For Rise of Mankind 2.20
Rise of Mankind + RevolutionDCM + BUG Full v1.0 (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9990)

Thanks to Zappara a Full release combining RoM and the Add-On is available now for download. No more the need for the confusing "delete python folder" step of installation :) . This release is considered v1.0 for RoMRevDCM. New updates will be released as patches for the full release.

Current Patch Attached to Second Post

Features:

Revolution includes: Barbarian Civ, Revolution, Ai Autoplay, Tech Diffusion, and Dynamic Civ Names. It also incorporates some parts of BUG mod most importantly the Civ4lert, and Raw Commerce in city screen. For more information look here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171127

DCM includes: enhanced bombardment for siege units, Air Missions, Stack Attack, Opportunity Fire, Battle Effects, and Archery units Barrage. For more information look here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=257210

Influence Driven War combat results affect ownership of plots, open borders allow faster research of techs discovered by your friends, and more. Check details here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=188007

The DLL supports 34 civs.

Notes:

- This should be considered a Beta version. I hadn't enough time to test it throughly. Some components of DCM has reportedly caused CTDs and crashes. If you encounter any try to disable Stack Attack, then Opportunity Fire components. So far these are the two that caused CTDs occasionally for me.


Credits:

- Zappara -> He made Rise of Mankind (enough said).
- Dale -> Don't actually need to say why do I.
- JDog -> Revolution an exceptional master piece.
- moctezuma -> IDW an excellent component for Civ4.
- The BUG mod team (some of their wonderful work was integrated into Revolution and I was so glad to introduce it to RoM).
- Glider1 -> I used his merged RevolutionDCM found here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=262937). Needless to say this saved me quite a lot of time and pain.

Installation:

1 - Make a back-up copy of your Rise of Mankind current folder. (Optional but Highly Recommended).
2 - Go to BeyondTheSword\mods\Rise of Mankind\Assets and delete the Python folder.
3 - Extract the downloaded file into Beyond the sword\mods folder and allow files to be overwritten.

In case you want to have both regular RoM and RoM+RevDCM side by side you need to do the following:
(Thanks for Commander Bello for pointing this out and for trying the process)

1- Make a copy of Rise of Mankind folder and name it RoMRevDCM (or a name of your own choice).
2- In the new folder go into assets and remove the python folder.
3- Extract the archive into some temporal location.
4- Extracted archive wil create a folder named Rise of Mankind. Copy everything inside this folder to your new RoM folder.
5- Go to your new folder\assets\python. There you find a file named CvModName.py Open this file in Notepad (or better Notepad++).
6- Line #2 reads
modName = "Rise of Mankind"
Change the name to whatever you named your folder.

7- You will also need to rename Rise of Mankind.ini file to the same name of the folder (for BUG version) as now the ini includes all BUG options.

Downloads

Link (RevolutionDCM only): (Not supported after v1.1) http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9087

Link (RevolutionDCM + BUG): http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9984

Update Patch 1.2(10/08/2008) (Includes Update Patch 1.1)
1 - Updates to RevolutionDCM to 0.94. (Revolution 1.63 - DCM 1.7)
2 - Minor bugs fixes.

ExtraCivPack 1.1 Compatibility Patch
1 - Merges the Audio Define files in common between both the ExtraCiv Pack Add-On and RevDCM.
2 - Added is Rise of Mankind.ini (So the patch will work in case the ExtraCiv Pack was installed on top of RoM+RevDCM as the ExtraCiv Pack has this file).
3 - To install extract the archive into Beyond the Sword\mods\ folder and allow files to be overwritten.
Note: In case you use the RevDCM only installation (one without bug) You don't need the Rise of Mankind.ini. You will have to extract the file in some temporal location, remove Rise of Mankind.ini, then move the folder to the mods folder.

Update Patch 1.1
1 - Revolution updated to 1.62 (see change log in Revolution sub-forum)
2 - Fixed Inquisition interface not showing. (fix by Zappara)
3 - Add hot fix for flanking ability by Zappara

Maps

1 - Rhyes Earth for Max 32 civs. Starts with 4 ancient civs Egypt, Sumer, India, and China. What happens next is there for you to discover!!

Map made by Rhyes and modified for Revolution by JDog. I sprinkled RoM resources around the map so it now works for Rise of Mankind + RevoultionDCM Add-On.

I down loaded and tried to play but I "got no satisfaction" or at least no user interface bits, neither main screen nor city screen. Advance start was even stranger, a black screen with three strange boxes headed "player mode", "map mode" and "? mode". Nothing in the boxes.

I had been playing ROM 1.02 before and I deleted the cache just in case still no joy.

Back-ups are wonderful.

Thanks for trying my Add-On. I am sorry that you had this problem. Now if you followed the installation instruction carefully the problem would be that you either have you Civ4 installed in some path other than the default or you are using a windows version other than the English one. In these cases the error comes from one of Revolution python files and I am making a quick patch to include the fix. It should be up in less than an hour.

Once again I am sorry for your frustration and I hope you will try the patch when I upload it.

Good job Kalimakhus once again :) I'll have to download this and try it out soon ;)

Just uploaded RoM v1.03 so will have to check also if there's any conflicts now with files between this addon and v1.03.. if there's not any of the same files I've changed in patch, then there shouldn't be any problems running this addon :)

Thanks Zappara :) RoM continues to be my most favorite for BTS and I love incorporating things that makes me enjoy it even more.

I have incorporated your latest patch into the Add-On after resolving any conflicts. So anyone who would like to try the Add-On will also get the patch. For those who already applied the Add-On please redownload to get the new fixes in patch 1.0.3.

The new version should also fix the no-interface problem experienced by some. If anyone has encountered this problem please report if it is fixed now.

I just downloaded your addon&Patch(1.03) and tried it out on the 4 civ earth map but I got the same result Dancing Hoskuld. No user interface, so I guess the problem is still there.:confused:

@Matt0088

First: did you follow installation instructions exactly. In particular have you removed the python folder from Rise of Mankind\assets\ before extracting the patch rar file?

If you did so and still have no interface then there must be something wrong.

Would you please turn on Python errors pop-up and tell me what messages you get when you start the mod?

To do this go to MyDocuments\My Games\Beyond the Sword. Open CivilizationIV.ini file you find there in notepad and search for the word Python (use the find command in the edit menu). It will take you to some lines of text looking like this:

; Set to 1 for no python exception popups
HidePythonExceptions = 0

As you can see in my case the value after the equal sign is 0 which allow python exceptions to be displayed. In your case it will be 1 so change it to 0, save the file and go load the mod once again.

I am sorry for the trouble but it is for sure something specific to your civ4 installation as it is working quite well for me.

I did what you said, but no pop ups poped up. I'll try redoing everything and see if this helps. Sorry to cause the trouble.

It works fine this morning even without your new patch.

:blush:Oops:blush: I broke one of the cardinal rules of programming "Don't do an upgrade after bedtime while running a fever!"

I missed a step in the install ie I forgot to delete the python directory.

OMG!!!! You did it Kalimikus!!!! Thanks Thanks thanks. I'll try it first thing when i get home tonight!!!!

(btw if you don't remember i sent you a private message a couple of weeks ago asking you to do exactly this addon)

Ur my hero. thanks again.

also don't think i don't love you too Zappura... I havn't played anything but RoM for the last 4 months.

I did what you said, but no pop ups poped up. I'll try redoing everything and see if this helps. Sorry to cause the trouble.

The value should be 0 not 1 for the pop ups to show. And please try removing Python folder then reinstall the Add-On.

It works fine this morning even without your new patch.

:blush:Oops:blush: I broke one of the cardinal rules of programming "Don't do an upgrade after bedtime while running a fever!"

I missed a step in the install ie I forgot to delete the python directory.

I am glad it worked for you. Hopefully you will enjoy it. Come back with comments :)

One other thing. I'm not entirely sure how to play this with the Rhyes map. help please?

OMG!!!! You did it Kalimikus!!!! Thanks Thanks thanks. I'll try it first thing when i get home tonight!!!!

(btw if you don't remember i sent you a private message a couple of weeks ago asking you to do exactly this addon)

Ur my hero. thanks again.

also don't think i don't love you too Zappura... I havn't played anything but RoM for the last 4 months.

I do remember your PM, and yes it was one of the reason I made this Add-On. Thanks for your kind words and I hope you will enjoy it. Make sure to try the Earth map as well.

BTW. I never felt RoM is lacking in fact I felt my games with Revoution or DCM would be much more fun if played within the wonderful framework of RoM. All in all the three pieces are so excellent so the sum should be at least good :)

One other thing. I'm not entirely sure how to play this with the Rhyes map. help please?

To play the map place it in Beyond the Sord\PuplicMaps folder or create a folder under Rise of Mankind and name it PrivateMaps and place it inside it. When you start the mod select single player -> Play Scenario. Select the map from the list then proceed.

I completely forgot to delete the python folder. Sorry for all the trouble and thanks for making my favorite mod even better.:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:

Good choice making Delete the python folder bold. You might want to do the same to the download page.
Again, thanks for the addon.

I absolutly agree Kalimakhus. I tried to play Revolutions knowing that it was an aspect that i had always wanted in my game. but... i just couldn't play the whole game once i had tasted the greatness of Zap's RoM mod. there just wasn't enough substance in the "vanilla" as i call it version of the game ( Playing the game without RoM). this is a dream come true thanks and keep up the work guys.

I'll try to keep in comunication regarding how it functions. But for now "on with the show" !!!

I've just updated the map fixing some silly error in placing resources. Anyone who already download it please get it again. I am so sorry for the inconvenience.

I just had a really strange problem. I won my first battle against another civ, I was in anarchy changing to monarchy.

No keys worked, I could not select any units or cities but I could click on any button except the end turn button. I left it for 15 mins before saving.

Since I could save and reload I did and the problem went away.

Minor problems:
1) The manhatten project world wonder is showing up from the start but since it requires uranium I can't build it.
2) Petra says it gives 2 priests but appears to only give one, ie only one shows up in the city screen. This occurs with RoM 1.02 also.

Hey, have you updated this with the last revolutions?
I just downloaded your addon&Patch(1.03) and tried it out on the 4 civ earth map but I got the same result Dancing Hoskuld. No user interface, so I guess the problem is still there.
This is the Revolutions 1.4 problem. Merge with earlier or 1.42 version. 1.4+ has some nasty bugs though.

Hey, have you updated this with the last revolutions?

This is the Revolutions 1.4 problem. Merge with earlier or 1.42 version. 1.4+ has some nasty bugs though.

I already integrated the vpath.py file from Revolution 1.42 to solve this problem in particular. I haven't merged all the new 1.42 because as you said the latest releases seem to have more problems. Anyway Jdog is making big changes so errors are expected to creep in for a while before being squashed.

BTW. The absence of interface here was mostly due to wrong installation process.

I just had a really strange problem. I won my first battle against another civ, I was in anarchy changing to monarchy.

No keys worked, I could not select any units or cities but I could click on any button except the end turn button. I left it for 15 mins before saving.

Since I could save and reload I did and the problem went away.

Minor problems:
1) The manhatten project world wonder is showing up from the start but since it requires uranium I can't build it.
2) Petra says it gives 2 priests but appears to only give one, ie only one shows up in the city screen. This occurs with RoM 1.02 also.

The freeze you encountered is unfortunately a known random issue with DCM usually caused by the Stack Attack component. If you feel so annoyed with it you can turn Stack Attack feature off from GlobalDefinesAlt.xml.

The manhatten is now a national wonder and not a world project. It shows up from the beginning as it has no pre-required tech. I reported this glitch on the DCM thread. I just want to go through a game up to modern times to decide on a suitable tech for it in RoM. I hope you guys help suggesting a suitable one.

I haven't notice this issue with Petra. You better report it on the RoM bug thread. I haven't changed anything about buildings other than adding the new tags from DCM for air missions.

Thanks a lot for your report and I hope you are enjoying the game.

2) Petra says it gives 2 priests but appears to only give one, ie only one shows up in the city screen. This occurs with RoM 1.02 also.I guess you didn't hover your mouse over that Priest? If you had done it, you would have noticed numbers: Priest (2) hammer +2, gold +2, which means that there's 2 free priests as it should be, each priest gives +1 hammer +1 gold. You can change in the Rise of Mankind config.ini how those city specialists are displayed. For example if you want to see both Priests, you would have to set following setting:

Display Unique Super Specialists Only = false

Version 2.0 will have many more settings in the config file. :)

Version 2.0 will have many more settings in the config file. :)

When can WE expect V 2 then? a week, a month, a year?:rolleyes:

Quick question: do i need a specific version of winrar? i just downloaded the trial version and can't seem to get the revolution DMC mod or the map to unzip. :confused:

Quick question: do i need a specific version of winrar? i just downloaded the trial version and can't seem to get the revolution DMC mod or the map to unzip. :confused:

At least... I THINK thats the problem anyway. when i load the mod it shows the original BTS screen but says "revolution DCM addon for RoM v1.0.3" in the upper right corner.

one other thing. In the installation instructions it says to delete the beyond the sword\mods\rise of mankind\assets\python folder But then it says to extract into BTS\mods folder ... i'm no modder but, is this correct?

If you see "revolution DCM for RoM v1.0.3" when loading the mod then there is something wrong! When you extract files into Beyond the Sword\mods folder it should overwrite files inside Rise of Mankind folder and not to create a separate one.

To correct this go to mods folder there you have another folder named "revolution DCM for RoM v1.0.3" inside this folder there is another named Rise of Mankind. Cut this folder and paste into the mods folder. You should get a message asking you if you want to overwrite files answer yes and proceed. You should also remove "revolution DCM for RoM v1.0.3" folder for it will show up in the list of mods. When you launch BTS you should load Rise of Mankind and this is what should show up in the upper right corner of the screen.

This is certainly a different experience. On my first try, I have, so far, failed miserably.

A barbarian city popped up near my borders, so I produced a few archers to take it out. Right when I was ready it turned Malinese, and the garrison doubled in size. So I had to build two Elephant Riders to take it.

I got a late start due to some bad decisions and low growth at my starting cities. After a while, my second city started grumbling about revolt (it was fairly close to one of my neighbors, who had grown a good deal faster than me), and after some time other cities started to chime in. I did what I could to appease them, but to no avail. At the moment (AD 535), most of my cities are apporaching revolt and both my large neighbors have declared war on me. I think it's time to pack it in and try again.

As I said, a different experience and a challenge as well.

Hi RobO

I hope you're enjoying the challenge :)

The first rule of thumb with Revolution is never let your cities grow beyond their happiness cap. Second don't let your empire grow too large too early. Keep enough garrison in each city especially those that show signs of rebellion. Spread your state religion to all cities or otherwise adopt the one most of them already have. Don't adopt slavery unless you know what you're doing and then don't adopt it for long.

Consult the Revolution Status screen accessible by clicking the button with fest in the upper right corner beneath the advisers buttons. It will give you valuable information about what is making your people contemplate revolting.

Thanks, Kalimakhus.

Don't adopt slavery unless you know what you're doing and then don't adopt it for long.
Sounds to me like Slavery needs an adjustment for this mod combination.

Besides, the use of slavery was very common BC - probably the normal state of affairs.

Um, just about the map, the starting age was 4000BC, but in the mod i think it's supposed to be 6000BC, i was in the year 2140 with crossbows in first place o.o I fixed it on mine and it seems fine :D

On another note, is the civ placement for barbarian civs random, because the French City State was in Germany and the Portugese City State was in Japan o.o

Yes, there are some glitches with the map that I would like to fix for a coming update. If you are continuing with your game I'd love to have your feedback concerning the resources and how balanced the map seems as a whole.

Yes, there are some glitches with the map that I would like to fix for a coming update. If you are continuing with your game I'd love to have your feedback concerning the resources and how balanced the map seems as a whole.

Well, I changed the starting date to 6000BC, but if you're okay with that, I'd love to give you feedback :)

Yea sure I am okay with that.

Kalimakhus,

first, thanks for this great addition! :goodjob:

Then, I found out something...

If one does not follow you installation instructions (like me :p) and does copy your stuff into a new folder structure, a saved game may become "unloadable".

E.g.: I created a new folder structure "RoMRevDCM" in which RoM1.03 was installed. Then I deleted the Python subfolder structure and copied your things into "RoMRevDCM". Everything worked fine and I played a some games, saved them and ....
... today they didn't load anymore. :cry:

The answer (and solution :p) seems to be in this file:
CvModName.py

I had to maintain it as follows:
# CvModName.py
# CB test: modName = "Rise of Mankind"
modName = "RoMRevDCM"

The reason is stated in CvPath.py:* activeModName: the name of the currently active mod or None if no mod has
been loaded.

NOTE: activeModName does not currently work in a completely automated
fashion. There does not appear to be a way to determine the active mod
programmatically from Python code. A mod that wishes to export its name
to this module must create a Python module called CvModName that contains
a string variable named modName set to the name of the mod. A sample
CvModName is shown below.

# CvModName.py

Maybe you want to add this information to the first posting, as I imagine that others might run into the same problem.

(All of this based on Vista)

First, thanks for playing the Add-On.

Second, it didn't come to my mind that some would like to install the Add-On separately, though when I think of it no it seems quite reasonable. Your fix is correct indeed and I will add optional installation instructions for anyone who would like to run both versions of RoM side by side.

I have problems playing the Rhye map, it does nothing the game is just played as a standart madp, wasn't it suppose to spawn new civs and barbs ?

@gram123

How far have you played. It usually takes some time for barbs to start showing-up and for their cities to mature into spawning new civs. In amy case I've tried the map with Revolution only before and it sure was filled by the middle ages. There is nothing different with the version I posted here except for a few resources thrown here and there.

How do I turn off the battlefield animation (the smoke and fire stuff)? The smoke lingers for ages (literally), obscuring several tiles.

I found this using the RevDCM addon to RoM, when building the Masjd al-Haram with a Great Prophet.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=175571&stc=1&d=1209322623
The +1 culture from Hindi buildings looks wrong. I'm not sure what the building actually does, or if this description is read from the actual building values or from a different description. My state religion i Hindu, but I have founded several others, incl. Islam.

This is not from RoM 2.0 beta, but the problem could well exist there.

@RobO

To turn off battle effects open the file assets\xml\globaldefinesalt.xml in Notepad. You will find the following near the top of the file:

<Define>
<DefineName>DCM_BATTLE_EFFECTS</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>1</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

Change it to:

<Define>
<DefineName>DCM_BATTLE_EFFECTS</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>0</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

You can do the same to turn off any other DCM component.

About the Islamic shrine, I haven't changed anything about this so it works the same as in RoM1.0.3. The bonus is given to your state religion buildings.

Thanks, Kalimakhus, I'll try that.

On the Islamic shrine, it's a bit odd that it gives a state religion bonus. It would make more sense to apply that bonus to Islamic buildings.

@RobO

Thanks for reporting it, those effects will be removed as it's not working as intended. :(

GRAM123,

I have seen the same with the new rev mod,they settle only on islands and continents with no humans or other nations on it

when do rom 2 combined with rev/dale available.
In holland we have the holiday season now with queens day,heavens day and liberation day.
Kalimakhus can i plan a combined ROM 2 game this holiday ?

@cha dawn

I think Zappara will wrap up the beta testing phase soon and release the final RoM 2.0. Once it is out I will work on the merge. Hopefully this will be soon enough for you.

Actually just uploading final 2.0... so it will be released today.. in about 30mins or so ;)

@Kalimakhus

Could you consider adding Influence Driven War (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=188007) to your addon? And if possible vertical scrolling civic screen (part of World of Civilization mod), don't know if source for this is available? With these SDK changes I'd have more or less all the additional functions I'd need in further RoM development. There's other SDK changes that would be nice to have but those would be on top of my list.

I am downloading the final RoM v2 as I write this. I'll be working on an update or re-merge for the Add-On as the situation dictates.

IDW is indeed a wonderful piece of code and I intend to merge it. If it doesn't make it to first version for RoM2.0 it will sure be in any next update.

I am not aware of the vertical scrolling civic screen component. I haven't looked into WoC as I am waiting for their v1 which seems to be suspended until the next official patch is released.

Cool, can't wait for the addon :D

The vertical scrolling civic screen has not been released as single component but I've tested WoC and it's there working. Found thread about scrolling civic screen here (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=263921). Seems the SDK sources are available, would just have to go through lot of files to find the right code blocks. The lack of working scrollable civic screen prevented me from editing civics more. WoC has some other interesting features as well, like font files that support hundreds of religions/corporations/resources.

Thank You!:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:
for adding IDW!

Once you add that to RoM,
Rise of Mankind will be the best mod in Civ4.

@Zappara

Thanks man! I hope I will be able to work on it today. Otherwise I will work on it through the weekend.

I know WoC has got a lot of nice components. You may think of basing a coming release of RoM on it. You know it is not a mod in itself but a framework for mods to work in a modular manner. BTW it would be nice to get rid of the hassle of tinkering with the bloody fonts files every time you need to add something to them.

@Matt0088

Thanks for your enthusiasm. I hope there will be time to have IDW in the first version I make for RoM2.0. I need also to update Revolution to 1.42. Zappara has made several additions to Python folder, so there is a little bit more work to be done this time.

I didn't really get the combat sequence of this MOD. There was a contradictory entry between events log and combat log, and worst of all, an AI spearman simply disappeared after a combat. The spearman has defeated my horsearcher in events log, but killed by my horsearcher in combat log.

Hello Kalimakhus,

I posted those requests on the RoM threads, and i'm posting here too, because Zappara said he doesn't know much about SDK and programming (i don't even know what it is...). I played RoM 1.0 before your mod was uploaded, so i don't know it, but i'm anxious for the 2.0 version. Please add IDW and what you can and want about my suggestions.

- I think military production should be much more faster, and connected with the food available. More soldiers mean more food necessary to maintain the army at road.

- The units’ movement should be far quicker. Like I said, I’m playing at gigantic map and epic speed. My travel to the new world through the ocean lasted more than 50 years. If I have to move my army south to north of my empire, it takes 10 years. I suppose that effect would be mitigated if I play in marathon speed, but even so I think it would be unrealistic. The difficulty of the game should rest in the discovery of technologies and creation of units. Once the player has achieved these goals, the moving of the units shouldn’t be an obstacle.

- The Warlords expansion has Great General, the Beyond the Sword expansion has Great Spy, and the Rise of Mankind expansion (yes, for me it’s an expansion, not just a mod) has Great… My idea here is Great Revolutionary, a Great Person who would cause the civics to change more dramatically, or more easily, or temporarily. In the latter option, for example, a civilization at Medieval Era could be beneficiated by the possibility of Free Speech for 30 or 50 turns.

- Certain units should have a limit of turns necessary to build them. A simple building, like a butchery, if it’s necessary 180 hammers (I don’t know if it’s right), in a island new city, takes 180 turns to build. A limit of turns should be available, like 20 or 30 turns.

- Religion evolution: Islam and Protestantism were a consequence of Christianism, which was a dissidence of Judaism. Can we add this reality to Civ 4?

- Resources should be finite, especially oil, iron, gold, et cetera.

- Natural resources like corn, potatoes, banana, etc. should be transferable, since the natural conditions are met.

- New resources: Beans, tomato, chicken, (and somehow their eggs, maybe as an effect of it), turkey, fruits in general, porcelain, beer (or its grain, I don’t know the English word, in Portuguese is “cevada”), silicon (for computers), diamonds.

- New technologies: telegraph, telephone, mobile telephones, GPS, Nintendo Wii (just kidding).

- Tech Leak (I saw that in other thread, I loved the concept). I don't know how much alike this is alike to Tech Diffusion, and neither what's better.

Forum’s guys, stress these ideas out.

Hugs,

Konrad

I forgot to ask: how much time do you think until your 2.0 version will be ready? Hope it's soon...

@yuizaki

This is quite weird! I will try to catch something like this then I will report it to Dale's Combat mod thread.

@konradcabral

Many of your suggestions are nice. However, the scope of my Add-On is integrating some of the components already available into RoM. I have very limited time to use in modding related projects so I can't afford working on a large project.

About the next version of the add-on, I hope I can get it out on this week-end.

Everybody

The updated Add-On for Rise of Mankind 2.0 is linked in the first post. I had to rework the Add-On from scratch. I had to keep it simple for now by only updating it to work with RoM2.0 which proved to be a difficult process in its own. I haven't got enough time to test it beyond loading and playing a number of turns so I depend on you guys to report any bugs you may run into.

Once all relative bugs are fixed I will move on to adding Influence Driven War component as I promised earlier. Next I intend to update Revolution to the latest version. Hopefully a new stable one will be available by then.

I know that this plan wouldn't seem as fast as some would like it to be but after quite a painful experience with mysterious CTDs, I am all confident that gradual steps are the only way to do it. One bad thing about merging deferent components is that you have to merge everything a component has before getting a testable whole. Locating bugs later can be a colossal pin in the behind.

Thanks a lot for your support and special thanks to Zappara for making RoM and for his encouragement.

Don't know if its addressed in this version, but one thing I noticed in the prior version was that new Civs spawed from barbarians may get granted techs that are out of sequence with RoM's tech tree. For example in a game I played w/ the last version, a Civ spawned from barbarians had Bronzeworking but not Metal Casting. I even traded Metal Casting and a minor early tech to get Bronzeworking from them.

@Kalimakhus

Good job :goodjob: No need to rush addon, take your time with it :) I know how hard it can be to track down those mysterious bugs when you add one full component - I ran to numerous CTDs on early RoM test versions when I was adding some of those new python features.. usually problem was one single letter in wrong place, fun to find it from hundreds of lines of code. So I can imagine making SDK addon like yours is even more difficult. :crazyeye:

@Kalimakhus or zappa

Will you be adding missionaries for those religions which don't have missionaries in RoM v2? If not won't Revolution make these religions the bane of every civ? Since you having a different religion increases the chances of a city revolting and there is no way to spread these religions.

Not a fan of the revolution mods (though I like a one) but do like the DCM stuff .. how do I do I disable the mod's I don't want

@Lomion

For now you need to open the file Revolution.ini in notepad. Scroll through the file and you will find options for disabling each part of the mod like in the following quote:

[BarbarianCiv]

Enable = True

Just change that to

[BarbarianCiv]

Enable = False

There are similar options for Revolution, AIAutoPlay, ChangePlayer, TechDiffusion, and DynamicCivNames. You can disable any or all of them as you like.

When I update this to include Revolution 1.42 these options will be available through the custom game screen which may be more convenient.

Options for DCM parts are in Rise Of Mankind\assets\xml\GlobalDefinesAlt.xml

Open the file in Notepad as well and you will find options to turn on\off any particular component of the DCM.

AH!!!

Just what I was looking for!

I too have a hard time playing Revolutions but like DCM.

JosEPh :)

Also for some reason when I install this addon I can build the manhattan project on T1 .. not really as you need uranium but the option is there.

@Lomion

One of Dale's changes was changing the Manhattan project into a national wonder. Now everybody can build it but it no longer allows Nuclear Weapons to all players. Currently it has no pre-required tech this is why it appear in your build list since T1. Of course it is long before you have Uranium and I actually think Dale left it this way intentionally.

In all cases I like to have feed back on this point. Do you people like changing the Manhattan project into NW, and if so what Techs you think it should require?

Fission obviously. (Though it would be odd to build a nuclear plant before the project so check on that.)

The problem I am having right now in my current game is from Revolutions. First I had to double the revoltuion bar (edit the ini and doubled several turn time indicators as well as the total "bar units" wherever possible, (such as from from 1000 to 2000 for the base revolution indicator) This helps me manage it a lot better with the longer game speed and build times.

I am playing Deity/Raging/Snail/Gigantic Map. As I mentioned before the civs spawned from Barbs have techs that are too strong and often start out w/ Bronze Work & Horseback Riding before their pre-reqs. Also when the city states form they just have way way too many units in them.

Revolution needs a lot more work to be balanced with RoM.
DCM seems fine so far, Ive not taken it far past classical though, I always turn the Battle Effects off though. The AI does not seem to know how to use the Archer bombardment offensively in an effective manner. You can now take cities with a nice stack of archers + a few city attackers, even when they have walls, via a few turns of archer bombardment.

@0100010: Agree with Fission and turning off battle effects also. As for the archer thing, well that was a problem in ROM 1.0 also .. you could always take a city that way, not new ROM2.0 and not sure its a fixable item for either zappara or Kalimakhus

@Kalimakhus: Maybe not a bug but when Barbarian cities flip into real empires via the barbarian city mod, you are immediately at war with them (makes sense) but can't do diplomacy with them (Doesn't make sense). Once they start settling down they will also stop warring.

That's a part of the revolution mod, they're minor civs and can't do diplomacy.

I have an idea about the manhattan project not sure how to do it though.

I like that it's a NW first of all. But i thought maybe this would be fun. How about a national unit that is a bomber but attacks like a tac nuke. Thus simulating the atomic bomber. Just a thought.

its fine that manhattan project is NW, just rename it to "first nuclear test" or something like that.. ;)

and atomic bomber could be first a-bomb unit. it could be intercepted as normal planes, but when not, it would trigger nuclear strike on target.

@Kalimakhus

are u going to add terraforming, like this one?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=179752

@0100010

My focus at this point is to merge the target components into RoM without bugs. Once this is out of my way I will start looking into making these components work better with RoM. Your comments are well appreciated and will come handy when I put myself to the task so please keep on reporting your findings and you suggestions.

@Lomion

As Oatse said minor civs are in war with all other civs. This is actually a BTS feature though you don't see minor civs in regular BTS games. Minor civs are present for use in scenarios and mods. Revolution uses them to represent the rise of barbarian nations. It is quite natural that in their beginnings they won't abandon their ways as barbarians for some time. It is an exciting part of Revolution as dealing with these minot nations is quite different from dealing with barbs.

@iyyillius & @Dewion

There is an atomic bomb unit added with DCM. I haven't tried it myself as I never use nuclear weapons.

@Dewion

Maybe I will some day look into adding this component or another terraforming one. For now I have some other targets and less time to work on them. It should be several weeks in future then.

@Kalimakhus
There is a new version of RevolutionDCM out if you want to have more work (fun?) on your plate integrating it into RoM ;)

I've got some questions for you:
- Should I integrate Influence Driven War into RevolutionDCM by default to save you a little bit or work?
- Would it work with DCM and Revolutions in terms of game play?
- Is it stable?

Cheers.

that Influence Driven War seems rather interesting, totally changes the gameplay.. :P

@glider

I am aware of the new version since you upload it and of course I already downloaded it. I was planning to integrate it on this weekend.

IDW is a very interesting component. It is one of these modifications that I think define the way Civ should work. To answer your questions:
- I sure will be quite grateful if IDW is a part of RevolutionDCM this will save me some time and pain.
- There is no contradiction (gameplay wise) between IDW and either Revolution or DCM. As I see it, it actually complement them.
- IDW on its own is quite stable. I haven't come across any reported bugs. I tried it integrated in History in the Making and it never caused troubles.

Let me know of your decision and thanks a lot in all cases.

@Kalimakhus
Ok, I'll give it a go ASAP and I appreciate your thoughts. Should be up towards the middle of the weekend. It will be a lot of fun to see how it plays out with Revolutions and the AI's ability to hold it's society together. It's a small compact strategy enhancing mod that suits the RevolutionDCM concept.
Speak soon.
Cheers.

@glider
I will be waiting for your merged version then. Hope you enjoy having IDW in the mix. :goodjob:

RevolutionDCM with IDW has been merged, tested and uploaded. It appears to be very stable but the court is out on what effect it will have on game balance in a Revolution and DCM context.
Cheers all you RoM players.

@glider1

Cool! Can't wait to test it soon :D

RevolutionDCM with IDW has been merged, tested and uploaded. It appears to be very stable but the court is out on what effect it will have on game balance in a Revolution and DCM context.
Cheers all you RoM players.

Hello glider1,

where do i find the "RevDCMIDW" file? Is it compatible with RoM 2.0 with the extraciv pack? I started a RoM RevDCM with extraciv, if i install your merge i can continue that save?

Thanks,

Konrad

Uploaded? Where?

Hello glider1,

where do i find the "RevDCMIDW" file? Is it compatible with RoM 2.0 with the extraciv pack? I started a RoM RevDCM with extraciv, if i install your merge i can continue that save?

Thanks,

KonradThat's just the basic version of RevolutionDCM+IDW, it still needs to be converted to RoM2.0 just like Kalimakhus did it first time when he made his addon. So yeah, we need new addon version before it works with RoM 2.0.

Playtested RevDCMIDW last night for while - lost control of my empire in revolution.. :eek::lol:

@glider1

Thanks a lot for your hard work. I've downloaded RevolutionDCM-0.6 and gonna give it a test drive on its own before attempting the merge. I will report back any findings in the mod's thread.

@Everybody

As Zappara mentioned Glider's version works as a separate mod for BTS. You can download it here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8322 . The discussion thread is here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=262937

I will work on preparing the new version for RoM ASAP.

The new RevolutionDCM Add-On for Rise of Mankind is available for download now.

Changes:
- Updated to include RevolutionDCM 0.6 by Glider (Check more details about RevolutionDCM here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=262937 )

Many thanks to Glider for his excellent job it sure made my task much easier.

Most noteworthy:
- Influence Driven War is now added. (Your feedback about how well it is integrated with both Revolution and DCM is highly appreciated).
- Revolution updated to version 1.42 (Besides other enhancements, You can now turn on\off components from the custom game screen).

This is still a beta release as I am aware that further work will be needed to better integrate these components into RoM. Your feed back will help a lot in this process. Hope everybody enjoys the Add-On.

PS.
- If you already installed the Extra Civs pack you will need to apply the patch that Zappara has kindly created after installing the Add-On. Link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6771455&postcount=5

Edit: While I never payed attention to such things it seems a little odd that with 573 downloads so far (throughout different versions), nobody thought of rating the download!! Rating is actually the easiest way to voice your opinion about the Add-On without the need for posting a whole message.

Thanks Kalimakhus!!:goodjob::goodjob:

Unforunately, my computer has a virus in it and I can't play Civilization.
(I using my old computer right now)

But as soon as the virus taken care of,
I'll give you some feedback.

Been thinking about future patches for RoM 2. I've been making little adjustments and bug fixes since I released RoM 2.0 so there will be patch 2.01 at some point. This patch won't be compatible with this RevolutionDCM addon ie. addon needs patch too. But after this first patch cycle, I'll start working on the next one, hopefully slightly bigger patch and if no any major issues have been found from Kalimakhus addon at that point, I'll merge it permanently to RoM 2 - that would be 2.1 or 2.2 patch (depending on how things progress during next couple months).

Have quite a few pink icons??

EDIT: One thing i did notice, the unit Atomic is not on the add-on?

@Strategyonly

Thanks a lot for catching the missing Atomic issue. I attached a fixed Civ4UnitInfos.xml. It will be included in the coming patch as well. I will just wait for more issues to surface up.

The pink icons are RoM issue and I am sure Zappara has taken a note of your post.

@Zappara

If there won't be any other SDK components that you would like to add to RoM, integrating this Add-On should work nicely. Currently the DLL is the same that comes with RevolutionDCM by Glider, so if any of the components gets updated it will all be Python and XML merging. In fact IDW is not likely to be updated, DCM shouldn't be updated for quite a while as Dale has a lot on his plate currently. Only Revolution is expected to get updated frequently.

On the other hand I still think that some little SDK components out there would fit nicely into RoM. There are a couple by Shqyp namely Vicinity Resources, and Population Limit for buildings and units. There is also one component that allows setting building upgrade chains right in the XML. This last one wasn't updated to work with BTS AFAIK, but it won't be that difficult to update it.

On the other hand I still think that some little SDK components out there would fit nicely into RoM. There are a couple by Shqyp namely Vicinity Resources, and Population Limit for buildings and units. There is also one component that allows setting building upgrade chains right in the XML. This last one wasn't updated to work with BTS AFAIK, but it won't be that difficult to update it.There's actually lots of those mod component that add new XML tags to almost everything, buildings, techs, civics, units, promotions... would be nice to have most of them in RoM so that more different kinds of things could be made. I can live without those new xml tags since I can't myself add any of them, but if you or someone else feels up to the task you'll make me a one happy man :D One new upcoming mod really did catch my attention and it's Dom Pedro II's Conqueror's Delight (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=274317) which seems to add LOTS of good stuff as xml tags. See Conqueror's Delight website (http://www.modciv4.com/) for more detailed info. I was shocked when I saw the added stuff in that mod.

I've been asked also if I could convert RoM to World of Civilization's format ie. make it modular - I've actually attempted merge RoM with WoC few times but abandoned as I was just getting CTDs all the time and v2.0 progress got delayed by it - so I'm thinking about the conversion to WoC but it might be just too much modding work for me to do as I want to continue soon with my next modding project which has been on hold over half year now (it's just on design stage).

@Zappara

I had a look at Dom Pedro II's new work and it sure seems quite big. It seems that his work or at least some of it will be integrated in WoC. I believe that if this Civ4 Modding community is going to thrive for several years to come, WoC will take a central role at some point. My belief however is that it might be easier to build a mod on WoC as a base rather than to port a mod to WoC. In the case of a huge mod like RoM this can be too much work. The advantages on the other hand are numerous. You will have a great number of extra XML tags to play with. You will be able to use a large number of resources, religions, and corporations without worrying about the #$%^^&%^ GameFont files. All external components that your fans ask you to integrate into the mod will be there with a convenient way to turn on\off any of them. you won't worry about merging, or updating them. In short this project once in a stable usable state will be the modders heaven, and I expect that it will allow more modpacks and modcomps to be created.

It however depends on what you feel you like to do next. If you think it is time for you to move on to a new project, then by all means go for it. We are all here for fun in the first place so if you are gonna have more fun working on your next project you should get started on it. In the end of the day there will be something for us all to enjoy and I am quite sure that whatever you have in mind will be yet another great mod like RoM.

I couldn't agree more about what you said about WoC. I've been thinking the same way for months now - WoC is very good platform to make mod collection by yourself just by adding modules to it. Converting RoM to it just depends on how far we want to develop this mod - I can see myself playing it for years to come so I guess there will be more features added too during that time and having it in WoC format would be beneficial ;)

What comes to my other "little" project - it still would take months for me to design most features for it (harder to design than RoM) and it would take probably year to have the actual mod working - it's fantasy mod and base for this mod would be RoM (techtree cut down and expanded with fantasy elements). Been thinking that it would be easier to make if I had RoM in WoC format. But that's all I'm going to say about that mod at this point. ;)

Anyway, for now I'm concentrating on patching RoM 2.0 and having fun playing. :)

I found out that the Civ4UnitInfos.xml I posted earlier to add the Atomic unit from DCM actually has a problem. For some reason the combat type set for the unit originally is COMBAT_AIR which doesn't make sense as the unit works as ICBMs. The problem however is that RoM doesn't have such thing as COMBAT_AIR because it adds several types of combat to replace it. Anyway, I am so sorry for this mistake. Attached to this message is a fixed xml file. It should go into Rise of Mankind\assets\xml\units\ folder.

Once again this fix along with other minor issues fixes will be included in a next patch. I intend to hold on releasing this patch till Zappara releases his patch as well.

Hi Kalimakhus.

First a great thank you for this great MOD and Add-on with 48 new civs.
I just have some questions though because I tried to make my own scenario from a premade world map.
I used the civ change option my holding down ctrl-shift-p to change some of the existing civs to the new ones from the add-on.
That went pretty fine so I saved the game as a scenario and reloaded it from the main menu. But when I have to choose a civ, then they all have the same names as before I changed them. The only thing that have changed is the leaderhead and unique units and buildings? The civs and the leaders still have the original names, before the change and the units in the game are also named with the old civ?
Example: I changed the french to etruscans. The "new" etruscans are still pronounced "french" and the flag is the same (I know you are working on the flags though). Is there a way i can change the old civ and leader names to the new ones?

Aragorn7

@Aragorn7

You can edit that map file in Notepad (it's plain text file). When you edited those Civs it probably didn't change all info for them in the map file so you'll have to manually edit them in Notepad.

@Aragorn7

First you seem to mix between me and Zappara. Zappara is the creator of Rise of Mankind mod as well as the Extra 48 Civs Add-On. My Add-On incorporates Glider's RevolutionDCM into RoM. However as ChangeCiv is actually a part of RevolutionDCM you still posted your question in the right place.

I haven't tried the ChangeCiv component before so I am not sure if there is actually something wrong with it or you simply needed to do something more before saving the game as a scenario to get civs data saved properly. I will try to look into this. For the time being as Zappara said you can open the file in Notepad and change things there. It is really quite simple. BTW, most of the data saved in the file for civs are not needed for the scenario to work well you can remove some while you are there also set the time limit to 0 so you may play the game with a different speed than the original one. I do that for games I feel are too good to play them on normal speed so I save the initial AutoSave as a scenario and play it on Marathon.

OOSes a lot when you have revolution turned on in multiplayer

all players get the revolution popups ( including options) even if they dont even own the city that is pushing for revolt.


Founding more than one religion is way too hard and stupid with Revolution on. The -negative Religion penalty for owning a holy city that is not the state religion is prettymuch insurmountable, and I'm a bit tired of having fifteen garrisoning units plus every culture structure I could possibly build and still having cities in the core of my empire become French, only to meekly ask to return to me 15 turns later due to overwhelming culture pressure. Of course all the . .. .. .. .ing buildings I had in there etc no longer work when that happens.

Stack Attack causes the game's UI to stop responding, can't even ESC out to main menu, but the game does not fully crash out.

Revolution needs to be seriously overhauled to work with RoM and IDW well.

First: Having multiple religons should not affect a city seriously.
Second: The effects of IDW should be taken into account.
Third: Turn off Battle effects.
I'm sure there is several other things that also need to be changed.

@Kalimakus

When I start a game a window tells me that the CivChooser and CivCustomizer are turned off. Is there not a way to use them right now? Or is there a way to turn them off and on?

Revolution needs to be seriously overhauled to work with RoM and IDW well.

First: Having multiple religons should not affect a city seriously.
Second: The effects of IDW should be taken into account.
Third: Turn off Battle effects.
I'm sure there is several other things that also need to be changed.



You can overhaul Revolutions by configuring it in %moddir%/revolutions.ini. You can overhaul DCM and IDW using assets/xml/GlobalDefinesAlt.xml. I understand that Revolutions "appears" to be frustrating but that is only because it adds complexity and is harder to master. It is very possible to have a city with more than one religion in it. It depends on a number of factors like civics, cultural buildings, diplomatic context, state religion, great people, Holy Cities etc etc. Revolutions cops a lot of flack only because it is more difficult to master. Jdog5000 and Dom Pedro II the co-authors of Revolutions really know their history pretty well and how to turn that into an excellent game experience.

For example, adding multiple religions to a holy city in an organised religious state is probably not a good idea because of inter-faith tension. But even that depends. You can calm em down in other ways like adding secular culture, or winning wars for them. The whole thing is that running an empire is just that much more volatile in Revolutions like the real world. Everything you do has to be considered in the context of manipulating the support of your own people whether you are a despot or a republican. And if there is an unavoidable uprising against you, squash it. You get a turn or two to prepare your "peace keeping" and then it's time to enforce your rule or be booted out.

However I don't know how RoM would affect Revolutions which is your point I think.
Enjoy.

@Kalimakus

When I start a game a window tells me that the CivChooser and CivCustomizer are turned off. Is there not a way to use them right now? Or is there a way to turn them off and on?

You would be right to be confused. The DCM versions of CivChooser and CivCustomiser are not implemented this is what you are seeing. The user interface is Revolutions mod based. To choose a different civ in game use CTRL-SHIFT-L. Check out the Revolutions documentation for more information.

Founding more than one religion is way too hard and stupid with Revolution on. The -negative Religion penalty for owning a holy city that is not the state religion is prettymuch insurmountable, and I'm a bit tired of having fifteen garrisoning units plus every culture structure I could possibly build and still having cities in the core of my empire become French, only to meekly ask to return to me 15 turns later due to overwhelming culture pressure. Of course all the . .. .. .. .ing buildings I had in there etc no longer work when that happens.



There might be something else you are doing that causes that amount of chaos....You can stop garrisoning peace keepers when the Revolution detail for that city indicates that it is sufficiently garrisoned. That is often only half a dozen units or less. The other thing is that it is not a good idea to over garrison. This is because when a rebellion spawns you need some peace keepers around the city not in it. Don't forget that some rebels can be spies and are therefore invisible. In terms of culture, you can also stop adding culture when the Revolution detail for that city indicates that the culture level is good. You don't have to over do it. Wonders both world and national have a positive effect on the citizenry as well.

There are just so many reasons for domestic instability that it's hard to pinpoint what caused your problem. Could it be that you had so many units and so many culture buildings that your civic budget was blown? That makes the people despise you as well. Did you declare a bad war? Leaders that declare wars that do not bring their people tangible rewards in a reasonable amount of time, like plunder, territory, or inspiration(score), get punished. The people hate stagnated wars. Was your empire too big? If you are significantly oversized relative to other civs, you probably will fragment and break up unless you have hyper control of culture, military and finance.

Hereditary rule is not all it's cracked up to be either. Even though the city might be happy on the surface because of all the garrisoned units, their can be a serious rebellious undercurrent. Remember to distinguish between the surface "facade" of happiness and the underground anti-establishment movements that can emerge despite the "facade" that all is well.

Sometimes the people prefer you if you are a war monger and a despot than a king! At least as a war mongering despot you are honest with them! Instead of garrisoning all those units just so that you can keep your dynasty going, calculate a winnable despotic war, stop research altogether and spend big on culture and espionage. Put those units into battle and the fever of propaganda based culture in the citizenry as well as victory on the battle field can be seriously better than a Hereditary rule based facade of happiness.

The other thing the people might not like much are the labour reform civics. Slavery and serfdom can be ok, but can also be poison. It all depends. This also applies to the legal civics as well....

Another big one is what you research relative to what the people's needs are. If you are a small civ hemmed in by other cultures with no real chances to win a war and you have no significant religion and then you decide to research Mathematics for Construction, instead of Aesthetics for Drama, you're leadership can be in for a lot of trouble! However if you get to Drama, Construction might be absolutely fine.

Don't forget to have spare cash to bribe rebellious cities. Sometimes you can get this cash quick by researching the cultural techs. This has three benefits. The people like you for your efforts on improving cultural knowledge, you can sell these tech's without increasing your rivals military strength directly, and the extra cash makes the people more confident in you as well. Just make sure that if you bribe one city, that you have enough dosh to bribe others as well! Corruption leads to corruption.

To learn to play Revolutions, you don't have a lot of in game documentation (um like none for example) but you have 4000 years of real history as your documentation! You have to play Revolutions in an experimentation mind set. Every time you change civic, declare war, decide to rapidly expand the population, loose a trade deal important to civic happiness, etc......save the game. That way you can go back and try something else. It's the only way to learn. Don't assume that Revolutions is broken. It's not perfect, but it' very well balanced, seriously. (At least relative to vanilla and DCM it is....)

Cheers.

The problem is, Glider, that in ROM there are a lot more religions, and they dont come from easily avoidable technologies. Am I supposed to avoid Masonry because it'll found amun ra, before I found Confusianism from code of laws and/or Taoism from civil service? Nagualism is founded from Calendar. You know I can't skip that.

It's easy to get bright grey or even bright white Religion negative when I'm still left with Despotism government.

That scenario I related earlier is a real one. My SECOND town in a six town empire became a giant pain in the butt. It was on a nice fertile piece of land and no matter what I did, being jewish ( because I had researched organized religion first) when my empire was Confucian apparently pissed everybody the fekk off in this 12 pop city to the point where having an entire army, every +culture building, etc were not enough.

The AI has similar problems. They constantly suffer rebellion.

whole problem would be dealt with by limiting amount of religions one civ can found.

or how about when u reach certain tech that founds a religion, u could choose not to found it, it would bring up an event, where are 4 options:

1. "suppress such a new idea by killing someone"
-1(or more) happiness for certain amount of turn, no religion founded.

2. "bribe those who came up these new ideas to make them forget it"
takes some of ur gold but no - happiness and no religion founded.

3. "i see nothing wrong in those ideas, maybe they are even better than old ones, spread the word"
takes some of ur money, but religion is founded and there is some chance that religion spreads through trade routes.

4. "i dont care, i simply dont care"
religion founded as normally.

and when no religion is founded, next player who reach that tech have the same choices.
what do u guys think about that? :P

I've noticed also that Revolution can be hard - it requires you to learn totally new way of playing. Add to that all the new things from RoM and you'll probably needing lots of time to figure all out. :D

@Dewion

Those would be great, I'm sure some python coder could figure out how to make such feature. :) Another possibility would be make it to event ie. when certain civics are active, there would be chance to get those options - though it doesn't prevent founding that religion. You can of course use Inquisition units to remove religions from cities that cause trouble.

First of all it is quite nice to see some active discussion going on here. Secondly, thanks Glider for your thorough explanations they are really helpful.

Now, Revolution makes the game a little bit harder (sometimes a lot harder) but this is actually one of the reasons why it is such a great mod. still I found through playing that you can always manage your way. I can actually point you to some discussion where people were complaining that it is too easy to manage Revolution so that it is sort of unfair to the AI. I don't believe it is too easy but I don't think it is impossible either. It is true that several things in RoM particularly make managing Revolution relatively harder, but again this why I felt RoM to be an excellent environment for it. Many people around here seek real challenge that is not based on silly advantage thrown to the AI and RoM+Revolution sure give you that.

About founding more than one religion. I do avoid it. Some times it is harmful but I better delay getting this or that tech a while than having too much strife in my cities. Still, it is quite inevitable to have more than one religion in your empire. In this case you have to make sure that your state religion is present in every city. This won't work if your state Religion is one of the non-missionaries religions in RoM. If it happens to be so switch to any one with missionaries so that you can spread it. Also as Zappara pointed out, we are lucky to have inquisitors in RoM. (PS. I personally hate Inquisition)

As Glider said you can fine tune many factors for Revolution through the ini file. If you feel that it is not really fun you can turn the revolution part from the custom game page. The rest of the components especially BarbarianCiv are still fun to have.

I don't intend to change the way any of the Add-On components work internally. It belongs to their creators only to do internal modifications (unless it is some sort of bug fixing). In fact I encourage you all to voice your opinions on the appropriate threads in Revolutions sub-forums.

About IDW I also suspect that it doesn't work with the Stack Attack component of DCM. In my first few games I didn't get the messages after combat telling me the influence change due to battle results. I turned Stack Attack off and started to get these messages. I might only be an interface issue though I doubt it. I will look into that and hope Glider will look into it as well as he is the one who merged the SDK sources.

I turned Stack Attack off and started to get these messages. I might only be an interface issue though I doubt it. I will look into that and hope Glider will look into it as well as he is the one who merged the SDK sources.

Ah hah. That is a good find! I have experimented with that myself after you have observed it and you are spot on. I have confirmed it without a doubt, STACK ATTACK IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH IDW. The game still works, it's just that SA cancels the effect of combat influence in IDW. It was deceptive because parts of IDW still work with SA on like plunder influence. With SA off, not only is the interface correct, but the border behaviour is too.

Luckily for the moment, stack attack is not working well anyway (interface focus problems and CTD's).
So the suggestion is to turn stack attack OFF.

Cheers and thanks for an excellent find Kalimakhus! :)

The problem is, Glider, that in ROM there are a lot more religions, and they dont come from easily avoidable technologies.

That seems to be a pretty good point regarding RoM and Revolutions. You have identified an apparent real issue with Revolutions and RoM. In my opinion, that is a definite game unbalancer for sure. Revolutions was designed around six primary religions out of the box. However Revolutions can be adjusted thanks to the forethought of Jdog5000 and DPII.

From memory, if you look through the Revolutions forums (encyclopaedic proportions) at one point there may have been a discussion about Revolutions in the context of mods with greater than six religions. For the moment, experiment with these settings in Revolution.ini:

; Unhappy cities with your state religion plus another religion can join a religious revolution
AllowStateReligionToJoin = False

; Adjust influence of various factors in inciting a revolution
ReligionModifier = 0.5???

If you think that the AI is too unstable, then adjust that too:

; Adjust rate of rev index accumulation, additional options for human (offset adds that value to each city per turn, keep it small)
IndexModifier = 0.8??? (AI)
IndexOffset = 0 (AI)
HumanIndexModifier = 1.0
HumanIndexOffset = 0

As to how much, I'm not sure but start with small numbers like 0.1 or go and check out the Revolutions forums. To test your settings, start a game and run it automatically on standard map sizes and speeds using auto-play (CTRL-SHIFT-X). Four hundred turns on auto should see you through a whole game.

Just a couple of points about Revolutions I didn't mention before. Cities can have "rebellious spirits" visible in the Revolution detail for the city. This means that they have a rebellious undercurrent to them just because that is the way it is with them historically. Those cities can rebel more easily. The other thing is the domino effect in Revolutions. If one city rebels and other cities are critical, word spreads around as to what has happened and then the lot can go!

For example, you are spending 100% on culture to maintain the support of the people during a desperate war. You look at the Revolution detail for all cities in terms of adequate culture levels. All cities indicate ok on culture. You then go to the most critically rebellious city screen and decrease the culture slider so that this one city is no longer adequately cultured. However all of the rest of your other semi critical cities are still adequately cultured. If you play a turn through, that one most critical city might rebel because of the lack of culture, which then topples all the other semi criticals too, despite adequate culture. It depends on how critical the situation is :eek:

Back to the greater than six religions issue, with more than six religions diplomacy might be unbalanced too because there would hardly be any neutral civs. These civs can act like brokers between opposing religious states. Hmmmmm not sure.....If you can fix the excessive religions problem, I might even play RoM RevolutionDCM too. Sounds cool.

Cheers.

PS) Revolutions for RoM has not been adjusted to understand the extra techs and civics? If that is correct, that is NOT a game breaker because techs and civics unknown to the Revolutions code simply would have no effect on the accumulation of the Revolution revolt index. Does Kalimakhus concur?

You can of course use Inquisition units to remove religions from cities that cause trouble.

That sounds like fun if the AI also knows how to do it! Is there a real historical equivalent where Inquisition has been used to remove the rebelliousness of a village, town, city? Probably.

How does Inquisition work in this mod anyway? I remember reading somewhere that Jdog5000 the co-author of Revolutions, has released a modcomponent that includes Inquisition in it. I wonder if he has re-coded Inquisition for Revolutions?

Cheers.

That sounds like fun if the AI also knows how to do it! Is there a real historical equivalent where Inquisition has been used to remove the rebelliousness of a village, town, city? Probably.

How does Inquisition work in this mod anyway? I remember reading somewhere that Jdog5000 the co-author of Revolutions, has released a modcomponent that includes Inquisition in it. I wonder if he has re-coded Inquisition for Revolutions?

Cheers.I combined 'Inquisition - Limited Religions' mod component to RoM 2.0, though had to disable some parts of it because they weren't working properly. It's all done in python and AI players should know how to use those units, there is some code blocks for AI's decision making when to build and use those units. Jdog5000 version might be lot better if it's been done through SDK and not with python. :)

@Glider

About Civics. RoM has two extra civics categories and more options for each category. I modeled values for original categories according to how close they are to the vanilla ones. i.e. I used values compatible with those used for similar civic options. For extra categories I kept neutral values so they won't affect revolution index. My idea was that there will be too many factors adding to the revolution index which is unbalancing. So Revolution in RoM does have values for all civics but for some of these the values are neutral so practically ineffective.

@Everybody

I still think that you people should give it more trials before thinking that Revolution is not balanced for RoM. Revolution depends mostly on general concepts that don't change from mod to another. Sure more religions can make things harder, but not that much. Another successful mod (CivFusion by Ripple) has Revolution along with extra religions and quite an intricate tech-tree, still it works well.

I played several games, with this Add-On + the Extra Civs one and I still think Revolution is quite manageable. Yes I had prior experience with Revolution and I developed my own tactics to manage it. Some of these are sure different from Glider's but both work. Each one can develop his/her own tactics that works well with his/her play style. There is a learning curve, RoM is more complicated than BTS, Revolution makes it even more complicated = challenging = fun.

@Zappara

JDog uses BMarnz inquisition component but heavily modifies it so you can build inquisitors only if you adopt Theocracy and can use them only in cities with high revolution risk due to religious strife. The operation will cause extra unhappiness either it fails or succeeds but will also raise the revolution index on failure. It is all implemented in Python.

@Zappara

JDog uses BMarnz inquisition component but heavily modifies it so you can build inquisitors only if you adopt Theocracy and can use them only in cities with high revolution risk due to religious strife. The operation will cause extra unhappiness either it fails or succeeds but will also raise the revolution index on failure. It is all implemented in Python.

Thanks for that explanation. I like the implementation idea on one hand because the whole concept of Inquisition is contradictory in terms of rebelliousness. It both can solve rebellion issues and make them worse. So this is how the great Jdog has solved this dilemma in the game. Cool :)

The problem for me is that I'm not confident Inquisition is a good idea. In reality, when does an inquisition erase all traces of a religion in the long term? The only way a religion can be erased long term is just to suppress it's effect while it still exists. The people still have the religion in their minds and hearts. That cannot be simply erased in the long term even if it can be for a very short period of time. Any thoughts?

If Jdog's implementation meant that a religion was erased, but that it could easily spread back into the city (like very easily by osmosis), then that would be good in my opinion. Inquisitions could then be used just as a short term fix to get the threat of rebellion down a little, a bit like how a bribe does. That would be good.

I'm toying with the idea of adding it RevolutionDCM. I've had a request to. Not sure. Would it help RoM?
Cheers.

@Glider

About Civics. RoM has two extra civics categories and more options for each category. I modeled values for original categories according to how close they are to the vanilla ones. i.e. I used values compatible with those used for similar civic options. For extra categories I kept neutral values so they won't affect revolution index. My idea was that there will be too many factors adding to the revolution index which is unbalancing. So Revolution in RoM does have values for all civics but for some of these the values are neutral so practically ineffective.

Totally cool that you were able to do this and your idea sounds very good especially relating the index by civics that have similarity with the vanilla civics.

By the sound of it, you are getting to know Revolutions from under the hood as well as playing the great mod. Am I delusional thinking that the revolution index is somehow also affected by the technology you have chosen to research? This is perhaps a little difficult to answer.

Great stuff.

I still think that you people should give it more trials before thinking that Revolution is not balanced for RoM. Revolution depends mostly on general concepts that don't change from mod to another. Sure more religions can make things harder, but not that much. Another successful mod (CivFusion by Ripple) has Revolution along with extra religions and quite an intricate tech-tree, still it works well.

Yes that is what I have been thinking as an after thought as well. I cannot be sure in my mind whether Jdog's great code actually is sensitive to the presense of many religions or not. I suspect that it's not about the total number of religions present in the knowledge tree, but how many are present in a city. So somehow, if there are more religions present in the technology tree, you would have to steer your way through that tree more carefully. But with a knowledge tree as big as it is in RoM, there is probably a few different ways of doing it.

We must not forget the AI. Is it capable of making such a careful plot through the tech tree? I suspect that it doesn't, but I can't be sure. Whatever, Jdog has provided ways of controlling how difficult or easy it is for the AI so we can't ask for more at the moment.

Cheers.

Thanks for that explanation. I like the implementation idea on one hand because the whole concept of Inquisition is contradictory in terms of rebelliousness. It both can solve rebellion issues and make them worse. So this is how the great Jdog has solved this dilemma in the game. Cool :)

The problem for me is that I'm not confident Inquisition is a good idea. In reality, when does an inquisition erase all traces of a religion in the long term? The only way a religion can be erased long term is just to suppress it's effect while it still exists. The people still have the religion in their minds and hearts. That cannot be simply erased in the long term even if it can be for a very short period of time. Any thoughts?

If Jdog's implementation meant that a religion was erased, but that it could easily spread back into the city (like very easily by osmosis), then that would be good in my opinion. Inquisitions could then be used just as a short term fix to get the threat of rebellion down a little, a bit like how a bribe does. That would be good.

I'm toying with the idea of adding it RevolutionDCM. I've had a request to. Not sure. Would it help RoM?
Cheers.

I think JDog's modifications makes it work quite well with Revolution, though the idea that you can't remove a religion from a city unless it has a high revolution index is not realistic. On the other hand locally erasing religions by oppression was unfortunately successful in many cases throughout history. It wasn't successful in contemporary times because it was carried out in the name of ideology and not rival religions. You can't replace religion with ideology because they don't satisfy the same needs.

Adding inquisition can be good for RevolutionDCM but it won't work with RoM as Zappara already added a different implementation. I will have to replace his implementation with JDogs' if you choose to add it. In case Zappara decides to make the Add-On a permanent part of RoM then JDog's implementation may be more appropriate.

Totally cool that you were able to do this and your idea sounds very good especially relating the index by civics that have similarity with the vanilla civics.

By the sound of it, you are getting to know Revolutions from under the hood as well as playing the great mod. Am I delusional thinking that the revolution index is somehow also affected by the technology you have chosen to research? This is perhaps a little difficult to answer.

Great stuff.

I didn't see any direct link between techs researched and Revolution index. There is definitely no tags in the TechInfos file. This means that either it is handled using hard coded tech names in code (bad programming and I don't think JDog would do it), or it depends on the flavor assigned to the tech. I will sure have more thorough look into the code once I have time for that. It is one of the most interesting pieces of code ever made for Civ4. One can learn a lot by studying it.

I like the addition of Revolution to RoM, though i'm Glad theres the optino to deactivate parts of it for those who don't agree. Having multiple religions does make it a bit more difficult, though not unmanageably so. I still have problems sometimes keeping cities from breaking away early in the game, but once i can survive the first couple dozen turns, i'm usually good to go. ;)

I just downloaded and fully updated Rev/DCM into RoM, and for some reason when I now try to create a custom game, the Unrestricted Leaders option doesn't seem to want to work. I was wanting to try a Domination/Conquest game with Churchill leading the Germans, but it doesn't let me change the nation, for churchill or any other leader..... I've tried adjusting settings on the custom game screen but to no avail. And obviously, yes, I do have Unrestricted Leaders option selected ;)

I just downloaded and fully updated Rev/DCM into RoM, and for some reason when I now try to create a custom game, the Unrestricted Leaders option doesn't seem to want to work. I was wanting to try a Domination/Conquest game with Churchill leading the Germans, but it doesn't let me change the nation, for churchill or any other leader..... I've tried adjusting settings on the custom game screen but to no avail. And obviously, yes, I do have Unrestricted Leaders option selected ;)
Hey Kalimakhus, hopefully I can help you on this as I had the same problem with my modpack when integrating Revolution v1.42

I was able to fix it by moving all the Custom Game options for the Revolution mod to the end of the list and then recompiling the DLL. That allowed the unrestricted leaders option to work again.

I just downloaded and fully updated Rev/DCM into RoM, and for some reason when I now try to create a custom game, the Unrestricted Leaders option doesn't seem to want to work.


Did you check the Revolution bug forum? There's something about it there.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=226035&page=11
Cheers

Adding inquisition can be good for RevolutionDCM

I've done a merge of RevolutionDCM verion 0.6 with Inquisitions 1.0 if you want to give it a trial Kalimakhus:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9483

I won't incorporate it into RevolutionDCM proper until there is a way to turn the component off if you don't like it. At the moment, it seems stable and ok but it really needs to be able to be turned off like other components.

I am slightly warming up to the idea of Inquisitions a bit....This is because you can purge a non-state religion at any time under Theocracy, but if you do you not only risk happiness, Revolution index and diplomacy hits, but I think the buildings of that religion are burnt down too. Now that makes an inquisition a serious decision to have to make.

The AI appears to play it ok. The logic the AI uses to decide on an Inquisition appears to be in the python file CvGameUtils.py. There's quite a bit of detail there.

Cheers.

Haven't read the whole thread, as I am currently playing ;)

One thing to be said, though:
Revolutions surely make the game much harder, but much more interesting as well.
The answer to the problem of being constantly in danger of having revolutions due to many religions is the "Free Religion" civic. Make sure you get it as soon as possible and enjoy! :king:

Avoid to make any religion your state religion (I typically only have a state religion for some rounds to grant me the Apostolic Palace, then I switch back to No State Religion or Free Religion).
Avoid Theocracy as well, as this triggers the religious unrest as well.

One thing I have to state once more is the dominance of Judaism in the game. Playing on King/giant maps, I constantly manage to found Judaism and to reap the fruits of it (+2 :gold:, +1 :science: per city).

This makes for an almost mandatory pattern: In your capital, you have to build The Oracle and Petra to get Great Prophets like no good (the first one often can be used to get Meditation), then build the Temple of Solomon and you are on the safe side.
Since Judaism will be founded in one of the additional cities, you have a prophet-farm (capital) and a science and money generator (holy city of Judaism).

So, Judaism should be tweaked, as far as I see it. My proposal would be to give the Temple of Solomon something like +15% :gold:, but only +1 :gold: per city. The additional +1 :science: I would turn off completely.

And last but not least a question to Kalimakhus:
can you provide us with an updated version of your add-on, including Bhruic-patch 1.21, please? :)

@little_cyclone

Thanks for reporting this. I never play unrestricted leaders myself so I would have never located this otherwise.

@Amra

Thanks a lot for the valuable advice. I should have remembered this from the change log for your second beta. I currently use the DLL compiled by Glider for his RevolutionDCM, so I will first see if he would apply the fix.

PS. I can't wait for the next step on the way to Amra Advanced.

@Glider

I am downloading it and will sure give it a trial right away. I would like to see how it differs from Zappara's implementation.

There won't be any harm in keeping this as a side project (in case the merge is not time consuming of course). On my side I will keep Zappara's implementation because it is simpler and has no effect on Revolution index. If he decides to incorporate Revolution into RoM permanently then he would also choose which implementation is more appropriate.

BTW, do you intend to apply the fix Amra mentioned? I think JDog is going to implement it in his next version anyway.

@Commander Bello

I am glad you enjoy the Add-On and it sure seems that you have got the hang of it. I agree with you that Revolution makes RoM harder but still more exciting.

I don't avoid having a state religion as it has a lot of benefits. I however make sure to build the wonder that unlocks all Religious Civics so once my empire is large and diverse I switch to free religion and just forget all about religious strife in my cities.

The Judaism issue is RoM specific and I think Zappara will comment on your report concerning it soon. You may like to report it in a more general RoM thread for more discussion by people who play RoM but don't play the Add-On.

I had no idea Bhruic updated his patch. It is a little odd as it is expected that a new official patch should be released soon. (Well may be it won't be soon then !!). Anyway, as I mentioned before I use the DLL compiled by Glider and so I am not quite welling to compile my own DLL unless it would add some new component. I will check the change log of the new Bhruic patch and see if it introduces some critical fix. Either way I am sure a coming version of Revolution will use Bhruic new patch and then it will make its way to this Add-On eventually.

Either way I am sure a coming version of Revolution will use Bhruic new patch and then it will make its way to this Add-On eventually.

I've updated RevolutionDCM with Bhruic's latest patch but Amra's solution to the unrestricted leaders option kind of escaped the compile stage this time round. If it's a serious issue I'll do another compile but if not, then it'll have to wait awhile.

PS) Another interesting thing about Revolution Inquisitions is that the AI is programmed to have to consider the ramifications of a loss of culture if it decides to conduct an Inquisition. For vanilla technology tree players like me, Inquisitions makes Theology a more fun goal now.

Cheers.

@Glider

This was fast :goodjob: I actually found out that some of the latest fixes of Bhruic are quite interesting. I guess I will issue a patch tomorrow with the new DLL and some few bug fixes as well.

The unrestricted leaders fix is not critical but I know some people do love this option as it allows unpredictable and new experience with each game.

now that u guys are adding more and more DLL:s from other mods, how about better AI mod? or is it for BtS? if not, can someone convert it? :P or any other mods that improve AI.. ;)

@Dewion

AFAIK most of the improvements that were included in BetterAI mod for Warlords were implemented in BTS. Otherwise someone would have ported it to BTS. I don't say that the AI can't be improved any further. We all know that the way the AI works does have many pitfalls. If you or anyone else know of a mod that improves the AI in a tangible way I will consider adding it. Also if you know that BetterAI actually has improvements that didn't make it to BTS just point me to a source of information that proves it. In such case I will look into porting it to BTS.

For all you RoM players that enjoy ten or more religions in your mod, be happy with Jdog5000's bug find in the BTS code over the weekend regarding the AI underdefending newly captured holy cities. Check out Bhruic's patch forum for more details. So no surprise attacking poor AI's while you wait for the bug to be fixed ok?!

Seriously though it's just a small bug that weakens the AI, not serious at all.
Cheers. :)

Everybody.. A new Add-On version is available now through the link in the first post. This version will work with RoM2.01 patch. It also updates the DLL to the latest RevolutionDCM0.7 which is based on Bhruic unofficial patach v 1.21. There are a number of minor bug fixes as well.

I would like to thank you all for your support for this Add-On. It has now 1678 downloads throughout the different releases. The last release has more than 1000 downloads.

Wow, fast work Kalimakhus! Got to update some info on main thread now then.. :)

Running to dl both :)

thanks for update.. :P
but why those components are deactivated? example revolution, barbarianciv etc.. how to activate them?

@Dewion

Do you play an earth map rather than a random game? I guess you are. If it is the case you need to start the game by going to custom scenario then select the map you want to play. All the options should be available there for you to turn them on. I will update the earth map for this add-on soon.

lol, i didn't even see those options.. :D
thx.. ;)

For those who would like to play the earth map with only 4 starting ancient civs. I have updated the map so now all revolution options are turned on by default. The starting date is fixed to be compatible with RoM i.e. 5500 BC. I also disabled time victory and enabled religious victory by default.

Options can still be modified by loading the map as custom scenario. DCM and IDW options are not fixed for the map and follows the settings in GlobalDefinesAlt.xml file so whatever you set there will apply to the map as well.

I hope you people will try the map and tell me how it goes with you :)

Get it here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6713150&postcount=3

... Luckily for the moment, stack attack is not working well anyway (interface focus problems and CTD's).
So the suggestion is to turn stack attack OFF.

Cheers and thanks for an excellent find Kalimakhus! :)
This is good to hear!

Uhhh, I've been trying to find this for about a day now... How does one turn off stack attack? I've searched, looked in the .ini's, and still have no idea. I'm obviously referring to the DCM stack attack and not the normal game options one.

Love the mod! Thanks in advance!

@James009
All DCM options can be controlled by going into the file:
modname\assets\xml\GlobalDefinesAlt.xml

Use a text editor and change 1's to 0's (on to off) or 0's to 1's (off to on). Keep a backup copy available in case you stuff up. IDW is controlled from this same file.

If you go to any of the individual forums for the various mod components, you can find out more information there. With more time, eventually all of these options will become controllable in game without having to edit by hard.

Just a thought, but might be good idea to to turn off by default those effects that are known to cause CTDs or other problems. Their default setting can be later changed in patches, when they've been fixed and work in all situations. Less frustration for casual players who just want to play and don't know anything about configuring those files. :)

I thought of doing that but I then felt that a player should first be exposed to all the components and experience what they have to offer. None of DCM components cause CTDs from turn one and many people do continue turning them on because they find them so enjoyable that an occasional CTD can be tolerated from time to time. Only in few times you would run into a reproducable CTD that you can't go beyond unless you disable one component or another.

In my own games I used to disable only battle effects because I didn't like them from a visual point of view and I hated the burden they represent on my display card. I recently started to disable stack attack as well but only because I like IDW more.

Anyway I attached here a copy of GlobalDefinesAlt.xml file where all DCM components that were reported to cause problems are disabled. Effectively this only leaves field bombardment and air missions as working components. AFAIK no complaints were attributed to these two components.

For anyone who would like these options disabled and find editing xml files confusing (and yes it can be confusing), just put this file in Rise of Mankind\assets\xml.

If many people think these components should be disabled by default I will do so in any next patch.

@Zappara
In RevolutionDCM I do turn off stack attack by default now because of Kalimakhus's find that IDW and it are incompatible. If there is a component that causes other components to fail, then I turn it off. But if it is just a solitary component that can be isolated in effect to just itself and a CTD, I might leave it on depending on how severe the CTD problem is. Kalimakhus is correct that people should experience the component for themselves.
Cheers.

I think disabling Battle effects and Stack attack by default should be enough. Battle effects just because those stay on plots way too long after the wars have finished (not really realistic in my opinion) and Stack attack for the reason you mentioned - I like Influence Driven War more and I haven't really used stack attack ever in normal BtS games.

Battle effects just because those stay on plots way too long after the wars have finished

......and then slow down the graphics frame rate too. It cannot be rocket science to work out why battle effects persist too long in some cases. I like battle effects but agree that they should be scaled back in duration considerably and be sparked off by different conditions to present. Dale the creater of battle effects has gone missing for some time now and perhaps the rewrite of it will have to be done by one of us.

Cheers.

OK, in any coming patch or update for the Add-On Battle Effects and Stack Attack will be disabled by default.

@Zappara

Though Stack Attack is problematic (a little) it is worth trying. I still believe that it is how combat should be resolved in Civ. Just try it once with two diversified stacks clashing and especially in the industrial and modern era. You will be amazed really.

Battle effects just because those stay on plots way too long after the wars have finished (not really realistic in my opinion)

.It cannot be rocket science to work out why battle effects persist too long in some cases. I like battle effects but agree that they should be scaled back in duration considerably
As far as I remember, battle effects stay 1 turn per any combat having taken place on that particular tile.

Now, I have had a battle including some 50+ units from my nation and some 40+ units from the enemy. You can imagine that this will make the battlefield stay almost for the rest of the game.

I think there should be some kind of cap like 5 or (that is, what I would prefer) 3 rounds.

I admit, in the area of Verdun/France, you may after 90 years still identify some battlefields of WW1.
Nevertheless, from a game perspective there is not that much fun to still have to see battle smoke caused by a medevial battle in modern ages.

@Everybody

If you have the Extra Civ Add-On installed you will notice a problem where crossbowmen won't have their bombard accuracy assigned to them. The info pop-up will not show bombard accuracy for the unit and when using the bombard ability it will always miss the target.

The cause of the problem is that in one of the Extra Civs' files there is redefinition of the Crossbowman that supersede the one of RoM. The full path of the file is: ..\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Rise of Mankind\Assets\Modules\Custom Civilizations\Denmark\Flavor\crossbowman\officer\O fficer_Civ4UnitInfos.xml
This file can be safely removed as it is not actually supposed to be there in the first place. Besides the Archer Bombard problem it also causes crossbowmen to require Iron resource while it is intended in RoM not to require it.

I have notified Zappara with this on the RoM 2.0 bug reports thread and hopefully in his coming update of the Extra Civs pack the file will be removed.

On other side, if some of the UUs defined by the Extra Civs pack should have bombardment capability or Air Missions they won't currently have them. Once I have enough time to look into this I will prepare a patch that allows such units to work as expected.

So as of this minute:

1. To play ROM 2.01, you need ROM 2.0 and the patch.

2. The Rev add-on is compatible with 2.01.

3. The Extra Civ add-on 1.01 is NOT compatible with 2.01.

Is this right?

@Edward The Big

Extra Civ Add-on has few issues with RoM v2.01, it should work though so it's still compatible. Extra Civ Add-on is causing bigger bugs to Revolution Add-on so at this point I wouldn't recommend using both addons at the same time. If you play without Denmark you should be just fine and you'd be missing bombard ability from some units as Kalimakhus explained. So as a basic rule: Any time main mod gets patch, add-ons most likely will need patch too to make sure they're still 100% compatible with each other and match the changes done to main mod.

@Edward the Big

The issues of the Extra Civ pack are so minor that you most probably won't recognize them. The issue of the Crossb