Intelligence Thread: Lincoln Babylonia

Babylonia: Bowmen, Garden
Lincoln: Charismatic Philosophical

This one is related to Alexander in a way. Very strong city defenses.

One thing I have experienced with lincoln in the past is that he is very willing to make peace in a war.

I stole 5 workers from him one game. Just taking a worker, getting a neutral piece, rinse and recycle.

We have not made any decisions on who to be friends with or who to attack yet, as we do not know the positions and land of our rival Civ's, but I wanted to put out there the discussion of what we must do if we have to fight either of the civs we have come in cotact so far.


We met Licoln later so he may be father away.


Longbowman Bonus is +50% to melee units.

Makes Lincoln very difficult to warrior, axe rush, even swords are in trouble.

Fact is though that we have horsies in our fat cross, so If we choose to not be nice to him I think we will need to take him out with chariots or horse archers. If we were to do this we would need to make sure that he does not get acess to copper (no axes) but some chariots should be able to worker steal and pillage improvements.


I am not suggesting immediate war but with mixed leader I feel it is good to discuss how to fight each civ if we have to war with them, but want to simply discuss how we need to apporach further development in light of this

If he gets axes thats not really a big problem; chariots eat them for breakfast.

However, I think we should lay off Lincoln for awhile so those pesky bowmen are gone, unless we really really have to interfere.

I think it all depends on location of the capitals. I am hoping Hatty is closer as we met her very early, so that she becomes our target and Lincoln our friend, at least for early game.

We still need to find some northern bulwark, a sort of defensive position/fortress system up north, so we can catch the Bowmen in the open with defense bonuses. Horseman archers or chariots would do it, but I think we may need both a military city for the northern defense and another cultural defensive city more to patch up Faith and Warlords cities (a 4th city).

Lincoln AI behaviour

Favourite Civic: Emancipation
Favourite Religion: Christianity
favors: science, growth
builds wonders: extreme:--x----:never
trains units: extreme:---x--:rarely
aggression level: very high:----x-:very low
espionage level: extreme:---x------:minimal
tech trading: very averse:---x:willing
attack courage: extreme:--x-:normal
will raze city: never:x-----:very often
refuses to talk delay: short:-x---:very long

This means we can have a normal defense city towards Babylon as well, or an offensive capability city, depending on how we see it. With these, we need an active defense in the open, if they cross grass, plains or desert, and win with mounted archers or chariots over their bowmen in the open. Active defense would be the key here for a while.

With his willingness to tech trade, I think we should be friendly with Lincoln not attacking him till later in the game if at all.


If we open boarder and make trades with him, he should not be a serious sneak attack threat.

I can agree to this. We should have open borders for both of these, and embrace the religion that comes if there is any.

With his willingness to tech trade, I think we should be friendly with Lincoln not attacking him till later in the game if at all.

Strange, Lincoln is always a bit cold towards me, i can never seem to get OB's until at least 20 turns after meeting him.

I agree that we should befriend Lincoln. I would rather have us kill off Hatty, especially so since she will be strong in the later eras with spains uniques. Only problem is that her culture also boosts defences of her cities. I agree with blastoid in the idea ot quickly get a chariot into her lands and raid, although she might take it out with archers.

She'd likely need to attack with 2 archers on the same turn to kill a full strength chariot. We could probably avoid that.

She'd likely need to attack with 2 archers on the same turn to kill a full strength chariot. We could probably avoid that.

Agree but when choking, you have to stay close to avoid any runaways. Also, Chariots do not get defensive bonuses, so it would under very circumstances be able to fend off two archers, and even one would pose problems (3:strength:v4:strength: is around 30%, right? 26? 33?)

With his willingness to tech trade, I think we should be friendly with Lincoln not attacking him till later in the game if at all.

If we open boarder and make trades with him, he should not be a serious sneak attack threat.

Agree with this approach. If we're looking at a possible ancient war with Hatshepsut, maintaining good relations with another close neighbor makes that war easier. We might need to consider making sure Lincoln would not help Hatshepsut if we do attack.

-- Ravensfire

(3:strength:v4:strength: is around 30%, right? 26? 33?)

Ah, the beauty of math.

From 3's point of view, 4 is 133% or 33% extra.
From 4's point of view, 3 is 75% or 25% less.

Ah, the beauty of math.

From 3's point of view, 4 is 133% or 33% extra.
From 4's point of view, 3 is 75% or 25% less.

Heh. I meant what are the combat odds:
Archer
3 :strength:
1 first strike (?)

against

Chariot
4:strength:

?

I was merely guessing the % odds of the archer winning, I do know how to calculate percentages and strength modifiers, what I need to know is the actual odds of a victory for the archer? :p

Strange, Lincoln is always a bit cold towards me, i can never seem to get OB's until at least 20 turns after meeting him.

How often do you have the slavery civic enabled when you meet him?

Chariot rush Hatty. Open hand of embrace to Lincoln. Hatty's culture and proximity are an extreme threat.

Lets leave Hatty till she founds a religion, which is likely due to her Spiritual trait + Mysticysm starting tech, then we take her out.

How often do you have the slavery civic enabled when you meet him

I don't usally have the slavery civic at all throughout a game.

I don't usally have the slavery civic at all throughout a game.

Then you don't play with Raging Barbarians ;)

Lincoln is a defensive AI, and if you have Representation up, then he loves you. Respect him and he leaves you alone. I've never had ol' Abe attack me. I have destroyed him many times, though.

Then you don't play with Raging Barbarians ;)

I did once, but luckily I was on a strip of land that had China at the top and Portugal at the bottom and they got completely mullered by barbs :D