Not another repoll, forget the past, embrace a new future, choose your difficulty

Open until Mar 26 to account for weekend holiday.

Rule one: No one enters my house with weapons :) Please leave them in the barrel by the front door, and recieve a script from Daryl my rather brutish looking friend. Pour man only understands one thing...pulverising on command. His diet consists of raw meet, sometimes out of my cellar...and sometimes from...alternative sources...

Rule two: This poll will be public and involve all choices, and I pray to whatever gods we each individually worship or curse or ignore that we can just do this in peace.

Rule three: All we, as a community ask you to consider is the information testily debated in the following polls, however, do not comment on those debates, nor add to them, should they not be locked yet already.

Rule four: Excercise respect and decorum or you shall be visited by Daryl. He looks hungry to me...

Here in lie the bloody and defiled corpses of this scrum:
Original poll (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267466)
Final runoff (Bwahahahaha) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267956)
Repoll (Rated X-for extreme violence and disturbing mental anguish) (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=267985)

Simply vote for whichever level you feel will be most appropriate, given the information provided in previous polls, such as your comfort level, where you want to play as a team, and what you want from the experience. I believe that said statement is as vanilla as it can get, no bias there whatsoever, but I am only human. (Raises forceshield, casts multi-dimensional wards, and casts invisibility.)

Thanks kwarrior for taking the initiative on this. We were getting nowhere in the other threads (myself included). I'm going to think long and hard on this one...

voted. .

Thank you both.

Voted, I am happy with this motion, and will keep the peace. :)

Voted, I am happy with this motion, and will keep the peace. :)

Yes, as I tell my son almost every night, "Tomorrow will be a better day."

I do want you all to know that I appreciate why previous events occured, and I mean no offense with the dramatic metaphors and enuendos mentioned in the OP, I just think everything has been said, so let's just "...get 'er done!"

A man with a large club enters, and scans the room for signs of conflict. Finding none, he walks over to the covered basket and drops his marker through a slit in the lid. Satisfied that his duty to the tribe is done yet again, he moves to a corner of the room and waits.

Voted 10CHARS.

As of now, votes are:
Noble: 0
Prince: 3
Monarch: 10
Emperor: 4

I would like a security clause as a result for the pressure for higher difficulty levels. If we die prematurely (I have gametested monarch with present settings, a lot of challenging things happens), I would like to restart the game with the same settings we agreed on but difficulty level, which should be lowered down to "Prince" level, and not have another round with rule discussions.

The way Prince level has been pushed around here, makes it deserve a second chance with unaltered game rules and settings, in case the Civ-experts here made a wrong assessment. (This to make sure this was not a misinformed decision or based on bad intentions).

I vote that we will be more successful than some fear. However, in the event of an unlikely and tragic demise, I would support restarting with Prince level.

I support Provo's idea. Just in case. ;)

Provo's idea is something that isn't even needed to be discussed. I'm sorry, but IMO it's just another way to undermine the whole game or bring negativity. Think about this, if this game goes sour do you (in the general sense) honestly think that difficulty will be the only factor we'll want to reconsider? No, I'm betting there will be quite a few options.

There's no need for this discussion and I find it odd that it was even brought up. This type of discussion is expected in faction politics, not game discussion.

His line of discussion is faction politicking ;)

I don't fully agree with the idea, but to a certain extent it could work. In order to appease both sides of the argument, why not pass this clause, but set a certain in-game year or meta-game term that it is valid for. (I.e. by 1AD the clause is no longer valid, or once we finish the second term it becomes void.)

I don't fully agree with the idea, but to a certain extent it could work. In order to appease both sides of the argument, why not pass this clause, but set a certain in-game year or meta-game term that it is valid for. (I.e. by 1AD the clause is no longer valid, or once we finish the second term it becomes void.)

Sounds great to me! BTW, it's just a game!

Provo's idea is something that isn't even needed to be discussed. I'm sorry, but IMO it's just another way to undermine the whole game or bring negativity. Think about this, if this game goes sour do you (in the general sense) honestly think that difficulty will be the only factor we'll want to reconsider? No, I'm betting there will be quite a few options.

There's no need for this discussion and I find it odd that it was even brought up. This type of discussion is expected in faction politics, not game discussion.

This has nothing to do with Faction discusssion, this is a metagame discussion. I want the core rules untouched and retry on Prince. It was in particular your argument for Emperor that pushed the level up one to Monarch (from Prince). This was one of the points we discussed when we wanted Faction above traditional ruleset, and if we can agree on retrying the game if we seem to lose within 1 AD due to too high difficulty level, please let us do so.

I do not see this as an extension of HOF and GOTM games, but a totally different thing. So please respect that view. We can even vote over this difficulty level issue insurance.

Provo's idea is something that isn't even needed to be discussed. I'm sorry, but IMO it's just another way to undermine the whole game or bring negativity. Think about this, if this game goes sour do you (in the general sense) honestly think that difficulty will be the only factor we'll want to reconsider? No, I'm betting there will be quite a few options.

There's no need for this discussion and I find it odd that it was even brought up. This type of discussion is expected in faction politics, not game discussion.

Agreed. If we fail, we fail. *shrug* We look back at what happened, decide what worked and what didn't and start a new game.

The Tribal Council Faction, however, does not believe that we will fail, and consider such discussions before we even start as somewhat defeatist! Thus, we will focus on our success as a nation!

-- Ravensfire

please let us do so.

I do not see this as an extension of HOF
<...snip...>
So please respect that view.

Interesting how your argument for you case is to make it appear that I'm abusing mod powers to get my way. I'm merely a player here, just like everyone else. Feel free to counter statements/arguments I've made, but please don't steer the argument in a direction that 1) I don't do and 2) that isn't based on the discussion at hand. I mean no disrespect Provo and I apologize if it sounds that way.

The Tribal Council Faction, however, does not believe that we will fail, and consider such discussions before we even start as somewhat defeatist! Thus, we will focus on our success as a nation!

-- Ravensfire

Well said :)

This is Demogame 3 after all...so there were two games prior to this, and many of you stayed on to try again, albeit with some additional rules or differences that the community thought were needed as a result of your prior experience. I'm confident that Demogame 4 would occur at some point in the future, but I don't support an "insurance policy" except in the case that we would not need to debate rules and such again.

Further, Provo, there are excellent players in our community. I consider myself to be a good player, but there are people I am already learning of as a result of joining this demogame whom I would gladly learn from. Monarch is not that much harder than Prince really.

We all apreciate the power of positive thought and the expectation of victory. Many more of us can't wait to kick this excellent idea off and have some fun with it all.

Interesting how your argument for you case is to make it appear that I'm abusing mod powers to get my way. I'm merely a player here, just like everyone else. Feel free to counter statements/arguments I've made, but please don't steer the argument in a direction that 1) I don't do and 2) that isn't based on the discussion at hand. I mean no disrespect Provo and I apologize if it sounds that way.

I did not even hint at the Mod power issue here, merely that this is a different game from GOTM and HOF, and has nothing to do with moderation at all. It is against forum rules to discuss moderator actions - I am not even going there.

However, it is perfectly legitimate to point out that this game is different from the HOF and GOTM games, where gameplay is the core, as well as the esoteric terminology that you need to be an expert of Civ to understand or to stay on these forums for a while to comprehend.

I have countered the argument of difficulty, and also made it clear that metagame mechanisms like difficulty belongs in the core rules, not in the faction platforms. We need to all agree on difficulty, not make it a partisan issue for factions. The entire idea of factions was to produce a system where in-game ideas met, not metagame politicking thrived.

Well said :)

This is Demogame 3 after all...so there were two games prior to this, and many of you stayed on to try again, albeit with some additional rules or differences that the community thought were needed as a result of your prior experience. I'm confident that Demogame 4 would occur at some point in the future, but I don't support an "insurance policy" except in the case that we would not need to debate rules and such again.

Further, Provo, there are excellent players in our community. I consider myself to be a good player, but there are people I am already learning of as a result of joining this demogame whom I would gladly learn from. Monarch is not that much harder than Prince really.

We all apreciate the power of positive thought and the expectation of victory. Many more of us can't wait to kick this excellent idea off and have some fun with it all.

Do not make this an election issue. This is a metagame core rule, and we all know that. I know it is easy to mix the metagame and the faction rules, but the core here is that we agree on the game settings and play within these. Choice of difficulty has nothing to do with what the Tribal Council represents.

I did not even hint at the Mod power issue here,

I stand corrected. I read too much into your statements and I apologize for my mistake.

As per this post, there is 9 hrs 11 mins left and the votes are:
Noble: 1
Prince: 5
Monarch: 14
Emperor: 6

This means that more than 50% of the voters would like the Monarch option and that the two nearest other options are around equally matched. Unless something drastic happens, we will be playing Monarch :king:. Bring on the cakewalk guys ;)

Any :bts: game can be a disaster, and any can be a triumph. The biggest factor by far is the overall map, including resources and opponents. We give the map script hints at what we want, but the RNG is very much in control. Then we must take the game we're given and play it according to the environment. The things which might cause us to not play according to what we're given are things that we can control, if we're willing to adapt.

Any demogame can fail, and any can be a timeless wonder. The factor which controls this is the interpersonal dynamic. Players will clash over policy, it's human nature. Whenever there is a policy clash, someone will "win" and someone will "lose". After the decision is made, the parties need to respect that decision and move on.

The reason we discuss rules at the beginning of a new game is to allow them to adjust to the lessons learned from the past games, and to the preferred play style of the current set of players. Clearly we can choose to start that discussion with the same rules, and if the players at that time wish we can choose to keep the same rules. Sometimes, like in this game and in Civ3DG6 & 7 we decide to start with something completely different. But I think we only need to consider that issue when it comes up.

Bring on the cakewalk guys ;)

This will not neccesarily be a cakewalk as our starting position an other factors can have as much impact as +1/-1 difficulty level, occasionaly more. Where we start and what our resources are can make this game easy or diffiucult.


On the early discussion on restarting. I am very much against this as it is more relaistic to play with a real fear of failure in your heart. If we die, we die and we start a completley new game.

This will not neccesarily be a cakewalk as our starting position an other factors can have as much impact as +1/-1 difficulty level, occasionaly more. Where we start and what our resources are can make this game easy or diffiucult.


On the early discussion on restarting. I am very much against this as it is more relaistic to play with a real fear of failure in your heart. If we die, we die and we start a completley new game.

Absolutely!

This will not neccesarily be a cakewalk as our starting position an other factors can have as much impact as +1/-1 difficulty level, occasionaly more. Where we start and what our resources are can make this game easy or diffiucult.


On the early discussion on restarting. I am very much against this as it is more relaistic to play with a real fear of failure in your heart. If we die, we die and we start a completley new game.

I agree to this. Let us try with our best efforts, and take it from there. I was merely hinting I was not keen on a Traditional set-up ever again. Civics need to be included in the election system due to the new nature of CIV4 BTS.

I was kind of joking at the many Princes. I have proved arguments in the former threads and this thread is not to be polluted by that, sorry. :mischief:

Voted for Monarch since it's one difficulty level above my normal one.

Same here, and I probably should be pushing myself harder on my own games anyway...

Agreed. If we fail, we fail. *shrug* We look back at what happened, decide what worked and what didn't and start a new game.

The Tribal Council Faction, however, does not believe that we will fail, and consider such discussions before we even start as somewhat defeatist! Thus, we will focus on our success as a nation!

-- Ravensfire

Just b/c you don't prepare for the future doesn't mean it won't happen. It just means you're unprepared. ;)

Ahh, but I AM prepared. Read the first sentance you quoted, and you'll see that I've got a plan. (Mmm, and quite a cunning plan indeed!)

-- Ravensfire

Completely offtopic, nice sig Ravensfire :p

Anyone keen on repolling this one too? :) Please do so now, because we got an election starting today. :)


Seems monarch won this one, proving the poll was needed.