You are on one island, the enemy on another, and you want to land and beat the sh*t out of him?

Here's how you do it:

Ancient age:

Build as many Galley as he has cities (roughly), at least 4. Fill them with the best defenders you have + 1 Settler + 1 attacker (Horseman or other fast unit is best). If you have more room, bring more fast units, but do bring at least 6 defenders!!!!! It is surprising how many units the AI will throw at a beachhead!

Choose a site with a hill, preferably with a river on it's inland side. If it has iron, the better :D. Land your troops there. The AI will ask you to leav or else, declare war.

Next turn, build a city on the hill. Check how far the cultural boundaries extend. Use the fast units to 'P'-illage all tiles where the enemy territory touches the city. That way, enemy slow units will need a turn to move into attack possition and another to attck - you can counterattck with fast units and reach the safety of the city again in the same turn (unless it's hilly).

The enemy will throw lots of troops at you, rushbuild Walls, then Barracks (if you can). Reinforce with a few more defenders to replace killed ones, otherwise bring attackers. Pile them high, then go for the nearest cities. You may want to raze them, it makes the enemy more ready to talk peace :D. Also, they are prone to flip, and you should wait until you have sufficinet forces to overwhelm the entire island because of this.

Middle ages:

Do as above, but bring a few bombard units. Also, make sure that you have the money to rush Walls and Barracks. Choose the site carefully, remember that if a tile is very close you can bombard it and thus deny the enemy to resource on it - saltpeter if you are lucky :D

Industrial times

Best time is just after nationalism. Bring loads of Riflemen and Cannons :D Once Factories are in wide use, the enemy will have many more troops to thorw at you, so keep him from getting there!
Also remember: Riflemen are used as attackers by the AI. Do not rely on a few defenders; the AI is willing to llose 50 Riflemen to kill a beachhead!!!!

From now on, the enemy Navy can be a problem. Bring a few veteran ships along that are empty, run 1 tile before the landing fleet, and can take the counterattck. be prepared to loose them!

Modern Times:

Wait until Mech Inf. is around. That will make the enemy troops unable to retreat - a big bonus. Instead of Barrakcs adn Walls, rush an airport, then reinforce by air. Bring in fighters as fast as possible, the enemy will try to bombard to airport away! With 5 or 6 fighters, you can kill quite a surprising number of Bombers. Also, bring Cavalry. they are outdated, sure, but troops in the open can be severly damaged by them, and they act as fine speed bumbs for the enemy. Also, pillage far and wide so Artillery/Radar Artillery can't reach you fast.

The Navy problem gets a lot worse here, especially because a Transport carries 8 troops :( Use a Carrier group (2 Carriers, three Bombers 1 Fighter each, 2 Cruisers, 1 Battleship, 2 Submabrines) to screen the Expeditionary Force. Bombard enemy ships, then let them run. They will run instead of attacking, so better safe your ships for more defenders.

WARNING!!!!! I have seen the enemy throw 100 troops at a beachhead!!!!!!! Bring sufficient force!!!!!! See the DS2 thread in Succession games, they lost 94 of them! :D

Be ready to cahnge plans any time! A blocked landing site, a weakly defended city, unexpected enemy navy strength -anything can happen!!!!

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scrennshots with explainations will follow soon

Maritime invasion is easy. If u have control of ur continent (there's no point in attacking another continent if u don't have control of urs), build up 15 transports and galleons or more, stack them full with ur fastest and best unit (tank or cavs) and land. Then blitz.

There's no point on the other person's continent since it allows the AI to build lots of units. The idea is to crush the AI before they get any units.

Originally posted by MirandaCore
Maritime invasion is easy. If u have control of ur continent (there's no point in attacking another continent if u don't have control of urs), build up 15 transports and galleons or more, stack them full with ur fastest and best unit (tank or cavs) and land. Then blitz.

There's no point on the other person's continent since it allows the AI to build lots of units. The idea is to crush the AI before they get any units.

Check the DS2 thread in the Succession games forum. France threw 100 Mech Inf and Cavalry at us!!!! If I hadn't built a city, we'd have suffered heavy losses. Also, you need many units - can you afford them early in the game???? it's a matter of money, too. And once you have a beachhead, you dictete terms. So this methods also works if you are a small island state and the other guy a huge empire!

One other small point, when landing a beachead.. i always send 1 or 2 transports out to another area to draw as many counter attackers as possible away from the main invasion site. This way your attack force may be saved some damage.

Originally posted by D9phoenix
One other small point, when landing a beachead.. i always send 1 or 2 transports out to another area to draw as many counter attackers as possible away from the main invasion site. This way your attack force may be saved some damage.
I disagree. I think it's best if we concentrate our force in one beachead so that they can support each other better and heal faster. Without railroad, there won't be much resistance during the first turn of landing anyway; therefore, we have plenty of time to fortify our defenses. Once the defenses are in place, just wait for the AI to come into your trap; it will be a couple glorious battles to wipe out most of the AI forces. With railroad, there will be major attacks from the AI during the first turn; therefore, we should concentrate our force in one beachead to minimize units' lost. Since I always pack along a settler in my invasion force, I use that to setup my outpost and rush a barrack immediately to help heal my troops.

Moonsinger - we must really be "siblings in mind" ;)

Guess im just a tad more evil. I make sure to land a 1:1 ratio for all there available counter attack units. Then i use the seperate beach heads with minimal units to use as resource deniers or just to cause trouble behind the main invasion point. Don't under value the ability of a few units on the other side of there empire cutting roads to resources luxuries and just plain road cutting to slow them up.

But yet i was mainly referring to the Modern area type of beach head invasion. The largest beach head invasion i have ever launched involved 12 transports 5 carrier groups (1 carrier 3 battleships 1 sub and acouple destroyers ) and 6 transports in reserve. I also had several nuclear subs with tatical nukes standing by for a last case scenario.

Originally posted by D9phoenix
Guess im just a tad more evil. I make sure to land a 1:1 ratio for all there available counter attack units. Then i use the seperate beach heads with minimal units to use as resource deniers or just to cause trouble behind the main invasion point. Don't under value the ability of a few units on the other side of there empire cutting roads to resources luxuries and just plain road cutting to slow them up.
That may not work if your civ is democracy. Having units hanging behind the enemy lines with little support from the rest of your force would also stir up unrest within your empire as well. Therefore, you also damage yourself as much as you damage your enemy. Moreover, since now the AI has to deal with multiple points of invasion, their force will spread out which means the war will last a lot longer which isn't good for democracy. However, it may work fine for other type of government.:)

D9, see DS2 :lol: at that time, Carrier groups are a LOT better at cutting stuff - far greater range inland than a handfull of troops - unless you bring 10 defenders and 20 Exploreres :D

Originally posted by Lt. 'Killer' M.
Carrier groups are a LOT better at cutting stuff - far greater range inland than a handfull of troops
That's an excellent way of cutting off AI resources!:goodjob: I have forgotten all about that since by the time I get bomber, there usually isn't any one left to fight against me.:( All those shinning bombers have no place to go and no one to bomb; it's just so sad!:cry:

ohhhhh, poor you....... :lol:

I jsut LOVE playing CAG, planning out what to bomb and how to move the armada around to fool the AI.... pity it is so dumb :(

Originally posted by D9phoenix
One other small point, when landing a beachead.. i always send 1 or 2 transports out to another area to draw as many counter attackers as possible away from the main invasion site. This way your attack force may be saved some damage.

I agree, especially if you plan it out sufficiently. Like: the secondary/diversionary force should not diminish the number or type of troops in the main force. Secondary force should threaten something like a city with a Wonder or near 2 or 3 luxuries. IF they dont have rail, attack with the secondary force FIRST to draw fire. Then when the main force lands you can sometimes take more than your original plan called for.

Even if the diversion force lands second, the AI tends to respond to all incursions...newly created units might get diverted to the secondary force-they arent going to let your task force just waltz across Egypt.

If the second force can do something like deny their only source of iron or oil or wine, all the better. It can make for a short war.

I have also floated EMPTY galleons and transports off the coast to look like a third wave with decent effect.

As for WW, a part of that seems to be the distance from the homeland where the battles are being waged. A war along your border tends to infect the whole empire faster and more profoundly. An invasion half a map a way far less so.


The brute force method can work, but I have also managed to detroy entire large invasion stacks by setting up adefensive line of ZOC units, lure them 4 or 5 tiles into my territory (letting them take hits along the way), then run a diversionary force up to 1 or 2 of their cities. The AI then responds by withdrawing its invasion stack to attack/defend YOUR incursion. When they do, hit them all along the long trip out of your territory.

Just by taking out their hurt ones you can get several GLs and wipe out the entire army without them ever even mounting a single attack on one of your cities.

What I miss most in Civ 3 vis a vis beachheads in the Modern era is the ability of bombers to INTERDICT enemy movement.

You could leave a bomber over an enemy road in Civ 2 and the enemy would have to shoot it down to be able to use the road. In Civ 3 all we can do is use a bunch of bombers to try to eliminate the rail and road in the tile in question. Difficult.

The result? MASSIVE quick counterattacks are feasible - making invasions even more difficult.

We also asked for a "patrol" function after Civ 2 came out for naval units. We never got it. That would have helped spot transports closing in.

Moonsinger,

I disagree with you. Yes, you want to concentrate your forces, but you should ALWAYS plan a diversionary force. I detail one strategy in my Ra Mesh thread, but the key is the element of surprise. If you only have one point of attack, even if its larger, the AI only has one area to worry about. They will move all forces to this one attack front and makes life harder for you with counterattacks. Remember that most inland cities will not be as heavily defended by offensive units because they'll be sent to the first front. If you have a second attack force that lands after the first, this second attack force actually does more damage. Most of the enemy's forces are tied up in the first assault. I usually call the second attack force the sweet spot - it usually is my target, or what I was after in the first place. Then I carve out a chunk of his land with both forces sweeping towards each other.

I also don't hear of people talking much about using Air and Navy forces in their attacks. Yes, if you have such a commanding lead over the AI where you're landing Tanks and Infantry and they have Musketmen and Knights, then yes, throw strategy out the window, land a bunch on their land and blitz away! But that only happens on the lower difficulty levels. But, if you play on the harder levels, chances are you'll have at least one enemy who is at least as strong as you, or as technologically advanced unit wise. I find that if my first wave of attacks is a Navy/Air assault I can even further weaken their position by cutting off roads and pillaging strategic resources. Many times, i'll park 3-4 carriers full of bombers and Jet Fighters and just bomb their resources. Sometimes, even if they send workers to rebuild I can bomb faster than they can build! Sometimes the AI doesn't even rebuild the roads on the resource, further crippling them. Then once I land, I have an idea that they will not be able to counterattack as strong because I have cut off their ability to build certain key military units (attack rubber, aluminum, saltpeter, etc.), or happiness. If I attack happiness during my air assaults, not only do they have happiness issues, but it also strains their diplomatic relations if they were trading with another Civ. I also wheel and deal with other Civs to make sure they can't just trade for resources once I cut them off.

In essence, I usually have a very high success rate once I land my ground troops because the enemy has been pretty weakened. I've seen a huge AI Civ try and sue for peace BEFORE I landed my ground troops because of the success of my Air/Naval campaign.

I look forward to PTW, when multi-frontal assaults become more necessary. However, it should not be forgotten when putting the smackdown on the AI! :)

To RaMesh:

It's really all base on which battle tactic you refer. I'm using the famous French "Dien Ben Phu" tactic. Remember the historical "Dien Bien Phu" battle where the French lost their war in Vietnam? Since the Viet Ming were everywhere, the best way to depeat them was to concentrate French force in one spot and wait for the enemy to come to you. I like the idea of fighting one glorious battle to determine the outcome of the war. The French got the right idea; the fact that they lost that glorious battle because they underestimated the North Vietnamese force. Just like the French chosing to fight at Dien Bien Phu, if we choose the battle location wisely, we should be able to wipe out most of enemy forces in one (or few) glorious battle. So far, that tactic has been working great for me. Once they lost that one glorious battle, they don't have much units left to defend themselves; now we can just take our time to reduce 3 or 4 enemy cities to dirt in every turn.:)

Your tactic is ok too; however, I think your war will last longer.;) And I think your tactic require more units. In most of my game (emperor or deity level), I'm usually the weakest civ; therefore, I have to choose my battle carefully and can't aford to commit my troops to multiple location. Plus, the idea of be able to depeat an enemy three or four times my size is really what drawing me to the game.:)

I usually land in 1 point and secure it, then i land at multiple points along the coast cutting off the major cities away from the front and allow my 1st wave to meet with the larger 2nd wave

In your modern sratigy for beacheads, u frogot 1 thing: nuclear subs. :nuke: if u nuke the civ in question beforehand, it will desroy their improvements so they cant use 'em; u cant use 'em anyway so why not?

i can answer that: diplomatic consequences

The one problem I found when establishing beachheads the other day was culture. If the island has many culturally high cities or even worse a capital, it is easy for your cities to get absorbed by them, losing you all those tens of defenders and attackers in the city.
Playing the other day the Russians were on a small island but had 7 cities of 15 pop+. I established a beachhead but lost the city quickly through culture. In the end I had to retreat and wait until I gained a tech. advantage (tanks) before I could make a sufficient imprint
I then tried my old and proven tactic - I went for a huge landing party of about 40 tanks in the middle of their south coast, then split them into three forces. The smallest force moved directly North to Moscow as a diversion, while 15 tanks went East and 15 more West. I used them to work to the far coast and then north, slowly surrounding Moscow. Finally I sent each prong in and took the capital with relative ease.

m3sitm: CF is why you don't TAKE a city but FOUND one. Also, with so many defenders it cannot flip, after all the foreign culture, the foreign pop and the 'unhappy' factors are zip ;)

Then, once you razed the neoghbouring AI cities, overlap is zero also :D

one of my most enjoyable and successful attacks came as the result of a poorly planned double invasion of about equal forces. Landed force A after a 8 bomber carrier attack on a mountain and waited. Bombed out the roads to the city and loaded the troops back onto the transports. (my bombers were about gone)
Did the same at invasion point 2 (bomb -unload-reload) I couldn't see a clear cut way to get
break into this railroaded mech inf empire....
So i continued this process until the AI and I were both confused as to where i was going to strike...
Joined both groups together and started smashing isloated cities, razing and reloading
Sea and Air power are crucial

To overcome the flipping problem in any captured city, I never station units within them. I first pillage all but one road or rail that leads to another city, preferrably one I've built, and leave some offensive units outside the city, but within attacking range. If you can, also keep some artillery units around. The AI will always try to capture the city. And every time that you attack and keep a city, its population is reduced by 1-2 citizens. I do this until the city is size 1 or 2, so that I have fewer resisters to quell. This works for a city that you plan or don't plan to keep, because if you want to keep it, you'll be able to send in some of your settlers and workers once the AI has stopped attacking. And if you don't plan on keeping the city, you can just quell the resisiters and keep an outdated unit inside to keep the citizens content, so if the city still flips back, its not a big loss.

Killer, I found one thing I don't like about it: you end up wrecking your reputation doing this.

Instead, declare war outside their territory, then land on the same turn. You might lose a couple more troops because you aren't fortified (the town is useless at this point), but I'd rather keep my reputation.

bring settlers along with you. Part of the reason the enemy throws 100 defenders at you is because you are attacking/holding one his cities. Eliminate that part of the problem by razing the city and building your own settlement, that way you will no longer have to worry about a culture flip.

Also, one invasion force is not enough, unless you plan to use it to simply wreak havic, which can be a darn good strategy. Here's what I do if I plan to simply ransack and pillage:

First off, get an alliance with your rival's fiercest neighbor, ie: talk with the Babylonians if you are going after the Zulu. Then get as many cats on the continent in cahoots with you. Trust me, this is where good diplomatic relations come in to play. If you have a solid trading history with the other scientific/religious folks on the board, you are in luck because they will devote a ton of resources to eliminating a problematic expansionist like the Aztecs.

And by the way, you do not need to be in "control' of your continent to do the deed, you need to be in control of the diplomatic situation my friend.

For example (unfortunately I do not have screen saves so you'll have to take me at my word) I once had a solid chunk of my continent locked up. I was in a Monarch level with 16 civs on a huge random continental map. By the advent of the Industrial Revolution there had been quite a bit of jockeying for position amongst my rivals to the north and south. I was positioned in between the Zulu to the south and the Persians to the north on a continental divide roughly the equivalent of Mexico and Central America with the Zulu representing SA and Persia NA.

Anywho, across the ocean the world was a mess. There was a major collision of European and Asian cultures on the other continent who were constantly at war with each other. With all of them looking for some sort of a balancing influence I introduced myself as their primary merchant nation. For a good 900 years my shopkeepers and small manufacturers were very happy because though we had few luxuries (but got lucky on the resources) we were able to trade technological advancements for large amounts of cash to finance public works projects and scientific research. Even though my borders were quite tight and compact, I was able to build an extremely effective military based primarily on naval power. It was a classic English Empire model.

Now I did not plan it that way, but the way things broke down, I had no choice. Considering my teritory position and the relative strength of my neighbors, I was not able to go toe to toe with either the Persians or the Zulu. All i could do was create an economic advantage for myself and play politics with two powers that had a eyes on my saltpeter, and later oil and rubber. So I simply kept them close to me technologically while I quietly financed an enormous naval fleet.

As time went on I was able to not only gain contacts throughout the Eurpoean and Asian realms, I was able to gain incredible standing with all of them by simply staying out of their military affairs. At least until the time was right at least -- more on that later. For almost seven centuries the Japanese and Chinese alternated between fighting with each other and the Russians who in turn were constantly at war the Germans, French and English.

Meanwhile I eventually sent two scouts to roam the countryside and give me valuable insight to the border fluctuations and power transfers. What I found was that along the continents west coast a power vacuum was about to be created.

The Greeks, who had held the western coastal portion of the continent for some 2000 years still held all their cities, but were losing military power at an alarming rate. I had built small settlements along the Grecian northern coast (before the Greeks had been able to completely exapnd their cultural influence) along what could be compared to a small Meditterranean Sea and had planted a good chunk of military units there with some naval support.

I sent envoys to speak with Alexander and found that he was desperate for a military alliance against the Russians who had begun battering him 50 years before and had decimated his military to an inneffective band of swordsman and archers in this day of riflemen and cavalry. I respectfully declined but traded him iron and saltpeter so he could continue building military units while I loaded my fortified settlers from the homeland(built some 40 years earlier in case such an event might happen somewhere on the continent) on to transports and headed for the western seaboard of the Eurpoean continent.

Upon my arrival I found that the Russians had been joined in the Greek orgy by the Chinese, English, Japanese, French, Germans and Romans. Mine was the only nation not taking part in the bachanal, but that was fine, my boys were about to do something far more sinister: steal the land out from under all their noses then beat them all back through devious alliances. Well, that was the plan at least.

When I arrived the I sent five settlers scurrying across the map opening up settlements near what were once Greek city-states. The Russians were burning everything to the the ground, but the Chinese were absorbing Greek settlements in to its empire. The English, Germans and french were always a step behind the Russian coassacks and Chinese Riders, so I was able to gobble up some very rich lands quite easily.

With my settlements in place I began to build cultural edifications like crazy and began to focus my military might towards the one place no one seemed to want to go, a small continent roughly the equivalent of Australia inhabited by the Aztecs.

for the whole of history the Aztecs had been able to wander the northeast part of the map and rule without competition. Centuries before they had routed the Americans and Iroquois in very bloody wars. Near the end Abe Lincoln and Hiawatha were so desperate it seemed that they would have traded their capitals to anyone willing to help defend them. Instead, the Aztecs overrun them and turned the northeast corner of the map in to their own domain complete with a formidable navy, but a very weak economy. Isolated from the rest of the world and diplomatically aggressive with the rest of the populace, the Aztecs were the bastard child of the globe, so i decided to be the one to kick them in the ass.

First I followed my own advice and set up healthy diplomatic relations with my European, African, Asian and Persian colleagues -- none of whom had any love for the Aztecs -- set off bound for the western coast of the Aztecs. I sent one force, but I knew it would be enough to cause havoc in Mexico City.

I sent over three transports of troops (I'm talking Industrial Age) and left the armor at home. I established a defended beachhead off one of the weaker/smaller coastal cities and simply attacked the nearest city and began pillaging improvements. The point was not to take the Aztecs in one swift stroke, but to bleed them dry and cause them to suffer and bend to my military.

This may not be mathematically true, but I have found that there seems to be times when the AI is low on morale, especially after three cities have been taken and deprived of one or more resource. That's the feeling at least.

Anywho, after I landed my initial military force, I loaded up another three transports and sent them over and repeated the process until i had a steady supply line travelling along the northern seas over the Eurpoean continent towards the Aztecs.

Basically, my method was to simply batter the Aztecs in to submission rather than take the cities. I burned and pillaged everything in my path and then repopulated with my own settlers. And because I had a very powerful navy, I was able to ward off any potential challenges from my rivals. Because the cirtcumstances dictated my course of action I was able to open up for business on three chunks of land. Corruption was a *****, but the land holdings more than paid for themselves by depriving my rivals form simply getting to the resources. But then again, I was lucky, if the Persians had gone to war with me before I had finished my business with the Aztecs, i would have been screwed. Fortunately I did not fight with either the Persians or the Zulu until another 100 years later after I had produced enough cavalry to knock both sides back a good 10 squares in either direction. That was a pain in the ass, let me tell you.

Any stories from you guys? This stiff is so much fun.