for the 2nd turnset, if you are ok with that.

Well, like I said (or tried to say) this is not the type of creative writing that I'm good at. Someone else would be a much better choice.

If you want to, (if you haven't already) take a look at the History Deparment in the Civ3 Demogames I, II and I think parts of III. There's a history thread in the main forum.

Thank you CT, good to have you back. I think we are to revisit the entire history concept, as Civ4 BTS is a brand new game, with a lot of new properties, as well as having a more RPG friendly ruleset with less ruleset controllers as soon as we let loose the Faction beast (my biggest fear here is yet another bland centric game, then nothing would have been achieved).

I read those forums before, and they did a decent job. However, with better maps, better visuals and other powered properties, we can really make a renaissance here (and yes, I am not Alphawolf, even though I may a bit rough on occasions).

Would the historians get various jobs, for example A would do maps, B would to turnchat logging, C would do major events, etc. . .

We need that too. :goodjob:

Up to the OP whether it should be combined here or separate.

It could be combined, I need to have five people aboard to see what kind of resource people we got, and not over-organize before that. At least for now, it will cover each Historian a turnset, as the core activity.

I'll join, we can discuss about who does what later. :D

You are written up, 3 to go.

I shall join as well.

You are in, Shattered, I await an in-game name from you.

We still need at least 2 more historians here, hopefully also more, since there may be several aspects of history to cover (creative writing about turnsets, roleplay and so on for each session, plus other activities).

I would be happy to help out! :)

You are welcome Joe Harker, we need a fun in-character name from you as well :)

I love creative writing, but throwing in maps and graphics...well, while the words may flow like a raging torrent to carry its audience down the racing rapids, I'm afraid that illustrations other than in text form may not be my strongest suit. I would personally prefer to focus on key events, discussions, things with Drama. I am not great at the book-keeping required for timelines, like one would expect to find in a GOTM, for example.

So, if you need a dramatic RP-style short story here and there, sign me up!

Kwarrior poet, you are in as the fifth historian :) please make an in-character name for him.

I would really love it if a Mod could change my login name to Seidrik_The_Gray, but until that happens, then please consider that my in-character name. I have made it my tailored title under my login ID. Is it possible to change your login ID? kwarriorpoet is something I created back in the Braveheart days...and much of my forum history appears to have vanished when I stopped lurking in these forums around 2002 or so. Anyway, I'm a lowly prince again, and would like to have my forum ID perma-changed if possible. Otherwise, I would consider just making a new profile. Was interested in keeping my forum history in tact though...Any suggestions?

Just ask Thunderfall to change your name.

hey Joe :)

We still need your "in-character Historian name"

Damn, i wanted to see you struggle with a name for me! ;)

Errm give me the night to think about it! :)

Damn, i wanted to see you struggle with a name for me! ;)

Errm give me the night to think about it! :)

Just make your best shot Joe, we have 4 out of 5 names now :)

I come here to humbly to ask to be your acolyte. To refill the ink wells, to make the parchment and learn from the great master historians of the realm.

I come here to humbly to ask to be your acolyte. To refill the ink wells, to make the parchment and learn from the great master historians of the realm.


You are more than welcome fellow Historian, what field of history would you like to cover ? :

The blastoid would like to begining to focusing on the exploration of new lands, the cultures of their people and the exotic animals and plants found there in.

Well, then, you are appointed as the Geographer of the Mound, for the great scriptures of our nation. Historical geographers also added animals and people with their travel maps, so that could be your angle.

Great! I always love to peruse historical atlases :)

Well, then, you are appointed as the Geographer of the Mound, for the great scriptures of our nation. Historical geographers also added animals and people with their travel maps, so that could be your angle.

Most imprtantly sea monsters at the ends of the oceans :cool:

And some dragons someplaces :eek:

Most imprtantly sea monsters at the ends of the oceans :cool:

And some dragons someplaces :eek:
Ah yes, lots of monsters are good!

My Sample History:
Once upon a time, a demogame was about to start. But then people decided to repoll everything, so cementing all the rules took longer. People would be debating, but because faction platforms take forever to perfect, that took longer too.

:D :D :D :D :D

Did any of you play D&D in the day? My response to Oni is to have a large black cloud materialise over his character and....muahahahahaha

Did any of you play D&D in the day? My response to Oni is to have a large black cloud materialise over his character and....muahahahahaha

Guns don't kill people, magic missiles kill people. :)

(I didn't play DnD, it is a Tshirt :D)

Guns don't kill people, magic missiles kill people. :)

(I didn't play DnD, it is a Tshirt :D)

Sweeeeet! Only one problem...my wife would never touch me again after I don said t-shirt, lol!

Did any of you play D&D in the day? My response to Oni is to have a large black cloud materialise over his character and....muahahahahaha

Why cast darkness on Oni, when you could Geas him instead? Or maybe even cast Implosion, though I daresay that would leave him but a pile of ash. :D
D20 can not be beaten, so no one even try! :crazyeye:

Geas

How is this pronounced? I have a geas on me on another game (unreleated to DnD) I don't want another one :mischief:

ummmm, gee (as in geek) us (as in.... us.) Its basicly like a semi-permanant spell that forces you to complete a task or quest. If you don't, you basicly wither away slowly lol.

ummmm, gee (as in geek) us (as in.... us.) Its basicly like a semi-permanant spell that forces you to complete a task or quest. If you don't, you basicly wither away slowly lol.

I know, see second sentence. My geas forbids me from advancing until I go kill/get (insert random thing) but I get nice rewards for it :crazyeye:

I still would like to ask for Joe Harkers in-character name, so both Tribal Council representatives has shown some basic roleplay interest , please :)

Part I of the Great Debate:

Proposed outline
1) Major players
2) How to handle the back and forth? Suggestions? Story form, focus on key particulars, which ones?
3) Should we tie in, the color notes from Bertie's blog (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6643994&postcount=14)?

On a personal note: I hope no one saw the debate as a personal attack on anyone, but just political commentary and conflict over ideologies and platforms. I deeply appologize for any statements that were offensive. I did not mean them to be that way, but I am sure I got wrapped up in the heat of the fray, and my statements are only my opinion and my thoughts over perceptions of behind the scenes machinations which may or may not have occured, but were not meant to be personal.

So, as a Historian here, I am proposing to have a collaborative account, written jointly by the historians here to cover the first election, which I humbly submit to be titled, simply: "The Great Debate." Now, I envision two parts, the first being longer than the second, and the first detailing the platforms, the characters involved, and some RP elements for color. The second would cover the aftermath, reflection on the debate, proposed changes to election mechanics, new rules possibly governing debates, and obviously who won.

Thoughts?

We bury the hatchet Kwarriorpoet, so we can go on and have fun with this game :)

I agree to the proposal for the proposed outline, and I think we need to cover the election all of us five initial historians. If only Joe Harker can come up with a singular name, so we can get the story straight. I suggest you present a draft here, the other four historians can look at :)

The First Prime Faction Election
Written and edited by the first council of Historians, 4000 BC:
Seidrik The Gray, (insert other names) or do we want authors as (Seidrik the Gray (kwarriorpoet) format?

Outline:

Ice2k4 announced the prime faction debate here.
Dutchfire agreed to mediate.
Dutchfire presented the rules for the debate.
The Platforms
Rashiminos presented the platform for The Clan of the Shadowed Hand Faction. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6551220&postcount=1) Tribal Council Faction presented its platform (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6631902&postcount=1).
The Triad was announced; a coallition of three factions, the Phylosophers of the Legion, the Protectors of Atlantis, and the Warlords. Their platform was presented here. (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6630856&postcount=1) The First Question
Italianajt asked the first question, one that perhaps mattered the most to all citizens, who had opted not to be affiliated yet with any faction...the independent voters.
If I may be so bold I wish to ask the first question:

I am not affiliated but that does not mean disenfranchised so as a legal citizen I still have my right to ask.

What are these factions going to do about those of us who wish not to join the "established" factions? What are our rights in this great land?
Seidrik the Gray(kwarriorpoet) answered the question for the Tribal Council (name)(Provolution) next answered the question for the Triad Faction:

I am unsure how to proceed from this point. There are two other questions that were officially asked, the rest is point and counter point and rebuttal. The key players appear to have been myself, Provo, DaveShack, Joe Harker, NZL, and Shattered, in no particular order, but to be honest, it was mostly Shattered, myself, provo, and Daveshack with additional points served by active members from all sides.

Anyway, should I continue quoting? I think I'd end up copying the thread, and we don't want to do that...should I do this in story form? What points should I focus on? One underlying theme that I see is that the Triad presented themselves as a unification of three key aspects of the game or society, thinkers, warriors, and prophets. The Triad's other key theme was that they would listen but control and distribute power amongs the three allied factions within their coallition. Tribal Council relied on a tribal structure of a Chief governing his people under the advice of a Council that served to represent the tribe's needs and also served as advisors or experts in certain areas, who were chosen by the people. Both sides claimed that their faction would put forth only the best individuals in each area, that their leader was ellected by their faction members, and that they realized that not listening to the citizens would lead to a rebellion. Both factions had proposals covering all aspects of game play and land-use and a reward structure.

In the end, I felt that both sides were excellent in arguing their points. I think discussing which side is or would have been more inclusive is counterproductive to this historical document, as it's something that we have no evidence to support yet. Same goes for which faction would have been more RP immersive.

There is also the issue of the arrival of Timus the Protector and his faction, which materialized...literally from nowhere...a refugee...a large refugee bent on revenge for the destruction of his clan at the hands of barbarian slavers.

Your thoughts?
- How to present the questions vs. the answers?
- How to present the rebuttals and points and counterpoints, the dramatic exchanges between the factions?
- Quotes? Excerpts? Links? Story form?
- I was going with a chronological presentation.

I think we need to frame this within the historical context, where we start in 4000 BC, observe the 4000 BC gamesave map and starting conditions, so the story got more legs to stand on. We should also make this a story about the three great leaders (Alexander, Huaya and Charlemagne (last as "Timus"), all renamed to our gameworld by the various factions), that rivaled for power. This in order to make a too strong focus on the metagame development, but how this could have occured within the gameworld.

Also, I think Mysticracy was the very first faction, renamed Atlantis later. Then came the Tribal Faction as the second faction, then Warlords and then Philosophers legion and finally the Shadowed Hand. Methos first seceded from Tribals when all positions were dealt out and he was left with nothing as well as that he wanted a change to the situation by bringing in Timus.

I think independent questions could be presented as outlying farms and villages wanting to influence their faith, but they rather grow the crops than to be involved in the civil war, a good way to abstract these in roleplaying matters.

I think we need to keep out the metagame core rule debates, as they do not really count for the game itself, as it was more a part of the Genesis. Storyform is largely preferred, as some ancient historians like Polybios and Homer wrote their histories, bible could be one inspiration as well, as it got to feel sort of ancient. We should also avoid links, or this history thread become a metagame reference guide, and that may only cause conflict later. How Bertie writes his blog, just more like a historian, could be a good way to go about it. It is the real human conflict that is interesting here, but for the sake of peace and respect for the roleplay attempt, we must transplant and adapt that to the gameworld. However, chronological based on posting gameworld related things, and written as ancient history would do the trick.

Timus is a great piece of the story, and could be added towards the end (as for example Timus was a tribal, but he grow more upset by his enslaved cousins and went on his own to fight those neighboring slaver nations).

The core conflict between tribals and the three other factions we can see like this:

The Tribal Council was lead by (Huayna "INSERT NEW NAME"), which wanted a nation of industry and commerce, and was mostly dominated by the farmers and the gatherers of the early tribe, those that wanted to work the lands, count the beans of last harvest and so on. I did not get a real impression of what culture tribals promoted, but I see a sort of casual atmosphere around the village center fireplace where various family leaders, clan leaders and so on could come to Chief Daveshack and let his Salomonic wisdom, fairness and sole power handle disputes and conflicting interests between citizens, where they sometimes even raised their hands for certain major decisions, the earliest form of consensus democracy, in a very primitive fashion. This orientation, combined with chosen traits (industry and finance), suggests a more peaceful culture of farmers, miners, craftsmen, gatherers and travelling merchants, those seeking mostly worldly ways, stability and prosperity, not so much glorious conquest, adventure and honor and not so much the thirst for new knowledge and loyalty to the higher gods.

In a sense, I feel Tribal Council is more like Ancient Athens, where Triad is more the alliance of Sparta (Warlords), Theben (Philosophers) and Mysticracy (Delphi).

The Triad came about as Shattered "the Unifier" brought together the Philosophers Legion, an elitist, militaristic, yet academic version of Sparta with the Warlords Faction and Mysticracy, later renamed Atlantis (up for rename again I heard). Thus, the Triad became the core national character, militarily aggressive and the journey to distant lands to seek knowledge, spread knowledge and to destroy knowledge inferior or antagonistic to our people. This is where an almost Wahabist feature came into being, with the pact with "Mysticracy", that would be the religious clan (part of the people, decentralized) responsible for maintaining the Church of Giruvegan, leading monastic orders, spreading religion to all cities and abroad, and making sure our borders were strong and the people behind our side of the borders dedicated to our cause. "Warlords" was more of a warrior people, a group of reckless and violent nomads converted to the belief of Giruvegan and sent out into foreign lands to expand the nation by exploration, conquest and occupation. This system, with the "Aggressive Philosophy" at the core, sustained by a worldly barbaric warrior clan and a fanatical cult of polytheists and paganists (we are civfanatics after all). Each of these, with the brutal, despotic, yet philosophical capital in the core, a major religious city and a major city of soldiers, became the three cornerstones of our civilization.


Quotes and Excerpts could be freely interpreted/translated to fit the era we live in.

I see what you're saying, and I agree with presenting in story form. I'm familiar with Homer's Iliad and the Bible. I am also encouraged by your examples for working with the factions, and your fair interpretation of the Tribal Council, and some of your other ideas.

One point of Clarification on Methos/Timus. He left because he wanted to do something on his own, explore a fun RP concept that was more closely tied to despotism. However, what you say is a good core for that part of the story.

Very well...let me think on it for a span, Historian Provolion.

The first ellection, the call for a chief of chiefs.

The people, as they now called themselves, first came together many years ago from different areas and different clans. Now, they were brought together at the dawn of our civilization. Powerful personalities had risen from among the people. Under the weight of providence and the inertia of change, they had gathered in the large clearing around the great ancient cairn, simply called "The Rock." It was a place to settle disputes, a place to speak one's mind to those who would listen.

Hundreds had gathered. It was a sight to behold, especially considering the few who had first been named the people. Out of this few had grown many, and more came in, seaking refuge from the savagery of the wilds outside of the clearing. Now there were many tents strewn about the clearing centered on "the Rock"; a public place that was always crowded with happy people drinking away their concerns or talking about the strange things they had seen or heard. Recent votes and decisions were a key topic, but so was the mud pit in the middle of the room, and reports of recent bouts. Far away from the center of the clearing was a large tent with wafts of smoke billowing out of the flaps, where the people prayed to the gods and other mystical figures for rescue from the savagery of their world, some following the practices of the Church of Giruvegan, others simply praying and hoping. Many of the other tents were simple dwellings, not much more than shelter from the weather. A few were larger and were where the guilds and factions met to discuss things and discuss the other factions and guilds.

Today, the People stopped everything, they had finally agreed that they needed a leader, a faction to govern their lives and lead them into the future.

First to speak was a large man in dear skin and bear hide with a club at his side, named DaveShack. He spoke of a strength from within of building the people up and ensuring their survival through great works and commerce. He spoke of how his people had always had success through a chosen chief, supported by a chosen council to represent the village and support the Chief through their knowledge and skills. A great number of people were swayed by his moving speach and the promise of great works and a strength of stone. They formed the Tribal Council Faction.

Next to speak was a proud Chieftain, named AluminumKnight, who spoke of unifying the people through the Mystical practices of shamans, especially those of the Church of Giruvegan. He spoke of a strong religious rule, where only faithful worship and religious strength through the gods would preserve the people. Several were moved by an inner calling to show favor to the gods to receive their blessing and protection. They formed the Mysticracy Faction.

Then came Provolution, a young man in with rough leather hides in the form of protective clothing, and a cudgel on his belt. He prowdly issued a call to strength. Provolution spoke of the vast evils and the savages that ruled the lands outside of their villages. He called for military might, and a military ruler, who would direct the people, and create a fighting force of the people to repel the dangers from the outside world. Several were swayed through their own personal experience of the evils outside and by a desire for stronger protections. They formed the Warlord Faction.

Next came Rashiminos, garbed in soft charcoal stained dearskin and charcoal on his face and hands, who spoke of the intrigue between the other leaders, and how he felt that he was best capable of controlling them all for the betterment of the People.

Finally strode in a weathered man with a sincere look on his face, his clothing was more suited to thinking on matters and he was known to be one who enjoyed planning things and helping others with plans, but he was not a man of war, nor was he overly religious, thinking that mystical practices were not supported by his practical teachings. Instead, he spoke of learning about the outside world. He spoke of leading the people through knowledge. Many heard him, and joined the Faction of the Phylosopher's Legion.

In this early time, people wanted strength, they wanted stability, they needed direction. The Tribal Council and the Phylopher's factions began to amass power and influence among the people. The people were busy with the need to prepare the year's harvest and with other projects that their households needed to complete. They were not interested in being a part of something as much as they were interested in being lead.

Alliances began to form around the Church of Giruvegan at first, and then the factions tied to the Church began to see their goals come into alignment through their common association. A militant and organized man, named NZL rose to power as the new chief of the Warlord faction and moved with precision to strike a deal brokered by the Church and the Phylosopher's faction, under the Zodiark Strider, and the Chief Shattered. Strider was also now the Chief of the Mysticracy Faction. From this union arose the Triad Coalition, an alliance whose strength far surpassed the Tribal Council, which had remained unassociated with the Church.

Now, the people had two choices, either the Triad Coalition, under Shattered or the Tribal Council, under DaveShack. A great debate was held, where tribe members were asked to review the ellection platforms and pose questions to the rivals seaking to lead the tibe. Prominent members from each faction spoke and presented their arguments to the tribe. Louder and louder rose the shouts to support the Triad Coalition, but the Tribal Faction held firm, as resolute as their leader. The people cried out for a vote, to make the decision once and for all.

Into that chaos, strode a large man, the largest man among the people. Timus the Protector was an outsider among people who hadn't known each other for more than the past several months. He had been a member of the Tribal Council, but had recently left. He bellowed out a call for the People to fall in behind him and let him guard them alone in his powerful hands. For some, he was their gods' answer.

Out of the dust and conflict, out of this clash of titans, the Triad Coalition rose victorious and was proclaimed the first Prime Faction of the People.

I'll write my contribution this weekend when I have the time and energy for creative thinking :D

I will write my first chapter this weekend, after the city has been settled as Provolion the Sage.

The Blastoid is joining the Warband to scout and map new lands.
He will return in time with maps and accounts of his journey

It would be fun if you could draw us a map based on ancient mapmaking techniques, sort of artistic recreation.

That is my intent. I am not sure what early style to use yet, Maybe something like the cave paintings in france. I went to see them a few years back and they were unforgetable.

yes, 4000 BC is stone age. This would be our stone age maps. Later on we make classical style Ptolemy maps.

Make the map out of stone. :D

I will edit together all contributions into a coherent tale, leading up from the early power struggle between the factions to the discovery of animal husbandry and the Babylonians by the Prochon Warband, as well as the beginning of fishing in Arete.

Babylonians*

thanks, corrected :)