Chapter 1: Awn of an Ynasty

I've heard it said by players far better than I that, below a certain level (Monarch or Emperor is often cited), you simply should not build defensive units. . . nothing but offensive ones. I have decided to put that theory to the test. In this game, the only military units I will build will be offensive ones. Hence the title: No D. :D

For clarity, here's the exact variant rule:
I may never build any defensive units, unless its attack value currently exceeds all other units available to me. A "defensive unit" is defined, for purposes of this game, as any land combat unit whose defensive value exceeds its offensive value. The only exception to this rule is when a defensive unit is also the unit with the highest attack value. Once a unit with an equal or higher attack value is available, I must immediately quit building the unit whose defense exceeds its offense and begin disbanding them. I am not required to disband all of them at once, and I am allowed to move them to my own cities to reclaim their shields. Artillery, aircraft, and watercraft are expressly excluded from the definition of a "defensive" unit.

I've chosen the Chinese for this adventure, thinking that it will be immensely helpful to have early archers and industrious workers. Besides, you just gotta love the Rider!

The Statistics:
Version: Civ III Conquests
Level: Monarch
Civ: China
Victory Conditions Allowed: All
Victory Condition On: Domination, SS, Diplo, Conquest, Cultural
Opponents: Random
Barbarians: Restless
Scientific Great Leaders: On
Land mass: Continents
Water: 70%
Map size: Standard
Age: 4 Billion
Climate: Normal
Temperature: Temperate

And here is the beginning:

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6260/01beginningscp8.jpg

Not too bad. Fresh water, a lux, a BG and forests. As I'm not standing on a BG, I plant Beijing on the spot, start a warrior and send my worker to the BG. I don't know just how war-heavy this is going to be, but my variant does not automatically demand war, so I start with Alphabet. I'll probably shoot for the Republic slingshot.

I find a goody hut just outside Beijing's borders, but the first expansion does nothing more than disturb 3 angry warriors. They don't bother me much. In fact, in 2800 BC, they allow 1 of my 2 first veteran archers to reach elite.

And in 2470, I discover that the Chinese people aren't alone on this planet. Enter Theodora:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/858/02theodorags2.jpg

I also see a green border to my east that looks like either Japan or the Celts, but I don't figure out who it is until 2350 BC:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4171/03brennuskd0.jpg

Here's the trade situation:
Brennus is up BW, Pots and CB, has 60 gold and is down Alpha and Masonry.
Theodora is up BW and CB and has 10 gold. Down nothing.

So I really need to get Pots and Brennus' 60 gold. Then I can trade pots to Theodora, don'cha think?

Hmm, looks like Brennus will pretty much turn his pockets inside out for Masonry and Alpha. I take it.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3654/04brennustradeaa1.jpg

Unfortunately, right after the trade, I also discover that he's up Mysticism, too. . . .

In 2110 BC, the Celts begin the Pyramids. I know that they're already at least one town up on me, so they've got some good ground to work with. Here's hoping they finish those Pyramids just in time to make a donation to my empire. :beer:

By 1990 BC, I am, at the very least, the wealthiest nation in the world:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2515/05gibbonya7.jpg

And now I know most of my opponents . . .

In 1725, Writing comes in. I discover that Theo already has it, so I opt not to go for the Republic slingshot. I will, however, go for the Philosophy slingshot. I suspect, unfortunately, that my expansion may not have been rapid enough to pull it off, though. The Dutch are out there, and they always seem to research pretty quickly in my games.

In that same year, I also establish an embassy in Entremont.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9977/06entremontrd1.jpg

I'll establish an embassy with Theo soon enough, but for now, I need the gold for a hard burn towards Philosophy.

You know, I've always like having Warrior Code early. I have small packs of archers farming barbs right now and, at restless and 25 gold a pop, the barbs are making a nice little supplement to my income.

In 1550 BC, Theodora builds an embassy in Beijing, robbing me of my free look! :gripe:

IN 1475 BC, I succeed in getting the Philosophy slingshot and take Maps as my free tech. It was the most expensive thing available to me.

In 1350, I discover that Brennus has IW. Oh, crap! Now I've got to deal with those red-headed, pajama-wearing pain-in-the-hineys! I don't have enough to trade him out of IW, but I can still get The Wheel and 96 gold for Philosophy. Well, that's a start. As is my usual, I promptly turn around and trade Philo to Theo for Mysticism, just to keep Brennus from being able to trade it around.

No clue as to whether I've got Iron, but, unlike The Unluckiest Lucky Start, at least horses aren't far.
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/8951/07horsesjp1.jpg

1275 BC - Germans complete The Colossus & the Byzantines switch to the Pyramids.

And in 1250 BC, I buy my first slave from Brennus. It cost me 110 gold, not unusual, but this an earlier buy than I usually get to make.

In 1025, I discover CoL. Brennus won't take it for IW, but Theodora will not only take it, she'll throw in 100 gold!

Turns out that I'm not exactly sitting on iron, but it's not too far away, either.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7158/08horssesirongp1.jpg

Looks like I need to expand North, eh?

Anyway, in 975, I get the following invitation to go kick down some doors.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/276/09pyramidsdonefq7.jpg

I just have to try to do it before the Celts get those pigstickers built. Fortunately, when I open the trade window, I see this:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4323/10brennusnoironwo2.jpg

And In 730 BC, the game is afoot!

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6729/11firstwarbrennusjf5.jpg

The war goes until 590 BC, when I get this:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1638/12firstleaderlb4.jpg

Oh, and I just got my first Swords, too . . . I guess the First Sword Army is just about to be born.

Wish me luck! Questions, comments and unsolicited advice are welcome.

Yay! Another story from aabraxan :)

GL against the celts.

Yeah killem all & get those free granaries... just hope they dont get Iron ... :evil:

I'll definitely be watching this with interest. As Sun Tzu (Who is also Chinese) said, "Offense is the Best Defense."

Chapter 2: The Siege of Entremont

570 BC:
The Celts send their warriors to rob me of my latest prize (MGL), and succeed in killing off one of my archers. That's the bad news. The good news is that they also succeed in promoting a second one. I send the archers back to heal and the MGL to form an army.

I notice that Brennus is already willing to talk, so in 530 BC, I call him to the negotiating table. My advisor says he'll be insulted by a straight up peace treaty, so I ask him what he wants.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/310/01brennuspeaceofferwa8.jpg

:lol::rotfl::lol:

Yeah, right. I'll get right on that.

In 530, I also learn that the Celts have started the ToA. Never build it myself, but I wouldn't mind having it, if I can capture it.

490 BC:
Theodora's people complete the Great Lighthouse.

And in 470 BC, my archers once again serve me well:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2622/02secondleaderfz4.jpg

Apparently, the Dutch have ivory . . .

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3964/03dutchsoznz0.jpg

In 430 BC, Sun Tzu, my last leader arrives in Beijing. I use him (appropriately, I think) to build the Heroic Epic. Richborough falls the same year. The First Sword Army is slowly, but surely, making its way to Entremont. Owning the Pyramids would be a great help to my people.

In the winter of 430, Brennus approaches me for peace. I'm not sure if this is all he'll give, but it looks like his tune has changed a bit.

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6053/04brennuspeaceoffer2ht7.jpg

Shortly thereafter,

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5890/05heroidepicnj4.jpg

Sadly, I leave Shanghai underdefended and in ~390 BC, it is captured by 2 horsemen. Sure enough, the Celts get to pop-rush before my turn again and I have to recapture it from 2 horsemen and a spear. . . No, I'm absolutely certain that they didn't walk a spear in.

In 230 BC, The Republic finally comes in. I love being first to a tech:

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/5518/06theodorarepubliccm9.jpg

The real problem with fighting Brennus is that it seems like he can pop-rush units just about as fast as I can kill them. My First Sword army has been at their gates for ages and, as it turns out would remain there until 130 BC:
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6351/07entremontev3.jpg

At long last, the Pyramids are mine! And now for some peace negotiations.

I can live with this, don't you think?
http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/4350/08celticpeacepk0.jpg

Another good one. It will be interesting to watch you unfold this one. :cowboy:

I hear having all offensive units keeps the AI from declaring war. ;)

I'll be watching this story closely.

I hear having all offensive units keeps the AI from declaring war. ;)

It apparently does not keep me from declaring war on the AI, however.

Glad you're all here.

Will be following with interest.

Great to have a new Story that looks as if it'll last.

The Civ III story forums have been a bit slow lately, looking forward to more:goodjob:

:clap: Oh, good! Another tale by Aabraxan. Posting to subscribe. :D

So, does your "no defensive units" mean you cannot have infantry when you have cavs...both at attack 6? Ouch!!! It's a very long time between cavs and tanks.

Yes, it does. I thought long and hard about the Infantry issue. I thought about allowing myself to build defensive units with an attack value "as high or higher" than my best attacker, but that seemed to defeat the purpose of the variant. If, for some reason, I cannot build cavs, I would be allowed to build Infantry, as Infantry would be the unit with the highest attack value. But as long as I can build cavs, no Infantry. Besides the "Infantry-artillery-cavalry" combination wouldn't be much of a variant, given that I use that combination in almost every game. Guess I'll have to protect my artillery with MDI, LBs, and Cavs. :eek:

check the spelling of your thread title cause it is gibberish
Check out the first paragraph.
. . . . I've heard it said by players far better than I that, below a certain level (Monarch or Emperor is often cited), you simply should not build defensive units. . . nothing but offensive ones. I have decided to put that theory to the test. In this game, the only military units I will build will be offensive ones. Hence the title: No D. . . . .
Does it make sense yet?

Unscratched foot, is it your goal to insult everyone on the forums??

When you are as good a player as Aabraxan is, it is fun to try out new variants. Haven't you ever tried 5CC, OBC, no culture, ICS, etc? These new variants provide new styles of gameplay and challenges you have yet to experience.

He is testing and documenting whether no defense is a successful variant.

Last, surely you've heard the phrase, "Team, we need to step up the D!" D is just a shortened form of defense, like Cell is a shortened form of cellular.

All in all, if you don't like something, there is no need to comment.

EDIT: Also, you really could learn how to quote a paragraph rather than a post/

No. D is not a word. Defense is. I think the whole concept of restricting yourself is just an expression of extreme boredom. Why don't you find a new game to play that's fresh and exciting?

I've had enough of you. Reported to the mods for unbelievable amounts of trolling. :gripe:

I've had enough of you. Reported to the mods for unbelievable amounts of trolling. :gripe:

Thanks for the report.

Is he finally gone?

This is the worst Game EVER!!!



................

APRIL FOOLS! :)

Good Story tho :goodjob:

Chapter 3: A Time for Swords

I haven't had much time to play lately, but I've been thinking about this game a lot. It's clear that, without defensive units, this game could quickly devolve into a hyperaggressive bloodbath . . . Oh, well, ya gotta hate that. :rolleyes:

Anyway, as of 130 BC, I've got tech parity, my neighbors are broke and a I've granary in every town. I'd say now's the time for Rapid Expansion and building swords.

I notice that the Celts are sending horses out with their settlers. As far as I can tell, they still haven't hooked up that iron. If I'm lucky, this peace treaty will end before they do.

In 70 BC, I get reports of a massive uprising near Shanghai.

In 10 AD, I get the report that the Germans have Completed the Temple of Artemis. Great . . . an aggressive cultural powerhouse. Just what I needed. It also means that the Byzantines cascade to the Great Wall. I will need to take them down a peg before that gets built. Or capture it, I guess. UNfortunately, there's a lot of jungle and Byz territory between me and Constantinople, where it's under construction.

Then again, maybe not:

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5708/01greatpersianwallme3.jpg

So now Theodora opts for the Hanging Gardens.

In 50 AD, I enter the Middle Ages and begin Feudalism. That's also when:

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4212/02greatdutchlibrarysa9.jpg

By 70 AD, I think my economy is ready for the Switch to Republic, so my civilization descends into anarchy! (5 Turns)

At this point, I realize that I've also placed a couple of cities fairly poorly, so I'm going to abandon and resettle them. Xinjan, in particular, is places in such a way that it leaves a 4-tile hole in the middle of my empire. Can't have that.

Right as I'm about to come out of Anarchy, I get some bad, bad news.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5155/03entremontdeposedqr8.jpg

The Celts grow fast enough, just from being Agri. I don't really need them being agri and having a free granary in every city, now do I? Fortunately, the PT is just about up. With 5 turns left, it's time to start gathering the troops.

Unfortunately, my economy has taken the usual hit when I shift to Republic, so science is way down and I'm still losing gold. I wake up lots of troops and send them towards the Celtic Front. I still own Gergovia, but it's way behind enemy lines. Just so's I don't have to worry about losing it (& increasing WW), I abandon it in 270 AD.

In 280 AD, my treasury is suffering. I have too many units and only one lux. Speaking of too many units, I decide to go use some of them:

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/97/04secondcelticwarxc9.jpg

I call up Theo to discuss an alliance and discover that she has Feudalism! This game just got tougher.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6817/05theohasfeudalismfr4.jpg

Clearly, I need to take this opportunity to take Brennus out of the picture. Unfortunately, Theo won't even discuss an alliance. Early in the war (right after I take the first town, Agedincum, I think), I get a little more luck.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/1484/06thirdleaderjr2.jpg

In 340 AD, Entremont once again falls:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4838/07entremontretakenym1.jpg

If It didn't contain the Pyramids, I'd burn it to the ground. Only when a city contains a really powerful wonder do I risk a second flip.

I was unable to get a screenshot, but in ~360 AD, I discovered that the Celts had finally hooked up that iron. Unfortunately, I discovered this because a Gallic Swordsman came out of the fog and killed one of my swords.

And in 390 AD . . . *sigh*

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/1923/08entremontreflipstx0.jpg

Fortunately, the First Sword Army is on an adjacent tile.
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/1430/09entremontretakenagainog1.jpg
Unfortunately, I really mess up and leave the Second Sword Army, with 1 HP, out in the open and it's killed by a Celtic Horse. This hasn't been the smartest war I've fought. Having lost a sword army, I think it's time to put this down until my cranial rectitis goes away.

Here's the empire:

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6985/10empireqt5.jpg

Speaking of Variants, here are a few more suggestions for variants-

1) A variant where you can build ONLY military units

2) A variant where you cant change governments

So are you going to go after Entremont with the Pyramids and try to keep it for the third time? Losing it twice had to really hurt. :(

The Pyramids are simply too powerful not to keep, especially since I'm not agri. I certainly cannot afford to let the Celts keep them. Unfortunately, I played pretty poorly in the last update, so it was a long, expensive war and, as a result, I probably will not succeed in eliminating the Celts this time around. They've spread to the south, so it will take at least one more war to accomplish. What I have got to do, though, is eliminate any Celtic towns with borders touching those of Entremont. You know . . . adjust their cultural borders for them.

Edit: Welcome to the Awn of an Ynasty, Rodent.

Rather a lot of "Luck" happening there; both good and bad.

Ouch. Not one, but two flips. Ouch.

Yeah, that was a painful turnset. We'll just have to see if I can recover in time to take down Theodora. She's got Feudalism . . . :cringe:

@darski -- BTW, nice new avatar.

Very intriguing. I would not like to be a citizen of Entremont! Conquered. Reconquered. Flipped. You name it.

I know some games look different than others, but what are those blackish buildings next to some of your cities?

Very intriguing. I would not like to be a citizen of Entremont! Conquered. Reconquered. Flipped. You name it.

I know some games look different than others, but what are those blackish buildings next to some of your cities?
Yeah, and unless I can eliminate those Celtic cities near Entremont, I feel certain that it will flip again. Here's what I don't know, and maybe someone can enlighten me: If city loses one pop every time it's recaptured, it won't be long before it's down to pop 1, particularly since I put it on a starvation diet every time I recapture. What happens if it gets to size 1 and I have to recapture? It's got 2 Great Wonders and I'm pretty sure that its borders have expanded at least once. It won't autoraze, will it? Will it simply not lose that last pop point?

Those blackish buildings are my mines, by the way. If I were to post a zoomed in screenshot, they'd look like wooden towers.

No, it won't autoraze. My understanding is that any town/city which has ever accumulated at least 10 culture points will endure, even at pop 1.

Chapter 4: The Coming of the Swords

It's 400 AD when I return to this game. The last set was nigh-catastrophic. Let's see where we are:

18 Cities (1st)
14 slaves
0 native workers (rejoined them to reduce costs, but I'm going to need some)
21 Swords
4 Cats
3 Settlers
3 Horses
1 Army
207 gold
Feudalism in 17 @ +0 gpt

In 410 AD, I finally get Entremont down to size one after cash-rushing a worker and starving a citizen down.

In 410, the Celts request an audience. I see what he's got to say, but I really, really need to kill off anything neighboring Entremont if I have any hope of keeping the Pyramids.

In 420 I realize that I goofed by trying to build a settler out of Macao. I don't want to abandon the city, so I switch to to a sword to avoid either: (1) abandoning the city; or (2) wasting the 30 shields I've invested. Guess it'll just have to be a Regular. Oh, well, I've got some barbs bothering my southern border that I can use to promote him.

In 530 AD, as I'm attacking Alesia, events turn my way just a little.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7206/01fourthleaderwf7.jpg

By 550 AD, I've learned that Theo is up Feudalism, Engineering and Monarchy. Ordinarily, I wouldn't care about Monarchy, but my poorly-played last set is killing me with WW as a Republic. I'm considering a switch to Monarchy, or maybe the Hanging Gardens, but I can't really do either until I push the Celts off the eastern edge of the continent.

By 600 AD, I am close to that goal. It's been a long, hard war and my research rate has been awful. However, once I knock off Verulanium, I will have reduced the Celts harmlessness and cleared up enough room for me to expand some more. Unfortunately, that left the Byzantines in a position to peacefully build up. The Middle Ages will be tough.

In 630 AD, I make contact with Persia and India. The tech race is not pretty.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/9161/02persianotprettyaf1.jpg

Here's the tech picture overall:

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6748/02techlevelsjf0.jpg

On the other hand, I get my fifth MGL in 640 AD. Time to build the FP, methinks.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/6012/03fifthleaderoe7.jpg

I build the FP using General Tso, but have no luck fishing another leader, at least not before 650 AD, when I make peace with Brennus . . . a-gain.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7306/04brennuspeaceagainnw6.jpg

I can't allow the tech lead to widen like this, so I go shopping.

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/6617/05ghandimacesio9.jpg

I set my sights on Engineering, but only on Lone Scientist. As I just bought Feudalism, I'll need my gold for upgrades. I know that spending less on science won't help the tech situation, but I hope that maces will. :D

At the close of 650 AD, here's how the empire looks:

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/3532/06empirewd8.jpg

The Age of Swords has passed. It's time to expand and move to maces. All in all, though, my Swordsmen served me well.

Mine Eyes have seen the Glory
Of the Coming of the Swords
They have trampled through the fields
Where Celtic grapes of wrath are stored

They have trampled through the fields
Where Celtic grapes of wrath are stored
Me thinks you need to grow a crop of scientists, rather than cultivating vineyards. :p

This looks like it will be a hard-fought game. Good luck!

I most definitely need to improve my outlook on science, but when I left off, I had used a leader to build the FP out on that NE peninsula near Entremont. It's my hope that I can turn that area into a productive semi-core. I'll continue expanding in all directions, but that will fill up first. Then I'll start laying out science farms to the SW, down towards Theo.

I'd have put the FP in Entremont itself, to help further guard against it flipping, but that's just me....

That probably would have been a good idea. I was busy leader-fishing and may have gotten into too much of a hurry. I wanted to burn that leader, get the FP ready and fish for another MGL. At any rate, nobody's cultural borders touch those of Entremont any more and the Celts aren't long for this world, so I think it will work out.
:please:

lurkers comment:ill be following this one,posting to subscribe

also,how do u get so many MGL's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i usually only get 1 in a game and i have to use the military academy to load up on armies,ur really lucky

I have been unusually lucky with MGLs this game. I can't think of another game where I bagged 5 before leaving the AA. At any rate, all I've done is build the Heroic Epic and leader-fish where possible.

Chapter 5: Maces on the March

650 AD:

In 650 AD, I made peace with Brennus and set about the task of filling the areas he had so graciously "vacated." :D I'm behind in tech, had to empty my pockets to get Feudalism, but I'm hoping that MDI pay off.

In 700 AD, I get a cultural expansion around Xinjian. It scares me, as I am unused to this event. I go in, thinking to sell whatever temple I may have inadvertently built. On investigation, I am reminded that I built the FP in Xianjian. :lol:

Looking to the South, there's an awful lot of jungle and mountains between me and Theo. Lotsa cats are about to become markets. By 710 AD, I've built up to about a dozen MDI's that are free to join the attack group.

In 720 AD, I make contact with the Dutch who, like everyone else, is up Lit and Engineering. I'm making a minimum run on engineering, using the gold to upgrade swords to MDI.

IN 730 AD, Henry of the Portugese makes an appearance. He's willing to trade Lit for The Republic. While I'm at it, I relieve him of 86 gold and 4 gpt. Republic may be worth more than that, but there's no one else to sell it to.

In 760 AD, the Byzantines begin Leonardo's Workshop.

I give a Byzantine archer the boot order, but Theo agrees to withrdraw him rather than declare . . . drat.

A quick visit to my Military advisor reveals that compared to:

Persia - Monarchy: average
Celts - Republic: strong
Portugal - Feudalism: strong
Netherlands - Monarchy: strong
India - Republic: strong
Byzantines - Republic: strong.

In 800 AD, I get this:
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/184/01indianknightstemplarxl3.jpg

So Chivalry's been learned. I've been giving Theo the boot order on that one archer every time she steps in my territory, but for decades now, she's just refused to DOW me. I give her one last boot order and she decides to grant my fondest birthday wish:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7590/02theodowws6.jpg

I guess it's time to go spank Theo and take this continent. I consider the possibility of allying with Brennus, but he'd be useless and, besides, there are only 4 turns left of peace with him. :mischief:

In 810 AD, I finally make contact with the Germans, the last AI in the game.

810 AD:
Ancyra falls
The Persians start Sun Tzu's
The Persians start the Sistine Chapel

820 AD:
The Indians begin Sun Tzu's

840 AD:
The Indians begin Sun Tzu's again.
Vidin falls

850 AD:
PT with Brennus expires. DOW.
Burdigala falls.

850 AD:
India begins Sun Tzu's . . . again.
The other Celtic city falls.
The Celts are gone.

In 860, I go ahead and buy Engineering from the Dutch for a lump sum 479 gold payment. My empire is finally, finally beginning to recover from the shift to Republic and I set my sights on Invention. I'll pick up Monotheism and stuff eventually, but it doesn't have to be right now.

870 AD:
Guess who starts Sun's again. . . . Ghandi, the first step is admitting that you have a problem.

Over the past century or so, something is finally dawning on me. I was considering where to put my science farms, and the two candidates were: (1) former Celtic lands; or (2) future former Byzantine lands. I've been trying to work out a way around this, but until electricity, there's not going to be any irrigation of Celtic lands. I've marked out a series of hills and mountains and they completely prevent me from irrigating the formerly-Celtic cows to the east of the red lines. It's a real shame, too, because I can see 3 cows there.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/1815/04noscienceheremt5.jpg

880 AD:
A Byz town falls, but I forgot to note the name.

By the end of 890, Theo's willing to give me one piddlin' city for peace, but I think I need to hurt her some more.

900 AD:
The Persians complete Leo's at Pasargadae.
The Indians are building Sun Tzu's. :sigh:

I had sent one stack after the Celts and one after the Byzantines. Unfortunately, MDI defend just like spears and after some losses (not that many, but more than I would have liked), I merge the two stacks. Now my attack stack looks like this:

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/5258/05newstackiw1.jpg

910 AD:
Oh, dear God in heaven, let the pain end . . . The Indians are building Sun Tzu's Art of War again.

In 930, I go ahead and mortage my economy, yet again, paying 350 gold and 28 gpt to the Dutch for Gunpowder. I won't get any units out of it, but at least I'll know where the salt is.

Turns out that I have saltpeter right by Canton, already hooked up. Won't do me any good right now, though.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9324/06cantonsaltpeterhc4.jpg

950 AD:
The Dutch and Indians are building the Sistine Chapel.

And in 950 AD, the Dutch pull the rug out from under the Indians:

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5262/07dutchartofwarye0.jpg

Oh, me! Oh, my! Whatever shall the Indians build now?

Oh, yeah. They switch to the Sistine Chapel. :rolleyes:

Interestingly, despite all the advice not to build defensive units below whatever level, I'm finding warfare slightly more difficult than my standard game. I had half expected it to be easier. I never build very many defensive units, but I've been reminded on more than one occasion during this game that MDI defend just like spears. A pike or two in the middle of the MDI stack goes a fair ways towards keeping the stack safe. OTOH, part of my problem may be my warmongering skills. Perhaps this game will help me sharpen those skills a bit.

In 960 AD, the Byzantines come to talk peace. Unfortunately, they won't offer even a single city, nor a tech. They only have 33 gold, but hurting them is worth more than 33 gold to me. I decline peace and, in response, they promptly send most of the defenders out of Iconium, immediately next to which my stack stands . . .

970 AD:
Iconium falls.

In 980 AD, Beijing 2 is founded. That means I've run through the city list twice already. Gonna be a bunch of cities on my continent. I haven't even started filling Byzantine lands yet.

I played to 1000 AD, which seems like a pretty good stopping place. I almost succumbed to Just One More Turn Syndrome, but managed to catch myself. I'm still behind technologically, but the Byzantines aren't putting up much of a fight. I'll probably need to make peace once before I push them off of this continent, but their pikes aren't standing up to my sword armies or my maces very well, even without trebs. Now that I've cleared that jungle of Byzantine settlements, I can begin settling it myself, roading and moving trebs down.

Anyway, here's the latest on the empire:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/128/08empireqx6.jpg

i'm surprised u didnt get another leader lol

Oh look! Theodora has so nicely moved aside to let your cities get founded! How nice!

Yeah, she was accommodating like that. :mischief:

Chapter 6: Not enough action to merit a title.

1000 AD:

India & the Netherlands sign an alliance vs. Persia. That's good for me, as Persia is really the tech powerhouse so far.
The Dutch begin the Sistine Chapel.

Theodora keeps sending her Dromons to bombard Eboracum, but has not yet sent enough to actually kill a unit. Every so often, they even stop close enough that I get to throw rocks at 'em.

1010 AD:
Portugal & India sign an alliance vs. Persia.

In 1020, I take another Byzantine town, but my sword army is badly wounded in attacking a pike. I know that the AI rarely attacks an army, but I've already lost one army in this game. I decide that the time has come to make peace with Theodora. That way, I can continue expanding into the now-vacant land to my south and organize my forces for another push after the PT runs out.

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/8656/01theopeaceqz8.jpg

Henry has finally gotten some gold in his hands, so I sell him Monarchy for 182 gold, emptying his pocketbook. Seems like a pittance for Monarchy, but there are no other buyers and I don't want him buying from someone else.

I spend some money building embassies. What I see in the Dutch capital is a little scary. Look at how well William improved all his tiles!

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5892/02amserdamsx8.jpg

By comparison, look at how much food the Persians are wasting at Persepolis! :nono:

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1503/03persepolishn5.jpg

I decide to go ahead and purchase Chivalry. First I build embassies everywhere, then begin the haggling. This is what I end up with.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7133/04ghandichivalryll5.jpg

I don't know that I'll have a whole lotta dough to upgrade horses to Riders, but I'll figure something out. On the upside, I HAVE RIDERS! Time to start planning my GA.

The decades immediately following making peace with Theo are relatively uneventful. Ghandi approached me for an alliance against Xerxes, but I declined, just because I've read that it's more advantageous to trade on my turn, rather than the AI's turn. So on my next turn, I go see Ghandi:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1513/05ghandialliancepersiawo2.jpg

Looks like everyone's ganging up on poor Xerxes. Here's the overall state of diplomacy.

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/628/06diplomacy1040adcx8.jpg

And in 1060 AD, the First Rider is finally trained:

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/9394/07firstriderpf1.jpg

(In all honesty, though, that was the same year that the second, third and fourth Riders are trained. I also go about upgrading some horses.)

I keep pushing south and by 1110 AD, I've expanded down into the jungle and hit what I think of as the corruption line. I've marked in the screenshow below with a red line. It's the point beyond which I can pretty well count on every city being 90% corrupt. As you can see in the screenshot below, I've had my forces spread out and I've been herding Byzantine forces to the south in front of my expansion. Now, with ~10 turns left in the PT & my armies fully healed, it's time to gather them back into stacks for another push into Byzantine territory. Unfortunately, I've still only got 2 luxes (furs & wines), but I've got workers on the way to hook up the dyes.

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/7535/08southernexpansionei9.jpg


And by the way, just so you have an idea of where the Byzantine core is, Constantinople is circled in yellow on the minimap. So I'll have to clear a few cities to the west, but most of the war will be directed to pushing due south.

In 1180, I'm notified that the Germans have begun Cope's, so that tells me that I'm several techs behind in the upper part of the tree. I've been feeling really cheap with respect to Theology, but I guess it's time to bite the bullet and buy it.

In 1200 AD, I've settled most of the jungle. I'm very, very grateful for industrious workers and lots of slaves, by 1200, I have 52 cities, 31 workers and 38 slaves. My troops are almost in position for a run down Theo's eastern coast and I've got a galley mapping out the coast to give me a better idea of what she's done with the landscaping.

But the war will have to wait for the next installment.

Ah, Riders are always such a lovely sight for sore eyes!!! It's almost like getting cavalry wayyyy ahead of anyone else...at least for the time in which they show up. :clap:

I really like Riders, but I probably don't get as much use out of them as I could, because I tend to beeline cavalry. Those 2 additional attack points go a long way.

Chapter 7: Riders on the Storm

By 1230 AD, I still haven't attacked, but, at long last, my PT with Theo has run out. Frankly, I feel like I'm "behind schedule" on this one. Ordinarily, I'd have much more of my continent under my control by now. I think that's due more to some poorly-played early turns than to the variant, though.

By 1250, my alliance vs. Persia has ended & Xerxes pays me 32 gold for peace (all he's got), in spite of the fact that I've never sent a single troop overseas. In spite of the newborn status of peace with the Persians, Ghandi approaches me in 1255, asking for another alliance against them. Immediately thereafter, I understand why Ghandi's so anxious for an alliance against Xerxes.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9522/01ghandigoneqh1.jpg

Interestingly, the moment before Ghandi appears, I was one turn out from Metallurgy. The moment he was destroyed, Metallurgy went to 2 turns. :gripe:

Looking at the world map, the Persians are trying hard to become a runaway. Between that fact and the fact that I'm still trailing on the top half of the Middle Ages tech tree, I decide to trade Metallurgy to the Dutch. They'll give me Education and 7 gold. Hopefully, cannons will help the Dutch survive a little better, considering that the AI all use artillery equally poorly. Once that's done, I can see that I'm down Music and Astro to the Germans, Persians and the Dutch. Neither the Portugese nor the Byzantines have either. I'm not willing to mortgage my economy for either of those, at least not yet.

In 1265 AD, I finally get tired of making preparations:

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/4957/02theodow1265adhb1.jpg

And in 1280, one of Theo's MDI attacks one of my valiant Riders, triggering my GA. I would have preferred to trigger it closer to Military Tradition (now ~3 turns out), just to better time the Military Academy, but I'll take what I can. I swap Beijing to a university, which should work for a MA prebuild.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/364/03goldenagemx0.jpg

In 1290, Theodora, Mistress of Masterful Tactics, sends a 1-HP MDI across a river and up a hill to attack a wounded 2-HP MDI of mine. Maybe the next one will work out better for her.

In 1300, I discover Military Tradition, upgrade a few Riders to Cavs and start the Military Academy. Then I trade MT to the Dutch for Banking, Astronomy, 50 gold and 12 gpt. Then I trade it to the Persians for Music Theory, 12 gold and 35 gpt. One more turn and I sell it to Bismarck for 5 gold and 20 gpt. At long last, I now have tech parity once again. I also have considerably more gold than anyone else.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/3669/04techstatusqg1.jpg

Unfortunately, battles don't go particularly well and by 1315, I'm running 40% on the lux slider. Given that I've only got 3 luxes, that's not a tremendous surprise. However, by that time, I'm approaching the Byzantine core and can't bring myself to make peace. Not just yet. I'm certain that I will be forced to before eradicating the Byzantines, but now that I have cavs, I'm in a position to put them on death watch for the next offensive.

When I finally discover Physics in 1320, I immediately sell it to Persia. It's not a great deal, but it's more than anyone else has, and enough to fuel my own research for a bit.
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2651/05physicssoldpersiacs6.jpg

Naturally, as soon as I've sold Physics to Persia, I sell it to anyone who can afford it.

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/9369/06physicssolddutchjc0.jpg

In 1325, my sixth MGL arrives just in time to create the First Cavalry Army

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1214/07sixthleaderlt8.jpg
I also discover around this time that the Dutch and the Germans have decided to send settlers, now that a little land has opened up.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4228/08interlopersyk3.jpg

Anyway, I'll close Chapter 7 here. Here's the obligatory shot of the empire.
http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/4909/09empireok6.jpg

And, of course, the front lines:

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3993/10frontlinesov7.jpg

Comments?

Nice moves at the trading table. I admit that I am envious of anyone who can broker multiple trades.

Is it worth it to get some turns of peace on your continent? I know, I know... the people have spoken -> loudly :lol:

What are you going to do about those nasty settler thingys?

Nice moves at the trading table. I admit that I am envious of anyone who can broker multiple trades.
I'm hardly a master trader, but I was able to pull back up to tech parity. Now that I've begun receiving gpt, rather than paying it, the AI's research should slow down and I hope to remain a seller of tech from here out.

Is it worth it to get some turns of peace on your continent? I know, I know... the people have spoken -> loudly :lol:
Worth it or not, I won't have much choice. I'm going to have to make peace with Theo at least once more. I don't think I'll be able to push her off of the continent without some very, very serious WW with the way things have gone.

What are you going to do about those nasty settler thingys?
The same thing I do every time, darski. Make war.

Your trading looks masterful to me, Aabra. I still tend to hoard my techs, rather than go for the gold to finance research. Game's looking great!!! :)

Chapter 8:

I've been thinking about this quite a bit and something has dawned on me. At Monarch, there are two key uses for defensive units: (1) Protecting artillery; and (2) securing a beachhead on the other continent. It seems to me that I could simplify this game tremendously by simply not invading the other continent. I could just fill up this one and see how fast I can launch the space shuttle. The question is whether I have the patience to do so.
In 1340, Xerxes starts Copernicus' Observatory. Also, I raze Iconium (Byzantine). Since I'm already running 50% on the lux slider, I decide that it's time for peace. Here's what I get out of Theo:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3685/01theopt1340adxh5.jpg

On the IBT thereafter, the Byzantines begin Cope's, as well.

1350 AD is a big year for the Empire. Beijing completes the Military Academy. Now I can either build armies or use them as prebuilds for other stuff. In 1350, I also complete Magnetism. Now to get out to the trading table to see what's available.

On the scientific front, I'm just a few turns from ToG by 1360, and have a University going as a prebuild going at Beijing for Newton's. Where I'm hurting, and have been all game, is in the luxuries department. I make the following deal with Xerxes:
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7613/02magnetismtopersiant8.jpg

That nets me 3 luxes, 2 more gpt and 70 gold (that you can't see in the picture). The only other civ that has luxes to spare is the Dutch. Unfortunately, once this trade is made, they won't even offer one lux for Magnetism. They will offer gold, though:

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/1863/03magnetismtonetherlandcs4.jpg

This lets me push down the lux slider to 10%. If it weren't for 1 or 2 select cities, I could push it to 0%, but I want the shields they're producing, rather than specialists.

And at the end of 1365, I'm 2 turns from ToG. I've only settled a few more towns, because I've run out of land. I'm trying to get some marsh cleared, but even when that's done, there just won't be much left to grab before the next war. Anyway, I'm short on time, but I want to get some turns posted, so I'm going to stop here. Hopefully, I'll get in some more turns soon.

At Monarch level, you can invade another continents with offensive troops, just have them in armies. Or invade with tanks. Another tip: invade the weakest civ on the other continent to get a good foothold, then with airfields send tons of troops there. Pretty soon you will win. Since this is not AW, you can divide and conquer.

True. I doubt I'll wait until tanks, but I'll just have to remember not to fully load my armies. I'm only 10 turns from the Pentagon, and I'll be limited by the space in galleons.

Interesting concept and good read.

:goodjob:

While you could win this game with the CSS Aabraxan, I think you would find it more satisfying to win by Conquest or Domination. Well, I would fnd it more satisfying, anyway. :D

You have proven that defensive units can be ignored in the Ancient and Middle Ages. Ignoring them runs some risks, as you point out, but it can be done.

What about the Industrial and Modern?

Thanks, CBob.

Looking ahead, I think the real challenge will be skipping Infantry. I almost never build rifles, so I won't miss them. But Infantry are a huge step up in defensive units, especially when you normally jump from Muskets. Cavs are great offensive units, but they defend just like pikes . . . except, I guess, they get to run away now and again.

I am still considering trying to win this one by SS, but it kinda seems like it defeats the original purpose of this variant. I think I need to see: What about the Industrial and Modern?

If you go far enough, you get the super unit that is equally good at offense or defense, the mighty Modern Armor (24/16/3). At that point, you can pretty much whoop anything except when defending against another MA. I'm betting that you can win long before that.

If the rest of this game takes the same pace as it has so far, I think we can expect to see at least a few Modern Armor. At Monarch level, I usually make it to tanks, and sometimes make it to MA. Then again, I usually own a continent by now, too. We'll just have to see how it goes.

Chapter 9: Fortune smiles.

1365 AD -- The Persians begin Smith's Trading Co.

In 1370, I move into the Industrial Age

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6299/01intoindusagefk6.jpg

And I get an SGL to boot! It's my first in several games.

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/5869/02confusciusaz2.jpg

Several civs have started Copernicus' Observatory, but I'm the only one who can start Newton's. As much as I hate to waste all the shields I've invested in the prebuild, I burn the SGL to grab Cope's at Beijing. I might still be able to grab Newton's. Even if I can't, the cascade will be fun to watch.

In 1375, Xerxes comes a-calling. He demands Wines.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4207/03persiansdemandwineta4.jpg

According to my military Advisor:

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8440/04militaryadvisortx0.jpg

Compared to Xerxes, I have an average military. That tells me that he really can't hurt me now. The AI is just too bad at naval invasions for him to be much of a threat. Besides, even if he tried to invade, he'd have to leave at least one defender per town at home. Nonetheless, I'm making ~100 gpt off of ol' Xerks, and I'd hate to lose that only 4 turns from Steam Power. I give in for now, but his time will come.

Also in 1375, my architects and builders, with a great deal of aid from Confuscius, complete:

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/7546/05copernicusobservatoryau0.jpg

That turns Beijing into a 100-bpt town. I don't ordinarily build Cope's or Newton's so this is a pleasant surprise. I swap the Pentagon at Canton for Newtons, with Newton's due in 9. Beijing starts on the Pentagon, due in 14.

And the cascase begins:

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/4749/06cascadehk5.jpg

I'm going to stop there, not because it's a particularly good stopping place, but because I'm pressed for time.

Nice catch on the SGL. I got several of them in my first games - veddy, veddy useful they are.

They're HUGE at the right times. Now that I've got Cope's, I've been hoarding Theory of Gravity, in the hopes of putting it in Beijing, as well.

if you manage to get Newton's as well in Bejing, it will become a 200-bpt town :eek: ?

I don't think so. I can't look at the game right now, but if Cope's boosted it to 100 bpt, then it's a base-50-bpt city and Newton's will add another 50, so I expect it to hit ~150 bpt. I played some turns last night and I'm ~10 turns from completing Newtons now that the Beijing area is railed.

150 for 1 city is still huge.

Care to post a save for us poor newbies?

Sure. It may be a couple of days, but I'll get one posted.

Edited to add: My science was probably pretty high when Beijing hit ~100 bpt. I played a few turns the other night and these danged peaceful buildup periods have left unit costs pretty high, so that's cut into the research budget.

OK. Got around to it faster than expected.

First, a screenshot of Beijing from 1380 AD, right after Cope's was built.
http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/2621/beijingcityviewxn7.jpg

And, of course, the save:

have followed some of your threads already. in fact they´re one of the reasons why i even registered here! :goodjob: very nice jobs done, congrats, and great writing.

ah... btw, and uttering my DOS (declaration of subscription :) )

Thanks, templar_x! Glad to have you aboard. This game isn't dead, but it's taking a short hiatus while I try to resuscitate Aabra02.

Nice job, Aabra! :goodjob:

Loving the intensity of the screenshots! :D

I wish I was good @ this game. I have a question, though. Do you know if it's possible to get GLs in the Vanilla Civ 3?

Do you know if it's possible to get GLs in the Vanilla Civ 3?
Military Great Leaders? Yes.

Scientific Great Leaders? No.

I wish I was good @ this game. I have a question, though. Do you know if it's possible to get GLs in the Vanilla Civ 3?
In Vanilla/Play The World (PTW) there are no Scientific Great Leaders (SGL). They show up in Conquests/Civ III Complete (C3C).

C3C is a combination of Vanilla/PTW/Conquests all packaged together in one install, all games fully patched. The install defaults to play Conquests. The others are available. General usage at the forum is that C3C = Conquest. C3C runs about $20 at Amazon. I've also seen it at Target and Frys for about the same price.

Short List of Great Leader Usage in Vanilla/PTW

Build an Army
Rush a city improvement (bank, university, harbor, etc.)
Rush a unit build (worker, settler, spear, etc.)
Rush a Small Wonder
Rush a Great Wonder


Short List of Military Great Leader Usage in Conquests/C3C

Build an Army
Rush a city improvement (bank, university, harbor, etc.)
Rush a unit build (worker, settler, spear, etc.)
Rush a Small Wonder


Short List of Scientific Great Leader Usage in Conquests/C3C

Rush a Great Wonder
Increase scientific output (which doesn't work)


In Vanilla/PTW SLs are much more powerful than C3C. Playing the Romans (MIL and COM traits) in Vanilla going for a Conquest victory, you could expect enough GLs to build every Great Wonder available.

Chapter 10: Another Byzantine War

1380 AD:
Having completed Cope's in Beijing, I take a look at where to build Newton's. It would be a bigger boost in Beijing, but it would also be a higher risk of getting caught in a cascade. Nonetheless, I go back to building it in Beijing. If I get caught in a cascade, I can always switch to an Army at Beijing, which I can't do at Canton. Canton goes back to the Pentagon.

Pentagon -- due in 9 at Canton.
Newton's -- due in 22 at Beijing.

Golden Age ends.

1385 AD
worker management has become a bit tedious. Just in case anyone's interested, it takes 21 industrious workers to clear jungle, road it and water it in one turn. I'm 3 turns out from steam and begin sending workers back to the Beijing/Canton area to begin railing my wonder cities.


1390 AD
Just sort of out of the blue, Persia decides to send some visitors into German territory.
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3345/01persianvisitorsingermys8.jpg

I check the F4 screen. Germany & Persian are at war. I guess I should get some settlers into the area, eh?

IBT
Had my settlers ready, but the German towns didn't autoraze. Drat.
Byzantines begin Magellan's.

By 1395, my specialist farms are beginning to mature.

In 1400, I am 1 turn from steam and here's the trade/tech situation.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9117/02trade1400adgc1.jpg

Steam Power comes in. Set my sights on Electricity, 6 turns out at -111 gpt.

In 1405, Bismarck goes the way of the dodo.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/3/03germanseliminatedty2.jpg

By the end of 1415, railing gangs around Beijing have cut the ETA on Newton's down to 11 turns. You gotta love rails!

Circa 1430, Electricity comes in. Unit support has gotten high again, so I'll need to DOW Theo as soon as this Peace Treaty ends in 2 turns. Sights set on ToE.

I've been hoarding Theory of Gravity, hoping to pick up Newton's. Out of curiosity, in 1435, I check the diplo screen. The Dutch will only offer Incense and 14 gold for ToG. They're getting close to it. I'm only 5 turns from Newton's, and can only hope that they finish another wonder and let everyone else waste a bunch of shields.

I also realize in 1435 that Amorium, which I got from the Byzantines, is 1 turn from completing a spear. Clearly, the Amorians have defied the will of the gods (as expressed in the variant rules, which are incorporated by reference, as though set forth word for word herein). I don't really want to defend Amorium anyway, as it's out on and island, so I abandon it.

In 1435, the Pentagon completes in Canton:

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/9946/04pentagondd0.jpg

1440 -- With 6 turns left in Medicine, I begin a palace prebuild in Canton (@ 18 net spt) for the ToE. I also move all units out of Theo's territory and move military units into position. War starts soon.

In 1445, I make the following deal with Theo. This is the Pre-War Deal. She only has 1 gold, so I'm not concerned about her upgrading a whole lotta trebs to cannons.
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2473/05theoprewardealec1.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/828/06theodow1445adrl7.jpg

1445:
Vidin falls
1 Byzantine source of horses successfully bombarded
Edessa falls
Ancyra falls
Septum falls

IBT:
Lose a frigate to a dromon :aargh:
Lose a cav to a knight :aargh:


1450:
Moving units into position

IBT:
Miscalculation leaves an eHorse open to attack & killed by a knight. Drat! :wallbash:

1455 AD
Nicea falls

IBT:
Newton's is completed.
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5831/07newtonsez1.jpg

Sadly, with my current support costs, Beijing is still only a 49-bpt town, even with a library, Cope's and Newton's. Once I push Theo off the end of the continent, I'll be able to trim down and boost science again.

On that same IBT, several deals under which I was buying Luxes from the Persians run out. I don't really need WW issues right now, so I trade ToG for Gems, Silks, 240 gold (of 249 in his bank), and 26 gpt. He wanted to offer me something like Printing Press and 20 gold, but I need his gpt more at the moment. Unfortunately, Xerxes is just about to own his whole continent, so he's going to be the problem child.

The trade puts him in the Industrial and he draws Medicine. I'm only 2 turns from Medicine, but he'll offer Medicine, PP, Incense, Spices and his maps for Steam. Hmmmmm . . . I don't think I want him getting rails just yet. Not when I'm only 2 turns from Medicine anyway.

Poor Henry of Portugal is just about to be overrun by Persia, so I trade him Chivalry for his maps. I don't think he'll be able to stand up to Xerxes, but maybe it'll help just a little.

Then I get a whole stack o'barbs. Time to send some vets into the area to play Wheel Of Promotions! I get 4 promotions, 25 gold, 0 losses.

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/7862/08barbsin5.jpg

In 1460, I crank up science to a whopping -225 gpt (I only have 879 in the bank), but that allows me to grab Medicine in 1. Persia already has it (I guess it was their freebie), but it's time to burn hard for ToE.

On the IBT, the Dutch try to sell me Printing Press & a Kushite barb galley attacks one of my frigates.

Medicine comes in and (obvioulsy), SciMeth is next.

Taking a look at my Military advisor, I currently have:
Total Units: 240
Allowed Units: 111
Army Support Cost: 258 gpt.

Now that my strategic railnet is laid, I can disband many units. I go through my cities and do a pretty massive "downsizing" of my military. And I put down a couple of new towns. Here's where I stand afterwards:

Total Units: 207
Allowed Units: 113
Army Support Cost: 188 gpt.

Clearly, I'm still way over the support limit. But I've got some room to grow now and I'll begin rejoinin some of those workers after I've done the railing that needs a-doin'.

I also go through and MM the empire in 1465 AD. By the end of it, I can pull down SciMeth at 50%/-63 gpt.

1470 AD:
Ani falls

Constantinople completes JS Bach's.

The Dutch and the Persians continue to fidget down in their little spots on my continent. I suspect one of them will DOW me before long.

1475 AD:
Heraclea falls

On the IBT, I'm informed that the Dutch have completed Magellan's Voyage. Naturally, this causes a cascade to Smith's. I should probably build Smith's more often than I do, but I'm much more interested in ToE at the moment. Oh, and by the way, in spite of the incessant pounding that I'm giving to the Byantines, they've begun Smith's as well.

1480 AD:
Smyrna falls
Found more towns, rail further south.

1485 AD:
Caesarea falls.

Scientific Method comes in. Army at Beijing swapped to ToE, due in 13. I can squeeze in Industrialization while the ToE completes, as it's only 5 turns. Then I can decide if I want to take the usual Atomic Theory Electronics gambit and use the palace prebuild at Canton for Hoover's, or if I'd be smarter to take Corporation/Refining and head straight for tanks, maybe swapping the palace prebuild for Universal Sufferage. I dunno. Clearly, the decision can wait until after Industrialization, which is due in 5 at -65 gpt.

1490 AD:
Trebizond falls.

I don't really want to stop here, but I've some prior obligations tonight, so I can't continue. Troops are in place for the siege of Constantinople, so the next installment will begin there. Unit support has been trimmed to ~120 gpt, so that's an improvement.

Oh, and here's the obligatory Empire screenshot. If you don't like tightly-packed empires, don't look.
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3640/09empirekg9.jpg

Really enjoying this story. Glad to see it's going again. :)

A few things:

First, about those German cities that didn't autoraze. Had they had a culture expansion yet? The only reason a size one city doesn't autoraze that I can remember right offhand is if it has accumulated 10 points of culture.

Second, as to your question concerning which techs to take for free, I don't think using the ToE to get Corp and Refining will be nearly as helpful as the usual Atomic/Electronics path. It seems to me that even if you get tanks asap they won't do much good until you invade Persia's continent, which will still be a little ways off and that invasion will benefit more from the increased production at home that it will from getting tanks more quickly.

Anyway, best of luck from here on out. I'm really looking forward to seeing how it goes from here. Great idea for a variant, btw.

Increase scientific output (which doesn't work)

No, it DOES work. Maybe it doesn't work as much as you think it should or you'd like though.

Sounds like an interesting idea. I bet I could do it on Monarch, OCC 20k style without really much trouble.

Really enjoying this story. Glad to see it's going again. :)

A few things:

First, about those German cities that didn't autoraze. Had they had a culture expansion yet? The only reason a size one city doesn't autoraze that I can remember right offhand is if it has accumulated 10 points of culture.

Second, as to your question concerning which techs to take for free, I don't think using the ToE to get Corp and Refining will be nearly as helpful as the usual Atomic/Electronics path. It seems to me that even if you get tanks asap they won't do much good until you invade Persia's continent, which will still be a little ways off and that invasion will benefit more from the increased production at home that it will from getting tanks more quickly.

Anyway, best of luck from here on out. I'm really looking forward to seeing how it goes from here. Great idea for a variant, btw.
Honestly, I don't remember if the German cities had had a cultural expansion or not. I didn't really pay much attention.

As far as tech choices, I may head for tanks. They'll make invading significantly easier, I think.

Glad to have you aboard.

No, it DOES work. Maybe it doesn't work as much as you think it should or you'd like though.
No. CB is right. It does not work. It may look like it works, but it doesn't.

Sounds like an interesting idea. I bet I could do it on Monarch, OCC 20k style without really much trouble.
OK.

Sounds like an interesting idea. I bet I could do it on Monarch, OCC 20k style without really much trouble.
OK.


Now he is going to do it :P

No. CB is right. It does not work. It may look like it works, but it doesn't.

I know that when I've used them my time to get the next tech in the modern age has dropped from like 6 turns to 4 turns.

Now he is going to do it

The OCC I did yesterday bored me after a bit. Maybe I'll do this soon enough though :).

I know that when I've used them my time to get the next tech in the modern age has dropped from like 6 turns to 4 turns.
Did you actually count the turns to research? When you start a Scientific Golden Age, the interface will tell you that it's dropped, but then it takes the full time to research. Something like:
Synthetic Fibers: 4 turns
Synthetic Fibers: 4 turns
Synthetic Fibers: 3 turns
Synthetic Fibers: 2 turns
Synthetic Fibers: 2 turns
Synthetic Fibers: 1 turns
Total: 6 turns

This is a pretty well-known glitch, so if you've been able to make it work, please let us know how!

Edit: I'll do it now and try it as Sumeria. Maybe even I'll forget trading for WC.
Update: On my first load for the game I got a start sufficiently crappy that I considered the game interesting. Here's the 3900 save
Doug.Lefelhocz,
I certainly have no objection to your playing this out as an OCC 20K game. I would appreciate it, though, if you would put that story in a different thread. I don't really want competing stories/games in the same thread.

Thanks,
Aabraxan

Moved to another location.
And now done... here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6981828#post6981828

Thanks for moving those, Doug.Lefelhocz. I appreciate it.

Chapter 11: Clearing some land

Looking at the Trade Screen, I see the Persia, my closest competitor, lacks Steam Power. I've already begun the ToE, so I'm at least 4 techs ahead of them, at least on the branches I've pursued. Obviously, PP creates a bottleneck & Xerxes could have Demo & Free Artistry. The only tech out there to buy is Printing Press. There may be something beyond printing press, but it's nothing that I'll need for this game.

1495 AD
The Siege of Constantinople:
I peek at the F7 screen. Constantinople contains The Great Lighthouse and JS Bach's. Those seem worth keeping, don't they?

Bombardment by 19 cannons redlines every defender. Unsurprisingly, it turns out that a redlined spear is no match for a cav army. Go figure.

I do a little leader-fishing at Constantinople, but no luck. Anyhoo, Constantinople is mine.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8527/01constantinopleab4.jpg

Nicomedia is also mine, but I don't treat it as well.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3238/02nicomediabn0.jpg

I send my troops southeast to Chalcedon and get another MGL. I've had great luck with them in this game (anybody remember what number that was?). I also succeed in razing Chalcedon. The Byzantines no longer have a foothold on my continent.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4926/03chalcedonmglov6.jpg

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3774/04chalcedonfallszd8.jpg

I send Sun Tzu back to Beijing and discover that I don't have any small wonders to rush. I make an army and hold it empty for now.

Out of curiosity, I go hit the diplo screen, but Theo won't talk to me. Ah, well. Man, talk about stubborn!

I've got a significant amount of land left to fill on this continent, so I cash-rush ~25 settlers, thoroughly depleting my cash reserves. That means that I have to thin out my military, lest I go in the hole or have to slow down research. The turn that those settlers come in becomes an exercise in speed-settling. Rail, settle, rail, settle.

I scale back my military pretty significantly. By the close of 1500 AD, I'm down to only 10 units over my support limit.

On the IBT, a dromon comes out of the fog and sinks one of my frigates. :gripe:

In 1505, Theo decides that she's ready to talk to me again. She doesn't have much to offer, but I've no need to keep warring on her. Not right now, anyway. I need to turn my attention to Xerxes.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8503/05byzantinepeace1505gu6.jpg

I get my military trimmed to 0 over the limit. Interestingly, here's my military advisor's opinion:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5716/06militaryadvisorvpersihy1.jpg

Interesting. I guess we'll just have to see how the advisor's comparison plays out.

Refining comes in on the IBT following 1510 and I set my sights on Atomic Theory. ToE is 9 turns out. I could go ahead and grab The Corporation before it comes it, but I've already got a palace prebuild going in Canton. If I use ToE for Refining and Steel, what do I use the prebuild for? So Atomic Theory & Electronics it is. I set research for AT, switch to Lone scienctist, and shut off science spending.

Constantinople continues to starve. I disband a cannon every turn in it to produce a worker. I'll have it down to a size-1 in no time.

In 1535, there I was, mindin' my own business. . . I mean I wasn't doin' nothing, when all of the sudden, my luxes get cut & this happens:

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8509/07persiandow1535rc0.jpg

And here I was, playin' all nice & stuff. . .

Naturally, I pull in ol' Bill.
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7851/08dutchmavpersiamt9.jpg

And, of course, Hank.
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6985/09portugesemavpersiafl2.jpg

I check with Theodora, but she wants too much, given that I expect her to have about a 1-dromon fleet. She's an OCC, after all.

By the end of the following turn, the Persians no longer maintain a presence on my continent. Now I'm off to invade theirs.

Wish me luck! :D

Why didn't you get Bill's luxes? Why give him Saltpeter instead of luxes?

Why didn't you get Bill's luxes? Why give him Saltpeter instead of luxes?
If Bill makes an early peace and thus breaks the treaty, he (Bill) loses access to the Saltpeter. Making peace before the MA expires becomes expensive.

If Bill's luxes are part of the deal, Bill isn't hurt by breaking his word, but China is because China loses the luxuries.

Why didn't you get Bill's luxes?
I looked into the cost of buying Bill's luxes and, as you might imagine, buying luxes is very expensive for me at this point, considering the size of my empire. If I remember correctly, for 2 luxes, he wanted 2 luxes, a resource and Steam Power, or some such deal.

As for the deal that I did make: I expect Bill to make peace before 20 turns runs out. If I make his luxes part of the deal, I lose them when he makes peace. If I were to make them a separate deal, the lux deal will survive his making peace. Also, CB is right. Including a per-turn item on my side of the equation makes breaking the MA more expensive for Bill.

Why give him Saltpeter instead of luxes?
Because he can't build cavalry out of furs. ;)

Wish me luck! :D

Absolutely. Wow this is really cooking now.

Nice work on paring your military. :goodjob:

Chapter 12: The Persian Conflict

Oh, and I forgot to mention something before I closed the last chapter. I went ahead and landed troops on Persian soil. I've zoomed out so that you can see where I landed, as well as where my staging area is.

http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/9826/01invasionmm6.jpg

If you look in the last chapter, in the military screenshot, you'll see that Persia is a Democracy. I've tried to crash AI democracies with WW on several occasions and I've never had much luck. Let's see how long it takes for Xerxes to switch governments, shall we?

1550 AD:
Lahore falls. I keep it for a beachhead, fingers crossed.
1 source of spices unhooked for Persia.

Sadly, Henry goes the way of the dodo.

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/4606/02henryextinctha7.jpg

1555 AD:
Second source of Persian spices unhooked
3 Persian cavs killed by cav army.

At the end of that turn, I get the ToE, as expected.

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/307/03toetg7.jpg

That nabs Atomic Theory & Electronics for me. Palace prebuild at Canton swapped to The Hoover Dam, due in 15.

I was stockpiling cash while building the ToE, but now that ToE is finished, I crank up research again. After switching all my tax collectors to beaker-makers, I can get The Corp in 4 at 50%, +59 gpt.

The Persians send a stack of 5-6 Immortals at Lahore. Just like MDI, Immortals die like spears. Put them on defense & they're just not a match for cavalry. Now, I'll grant you that the counterattack is painful, but that's a different problem.

I send the Third Sword Army north, to Ghulaman. Look at the minimap & how far Ghulaman is from the rest of the Persian empire. I suspect that there might be black gold in them thar hills, so I burn the city down, load up a settler and send it north.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6983/04ghulamanjo9.jpg

In 1565, Thucydides completes his work: The Largest Nations of the World

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/372/05thucydidestx5.jpg

I have 114 cities. Xerxes has 33 known cities.

In 1575, I send forces to Calcutta and see something I've never seen before. How is it that a caravel is guarding Calcutta?

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/3681/06calcuttascaravelfy5.jpg

I attack and discover that a pesky cavalry was hiding underneath. Calcutta and Guimares both fell that year.

As of 1580, I've taken out 3 Persian cities. My armies were damaged, but that was to be expected now that I'm facing Rifles. It doesn't appear that the Dutch have taken any Persian cities, but they haven't lost any ground, either.

And, of course, here's the latest screenshot of the empire.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/43/07empirexv3.jpg

The Cavalry was loaded in the Caravel, so it wasn't showing as that towns defender. The AI often loads their troops for a counterattack even if the town has no troops defending. True brilliance....

That would 'splain it. Thanks, Overseer.

Chapter 13: The Persian Conflict, Part II
Leader-Palooza

I realized after shutting the game down last time that those of you following this thread don't really need any more pictures of my core. You've seen about a dozen of those. What you really need to see at this point is the Persian Front, so here it is:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/676/01persianfrontyx5.jpg

In 1580 Persia and the Dutch sign a peace treaty. Hmmmm, does that mean I can kick the Dutch off my continent now? In that same year, the Persians request peace. I would have posted a screenshot, but the bottom line is that they won't offer anything but the PT and one tiny, corrupt hamlet. Not yet, thank you.

Taking a look at the active deals that I had going with the Dutch, hmmm, there are none, except a PT. I no longer have to ship saltpeter, because he made peace with Xerxes. Time to kick him off my continent. In 1585, I DOW William & take Haarlem. I am finally the sole occupant of my continent.

By 1590, my continent is railed. I am already beginning to join native workers back to my cities, as I have 97 slaves. I also being the process of railing a few hills and mountains in the farmlands, because I'll want them railed before I put down airfields. I'm still 2 turns from RP, so it'll be a while before Flight comes, but I'd rather be ready sooner than later. And thanks to the circular rails to which darski was kind enough to direct me, my continent looks cooler than it did before. Thank you, darski.

I should have done this ages ago, but I finally get around to really MMing all of my specialist farms.

The Persians attack Lahore in 1590 and reduce it to one wounded defender, but are unable to take it. The RNG has smiled upon me. I promptly move my attackers back into the town to defend my beachhead. I guess I'll just have to use my two lil-ol' cav armies until I get the Persians whittled down. I also go ahead and cash-rush an army at Beijing.

I begin to leader-fish a little more on the Persians who attacked Lahore and, lo and behold:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/582/02leaderno9ii1.jpg

I build another army (which I know must surprise y'all to no end), and send my already-filled armies into Persian territory. They're going to spend a little time killing strays, capturing workers and pillaging resources. By the end of 1595, I've pillaged one source of Persian coal and am sitting on a source of their iron. I'll pillage it on the next turn.

Replaceable Parts comes in, and I realize just how much easier this game would be if I could only build a few infantry. That would violate my variant, though. Currently, the best defender I've got is cavs. After looking at my rule, though, I debate the issue of Guerillas:

I may never build any defensive units, unless its attack value currently exceeds all other units available to me. A "defensive unit" is defined, for purposes of this game, as any land combat unit whose defensive value exceeds its offensive value. The only exception to this rule is when a defensive unit is also the unit with the highest attack value. Once a unit with an equal or higher attack value is available, I must immediately quit building the unit whose defense exceeds its offense and begin disbanding them. I am not required to disband all of them at once, and I am allowed to move them to my own cities to reclaim their shields. Artillery, aircraft, and watercraft are expressly excluded from the definition of a "defensive" unit.

A guerilla's defensive & offensive values are the same (6), so I technically can build them. At the moment, I'm going to hold off, for a couple of reasons: (a) I'd be using them in an almost purely defensive role, which doesn't seem right; and (2) they upgrade to a defensive unit (TOW), so I'd never be able to upgrade them. I'll have to think about this, because the 6 defense would sure be a step up over the 3 of cavs.

I continue to leader-fish at Lahore, knowing that I don't have enough attackers on-scene to take down the Persian Rifles just yet. Lo and behold, No. 10 comes along.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1504/03leaderno10yn4.jpg

Aaaand, General Tso shows up:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/7770/04leaderno11qg6.jpg

K'uang-Yin . . COME ON DOWN!

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/2664/05leaderno12zx0.jpg

In 1610, in what can only be described as a fit of desperation, Xerxes orders his men to immolate themselves by attacking Lahore directly. Not his best plan. He succeeds in losing ~8-10 units, while killing 0 of mine.

I've lost interest in pursuing war with the Dutch any longer. They're neither a threat nor a helpful ally, but I don't need to kill them now. I make peace in exchange for their maps.

I've got enough towns ready to riot that I have to turn lux spending up to 30%. Not a good sign, but not unacceptable, either.

Refining comes in & I have 4 sources of oil already hooked up. Yay for me.

I've begun to notice that, in spite of conventional wisdom, aqueducts in my science farms may actually make sense in this game. I've got tons and tons of railed grassland, which means that I've got lots of farms coming in at 14 fpt, supporting 6 citizens with 2 fpt waste. An aque costs 100 shields and 1 gpt, but it would change the support from 1 to 3 in that town, which (if my math is right) should add 4 gpt (moving 1 unit from the unsupported column to the supported one), +3 bpt for every town that makes the jump from town to city. I don't normally put aques in my farms, but it seems like a good idea this time around.

Anyway, I go through and swtich lots of settler builds to aques. I've already got ~25 settlers and no safe place to plant them, so now's the time to do this. We'll see if it works out.

I didn't take any more towns during this set, so the Persian front looks just like it did when I started. I did, however, get some coal, some horses and some other resources, ahem, unhooked for the Persians. I'm not far from being able to assemble a force and getting back to the business of taking towns, but it just didn't happen this set.

Thanks for following along.

This is just an amazing game.

:goodjob:

Good game, good game! I'm quite amazed by how many leaders you got that early on! I wish I'd been nearly half as lucky in my current game. I swept an entire continent with the Iroquois and got no MGLs :gripe: . And I only started one of the three wars :D Meanwhile the Inca are making merry across the (very wide, surprised my suicide boat made it!) water, and I've no safe way to get to them for a while. My conquest involved building only one defensive unit - a rushed Pike for emergency defence - in the process. That's my general style prior to Muskets, anyway - where this variant would start to really hurt me is from Guns, more likely Rep Parts, onwards.

Thank you both. I've had better MGL luck in this game than in any other game that I can recall, no doubt. The last turnset only spanned from ~1580-1620 and generated 4 MGLs. I don't want to jinx myself, but if I'm counting right, I've had 13 MGLs and an SGL, so far. At this point, I don't have enough vet cavs to fill the armies I've got. I've had to rename a couple of armies, "Don't Fill Me Yet," so that I don't get mixed up while loading armies at Lahore.

eldar, you've hit the nail on the head as far as when this variant hurts: the Industrial Age. During the first two ages, there are offensive units that can easily compensate for the lack of defensive units. No big loss if you can't build spears or pikes. I almost never research Nationalism, so that wasn't a big deal, either, though I can see how it could be. I usually only build Rifles if I lack rubber. But Infantry are a very big step up from prior units. I usually build at least one Infantry army under which to hide arty and cavs.

I'm surprised there are no specialist farms on rivers, In my games, up to 1/4 of my specialist farms are "supersized" from being on rivers or being captured enemy cities that had aqueducts. Building a few aqueducts for them isn't a bad idea, but I'll bet a few are already on rivers and can be allowed to grow. In the future, you might emphasize settling on rivers to generate more super science farms. Another suggestion is designating your farms by adding punctuation to their names, which moves them to the top of the list. Here is a picture of a COTM game specialist farm list: http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x235/ThoOverseer714/SpecialistFarms.jpg They are far easier to Micromanage when they are organized. Hope any of this helps you.

Actually, Overseer, I've seen how you name your specialist farms before and it's a good idea. I keep meaning to do the same thing, but just haven't gotten around to it.

As for this game, there are specialist farms on rivers, because I do emphasize that. The other thing that I emphasize is putting them on hills to get them up off the grasslands and turn a 1-food hill into a 2-food city center. This game just really has a lot of grassland available for farming, though. Almost everything formerly controlled by Theo is grass. The 'ducts may turn out to be a bad idea, but I'm going to give it a shot, if for not other reason than to see how well it works.

I'll be watching to see how it works, I'll bet it works well, the 1 gpt upkeep is far outweighed by the ability to ease back on the tech slider. Something that might help speed them along is "shield dumping", building units in low corruption areas and disbanding in high corruption areas. I'm sure you do that already, but there are many watching this game that might appreciate such tips, however redundant they might be.

I took a look at my save tonight. I was going to go through and rename my farms, but the 4 & 3/4-year-old ninja that lives at my house insisted that she be allowed to play her own game of "Conquerin' da Planet." How could I possibly resist? :D

I'm only 12 units over the support limit, so I don't really think I have enough units to do much shield dumping, but that may change once I get tanks. At that point, I can begin scrapping vCavs.

One other thought: Beijing has a library, Cope's and Newton's and lots of other cities have at least a library & a few have universities. If I drop the science slider to make use of scientists, I sort of defeat the purpose of the 2 wonders at Beijing. I counted the coins at Beijing, and it's producing 36 raw commerce. I don't have any beakers invested in Steel yet, so this is the perfect time to run some tests as to which is better in this situation: (a) slap up a university, crank up the science slider and switch (some) specialists to taxmen; or (b) make all specialists scientists and drop science as far as it will go. I'm aware of the 2-coins vs. 3-beakers aspect, but I'll be curious as to what happens to that equation with those 2 science wonders + the other multipliers in place.

Ok. I went through and renamed my specialist farms. This is the first time I've done this, so we'll see if it helps. For farms that are still growing, I used "^^CityName." For farms that are zeroed out or as close as they'll ever get, I used "**CityName." The F1 screen then puts the **Cities and the ^^Cities before the rest of my empire, and I'm not sure I like that. In later games, I may switch to zzCityName or something so that my farms go at the bottom of the list.

I haven't had time to run any tests on whether it's more efficient to rely on: (a) a high slider and lots of tax collectors; or (b) a low science slider with lots of scientists, but I've decided to upload the save in case anyone wants to tinker with the farms or just take a look.

Let me know what you think.

Given that a scientist gives you three beakers and a tax collector gives two gold, using scientists is more efficient. Remember that specialist output doesn't go through multipliers, and assuming that you have both (lib+uni) and (market+bank) in your core cities, it's better to get as many beakers as you can from scientists and keep the sci slider low. Actually if you have (market+bank+stock exchange) in core cities, AND Wall Street, you really do want the sci slider to be lower as you'll get more tax income (+150%) from core cities than you would science output (+100%).

Oh, I understand all of that, but I'm still going to tinker with it. I suspect that I'll just learn that the conventional wisdom about science farms is correct. It's just that, given how my core, & especially Beijing, is outfitted, I wonder if the equation changes. My core is fully outfitted with libraries and markets and has a few universities. Very few, if any, banks have been built, which may narrow the applicability of my results, now that I think about it.

The multipliers in my core rely on raising the science slider to get the commerce that's converted to beakers. Science farms allow me to keep the science slider low. So, in theory, those two ideas work at cross-purposes, if you understand what I mean. When I tinkered with things last night, Beijing was producing 49 bpt at 40% science. It should produce ~100 bpt at 70% (IIRC). IIRC, I can swap the army build to a university and get the uni in 1 with no shield loss. I think I'll have to totally shut down research for 1 turn for this test, but that's OK; that won't cost me this game. If I do that, Beijing should produce ~120 bpt. So that's a ~70 bpt increase. That's 23 specialists that can be converted from scientists to tax collectors, from Beijing alone. If I raise the slider, more commerce goes through libraries in about 15 cities.

Chapter 14: Science & Sliders & Specialists, Oh my!

To satisfy my own curiosities about science, sliders & specialists, I'm going to have to shut research off totally for 1 turn before experimenting. I can switch Beijing to a university (from an army) & get the uni in 1, with no shield loss. Then I set science to 0% & switched all scientsists to something else. In towns building aques, I hired CEs. Everywhere else, I hired tax collectors. Then I realize that I forgot to rename all those farms up in the Entremont area. So I rename those, while I'm at it.

After all of that is done, here's what I've got for my F1 & CA2 tecnology screens. Zero beakers invested in Steel, zero coming in this turn.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/6421/01experimentf1gc6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Before I made the changes, I had Steel due in 4, so that's going to be my standard for this test. Both methods have to produce Steel in 4. As you can see above, Steel comes in at 3733 beakers, so I have to generate 934 bpt to hit that. (OK. Technically, 933.25, but I'm assuming that the game rounds beakers down.)

Oh, and I've decided that I can build Guerillas. Their attack value is equal to their defense value. Besides, I'm currently using sword armies to protect arty, but that doesn't make them "defensive units."

Anyway, I hit enter and away we go. We Love the Chairman Days erupt all over the place. A couple of aques finish. Militarily, I deicde it's time to gather my forces for another push into Persian territory.

But first, the experiment. To give you an idea of what my core cities have, I begin at Beijing:

Beijing:
Library
University
Market
Cope's
Newton's

Canton:
Library
Market
(Don't fret. Canton should & will get a uni.)

Hangchow:
Library
Court
Market

Shanghai:
Library
Uni
Market

Chinan:
Library
Market
Court
Uni

Xinjan:
Library
Market
Court
Uni

Tsingtao:
Lib
Market
Uni
Court

Macao:
Library
Uni
Market

Ningpo:
Library
Court
(Market in 2)

Xinjian:
Forbidden Palace
Library
Market
Uni
Courthouse

Shantung:
Library
Market
Uni
Court

Nanking:
Lib
Market
uni

Tatung:
Library
Market
Uni

New Xinjian:
Lib
Market
Court
Uni

New Canton:
Lib
Market
Court

New Hangchow:
Lib
Market

New Ningpo:
Lib
Market
Court

New Shantung:
Lib
Court

The last few cities are what I'd call semi-core & I'm not about to go through each and every city and detail what it's got. If you're that interested, you're free to download the save. Leaving science at 0%, I switch all tax collectors to scientists. I also switch CEs to scientists, leaving only 1 CE in each town that's building an aque. Obviously, this costs me a few scientists, but it seems reasonable for this game. At 0% science, 30% lux, I can grab Steel in 7 at +402 gpt. I then turn up the science just far enough to grab Steel in 4 and begin switching scientists back to tax collectors.

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/9426/02experimentf1lowsliderhp7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

At 40%, Beijing produces 56 bpt. Interestingly, CA2 shows me as producing 1008 bpt, but if I switch even one tax collector to a scientist, I lose a turn of research. Now, let's look at it the other way. I move my science slider to 70%, then begin switching scientists to tax collectors.

Beijing is an even 100 bpt. If I had more luxes and could run 100% science, it would produce 144 bpt. (Even though I know I can't leave lux spending at 0% without massive riots, I shut it off just to see what Beijing could theoretically produce.) Anway, here's the F1 for running high science with more tax collectors:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6329/03experimentf1highslidehm2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

As you can see, even with 2 Great (science) wonders, a library and a university in the captial, running a low slider and lots of scientists puts a little more gold in your pocket. On the one hand, my first reaction was that, with only ~35 gpt difference, the question was open as to whether that's always the right solution. I could imagine that you could run across situations where high-slider, more tax collectors might actually be the right way to go. On the other hand, my core has zero banks. If I had more banks, there would have been a greater difference between the two tests.

Anway, thank you for putting up with my experiment and back to the game . . .

To be continued in Chapter 15

Chapter 15: And now back to your regularly scheduled war.

In 1625, Canton completes the Hoover Dam. Next build is a factory.

Xerxes keeps sending lone cavs to die outside the walls of Lahore. However, he's sending them one at a time now, so I think I've survived his biggest rush.

It takes me until about 1640 to get my forces into position, but that's the year that Samra falls. I think it was Samra, anyway, I didn't think about logging the name until right after the town fell. Oops.

1640 also nets me another MGL:

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/9121/01mglno14nk0.jpg

I create another army and proceed to beat on the Persians some more. Their terms for peace are still not favorable enough for me. I must admit, though that fortified rifles are hard on my armies.

In 1650, Karachi falls, for a gain of 2 gold & 1 slave. At the end of 1650, I'm at 30% lux and 4 cities are about to riot. I hate to go to 40%, so I go see Bill. I think he's got some luxes for sale. For Steam, he'll give me Ivory, Incense, Printing Press, World Map & Territory Map. I tried to get him to trade me Nationalism, but he want's Steam plus something more than 2000 gold. No, thanks. Anyway, here's the deal that I made. What you can't see on the screen is his territory map.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1921/02williamluxesnu6.jpg

Even with 2 extra luxes, I have to keep the slider at 30%, but that's primarily because of Entremont. It's determined to riot. Peace will have to come soon, but not quite yet.

I consider building Smith's Trading Company. It's not one that I ordinarily build, but Beijing can build it in 10, so I figure it's worth a look. The only other civ building it is the Dutch, so I investigate Amsterdam.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/1441/03amsterdam1660ax1.jpg

Beijing begins work on Smith's

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6449/04beijing1660adnd7.jpg

The battle of Madras starts off in a promising way:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4351/05mglno15uu5.jpg

I found ^^New Chun-king close enough that I can put the leader in, build an army (I now have 12, not all filled), and continue leader-fishing. No more luck.

After the burning of Madras, I decide to go make peace. Xerxes still won't give me Nationalism or Democracy (he'd be insulted, but here's the deal that I do strike:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6251/06persianpeacesx7.jpg

I know that means that he'll renegotiate later, because of the gpt part of the deal. That's OK. I also sell him Industrialization. He wants Elec & Indus for Nationalism. Not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent.

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/4258/07persianinddealxl8.jpg

I discover Combustion in 1660, and I set my sights on Flight. I've actually got a couple of cities that could benefit from hospitals, so I may go after that once I've got Flight. Tanks are nice, but with enough arty and bombers, they're not an absolute gottahaverightnow.

I also forgot to turn the lux slider down after those lux deals, so now I have WLTKD erupting all over the place.

In 1665, the persians begin Smith's. Let's take a peek, shall we?

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2153/08smithsinvestgationbacmv9.jpg

A size 6 city with 7 net spt & only 78 turns to build it. . . . .

1665 AD also turns out to be a brutal year in my history, as I disband roughly 40 native workers to reduce support costs. I keep about a dozen that will be used for airfields, as I'm below the support limit and don't have a good place to join them right now. I've got 106 slaves, so that's plenty for cleanup and I've railed everything I need.

So that's where I'll close Chapter 15. I'm 9 turns from Smith's, 4 turns from Flight and the tech leader. All in all, life is good for the Chinese Empire.

This last part against my Persians is going to be muchly interesting eh?
:lol:

Keep up the good work and the good reporting.

Careful Aabraxan, it's ONLY 78 turns!!!!! :faint:

This last part against my Persians is going to be muchly interesting eh?
:lol:

Keep up the good work and the good reporting.
Thanks, darski.

Even if I go back and pick up Sanitation before tanks, I expect to have Flight, Sanitation and everything up to and including tanks before the PT with Persia runs out. Granted, there is always the risk that he'll DOW me before then, especially with the trade deals that I just cut.

I don't want to jinx myself, but . . . This game's over. I'm just not done killing. I checked the F8 screen. Persia has ~13K in culture, so that's not a real threat. There's no way they can make 100K before I can kill them off. Persia might get to tanks before I wipe them out, but even if they do, they'll never build them fast enough to really hurt me. He's several techs behind me, so he won't make it to the modern age fast enough to grab the UN & I don't think he'll be able to build nukes fast enough to do much, either. Especially if I don't build the Manhattan Project. Once I find uranium & aluminum, I can target those areas for conquest and keep him from ever having those resources. I suppose I should go ahead and knock off Theo, but I just haven't done it yet. She's still stuck in the Medieval, IIRC, & still an OCC. As for William, he's between Xerxes & Theo in terms of threat level. However, as long as I can keep buying luxes from him, there's no reason to kill him off just yet.

After disbanding workers, I'm ~40 units below the support limit and have enough settlers stockpiled to make a fast push for domination. I haven't decided whether I want domination or conquest, though.

Careful Aabraxan, it's ONLY 78 turns!!!!! :faint:
Oh, I know. I'll sure have to maximize Beijing's shields to be sure that I get it. You know what a powerhouse a size 6 AI town can be. :rolleyes: (I especially like the fact that Bactra's wasting 4 fpt with mined tiles that it could work.)

I'll have to double-check, but I don't think there are any other wonder builds going that might cause a cascade. Heck, for that matter, even if I get caught in a cascade, I can always switch back and build another army . . . then I just have to build enough units to fill the armies that I've got. I think I have 3-4 empties right now. If Xerxes gives me enough time to fill them all with tanks, . . . :ar15:

I'm glad to see this game is going so well!!! :)

So theeerre you are! Glad you could stop in. :D

Chapter 16: A time for peace

Now that peace reigns, I don't expect for there to be much to document. The short story will be: (1) pursue Flight, Sanitation & Motorized Transportation; (2) build Smith's; (3) military build-up. This turnset starts in 1665 and I make no guarantees that I'll log every turn.

In 1665, the first destroyers come off the assembly lines. In 1670, I invite Xerxes back to the trading table. His price for Nationalism is, as always, exorbitantly high. I am determined to break his bank, though, so we strike a deal for The Corporation.

http://img360.imageshack.us/img360/2130/01persiancorptradend8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

For me, trading with the AI is economic warfare, plain and simple. Every gpt that I get out of him is one that he can't spend on his own research.

In 1675, I cash-rush a few more units. I'm below the unit support limit and I see no sense in that. One of the things that I rush is a transport over by the Byzantine city. Time to do Theo in.

In 1680, Flight comes in. I head for Sanitation. I can grab it in 4 at 0%!

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6784/02specialistfarmsic3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I make one last trade to Theo. I want my maps as up-to-date as possible and figure that I might as well clean out her bank account while I'm at it.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2410/03theoslasttrademt0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I DOW her immediately following this trade. Then, in 1695:

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2317/04theodestroyedhf0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I keep combat-settling on the Persians, pushing back their borders and then railing as close as I can. By 1705, I've got ~6800 gold stockpiled, with +646 gpt. Then this happens:

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6461/05smithsdn7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I've only built Smith's once or twice, I must admit. Lots of players say it can save you tons of gold, but my gpt only jumps from +646 gpt to +674 gpt. Somehow, that's not as big a jump as I'd expected for 600 Shields. Doesn't seem like a great return on a 600-shield investment.

In 1710, I discover a one-tile island on which the Dutch have put a city, Maastricht. Seems like I just had this "Amphibious War/Take it in a PT" discussion recently. In this case, if I go for domination, I can get to 66% without ever needing to take it.

The Persians are beginning to get froggy on me again. I don't recall if I mentioned it, but when they DOW'd me last time, down on the southern end of my continent, I'd been watching them for a while. Their units would run out, turn around, run back into the city. Same thing is going on as I squeeze the Persians for space on their continent. I wouldn't be all that surprised if they DOW'd me soon.

In 1720, my inventors learn the secrets of Mass Production, . . . Tanks in 4 at 30%, +679 gpt, 9 grand in the bank.

I've got 5 turns remaining in trade deals with the Dutch and 9 turns left in the longest-lasting deal that I've got with the Persians. I'm not sure that it will be necessary for me to let that deal run to its end, though. I've got 3 empty armies, just waiting for tanks to come along.

Here's a screenshot of the Eastern Front. I figure that, once I get tanks, I'll begin airlifing and then make a fast push through Tyre, Pasargadae and then Perseopolis. That way, I take out their most productive cities first. They're in the process of hooking up the rubber (near the northernmost top of the landmass, by Hamadan), so I'll be seeing a few infantry, but it's taken them almost half of the PT to get around to hooking it up. Mind you, rubber will be one of the first things I target with my bombers. I'd much rather face Rifles than Infantry.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/8201/06persianfrontsh0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I must admit that I'm rather glad that peace is coming to an end. I'm ready to get back to warmongering.

Just read this story and love it:goodjob:
will be following until the end

Welcome to CFC, CIV D!

Glad to have you along.

Chapter 17: A time for war

1725 AD: The Rundown
Netherlands:
PT & 5 turns left in the deal for incense & ivory

Persia:
PT (7)
Gems +71 gpt (7)
94 gpt (9)

Flight in 4

Workers: 107
Cavalry: 68
Arty: 24
Settlers: 15
Bobmers: 12
Armies: 12
Guerillas: 10
Swords: 7
Transports: 5
Destroyers: 5
Fighters: 2
Riders: 1

Cities: 132
Gold: 8883
GPT: +693

Specialist farms are maturing nicely. I've been able to zero a few more out, but the fact that I have only 24 arty shows the impact that building aques has had on my artillery production. I usually have quite a few more by now.

In 1730, Xerxes shows up to threaten me. OK. I'll get out of "your" lands for now.

In 1740, I start putting my workers on the Persian landmass away. I've got an airfield and I've just about decided that hurting the Persians is more important than my rep at this point. Motorized Transport comes in & I select Amphibious Warfare for my next tech. I cycle through cities and get 4 tanks by the end of the build cycle. I think I want to go for Conquest, so I just may need Amphibious War. Besides, I almost never use Marines.

I get a popup that I don't often see:

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2779/01battlefieldmedicinetr3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hmmm . . . I don't expect troops to be in enemy territory for very long, so I'll have to think about that one.

By 1750, I have 13 tanks, but I lose my supplies if incense and ivory, which I was buying from the Dutch. When I go back to the trading table, I try to get Nationalism in the deal. Billy's price is still too high.

I've been watching the Persians & their resources pretty carefully. By 1750, they've pretty much reconnected everything. He doesn't have Replaceable parts yet, so he can't build Infantry. Nonetheless, I decide that popping Xerxes in the eye, prior to his being able to build them, is worth more than my rep at this stage. I call him back to the trading table before DOWing him.

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/1651/02persiannationalismtradu3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/6476/03persiandow1750fq5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Naturally, I bring ol' Bill in on the fun, even though it's moderately expensive to do so.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8278/04dutchalliancebj0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1750
Persians & Dutch are both Democracies.
Persians lose rubber.
Persians lose a galley.
Persians lose oil.
Persians lose gems. Twice.
Persians lose horses.
Persians lose silks.
Lisbon falls.


1752
Zero units lost to counterattack.
Persians lose coal.
Persians lose silly soldiers left standing in the open.
Tyre falls. Turns out that Immortals aren't.
Hamdan falls. You know, the really nice thing about razing cities is that you can use the slaves to re-road the tile.

By now, I have ~17 tanks, 8 of them in armies.

1754 AD
Persians lose rubber, 2nd source.
Persians lose silks, 2nd source.
Pasargadae falls. I now own Leonardo's.
In the siege of Delhi, I get a new MGL (#15).
Bangalore falls

IBT: Amphibious War comes in.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5576/05amphibiouswarfarejc2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Fission is next. Gold is more important than beakers at this stage, so I'll take it due in 9 at 0%, +776 gpt.

Beijing finishes a tank and I decide to go ahead and build Battlefield Medicine, due in 8. Well, due in less than that. It's a small wonder, so I can rush it with this latest leader.

1756 AD
Bombay falls.
Delhi falls, and the Knights Templar is mine. . . . Then I remember that it's obsolete and abandon Delhi. (I have to admit, I always find it funny that "The Resistance has ended" when you abandon a city. :lol: )

By the end of 1756, I have 24 tanks, 16 of which are loaded into armies. Fission is due in 9 and I have ~8000 gold in the bank, with +773 per turn. Persia is crippled & my armies are at the gates of Persepolis. Off the top of my head, I can't recall exactly where they are in tech, but I haven't seen anything tougher than a a Rifle in several turns. Naturally, that may be because they no longer have rubber hooked up. :mischief: My alliance with the Dutch continues, but I can't tell if there's any real fighting going on between them.

And, for your viewing pleasure, here's the Persian Front:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/4509/06persianfrontwk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Stay tuned & wish me luck!

great game so far. this is the first one i've read but i'll be keeping up with this one :tu

As usual.. excellent playing

:goodjob:

I enjoy following this one. It's nice to see a clear and present winner!!!

Chapter 18: Would you like some razin's with that?

At the end of 1756, a Persian knight emerges from the fog. Apparently, they've hooked up their horses again. That's the first Persian horse unit that I've seen in a while. Thought I'd killed them all off.

1758 AD
I fumble-finger and send a couple of arty off into the jungle. Drat! That's 2 lost turns of firepower.
Rush Battlefield Medicine.
Frankfurt is razed.
Persian horses successfully bombed. Back to foot soldiers for them.

IBT:
Battlefield Medicine completes.

1760 AD
Persepolis razed. It contains the Great Wall, but that is now obsolete.
Spend ~3500 gold rushing units.
Get caught unawares by Xerxes and lose a few workers. WW jumps and I finally have to use the lux slider again.
Gordium is razed, along with the Sistine Chapel.
Leipzig is razed.
Istakhr is razed.
Dariush Kabir is razed.
Lagos is razed.
All in all, a bad year for the Persians.

1764 AD
Ergili is razed.
Antioch is razed.
Bactra is razed.
Another bad year for the Persians.
Play some Whack-a-Barb and get 25 gold from a Ghuzz encampment!

IBT:
I begin to see Persian units disbanding. Guess they just can't afford the unit support any more, eh?

1766 AD
Oporto is razed.
Persians lose iron source.
Berlin is razed, along with the obsolete Temple of Artemis.
The Persians are willing to negotiate again, so I can finally see their techs again. They have Democracy, Communism & Fascism to sell, and Scientific Method, Sanitation, Steel, & Replaceable Parts to buy. Guess that tells me why I haven't seen any Infantry. Oh, and they've got a whopping 22 gold to their name. The Dutch are in a similar situation, except that they don't have Fascism, but they do have 65 gold & Steel. I don't think there's going to be much more trading in this game.

In spite of all the Persian-killing that I've done, they're still a Democracy. I know that Demo is susceptible to being overthrown, at least for the human player, but I've never been able to topple an AI Democracy with WW. Guess I'll just have to keep on killing.

Oh, and I'm still 80 units below my support limit.

1768 AD
Nuremberg is razed.
Heidelberg is liberated, but abandoned after I use its roads to reach Munich. (Sorry, can't stand the misspelling of the name).
Munich is razed

Ooh, Persia's still willing to negotiate!

1770 AD
On the IBT, I actually saw fighting between the Dutch and the Persians! Very exciting.
Hamburg is razed.
Konigsberg is razed.
Arbela is razed.

OK. Eighteen towns razed in 6 turns, is that right? Just for fun, let's take a look at the massive Persian Empire now, shall we?

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5580/01persianempireqa4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Somehow, they don't seem that threatening any more. . . The Persians have 4 towns left that I see. I haven't started in on the Dutch yet, but, as I'm sure you can imagine, that's not far off. I apologize for not taking more screenshots. I honestly thought I had, but I guess that was Chapter 17. I'll try to do better in Chapter 19. Honest.

Chapter 19: Endgame

1770 AD
Before hitting enter, I call Xerxes to see if he'd like to discuss terms. He'll turn his pockets inside out at this point, giving me every city but his capital. He would also trade Demo, but he won't let go of Communism or Fascism.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/9048/01persianpocketsyg5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

As you might imagine, I have little use for peace at this juncture.

Sidon is razed.

IBT:
Fission comes in. Rocketry is next. It'll be due in 7 at 0%, +622 gpt.

1774 AD
Beijing finishes another army & starts (*gasp*) a hospital. (I've got 2 unused tiles and just can't stand it any more.)

It dawns on me that I don't know if a Marine Army will be able to amphibiously attack, but I've got an empty army, Marines, transports . . . stopping here to get a "Quick Answer to a Newbie Question."

While I wait for my answer, I go to the assault on Sardis. Looks like General Tso has come back!

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/6338/02mglno16bp9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Sardis is liberated. I'm keeping this one as a base of operations in the coming Dutch-Chinese War.

In 1774, I load Marines into an army.
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/431/03firstmarinearmysn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

On the IBT, William threatens me due to units in his territory. My new military advisor (the 4 3/4 year old ninja at my house) & I are in no mood to be threatened by William, so we DOW him with 8 turns left in a lux trade. Fortunately, I've spent the past few turns planting outposts & settling towns on luxes that I didn't have.

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8256/04dutchdowgy1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Unfortunately, I didn't protect all my workers and lost a stack of 4 on the IBT.

1776 AD

Holwerd is captured.
Rotterdam is razed, and the GLib with it.
Zohak is destroyed, and the Persians are down to 1 town.
Somehow, the Persians are still a Democracy. WW must be absolutely killing them.
Middleburg is destroyed
I also got an unusually large barb spawn and wind up killing no less than a half dozen camps this turn. Oh, and if anyone is interested, even if you bomb the barbs to death, a worker still cannot enter an undefended barb camp.
The Hague is razed.
Amsterdam is razed, and the Statue of Zeus is no more.
Groningen is razed.
Utrecht falls. I keep it only because it has Sun Tzu's. Not that I need Sun Tzu's, but it just seems fitting to keep it.

On the IBT, the Dutch drop off a settler pair (settler/rifle) in unoccupied territory near a couple of unprotected arty. Unfortunately for these 2 schlubs, my arty is on rails, so they'll never touch it. Nor will they get a city settled.

1778 AD
On the off chance that anyone's interested, here's the victory screen:

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9697/05victoryscreenlq5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
As you can see, I'm only at 58% of territory, but 98% of population. I'm not in any danger of hitting the dom limit.

Eindhoven is captured. I keep it, because I think it's the last Persian city.

Sure enough:

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9969/06persiadestroyedoo5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Once Eindhoven falls, I do my best John Henry imitation and rail a track all the way to the Dutch border. I'd be surprised if there's a single tile on this continent that I can't reach in one turn.

Somewhere along the line, I forgot to log turns. As of this point, it's 1782 AD.

1782 AD
Arnhem started the turn as a size 7 with fortified Rifles on a hill. By the time I'm done bombing it, it's a size 6 with no defenders whatsoever. The contient is cleared. Now I've just gotto wait for transports to reach Maastricht. While we wait, heres a picture:

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8015/07continentclearednq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1784 AD
I bomb Maastricht until it's empty of Defenders, then move the First Marine Army into position.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7182/08dutchdestroyedqb2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Naturally, this means:
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/415/09gameoverjk1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Thanks to everyone that followed along.

great game.

Clappity clap clap. Excellent finish!

An utterly merciless game, but good!

Incredible!!!

Way to go!!!

and already on to the next 'glorious victory'.

congratulations, aabra. well played and good read, as always.

Excellent game, Aabraxan!

:dance:

Any final thoughts/insights regarding your "D-less" variant?

Great game! :clap:

w00t :D Next: conquest with defensive units only....

Thanks, everyone!
Any final thoughts/insights regarding your "D-less" variant?
A few, but nothing earth-shattering. At Monarch, not building any defensive units didn't make a lot of difference, at least until the Industrial Age. In the AA, you simply substitute swords for spears and focus more on being the attacker, rather than being attacked. In the Medieval, I lost a fair number of MDI to counter-attacks. The ones I lost, however, were typically out in the open. Having walls in front-line towns goes a long way to turning those attackers into decent defenders. In most of my games, I go straight from building muskets to Infantry, so the IA is a huge jump in defensive power. Even when I do build rifles, that's a significant jump from muskets. Truthfully, though, if I were to go back and do this again, I'd probably go Monarchy and AW. Those PTs slowed down this game quite a bit and I'm convinced that if I'd gone AW, I could have finished the game earlier, maybe as much as 50 or 100 years.

w00t :D Next: conquest with defensive units only....

Spears, Muskets and Pikes, oh my!

But,

by the time Infantry came into play....

:trouble:

Spears, Muskets and Pikes, oh my!

But,

by the time Infantry came into play....

:trouble:

Choose your Civ wisely and you may be able to get around some restrictions... e.g. Carthage, the much-maligned Numidian Merc is suddenly half-useful. Or how about Bowmen (2(1)-2-1) or Javelin throwers (2(1)-2-1+enslave) or LEGIONARIES (3-3-1)?

And do Samurai (4-4-2) count?