Seems I either go for Metal Casting or Code of Laws, but I'm curious if other players have preferences for one or the other or another tech altogether

usually metal casting for the colossus since I usually play financial and water maps :cool: its as good as cheating i know...

Sometimes if I have been fighting since 3000BC and whipped the living daylights out of my people, I have been forced to take monarchy . It breaks my heart to waste it like that but sometimes it is the only viable way to keep the roll on

From those 2 MC is the more expensive one, while CoL can be selfteched manually by the time you build Oracle or short after.

Other possibilites are Monarchy, Currency, Construction, on occasion CS.

This shouldn't be a "Allways do ..." thingie.

I have done Theology a few times. It can be pretty funny to reach the medieval age only a few turns after reaching the classical age this way.

Yeah if I play Ghenghis and i`m in that "economy eshonomy" mood then Theocracy is lots of fun to take.....mix with a Ger , barracks and a settled great general...you get the picture.

If you can pull it off with Cyrus and 3 GG`s then it starts to get silly but its damn hard to get three that quickly

You can get Feodalism too. Really expansive tech giving you an edge if you get it soon enough. It takes some wierd researching before I guess, because I only had it once in a while and it wasn't planned. But when you see "93 turns" and think "longbows", it seems a good choice, especially when you're about to attack everyone around.

Feudalism is by far my favorite tech to get from the Oracle.

Usually metalcasting, as it's the most expensive tech. I'm not sure how you could get feudalism. In all my games on emperor and monarch the oracle is always built far before anybody researches monarchy.

Metal Casting, just love those forges..

I don't build Oracle, I'm a warmonger.

I don't build Oracle, I'm a warmonger.

If you play a financial leader and/or have some good commerce tiles (e.g. gold/gem) to research monarchy early, the feudalism slingshot is great for a warmonger. The option of adopting vassalage before 1000BC and getting CR2/shock/medic I axes coming right out of gate is a dream for a warmonger. Then beeline to construction and you can start cranking out accuracy cats. This will allow you to take care of even the protective AIs.

The MC-machinery Oracle slingshot used by Qin & Mao also allows early Cho-Ku-Nu. If appears early, CKN are basically invincible.

I usually go for monarchy or a religious tech like theology. I really like to build the Oracle because it's usually quick, and it's like changing production to double-research (or something like that).

I'm not too fond of metal casting, since im not usually playing an IND leader and forges are expensive.
I pick what the situation calls for. I even did writing once because it was a race in a multiplayer OCC game *shame on me*.

often MC, if I even build it, to get me closer to maces. also this tech is better to trade around.

I was playing a game last night where I had a choice of either building the pyrimids or the Oracle (due to really weird starting location, my capital had no hills within site. Just green grass and sea food bonuses, my second city had lots of hills and forests to chop and build the pyramids). I chose the pyrimids because I had so many cottages Democracy would be nice. As well, axe rush fueled by police state may also be helpful. Latter on I began to regret my decision. I fell really far behind in techs and am struggling as of now. Maybe next time I will go for either both or only the oracle.

When I do build it I aim for Theology or Feudalism. I love free units. And the +2 XP is very nice to have, especially when I'm playing as a Charismatic leader.

I was playing a game last night where I had a choice of either building the pyrimids or the Oracle (due to really weird starting location, my capital had no hills within site. Just green grass and sea food bonuses, my second city had lots of hills and forests to chop and build the pyramids). I chose the pyrimids because I had so many cottages Democracy would be nice. As well, axe rush fueled by police state may also be helpful. Latter on I began to regret my decision. I fell really far behind in techs and am struggling as of now. Maybe next time I will go for either both or only the oracle.

You may already know this, but if you get the pyramids you want to have large cities (farms), choose Representation (the happy bonus helps too) and then run scientists in your cities (I think it's +6:science: per scientists in representation)

For the poll I usually choose Code of Laws unless I'm an industrial civ in which case I go for metal casting for the cheap forges. Waiting for Feudalism et al is virtually impossible in my games.

You may already know this, but if you get the pyramids you want to have large cities (farms), choose Representation (the happy bonus helps too) and then run scientists in your cities (I think it's +6:science: per scientists in representation)

I just want to add here that Police State is the most horrible thing you can do in the early game. I love the axe rush, but if I get the Pyramids, I always run either HR or Rep for the happy bonus. -50% war weariness is nothing, because weariness in the early years is so minor. +25% production is usually negligible as well. So, you get 20% more axemen built, but 5 axemen can often do just as well as 6. Not to mention that it's maintenance is 'High'.

If I get a strong start at Monarch or below, I might try for Civil Service.

Usually I go for Metal Casting, but I will always go for the Oracle. Even for something as unimpressive as Alphabet or Mathematics it's a decent hammer/beaker conversion, with culture and a GP source thrown in.

It depends. I like to choose a tech I'm not researching at the same time, and by the time I get the Oracle I am normally already onto or past Code of Laws (because I beeline it for the courthouses to keep my empire steadily in the green). Sometimes I take Monotheism to nick Judaism, particularly if Buddhism and Hinduism have both been founded elsewhere. I might take one of the more eclectic techs that's not an immediate necessity, like Aesthetics to break open the culture techs or, indeed, Monarchy so I can establish my government properly.

I don't think I've ever used it for Metal-Casting and I don't normally need it for Code of Laws. So it's really based on what I think is something necessary that wouldn't be an immediate priority for research but would lead to something nice.

Code of Laws, as long as I'm the first to get it. I may need it to found my first religion - and if I've already founded a religion, another never hurts.

I don't care about getting an expensive tech with The Oracle. If I'm building it, I just try to get it as soon as possible, fancy slingshots be damned. I usually end up getting Monarchy with it, but I may get Code of Laws for the religion. Monarchy is more important at that stage of the game than Metal Casting anyway.

One time I did a Machinery slingshot with it to get Chu Ko Nu's early. Pretty cool, in that respect.

It depends strongly of the game.... normally Monarcy, CoL or MC. Rarely Feud, CS or Machinery.

And completely unrelated.... in Earth 1000 AD scenario you can oracle Lib with some easie if you start as China or Japan :p Just for fun and hardly efficient ( if you can get lib with oracle, why don't get 2 free tech, one from Oracle and another form Lib..... Steel , here we go.. :lol: )

If I play on prince level, I usually get Feudalism (if on large continent/pangea map) -
but when I am "lost" alone on my island (or only with another civ), I tend to build oracle while manually researching metal casting, getting machinery as a free tech for fast contact to "the others".

On monarch its not that easy to get a good oracle slingshot, at least if your starting position lags :commerce: ... In my last game another civ got oracle VERY early and burried my early longbow dream. Damn, I was pissed. Next time I wont try a long slingshot at monarch, but be happy with metal casting or something else.

I never tried the civil service slingshot, I dont think its my type of free tech to achieve... on price maybe.
If going for religious spreading I go for Theology as free tech, because of early apostlic palace as defensive investion (war-votes...).

Generally, I will go for Metal Casting, especially if I manage to build the oracle particularly early. It requires a lot of beakers to research, particularly in the early game so getting it for free can free up some reserach time. It's also useful to get early forges, especially if your using the Industrious trait.

I am only likely to go for Code of Laws if religion is absent, or isn't very widespread on my continent, giving me the advantage to spread Confucianism, or I am in dire need of courthouses.

Well If I build the oracle I do it cause I want to get Civil Service. Early bureaucracy is really powerfull. If you miss out however the game is more often than not lost.

I never treid it on levels above nobel though, I don´t know if it´s even possible to pull of.

If I play on prince level, I usually get Feudalism (if on large continent/pangea map) -
but when I am "lost" alone on my island (or only with another civ), I tend to build oracle while manually researching metal casting, getting machinery as a free tech for fast contact to "the others".


If you get a decent island, another way is to delay the contact. By doing so, you can practically ignore the military for the first half of game. In this situation, I generally use the Oracle to get philosophy (get priesthood via meditation, not polytheism, start building the Oracle and research CoL). This is actually much easier than getting CS because Mathematics is not needed. Then I can switch to pacifism early paying min unit cost because of such a small army. Now I can either aim for a space race Victory (pushing for GS for multiple academies) or cultural victory (get a great priest to found Christianism as the 3rd religion). This works particularly well with a philosophical leader.

The MC-machinery Oracle slingshot used by Qin & Mao also allows early Cho-Ku-Nu. If appears early, CKN are basically invincible.

I accidently stumbled into this one of my first Civ games. Stonehenge city builds Pyramids, next turn pops a GE instead of GP. Couple turns later Oracle finishes. Fastest game ever.


Anyway, I'm a fan of Theology. Just because it's generally the greatest number of beakers possible for me, and thus the best "deal". I love Stonehenge, so if I've built Oracle as well I can rely on the imminent GP to bulb CoL.

Monarchy...

On immortal or diety its very likely that at this early stage there is only one thing going on ,EXTREME pressure.

So the Oracle may not provide you with the luxury of choosing whatever you want.

You may have to take monarchy if you have whipped the .... out of your people.

You may have a great spy from the GW but alphabet takes 134 turns due to warring... you will need some spies to steal techs.

Your neighbour may be Rome and surging on the power graph..you need machinery.

You need to take the tech thats going to help not just count the beakers

Usually Code of Law (found Confucianism, run Caste system).

I usually grab Fuedalism. You get the longbowmen, the unit bonus, the experience bonus and the increased productivity of the workers.

I usually go for code of law because about that time I starting to feel a maintenances tug at my gold reserves. And i rarely wait until it could reveal the more advanced traits you guys are talking about. and an extra religion never hurts

Usually I am researching code of laws when the oracle comes up. Depending on the strategic situation, i usually take metal casting or theology. i like having religions, both for monetary reasons and to make civs on other continents have culture and happiness issues until later in the game.

If I am not researching code of laws, I may take that.

Sometimes CoL, sometimes Monarchy, sometimes Fedualism, sometimes Metal Casting, rarely something else.

Not much of a planner, I chose the most expensive one

It's so map and leader dependent.

MC, CoL, Monarchy, Alphabet, Mathematics. Hell, even HBR, calendar, or Iron working may be called for in some situations.

I wish I could take feudalism with it, but it just comes too late :).

It greatly depends.

If I start with a gold or gems resource in the BFC I usually go for civil service.
If I have a philosofical leader I always get the alphabet so I can go for aestatics right after writing.
If I play Ramesses II I always want Theology and in every other cade I usually end up with either CoL or Metal Casting.

I usually get Monarchy or Metal Casting. I often don't get Bronze by the time I get the Oracle built. Why? Because, Monarchy lets me surpass ANY happiness cap.

If I get it I almost always take MC; I just love forges. Current game this has really paid off (absolutely SICK amount of gold/silver and lots of cottaged flood plains; health is getting hammered, but everyone's happy and I'm teching/rexing like a fiend).

If I go for the Oracle, it's usually for the metalcasting-machinery slingshot.

It's half way to macemen, and I have a fondness for the Vikings and Japanese, so that doesn't hurt. Early crossbows can also be killers, obviously tasty for the Chinese, but also pretty deadly in the hands of Sitting Bull or the Celts (Guerilla III and that gorgeous 50% withdraw rate).

The Colossus, while potentially profitable, is rather situational, and is obsolete a bit early for my tastes. I'll nab it if I can (if only for the Great Merchant points) but shed no tears if I miss out.

I have, on one occasion as Sitting Bull, nabbed feudalism after a lucky hut-pop for monarchy. My cities were untakeable for centuries, and longbows that early can make a respectable offensive force.

some have mentioned that they like MC to get early maces but CoL is one the way to the other tech required and gives tons of other benefits - courthouses, caste system can both really help

I go for theology to found Christianity.


Oh, the irony........

I go for theology to found Christianity.




you can usually bulb theology with the prophet from the oracle

the most expensive available.

I'm shocked nobody has said Theology because you can build the AP.

Wodan

I'm shocked nobody has said Theology because you can build the AP.
you can usually bulb theology with the prophet from the oracle
Why take a technology you have great odds to have for free anyway.

Metal/CoL - depends on my situation with my economy and how badly I need courthouses, although usually I chose metal casting.

Why take a technology you have great odds to have for free anyway.
How would you get it for free? Lightbulbing? Maybe because you'd rather spend that Prophet on a Shrine. Also because the earlier you get the AP the earlier you get the benefits.

Wodan

I often go for philosophy if I have a lot of food or pyramids. then you can run pacificism very early and get a big boost for liberalism later. I sometimes go for Civil service or COL or metal casting.

Usually theology. Getting early to medieval is nice, but getting a new religion so I can make money with the shrine is more important.

How would you get it for free? Lightbulbing? Maybe because you'd rather spend that Prophet on a Shrine. Also because the earlier you get the AP the earlier you get the benefits.

Wodan
If I get a GP, I can usually have a second one later. Using the Oracle on something I'll almost sure to have for free anyway just doesn't appeal to me. And if I have to take a religion from the Oracle, I'll take Col over Theology any day. Courthouses are better than the AP that early in the game.

Besides, the benefits of the Apocalyptic Palace in the beginning are low. I won't build monasteries and places of cult before I have granaries, barracks, workers, troops and enough cities. The diplomatic bonus is almost nihil too : either you're of the same religion and everything is ok, or you're not and relations are tense. It's later than things go more complex with the trades and demands, and the AP can wait that long.

Thirdly, the AP costs a HUGE amount of hammers, better spend in the beginning of the game in settlers, workers and troops. I sort of like the AP if conditions are reunited, but I won't prioritize it over land, economy and safety.

If I get a GP, I can usually have a second one later.
Generally, if you're getting Oracle, you already founded at least one religion, so Theology would be the 2nd one. So, we're really talking about 3 Prophets: one for the first shrine, one for the lightbulb of theology, one for the second shrine.

Using the Oracle on something I'll almost sure to have for free anyway just doesn't appeal to me.
Sure, I won't gainsay that. I'm just pointing out another possible benefit which increases the value of using Oracle to get Theology. That doesn't say the other possible candidates don't have their own value... of course they do.

And if I have to take a religion from the Oracle, I'll take Col over Theology any day. Courthouses are better than the AP that early in the game.
I think you underestimate the AP.

Sure, courthouses are a value. But, you can research CoL the long way. The question is whether it's worth getting a 3rd Prophet to do so vs switching over to Scientists or what have you.

I sort of like the AP if conditions are reunited, but I won't prioritize it over land, economy and safety.
I suppose we view it differently. I view the AP as a way to get those things faster. Yes, it has an up-front cost, all investments do. They pay off over the course of the game.

Wodan

TBH, I loathe the AP most of the time. See my last game, I founded the religion for my whole continent thanks to the CoL I picked from the Oracle, and built the AP long after that when a great engineer popped. The other guy got elected (of course the other guy got elected) and he kept sending "make peace with Navarre's enemy" each time the two others dudes were dowing on me. So, they dowed, pillaged my land while I was gathering my forces, and when I was about to take them out, peace, yay. And when I dowed on the furious, peace before I can take a city, twice.

So, the two extra hammers can go to hell.

Generally, if you're getting Oracle, you already founded at least one religion
Almost never. I usually research BW and the worker techs, and then i go Oracle. I don't compete in the initial Meditation/Polytheism race, and I find myself missing Monotheism most of the time. As does my whole continent usually. I seem to be doomed to be surrounded by warmongering wackos, no matter what. Ragnar, for exemple : even with random personalities, I always have the guy next to me and he usually has Monty's psyche. :mischief:

The AI can do nothing but founding religion in the start, and end with a crappy empire. But I play to win (or not to lose too hard too soon at least...). ;)

TBH, I loathe the AP most of the time. See my last game, I founded the religion for my whole continent thanks to the CoL I picked from the Oracle, and built the AP long after that when a great engineer popped.
A valid tactic you should try is to switch from your CoL religion to your Theo religion just before you pop the AP. What does this mean? It means the AP religion is a minority reigion, not the majority. It means you control when and how the religion spreads, for the most part. And, it means you control the voting. You are the master, and the AIs must bend to your whim or suffer a pretty huge happy penalty. Plus, you get the hammer bonus and they do not.

Whereas if the AP is the majority religion, yes you have good relations with everybody, but they get the hammer bonus and, as you found out, they often control the voting. So what's the point? It's a waste, by and large.

Wodan

Generally, if you're getting Oracle, you already founded at least one religion, so Theology would be the 2nd one.

I rarely found a religion before CoL. I usually go for BW first, then move up the religious branch for priesthood, then depending on whether i want CoL or MC I'll research writing or pottery.

Let me restate. Generally, if I'm getting Oracle, I've already founded at least one religion, so Theology would be the 2nd one.

Anyway, it's all moot to the point, which is whether to spend a prophet on lightbulbing knowing that you need 2 more prophets for shrines (one for CoL religion and one for Theo religion).

Wodan

Let me restate. Generally, if I'm getting Oracle, I've already founded at least one religion, so Theology would be the 2nd one.

Anyway, it's all moot to the point, which is whether to spend a prophet on lightbulbing knowing that you need 2 more prophets for shrines (one for CoL religion and one for Theo religion).

Wodan

I think if you know you're going to need two more prophets for shrines, I'd still burn him on getting theology. outside of caste, priests are by far the easiest specialists to make slots for. assuming that you've already founded a religion and you're chasing the oracle you're religion is going to be either buddhism, hinduism, or judaism, right? you take code of laws with the oracle and found confucianism, that's two religions you've founded. your first prophet you get from the oracle's GPP you use to found christianity. if you can spread all three religions to one city and build three temples, that's three priest spots, most likely in the BCs. by the time you get music you'll be able to open up an additional 6 spots with the cathedrals, and that's assuming you don't get any foreign religions spread. I think with 9 priests running you shouldn't have any problem popping out enough great prophets to shrine your cities.

Well, having as previously mentioned bagged feudalism by luck (hut-popped monarchy), I've done a bit of experimenting and I can Oracle it, but need tight teching (and sufficient research funds).

I've just played Churchill* up to redcoats and banking, going the MC route and it worked quite well (Guerilla III and Drill IV redcoats from upgraded crossbows). I'm going to start another and instead try feudalism, which synergises well with protective, and is about a third more expensive than MC, both being on the way to guilds (essential for the English) and so gunpowder.

If I can pull it off, and it doesn't rely on too much luck, I may amend my Oracle choice to MC/feudalism.


*Thread hijack avoidance: Looking for a good leader for gunpowder warfare, but I'll start another thread for that

I go for whatever tech requires the most tech points.

I think if you know you're going to need two more prophets for shrines, I'd still burn him on getting theology. outside of caste, priests are by far the easiest specialists to make slots for. assuming that you've already founded a religion and you're chasing the oracle you're religion is going to be either buddhism, hinduism, or judaism, right? you take code of laws with the oracle and found confucianism, that's two religions you've founded. your first prophet you get from the oracle's GPP you use to found christianity. if you can spread all three religions to one city and build three temples, that's three priest spots, most likely in the BCs. by the time you get music you'll be able to open up an additional 6 spots with the cathedrals, and that's assuming you don't get any foreign religions spread. I think with 9 priests running you shouldn't have any problem popping out enough great prophets to shrine your cities.
All fine... but there's a cost to all that. You're running priests, so you aren't running engineers or scientists. That changes your economic income, which will have ramifications you may not desire to have. Also, you have to trade a GE or GS for that prophet, which means you're giving up a scientist lightbulb, or a wonder pop, or an Academy.

Wodan

Metal Casting, usually. With an occasional side of Machinery(I'll never forget that one game where I got Machinery with the Oracle and then a Steel slingshot with Liberalism...) or Currency if I'm strapped for funds.

Got Music once too, I think...