So I've always fantastized about a society where Currency was never invented and economics was basically on a barter system. So is this possible in Civ4?

Challenge:

Win the game on Deity without ever acquiring Currency.

The largest issue to be solved is that Currency is eventually necessary for Replaceable Parts and Rifling. So the long term handicap is no Rifling. What are the lategame defensive options without Rifling?

The second issue is that there is no gold trading without currency, but I think you can trade gold as long as your trade partner has currency.

Oh yeah, you lose out on a couple of Economic civics as well, but interesting enough, you can get State Property. Which is just about the only Economic civic I ever switch to anyway...

So, ideas about which civs/ leaders/ strategies for this?

Cheers,

Dai

Bartering is a kind (backward) currency in itself, although not standardized. I don't know what you have against coins really. Would you rather carry your purse to the shopping centre or a car full of furniture? (or something equally bulky)

replacebale parts is necessary for basicly all the late techs.

This means you will stop teching at some point.

Your challenge doesnt work.

I think Molson is correct. You would have to limit the game to an AP diplo win or culture which would be an interesting challenge.

The AI will certainly get Currency so you'll be able to trade gold then.

i won a succession game with no BW by domination, so i guess this could be possible: i would recommend the byzantines i guess.

This sounds insane. Not only the issues you mentioned above, but you also lose one early trade route per city - plus no markets, no grocers, no banks...

I reckon you can do it - play duel map and look around for some metals, fast!

A civilization without currency cannot build a specialized economy nor support a growing empire.

Hmmmm. Elimination of Currency eliminates...

Banking, Economics, Corporation, Replaceable Parts (!!), Rifling (!!!), and thus most Modern Era units. This means you'll have to win by Knights to get anything done. Apostolic Palace/Culture Victory seem the best, and thus I suggest the Byzantines or Ethopians, since the Oromo Warrior with Pinch is pretty good.

Focus on the religions to get shrine income otherwise you are in for some very big problems. Culture seems the best way to go then.

Would Spain be an attractive alternative? Conquistadors and never-obsoleting Citadels sound like an impressive military boost and the starting techs allow an early religion without much fuss. The traits feel a little anaemic though.

I guess spamming maceman, might(!!) get you somehwere.It would be an interesting experiment to see how well a backwards civ with numbers fairs against smaller technolgically superior opponants.

It is definitely an odd challenge, but perhaps it is doable. I have not tried it myself, but I remember reading the Cho-ko-nu come out favorably hammer per hammer even against modern units. It may give the longest window of opportunity to win the game.

Perhaps Qin would be a good choice. I would probably go after the Oracle and grab either Metal Casting or CoL. Taking CoL will give you Courthouses to make expansion more feasible without the extra trade routes. It also gets you on the Civil Service path the only way you can reach it if you skip Currency.

If I grabbed Metal Casting, I'd probably beeline for Machinery (if I could do so without putting myself at risk). Then, I'd start cranking Choks and probably move into a constant war state. Of course, I'd probably botch this strategy up horribly in implementation, but I think on paper it sounds doable.

Okay some more thoughts on this before I actually take the plunge...

1) Will try a large Big/Small map with 10 other civs on Deity, all other options being the standard options, except turning on No Tech Trading (my personal preference).

2) Yeah, the most likely victory looks like culture, since its achievable before you really hit the wall in the modern era. No Corporation/ Replaceable Parts ends up meaning no Assembly Line, Industrialization, Railroad, Steam Power, etc... I think... Of course Space Race is impossible, but an early/ mid- game domination might be possible. Or not, since this is Diety.

3) In the industrial/ modern era, Astronomy - Physics - Electricity - Radio - Mass Media are all okay so that line is fine. Also Chemistry - Steel is fine too.

4) Our lategame defense is likely to center around lots and lots of Airships.

The likely Leaders at this point:

A) Pericles- a Culture victory powerhouse, the only thing bad about the Greeks is the terrible starting techs

B) Justinian- He's one of the best leaders in the game, especially on Deity, you get all his civ specials, and he can get the early religion- not bad since our path to Code of Laws has to go through Priesthood. Hippodrome is dandy when you are going for culture victory and the UU comes just as when your technology is peaking.

C) Louis- I'm a huge Industrious nut, and I like Louis in culture too with the free artist from Salon. Hey we get Musketeers too, to make up for no Rifling. Not that the extra move is going to mean much... France's starting techs is a nice beeline for early Writing for libraries.

D) Gilgamesh- You're going through Priesthood anyways for Ziggurat and then... VULTURE VULTURE VULTURE, so he's the best for domination at this point. His Protective is a big waste though if we aren't ever going to get Riflemen.

E) Isabella- I like the points that are brought up about Castles/ Conquistadors. Unfortunately she seems a poor choice compared to Justinian because Expansive is somewhat terrible (sorry), and Hippodrome flat out rocks.

F) Zara- Not too much experience with him. Of course Oromos are way better than Musketeers, Stele is going to be helpful for Cultural victory. He starts mining so you have to love that.

Cheers,

Dai

I think at diety with 10 AIs, getting an early religion is sort of out.

I like Pericles the best, with a very stronge emphasis on diplomacy. The starting are actually pretty good, seafood right off the bat, and fast defense at Diety with immediate archery. The UB is a colesium that get's you +3 culture, extra happiness, and allows you to run 2 more artists. Just get teh Odeans built as early as possible so they double in culture in 1000 years.

Isabella will require war to use effectively. Not a good idea.

Zara is a monster with the UB, especially if you go culture slider early and ignore Astronomy. All the first strike Orome's won't help against cavalry and rifles though.

Best of luck.

OK techs eliminated
Currency
Banking
Replacable Parts
Rifling
Steam Power
Railroad
Combustion
Assembly Line
Industrialization
Artillery
Flight
Rocketry* (Space Race is out)

and more... easiest to think of the highest techs you Can get

Steel
Military Tradition
Military Science
Medicine
Refrigeration
Superconductors
Mass Media
Communism
Democracy

Best Military units
Currasiers
Grenadiers [Musketeers, pikemen, macemen all available]
Cannons
Frigates/Ships of the Line
Galleons
Caravels
Airships (thanks madscientist :) )

Civics you can't get
Free Market, Mercantilism
Police State* unless Pyramids

buildings you can't get
Money multipliers (and the happiness/health from Markets, Grocers, Supermarkets)
Production boosters (besides Forges and +50% for Ironworks)
Levees

Improvements you miss out on
Railroad
hammer boost to "Mills"

You miss out on corporations (although you could Capture a corporation city/HQ and stay in Decentralization or Environmentalism... I'm not sure if you could spread it.)

You can at least get an airforce with airships at Physics.

Winning Deity without Currency? You, my good man, is insane :D :gripe: