Deity Challenge 3 - Monty the Ultimate Diplomat [Archive]

ABigCivFan

Apr 10, 2008, 11:04 PM

500BC

KK is my strong neighbour, now our top priority is to suck up to him so he does not kill our puny nation. So i switched to his (and MM's) Christian religion the first chance I got. and Switched to OR+HR. It was great timing to apply the 25% prod bonus to GL. 2nd prod city buildig Jags as happy police.

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/4/10/f_500BCreligim_b279198.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/10/f_500BCreligim_b279198.jpg&srv=img34)

Capital, 2 turns to finish GL, has 3 villages already.

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/4/10/f_500BCCapitam_00ac48d.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/10/f_500BCCapitam_00ac48d.jpg&srv=img34)

KK is Cautious, MM is pleased. We hold off on trading away Literature until GL built.

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/4/4/10/f_500BCKKattim_744ebce.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/10/f_500BCKKattim_744ebce.jpg&srv=img32)

Favorite civics, KK likes Beauracracy, next research priority is COL/CS. HR is Sul's favor.

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/4/4/10/f_500BCcivinfm_cb84fa3.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/10/f_500BCcivinfm_cb84fa3.jpg&srv=img30)

So the plan for now is befriend KK and MM pretending to be a faithful Christian, the goal is to get KK friendly/Bribable And MM friendly so we can whore tech with him for as long as possible.

After GL, will build more settler/worker to claim more land to the West. And Use capital as a part-time GP farm to get those 3-4 GS needed for Liberalism. This capital is perfect for swicthing between GP farm/Wonder production roles.

Strato

Apr 11, 2008, 04:45 AM

Its great to read the deity games and get some nicely summarised insight into the sort of thinking involved. Would you envisage any jag rushes here, or is the focus simply to expand and cut off the other opponents?

tycoonist

Apr 11, 2008, 05:19 AM

Munch

Apr 11, 2008, 07:18 AM

Haha, "happy police".

Your capital is phenomenal, certainly looks like it was a good idea to move 1S for corn and two mines (did you know about them already or was it great luck?).

I'm curious though, why didn't you build Teotihuacan 1E? The net (or is that "gross"?) difference being that you lose one non-irrigated grassland and gain two irrigated plains, an irrigated plains hill and a tundra hill. Was it because of distance maintainance? Fear of Mongol culture? It certainly can't be to work the flood plains immediately, because they were already claimed by the capital's culture...

Rusten

Apr 11, 2008, 10:42 AM

Decided to have a go – 375 BC:

First thing that popped into my head given the high commerce and production start was axe rush, but having Kublai as the only close neighbour is just evil. He’s high on my list of least favourite AIs to rush. I have a look around and notice the stone and a huge amount of territory. Being able to settle several cities shouldn’t be a problem here so I decide to make a run for the Pyramids – I can afford a little slower earlygame.

Made archers while growing and tried to optimise my build order for as fast as possible Pyramids while still having defence. I pre-chopped some forests while waiting for the settler to enable the stone and made a 2nd worker in the capital for faster chopping. The Oracle went at turn 35 or something this game, at the same time as the Stonehenge(!) :D

I Finished the Pyramids at 1400 BC. Note those 2 archers protecting our important improvements from barbarians.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/6098/md20000xl4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1240 BC – HE unlocked:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1339/md30000sw0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Another good reason for the Pyramids is that we have no marble, thus the Great Library could be hard to get. With this in mind I avoided running too many scientists and in 500 BC we spawn a GE which rushes the GL for us.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/1347/rushgljh1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Some trades for spare change:

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/2573/md30001gi0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The tech pace is really fast this game--2 civs having currency already.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3827/md40000gb3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Further plans: settle westwards. Mansa Musa finally sent a confucian missionary to me so maybe I should adapt that religion to befriend him and Kublai. The downside is that we're sandwiched between everyone so bad diplomacy can be the doom of the aztec people. Pacifism is still too good to pass up on though, so I will probably adopt Confucianism - if only for a little while.

Hannibal already founded Taoism (450 BC) but I will bulb philosophy regardless.

Really an amazing mix of AIs for a random game. Got the techer, the zealot, the aggressor and a wonder-dude. This will be tough.

Izzy has enough on her hands (will probably attack Kublai) and HC too (don't know what he's up to but at least he's nowhere near me).

ABigCivFan

Apr 11, 2008, 11:07 AM

Would you envisage any jag rushes here, or is the focus simply to expand and cut off the other opponents?

No rush. Actually I was doing everything i could so that i dont get rushed myself.

I put all my espionage pts on KK, and his power curve towers me. The chance of fighting a successful pre-rifle war for human on deity is quite low.

I built Jags for happy police instead of Axe simply because they get 2 free promotions. They probably would not see any action except against barbs.

@Munch

Yes the starting location is worth a debate. I gave the reason for both locations, but end up go for 1 south to optimize number of river tiles (commerce, later hammers from levee), reduce :yuck:, and leaving enough floods for another good city.

@Rusten

Wow, pyramid is a bold move. The only down side i see is it delayed you expansion to the East where KK is gobbling up the lands there. Do you plan to hurry to claim those Furs/silver? that spot is too good to pass on. Also see you building Shadwa Paya, i would pass on this wonder and crank out some settlers. But maybe you are only building it while you are growing your population in Capital.

Rusten

Apr 11, 2008, 12:48 PM

@Rusten

Wow, pyramid is a bold move. The only down side i see is it delayed you expansion to the East where KK is gobbling up the lands there. Do you plan to hurry to claim those Furs/silver? that spot is too good to pass on. Also see you building Shadwa Paya, i would pass on this wonder and crank out some settlers. But maybe you are only building it while you are growing your population in Capital.

Your take on the S. Paya is correct; I was just building it temporarily for cash (got the resource for it), not to finish it. I'm stopping where it's at now and will go ahead with settlers because currency/CoL is coming up; the new cities will be of benefit right away.

Got a settler with eta 1 at the point of the save - that one will go for furs/silver/iron. It's a city output-wise, but gaining all of those resources makes it excellent regardless. I can sell the surplus ones for huge amounts of gold per turn. I don't mind giving Kublai space tbh, because if he settles around me I won't border Izzy (she won't like me when I adopt a religion). Kublai will provide a very neat safe-zone east/north as long as I get him to like me. Then I can focus most of my efforts on Suleiman and the other western civs.

Rusten

Apr 11, 2008, 04:37 PM

500 BC -> 520 AD
These AIs sure are annoying. I've lost track of how many times I've gotten asked for techs or other requests. Here's an example; Izzy demanded something twice in 4 turns.

http://illegalt.net/gallery/d/260-1/mdg%2310000.JPG

Regardless it seems I played my cards right because here I am at 520 AD all safe. Several pleased and nobody's got their hands full (except those already at war). KK has been warring with Izzy up until shortly as expected and Suleiman with Hannibal.

Happy about my game so far. I'm at a point where I have several options, but I decided to go for cuirassiers and drafted muskets as some AIs are a little behind in techs (ETA 11 on MT). I should be able to wipe out or vassal someone soon. I'm thinking of attacking Izzy as she has a shrine and the AP. If I get rid of her I'll only have to worry about 1 front.

Got liberalism at ~400 AD and picked Nationalism. Tenochtitlan is currently getting the Taj Mahal while doing the last remaining techs and Teotihuacan is 2 turns away from Moai Statues. I will queue up HE afterwards. Teotihuacan will be an excellent production city. It will be able to amass a great number of cuirassiers.

I should be able to win this unless something unexpected occurs, I'm in a very good position and I doubt Izzy will be able to stop my planned attack. I also managed to grab all 3 granary resources (rice, wheat and corn) in addition to all three sources of seafood (clam, crab and fish) so health won't be much of an issue. Currently sitting at 8 cities, but most of them are small still. Unfortunately I got to the furs/silver/iron city 2 turns too late. Kublai's culture expanded and I could no longer put a city there. Very uncool, I should've been faster. Settled a city there anyway (iron+silver).

Will probably delay playing further for a little while, got a game in another thread as well, but we'll see, I'm really looking forward to the continuation.

http://illegalt.net/gallery/d/263-1/mdg+%2330000.JPG

VirusMonster

Apr 11, 2008, 07:29 PM

Rusten, how can you be in such a great tech lead against those Deity AIs? Please elaborate :)

ABigCivFan

Apr 11, 2008, 09:35 PM

1000AD

Diplomacy is the focus of this thread. I will fast forward to 1000AD. Researching Dem for Emancipation. Now capital is almost max out on Pop, will convert the rest of of farms to cottages, it built Oxford, GL, NE and UOS as a GScientist farm only, but from now the GP are not as important anymore.

I got KK friendly, he had a war with MM already, so he will likely continue his war with MM (or Issy) if he needs to attack somebody. So it was safe for me to swith to Budda and improve my relations with the other powers (Han, Sul and HC). Now all the score leaders and military monsters (Han, KK and Sul) are pleased with me. And they each have at least 1 enemy.

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/4/4/11/f_1000ADRelatm_d910f5c.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/11/f_1000ADRelatm_d910f5c.jpg&srv=img33)

Look at the trade screen, I held off my tech trades with MM for Hundreds of years since Han is Annoyed with MM, so if I trade tech with MM, I would suffer at least -2 relations with Han which I could not afford. So I end up self-researched some of the tradable techs notably Economics. It is extremely important to do anything to keep the relations good with the more powerful AIs Until you are ready to backstab them.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/4/11/f_1000ADTechsm_f5802a9.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/11/f_1000ADTechsm_f5802a9.jpg&srv=img26)

Check out the mini map for AI locations. We are surrounded by Sul, KK, Issy. My plan was to keep KK busy with Issy and MM; Sul busy with Han. However, Han later got in a war with MM and Issy, So I came up with the idea to bribe KK to war with Sul!

Sul liked me so much he was still Pleased with me even after my backstab, I had OB with everyone, was real funny to see tens of AI units crossing my territory to attack each other, and I was happy to lend my road to everyone for FREE. :lol:

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/4/11/f_1000ADreligm_d36f244.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/11/f_1000ADreligm_d36f244.jpg&srv=img26)

ABigCivFan

Apr 11, 2008, 09:58 PM

1600AD

Relations:

I was only in phony wars with MM and Cyrus(1 city non-factor) requested by Han.

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/4/11/f_1600ADrelatm_cf8ae42.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/11/f_1600ADrelatm_cf8ae42.jpg&srv=img27)

And this is really what I was up to, 27 Combat3 Infantry + Artillary and ready to backstab Han, taking his lone Eastern city for Wine and Crab. :D

http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/4/4/11/f_1600ADDOWHam_284cf8b.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/11/f_1600ADDOWHam_284cf8b.jpg&srv=img36)

This is where I am at now. My plan is quickly taking that Carthage city, stop waring Han, and quickly turn around for a full-scale Sandwich war against KK while he is still slugging out with MM on the far East. My West flank is safe with my friend Sul on Han.

Spy report from Far East where MM is battling KK, look MM is no push over this game, he is for sure giving KK some major pain.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/4/11/f_1600ADMMtoum_2aafcd4.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/11/f_1600ADMMtoum_2aafcd4.jpg&srv=img26)

I built Pentagon, and have West Point + Military Academy in my HE city, take a peep in here, it is dishing out a CR3 tank each turn!

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/4/11/f_1600ADHEcitm_ee233af.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/11/f_1600ADHEcitm_ee233af.jpg&srv=img27)

BurN

Apr 12, 2008, 02:41 PM

Played till 150AD. Situation looks .. decent but I do have a problem. :lol:

- 4000BC: Settle in place. Discover stone and later the corn down south which is rather annoying to grab from this position.

- 2200BC: Grew pop till 6 while building barracks+archers. So many barbs it's driving me crazy.

- 1760BC: Second city settled 2S of the copper.

- 1200BC: Got the food event with KK, +3 diplo I feel a bit safer. Also 3rd city 1S of ivory.

- 900BC: Fourth city 1W of fur.

- 975BC: Maths to MM for IW.

- 725BC: Izzy demands maths, which I give.

- 625BC: KK demands to cancel deals with MM, I agree.

- 600BC: HG complete, extra health is welcome for the capital.

- 475BC: Trade currency to MM for Alph. KK and Suleiman are lagging in techs.

- 450BC: KK converts to Buddhism, Izzy & MM are Buddhist too. Really annoying, I still have no idea where the rest of the AI's are .. haven't been scouting much westwards. I convert to Buddhism too.

- 350BC: I meet Hannibal, he's at war with Sulei .. probably one of the reasons why Suleiman's expansion is really slow.

- 300BC: 5th city settled. 2N of the wheat, grabbing fish & cow. This will be GP farm.

- 200BC: HC dows Sulei.

- 175BC: KK gives me poly for free.

- 150BC: KK offers me monarchy vs currency, I agree.

- 25AD: First GS .. bulb phil & switch to paci. Still no sign of Suleiman's expansion wtf. There's a lot of land open to the west with 3 barb citie. But I'm afraid to expand and kill my eco. No one but Izzy has phil, no one but MM has CS. I will likely win lib at this rate.

- 125AD: MM gifts me Aesthetics.

- 150AD: Stopped playing, about to start research on paper. Overview:

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9053/civ4screenshot0059er0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/633/civ4screenshot0060ov0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/6948/civ4screenshot0061gb9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/9096/civ4screenshot0062ip5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3388/civ4screenshot0056wx1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3702/civ4screenshot0058tt3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Recap:

Tech wise I'm fine, I will get 2x GS in the next 7 turns which will bulb me edu, I don't doubt I will get lib.

Land wise, I have 6 cities which is enough for now but I need land asap. I'll probably send some units to grab the barbs cities soon. Or at least the southern and the eastern one.

Diplo wise I'm in an annoying position. Maybe some advice needed here, if I switch to FR .. am I still under the AP? (which is obviously owned by izzy).

I don't want to fight sulei or Han from this geographic position. I would be much better of if I can peacefully settle 2-3 more cities west and dow KK with a tech advantage.

Now my problem Sulei is losing the war vs Han & HC. If they don't stop soon he will get vassaled AND I'm not in a good diplo pos with Han, these two things combined would get problematic. I need to see if I can bribe them to peace. But this is a double edged sword, if they sign peace .. Sulei will expand south claiming those barb cities no doubt.

But this is just 1 problem, the other one is that Izzy, KK and MM are all Buddhist. I would love to dow KK but I might get dogpiled AND AP will be a pain in the ass.

If I can be honest I'm not too sure where to go from here. I'm sure i can hit riffles before either KK, Sulei or Han. The question is who to hit. :)

Hmm .. maybe I can bribe KK to a different religion since he owns christianity but I'll check that next time. I can't bribe anyone into war atm, it is available but apparently I don't have enough breakers to offer.

ABigCivFan

Apr 12, 2008, 11:20 PM

BurN

Apr 13, 2008, 12:26 AM

@Burn

Here are a few things I might try in your situiation:

1. Although I did not get a chace to expand west in my game (those barb cities got taken by Han and Sul. But I would recommand sending some Jags over to claim those Rice, wine, and Crab, these health resources would serve you well in the long term. I delayed my HE for a while thinking building it in the stone city(coastal), but later realized Teo (same spot in your game) is an excellent early HE city. Claiming those barb cities seem very doable in your game.

2. If Hun and JC are winning against Sul, you can try trade for Feudalism from MM or KK and gift it to Sul, with Longbows, he can for sure survive much better. and Later after you get education, see if you could bribe KK into waring Han, prob want to keep Sul, KK and MM as your friends until you become a strong military power.

3. Techwise looking good, Univ and Oxford are priorities with a capital like this :)

Hm good point on feud but I'm not to keen on trading atm, Izzy already went into wfyabta. I have an archer closeby Sulei's land, I should take a look what units are fighting there atm. Hannibal might hit CS or guilds soon, which would be bad for Sulei.

As for the whole western lands still being open, it kinda got me by surprise. Since I couldn't really afford putting cities there earlier, I just went "let Suleiman have it, I'm fine with 6-7 cities". But that still didn't happen so .. :lol: Problem is I don't have many units to spare atm, I have 2 or 3 jags and the rest of my units are just crap happy units.

I'm pretty low on prod now as well. Teoti has plenty of hammers but I am running scientists there. One will pop in 3 turns I think, then it will be set to hammers. Maybe I could get some fast units out of the capital, it will hurt growth a bit but it should be worth it. I would only need 3-4 more jags and I should be able to take the crab city. If I make a settler, I can grab the rice+iron+wine.

Yea if I could get KK to dow Han that would be nice. I don't have to fear much from the Buddhist side as long as I don't go into FR everyone is friendly. But KK is rather backwards, I don't think his powergraph can come close to Hannibal's so he might not want to dow.

As for HE, I haven't unlocked it. :mischief:

Sleepless

Apr 16, 2008, 10:47 AM

75BC and stuffed :)

Well I played until Sul declared on me unexpectedly. :( Seemed to be going ok (probably not though :lol:) then noticed a big stack on my borders and Suls DoW.

Shame as he traded me monarchy but didn't go into it himself for fav civic bonus :cry:.

It was getting quite interesting diplo wise as well. Isa Hind, Khan Jud, Mansa Conf. Han, HC and Sul were all Bud. On the turn Sul declared on me Han declared on HC so there was lots of strife going around. :)

I don't think I could have done anything to stop Sul attacking me but any advice or tips would be a help. Could you build enough troops to raise your power level high enough against deity AI early on and if so how many would be needed?

Plus points Mansa gifted me IW I haven't had that for a while ;). Seemed I settled my cities as most of you did.

I will try this game again as its a great starting position with room to expand although Sul will probably want the capital again. Can't say I blame him. :lol:

ABigCivFan

Apr 16, 2008, 11:37 AM

1650AD: Izzy DOWs me, what she was thinking, Cavalry charge the tanks?

http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/4/4/16/f_1650ADIzzyDm_e61026e.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1650ADIzzyDm_e61026e.jpg&srv=img37)

I had been preparing a war against KK, Izzy will give me some nice training XP and GG pts.

1680AD: KK DOWs me which is what I wanted.

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/4/4/16/f_1680ADKKDowm_f7ea17d.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1680ADKKDowm_f7ea17d.jpg&srv=img01)

1680AD: After killing large # of Spanish troops, I ended war with Izzy and concentrate on KK.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/4/16/f_1680ADEndIzm_8771648.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1680ADEndIzm_8771648.jpg&srv=img26)

1680AD: I had huge veteran stacks stationed by Mongol border cities with 1 Medic 3 GG. So the collateral damaged delt by KK arties are healed in 1 turn. I had mixed Combat+Ambush+Pinch tanks to deal with the initial enemy assault force. the CR3 tanks are saved for later city taking. Defense for now.

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/4/16/f_1680ADfirstm_73f378b.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1680ADfirstm_73f378b.jpg&srv=img27)

1680AD: Unit summary. small but high quality troops (Pentagon+Theocracy+WP).

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/4/4/16/f_1680ADMilitm_08db873.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1680ADMilitm_08db873.jpg&srv=img32)

1700AD: Note KK had a lone barb city to the West, and he was invading from 2 directions. My Ambush tanks are sniping KK tanks with high winning odds. Railroad covers my entire empire for a mobile war.

http://img33.picoodle.com/img/img33/4/4/16/f_1700ADfightm_686aa44.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1700ADfightm_686aa44.jpg&srv=img33)

1700AD: I went on offensive after destroying large #s of KK attack forces. First city captured, look 3 settled GGs + Mil Academy!

http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/4/4/16/f_1700AD1stKKm_3e13c62.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1700AD1stKKm_3e13c62.jpg&srv=img02)

1710AD: KK had workshops everywhere focusing on Troop production, I used some very cheap spy missions (Foment Unhappiness) to reduce his production ability.

http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/4/4/16/f_1710ADreducm_262b6b8.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1710ADreducm_262b6b8.jpg&srv=img36)

1715AD: Battle of Tabriz. Will use Spy to incite revolt and need to sacrifice some Arties for this kind of defenses.

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/4/4/16/f_1715ADbattlm_d2c4216.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1715ADbattlm_d2c4216.jpg&srv=img01)

1720AD: After taking 2 KK cities, i have large # of wonded troops, WW is setting in after continuous war. And I really need to focus on teching now to reach computer first for Internet, then Space Elevator. So I used everything i have an maximized Mongol kills in this turn and entered peace talks with KK.

http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/4/4/16/f_1720ADmaximm_c00a438.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1720ADmaximm_c00a438.jpg&srv=img28)

1720AD: Look at this deal, I ordered KK to switch to Budda, and now MM really hates KK. Step by step, I fomented hatry into all leading AIs with each other.

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/4/4/16/f_1720ADpeacem_bff63eb.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1720ADpeacem_bff63eb.jpg&srv=img32)

1730AD: Dem chart. Still trailing Sul by large land margins, only good note here is the Mfg Goods. My teching had been focused on the key modern wonders, Pentagen, Chrit Rend, Effel Tower, Three Gorges, Internet, Space Elevator/Mech Infantry. And I was able to get them all in this game. These wonders really help a smaller nation like mine to keep up with large Deity AIs in a tight race.

Key strategic note: No matter what happens, I need to be prepared to enter a space race(space elevator), and having the military capability to stop someone from winning a cultural and space race.

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/4/4/16/f_1730ADdemchm_bd809e5.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1730ADdemchm_bd809e5.jpg&srv=img01)

1735AD: Izzy is a soft target, I can easily grab some more land and that important Rice and silk from her 2 southern cities before she gets Arty. So I DOWed her again. And I have the necessary means to achieve (promotions).

http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/4/4/16/f_1735ADDOWonm_4f6f4ed.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1735ADDOWonm_4f6f4ed.jpg&srv=img29)

1735AD: Spy found Izzy's Main force. She does have a large cannon force, but I put all my troops in a single stack with the MEdic 3 gg to deal with potential Collateral damage.

http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/4/4/16/f_1735ADIzzymm_597701f.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1735ADIzzymm_597701f.jpg&srv=img36)

1735AD: Spy report Sul (with good mixed troops) gaining ground on Han. I quickly gifted Industrialism to Hannibal (tanks).

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/4/4/16/f_1735ADSulonm_2eb1fef.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1735ADSulonm_2eb1fef.jpg&srv=img01)

1745AD: Spanish cannons/Cav/Infantry charging my tanks. Free XP.

http://img02.picoodle.com/img/img02/4/4/16/f_1745ADfreexm_0b722fc.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1745ADfreexm_0b722fc.jpg&srv=img02)

1745AD: Sul is my only resource trade partener. So trade only what I need.
Need banana,pigs,suger for health, copper and Iron for my Mining Inc. bonus. I do not need alumanum and stone for now.

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/4/4/16/f_1745ADsulrem_f30b33e.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1745ADsulrem_f30b33e.jpg&srv=img01)

1760AD: I fear Sul grows too powerful by taking out Han, and need Han to be relatively healthy to keep Sul in check later. So I asked Sul to spare Han for now. Besides, I had other plans for Sul....

http://img37.picoodle.com/img/img37/4/4/16/f_1760ADsparem_1fa6e7f.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1760ADsparem_1fa6e7f.jpg&srv=img37)

1765AD: I achieved my objective against Spain Gain rice+silk, taking her 2 cities and destroy her large forces. So I quickly stop war against her to focus on Internet and res Robotics.

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/4/4/16/f_1765ADSpanim_74dd4b1.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1765ADSpanim_74dd4b1.jpg&srv=img32)

1765AD: Sul the tool. I paid very high price for Sul to DOW KK, so I have successfully got the top 3 military AIs to enter a multi-front war. I kept that lone Mongol city to the West and Open border with everyone, so KK can use that city as a base to threat Sul's Eastern front. Now Sul is sandwithed between Han and KK, leaving me with a lot of strategic choices:

1. triple team Sul (Han hates him will attack anytime) with KK and Han
2. Doulbe team KK to gain more land to the East.
3. Backstab Han if his culture is getting too high
4. Let them fight, sit and build ship
5. Attack MM if he is winning the space race

I think the most likely case is a mix of 2,3,4,5, Sul will be slowed by Han and KK and he is not immediate threat to culture (Han) and space (MM).

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/4/16/f_1765ADSulthm_4aa8282.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1765ADSulthm_4aa8282.jpg&srv=img26)

BurN

Apr 16, 2008, 12:00 PM

Looks like a good game abcf. If you get internet it should be easy space win hm? I really should continue my game but this game reminds me why I prefer immortal over deity. Too much effort trying not to make any mistakes. :mischief: I really have to be in the mood to continue this.

I'm thinking of just grabbing all the land to the west and just spam cottages everywhere and hope MM doesn't outtech me. :rolleyes: Beelining riffles seems pointless in my game. KK under AP .. is going to get me a lot of unhappiness due defying and WW. Since my buddhist block is all pleased/friendly .. I could just chill out and tech while Sulei, HC and Han waste their time fighting each other. Maybe I could bribe KK into war with MM later when one of them switches to FR.

ps: I can get Han into peace for CS, which I will probably go for. But I won't trade phil for feud, especially not to KK since it opens Nationalism he will very likely tech it. But I will probably gift Sulei military techs in the future so he doesn't end up capitulating.

ABigCivFan

Apr 16, 2008, 01:09 PM

The essence of Chinese Tai Chi is "Using 4 lbs of force to move a ton of force". In our case 4 lbs are our strategic bribes and the ton is hundreds of AI units + their entire production capacity wasting on each other.

1770AD: Having a few air ships are very handy. They really help your small naval force and they are great for recon, they fly over and reveals every single tile on their fly path, great for war preparation.

Look how many Corporate executives are in KK's citis? Corporation could be a distraction to Deity AIs, they spam these guys when they really need to be building Mil units.

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/4/16/f_1770ADAirshm_ea0167b.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1770ADAirshm_ea0167b.jpg&srv=img27)

1780AD: Age of the Internet, Mark Andresson must be jealous that we beat him to it by 200 years lol. It backed filled a couple of techs.

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/4/4/16/f_1780ADAgeofm_1c53285.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1780ADAgeofm_1c53285.jpg&srv=img30)

1790AD: my highly promoted SOD, I value everyone of my units. By using superior tactics/unit mix and targets, you can really build an awesome force by increasing winning odds and survival rates.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/4/16/f_1790ADhighlm_a0c7901.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1790ADhighlm_a0c7901.jpg&srv=img26)

1790AD: Sul's unprotected Arty stack, so silly.

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/4/4/16/f_1790ADSulunm_babeb4a.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1790ADSulunm_babeb4a.jpg&srv=img30)

1795AD: Resource trade renegotiation, I took back alumunum when i am ready to build Apollo. Still not a bad dea, the AIs treasure Oil.

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/4/4/16/f_1795ADrestrm_72ce48a.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1795ADrestrm_72ce48a.jpg&srv=img30)

1820AD: KK on Sul. KK used my railroad to move huge stacks of forces to the Western front against Sul, This is beatiful. If I want to attack KK, his bulk offensive force will be handled by Sul on the West, and I can have a easy time taking his homeland cities to the East. And If I want to backstab Sul I will have a capable war ally.

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/4/16/f_1820ADKKonSm_be3ffbc.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1820ADKKonSm_be3ffbc.jpg&srv=img27)

1822AD: In the mean time, my Great Spy reports Han and Sul having a staring match to the Far West. Han is likely to DOW Sul anytime.

http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/4/4/16/f_1822ADHanSum_2fa8882.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1822ADHanSum_2fa8882.jpg&srv=img03)

1828AD: Han DOWs Sul. My G. Spy watches Carthage turns Legendary.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/4/16/f_1828ADHanDom_2898a69.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1828ADHanDom_2898a69.jpg&srv=img26)

1828AD: My city summary. Focusing on res and infrustructure in new cities.

With Mining Inc, I have 8 cities with very high Production rate in war, having 5 Military Academies atm. 13 turns to complete space elevator.

http://img30.picoodle.com/img/img30/4/4/16/f_1828ADcitysm_d3ecf7e.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1828ADcitysm_d3ecf7e.jpg&srv=img30)

1828AD: Tech chart, MM is quietly doing what he do best, nicely tucked away from all the world war chaos. Internet does not help much here.

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/4/4/16/f_1828ADtechcm_31f70f8.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1828ADtechcm_31f70f8.jpg&srv=img01)

1828AD: Power Chart, Not bad for Deity Modern Era, however most of my curve represent a highly promoted attack force. KK and Izzy's curve look like a volitile stock market chart thanks to me.

http://img01.picoodle.com/img/img01/4/4/16/f_1828ADpowerm_8de712d.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1828ADpowerm_8de712d.jpg&srv=img01)

1828AD: Winning Conditions. Han is a large Cultural threat, i have ~35 turns to deal with this. And MM is a Space threat also close to that time limit. Good I can reach them with my Open Border with Sul and KK. But I will need a superior attack force i.e. (Modern Armor/Mech Inf/Mobile Arty) And that is on my research path now. Time is ticking...

http://img03.picoodle.com/img/img03/4/4/16/f_1828ADwinnim_af2e125.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/4/16/f_1828ADwinnim_af2e125.jpg&srv=img03)

ABigCivFan

Apr 16, 2008, 05:15 PM

ABigCivFan

Apr 16, 2008, 05:23 PM

BurN

Apr 17, 2008, 09:24 PM

Finished my game. 150AD-1818AD

I had made up my mind not to go after riffles and try to grab as much western land as possible. From there I thought I'd have enough land for a peaceful win.

200AD - Aesthetics to KK for 140gold as he was researching it.

250AD - CS and Aesthetics to Sulei for Feud and mono. Also capture the Most west barb city, I got lucky on that one. I only had one archer and jag there but Kublai took down all but one archer. CS to Han for peace with Sulei and 25gold.

300AD - Finished paper and GS pops -> partial bulb.

350AD - Capture eastern barb city. Paper & col to Sulei for MC+gold+map.

450AD - Capture southern barb city.

500AD - Settle rice+iron+wine city. I also disband some jags, it's not like they will do anything.

520AD - GS pops and education done. Partial bulb lib. Paper & compass to KK for machinery. Phil to Sulei for peace with HC.

540AD - MM, Iz and KK friendly.

560AD - Liberalism. I was thinking to delay it and research nationalism but dno .. with MM in the game you never know so I just researched it.

East side:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7919/civ4screenshot0042nf7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

West side:
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2420/civ4screenshot0044ne1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Capital:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8057/civ4screenshot0045rf6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

GP farm:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4733/civ4screenshot0043dk9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Tech overview after lib:
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/8040/civ4screenshot0048zg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

600AD - Big time bribing.

Nationalism & Edu to Izzy for war with HC+gold.
Nationalism & Edu to Sulei for war with Han+gold.
Nationalism & Edu to KK for war with MM+gold.

A few turns later I get owned by AP. "Peace with Izzy" succeeds, so she only was at war for a few turns. To make thing worse HC dows Sulei after peace with Izzy. :rolleyes:

720AD - KK comes asking to dow MM, I agree since MM won't reach me anyways.

740AD - As said .. HC dows Sulei.

780AD - Nationalism to HC for peace with Sulei+gold.

820AD - Peace with jgoody, I vote yes. Also banking to Sulei for theology+gold.

840AD - AP succeeds, I'm at peace with MM.

860AD - Got a nice event +1 perma happiness in all cities. I also do a begging round but no one gives me anything. Cheap bastards, Izzy and MM are teching my pants off.

900AD - Since I got 2 more GS's in this time .. it's time to get a GM out before I switch to emancipation. GM is for sushi. Trade constitution to KK for economics+405gold. Trade printing press to Sulei for 110gold, I'm basically gifting him techs when I feel he's getting too far behind. He's my buffer.

1020AD - Democracy to KK for chemistry. AP vote for peace with MM fails, haha suck it up pall. But I'm surprised KK didn't own him off the planet yet.

1030AD - KK makes peace with MM, bah. I gift more techs to Sulei.

1070AD - GM pops & I switch to emancipation. Tech overview after teching rep parts. It doesn't look good but it could be worse. MM slowed down his tech rate thanks to KK but now Izzy is pulling ahead. I'd love to see that buddhist shrine. Also I sign DP with Izzy.

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8318/civ4screenshot0084en2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1110AD - Forbidden palace up in one of the ex-barb cities.

1140AD - Hannibal is owning Sulei, not good. Rep parts to Hannibal for peace with Sulei+gold.

1160AD - I gift more crap to Sulei in the hope that he can recover. Rep parts to KK for astro+gold.

1170AD - Sign DP with KK. So now I have 2x DP with the strongest AI's. I don't think Hannibal will be so retarded to down me.

1210AD - I settle a city on the plains hill to grab corn. Izzy really zapping trough techs now.

1370AD - Sulei vassals to Iz, that's nice. At least he won't be wiped out by Hannibal.

1420AD - Assembly line to KK for Biology+gold.

1430AD - GP pops, used him for GA since I'm building the radio wonders. Biology to Izzy for steel+gold.

1450AD - Completed rock n roll.

1470AD - Finished researching medicine, construct Sushi in my GP farm.

1490AD - Medicine to KK for Railroad+gold. Medicine to Izzy for Industrialism. I put 1 turn in both rail and indu so I could do these trades. Also MM went into wfyabta.

1515AD - KK dows MM, KK bribes Hanibal to war with MM too. The seeds of evil have done their job. :mwaha:

1525AD - I thought this was pretty funny. Hannibal's sod running trough my land to MM and I spot Izzy's sod on the way to Hannibal. Where smoke is, is fire. :lol: Especially Izzy's sod is scary, I count 60+ units.

1535AD - Izzy wants me to close deals with Ragnar, a colony of Hannibal.. I agree.

1550AD - Izzy dows Hannibal, someone is going to get owned.

1560AD - Izzy asks me to join, I refuse since my army consists of archers and axes. :rolleyes:

I love diplo screens like this:
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7928/civ4screenshot0178nr8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1580AD - Finally researched computers, I was scared Izzy would beat me to it. Internet in 9 turns.

1600AD - Izzy owning Hannibal's ass. One worry less.

1615AD - Internet done. Also Hannibal capitulated.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4194/civ4screenshot0195ns7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1625AD - Iz went down to pleased because I refused to dow Hannibal. I switch to theocracy to get back to friendly.

1660AD - Apollo Program done. One last look at the capital before I start putting workshops down. Izzy went back to friendly so I renew DP.

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5880/civ4screenshot0205me2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1670AD - Renew DP with KK.

1720AD - UN resolution for free market, I defy for SP.

1735AD - I start GA, to finish my last space tech and building some parts.

Capital with workshops:
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1589/civ4screenshot0218nq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1750AD - HC asks me to stop trading with Izzy .. lmao.

1765AD - HC dows Izzy, I dow HC, Sulei dows HC, Hannibal dows HC, MM dows HC ... LOL what was he thinking? I rushbuy some mech inf, just to be sure.

1795AD - Launched.

1818AD - Victory.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/240/civ4screenshot0236md2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/166/civ4screenshot0234fx0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/7866/civ4screenshot0231tv5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1613/civ4screenshot0232xa8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/913/civ4screenshot0239dh0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/214/civ4screenshot0241ms4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Good game. Izzy was a real monster in this one, both her gold & power graph went trough the roof.

lordnor

Apr 18, 2008, 09:29 AM

Very nice game. I really like the way you played everyone off each other and (almost) never had to lift a finger!

silverbullet

Apr 18, 2008, 10:46 AM

Nice game BurN,
I really like the way your report - detailed and yet short and to the point, and shows all the important parts of diplomacy.

ABigCivFan

Apr 18, 2008, 12:03 PM

BurN

Apr 18, 2008, 07:04 PM

Excellent showcase of diplomatic skills Burn :goodjob:!

Kudos to successful Westward expansion (500AD huh? Sul was really getting owned as he could not spare some settler to settle those nice spots :)

I will finish my game when i find some time, some major warfare ahead..

Thanks, the westward expansion was speed up thanks to KK who had two keshiks trying to grab the cities. It was kind of weird but the archers from the other barb cities started moving to the city where KK killed off some archers, resulting in weakly defended cities. I only had to kill 4 archers total.

I like peaceful wins like this as warfare can get really tedious. Most of my deity games I'm forced to war because the AI would either beat me to space or culture. My science was lower then I wanted though, the land really didn't favor cottaging and had a lot of prod. In science civics (rep/FP) I was only pulling in +-2k breakers, which is imho rather low for a science end game.

As for your game, what is the gameplan? Razing one of Hannibal's culture cities is inevitable, also you will have to raze MM's capital when he launches. For the rest if you can pull that off it seems like you're in a good position for space. :goodjob:

Rusten

Apr 24, 2008, 06:36 PM

3rd set - dedicated to BurN for nagging me to play on in a different thread :D (525 AD -> 1250 AD)

Suleiman makes peace with Hannibal 580 AD, currently nobody's at war. As mentioned earlier I started on the Taj Mahal. The problem however is that Kublai beelined Nationalism as well and even got it before paper and guilds (MT too). Fortunately I had spy points on him, so I knew what was up so the moment he got nationalism I started trading it around. Reason being that Kublai was friendly with MM and vice versa and that tech would spread like fire either way.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2126/md220001kh5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

720 AD Kublai bribes Suleiman with him to war with Izzy, pretty nice. The feeling of watching your future target sending units through your empire is sweet.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4324/md240001kv9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A couple of turns later I nail a sweet deal with Huayna, and being this close to rifling I decided to head for cavalry instead of cuirassiers. I never see them used in BTS for some reason, but they're perfect for this situation/game. On deity every turn you're in a war counts, you'll fall far behind in tech and the sooner you can recover your economy the better. Most of my deity losses comes from being in a war for too long. So, how do I speed up the war? Mounted units of course! I'm not a big fan of riflemen, and especially not on this map. The distance between me and Suleiman is huge and I can't afford spending that many turns walking around. Cavaly and cuirassiers enable swift warfare, which is huge, especially when you're up against Mansa, Huayna and Hannibal. :rolleyes:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6072/md270001gw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A couple of turns later I speed up rifling a little more.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1109/md270002dr0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I adjust to the war civics (yes, vassalage baby! Another forgotten jewel). No mercantilism this time because I want the diplo boost with Mansa and Hannibal.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/5629/md280000mx3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Cavalry can't get drafted, but I can whip them out with my FE and police state helps a great deal. My HE/Moai city will recruit cavalry more or less every turn (the few 2 turns cavalry will be whipped and then lead to overflow for a while).

I decide happiness is more important than health right now:

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/4240/md280001eh1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

920 AD Spawn a GS (saved for future use).

Techs; this is the point where I'll fall a little behind, but that's no biggie, as long as I grab land it's all good.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/887/md300000hv2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1080 We've got our first cavalry out, that's very fast. I also have a lot of cuirassiers that were produced in the meantime, these will get upgraded (80 gold each) very soon (slider at 0% after rifling a little while). As mentioned above, haste is everything on deity, every turn you can save somewhere counts.

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/3638/md340000aj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Our current army. I'm not sure which year this is, but I know it's before 1140 AD, probably sooner, like 1120. 22 Cavalry already, yay! :goodjob:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/801/md380000lz3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1140 AD Spawn another GS, he will lightbulb chemistry together with the former.

1150 AD Time to declare on Suleiman - two cities fall on the first turn and we get a GG after killing one of his stacks.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/4519/md390001uf2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/1614/md410000lh9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1170 AD:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1790/md430000ju2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1200 AD I decide to give chemistry to Kublai for pleased status.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/137/md490001ov8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1210 AD We move further into Ottoman territory.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/2713/md510000ly7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

and further...

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/525/md530000bn0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

and further.....

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7204/md550000lp6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Power graph:

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1271/md560000xg9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I stopped here for now. Warring on deity is really demanding, gotta finish it as soon as possible while not losing your army rushing in too fast. Finding the balance requires a lot of thought and thus I feel tired, will continue later.

BurN

Apr 24, 2008, 10:06 PM

3rd set - dedicated to BurN for nagging me to play on in a different thread :D (525 AD -> 1250 AD)

Entertaining as I expected. :goodjob: Since I played an all peaceful game, I was interested in how war would look like in both your games.

Abcf is still in for some late game warring and you seem to do well in your war right now. You grabbed a big piece of land there. :hatsoff:

Rusten

Apr 25, 2008, 12:27 PM

4th set - 1250 AD -> 1545

I take a look at some of Suleiman's cities and note that Huayna's cultural influence will be a problem. I definitely can't hold both Ankara and Istanbul out of revolt, not enough cavalry/units (about 35 atm). Rivals adore Suleiman as well, so this is an example of a great situation to vassal someone instead of wiping them out.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3848/aa100000ad3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I trade replaceable parts+constitution to Izzy for Sci. method and 420 gold. I want to speed up biology and SP as much as possible.
Suleiman is becoming weak and he's on good terms with several civs, so I'm a bit worried that he'll vassalise to them. So...

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8789/aa120000rs4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Trade steel+470 gold to Huayna for communism. Huayna is on good terms with everyone, so he's a great trading partner with the few techs I have on him. I could've traded with MM too, but he on the other hand is hated by almost everyone.
1280 AD We move further into Ottoman territory.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1919/aa130001lp0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

We also take Edirne the same turn. It turns out to be a really great city. It has an academy and a bunch of matured towns. :goodjob: Extra kudos to Suleiman for using his GS wisely, he gained a lot of good will from this and is more likely to recieve presents in the future. :D

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/4452/aa140000hw9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

After taking Edirne he's ready to capitulate, but I don't want to do it just yet.

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/6049/aa150000ln4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

As you can see below Ankara also has a lot of matured cottages, but when I take the city they will all fall into Huayna's hands. Thus I postpone taking the city 2 turns and pillage them all. This was a really good move, pillaging netted me about 500 gold, that's more time at a high slider towards biology and a significant boost in general.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1170/aa170001mq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1310 AD We take the city and leave him with Istanbul and the two southern ones.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/429/aa180000yv2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I accept his capitulation. That means the war only lasted 16 turns, that's really nice. Good luck taking all of those cities as fast with riflemen with just two losses (could be 3 cavalry, lost count and cba to check the log). The distance from Ankara to our capital and HE city is huge, a rifleman would need 15 turns walking there even with roads but passing through enemy territory makes it even harder. His two cities apart from Istanbul are not under cultural pressure and could've been a nice gain to my empire, but it's simply going to take too long taking them. I need at least 2 turns to heal my cavalry and then another 4 moving there/taking the city. Accepting his capitulation is much better, I can't afford wasting time and fall behind tech-wise. That way he'll provide a nice buffer-zone to Hannibal and I can just request the resources (sugar and pig).

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/3717/aa200000jb3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Adjust civics.

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/5728/aa210000bu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I come across a great deal the following turn.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6292/aa240000pt9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hell yea it's fair! :D

Mansa asks for steel, dream on dude, nobody likes you.
My army it situated in Ankara to avoid revolts. I really needed this many, if I drop one out the city is in danger of revolt. :crazyeye:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4265/aa290000fv8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

My earlier bribe causes more good, Huayna declares on Mansa as well.
Suleiman proves useful; give him sci. method for astronomy.
I accept Kublai’s request to cancel my deals with Mansa.
Suleiman proves useful again (I also accepted his demand for communism earlier); give him chemistry, replaceable parts and some gold for democracy.
1400 AD Finally unlock Oxford's after some crazy whipping.
Hannibal joins in on the war.
Biology to Huayna for Steam power and 170 gold (part-researched).
Democracy and steel to Izzy for physics and 675 gold. This was a deal on the table for a long time, but she was hated by everyone so I didn’t want negative diplo. However, after everyone attacked Mansa it was up for grabs.
Iron to Huayna for 10 GPT, hit singles and hit musicals.
The tech situation is becoming satisfying. I haven’t even started running scientists yet as I want to grow, grow and grow some more first. I also haven’t made a single GA except for Taj Mahal, so I predict at least two more before the end of the game.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7492/aa430000qr3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1500 AD Huayna/anyone finally asks me to declare on Mansa, I agree for diplomacy points.
Kublai has started doing some serious damage to Mansa, taking the confu shrine.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/299/aa470000ih7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1525 AD Start flipping some tiles on the border to Huayna allowing quicker growth for Ankara.
1535 AD The UN has been built by Huayna, and unfortunately I’m just a little short of being the other candidate. However, a smart vote and some luck makes it all good, nobody gets the spot. My vote also brought Kublai to friendly.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/8505/aa490000bn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1545 AD Hannibal takes a major city. I thought about bribing them to peace, but Mansa finally has infantry (Kublai had it for a while), so I think I’ll let them fight it out a little more. He’s not at the point of capitulation yet.

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8012/aa520000at0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Spawn a great artist, goodie. I already have 1 scientist idling, but I’ll get many of those so the artist will be saved for golden age #2.
Now that biology is doing its thing and the whipping is done my GNP is looking quite nice.

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7121/aa550000dc4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Everything seems to be in order and the game is in great shape.

Rusten

Apr 25, 2008, 04:07 PM

Rusten, how can you be in such a great tech lead against those Deity AIs? Please elaborate :)

What do you want to know? I uploaded 2 saves (~500 bc and ~500 AD) they should tell you pretty much everything there is to know with the added post. Lightbulbed philosophy and liberalism, didn't get to bulb education, with a capital like this I deviated from my standard and made an academy. Give in to demands for diplomacy bonuses and adopt pacifism if possible for some extra scientists points.

If you want a super-detailed post with everything I do every turn then it's not going to happen, at least not in an open thread for everyone, it simply takes too much work. If I open up a game/walkthrough on my own I might go into more detail.

Rusten

Apr 26, 2008, 01:59 AM

5th set teaser - 1545 AD -> the end

The game got very tense, so I don't have time or the will to make a big write-up right now, but a couple of teasers I can do. It's funny how 1 lousy turn can make a world of difference. This project below, the internet, didn't get built by me, Huayna beat me to it by 1 turn...........

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4651/aba280000bu1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I've never been this tempted to do a reload before, but oh well, I'll just have to make the best of it. What would've been an incredibly easy space win became much much more. I probably could've won space even without internet backfilling as I was first in GNP, but Huayna really ticked me with that move. There was no way around it, he and everyone else were going to face Monty's wrath.

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/3862/aba520000rv1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Poor Hannibal, he got hit the hardest. :D

The world revolves around Monty.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7749/aba670000cn8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I got a little sick of owning rivals at this point, so even if I was close to domination I just took the diplomacy vote. Every vote is from either me or my vassals, so it's basically domination, no diplomacy involved.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1341/aba700000po0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The screen thingie is blocking a little, but you can fill in the blanks. Will try to put together a more detailed post in a couple of days.

BurN

Apr 26, 2008, 05:16 AM

:goodjob: Sucks to miss internet by one turn, did you consider bribing civic/religion switch or was that no option?

Rusten

Apr 26, 2008, 11:16 AM

He had the Christo Redendor thingie and honestly I didn't expect him to make it so soon, he only got to computers 1 turn before me. He must've made it in a serious hammer city (bureaucracy?) because as you can see mine is a production monster as well. :(

Very frustrated at first, but in the end this was more fun than space.

edit: In hindsight I could've sabotaged his copper as he only had 1 source, but as mentioned above, I didn't expect him to get it up so soon.

sylvanllewelyn

Apr 29, 2008, 11:09 AM

The Chinese saying is not "4 lbs" but "4 ounces", the Chinese ounce. And it's not a ton of force, it's 1000 catties (1000 being figurative) of weight. 1 cattie = 16 Chinese ounces = (about) 4/3 lbs.

Sleepless: just accept that sometimes Deity hands you an unplayable hand, either by being the target of an aggressive AI or starting isolated (wow, deity and isolated, that's teh SUCKS....). You could always try archer-choking, but I'm not sure if they have improved the BTS AI to the point that you won't be able to keep the world in the dark ages anymore.

ABigCivFan

Apr 29, 2008, 11:50 AM

The Chinese saying is not "4 lbs" but "4 ounces", the Chinese ounce. And it's not a ton of force, it's 1000 catties (1000 being figurative) of weight. 1 cattie = 16 Chinese ounces = (about) 4/3 lbs.

Yes you are right about the precise "weight" used in the saying. I just used a descriptive pair of weights in my OP instead of going into the precise measures.

Snaaty

May 01, 2008, 07:41 AM

We recently started a new deity game in the SG sub forum. It can be found here:

Deity of Random (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=273426)

It might turn out to be interesting/different:crazyeye:

Dirk1302

May 01, 2008, 04:02 PM

This thread gives an error,are you sure you typed/copied it right?
btw, the adress the link directs me to is
http://http//forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=273426
Sorry it's quite simple really, should have been
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=273426, there's one http too much in the address and being a bit tired i see it kind of late.

Dirk1302

May 01, 2008, 08:41 PM

Game played until 500 AD, i'm interested in what others would do in this situation.

I finally decided to take this game on, I'd glanced over this thread some 2-3 weeks ago but the only info i sort of remembered was that KK was on my right, since i met him 3000 BC on my right no further problems. It's my second deity game, i've won one from Rolo's isolation start as Darius but that was hardly my achievement as the monty's shaka's + some religious nuts just killed each other on their own continent while i teched peacefully to space on my big island.

This one is quite different, superb start of course, except for KK the other civs are quit far away. The map is already crowded with all the units they build and that helps a bit with the barbs. I get a good fogbusting system up with warriors on hills and with some exceptions they don't botter me much. It also takes some time for them to invent alpha, Mansa's first of course, there's no marble but i decide to take Snaaty's tip researching aesthetics early, it gives access to lit and drama and i'm sure to get lots of money for them.

Around 700 BC alpha is researched and i get my first direct insights in deity tech speed which is something to behold if you've never seen it. I learn pretty fast that if i want to make a deal and i can get it i better do so immediately otherwise someone else will.

It really feels like a roller coaster, not only are they fast but they pay big money (much more than on immortal) for my techs so i'm teching so fast myself that my cities can't get up with all the new developments. I semi block KK, get the deer spot, also the iron/ silver/3 fur spot and the cow with one of the ivories spot in the north KK gets the other ivory.

One of the reasons i' haven't played deity sofar is the random element, you can put alot of effort in the game and then get attacked because there was no way you could get power on a decent level.

With KK on our border there's a fair chance that this 'll happen but if i switch to his religion i'll have huge problems with Izzy who's not really far away and imo will certainly have a go with my power so low. The others don't bother me that much, i don't trust Suleiman but he's far away. Huyna and Mansa are cowards and i' almost always have good relations with Hannibal.

After alpha i get KK and Izzy to pleased soon first by gifting techs, later trading them for gold.

At one moment i have this satisfactory situation, Monty the diplomat:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/Monty-diplo.jpg

275 Ad i was almost certain i'd lose lib, i have to do 4 turns on education which Mansa already has and while i have built the GL i haven't NE yet, also philo and pacificm are missing. I do what i can, trade for philo running scientists at as much food decifit as possible, trading education to compass at a certain moment. Mansa is probably running to economics so i get it 475 AD.

I'm dead last in score but i'm actually pleased at the current situation, i've staked of a huge chunk of land without tanking my economy and at the moment i only see one problem, while there were lots of wars it's relatively quiet now and score leader Izzy has dropped to cautious. She doesn't have any evil plans yet.

As far as i can see i've 2 options now,

-Leave everything as it regularly checking the diplo screen to see if i can set someone on her. There's a fair chance that she'll pick someone she hates anyway, if i set to it borders are thus that i've a fair chance of defending but i'll have to begin building units
now which doesn't really suit me.

-Alternatively i can bribe Suleiman to war on Hannibal or Huyna ( to risky to switch religion before), then switch to izzy's religion. I'll have my hands free for a while then but it can hurt me long term. I think i'd set him on Huyna because Hannibal is far away and he doesn't care so much about religion. I can set Hannibal on Suleiman too atm.

Personably i the feel second option is best, Izzy's not a friendly person and i just don't think i can assume she won't attack me. Come to think of it, even if i do the bribes it's high time to build some maces or my empire may not last. KK has been fighting Mansa for ages but he won't like my switching to Izzy's buddhism and when he finally makes peace with Mansa he might well look left for his second victim. But maybe i can bribe Izzy at pleased ,then switch back to FR. Monty's strong on this level.

What do you think?

Rusten

May 02, 2008, 06:01 AM

@Dirk
I'd lean towards the second alternative as well, and judging by your screenshots it's probably best to bribe Suleiman vs Hannibal. They have different religions so a war would really sour their relations.

One definitely learn to appreciate the spiritual trait in a situation like this - sandwiched between deity AIs :D

BurN

May 02, 2008, 06:59 AM

@Dirk took a look at your save.

First of all improve those resources omfg! I don't understand how you can play like this with so many unimproved tiles. You are missing out A LOT of trades. Get stone and trade it away, trade your 2x iron away, get all the furs online and trade them away, make a workboat rather then a silly theatre to get the fish, get the silver online .. :rolleyes:

Chop forests in that eastern city so it can grow with irrigation, unless you plan to keep those forests for NP. Make more cottages for the capital asap, make mines, etc ..

You need much more improvements, you are really holding back your empire. I think you did a very good job in land grab but you are currently really crippling yourself by bad specialization and bad improving. I think if you expanded a bit slower and had more workers you would be in a better position. Also you need a GP farm up soon to get GP's for corps.

ANYWAYS, the situation looks good and winnable. I would do some trades (trade away all iron since you don't need it anyways, MM and Hannibal have gold for trade. Don't forget you need iron for IW, so cancel a deal later). Bribe Suleiman to war with Hannibal and you're pretty much set for a peaceful win. But I think you really need to spend some time thinking how to specialize what city and get some more workers. The era of the AI's economy booming isn't that far away. I personally would start cottage spamming everything soon but it seems you really like farms so it's up to you.

KK fav civic is Bureaucracy so stay in that for the rest of the game. Han+MM free market so they will be easy to please as well. Which will put you in a good end game diplo pos. Izzy worst enemy is KK so eventually things will start rolling.

Edit: Might be nice to keep an eye on what civics the AI's are running. For example you want to have Izzy not run bureaucracy and KK not run theo. It will prevent them from having civic diplo.

Groetjes en succes~ :lol:

Dirk1302

May 02, 2008, 08:09 AM

BurN

May 02, 2008, 09:45 AM

@Rusten and Burn, thx for suggestions

@Burn
You're quite right that the empire is in an unimproved state, mostly due to the landgrab in the west and GL chopping. I'm working on it now building more workers , there are 10 now for 7 cities which is still a bit low since the empire is big but is was far worse. I'll set some of the border cities to more workers i think.

I love resource trading and getting stone and furs up now are a priority, i recently installed Bhruic's patch and this nerfed resource trading considerably, no one wants my iron now, used to be a cash cow before as the AIs valued it immensely even if they had 2 already.

As for specialization, most of the cities are too small for that at the moment, bigger cities have built alot of workers lately. Worst thing is the capital hasn't got an academy yet (bulbed edu and lib), this has to change asap as it costs me tens of beakers/turn.

All in all i agree that i probably over did the landgrab in the west so i have alot of catching up to do improving the land. This means that cannon war is out now as i won't get the infra up in time so i'll try a peaceful win.

Theater in Bulgar is a mistake,i missed the fact that it would pop borders on religion and isn't a border city, got too caught up in the lib race to notice later,i'll change to workboat immediately and whip it.

As for farms vs cottages, i'm not so big on farms usually favoring cottages, in this case i need the cities to get bigger fast so i'd gather i'd go with farms for the moment also because i'm researching at a reasoanble rate already (but too slow for deity maybe). Since i'll go peaceful from here i run to demo and transform some of the farms to cottages then.

I need to adjust to the deity timeline, on immortal i wouldn't bother too much about all this as there'd be time enough to catchup and my research 500 AD is ok for immortal standards. I probably need some more games on this level to get a feel for the deity timeline, i estimate gap between immortal and deity is about twice as big as between emperor and immortal.

Thx again BurN en.... groetjes.

Ah I see, I tried to install Bhruic's patch a few times already but I just can't get it to work. I could trade away the iron for gold but if you can't that means another reason to get stone+furs asap. (I saw you were working on those furs though)

As said in general it does look pretty good at this point. But I worry a bit about the AI taking off soon. The AI's will probably have a lot of matured cottages, you on the other hand have only 1 cottage city. Once PP and democracy get into play, the AI is probably going to have a significant boost over you for a while.

However the diplo in your game is nice. You got KK and MM in war pretty early, which is nice to prevent MM from tech whoring. Also your Izzy is less strong then in my game so she won't be able run off in techs either. And if you bribe sulei in war with Hannibal, the global tech rate will be a bit lower.

I'm not sure what to think of HC. He seems to be doing well but I don't think he has enough land to really form a treat.

Dirk1302

May 02, 2008, 10:13 AM

@BurN
Ai's taking off, i thought they did so already 700 BC :lol:. So it gets worse.

About Bhruics patch, it's a pity the iron trades don't work anymore, it's more realistic this way though. You really need Bhruics patch if you go to war using spies, without it the spies are evicted on declaration and you'll have to send them back in again, one of the reasons i switched to cannon wars for a while. Bhruic did a fine job.

Funny thing: i suggested in the immortal students thread to someone that he'd trade his resources so he could get the slider 30% higher, i hadn't installed the patch as yet then, fair chance that he couldn't sell the resources either.

I also think i have a fair chance to win this one if i don't get attacked ( so i really need techs to keep on bribing), i have no idea how fast Ai's'll launch however on this level, as a very rough guess i think i can do it myself around 1850 maybe sooner if i can keep up in tech and Ai's keep on trading with me.

ABigCivFan

May 02, 2008, 10:56 AM

@Dirk

I would suggest the following diplomatic strategy judging by your screen shot:

1. befriend Sul, bribe him into war with Han, Han is always dangerous after Liberalism, his tech rate can climb like a rocket. Sul is strong in your game too, so get Sul and HC (same religion) on Han ASAP and let them fight for the rest of the game; Han can probably hold them 2 off with his Charismatic might.

2. Befriend KK, he is the most dangerous foe on the East since you and KK share a large border line, in an unexpected war, you will not be able to hold him off; It is easier to defend against Izzy however given the small area you have to defend. So swith to KK's religion to utilize OR/Theo if you need, use Beauc, it is easy to get KK pleased/Friendly. Then try bribe him into war with Izzy. Izzy is already the leader in your game so need to slow her down by all means.

KK seems a bit slow maybe due to unsuccessful war against MM. But if you need, gift KK military techs so he can do better against Izzy.

It would be a lot easier for a peaceful win when you succeefully manupulated the world into 2 fighting blocks (Sul+HC against Han, KK against MM and Izzy). They will tech slower with tons of units. You can always jump in the fight to tip the balance later if needed, or just gifting techs to do the same.

Dirk1302

May 06, 2008, 08:52 AM

@Thx ABigCivFan, Good advice.

I'm indeed working towards the situation you describe here. I was forced to do things a little different at first though, KK is at war with MM so can't bribe him right now and Izzy is cautious which is a dangerous situation. So i started doing what all of you advised (also my own plan). I set Sulei on Han, switched to Buddhism this got Izzy to pleased. Bribed and switched religions/civics alot already 1160 AD. Tech rate is fast, i guess the Ai's are some 6-8 techs more advanced at this point than they'd be on immortal but i've managed to keep up sofar. I've traded alot though and hit WFYABTA with everyone except MM and KK.KK doesn't have anything worthwhile so it's in my best interest to keep MM alive.

I'll post a more complete update tomorrow.

Dirk1302

May 07, 2008, 03:29 PM

500AD-1160AD

500-AD
set suleiman on Hannibal switch buddhism to deal with the spanish threat

900-AD
Huyna is annoyed with me so i set Izzy on Kublai (can't do it the other way around since KK is still at war with MM) and switch to Huyna's hinduism myself now Izzy's busy.I'm not thrilled to set someone on my neighbour but Huyna is befriended with Suleiman and it's no problem for him to reach my lands through Ottoman borders. There is another reason, MM is the only one who'll trade with me besides the worthless KK and we've had some good deals already despite his being annoyed with me. I don't want him destroyed right now. So i have to deviate somewhat from the path ABigCivFan sketched in his post. Actually i'm toying with the idea of dealing the decisive blow to KK myself when the time's right. For the moment he's still pleased so not much harm done.

900-1100 AD
Between 900 and 1100 AD Han and Sul stop fighting each other. Han is annoyed with me but i'm not worried here, there's no way Sul will ever let him pass through his lands.KK and MM also make peace around this time but some 100 years later MM thinks he's got scores to settle so he turns on KK who's still at war with Spain. He's immediately dogpiled by Han and his colony vassal Toku. I can get Sul to fight Han very cheap and so i do reckoning that the Hannibal Mansa fight will essentially be a phony war while Han vs Sul is very real damaging both. Might still have been a mistake though since sneaky Huyna stays out of trouble this way. Bribing Sul against him was too expensive, i think i'll get a chance to set either Izzy or Sul on him later.

1100 AD-1160AD
Switch to FR now. i'm setting up a GP farm with NE now but it's not ready so it take the small science bonus.

Overview of the empire 1160 AD:

I heeded BurN's comments about the empire being unimproved, actually i had seen this myself and was already in the proccess of building workers but it was good to get this emphasized so i gave it some extra attention.Since my empire is divided in an eastern and western part with a big chunk of wilderness in between without a road i also need 3 settlers to fill in, all this gets some priority above other things and at this moment almost all the tiles are improved and i'm growing cottages under emancipation fast.

I have been researching at 100% selling off techs like optics for the longest time, now the techs themselves are too valuable to sell for some gold so i've fallen back to 500 beakers/turn at 80% without loss. I still make lots of profit from resource deals.

There's scope for research improvement in the near future, i'll need one more uni , then i can build Oxford pretty fast, also most of the new cottages have reached hamlet status now, once they're villages/towns PP and free speech bonuses'll kick in.

I have steel on everyone at the moment so i can build the most advanced unit atm, unfortunately production is not very high due to all the cottages so i'll have to stay peaceful for a while. I may have enough land for space but it'd be very nice if i can get some of KK's cities in a short war, with factories i should be able to get enough production for some decent units production later on.

Western lands
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/Western-lands.jpg

Eastern lands
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/Eastern-lands.jpg

South eastern lands
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/South-east-lands.jpg

World-relations
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/World-at-war.jpg

World-relations-Glance
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/Glance.jpg

Civics
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/Civics.jpg

Resources
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/Resources.jpg

Techs
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s256/dirk1302/Techs.jpg

I'm finally getting a bit more savvy about making screenshots and using photobucket so it doesn't take me forever anymore to put up screenshots, ive one question, i resize them to 800-600 to remove horizontal scrolling, is it correct to do so or should i just leave them as they are?

Further advice/comments are welcome.

Rusten

May 07, 2008, 03:59 PM

@Dirk You seem to be doing well, but I can't understand why you haven't settled a city claiming the remaining flood plains, stone, fish and wheat. It's one of the prime spots on the map! :eek:

Dirk1302

May 07, 2008, 04:15 PM

@Dirk You seem to be doing well, but I can't understand why you haven't settled a city claiming the remaining flood plains, stone, fish and wheat. It's one of the prime spots on the map! :eek:

Thx, you're quite right i somewhat underestimated this spot due to all the desert around. Also because i have this stone and wheat already connected within borders anyway. Almost all the spots on the map are good but this one is probably better than the wine spot that i've already settled and where i have to build a trireme first to kill a barb galley. I planned to settle this spot anyway but i'll make it a priority now.

Edit looking at the map i see another good city spot, if i settle 4 E, 1S of Tlacopan i can share the corn with Tlacopan which can sustain itself on the cottages alone in the future, farm the grasslands and i can work alot of mines and workshops on the plain tiles there. I could also go one more east stealing the iron from the worthless silvercity but losing the ability to share the corn.

Sleepless

May 09, 2008, 04:51 AM

@Dirk1302

Your doing much better than my 2 abject attempts at this one. :) First one Suly declared on me early. Second attempt Kublai came right through my cities and settle the wheat stone site in 1200BC ish so I threw the towel in on that one. I was wondering if he was trying to build the HG and thought ooh stone I'll go and settle there. ;)

I will give it a 3rd go. Its an awesome starting position with room to grow, things not very common on deity in my limited experience. :lol:

Looking forward to the next instalment. :goodjob:

Dirk1302

May 09, 2008, 06:11 AM

@Sleepless

There's nothing you can do when you're attacked so early i think, just restart. Would be great if you'd give it another try. A bit lonely playing here on my own.

KK settling near the stone so early is a bit strange. I know i have to get used to the timeline on deity. Being comfortable on a level means in part knowing when things'll happen. I know they'll happen sooner on deity but not by how much.

ABigCivFan

May 09, 2008, 10:54 AM

Dirk, how about city specialization? Where are your HE city, Moai and IW city?

Looking at your screen, it seems Teo is the best site for HE (same as mine). But I see you cottaged those floods around it. In my HE cities, I do not build cottages but only farms; since I need the extra food to work mines/workshops. It is important to have a HE city set up early, it is usually the player's best chance to counter an unexpected war early at this level.

We have stone and lots of sea tiles, so having a good coastal city with Moai set up ASAP makes a lot of sense. You got steel early, put IW in this Moai city can help you a lot with troops and wonders. (I put the Moai/IW in my stone/Iron/Fish city).

Why did you go Steel before Astronomy? Did you plan on a cannon/Rifle based war against KK? Also you have plenty of cottages, so Democracy will be a priority. If I were in your situiation, I would probably going peaceful for a while researching techs that will quickly maximize research/production (Astro, Democracy for Enmanci, Assembly line, Railroad, Bio and etc). This will allow us to stay in pace with HC on tech, he looks like a top space challenger for you.

But in the mean time, if KK is losing the war, let Izzy weaken him enough and you dogpile him and take some easy cities would be great to boost your power. These cities are near your capital hence low maint.

Dirk1302

May 09, 2008, 12:22 PM

-Moai, Haven't really decided on a location yet, i could build it fast in the city i plan to settle east of Tlacopan which is to be a production city. I have to hurry with this city if it is to pull any weight for the rest of the game. Where would you build Moai in my game?

-HE, not unlocked, this hurts actually. I had a good fogbusting network setup and wasn't troubled too much by barbs. Maybe i should've gone out of my way to look for them but there was alot todo in the early game.

-IW, i have just researched steel, probably goes to Teo, this city will reach full production potential once bio is researched. I'm not too happy with the floodplain towns
near this cities, farms would have been better now. On the other hand these cottages being worked constantly helped with early research and expansion.

-Demo, Had it for some time, was a priority, cottages are happily growing under emancipation.

-Astro, useful for observatories but otherwise not a real priority on this map, hope to get it from MM soon for steel. Steel will help with defence at least so i don't have to keep on bribing and giving in to demands. Also gives Teothuhican soemthing todo. And yes i'm toying with the idea of an attack on KK but that is some time off. I need to settle 2 new cities first, city to be settled east of tlacopan can grow fast with corn once it's grown to a decent size it'll have good production, IW will be built by then and assembly line teched. Around that time i'll see if i can do some harm possibly upgrading to artillery first.

Huyna is indeed a contender for space since he manages to stay out of all these wars. I hope to set Izzy or maybe Sul on him later.

Dirk1302

May 12, 2008, 08:28 AM

1100AD-1868AD

Built IW in Teo, settle the stone fish city as Rusten suggested also Tzintzuntzen between Tlacopan and Texcoco,Farm/mine/workshop everything there and build Moai, it's indeed a production monster. Izzy captures a KK city on my borders giving me room for another city on mostly plains river squares. I have bio around 1270 AD so it should contribute.

Since i don't know how fast the AIs will tech from now on i keep the empire flexible concentrating on farms/mines/workshops in most new cities and also some of the old, keeping open the option to mobilize quickly if i need to.

Around 1710 when internet is 3 turns away, fiber optics 2 turns it becomes clear that i'll probably win going peaceful, i'm plastics,computers and most of fibers up on everyone. Now my focus on production hurts somewhat, a lot of the production cities are producing wealth which isn't optimal. I run representation but i can't run caste due to unhappiness. I found mining and sushi and spam it to everyone, beginning with the weakest civs.

Izzy gives me a scare researching, plastics rather quickly then stealing computers,suddenly she's only fiber optics behind while she's got satellites on me. She gets distracted rather easily though and attacks Han subsequently.

In the end MM is the biggest contender but i win comfortably reaching Alpha 1868 AD.

There's been a lot of wars, some were started by bribes but there was some honest hatred about so they often declared on each other spontaneously. At one time KK made peace with MM, i checked but he had enough on his hands already. Made peace with MM to turn on his worst enemy Izzy again.

Biggest matchups through the game

KK-MM
mostly early midgame, resulting a draw

Izzy-KK
midgame also resulting in a draw with Izzy taking some border cities

MM-Huyna
midgame resulting in MM vassalizing Huyna in a fight that Huyna started,
Huyna got dogpiled immediately.

Sul-Han
essentially whole game long really resulting in a draw

Izzy-Han
endgame resulting in Izzy vassalizing Han, In the endgame she had enormous stacks that ran through my borders to get to Han.

Conclusion

I won comfortably so i played well i think, looking back i could have improved somwewhat i think.

BurN was probably right that i overdid the expansion somewhat in the early game, between 500 AD and 1000 AD i got the empire back on line quickly but it will have cost me some early research i think. Some of the cities were build close to Sul's borders and got culturally pressed later on. A bit hard to say really, less cities would have hurt me later on.

I never made a real decision between staying peaceful or joining a war. I'm not yet familiar with this level so i didn't know for sure which way to go. On immortal i'd have attacked KK somewhere down the line for sure.In this game i built some units but never enough to attack him sucessfully as can be seen from the final powergraph.

I played from 1100 AD to the end in one go which made me a bit sloppy at times.My farm cities should have been checked more often to make them work specialists instead of water tiles.In the endgame, transforming to workshops would have shaved some 3 turns off the launch date,i don't remember if i timed apollo well either. I researched superconductors last, hoping to get it from internet, this meant that some of the parts were built without the 50% bonus, also that i lost some research.All in all i think i could have saved 10 turns if i had really managed all these things more carefully.

I was in WFYABTA with most AIs pretty soon, i don't remember trading for petty techs but i'll take extra care in the future to only trade for real techs.

Finally i'll have to manage espionage better, i tend not build jails, Security bureaus and intelligence agencies reckoning that i'm behind in espionage anyway, I really got stolen blind in the endgame, fortunately not always by the same AI.

In my next deity game i'll have to do some cannon rushing i think to get a feel for the military possibilites, i'll have to have a smaller empire in this case focusing on globe theater and steel as i do in a lot of my immortal games.

BurN also played a peaceful game and actually managed to reach Alpha 1818 AD. I'm actually in awe of that result, he must have gotten everything right. Not building any military and totally focusing on science paid off. Really focused playing :goodjob:.

This level is really fun to play,especially until 1100 AD i've thought much longer about different situations than i would have on immortal where play can be fairly routine at times. Thx for hosting ABigCivFan, thx for advice BurN, ABigCivFan and Rusten :goodjob:.

Rusten

May 12, 2008, 07:44 PM

Congrats on your win, nicely done! :D

mystyfly

Jul 03, 2008, 10:33 AM

I've seen this thread when it was started and I really wanted to play this game but I haven't found time so far. Now I have and I'm around 1AD. If anyone comments and bothers to read, I'll make a little writeup. I usually play on immortal so comments are welcome.

CivSetä

Jul 05, 2008, 09:30 PM

^^ Go on, there can never be too many deity-games around! :)

mystyfly

Jul 06, 2008, 07:33 AM

Well it just turned out that Hannibal, on the other side of the world, who was in WHEOOH forever was after me. He DOWd me ~100AD and instantly bribed suleiman as well who just got up to pleased with me. 2 turns later, KK also joined in the "fun", who was pleased as well. I think getting dogpiled by 3 AIs rather early on deity is a reason to abandon this game.

I must say, the map and everything was a nice setup and the game was very interesting so far. I settled 1S to cut down unhealthiness from FPs and to get irrigated corn in the BFC. I had my empire protected by warriors instad of archers as I got the "Tower shields" event (all melee get cover for free) and I built the mids after settling west on the coast near the stone. This city got moai a bit later. During the mids I whipped a settler who founded 1S of copper, where the HE was built.

I beelined aest after the worker techs and got there first. I got a bit distracted with partresearching currency and calendar (I then traded for them) and backfilling poly for lit so Honey got literature some 5-10 turns before me (I don't remember exactly). I stopped running scientists and hoped for a GE which I got, and who rushed GL ~400BC.

I also founded a city near ivory and one to get wheat/cows/fish for a gpfarm. I captured 2 barb cities to the west; one near the crabs/FPs/wine and one near corn and horses.

Hannibal, HC and suli were buddhist, izzy lone hindu (but scoreleader) and KK + MM were cunfucian. Mansa once asked me to convert so I had a short period of being confucian. Hannibal also asked me to stop trading with mansa just one turn before I could trade aesth around :mad: but I still accepted. Also I got the "faux pas" event with mansa but he still was cautious towards me. He also was quite a wonderhog with marble and stone.

One last note goes to my military: I would surely have built an army of jags and upgraded them to rifles and declared on someone: These guys were fantastic: from slaying barbs I had a few with C1 - woody1 - cover - [3 promotions of choice, woody2+3+medic1 or CR3 for example :eek:]. These surely would've ruled the battlefields :hammer:

kazapp

Jul 06, 2008, 09:23 AM

This thread sure is aptly named.

*awestruck*

Dirk1302

Jul 06, 2008, 10:21 AM

@Mystyfly

Bad luck. One of the reasons that i don't play deity that often, you can play very well and invest time in the game but you're always running the risk of getting declared on early. Sure this can happen on immortal too but 100 AD it's possible to survive on that level. It's usually fatal on deity.

mystyfly

Jul 06, 2008, 02:13 PM

As I see it I could've held off Hannibal alone but when stacks attack left right and center, there's very little you can do. Also I had no way of buttering hannibal up and improving relations with him to avoid the declaration. 1st - he's been in WHEOOH like forever while always at least cautious and 2nd I couln't gift him techs very often as he was teching incredibly fast.

harusame

Jul 07, 2008, 02:54 PM

ok this game gave me a huge headache
i played it twice, the first time i lost, because i tech to aesthetic>music first, which was a big mistake, resulting me lag behind in teching
and i lost music GA to HAN as well

so i tried it once again, this time CoL>CS as priority tech, with such a godly capital
so, screw music, i can tech/trade it later and rush Sistine chapel with a GE
Bureacracy is also great way to keep KK from warring me

early game:
Mining>BW (i got lucky from tribal village)
IW (while waiting for worker)
worker>chop settler>rush jaguar (whip+chop), because barbarians drove me crazy early game
then worker+jaguar till i have 4 jaguars and 4 workers

expand to stone city>chop+whip rush jaguar>pyramid

settler at capital again and expand to top GP farm
expand again to west, grab crab, wine and cow

later after currency, expand 2 more junk cities and just cottages them

mid game:
writing, alphabet, math, and CoL>CS
trade Currency, MC and Construction

then after Bureacracy, tech fast to music
rush SC, and continue tech to liberalism
trade education+philosophy with guild/machinery
(i lost liberalism race, but whatever)
trade PP, banking and nationalism with education/liberalism/philosophy
after having banking/nationalism/liberalism/PP, i stopped teching for missionary/temple spamming

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9921/civ4screenshot0003ww7.jpg
i build all 4 monasteries/temples in 3 legendary cities
a nice new iron source near capital (but it was useless at this late), i used it to trade with banana :D

capital is a commerce city with academy
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8161/civ4screenshot0006mw4.jpg

stone city has pyramid and hanging garden, hybrid prduction and commerce
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/7554/civ4screenshot0007yf7.jpg
this city was very hard to manage, since i needed hammers and i need to work on cottages as well.......

GA farm city
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/857/civ4screenshot0005tn1.jpg

junk cities
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1971/civ4screenshot0004ds9.jpg

relationship
http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/7209/civ4screenshot0013ca4.jpg
KK is annoyed after i switched to free speech :crazyeye:
then i gave him money

late game:

1625 AD: HC finished Apollo program
1630 AD: Mansa finishied Apollo program
1665 AD: Sul+Han declare war on Mansa
1675 AD: a useless GE was borned at stone city, i used him for golden age
1710-1715 AD: Mansa launched multiple tactical nuke
1740 AD: Mansa made peace with Han+Sul, and DoW on Isabella
1760 AD : Mansa made peace with Isabella :crazyeye:

Global warming everywhere caused my cities starve

i was so scared he DoW to me, becasue he refused to talk to me (because i stopped trading with him, so convert to confucianism (and bribe isabella with money)
i was using pacifism/hereditary rule/free speech/mercantilism/CS
hinduism or confucianism as state religion (switching)

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/5484/civ4screenshot0016bk4.jpg
Capital reached legendary culture
4 cathedrals

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2760/civ4screenshot0017aj3.jpg
stone city reach legendary culture
4 cathedrals, pyramid and HG

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9083/civ4screenshot0018rv7.jpg
GA farm reach legendary culture
Hermitage, NE, SC

crazy game :crazyeye:

harusame

Jul 07, 2008, 03:11 PM

@Mystyfly: Main problem is KK, Han and Isa

i used Bureacracy and give technology to please KK
Religion to please Isa
and bribe Han+trading resources, and hope he likes me (maybe later with free market, but in my case, i dont tech to economy)
later i even gave him free iron

Mansa, Sul and HC are peaceful enough
(i used Hereditary Rule alot also)

my major problem was, i was teching so slow, despite that godly capital
inca has such a crappy UB, and more likey only 1 useful trait for peaceful purpose

come on.....Sacrificial altar.....god -_-
i get like no money to do anything

mystyfly

Jul 07, 2008, 04:21 PM

Congratulations, harusame :goodjob:

I usually don't consider cultural when there's no marble around.

I'm a bit puzzled to see rather bad relations with those other leaders though...

harusame

Jul 07, 2008, 09:33 PM

lol, this map is so fun with that starting location :D, so i decided to to play again

same strategy, but with different result
early IW>rush Jaguar (chop+whip)
beeline CS
and trade the rest

expand
1st stone city
2nd GA farm
3rd cow+wine+crab city west

then 2 more junk cities after currency
this time i was a bit late, because KK declared war to me
lots of keshik and chariot, so i whip my cities for spearmen :(
i didnt have time to build HG this time, but nvm

so after CS> immediately Bureacracy
Aesthetics needed now only 3 turns to research :D

so from the warring KK, he became friendly :lol:
+5 you have chosen your civics wisely :D

then liberalism (i lost again, i cant win it)
lightbulbed PP, trade liberalism+PP for nationalism and economy
then stop teching, switch to US>temple spamming
i gave all my tech for free to KK (all other AI were beyond me at this point)

this time i had bad luck
i got only 2 religions (but AI spread them over to all my cities, so i didnt need missionaries)

Relationship before i switched to Free Speech
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/4056/civ4screenshot0023lc4.jpg

After finishing temple spamming (not only temple but also banks, market, grocers in capital+stone city)
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6463/civ4screenshot0027qq7.jpg
capital
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/3765/civ4screenshot0029ih7.jpg

stone city
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1797/civ4screenshot0030yr6.jpg

GA farm
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3976/civ4screenshot0031vp3.jpg

Victory condition
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/3803/civ4screenshot0028mi8.jpg

2 religions, with only 400-500 culture/turn :(
it will need 50-60 turns to win (depends on GA)

i stopped playing there
because it was boring, my pc slow down a lot there ( i usually play on small map to reduce the lag)
as well, there is nothing more to do beside some diplomacy
bribing KK and Han, and stick with Isa religion
and hope HC or Mansa wont launch SS :crazyeye:

@Mystyfly:
Why marble? stone>marble
pyramid = no need to tech to democracy
constitution and democracy are very expensive techs
i mean, the only good marble wonder is SC, and a GE from pyramid will rush it
pyramid is in my opinion more important than SC
HG is a nice to have wonder also in deity, but not really necessary