Finally beat Immortal on a larger map size than tiny by domination. Small map, continents, normal speed (marathon / epic is cheating... and so is reloading over and over for good start spot), tt brokering off, agg AI, barbs on, didnt take one vassal. I typically beat emperor consistently but immortal can be a beast.

Using all updated versions of Beyond the Sword.

Just thought I would brag on myself. Feel free to post your latest and greatest :lol:

You think marathon and epic are cheating yet you turn off tech brokering and turn on aggressive AI?

So you don't "cheat" one way but "cheat" a different way?


Congratulations, i'm still playing on Emperor. But your settings pretty much guarantee the AIs will tech considerably slower than they would have in a normal game.

too bad man, you beat Immortal on Normal speed. I doubt you can beat it on Quick :)

i think agg AI on higher levels is defintely a hamper on the human, they create huge SOD. How is no tech brokering on cheating? It keeps everyone from double trading techs.

Aggressive AI is widely considered to make the game easier for the player on the technology front because the AIs don't tech well when they're always gearing up for war. Combine this with no tech brokering, which will always slow down the rate of technological advancement, and you have AIs that are teching at least 1 full difficulty level less than they would with standard settings.

Plus the aggressive AI can be taken advantage of more on the slower settings. Marathon and aggressive AI can make for some truly monstrous sods.

i think agg AI on higher levels is defintely a hamper on the human, they create huge SOD. How is no tech brokering on cheating? It keeps everyone from double trading techs.

So..you turned on aggressive AI's but then denied them the chance where they might actually shine (i.e. epic/marathon games that favor war).

And you disabled tech brokering to slow down the AI's teching.

Yeh there was some "cheating" going on, but it was in favor of you.

That said, grats on the immortal difficulty level, I doubt I could do it myself, but you certainly tipped the scales in your favor with your settings.

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php

No tech brokering is not allowed for the HOF competition. I don't want to go into the debates of why, but I am sure with some effort you can beat Immortal consistently as well, even with tech brokering off.

Maraton and Epic are not cheating btw... they have their exists and entrances; and the one man in his time plays many parts.

I want you to make note of something here KC. Instead of some back-patting and congrats, you are getting pounded by trolls. Do you know why?
(marathon / epic is cheating... and so is reloading over and over for good start spot)
You went and diminished your own accomplishment by making that outrageous claim.

These things are not cheating. Dont use such strong words when you, yourself, used custom settings that are known to make the game "less difficult". Now, no one cares about your fine accomplishment, all they see is a negative.

For the record, congrats on your victory.

BTW, did you play it with the HoF MOD and post it, so we can be sure you didnt "cheat" by reloading turns or battles?

See how that works?

Aggressive AI is widely considered to make the game easier for the player on the technology front because the AIs don't tech well when they're always gearing up for war. Combine this with no tech brokering, which will always slow down the rate of technological advancement, and you have AIs that are teching at least 1 full difficulty level less than they would with standard settings.


Most people saying this plays on Monarch and below. (where the statement is true to a degree) Up the difficulty and you will get AI's with good tech pace and sick SOD's. (You'll have to work for your domination even with Marathon... :p)

I would like to see one of the Deity players try Aggressive AI on.. (doesn't matter if they do epic/normal/marathon) Would be interesting to see if the AI is more easy to beat then as so many believe.. :)
(I don't think we have one high level game with Aggressive AI in this forum at all..? I think Sisiutil had one Emperor game with it on.. that's it?)

Anyways, well done :) Next time go Standard map :p

Most people saying this plays on Monarch and below. (where the statement is true to a degree) Up the difficulty and you will get AI's with good tech pace and sick SOD's. (You'll have to work for your domination even with Marathon... :p)

I would like to see one of the Deity players try Aggressive AI on.. (doesn't matter if they do epic/normal/marathon) Would be interesting to see if the AI is more easy to beat then as so many believe.. :)
(I don't think we have one high level game with Aggressive AI in this forum at all..? I think Sisiutil had one Emperor game with it on.. that's it?)

Anyways, well done :) Next time go Standard map :p

But you can't deny that tech brokering off will slow the tech rate down.

well let me congratulate you and scorn those people who haven't. it isn't easy to win at the nest level and he's done so. often it helps to load the decks in your favour... when i first beat immortal, i played with no barbs because i couldn't handle the early appearance. anyway, i figured out what to do to win more at immortal and then turned on the barbs. if the tech pace is too fast, then no tech brokering is a way to slow it down whilst keeping the other aspects of the difficulty level intact. eventually, he might want to turn it off and when he does he will have the knowledge and ability to be able to keep up with the ferocious tech pace.

i bet plenty of the people who criticized you would have played with any easier leader for example when they first tackled a new level. nobody runs headfirst into immortal with raging barbs and tokugawa and aggressive AI on.

Most people saying this plays on Monarch and below. (where the statement is true to a degree) Up the difficulty and you will get AI's with good tech pace and sick SOD's. (You'll have to work for your domination even with Marathon... :p)

I would like to see one of the Deity players try Aggressive AI on.. (doesn't matter if they do epic/normal/marathon) Would be interesting to see if the AI is more easy to beat then as so many believe.. :)
(I don't think we have one high level game with Aggressive AI in this forum at all..? I think Sisiutil had one Emperor game with it on.. that's it?)

Anyways, well done :) Next time go Standard map :p

There was an open immortal game with aggressive AI on some months ago.

Here -> http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=256866

Don't think there has been one with deity difficulty yet.

Agree with tycoonist.

My first Immortal game I chose Hannibal (one of tycoonist's favs I believe ;) ) and allowed myself to chose between three rolled starts.

Congratulations on your win :goodjob:

silverbullet is hosting a fantastic thread (Immortal University II) for any immortal players, come join in the fun.

well let me congratulate you and scorn those people who haven't. it isn't easy to win at the nest level and he's done so. often it helps to load the decks in your favour... when i first beat immortal, i played with no barbs because i couldn't handle the early appearance. anyway, i figured out what to do to win more at immortal and then turned on the barbs. if the tech pace is too fast, then no tech brokering is a way to slow it down whilst keeping the other aspects of the difficulty level intact. eventually, he might want to turn it off and when he does he will have the knowledge and ability to be able to keep up with the ferocious tech pace.

i bet plenty of the people who criticized you would have played with any easier leader for example when they first tackled a new level. nobody runs headfirst into immortal with raging barbs and tokugawa and aggressive AI on.

Pretty much everyone in the thread has congratulated him while being critical of him at the same time. This is largely due to the fact that he stated "playing on epic/marathon is cheating" (even though I haven't ever heard such a thing) and yet he obviously stacked the deck in his favor.

But you can't deny that tech brokering off will slow the tech rate down.

I won't deny or confirm that as the effect is still unproven. (I believe you meant that the AI techs slower compared to the human..?) Both human and AI's get slower tech pace from this. (My hunch is that this hinders the human more than the AI because of ruthless exploitation of relations.. but that depends a lot on your diplomacy skill. It could go both ways... that's why it's unproven)

No tech brokering is an advantage for the human player. You can beeline/lightbulb key techs and trade them to AIs knowing that they won't get spread. The AIs on the other hand follow the same tech paths and stagnate.

No tech brokering is an advantage for the human player. You can beeline/lightbulb key techs and trade them to AIs knowing that they won't get spread. The AIs on the other hand follow the same tech paths and stagnate.

I don't think that has too much effect really. You would do something similar with tech brokering on as well. (you would trade it to your friends, and keep it away from your enemies, you could just abuse the "freedom" a bit more and keep it longer for maybe a better price with TB off)

On the other hand it will hinder your options as a good human would trade around techs that the AI's won't trade between each other and gain profit from that. Now... a lot of players doesn't exploit this properly and that's why the AI seem to tech so much slower compared to you with it off. (This won't hinder you at all because you didn't use it well enough even with it on, but the AI will feel it's effect)

The unknown factor is how much this affects trading between AI's compared to the potential for trade abuse the human can do with good diplomacy. That's why this is still an open question, but probably the majority of players will feel a decrease in AI tech pace compared to themselves with this on. That doesn't mean it's true for all games :)

It's not the achievement that is lacking. It's the tone that is lacking. And IMO small map is easier, so it is still 'cheating' by the same logic.

It is bad taste to play up your own achievements while deriding others', especially on grounds that are suspect.

I don't think that has too much effect really. You would do something similar with tech brokering on as well. (you would trade it to your friends, and keep it away from your enemies, you could just abuse the "freedom" a bit more and keep it longer for maybe a better price with TB off)

On the other hand it will hinder your options as a good human would trade around techs that the AI's won't trade between each other and gain profit from that. Now... a lot of players doesn't exploit this properly and that's why the AI seem to tech so much slower compared to you with it off. (This won't hinder you at all because you didn't use it well enough even with it on, but the AI will feel it's effect)

The unknown factor is how much this affects trading between AI's compared to the potential for trade abuse the human can do with good diplomacy. That's why this is still an open question, but probably the majority of players will feel a decrease in AI tech pace compared to themselves with this on. That doesn't mean it's true for all games :)

I agree with Rusten here. The higher up in difficulty you go, the more unfair the trade deals has to be for the AI to accept them. This means that if you research a tech and want to trade it for two or three techs of similar cost, you have to put several turns into each of them. Every turn you spend on this is another turn one of the AI can obtain the tech from someone else and since the AI are typically best friends to each other compared to their basic attitude towards you, that often means everyone suddenly has the tech.
With no tech brokering, you can research a little of one tech, trade for it, research the next and so on without fear of the AI spreading it around to your other trade partners.

I won't deny or confirm that as the effect is still unproven. (I believe you meant that the AI techs slower compared to the human..?) Both human and AI's get slower tech pace from this. (My hunch is that this hinders the human more than the AI because of ruthless exploitation of relations.. but that depends a lot on your diplomacy skill. It could go both ways... that's why it's unproven)

I think it's an advantage to the human player. The human player can purposefully target techs that might not be the best tech for him, but will allow him to trade for multiple techs, especially if you use espionage to see what the AI is researching. For example I never tech Democracy on my own anymore because I know the AI will stupidly beeline for it, despite there being no reason to immediately switch to emancipation. So I'll head to rifles instead, which the human player can almost always get first. Despite it's obvious defensive advantages, the AI will often ignore it, especially if it has military science. It's not even rare for the AI to get assembly line before rifles. If you don't mind trading a military tech to friendly civs, then you can get a lot of stuff for it, while the AI can't turn around and trade it to your enemies.

Also once an AI starts researching a tech they'll often (if not always) refuse to trade for it, even if it means they'd get access to that tech 20 turns sooner than self researching and start work on a new tech.

Pretty much everyone in the thread has congratulated him while being critical of him at the same time. This is largely due to the fact that he stated "playing on epic/marathon is cheating" (even though I haven't ever heard such a thing) and yet he obviously stacked the deck in his favor.

i think that everyone agrees epic/marathon is easier. his tone in stating the cheating part isn't good but you will see his point that he was trying to make. no tech brokering as i pointed out can just help you get used to a new level if you find the tech pace to be a problem. as for aggressive AI, i've had games where this leads to me being attacked in 1500BC when i still only have warriors. this does not make it easy on a military side but also doesn't on a teching side. because on immortal AI gets free supports for like half a billion troops, it doesn't slow him down enormously like it does on prince/monarch.

Epic/marathon allows earlier finish dates for military wins. But culture wins are easiest on quick speeds, and normal and quick also favor space race wins. It's not easier. just different.

lol you guys take a simple post so personally, its just a game.

thanks for the info on tech brokering, i always considered it harder because you cant trade for a tech you just traded over and over again to get WTYABTA (or however the acronym is, we think you are becoming too advanced?) although i can see how it would hamper the AI as well

ill probably go turn off AGG AI cause everyone here seems to believe its harder that way, no probs with it, will make my SOD much easier killing early on

and maybe "cheating" is an incorrect word, i still believe it is easier on any level playing slower due to the simple fact your armies remain non-obsolete for so much more time, i.e. you can axe rush for a longer, and the higher levels you go the more necessary (although not required) to kill early on

oh and i also play small level map because standard takes about a million years to ever finish and i like as little as possible "point and click this unit here times a million cities" issues