I have tried quit playing the game, but I guess I just had a relapse. ;) I played a few Prince games, after an easy Space Race win (the AI didn´t have all required techs to build the all parts before I lunched), I decided to start a Monarch game. I played a few, but my civ was growing too slow. I now the first rounds are the most important ones. I would appreciate any comments.

Settings:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/settings.jpg

Start Point:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/startingpoint.jpg

I started building a Workboat, I finished it in 10 turns. London was still pop 1 but I have stored some food. Next I built a worker, because I knew the city would grow fast and I would have to work unproved tiles.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/secondbuild.jpg

More 10 turns and the worker poped out. The I growed the city to size 2 while building a warrior.

Now it´s my city. I have a new warrior and one more turn to size 3.
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/London2920BC.jpg

Techs:
My first warrior had luck at the beginning, I got two free techs: Agriculture and Sailing. I researched AH e BW. Now I´m researching The Wheel.

The warrior died bravely killing two barbs before being defeated.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/bravewarriordies.jpg

Map:
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/mapageral.jpg

What would you do know?

Let London grow to 4 or 5. Work the cows, hills and seafood resources and build a couple of warriors in the meantime. When it hits size 5 you can build two settlers followed by another worker. Let your new warriors explore the fog to the east around the copper and south along the shore.

If theres seafood resources, you can always build the workboat in London while the new city builds a monument (that a worker can speed up by chopping a forest).

Expand! Get three cities up and see if you can grab the Oracle and slingshot yourself to Code of Laws. That's what I'd <try>.

As to why you want Code of Laws - caste system. Once you have that, you can run any amount of scientists and with monarchy, you can easily focus on getting a few food cities and run 2-5 specialists in a couple of cities. You can get a great merchant to pop metal casting, you can pop scientists for academies and lightbulbing techs like philosophy and education and you can run artists to pop cultural borders. I <love> caste system as it means you don't have to waste hammers in new cities on monuments unless they're bordering other AI cities.

I don´t remember the last time I tried a Code of Laws slingshot, but I think I can give a try.

First, I think it´s better:

build a Workboat to work the seafood resource (5 turns)
switch to slavery - I will not loose the extra :food: because the workboat will take 1-2 turns to get to the clam.
start a settler - London must be size 4 already - whip soon as possible (more or less 5 turns for a settler)
build a warrior - wait London grow to size 3


My only warrior stay close London just searching around the copper the best location for the second city.

The second city starts another warrior.

Research: wheel - mysticism - meditation - priesthood

With wheel I delay priesthood a little but I can build Axemen and train them fighting against the barbs.

What do you think about this plan?

Sure but you have to explore a little more as you want to build 4 cities .. and you haven't encountered any AI's as of yet. That's why I advised to build warriors until London was size 5 (it's happy cap, right?). Then you could churn out settlers with the help of a worker who's chopping forests.

I dislike using slavery for settlers in the beginning as your capital is your main source of .. well everything. Decreasing it's population and happy cap means you'll research slower but .. that's me :) I know others happily crack the whip.

Thanks for your reply.

I think I need the workboat, because of the sea resource.

Well, I seldom crack the whip for settlers but in this case the research speed will not be much affected because there are only two tiles that gives lot of food and commerce, I was not planning to work other water tiles but increase my capital hammers. If I work only the two sea resources, I will have the same commerce with 2, 4 or 5.The city grows back quickly 3-4 turns/pop. Early cottages might change that. I don't know if I should get Pottery ASAP.

If I get COL and found a religion, my happy cap will be 7 (with a temple). I will hire two scientists, work two cottages, two water tiles and the cow. I will still have food surplus.

I was planning to save the trees for The Oracle.

I would say forget about the oracle. Grow your capital to max happy working the best available tiles. Then use the capital as a worker/settler pump and expand like crazy. Use financial cottages and philosophical specialists to avoid economic collapse. Then go to war when the land runs out and continue expanding.

I liked the advice from futurehermit because it sounds aggressive, and I have a feeling that I have trouble in Monarch because I'm not aggressive enough. In this case I guess the research should be wheel and potery. And I'm going to build the workboat, than warriors until London get to size 5.

I loved all posts. I'll play another round tomorrow night and post here.

We haven't seen any other AI's yet and say if the guy next doors is Sitting Bull, you're . .. .. .. . out of luck until you get catapults :)

I don't know. I like using hereditary rule, bureaucracy and caste system with Elizabeth as it allows me to let me cities grow big and thus turning into them cottage and specialist farms. Also running cities who can work lots of mines is good. Additional side effect is that all the units you use to garrison your cities with keep your enemies at bay.

I rarely have to play an aggressive game as Elizabeth and can manage to get a big tech advantage and then kill them off with redcoats on monarch.

We do have some consensus here: grow London to size 5 building the workboat and warriors, then build at least 2 other settlers and one worker. I'm certainly not isolated because this is a Pangaea map. I'll get The Wheel and Pottery, then I'll post again and decide. It's just hurts not being able to build those cottages. I will play later, at home.

whyever would you not build a workboat first with that start? :(

I'd prefer opening up the map (particularly to the south) more before making a longer-term plan. The proximity of your closest neighbour, the aggressiveness of this neighbour, and the availability of resources can all make a big difference.

I'd prefer opening up the map (particularly to the south) more before making a longer-term plan. The proximity of your closest neighbour, the aggressiveness of this neighbour, and the availability of resources can all make a big difference.

Agreed! :) and why do I feel like I'm one of those guys from civ2 giving Anita advise? :rolleyes:

Oh, I hate to do this, but I think consensus is wrong.

Look at the tiles that are already improved, only two. Growing beyond those is sub-optimal from the point of view of building settlers.

Clearly more exploration is required. But I'd key growth to tile improvements. Better to focus on settler building in alternation with growth at a pace set by the rate of improvment in the land.

Of course get to the happy cap soon. But don't race for it if there's nothing interesting to work. If vertical growth isn't useful try horizontal instead.

-abs

Oh, I hate to do this, but I think consensus is wrong.

Look at the tiles that are already improved, only two. Growing beyond those is sub-optimal from the point of view of building settlers.

Clearly more exploration is required. But I'd key growth to tile improvements. Better to focus on settler building in alternation with growth at a pace set by the rate of improvment in the land.

Of course get to the happy cap soon. But don't race for it if there's nothing interesting to work. If vertical growth isn't useful try horizontal instead.

-abs

Cow, fish, clam, mine and another mine? Putting out warriors first to explore and play fogbuster is a good idea. Once London is 5 it can easily churn out settlers and workers with those 5 tiles being worked :)

Look at the tiles that are already improved, only two. Growing beyond those is sub-optimal from the point of view of building settlers.
-abs

:agree: My worker was working hard but cannot improve tiles as fast as London grows, so I whipped the workboat. I switched to slavery.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/2-Workboatwhip.jpg

It´s really fast to grow, I don´t even have granary.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/2-Growingback.jpg

I explored a little more:


http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/2-map.jpg

This is the south in detail:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/2-south.jpg

This is the city:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/2-london2480.jpg

The tech tree:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/2-techtree.jpg

I have now: 3 warriors, 1 worker and 2 workboats on place. My worker is building a cottage.

Before I build another settler, I think it should grow to size 5 building a warrior. It will make sense by then.

Mines and farms do not speed much settler/worker production, see math below:

With 5 pop (numbers in bold hammers+surplus food - without overflow):

16/turn - settler 7 turns - worker 4 turns
14/turn - (I leave the mine or bananas and work one river cottage) - settler 8 turns - worker 5 turns
12/turn - (work two river cottages) - settler 9 turns - worker 5 turns
6 turns working both cottages and 2 turns working one cottage - settler 8 turns


I would take option 3 or 4. I mean, I would slow down only a bit the settler production but the research would increase a lot.

That´s it. No AI showed up until now.

I have done some dot maps. I put together three screenshots, because I wanted to have a more detailed global view, but the pieces didn't fit perfectly. Because of that the map looks a little strange at certain points.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/dotmap.jpg

I think I'll settle first on spot 2. What do you think about that? The culture of London will help with the copper, it will take just 13 turns to its borders to expand:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u275/lalgarve/Liz%20Monarch%2003-2008/3-culture.jpg