One thing that I've noticed a lot of modmods and individuals add is the ability to build improvements everywhere. I wanted to post my own and see what others have added and see what the community in general thinks of the individual improvements.

Introducing Mailbox's Improvement Mod-Mod:

Download v2.0 here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8855

MIMM for FF current version:

So I've been playing around a bit more, and as I mentioned in the main modding thread, I'm trying to get Necromancy to enable the building of graveyards and barrows. However, my current code doesn't seem to be allowing it, despite the abilities showing up on the screen for necromancy. Anyone know what could be causing this?

You have to enable the building order for whichever unit should build it. Look at the tag <Builds> under workers or Adepts (or hunters) to see how it is done.

I'll have to sit down sometime and look over precisely how you set up the improvements here. I made a module which accomplishes this, but I just used the numbers which Sureshot had used in his modmod, I haven't thought about balance yet. If you don't mind trying it out and giving me feedback it'd be much appreciated :)

Have you added the build to CIV4BuildInfos.xml and given it to at least one unit (and are testing with that unit) ?

Does it show the ability but nothing is getting done? That would be the case if you gave the ability to build it to a unit without a workrate.

I realized when I went out to eat that I had forgotten to give it to a unit to test it. Is there an easier way to set it to workers (say by unitclass) or do I just need to stick to giving it to each one?

As for balances, I'm finding that rather hard to do. Wineries with +1f +1c end up getting spammed by the AI instead of being spread out and camps end up on every forested tile, even though they have negatives to production. I'm hoping that I can find a healthier balance, which will probably be in the form of later techs granting bits and pieces instead of front loaded (like most improvements are now).

By the way, since it's sort of related, I had this silly idea yesterday.

Make a map, remove all bonuses (except mana), make sure you're playing with a mod that allows you to build all improvements. Basically, if you need Reagents, better start spamming Plantations and hope you get lucky.

The trick is, of course, to set the spawn chance just right so you don't end up with a bonus in every improved tile. Any thoughts on that? How exactly is this calculated?

By the way, since it's sort of related, I had this silly idea yesterday.

Make a map, remove all bonuses (except mana), make sure you're playing with a mod that allows you to build all improvements. Basically, if you need Reagents, better start spamming Plantations and hope you get lucky.

The trick is, of course, to set the spawn chance just right so you don't end up with a bonus in every improved tile. Any thoughts on that? How exactly is this calculated?

On normal speed, the discovery bonus is one in <iDiscoverRand>, which is increased by Earth mana (I think it becomes 1 in DiscoverRand/ (# of earth mana). This is set for each resource in the improvement infos, and for the main mod/vanilla civ 4, only is set to an actual number for mines.

Added version 1.0 (for .31c) to the first post, feedback is more than welcome!

there are other modmods with improvements everywhere other than mine and now this one? heh

good to see a version of this for 0.31, improvements anywhere makes the Creation map much more viable for those plains starts. tho i def recommend changing pastures to 1 :food: / 1 :hammers: since then theyre more competitive with wineries for those who need food but can't farm

I will probably remove my module and just link to yours next time I revise things, for now I'll just link to yours and tell people that it is better :p

Questions though: What did you do to the Unique Features & the Mana Nodes? I noticed they were in your file while making certain that the improvements CAN discover new resources and didn't take the time to analyze much.

If you didn't change anything on them, then you shouldn't need to include them. Except as needed to avoid the issue with Cottage/Village/Town's upgrading properly.

And on that note, have you tested to ensure that it all works properly as a Module? I'll give it a go myself this weekend, but make certain that those improvements which you want to have upgrading really DO upgrade.

ah, hadn't been payin too much attention and didnt notice the modular FfH thread

and yes, you need to include everything because of the fort/cottage upgrade issue unless something has changed heh

there are other modmods with improvements everywhere other than mine and now this one? heh

good to see a version of this for 0.31, improvements anywhere makes the Creation map much more viable for those plains starts. tho i def recommend changing pastures to 1 :food: / 1 :hammers: since then theyre more competitive with wineries for those who need food but can't farm

I originally had pastures with food but I felt like if they had food they cut into the territory of farms. I've also changed the requirement for wineries to give food to feudalism so I might give pastures a + food with some tech or civic.

I'm thinking I might give pastures + 1 food and - 1 hammers with agriculture as to make them more similar to farms and also give cottages and their upgrades a penalty with agriculture to take away some of it's power.

I'm thinking I'm going to fool around with civics next, and give different civics a chance to change yields so that the civics you're running make a difference to the improvements you want to have. Slavery already gives a boost to quarries, which is a really cool and thematic change that I'll want to boost with the other civics.

Perhaps nerf city states by depowering cottage upgrades and give fort upgrades boosts with military state or conquest? I'll just have to see how it turns out.

Sureshot is also right about the improvements, if you cut it down to just the changed improvements, it gives all sorts of errors. Then again, it might be nice to give all the mana nodes a little boost in case they're in a city radius.

One semi-pleasant thing you can do as long as you are doing a full change is to make more than just cottages/pirate-bay/forts upgrade :) I had contemplated making essentially everything upgrade, and only be capable of discovering a resource at the final level of upgrade when I first ran into the annoying inability to do upgrades in a Module without changing EVERYTHING in the module so you line up properly.

Could be nice to have some offer eventual defensive bonuses (camps & Towns?), some become permanent (Mines, Quarries & Mana Nodes?) and a few of them do other nifty things.

You can also create new improvements with unique flavor, make them Cycle. So you could create a replacement for farms available with Sanitation or Engineering called "Rotating Crops (Profit)" & "Rotating Crops (Yield)". Each upgrades into the other one after 10 turns, Profit gives lots of money and Yield gives lots of food. So the trick is to get some set up to cycle opposite each other so that even though your tiles are continually shifting back and forth for what they provide, since they swap with each other the net effect is equivalent to 2 farms AND 2 cottages between those 2 tiles (but of course if you mess up the synchronization then you can starve or over-grow your city.)

Winery -> Vineyard
Camp -> Hunting Grounds (Bonuses with FoL civics/techs)
Plantation -> Estate (Bonus with Slavery)
Mine -> Deep Mine
Quarry -> Open Pit -> Strip Mine (give the latter two the ability to discover metals)
Pasture -> Ranch (Bonus with Agriculture)
Lumbermill -> Sawmill

I should start work on adding these in, and have the next version up in a couple of days. I'd also like to continue hearing ideas, especially for civic/improvement synergies.

Xienwolf, I really like that second idea and it could be used for a lot of interesting mechanics such as high yield farms that wear out then must be worked fallow to be high yield again or very high yield mines that are permanent but eventually collapse into uselessness.

Added v1.1 with new improvement upgrades to first post.

On normal speed, the discovery bonus is one in <iDiscoverRand>, which is increased by Earth mana (I think it becomes 1 in DiscoverRand/ (# of earth mana). This is set for each resource in the improvement infos, and for the main mod/vanilla civ 4, only is set to an actual number for mines.

The effect of Earth Mana is also quantised, at 20, which is what's confusing me.

I know that setting iDiscoverRand to 10 makes the resources pop out within a few turns of the improvement being built. 100 is also rather swift but seems to be getting close to the rate I'm looking for. But if I could get the actual formula it'd be even nicer...

v1.2 for .31c

NEW IMPROVEMENTS

Engineered Ritual Nodes

- Able to discover raw mana (1/9000)
- Gives + 1 unhappy
- Buildable at Sorcery (with workers)
- Upgrades to Greater Ritual Node

Greater Ritual Nodes

- Able to discover raw mana (1/4500)
- Gives + 3 unhappy
- Upgrades to Unstable Ritual Node

Unstable Ritual Nodes

- Able to discover mana (1/1500)
- Gives + 5 unhappy

Note, new nodes must be pillaged before they can be turned into usable nodes.
Unhappy keeps them from being spammed but yet allows players to discover more mana if they are patient.
These abilities are given to workers as an abstraction and for simplification reasons. I'm assuming a society with the knowledge of Sorcery wouldn't need a whole unit of adepts to build a ritual node and the adepts are still needed to build the actual node.

Another thing is my text file doesn't seem to want to cooperate with me, even though I have it set as the modular text files I've seen.

You need all the other languages added to your text file, even if they are still just English text in them.

The new nodes seem nifty :) Can't wait to see what more you add in.

You need all the other languages added to your text file, even if they are still just English text in them.

The new nodes seem nifty :) Can't wait to see what more you add in.

I'm still having problems with the name display. It works fine if I splice the entries directly into the CIV4GameText.xml file but won't work as a module.

Coolness. It's nice to know that I can quit including the other languages in my Modules if I want to save some time :)

Your problem is simply the file name. If placed in Assets/XML/Text the appropriate filename would be CIV4GameText_MIMM.xml However, if placed in a module, the appropriate filename is MIMM_CIV4GameText.xml

Change that and everything works just fine.

The idea of crop cycles is nice, but please make sure that you don't overload the mechanism with micromanagement. It's not entertaining to re-plant your farms every x turns!

Hiho;

First of all, thanks alot for making another modular modmod :)


I should start work on adding these in, and have the next version up in a couple of days. I'd also like to continue hearing ideas, especially for civic/improvement synergies.

How about adding a +1 :food: for workshops when you use serfdom ?
Reasoning: You added plenty of possiblities to get :hammers: - Pasture, Cities, Lumbremill/Sawmill, Estates, Ranch - all those net you extrahammers.
In the "old civ/ffh" you kinda just got Mines and Workshops if you wanted to go for hammers.
While Mines got another upgrade, Workshops did not get any buff yet - and those were already underused under "old rules".
Serfdom would kinda fit thematically for this.

I'd even think about giving Workshops +1 hammer all the time (start with -1 food, +3 hammers instead of -1/+2), on top of that - just to keep them viable when compared to all those other, buffed up improvements now.


------------------------

Does Arete still give +1 Hammer for mines ?
How about Deep mines ?
The changelog does not mention Arete, thus I'm wondering.

------------------------

How about +1 :food: for Quarries (and its upgrades) when running slavery ?
Kind of a cliché, but perhaps you like thise idea

------------------------

I get your reasoning for not improving farms and mines, and trying to keep cottages as they are...
But right now, SE pays off even more than before. You still get plenty of food and all those new improvements take care of your production needs, thus you can just use specialists to get money/beakers all the way...

Don't know how to easily "fix" that (I'ma big fan of options, thus both SE and CE should be viable imho - right now it's not with those improvement of yours)

I guess one way would be to remove abit more :food: in general from improvments to ensure that coins (when compared to food->merchants/scientists) pay off again - or if you don't want to nerf any improvements, I'd think about getting cottages (and the upgrades thereof) 1 more coin - or perhaps a civic (republic?) improving the output of cottages.

-------------------------

My 2 cents so far, now back to playing/testing :)



PS:
Oh, one last thing:
I guess it's not that important, but a small read-me how to enable modules and where to copy your modular mod-mod to, would really help beginners...

@JDexter: Ideally these cyclic improvements would all be made so that the "bad" version of them is permanent, thus you cannot simply pillage them to get around the detriment which is intended to balance their effects.


Came up with another semi-nifty idea:
Exploited Village
Can only be built on a tile with 6 or more Commerce (Or whatever is required to ensure that it has to be a Town for a non-financial leader)
Permanent
+15 Commerce
Upgrades to "Ghost Town" in 15 turns
Pillages to a Cottage

Ghost Town
Permanent
Base Tile Yield only
+1 :yuck:
Upgrades to Cottage in 5 turns
Spawns Skeletons


With this you could work it up to have quite a few of them "saved" and not worked so that you can switch to working these tiles when in need of a really strong boost to your commerce, but if you don't then work the Ghost Town that follows you could be facing dire consequences.

Added v1.3 to first post

v1.3 for .31d

- Tested for .31d
- Fixed text errors (Thanks xienwolf)

As for improvement yields being changed by civics, that's going to be in v1.4. I also added a note how to install the mod-mod in the download link (since I inculded the .ini, it isn't hard at all).

New Version:

v1.4 for .31d

New Improvements:

- Farm Complex: Farm Upgrade
+ 2 food
- 1 hammers
- 1 commerce
+ 1 with Irrigation
+ 1 with Sanitation


- Manufactory: Workshop upgrade
- 1 food
+ 2 hammers
+ 1 commerce

+ 1 hammers with Guilds
+ 1 commerce with Construction


- Metropolis: Town upgrade
+ 1 hammers
+ 4 commerce
+ 10% Tile Defense
Acts as a city

+ 1 commerce with Taxation


- Waterworks: Upgrades from Watermill
+ 2 hammers
+ 2 commerce

+ 1 hammers with Machinery
+ 1 commerce with Machinery


- Windmill Farm: Upgrades from Windmill
+ 1 food
+ 1 hammers
+ 2 commerce

+ 1 hammers
+ 1 commerce with Machinery


Civic Changes-

City States:

- Town
* -1 commerce
- Metropolis
* -2 commerce


Aristocracy:

- Farm Complex
* -1 food
* +3 commerce
- Pasture
* -1 hammers
* +2 commerce
- Ranch
* -1 hammers
* +2 commerce
- Winery
* -1 food
* +2 commerce
- Vineyard
* -1 food
* +2 commerce


Nationhood:

- Fort
* +1 commerce
- Castle
* +1 commerce
- Citadel
* +1 commerce


Arete:

- Deep Mine
* +1 hammers
* +1 commerce
- Strip Mine
* -1 food
* +1 hammers


Slavery:

- Plantation
* +1 hammers
* -1 commerce
- Estate
* +1 hammers
* -1 commerce
- Open Pit
* +1 hammers
* -1 commerce
- Strip Mine
* +1 hammers
* -1 commerce


Military State:

- Fort
* +1 hammers
- Castle
* +1 hammers
* +1 commerce
- Citadel
* +1 food
* +1 hammers
* +1 commerce



Serfdom:

- Workshop
* +1 food
- Manufactory
* +1 food


Agriculture:

- Farm Complex
* +1 food
* -1 hammers
- Pasture
* +1 food
* -1 hammers
- Ranch
* +1 food
* -1 hammers
- Camp
* -1 food
- Hunting Ground
* -1 food

Could a mod change the thread title to "Mailbox's Improvement Mod-mod"?

How about a list of prerequisites for the new improvements?

How about a list of prerequisites for the new improvements?

All improvements added without tech prereqs merely upgrade (like cottages-> towns). Ritual Nodes require Sorcery.

Finally actually playing a game, and using your module. I hadn't quite realized you made the Graveyards buildable and what that means in the long run. Probably ought to remove that since you can basically give yourself free Technologies and Units that way.

Finally actually playing a game, and using your module. I hadn't quite realized you made the Graveyards buildable and what that means in the long run. Probably ought to remove that since you can basically give yourself free Technologies and Units that way.

I was planning on the players just not exploiting it, but I think I'll take them out anyways. On things I might take out as well, I think metropolises might be bad for the Bannor since their worldspell / Crusade requires Towns (and I wish to keep this purely modular). Instead I believe I'll add more tech/civic bonuses for towns.

As for other things I'm looking into, I want to do this:

I'd actually not mind seeing a few of the nodes simply improve the Tile Yields instead of needing to have a far ranging change on the Empire/Area. Then when you happen to settle a city with Mana in the fat cross you can choose one of the Tile Yield Mana types to build so that the spot is somewhat useful still for working.

I'm not sure about the yield values right yet, but I'm going to test some more things before beginning on these.

Added v1.5

v1.5 for .31e

NOTICE: I know upgraded improvements sometimes don't display properly, this is an Art Defines/ Art thing and I'm not quite sure how to fix it.
- Adjusted Rice/Wheat Farm Complex values.
- Changed Advanced Start values to -1 for all improvements (so AI does better [builds more cities] on No settler Advance starts)
- Graveyards not restricted to flatlands
- Ancient Towers now able to be razed
- Adjusted Farm Complex values to no longer give penalties
- Removed ability to build Graveyards
- Removed metropolises
- Towns gain + 1 hammers at Guilds (tech)
- Fishing Boats give + 1 food at Optics
- Whaling Boats give + 1 hammers at Optics
- Greater Ritual Node discovery chances

So which improvements have you had problems with on Display? I just popped them all in Worldbuilder and I am seeing that the upgraded Farm is just the hut, no cute little squares of land, and the Windmill Farm is smaller than the Windmill (I assume it was meant to be multiple?

Any others that just aren't bugging out on me?

EDIT: Also, I just downloaded it, but Metropolis is still in there and Graveyards still buildable.

EDIT 2: And your problem is in the CIV4PlotLSystem.xml file. Have to define all of the new Improvements in there since each entry is linked to the Improvement and not to the Art Define.

Bah, damn double posting. Why doesn't someone reply before I look up new things to add :p

Anyway, this tutorial (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=153584) will walk you through setting things up to add Unique Graphics if you so desire. After Finals are done (2 weeks) I might have a sit down and see if I can whip something up if you haven't gotten to any of it. At the least make the upgraded farms look like normal farms.

Awesome, thanks for the help with the art defines. I fixed the Graveyard bug and added a new improvement (watch tower), as well as some other stuff, but I'll wait to release it until after my finals are done as well. I left the metropolis in for now but might remove it before the next version is released.

Well, I started to merge a little to take a break from the SDK (and have something useable to release along with random tidbits for other modders). Why did you change the Defense Bonuses of Tundra & Snow, and increase the move cost of snow (which I had thought was 2 anyways... Did you make Winterborn provide double Movement in Snow while you were at it? Haven't gotten that far yet...)

EDIT: Fun with Modding: Moved all of your code into mine with a few minor tweaks (removed Graveyards & Barrows from being buildable is about all I think). Changed buttons for the Ritual Nodes too. So far it seems to be working decently well (except the changes I made that are completely unrelated of course). One note though: The Ritual Node Unhappy will only apply to a city if the Node is within the Workable Tile range of that City. So the detractor isn't quite so huge, as people can just build a bunch of them outside their BFCs and avoid the penalty completely.

EDIT 2: Hadn't actually built a node yet, just placed with Worldbuilder. The point of them is to discover Mana with them, right? Setting <BonusConvert>BONUS_MANA</BonusConvert> means they automatically create Mana beneath themselves when built. And since you didn't set any Terrain Makes Valid or other switches, I can't seem to build them anywhere at all, possibly I could build them ON mana... but that would be mildly pointless.

I am trying to decide between setting them to automatically create the Mana, be Permanent, and the final version upgrade to something Pillageable (Barrow maybe), or having them with just the chance to discover Mana, and be pillageable anytime.

EDIT 3: I went with the second choice. Made it valid for all possible terrain except Ice (might go ahead and allow it there too...) and you can destroy them at any time, or keep on waiting for some precious Mana to pop.

EDIT 4: Ok, I tried just putting the upgraded Improvements in with the non-upgraded ones and I only made the non-upgraded ones demote to looking like the upgrades were looking :P I'll have to read more on how to do them right (I barely skimmed that tutorial I linked so far)

The terrain values were a change from Sureshot's Modmod that I really liked, and I thought that it fit well with the entire theme of terrain alteration this modmod is aiming to achieve.

Actually with the mana nodes, I meant for them to discover mana only when worked (like most resources). This means that building them outside the city's BFC is pointless. I might have put the wrong code in, because having them appear when the node is built is way too powerful.

I do like the tutorial and it's tempting me to add some more resources to the game and finally go through with the change to archery/bowyers and make them woodworking techs that allow windmills/watermills. Too bad exams are on me.


EDIT: Just fixed Ritual Nodes, thanks for the heads up.

Yeah, exams here too or I'd be tackling that damn Upgraded Farm graphic issue. Quite vexing.

Perhaps the Buildable Ritual Node should have NO chance to discover Mana at all, but upgrade in 1 or 2 turns to what you currently have (so 4 levels instead of 3). If what you build has a SMALL chance, then you can still spam them outside of the BFC and eventually get mana with no penalties/drawbacks.

I can't remember if I mentioned it, but your Ritual Nodes are also set to upgrade to the next level incorrectly. Instead of IMPROVEMENT_BLAH you have TXT_KEY_IMPROVEMENT_BLAH, thus making them fail to upgrade.

Fixed the Node upgrades.

About the farm upgrades; I think that I'm just going to go a completely different route and cut the upgraded farms out all together (especially in light of the issues you mentioned in the Worker Mod thread). Instead I'm going to lower the bonuses with a farm for wheat/corn/rice to +1 f / + 1 h / + 1 c (respectively) and raise the chance for resources to be found on farm tiles to around 1 in 3000-5000.

Here's my working log for 1.6

Improvements:
- Clams now give:
+ 1 food
+ 1 hammer
+ 2 commerce
- New Improvement: Watch Tower
- 3 line of sight
- Buildable outside borders
- Optics Enables
- Fishing Boats now give + 1 food at Astronomy instead of Optics
- Whaling Boats give + 1 hammers at Astronomy instead of Optics
- Ritual Node and upgrades fixed (thanks Xienwolf)
- Farm Complexes removed
- Farms now have an increased chance to find resources (1 in 4500)
- Farms now give:
+ 1 food with Corn
+ 1 hammers with Wheat
+ 1 food with Rice

Civics:

- Public Healers now gives +25% GPP
- City States
- Culture penalty increased to -50%
- Town penalty increased to - 2 commerce

Techs:

- Archery changed to Carpentry (in name only)
- Bowyers changed to Advanced Woodworking (in name only)
- Lumbermills moved to Carpentry
- Windmills and Watermills moved to Advanced Woodworking

I was contemplating ditching the upgraded farms myself :) But wanted to make one more attempt at setting them up (or cleaning up the LSystem.xml). I'll just wait for your update and merge it over into Worker Mod to remove them (Main reason I hadn't was that I didn't want to re-balance everything ;))

v1.6

Improvements:
- Clams now give:
+ 1 food
+ 1 hammer
+ 2 commerce
- New Improvement: Watch Tower
- 3 line of sight
- Buildable outside borders
- Optics Enables
- Fishing Boats now give + 1 food at Astronomy instead of Optics
- Whaling Boats give + 1 hammers at Astronomy instead of Optics
- Ritual Node and upgrades fixed (thanks Xienwolf)
- Farm Complexes removed
- Farms now have an increased chance to find resources (1 in 4500)
- Farms now give:
+ 1 food with Corn
+ 1 hammers with Wheat
+ 1 food with Rice

Civics:

- Public Healers now gives +25% GPP
- City States
- Culture penalty increased to -50%
- Town penalty increased to - 2 commerce

Don't think that you changed anything in the CivicOptions.xml file. And you still have the slaves as granting 15 :hammers: instead of 10 (changed in .31 I think).

Was there a reason that you didn't make the Elven Slaves able to build Barrows or Watch Towers?

Fixed the things you mentioned Xienwolf, but I'm not releasing a new version quite yet.

Added a reduced version of MIMM with just simple improvements/upgrades for Fall Further in the first post.

hey Mailbox, I got the farm complex art to work the file is in Xienwolfs Workers Mod thread.

you may or may not need to add this code to your Civ4ArtDefines_Improvement.xml file to get it to work in addition to the plot file on Xienwolfs thread.


<ImprovementArtInfo> <!-- Farm Complex --> <!-- Kasdar --> <!-- Added -->
<Type>ART_DEF_IMPROVEMENT_FARM_COMPLEX</Type>
<bExtraAnimations>1</bExtraAnimations>
<fScale>1.0</fScale>
<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
<NIF>Art/Structures/Improvements/Farm/an_eu_farm01.nif</NIF>
<KFM>Art/Structures/Improvements/Farm/an_eu_farm01.kfm</KFM>
<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Builds/BuildFarm.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Actions_Builds_LeaderHeads_Specialists_Atlas.dds,3 ,7</Button>
</ImprovementArtInfo>

Thanks Kasdar, now farm complexes are back in MIMM. I should release 1.7 as soon as I get my hands on the improvements code and can splice the new improvements into the XML. Right now 1.7 is looking like this:

v1.7

- Fixed slaves
- New Improvement: Dredge Boats (Coast)
- Available at Mind Stapling

- 1 food
+ 2 hammers
+ 1 commerce

+ 1 food
+ 1 commerce at Astronomy

- Fishing boats now give + 1 food instead of + 1 commerce

- Slavery gives + 1 food to Quarries, Open Pits, and Strip Mines

- Changed Workboat AI

- Removed Ritual Nodes/Upgrades (for now, debating whether or not they are needed with metamagic)

- Removed Watch Tower (too many LoS bugs)

- Farm Complexes are back! + 1 food more than a farm when irrigated (Thanks Kasdar for fixing the graphic issue!)
- More tweaks to resources (mostly pastures/ranches and wineries/vineyards)

For 1.8 I think I'll mess around with the unique features and manas and try to give them all some sort of tile bonus. This should help with that unwillingness to put mana in a city radius. :)

with the unique features and manas and try to give them all some sort of tile bonus. This should help with that unwillingness to put mana in a city radius. :)


Very cool! Perhaps a bonus based on multiple manas of the same sort? (Er... I guess if someone is making them they already think it's worth it. But I've always wanted something for lagniappe with the mana.)

More importantly: Will they randomly erupt with unquenchable fire? I think that'd be cool, too, though it may just be the nachos talking.

Shouldn't a deep mine also get the +1 Hammer from Arete?

Deep Mines should get + 1 :hammers: and + 1 :commerce: from Arete.

Version 1.7 Uploaded:

v1.7

- Fixed to work with v.32a
- Fixed slaves
- New Improvement: Dredge Boats (Coast)
- Available at Mind Stapling

- 1 food
+ 2 hammers
+ 1 commerce

+ 1 food
+ 1 commerce at Astronomy

- Fishing boats now give + 1 food instead of + 1 commerce

- Slavery gives + 1 food to Quarries, Open Pits, and Strip Mines

- Changed Workboat AI

- Removed Ritual Nodes/Upgrades (for now, debating whether or not they are needed with metamagic)

- Removed Watch Tower (too many LoS bugs)

- Farm Complexes are back! + 1 food than a farm when irrigated (Thanks Kasdar for fixing the graphic issue!)

- More tweaks to resources (mostly pastures/ranches and wineries/vineyards)

For some reason, I'm still getting crashes that completely shut down my computer while using MIMM. I'm not quite sure what it is but I'm going to make a bare bones version of MIMM until I can isolate the issue. That version will be without the upgrades and only allow the basic improvements to be built.

Hadn't read your changelog when I downloaded 1.7. Finally updating the Worker Mod and I was wondering where on earth the Ritual nodes went!

Your problem with 1.7 might be that some of your files in the Modules aren't named XXX_CIV4___.xml. You kept the default filenames. Not sure if that works with modules.

Version 1.8

v1.8

- Fishing boats are back to + 1 commerce
- Fishing boats get + 1 commerce at Optics
- Fishing boats get + 1 food at Astronomy
- Workboats no longer buildable
- New unit: Sea Worker
- Starts with Water Walking
- Builds all sea improvements
- Can build them on any body of water
- AI knows how to use them (Important part)
- Unable to travel ocean until optics
- Cannot reveal territory


Still having issues with the farm complex graphics though, just as a warning.

I assume they have the standard no :strength: of a worker as well? Nice workaround to dodge the AI written for the sacraficial boats :)

What is the problem with the farm complex graphics?

It just occured to me that I don't need to create a version of Workermod that incorporates your changes here... your Fall Further version accomplishes that since Vehem brought WorkerMod into his work...


Still going to keep an eye on what you do though :) Good stuff so far.

I assume they have the standard no :strength: of a worker as well? Nice workaround to dodge the AI written for the sacraficial boats :)

Yeah, they've got 0 :strength:. I kept having to bump the AI weight up because the computer wasn't building them but now I think I got it to working.

What is the problem with the farm complex graphics?

I'm not sure, I'm using your LPlotSystem files but it is still giving me the same weird graphics systems I was seeing in earlier versions.

It just occured to me that I don't need to create a version of Workermod that incorporates your changes here... your Fall Further version accomplishes that since Vehem brought WorkerMod into his work...


Still going to keep an eye on what you do though :) Good stuff so far.

I actually need to start updating the FF version. I might just roll MIMM up and create a final "FFH2" version that I update as needed and a FF version that is combined with the Legion and "other mods" I might be working on, which would be my main platform.

I just thought of something, I didn't even think about it before but my PlotLsystem file is based off of Fall Further. I will see about making one that is Vanilla BTS. Do you want my costal cottage modification in the vanilla BTS version? Since I will be doing the vanilla version from scratch I don't need to add it if you aren't going to use it.

Okay, so, I'm using Fall Further and I want your spiffy new 1.8 features...

What do I install, what do I not install? Do I need to merge the two module directories or won't they conflict?

Actually, I haven't converted 1.8 over to Fall Further. Right now, I'll go and finish up the two surprises I added to 1.9 and then release a new version as well as update a version for FF.

v 1.9

- Added Levee (+ 1 hammers on river tiles)
- Required Tech: Construction

- Added Altar to the Sea (+ 1 hammers on Coastal/Ocean tiles)
- National Wonder
- Required Tech: Sailing

- Defensive Trait has 0 unkeep on Government Civics


Added 1.9 for FF to the first post as well

Is there something special we have to do to use your mod? I downloaded FF. put it in place, then downloaded your mod and put it in the same folder. However, none of the stuff your mod mentions has taken place. It's like it's ignoring your mod completely.

Did you enable Modular XML Loading? If your mod directory is named something different, my .ini won't overwrite it and you have to enable it yourself in the fall further .ini.

I don't know how to use modular loading, and I thought I heard it mentioned that modular doesn't work for Vista anyways. I copied that Assets folder in your zip into the Fall From Heaven 2 032 Fall Further folder (thus the same as the assets already there), but none of your stuff is showing up.

Your latest Fall Further version doesn't take into account the 'Explorable Lairs' part of Fall Further. It's causing Barrows and such to disappear once a unit steps on them, instead of leaving them to be explored.

Now, I don't know how much you would want Barrows to be both explorable AND buildable, but whatever choice you make, you should perhaps make a clear note of it for people downloading your mod.

I was actually just about to mention that. Considering that exploring dungeons is my favorite part of FF so far, I don't think I'll be using this mod if it takes away that ability.

Fixed, I didn't change the bPermanent tag to 1 for barrows. 1.9b added for FF.

I'd also removed the ability to build barrows from all workers for FF users and I'll probably remove it from the main MIMM as well since they just add several files for little gain.

Just uploaded version 2.0. I think this will be my last independent version before I start rolling this together with the Legion and my upcoming project.

v 2.0

- Hunting grounds only take -1 hammers
- Strip Mines only take - 1 food
- Cottages now give + 0 commerce
- + 1 commerce with Education

- Hamlets now give + 1 commerce
- + 1 commerce with Education

- Villages now give + 2 commerce
- + 1 commerce with Education

- Towns now give + 3 commerce
- + 1 commerce with Education
- + 1 commerce with Taxation
- + 1 hammers with Guilds

- Strip Mine
- - 1 food
- + 2 hammers
- + 2 commerce
- Permanent

- Hunting Grounds
- + 2 food
- - 1 hammers
- + 1 commerce on riverside
- + 1 commerce with Commune with nature