In a recent game, I noticed this:

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u128/OTAKUjbski/AIcanseealuminum.jpg

I'm the only civ in the game with Industrialism -- which reveals Aluminum. I can further confirm Justinian doesn't have Industrialism, because I can see he's still 7 turns from researching it.

So why does he have a Fort on that hill with the Aluminum?

Every other Fort in his territory is built on top of an out-of-reach resource, so I know he wasn't randomly building Forts on his borders.

Does the AI somehow know something it shouldn't, or is there a more reasonable explanation within the bounds of the game's rules?

I've heard people say the AI doesn't know where resources are ahead of time, but i'm convinced that isn't true. I've seen them put mines on grassland squares before they discover ironworking.

Erm, but you never ever can plant a mine on a Grassland square. In fact, AI probably just had a wiser Civ than yours, which discovered Iron Working already (and you didn't) and mined the Iron square. When it does, you don't see the resource - just a weird mine on a flatland.

And the aluminum... Maybe a special event? :rolleyes:

Erm, but you never ever can plant a mine on a Grassland square. In fact, AI probably just had a wiser Civ than yours, which discovered Iron Working already (and you didn't) and mined the Iron square. When it does, you don't see the resource - just a weird mine on a flatland.

And the aluminum... Maybe a special event? :rolleyes:

I said they hadn't discovered iron working. It's easy to tell what techs a civ does and doesn't know.

Before Alphabet (which IW might well be) it's not all that easy to tell what tech they do and do not have. And - at least for human player - it is impossible to build a mine on a grassland without knowing that a Metal deposit is there, because the worker job to build a mine just does not exist on a normal grassland square.

Personally i have never seen the AI improving a ressource without the needed tech. The op screenshot is the closest thing so far, but the fort might be a coincidence - its a hill in proximity to a boarder, so it might have been built there for defensive purpose...

well in this particular case i had alphabet, and neither of us had ironworking. i saw a mine on a grassland and at first i thought it was a graphical bug. sometimes hills will look like plains until you reload a save. but once i learned ironworking i saw that there was iron under the mine, and at that time i could have traded ironworking to him.

I agree with Refar, looks like a border-protection-fort vs China, which is kinda strange as the chinese are Justinians Buddhist buddies (and we know how he likes his religious buddies). Has he been forced into war vs china or has been earlier?

PS how do you notice things like this at 2AM? I certainly wouldn't :p.

Personally i have never seen the AI improving a ressource without the needed tech. The op screenshot is the closest thing so far, but the fort might be a coincidence - its a hill in proximity to a boarder, so it might have been built there for defensive purpose...

As mystyfly points out -- Mao and Justinian were Buddhist buddies. It was Cyrus to his West he should've been worried about.

I agree with Refar, looks like a border-protection-fort vs China, which is kinda strange as the chinese are Justinians Buddhist buddies (and we know how he likes his religious buddies). Has he been forced into war vs china or has been earlier?

Justinian was buddies with me and Mao the whole game.

Only I went to war with China that game. In fact, I'm not sure if Justinian ever went to war with anybody the whole game!

I stole Workers from China twice very early on, so China never liked me. I let my power slip and was able to entice China into war (they had great land I wanted to use as a springboard into Khmer territory).


I've seen the AI build defensive Forts along their borders before, but that one felt way too coincidental to be coincidence.

In my last game, I had a random event which revealed me the positions of all oil patch on the map, in the BCs. perhaps the same kind of event for aluminium?

BalbanesBuelve - maybe he stole the mine culturally? Or got a bug with industrious workers event... ;)

well in this particular case i had alphabet, and neither of us had ironworking. i saw a mine on a grassland and at first i thought it was a graphical bug. sometimes hills will look like plains until you reload a save. but once i learned ironworking i saw that there was iron under the mine, and at that time i could have traded ironworking to him.

I believe you saw this but I think there has to be another explaination. Was the city conquered from another AI or barbarian?

Regarding the OP with the hilled fort, That is veyr weird. My opinion is that AIs do not build too many defensive forts.

Can you post the save?

Can you post the save?

Unfortunately, no. I've already finished that map and moved on. All I have is the 1 Turn to Victory save in 1900.

I did look at the save, and it's clear Justinian doesn't know the location of the Aluminum in the OP screenshot, because in the post-Industrialism save, the tile yield is 3 :hammers: instead of 2 as in the OP screenshot.

Also: in the screenshot save, there were no 'defensive' Forts in Justinian's territory. By the 1900 save, there were a couple (not to mention the great deal many in other territories), so maybe this was just a case of a busy working getting lucky.

...but once i learned ironworking i saw that there was iron under the mine

I guess my theory that maybe the AI had already discovered Physics and it was actually a uranium mine is right out the window then.

well in this particular case i had alphabet, and neither of us had ironworking. i saw a mine on a grassland and at first i thought it was a graphical bug. sometimes hills will look like plains until you reload a save. but once i learned ironworking i saw that there was iron under the mine, and at that time i could have traded ironworking to him.

BalbanesBuelve - maybe he stole the mine culturally? Or got a bug with industrious workers event... ;)

:agree:

@OTAKUjbski: Could culturestealing be the issue? Does China have Industrialism?

I've seen the AI build a fort on a tile with no resource before. I saw washington building a fort on a desert tile near my borders, I thought, "I guess there's oil there then", but there wasn't so maybe it's a coincidence.

Perhaps it is a good plan to buiild forts on all hills without forests in your cultural borders but outside of city BFC's, just in case, when your workers aren't busy? Picking up tips from the AI, what is the world coming to? ;)

I've seen the AI build defensive Forts along their borders before

Well, hey now.

that one felt way too coincidental to be coincidence.

IF YOU DON'T SEE THE FNORD IT CAN'T EAT YOU, DON'T SEE THE FNORD, DON'T SEE THE FNORD

@OTAKUjbski: Could culturestealing be the issue? Does China have Industrialism?

I was the only one with Industrialism.

I wish I had turned No Tech Brokering on that game. China and Khmer were both my vassals but were Pleased/Friendly with my closest rival, Justinian. I kept them at tech parity with Justinian to prevent them from trading away all my secrets, but I really wish I could've gifted them all my research to bring them up to speed ... I left them with some pretty decent land, after all. (but I digress)

I've seen the AI build a fort on a tile with no resource before. I saw washington building a fort on a desert tile near my borders, I thought, "I guess there's oil there then", but there wasn't so maybe it's a coincidence.

The more I think about it, the more it probably was just coincidence.

But it still makes me wonder. I'll be on the lookout in future games for this sort of behaviour now.

Well, hey now.

IF YOU DON'T SEE THE FNORD IT CAN'T EAT YOU, DON'T SEE THE FNORD, DON'T SEE THE FNORD

lawlz :lol: