The Road to War: Add-on Pack 2!

With a recorded 90,000+ downloads (from all sources) the Road to War has become the second most popular mod for Civilization IV!

A HUGE thankyou to all the fans of RtW for helping to form the best World War II mod available for Civ4!

Join the war and rewrite history today!

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Version Notes:

The current version is Released 2.0 and is dated 15 April 2008.

The current version is for Beyond the Sword 3.13.

Please ensure you use the latest version and BtS patch for compatibility and support.

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DISCLAIMER:

THIS ADD-ON PACK IS NOT ASSOCIATED WITH FIRAXIS GAMES OR 2K GAMES IN ANY WAY. USE OF THIS ADD-ON IS AT THE USER'S DISCRETION AND FIRAXIS GAMES, 2K GAMES AND THE MAKERS OF THIS MOD ARE NOT LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES.

BY DOWNLOADING AND INSTALLING THIS ADD-ON PACK THE USER ACCEPTS THESE TERMS AND ACCEPTS THAT USE OF THE ADD-ON PACK IS AT THEIR DISCRETION.

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Installation:

Please follow these instructions to obtain and install the Add-On Pack:

1. Download the Add-On Pack (410 Meg). http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9121
2. Delete the existing RtW Mod folder ..\Beyond the Sword\Mods\The Road to War
3. Unzip the downloaded file to the same Mods folder as step 2 ..\Beyond the Sword\Mods\.
4. Start BtS, the RtW and play!

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Changes:

There have been a great many changes in the Road to War over the last six months. The changes are so comprehensive that no definitive change list exists. However, you will notice differences in every aspect of the game.

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Other:

Please post any comments, suggestions, bugs or anything else to do with RtW Add-On Pack 2 in this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=271445

I hope you enjoy The Road to War!

Dale

PS: 1936 - Global Assault will be available after the next patch (it was too big to downgrade to 3.13).

Awesome i am downloading it now:p

my last game was as Nazis, i eventually conquered all of my enemies in Europe Africa and America

I also played as the phillipines in the pacific and actually won :) weird though the major civs- US, UK did less than Australia and Dutch (hope this will be fixed)

;and also are any new units in this add on pack?
will combined arms mod be in this?(i love that mod;))

Congratulation Dale on adding yet another awesome incarnation of an all time modding master piece. I am downloading with great excitement. It is sure the time to tread this Road once again.

Wow, a lot of ass-covering there on the DL page! (No, just kiddin'!):p DLing.

And Global Assault is too big to downgrade?! You have been busy! :goodjob: Dale!:thumbsup:

;and also are any new units in this add on pack?
will combined arms mod be in this?(i love that mod;))

Yes, DCM 1.5 is in RtW AOP2. :)

Congratulation Dale on adding yet another awesome incarnation of an all time modding master piece. I am downloading with great excitement. It is sure the time to tread this Road once again.

Thankyou, it's great to hear that someone has fun with the mod. Yes, 90,000 people downloaded AOP1, but don't assume they all tell me if they enjoy the mod. ;)

Wow, a lot of ass-covering there on the DL page! (No, just kiddin'!):p DLing.

And Global Assault is too big to downgrade?! You have been busy! :goodjob: Dale!:thumbsup:

Yeah, being an official BtS mod certain disclaimers are required. ;)

As for Global Assault, it was written in the next patch (as an official mod I get certain liberties in assisting patch writing) but when it was obvious it had been delayed I downgraded AOP2 to 3.13. But the 1936 - GA is too big to downgrade. :)

Dale,
As always, wonderful job. I have literally played no other game (Civ or otherwise) except for RTW since I bought BTS last year! WW2 rocks and I appreciate your work on this effort. Downloading now.

Is there a difference btw this release and beta 3 of 1.2 ?

Can one switch on/off features in DCM 1.5 ?

Theres a number of changes from last beta to AOP2, including all the maps.

Yes, use the same XML file as DCM to turn things on/off.

Well, I successfully installed the new AOP, but I get the same result I did with 1.2 beta3 -- it crashes to disk upon reload when I hit enter to end the very first turn after loading the next day. It was fine for the hour-plus I played the other night, but not now. I'm playing Open Mode.

RtW AOP2 was downloaded 10,000+ times in the first 48 hours!

That's a whoping 4 Terrabytes of data!

This takes all RtW downloads to over the 100K mark.

Thanks everyone. :)
Dale

Well, I successfully installed the new AOP, but I get the same result I did with 1.2 beta3 -- it crashes to disk upon reload when I hit enter to end the very first turn after loading the next day. It was fine for the hour-plus I played the other night, but not now. I'm playing Open Mode.

Wierd, no one else has reported problems, and I can successfully reload old saves.

Oh damn you Dale, I've only just re-started a game with Germany last week with the old Add on Pack and now you release this.

Could you summerize what new features are in this version? I don't want to download and overwrite my current save.. I'm pretty far along too so I don't want that evil 'incompatible version' message.

Umm...... too many changes to list (or read that as I've forgotten). It's 6 months of changes. :D

Finish your current game, then start a new with AOP2.

What I don't understand is it seems to be specific to RTW, and did the same under beta3. I am currently doing a PBEM *not* using RTW on the same 3.13 install of CIV and that game is running fine.

Dale, I am getting errors loading some of my saved games. I occasionally get lucky and I'm able to load a game, but most of my saves give me a critical error when loading. I'm trying to figure out if it's something on my end or not. AOP1 worked flawlessly for me.

BTW - I love this mod. I just stumbled on it a few weeks ago and have been playing it whenever I get a chance. Keep up the good work!

Hi Dale,

Good job

But.. Am i reading the tech tree wrong or are german heavy tanks worse than light tanks. 35 Str, 3 mov?

regards


Dale

Dale, I am getting errors loading some of my saved games. I occasionally get lucky and I'm able to load a game, but most of my saves give me a critical error when loading. I'm trying to figure out if it's something on my end or not. AOP1 worked flawlessly for me.

BTW - I love this mod. I just stumbled on it a few weeks ago and have been playing it whenever I get a chance. Keep up the good work!

Hi, please post one of the save games. :)

Hey Dale! Thanks for the reply. I did get my saves to load by manually starting up the mod before loading the game. I used to load right off of the BTS main menu and letting the save load the mod. Now my problem is the very next turn I get the critical error. I'll load it up, end my turn, watch a few planes fly around then it will crash.

My save (http://home.comcast.net/~bustamike1/Chancellor Hitler AD-1940-January-Fortnight 1.CivBeyondSwordSave)

Sounds like I am having much the same problem: I too start the mod then load the game, hit return to end the turn, see a couple of spy planes fly around, then it crashes.

This mod is in Multilingua?

similar problem to VeteranLurker here.

ending turn from a loaded save will crash every time.

Dale! First of all - thanks! I love WWII so your and your colleagues work is like heaven for me... I appreciate it very much! I wonder though, since I've started a new game, about a few things. The Tigers have the same strength (35) as the medium tanks? But only 2 in movement? The Panzer IV was pretty heavy as it was before, now its awful... I can cope with that, but the Tiger should be stronger. The tech-tree, I've done all the techs I can, the rest are colured with red and out of reach? Why is that? And I can't steal them either? Hope to hear from you soon! /Jakob

Lurker, I downloaded your game to see if I got a different result than you and sure enough, it crashed.

I did however notice something similar in both of our games. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it, but finland and sweden showed up as little square symbols on the list on my game. I think just finland showed up as a little square symbol on yours.

http://home.comcast.net/~bustamike1/list.JPG

Not sure if this is part of the problem or not. It's just an observation.

I also get crashes when loading the save file directly. With the attached sav file, end the turn, watch the UK attack some cruisers, then the game crashes. I tried making some extra moves at the end of the turn (which helped avoid one other earlier crash), but I can't seem to avoid this one.

Like the previous post, Ryti of Finland does not show up in the leader points.

Thanks for this wonderful mod!!

The only fundamental problem that this game seems to have, along with other mods, is that the AI seems extremly weak. I think that the most logical approach to this would be to upgrade the AI so that instead of begging for mercy as a result of Massive industry advantage the AI has, I would have to beg for mercy from the innate skill the AI uses while we share the same economic bonuses. case in point: I play france (or china in pacific) I would like to have the no economic penalty with the opposing force, but the AI would operate more like a computer playing Chess than the inherently weak AI used here.

for all of you whose game crashes :

did you try to download the 3.13 patch for BtS?:goodjob:

also do you think on your next update there will be a unit to remove a religion from a city?

i felt it weird that in German occupied france all the cities were democratic :)

The only fundamental problem that this game seems to have, along with other mods, is that the AI seems extremly weak. I think that the most logical approach to this would be to upgrade the AI so that instead of begging for mercy as a result of Massive industry advantage the AI has, I would have to beg for mercy from the innate skill the AI uses while we share the same economic bonuses. case in point: I play france (or china in pacific) I would like to have the no economic penalty with the opposing force, but the AI would operate more like a computer playing Chess than the inherently weak AI used here.

Umm..... there is no economic benefit given to the AI. The only thing you could be thinking of is Fascist industry civic. But that's given to Germany/Italy/Japan regardless, even if played by you.

But yes, the entire BtS AI is as weak as piss. It's unfortunately an inherited problem for all Mods because all mods use the BtS AI which is where the weakness comes from.

Hi Dale,

Just wanted to say I enjoy the mod and thanks for the effort you've put into it.

A couple other posters have mentioned the panzer IV 35 str 3 mov vs Tiger 35 str 2 mov thing. I did some peeking in the world builder and Germany's tank strengths are 30/35/35 (the highest starting point) and the only one close is the Republic and People's Republic of China which is 25/30/35. Also I noticed "modern armour" is 35 str as well, so it made me wonder if it might be off some how.

One other question I have regards the inability I have experienced to upgrade armoured units to later models: I can't upgrade old tanks, although I haven't had problems upgrading other land, air or sea units. Was this an intentional thing to allow us flexibility in producing armoured units or an oversight? The reason I ask is I remember seeing some discussion in other forums/threads about producing lighter tanks to get more mobility/better breakthroughs instead of always using the latest and heaviest.

That's exactly right. I took away the ability to upgrade tanks. A lot of people requested being able to produce older tanks.

This mod have italian language?

The older parts of the mod (ie: the parts that originally shipped with BtS) were translated by Firaxis, but since then any new text is only in English. I invite anyone to do local translations. I will include them. :)

I still cant play this mod. I quess its just too big for my computer. Allways freezes when loading scenario. Too bad that i cant play the first version which came with bts ether now :S of course i could uninstall the game with patches and then re-install..

do you have the 3.13 patch? that might help:goodjob:

it worked for me

Yes, 3.13... And I am not loading an old game, it is a game started in the new AOP.

Civ Version: 313
Save Version: 301
Build Version: 3.0.0.1 (81539)
Build Date: Fri. Sep 21 14:16:18 2007
Build: FINAL RELEASE

3.13 here also... I even played an entire american campaign without many hiccups (think there was one period I did crash, but managed to get around it somehow). My problems began when I started playing as Germany.

also using 3.13

Starting a new game was fine, but loading any saves or even autosaves and attempting to load them failed.

In loading save files, the description text for Finland is not properly loaded.

I'm using 3.13 too. My game was a started as the Germans in '36.

I've not tried other nationalities yet.

I wonder if artillery are supposed to be such hellacious defenders? My tanks attacking a city with 99.9% odds repeatedly get slaughtered by the opposing artillery with their automatic and repeated defense attacks.

Yeah i have 3.13. Its probably just to big mod for my comp.

I wonder if artillery are supposed to be such hellacious defenders? My tanks attacking a city with 99.9% odds repeatedly get slaughtered by the opposing artillery with their automatic and repeated defense attacks.

Interesting, haven't had a chance to play yet but from a realism POV this sounds good. I think even if we've forgotten the lessons of WWII about armour vulnerability in urban areas then more recent events should have reminded us of them. Still I don't know that the stupid AI can use armour effectively if it needs to try and use them in open (non city) engagements.

Dan

I may be the only one having trouble like this but I find the game crashing between turns on separate dates should I reinstall? and what should I reinstall both BTS and the Addon pack 2? :king: boxNJ also have 3.13 installed

Hi everyone,

first of all, thanks for the new rtw2, I like the smaller countries, its more like in history. Its true, the Tiger Tank must be stronger than the middle one, and why it takes same rounds to make the light and the middle ? Btw: There was a tank-hunter tank in ww2, named "Panther", it was a nice machine, many other tanks learned not to meet that beast :)

I started to play Germany and crashed after reloading saved games today, regardless of automatic saved games or any other manually saved game. I started the scenario in rtw2 yesterday and saved it.

Its the Hitler 1936 "free game scenario" and I used the world-builder option (*shame on me*, I only wanted a few more fighters), but i think thats not the reason cause I played about 4 houres without any trouble.

On my XP machine with sp2 the error message told me something about "msvcp71.dll". Thats a file in the civ4 folder. I turned the game on my vista laptop and can play after reloading, but another error message there told me something like "kann speicherdaten nicht komprimieren" (cannot compress memory data, sorry for my bad translation).

I tried to save it today and checked the folder, the saved game is about 4350 bytes instead of normally 950k from yesterday !!! (I was in the early 1938).

Well, Im no software expert, but maybe something happened in the game yesterday with memory management while saving it, I hope you will fix that and that I dont have to restart my scenario again, Im well on the run with germany until now :P

Greetings from Berlin, Germany

Thommel, the problem you have with loading saves of rtw2 is common.

To my knowledge, it will happen in any case of continuing a save of a game. You can start a game and play as long as you want, but continuing is impossible.

Still waiting for confirmation from Dale as to the cause or a fix. I'd like to know if anyone is able to load and play saves from rtw2 properly but as far as I know, everyone is seeing this problem.

This version is a fantastic upgrade. Now if we can just work with saves...

I am working on a fix. Sorry for the delay but RL is kicking in a bit these last few weeks. :)

The American GI did not wear flight jackets or wear jodpurs :crazyeye: as all seem to do frankly that scares me. How about more diversity in the GI uniform and adding some African uniforms for the British Tommies , the Jerry Africa Corps and the Italian soldier:king: boxNJ

lol i think its hilarious that the American Infantry are chinese :D

I've got no problems loading or saving games, however I get an instant crash when using marines to assault or defend (London).

My game is up-to-date, playing as Germany 1939 (Hitler) open play.

[edit]

seems it was just a coincidence with the marines, now it always crashes on reload :-(

lol i think its hilarious that the American Infantry are chinese :D What is this All Chinese womens band? Who make very fine music I must add.:king::clap: :[offtopic]

Hi Dale,

accordingly to my first post I found some interesting links for german tanks for you to get "inspiration" :)

Unfortunately they are in german language:

about anti-tank "Panther" http://www.panzerplatte.de/Jagd4.html

about Tiger and other: http://www.panzerplatte.de/

The first Tiger came up in about 1942, and a second version 1944-1945. First Tiger was stronger than the middle Tank IV.

With best regards, Thommel

I'm just curious, is there any way to improve the AI in this game? This was in the older versions before I gave up on this mod (I'm gonna try again with the new AOP) but the AI seemed inherently incapable of any kind of effective strategy. While playing as the Allies, it was far too easy to keep Germany from capturing France. Often there was one city in southeastern Poland that would go unoccupied by either Germany or the USSR for about a year. The Japanese were meek in the Pacific. This seemed to be true whether I was involved or not... France didn't necessarily fall even if I was the USA... I'll bump the difficulty way up, I guess, but if the AI is as bad as I remember it being, all the amazing work in this mod is going to waste, IMO.

That all being said, this is a very impressive mod, and you deserve the highest praise from all the thousands of people that have played this... I just remember being disappointed by the AI.

With all the discussion about tanks, I thought I'd add a bit more to the topic (and not just heavy should be more pwoerful than medium).

Yes, tanks should get chewed up attacking cities. Maybe start them with a "buttoned up" demotion of -25% city attack. Later in the war some tanks were outfitted with a head-set/phone at the rear to make it easier for infantry to talk to the tank commander without the cmdr unbuttoning.

There was a huge, huge difference in tank designs between the various civs during the war. Early on the Germans had wonderful designs but were overmatched by the T34 until the PzIV was upgunned to a long barrel 75.

The later Pz V Panther had only ~6000 units made (and just 1300 Tigers). In comparison the US made 45,000 Sherman tanks!! Other late-war German tanks and tank destroyers like the King Tiger, JagdPanther and JagdTiger were only made in the 100's of units.

So it would be ok to model the Heavy Tank as a Tiger if the cost to make it for the Germans was 2 or 3x the cost of the Medium Tank. The Allies heavy tank would be the Pershing which had about 2200 units made. Note that the US cost to make a Pershing should be about the same as the Sherman.

The clear advantage the US had in armor was in the producibility and maintainability of their tanks which arose from the auto industry.

Its no wonder that US tanks were designed by GM and German tanks by Porsche!

Back to Civ, could German tanks break down and fail to attack on a turn like air and sea units that "miss their target"?

Great Mod!

It's great to talk about tanks in the historical sense. All the production numbers, and how they matched up against each other is great.

But the bottom line is, tanks have been balanced for gameplay, not history. Every change to tanks has been simply for game balance.

Sorry if this makes you historical anal-retentive folks squirm. ;)

Just continuing with the histoical anal retentiveness, is there any particular why we still start off the game with light tanks and after we research light tanks we are allowed to build mediums? ;)

Dan

Thommel, the problem you have with loading saves of rtw2 is common.

To my knowledge, it will happen in any case of continuing a save of a game. You can start a game and play as long as you want, but continuing is impossible.

Still waiting for confirmation from Dale as to the cause or a fix. I'd like to know if anyone is able to load and play saves from rtw2 properly but as far as I know, everyone is seeing this problem.

This version is a fantastic upgrade. Now if we can just work with saves...

I've found a workaround that lets you continue from a rtw2 save.

First load the mod and start a new scenario (I used the same parameters as the saved game), then from this new game load your old save and it seems to work. Takes a lot longer to get back into the game, but you only need to do it once a session.

HTH

Artillery is way too overpowered with the second Add-on. Each artillery gets to fire at any attacking unit, every time. If the AI places 6 or more arty pieces in a tile, no land unit can get through.

And since artillery is now immune to collateral damage from other artillery units, the only way to remove them is with massive bomber runs. I lost 15 tanks, 30 infantry as Germany trying to take Krakow with the Poles having 8 arty units defending the city and 3 light tanks.

Each time, the unit gets obliterated before even getting to attack the defending unit. Not to mention that if your unit attacks from your stack, the defending artillery gets to damage all of your units waiting to attack.

Your own artillery does get to fire on the defending stack but its pointless since artillery cannot cause collateral damage on the defending arty.

Are you attacking as a stack or as individual units?

I first attacked with the stack. I then noticed that units that had not attacked yet were already damaged. I then tried just having all my artillery grouped with one attacking unit to see if that helped. The only thing my artillery did was to damage all non-artillery defenders. My sole attacking unit was killed before getting a chance to damage the defending unit.

Infantry, tanks, artillery, all land base units had no success getting through the defenders artillery barrage. The only way I could damage the artillery was to call in massive bombing runs.

I must be missing some tactical change that was implemented from Add-on pack 1 to 2.

I first attacked with the stack. I then noticed that units that had not attacked yet were already damaged. I then tried just having all my artillery grouped with one attacking unit to see if that helped. The only thing my artillery did was to damage all non-artillery defenders. My sole attacking unit was killed before getting a chance to damage the defending unit.

Infantry, tanks, artillery, all land base units had no success getting through the defenders artillery barrage. The only way I could damage the artillery was to call in massive bombing runs.

I must be missing some tactical change that was implemented from Add-on pack 1 to 2.

Same problem with me :(

If i use only one unit at a time the battlefield penalty is preventing other units to close and attack !

Thats why I turned this feature off.

Thanks Dale for this possibility.

I'm sure that smbd can argue with me but I'm just expressing opinion without "to be continued" :)

It's great to talk about tanks in the historical sense. All the production numbers, and how they matched up against each other is great.

But the bottom line is, tanks have been balanced for gameplay, not history. Every change to tanks has been simply for game balance.

Sorry if this makes you historical anal-retentive folks squirm. ;)

I haven't downloaded the second add on pack, and won't until the save game bug is fixed, but one thing that bothered me about the first add on pack was that PZKW IV tanks are upgraded to "Tigers." Both versions of the Tiger tank never had a unit larger than a brigade, and usually operated in battalion formations. The upgrade should have been called a PZKW V (Panther).

I really loved the mod, but I got my butt handed to me in a PBEM game with me as the Brits and my opponent as Germany.

The AI is so frustrating. Norway decided to invade France after Germany invaded, and when Germany invaded the USSR the Soviets decided it was more important to invade Finland than to defend their cities.

My opponent didn't have any better luck with Italy. Instead of defending their territory in North Africa they decided to invade Canada.

Some comments and observations:

1) The interception range is much to large. Fighters in France shouldn't have been able to intercept my bombers attacking the idiot Italian fleet off of Ireland.

2) Battleships are too cheap to build. Virtually every battleship built in WW2 had its keel laid before the war. My German PBEM opponent was able to build a larger fleet than I had as Britain while still having a massive army and air force.

3) You shouldn't be able to airlift units into an ally's city; my PBEM opponent was able to airlift 20 units into North Africa in one turn when I was about to capture Tripoli. No country involved in WW2 had the capability to airlift whole units into combat, with the exception of a few light infantry and parachute units.

4) The unhealthiness of my cities about drove me crazy. You should be able to build some improvements to counter that.

5) the USSR has no depth. There are no cities or industry in the Urals. My opponent was able to take Moscow with ease before the winter hit.

Just my two cents worth... :)

I haven't downloaded the second add on pack, and won't until the save game bug is fixed, but one thing that bothered me about the first add on pack was that PZKW IV tanks are upgraded to "Tigers." Both versions of the Tiger tank never had a unit larger than a brigade, and usually operated in battalion formations. The upgrade should have been called a PZKW V (Panther).

I really loved the mod, but I got my butt handed to me in a PBEM game with me as the Brits and my opponent as Germany.

The AI is so frustrating. Norway decided to invade France after Germany invaded, and when Germany invaded the USSR the Soviets decided it was more important to invade Finland than to defend their cities.

My opponent didn't have any better luck with Italy. Instead of defending their territory in North Africa they decided to invade Canada.

Some comments and observations:

1) The interception range is much to large. Fighters in France shouldn't have been able to intercept my bombers attacking the idiot Italian fleet off of Ireland.

2) Battleships are too cheap to build. Virtually every battleship built in WW2 had its keel laid before the war. My German PBEM opponent was able to build a larger fleet than I had as Britain while still having a massive army and air force.

3) You shouldn't be able to airlift units into an ally's city; my PBEM opponent was able to airlift 20 units into North Africa in one turn when I was about to capture Tripoli. No country involved in WW2 had the capability to airlift whole units into combat, with the exception of a few light infantry and parachute units.

4) The unhealthiness of my cities about drove me crazy. You should be able to build some improvements to counter that.

5) the USSR has no depth. There are no cities or industry in the Urals. My opponent was able to take Moscow with ease before the winter hit.

Just my two cents worth... :)

I want to beat Dale to this post by saying 'Download the new Add-on Pack.' :)

But so you know, the new add on pack adds (but not limited to):

*Cities start much more populous
*There are more countries in the game
*PanzerKampfWagon IV (German tanks have such lovely names) no longer upgrades to the Tiger
==In fact most Tanks>Light tanks>Heavy tanks no longer have that upgrade.
*The AI is really Civilizations' fault, Road to War uses the core AI to play. Besides it IS Artificial Intelligence. No match for your PBEM opponent ;)
*The Winter starts earlier and lasts longer, to the dismay of an invasion force into Russia. Moscow wont be easy to take.
*Unit prices have increased too.

You forgot to add that BB's are more expensive and cities suffer a LOT less unhappiness/polution. ;)

RtW AOP2 has been downloaded 20,000+ times in the first half a month.

Thanks everyone. :)

I want to beat Dale to this post by saying 'Download the new Add-on Pack.' :)

But so you know, the new add on pack adds (but not limited to):

*Cities start much more populous
*There are more countries in the game
*PanzerKampfWagon IV (German tanks have such lovely names) no longer upgrades to the Tiger
==In fact most Tanks>Light tanks>Heavy tanks no longer have that upgrade.
*The AI is really Civilizations' fault, Road to War uses the core AI to play. Besides it IS Artificial Intelligence. No match for your PBEM opponent ;)
*The Winter starts earlier and lasts longer, to the dismay of an invasion force into Russia. Moscow wont be easy to take.
*Unit prices have increased too.

I'm glad that cities start with more people. It was a bit strange in the Pacific that Iwo Jima and Tokyo both started with the same population. :)

More countries sounds interesting...

PanzerKampfWagon roughly translates into "armored battle wagon." The Germans like long words. :) I'm glad that PZKW IVs don't upgrade into Tigers anymore. But tigers are "sexy." I saw a liscense plate where I live in VA that read "PZKWTGR." But hey, even Paradox's Hearts of Iron allowed upgrades to Tigers in its first incarnations.

I definately don't blame Dale for the AI. :) But I still doubt that Germany can be beaten by the AI. They just won't work together well enough.

Unit price increase and a longer winter (is it like a NHL "winter?" :) ) will at least give the Soviets a chance.

And I will get the new add-on pack as soon as the save game bug is fixed. I can't play in one sitting!

You forgot to add that BB's are more expensive and cities suffer a LOT less unhappiness/polution. ;)

That is great to know! The Kriegsmarine should never be able to equal the Royal Navy in size!

Is there any point to going above the mark IV? It has the same strength as the tiger and is faster? Both are 35 strength and the mark IV is speed 3. Modern armor doesn't even get the +10 % strength.

Firstly

Dale - wow. This is simply amazing to play.

My only gripe - Artillery defending cities - Dude, 12 Panzer IV's should be able to take Bucharest, especially Vetted-up from combat taking Budapest first, except the AI built 3 Artillery pieces, three mind you, and they took down the entire stack.

I took Chisenau, two Artillery defending, with 8 Panzer IV's reducing to 2, after hammering the city first with 6 Stuka's and 4 Me-109's!

My point is, this is (no offense) Romania - not Russia, America or England. One artillery, one Tank, IMHO!

Thanks for an amazing Mod, all the same!

I've found the best way to deal with fortified city artillery is to bring in my own artillery to barrage from afar, and to use bombers to hit them from the air. When they've been battered down a bit I then use my infantry to take them out. But I never try to take a city with full strength arty.

Just like happened in real life. Remember the Blitzkrieg tactic. Tanks and air to force through a breach to surround, with artillery and infantry to mop up the surrounded troops. I have had a lot of success using this tactic. Whilst the forward cities are defended to the hilt, strike hard through the frontlines and blitz the cities behind.

I've found the best way to deal with fortified city artillery is to bring in my own artillery to barrage from afar, and to use bombers to hit them from the air. When they've been battered down a bit I then use my infantry to take them out. But I never try to take a city with full strength arty.

The problem is the that no matter how much you damage the arty in the city with bombers, they still cause the same amount of collateral damage to the attacking units because of their first strike barrage.

Maybe this idea could be reduced to only one arty firing at each attacking unit. And the collateral damage limited to only that unit, rather than affecting the entire attacking stack.

Just like happened in real life. Remember the Blitzkrieg tactic. Tanks and air to force through a breach to surround, with artillery and infantry to mop up the surrounded troops. I have had a lot of success using this tactic. Whilst the forward cities are defended to the hilt, strike hard through the frontlines and blitz the cities behind.

A line of supply would help make this a viable tactic. If a city is surrounded for x amount of turns, then the units start to starve. Might give paratroopers more of an active role is attacking a remote city. But you are still stuck attacking the fortified arty in the city.

I am looking forward to play as England. Now, one has to depend on Canada to send planes which can no longer be produced by Churchill. This will really cut it to the bone for thr R.A.F. and force their forces be kept in defense of the island. Good show Dale. :king:

Is there any point to going above the mark IV? It has the same strength as the tiger and is faster? Both are 35 strength and the mark IV is speed 3. Modern armor doesn't even get the +10 % strength.

No comment on this yet? This issue made me lose interest in this mod because it makes tech pointless. I can get to tigers and fw190s before Poland (a different problem) just by building all my labs and making the one scientist specialist in most city's. Why is the strength capped at 35?

No comment on this yet? This issue made me lose interest in this mod because it makes tech pointless. I can get to tigers and fw190s before Poland (a different problem) just by building all my labs and making the one scientist specialist in most city's. Why is the strength capped at 35?

I assume you have been playing the 1936 scenario then? Try one of the later ones, I personally find that the 1938 scens are pretty good as far as tech/time advancement.

Wrt to the cap of 35. I think that is because thats the strength that Dale has given to the modern tanks. Perhaps he was trying for a minimum impact change by leaving that in place.

Going purely against the concept of minimum impact changes I wonder if the flanking attack-mod might be used to redress some uneveness that seems to be appearing vis a vis defending artillery. Giving armour the flanking ability might help. Might actully be useful to give to submarines too actually. Might have to try that myself.

Dan

To be totally honest, it would be closer to the truth if someone said, "I bet the lazy bastard forgot to change modern tanks to 40!" ;)

To be totally honest, it would be closer to the truth if someone said, "I bet the lazy bastard forgot to change modern tanks to 40!"

Now that is funny!

Are there people who are playing the add-on in multiplayer.

I'm very curious how is the balance then.

If somebody wants to play a pitboss have me in mind

Thanks for the reply. I'm sure creating this was a lot of work and I do appreciate what you have made Dale. Thanks you.

I can't load saved games? Has anyone else seen this?

Sweet! Yugoslavia and Greece are IN!

Quick Question: Does the US appear in the map (i.e do they have land) or do they start with Python?

Then again, i doubt it matters, this mod still rocks.

@wotan321:
I think this problems been addressed, but try this:
1) Load mod, load scenario which you want to play (not save game, just same map)
2) Hit Ctrl-L, then choose the save game

It'll take a lot longer, but it may work.

Critical error! Turn between 2nd fortnight January and 1st fortnight February 1938.

It could be my Custom Assets, but they haven't changed since I started the game some week ago. I was able to load the save and play through from November (6 turns) before the game collapsed and Microsoft gave me the kind 'Internal error, please submit'.

I'll try replaying without my custom assets, but I don't that would work either since I started playing with them installed.

--

Yes, to provide more detail.... I did get it to load a saved game this time, but got a CTD on the next turn. The file Microsoft says is the culprit is cvgamecoredll.dll.


From the PythonErr.log

File "CvWBDesc", line 467, in write

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function writeDesc failed, module CvWBInterface

Any recommendations?

Try loading an auto save. I got a crash on loading and loaded an autosave instead. worked fine.

I can't load saved games? Has anyone else seen this?

See pages 2 and 3 of this thread.

Try loading an auto save. I got a crash on loading and loaded an autosave instead. worked fine.

Really? I had no better luck with an autosave. Is anyone else able to use this workaround? The true test, I find, is ending a turn. If it doesn't crash before that point, it will then.

Hopefully the crack research team working on this problem is making progress in identifying the cause...

From the PythonErr.log

File "CvWBDesc", line 467, in write

RuntimeError: unidentifiable C++ exception
ERR: Python function writeDesc failed, module CvWBInterface


Seems to me that the system has a problem writing the names of Civs when loading from a save. For my saves, it was Poland but others have had variations. What is known about function writeDesc?

WAR!

Ive finally got upto September '39. I can see what all the other fanatics are typing about the artillery. The Combat mod seams totally flawed. I met a nice 22 Polish artillery stack in Krakow. all 22 artillery get to fire in defense when I send an infantry unit to attack. every unit in the tile takes damage, and theres so many red text messages about how much damage the units took, my infantry just vanishes. It doesnt bother with combat, as all the artillery in defense bombarded it to 0hp.

What am I supposed to do? Put every attack unit in a stack at berlin, and send a unit one at a time to the front line?

Another thing is the defending artillery gets to make a battlefield under my attacking units. I cannot for all the love of mobilized warfare blitzkrieg through a country becuase movement 3 Pz IVs cannot pass through battlefields.

A fix for the artillery should be a damage cap at 50% and prevent them from capturing cities, remove their combat changes against other units and give all the regular infantry units more AI strategies, like 'AI defend city' 'AI attack city' 'AI Attack'. And maybe represent this 'artillery strikes first' with a free Drill 1 promotion.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8789/combatlossesnk4.jpg

^ I never captured the city.

It is the shock value that wins the day in Blitzkrieg you have to attack with the kitchen sink to win the city and control your own losses and then see why Poland lost the war so fast. I have played poland and was building a military to defend against Germany and Russia as I knew that attack was coming, no matter how built up my forces were the A1 would put in a superior force with the same results this is true in the Accurate histoical mode. boxNJ :king:

I have had a thought for possible future RTW. When one attacks an enemy port city you actually acquire their naval vessels. An interesting twist anyone? boxNJ :king:

Could be quite useful, althought AI has a bad habit of stacking their fleets to ports and leaving those cities defendless. A bit too easy?
Then again, if a chance of capturing could be placed?

CTD at the end of this turn, with Turkey. I can't play on :-( 176338

First off, let me say great mod. I played Germans in the 1939 scenario and had a blast.

Figured I'd try a Pacific scenario next. I went with the underdog, China 1936. Noble difficulty. I expected huge problems with Communists and I knew Japan would DoW me shortly. I couldn't wait to get started. I play all games with Accurate Historical Events.

Playing China was far too easy. Unit balance is the main issue.

Problem 1: Slaughtered the Communists on turn 1. They need to be reinforced somehow. Full city defense upgrades for their infantry? An artillery or two in the city to help with defense? Special elite guerilla units?

Problem 2: Massacred Japan when they DoW in July 1937. I actually began invading them instead. By 1937 I had so much industrial output it was sick. Unit balance was also a huge factor. Japanese infantry strengths are 5/10/15, Chinese infantry strength is a whopping 15/20/25! That's even stronger than American infantry at 12/17/22. Also, Chinese fighters at 17/22/27 are stronger than thee Japanese at 15/20/25. Isn't Japan one of the finest aviation forces in the world at that time and their planes some of the best?

Granted, Japan wasn't known for tanks, but at 15/20/25, their tanks are no match for the Chinese at 25/30/35! Were Chinese tanks better than American ones? (22/27/32) The American medium tank is the M4 Sherman at 27 strength. The Chinese heavy is also the M4 Sherman but with 35 strength. Perhaps Chinese tanks should be 15/20/27.

Since 1936 was so easy, I tried China in 1941 instead. Half my territory gone, no industry. Only infantry and cavalry to start with. Japan has fighters and bombers aplenty and full control of the seas. Quite a few tanks too. But the strength of my infantry troops tipped the balance again. At strength 20 vs. strength 10, I slaughtered the Japanese infantry they sent at me, then took Siam, Vietnam, and was invading Nanchang by turn 6. Even the communists were taking some cities back. Siam had all of two infantry defending their country. Da Nang was devoid of defenses, and Hanoi and Saigon had only 1 infantry each.

I have had a thought for possible future RTW. When one attacks an enemy port city you actually acquire their naval vessels. An interesting twist anyone? boxNJ :king:

Don't forget the Germans did it to the French, and what'd the French do? They scuttled their ships. :)

WAR!

Ive finally got upto September '39. I can see what all the other fanatics are typing about the artillery. The Combat mod seams totally flawed. I met a nice 22 Polish artillery stack in Krakow. all 22 artillery get to fire in defense when I send an infantry unit to attack. every unit in the tile takes damage, and theres so many red text messages about how much damage the units took, my infantry just vanishes. It doesnt bother with combat, as all the artillery in defense bombarded it to 0hp.

What am I supposed to do? Put every attack unit in a stack at berlin, and send a unit one at a time to the front line?

Another thing is the defending artillery gets to make a battlefield under my attacking units. I cannot for all the love of mobilized warfare blitzkrieg through a country becuase movement 3 Pz IVs cannot pass through battlefields.

A fix for the artillery should be a damage cap at 50% and prevent them from capturing cities, remove their combat changes against other units and give all the regular infantry units more AI strategies, like 'AI defend city' 'AI attack city' 'AI Attack'. And maybe represent this 'artillery strikes first' with a free Drill 1 promotion.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8789/combatlossesnk4.jpg

^ I never captured the city.

I'm not sure why, but I never had any problems taking cities defended by artillery. Usually I bomb the crap out of them first with Stukas. Then when I'm ready for the assault, I send my own artillery to bombard them. Then I send a large stack of infantry (enough to take the city in one assault) and attack from the same square my artillery are in. I noticed that sometimes my artillery get a few shots off too if I do this. Yes, my infantry get pounded to shreds, but I come out on top and it seems reasonable to me that this is what would happen if I sent 50 infantry divisions against a position fortified by 20 artillery brigades.

I didn't really test it, but is there a difference attacking as a large stack vs. attacking as individual units? I was using large stacks simply because it was easier to do, not because I knew there was some kind of advantage. If there is, you may need to group up a fairly large force to take that city. And that's after softening them up with Stukas and your own artillery.

I just noticed Russian infantry are also 15/20/25. Weren't they some of the most ill equipped infantry of the war? The Japanese infantry at 5/10/15 seriously need a boost! They gave American troops a good run in the Pacific, but are no match for US troops at 12/17/22.

Maybe Russian infantry should be weaker but cheaper to build to reflect that there were tons of them, a la Enemy at the Gates. Chinese infantry too. Say, 7/12/17 or 10/15/20.

I didn't really test it, but is there a difference attacking as a large stack vs. attacking as individual units? I was using large stacks simply because it was easier to do, not because I knew there was some kind of advantage. If there is, you may need to group up a fairly large force to take that city. And that's after softening them up with Stukas and your own artillery

You may have noticed that artillery is immune to collateral damage from siege weapons in Add-on 2. So your artillery barrage only damages non-siege units.

Only way to damage them is in aerial bombardments or direct assault, if you can get through.

Yes, my infantry get pounded to shreds, but I come out on top and it seems reasonable to me that this is what would happen if I sent 50 infantry divisions against a position fortified by 20 artillery brigades

This would be historically accurate if you were able to send all 50 divisions in at once, not one at a time. Its like all 20 arty pieces being able to concentrate their fire at each division everytime.

Besides, having to lose that many units to take 1 city would make for a very long game. One in which Germany can ill afford to play when they will have so many enemies.

I just installed SP3 dont know if there will be any affect on gameplay. boxNJ:king:

wtf is SP3?

also anyone interested in a multiplayer game?

I just noticed Russian infantry are also 15/20/25. Weren't they some of the most ill equipped infantry of the war? The Japanese infantry at 5/10/15 seriously need a boost! They gave American troops a good run in the Pacific, but are no match for US troops at 12/17/22.

Maybe Russian infantry should be weaker but cheaper to build to reflect that there were tons of them, a la Enemy at the Gates. Chinese infantry too. Say, 7/12/17 or 10/15/20.

Well Dale has bumped up the strength of a lot of the national infantry units. He did a similar thing with alot of the armour units but forgot to increase the strength of modern tank. Perhaps the Japanese infantry were also overlooked.

Dan

wtf is SP3?

also anyone interested in a multiplayer game?

Service Pack 3 for XP.

Dan

Could be quite useful, althought AI has a bad habit of stacking their fleets to ports and leaving those cities defendless. A bit too easy?
Then again, if a chance of capturing could be placed?
Or the German fleet kept at Scapa Flow Scotland after WWI boxNJ :king:

All of my saves now crash and I installed SP3 anyone else having this trouble?

do u have the patch 3.13? that is my only suggestion

wtf is SP3?

also anyone interested in a multiplayer game?

Ill play you sometime over the weekend...

Add my MSN:

melzrs@hotmail.com

cool that means we have 3 ppl (including myself)

Where is the thread :spear::run:

did I misuderstand or is there spose to be a full world map.(Is there a full world WWII map?)

You forgot to add that BB's are more expensive and cities suffer a LOT less unhappiness/polution. ;)

Carriers only cost 400 and BBs 500. Thats less than an armour unit at 720. Takes my Baltic cities just 4-8 turns (ie 2-4months) to build a BB. In my own mod where I've added addtional tanks classes my Advanced Medium's and Heavy's which cost 970 and 1200 respectively are only taking 4-10 turns on average in my core German cities. BBs are gonna get jacked up to 2000 methinks. This is in the 1938 Europe Scenario.

Dan

did I misuderstand or is there spose to be a full world map.(Is there a full world WWII map?)

I asked Dale that question it will come out when the next BTS update comes out. I then asked him if all the allies and all the axis powers could communicate and he said they could and then I asked would I have to upgrade my cpu and he said "probably" with a laugh :confused:. :crazyeye: :king: boxNJ

thanks!!!!!

I'm playing as the Germans 1938 open play scenario. This allows a really quick annihilation of Poland, the Low Countries, Balkans and France. These countries can't build the big stacks of death.

However, while trying to wipe out the French North African colonies in 1940 I was agressively spying and wrecking havoc with Stalin's factories. He declared war and visited me with a stack of 27 T-34's and 33 infantry plus some artillery. :mad:

I had about 40 Ju-88's and 30 FW 190s and it took about 4 turns of incessant pounding to knock all the tanks down to 3 or 4 pts just to get to the artillery.

It helps to not use 1 stack to attack an enemy stack. You should hit-run instead. I found I was able to attack from and empty square with 1 tank and destroy 1 of his (taking about 80-90% damage). Then retreat my tank so the next time I attack the oppportunity fire won't kill it. Or if unable to retreat, attack from a different empty square.

Of course while I was occupied in the East both Spain and Italy attacked me! :sad: Hopefully Stalin will sue for piece after loosing those units and I can airlift my guys to the West.

I think one improvement would be for the artillery to limit its damage when defending a stack - max 85% damage would be good.

Yeah they all use that mentality and strategic tactic got to keep forces to your east or declare war on a force that even comes close. boxNJ :king:I'm playing as the Germans 1938 open play scenario. This allows a really quick annihilation of Poland, the Low Countries, Balkans and France. These countries can't build the big stacks of death.

However, while trying to wipe out the French North African colonies in 1940 I was agressively spying and wrecking havoc with Stalin's factories. He declared war and visited me with a stack of 27 T-34's and 33 infantry plus some artillery. :mad:

I had about 40 Ju-88's and 30 FW 190s and it took about 4 turns of incessant pounding to knock all the tanks down to 3 or 4 pts just to get to the artillery.

It helps to not use 1 stack to attack an enemy stack. You should hit-run instead. I found I was able to attack from and empty square with 1 tank and destroy 1 of his (taking about 80-90% damage). Then retreat my tank so the next time I attack the oppportunity fire won't kill it. Or if unable to retreat, attack from a different empty square.

Of course while I was occupied in the East both Spain and Italy attacked me! :sad: Hopefully Stalin will sue for piece after loosing those units and I can airlift my guys to the West.

I think one improvement would be for the artillery to limit its damage when defending a stack - max 85% damage would be good.

Hey guys, just DLing add on 2. I had addon 1 on here for a while. At one point, I started having troubles with not being able to load GOTM files from the 1BC site; I'd get a "This file is protected against changes to your Mod folder" or something. Not sure if it was the RTW addon or something else. Anyone have a clue if replacing the original RTW folder with the addon one could cause this type of problem in a file with Lock Modified Assets or whatever it is turned on?

Are you going to fix the artillery thing? I was playing Germany and I got conquered by Poland :( Their artillery is too strong, they wiped my army out :(

How do you lose to Poland? Did you not use any artillery at all lol?

DoubleRD:

Did you directly attack their entrenched artillery? Madness!

You need to use combined arms! You know, things called artillery, planes and ships.

Tanks alone will guarentee a loss in RtW.

:lol:

Of course I know what I am doing. I can beat regular games on chieftan 3 out of 4 times. I even beat the game on warlord once. That artillery is too strong. The great union general McClellan could not break those Polish lines. They are just too powerful :( Then I tried to send my tanks against the Maginot fortifications, I sent my whole army, and they got killed :(

:cry: Aside from the artillery, can you guys add a few new songs in. The first song with the drums is very nice, but after that the music gets so terribly sad :cry: After about the first 20 minutes of gaming I am crying because of the sad music. That modern music is very dreary. Does anyone else have this problem? Can we get a few more songs that will cheer things up a bit? :cool:

Of course I know what I am doing. I can beat regular games on chieftan 3 out of 4 times. I even beat the game on warlord once. That artillery is too strong. The great union general McClellan could not break those Polish lines. They are just too powerful

YOu either didn't have enough units, or you didn't invade quick enough (even on Diety it not that hard to take Poland)


Then I tried to send my tanks against the Maginot fortifications, I sent my whole army, and they got killed

50 strength plus other bonuses against at best 35 strength tanks, that is always going to end badly. Wait until May 1940 and bypass the line by going through Belgium and Holland or if you really want to, bombard the stuffing out of the line using arty and aircraft

Thank you, Dale. Your efforts are appreciated very much. :thanx:

Are you going to fix the artillery thing? I was playing Germany and I got conquered by Poland :( Their artillery is too strong, they wiped my army out :( It makes for a very Large POLAND a quick end to the War and the Polish did start the War. :) Poland, Poland uber alles! :crazyeye: :king: boxNJ

Dale, are you going to make artillery a little bit weaker? I've noticed that all one really has to do is stack a bunch of artillery and dare someone to attack. You would need a huge airforce to do it. All that person has to do is build some anti air guns and some fighters, no one will ever get through. Artillery is so powerful :(

America is a much better ally in this game. They were actually make a lot of amphibious assaults and sent a lot of troops. Even Canada tried. This was all in mid 1942. In the first mod before this one, they did nothing. THEY WOULD NOT HELP ME!

GREAT MOD! Wow, this is so much better than the vanilla or AO1 it is amazing!

I did not look in the Addon About but it looked like artillery and infantry can get "breakthrough" movement when an attack in their hex or an adjacent hex succeeds?

AWESOME!

Perhaps artillery should just be much more expensive, if another fix to balance them is not in the works? In basic terms, wasn't it a lot more expensive and time-consuming to create the big guns, supply them, protect them, and train people how to use them, than it was to draft infantrymen, give them rifles/ammo, and train them how to use those?

I've been previously critical of the artillery strength but I think I owe Dale an apology on that score. It seems most folks are playing the 1936 scenario and I myself have tended to play the 1938 one. In those scens the AI usually has plenty of time to build up its forces and given the generally poor strength of infantry artillery is the AI's unit of choice. However in the last week I've made a few starts on the 1939 scenario. Here everyone has to go with what the have at the start and the flow of the early stages of the war seems to be much more like that expected. So far I've only been able to get up to early 1941 because the scen is a bit much for my notebook and the save game problem means I can't resume. Still it does seem to indicate that Dale has chosen to set up the units etc to provide the best balance for the 1939 scenario. With such a difference between the various scenarios Dale has provided he is only really going to be able to find a sweet spot for one or two of them. Give the 1939 scens a go people.

Dan

I would second that Danrh. I'm playing the 1939 and arty seems about right. One solution would be a Tech that you have to research in the 1936 scenario which you cannot possibly get before about mid-to-late 1936 which reduces the cost of building artillery substantially, but which is a gimme tech in the 1939 scenario.

I keep getting CTDs with the attached .sav

Hit the red button to finish turn, and poof, CTD and the "Windows detected errors, would you like to send a note to Windows . . ." message window.

I turned down the graphics settings to Low and it is still happening.

My rig runs Civ4 fine, though huge maps with lots of stuff have caused intermittent crashes in the past. I can send my Dxdiag or whatever if that will help.

1939 is the scenario I play. I was playing as the Germans and Poland was beating me so bad, I wanted to beg them for mercy. Their artillery cut my defenses down to bits. Along with my tank attacks on the maginot line :( Artillery needs to be scaled down a bit.

1939 is the scenario I play. I was playing as the Germans and Poland was beating me so bad, I wanted to beg them for mercy. Their artillery cut my defenses down to bits. Along with my tank attacks on the maginot line :( Artillery needs to be scaled down a bit.

Are you playing historical or are you playing free form. Given that there are only 4 turns from 1939 scen start to the invasion of Poland I don't understand how you can be facing huge numbers of Polish arty, they don't seem to start out with them.

Dan

1939 is the scenario I play. <SNIP> Along with my tank attacks on the maginot line :( ...

George Santayana said "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it." OK so you didn't repeat it. You did exactly what all the best military minds in the Wehrmacht knew was stupid, and you want to use that as a reason to change the artillery in the mod? :lol:

The more I play, the more I realize that the artillery strength is tightly interwoven to all the other units. If arty is weakened a lot, then air units would be out of balance (in my games I use air power mostly to take out arty stacks).

"Fixing" this is not as simple as just making arty weaker. Its a re-balancing of everything.

Here are some of my ideas around weakening arty:

Change the values to make arty much weaker, but with a big bonus for reducing defensive entrenchment. This would make arty much less capable of individual attack or defense like Civ III style cannons.

Given their power in the current game they are too cheap to build. Or place a limit on the number of arty units available at 1 time. Or create an expensive arty factory.

The real wartime limitation on use of artillery was ammunition shortages. Massive bombardments needed weeks or months to stockpile ammo. Maybe allow arty to only have support fire every other turn (or less).

Only give anti-tank arty the bonus vs armour. A 155mm howitzer shouldn't really have a bonus against a tank.

Have a commando unit that can sniper the weakest unit from a stack. That way after aerial bombardment, you can snipe the arty out of the stack. Or these units could make arty "go to sleep" for some number of turns to model interfering with supply lines. Russian, Greek, Finnish and Solvakian partisans would be interesting national units of this type.

On this scale map, heavy arty should not have range 2, they should just start with better bonuses for taking out cities and extra collateral damage. It would also be interesting to make the heavier arty actually weaker for open combat (use bigger factors to get city walls down faster).

Even with all this, its an awesome mod!!

Are you playing historical or are you playing free form. Given that there are only 4 turns from 1939 scen start to the invasion of Poland I don't understand how you can be facing huge numbers of Polish arty, they don't seem to start out with them.

Dan

Alright quoting ones self is bad but it seems I should not not have been making any of my last few replies because I was not even really talking about AO2. I have made my own adjustments to RtW (expanded tanks, airborne tanks, arty, amphibious tanks along with a few strength adjustments) and when I copied these changes over from AO1 to AO2 I missed a couple of things, namely the additional civs. That's been mucking up things quite a bit it turns out. For some reason when I start a scenario half the units don't seem to load up for initial conditions. For example if I start the 1939 scen in standard AO2 the germans have 80 infantry, along with tanks, artillery and tank destroyers. At sea they have 14 cruisers, 6 destroyers and 10 subs. If I load up the RtW mod theres only 50 infantry, no arty, no tanks, no TD's and at sea I've only got 5 crusiers and 4 subs. Dunno whats going on (well I know why the tanks are missing since I've replaced the classes entirely but the other things are unchanged) but as you'd expect it really effects the game play with start conditions changed so much I was pretty much talking crap when replying to DoubleRD77's posts :blush:

Incidently have made sure I've updated all the file to AO2 standard I still get the same behaviour as above when I load the scenario normally but if I load from the wbsave file everything is there.

That out of the way, DoubleRD77 with the forces at you disposal, used in a concerted manner Poland is still pretty easily overwhelmed

Dan

ps if anyone is interested in trying having a play with my changes I'd welcome the feedback.

ps if anyone is interested in trying having a play with my changes I'd welcome the feedback.

I wouldn't mind :)

Only Gort can melt artillery known to you as (arty) Therefore the country that has Gort shall win! :nuke::salute: :king: boxNJ

anyone willing to help-
I am not very good with computers and cannot install the patch correctly.
i have two current problems.
1.I dont understand how to "unzip" the patch
2.do I delete the rtw folder and all contents or only the folder?
any answer will be much apprciated

I will do this backwards!

2) Remove the old RTW folder before extracting (don't delete incase it goes wrong) and put the new one in it's place

1) To put the new one in it's place, rIght click the folder (this for xp, not to sure with Vista) and click extract all, then you are given an option as to where you want the files, extract it in where the orginal RTW folder was.

Then play! :)

I will do this backwards!

2) Remove the old RTW folder before extracting (don't delete incase it goes wrong) and put the new one in it's place

1) To put the new one in it's place, rIght click the folder (this for xp, not to sure with Vista) and click extract all, then you are given an option as to where you want the files, extract it in where the orginal RTW folder was.

Then play! :)

thank u but i cant locate the old rtw folder anymore where should i look?

Normally it's in "my computer", then the drive you installed it on (usally C drive) then program files, then Fixarise (spelt wrong) games then Sids Meiers Civilzation 4 then "Beyond the Sword then "mods" and it should be there, if not, then just extract the new RTW folder straight into it and it should work :)

again to anyone willing to help-
i think i have AOP2 installed in the correct folder, but when i start up civilization there is no rtw sceniario(new or old). if anyone can give information it would be much appreciated.

I wouldn't mind :)

My apologies, I did try to PM this to Joe but apparently we can't put attachments on PMs.


Dan

Cheers :)

I will try and play it over the weekend and provide some feedback, if possible, though for the next two weeks i have exams, so update and thoughts might be few and far between but after that i will try and get a proper review done :)

again to anyone willing to help-
i think i have AOP2 installed in the correct folder, but when i start up civilization there is no rtw sceniario(new or old). if anyone can give information it would be much appreciated.

Are you running Mac or Windows? Are you running Vista or XP? Firefox or Internet Explorer? If anything but Windows, XP with IE I cannot be much help.

In XP, IE seems to by default DL things to the following directory

My Computer/"_sk8er's_ Documents"/My Received Files

I'd look in there to see if that is where the DL went to.

Note, the _sk8er's_ above will be whatever your name is entered in as when you log on to your machine (e.g., "Bob MacKenzie," "Uncle Jones," or whatever)

Now as to where the original RTW folder went to . . . Did you rename it or move the directory?

Do you know how to do screen caps? If so, do a screen cap of the following directories and post them

C:Program Files/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civ4/Beyond the Sword

and

C:Program Files/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civ4/Beyond the Sword/Mods

Anthropoid and J.Harker,
thnx for ur help i got the rtw folder up and running

Clean install of BTS 3.13 and RTW2, played fine from start until september 1939 when I get constant crashing.

Try to invade a city? Crash.
Try to end turn? Crash.
Try to load save? Crash.

Nice mod, but pretty disappointing with all the crashing making it unplayable.

Clean install of BTS 3.13 and RTW2, played fine from start until september 1939 when I get constant crashing.

Try to invade a city? Crash.
Try to end turn? Crash.
Try to load save? Crash.

Nice mod, but pretty disappointing with all the crashing making it unplayable.

Unfortunately your system is probably not up to the job. I get similar behaviour when I try to play on my laptop, one maybe two turns then a crash. But I played on my desktop last night four three hours without a single crash. Better graphics card, faster processor and more RAM all add up to better RtW experience :)

Dan

Hey Danrh,

I have got what I thought was a pretty solid rig, and although I get slowed down turn times on enormous huge maps, I have had very few CTDs with Civ4. However, I too started getting similar CTDs in about the same time frame. I wondered if maybe it was because I had made copious use of the line drawing and text in the Strategy map layer.

Windows XP Home Edition SP2 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+, MMX, 3DNow, ~1.8GHz 1024MBRAM DirectX 9.0c RADEON X300/X550 Series128.0 MB

Doesn't that look like a pretty solid rig eh?

Hey Danrh,

I have got what I thought was a pretty solid rig, and although I get slowed down turn times on enormous huge maps, I have had very few CTDs with Civ4. However, I too started getting similar CTDs in about the same time frame. I wondered if maybe it was because I had made copious use of the line drawing and text in the Strategy map layer.

Windows XP Home Edition SP2 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+, MMX, 3DNow, ~1.8GHz 1024MBRAM DirectX 9.0c RADEON X300/X550 Series128.0 MB

Doesn't that look like a pretty solid rig eh?

Certainly does, a little better than mine in fact. Dunno whats going on then. I do certainly get a good stable result compared to my laptop. I'm not familiar with the strategy layer map? EDIT actually having looked at it again my laptop has a 7300 Nvidia series card while my desktop has a 7600 series. From what I can see the 7300 is about equal to your Radeon card while the 7600 is quite a step up.

Dan

Clean install of BTS 3.13 and RTW2, played fine from start until september 1939 when I get constant crashing.

Try to invade a city? Crash.
Try to end turn? Crash.
Try to load save? Crash.

Nice mod, but pretty disappointing with all the crashing making it unplayable.

Provide the save game.
Thanks

Provide the save game.
Thanks

Hey Dale, did you see my save game on the previous page :)

Yeah, I'm going through all the saves in this thread. Some don't crash for me. Which leads me to believe this mod is a little too big for some rigs still. :)

Unfortunately your system is probably not up to the job. I get similar behaviour when I try to play on my laptop, one maybe two turns then a crash. But I played on my desktop last night four three hours without a single crash. Better graphics card, faster processor and more RAM all add up to better RtW experience :)

Dan

3.2 ghz P4 duo, 4gb ram, 2x 8800 gts 512 SLi... I dont think my computer is the problem. I'll post the save in a bit.

3.2 ghz P4 duo, 4gb ram, 2x 8800 gts 512 SLi... I dont think my computer is the problem. I'll post the save in a bit.

:worship::worship::worship:

I'll just . .. .. .. . up now then shall I.

Dan

3.2 ghz P4 duo, 4gb ram, 2x 8800 gts 512 SLi... .

Holy crap! 4gB of RAM!?! I didn't even think that was possible! :D

3.2 ghz P4 duo, 4gb ram, 2x 8800 gts 512 SLi

Half of that would be better than my computer :eek:

Here are a couple saves:

brom -> invading a city causes a crash about 7/10 times I attempt it
brom4 -> ending the turn here causes a crash during the computers moves

Dale,thnx alot for developing the new mod. it really adds to the game.

I was thnking of some additions to the game. if possible, i have no understanding of how difficult or time consuming making ajustments are.

Allowing italy and Germany to contribute troops to nationalist spain and Russia contributing to republican spainin the spanishcivilwar wud be addition though keeping the latter from capturing cities for themselves may be a problem.

The Arab revolt in the middle east in iraq would as well be an interesting addition.

being able to become nations like nationalist spain in '36 and arabia in 40-41 would also add to the game. using a late starting system similar to the rfc scenarios.

Other gameplay additions could include a event version including historic events but allowing nations to declare war or change civs, similar to open play.

Another idea could be expanding rtw into the first world war and/or turn of the 20th
century which could include the spanish american war and the italo-turkish war.

again i dont know anything about making new game mods and am sorry if any of these ideas are un helpful

Yeah, I'm going through all the saves in this thread. Some don't crash for me. Which leads me to believe this mod is a little too big for some rigs still. :)

so not all saves crash for you, but some do. I've been trumpeting one point over and over and haven't heard much from you about it: loading games from saves.

Is this an accepted bug? Is it only occuring in certain game options? Is it presumed to be a user system/rig issue? is there someone who can say that they can load saves from add-on pack 2?

And if there is a problem loading saves, how can you test the saves posted here?

sincerely, dazed n confuzed

Yes, there is a problem with save games. I have mentioned this once before (early on in the thread). However, a work around was found.

In regards to me loading the posted saves, most load some crash. How can I determine what is crashing certain games? Well, I have the code and run the save through a debug version and it tells me what file and line number of the code it is crashing on.

So yes, I know the cause of the crash. Fixing it, however, is a completely different story. The cause is that for some weird reason the game loses access to the Swedish leaders art files, specifically the flag, and this causes a crash. It also causes the name to disappear from the list to be replaced by "[]". But it does not result in a guarenteed crash. Only sometimes.

So now that you know the cause, care to help solve it? You have all the code and files with you.

The last time I played RTW, the AI kept razing the cities it conquered : the german AI razed all Poland !( losing much potential production I think) Has this strange behavior been changed in V2 ?

Dale thanks for all your work. I know it'll all get straightened out in time :) Patience is virtue.

I have been uber-procrastinating this summer, and if I want to get tenure in 5 years I have absolutely GOT to get some work done during June July-August. But I'll be lurking and if you need some one to test some changes or something just let me know.

Can someone please tell me how to do the "work around" to save games. I read there is a trick you can do. Can someone please lay it out on here in step by step directions? Also, do you think guys think that "Arty" after artillery would be a good name for a dog or cat?

Can someone please tell me how to do the "work around" to save games. I read there is a trick you can do. Can someone please lay it out on here in step by step directions? Also, do you think guys think that "Arty" after artillery would be a good name for a dog or cat?


I've had some success with two methods. The first is to start a new example of the scenario you've been playing with all the same settings etc. After its opened then try loading up your previously saved game.

The other method which I had PM'ed to me recently by BigBaldDaddy is to start your game from the WBS (World Builder Save) file, ie the Scenario file found in the public maps folder of your RtW mod. To load up a save game first start the scenario again from the WBS file and when it loads to the player selection screen "Go Back" and then load your save.

This second method is so far working well for me playing the 1939 scenario. I've got my fingers crossed it will also work when I finish some updates to my personal RtW variation.:please:

Hope this helps

Dan

Yes, there is a problem with save games. I have mentioned this once before (early on in the thread). However, a work around was found.

In regards to me loading the posted saves, most load some crash. How can I determine what is crashing certain games? Well, I have the code and run the save through a debug version and it tells me what file and line number of the code it is crashing on.

So yes, I know the cause of the crash. Fixing it, however, is a completely different story. The cause is that for some weird reason the game loses access to the Swedish leaders art files, specifically the flag, and this causes a crash. It also causes the name to disappear from the list to be replaced by "[]". But it does not result in a guarenteed crash. Only sometimes.

So now that you know the cause, care to help solve it? You have all the code and files with you.
Why not replace Sweden with a country that participated more in the war (just a suggestion) same with Turkey,:king:

...
The other method which I had PM'ed to me recently by BigBaldDaddy is to start your game from the WBS (World Builder Save) file, ie the Scenario file found in the public maps folder of your RtW mod. To load up a save game first start the scenario again from the WBS file and when it loads to the player selection screen "Go Back" and then load your save.

This second method is so far working well for me playing the 1939 scenario. I've got my fingers crossed it will also work when I finish some updates to my personal RtW variation.:please:

Hope this helps

Dan

This worked perfectly for me. Thks:goodjob:

Dale told me last week the add-on pack for BTS would be out this week some time has anyone heard anything? :king: boxNJ

Dale told me last week the add-on pack for BTS 317 would be out this week some time has anyone heard anything? :king: boxNJ

The save games load this way, unfortionatly the game crashes at the end of the turn. It is not fair, not fair at all! I just wanted to bring peace to the world. My armies were liberators. Its just not fair, I had almost liberated the entire world, I was going to be ruler of the world, then the game crashed! The crash would not end, NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR! :( :( :( :(

The save games load this way, unfortionatly the game crashes at the end of the turn. It is not fair, not fair at all! I just wanted to bring peace to the world. My armies were liberators. Its just not fair, I had almost liberated the entire world, I was going to be ruler of the world, then the game crashed! The crash would not end, NOT FAIR NOT FAIR NOT FAIR! :( :( :( :( Were you using the NEW patch BTS 317?
BoxNJ :king:

No, I was not.

This new patch 3.17 is horrible! The Road to War mod does not work at all now because of it. I HATE IT!. ITS NOT FAIR AT ALL! NOT FAIR! I hope Dale is on the phone right now with the makers of it telling them what he thinks of it. I am sure he will work night and day for a fix to this intolerable situation. This is the worst thing that has ever happened in my entire life! SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!!! :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

This new patch 3.17 is horrible! The Road to War mod does not work at all now because of it. I HATE IT!. ITS NOT FAIR AT ALL! NOT FAIR! I hope Dale is on the phone right now with the makers of it telling them what he thinks of it. I am sure he will work night and day for a fix to this intolerable situation. This is the worst thing that has ever happened in my entire life! SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!!! :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

Did you read here? :) http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=279426

Only way to get a "working" RtW for 3.17 at this point is to reinstall BtS and then run 3.17 patch. But it won't have any of the Add-on civs or maps (yet). :)

Otherwise, about a week to go. Final testing of changes complete, finishing the scripted events for '36 - Global Assault. :)

So if I wait a week from now, I won't have to re-install BTS with 3.17? Your new patch and work will make it work in about a week from now? I don't mind waiting two weeks if this is the case.

Yes, Add-on Pack 3 for BtS 3.17 will again be a full version. In about a week. :)

That'll mean it's as simple as delete the "Road to War" folder and install AOP3, just like the other two add ons. :)

Or move the original folder. That way if a new patch comes out you can delete AOP3, restore the old folder, and then patch with no BtS reinstall necessary.

Yes, Add-on Pack 3 for BtS 3.17 will again be a full version. In about a week. :)

That'll mean it's as simple as delete the "Road to War" folder and install AOP3, just like the other two add ons. :)

Yes!!! Just in time for the Aussie holidays!

Dale, could you give an estimate on how big the download file will be?

Its the new mod ready yet? I am ready to play it right now :) Also will arty be toned down a bit? ^======^

I remember hearing on the latest episode of ModCast that Dale would balance the artillery better.

Why does it say chieftan next to my name? I can beat the game on chieftan about 2 out of 3 times. I once even beat the game on warlord. Why does it not say warlord next to my name?

Your "rank" is determined by how many posts you have. ;)

You need to post more spam. :D

Is the new road to war mod ready yet? I want to play it right now.

I also want it right now, Dale can you give it to us please? I am in serious WWII mood.

Aye, I would like to play with it as well. There are several beatings that are long overdue. (Dang Poles and their stacks of artillery)

The Polish were sooo easy to beat it was ridiculous. How could you even care about their artillery? I beat them in the 1936 Scenario (open) with Germany, granted after taking the Sudetenland, Austria, and Yugoslavia (went out of order), by 1937 I took over Poland. Its easy; just use infantry. Plus being Germany is the easiest thing ever.

Dale let me download the beta of Add-on pack 3 for BTS rtw and it is Awesome..GLOBAL ASSAULT :king: http://www.noia.org/website/article.asp?id=123

What I want to know is if they are fixing the combat strength so a Tiger is better then a PZKW IV and a modern tank is better then a Tiger? As of right now they are all the same and I cant bring myself to play the game because of it. I also noted the same problem with some of the aircraft. No reason to tech unless its to get nukes?!

Your "rank" is determined by how many posts you have. ;)

You need to post more spam. :D

Too bad they haven't yet figured out a way to use a Text app to rank posts in terms of their wit, irony, or humor and make forum "ranks" dependent on that instead of the shotgun blast value from sheer spamalot . . . :D

Ok here is the globalbeta :king:

Is the add on pack 3 done yet? It has been well over a week and I want to play it NOW NOW NOW!!!! Also can you make it so that there can be right of passage agreements with Turkey and possibly Spain. If Germany conquers the middle-east they should be allowed to bully Turkey into a right of passage agreement. This was the strategy most of the German generals felt that Hitler should follow. An assault through the Mediterranean, capture North Africa, move on through the middle-east, and right on through Turkey. Then the German army would a much better position to attack from in order to liberate the Russian people. Turkey can either grant a passage agreement or be liberated by the German army.

Is the add on pack 3 done yet? It has been well over a week and I want to play it NOW NOW NOW!!!! Also can you make it so that there can be right of passage agreements with Turkey and possibly Spain. If Germany conquers the middle-east they should be allowed to bully Turkey into a right of passage agreement. This was the strategy most of the German generals felt that Hitler should follow. An assault through the Mediterranean, capture North Africa, move on through the middle-east, and right on through Turkey. Then the German army would a much better position to attack from in order to liberate the Russian people. Turkey can either grant a passage agreement or be liberated by the German army.

The add on pack 3 BETA has been out for 5 days!

Here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=280518

I Demand To Know Why I Was Not Told About This. You Guys Should Have Immediatly Notified Me When It Was Completed. How Dare You!!!!!

I Demand To Know Why I Was Not Told About This. You Guys Should Have Immediatly Notified Me When It Was Completed. How Dare You!!!!!

There's a whole thread about it.

I'm still playing 1.2 as there's no combat mod for 3.17 which kills it for me.

Combat mod is in AOP3. What you say is false. :)

Dale, mod pack 3 is a great improvement. The Americans actually go on the offensive. Also, the arty problem is fixed. One thing I did notice is that the Russian tanks seem more powerful than the Germans, but maybe you did that on purpose. The only real request I have are two. Can you make it possible to have open border agreements with Turkey and Spain, as to use a mediterrean strategy when fighting as the Germans? Also, is there a mod you could have where someone can still declare war on a country if they really want to, but yet the dates happen historically. Such as Germany will go to war with russia in 1941, and America, but yet at the same time if I want to invade Turkey to threaten the southern Russian border I can?

Can you make it possible to have open border agreements with Turkey and Spain, as to use a mediterrean strategy when fighting as the Germans?

All ships ignore cultural borders, just like Cavenels due in the normal game
So you should be able to sail straight through their land, unless of course you have discovered a bug! :)

The mod 3 is very good in some ways, unfortionatly, I have noticed a few problems. The German advanced infantry is better than modern infantry. In fact, modern infantry and german advanced infantry are the same, except that modern infantry cost more production to make. Also soviet medium tanks are as powerful as German Tiger tanks. Someone please fix this :(

<brokenrecord>

Once again, the unit strengths are for GAME BALANCE, not for historical authenticity.

</brokenrecord>

<brokenrecord>

Once again, the unit strengths are for GAME BALANCE, not for historical authenticity.

</brokenrecord>

There's other ways to balance these things out while still making it historically accurate, such as by increasing/decreason production times, % bonuses vs types of units, upkeep costs, etc.

True, but it doesn't work for all maps. The best method to keep it game balanced for all maps is to modify the relative strengths.

Trust me, I have played thousands of games, both participating and with full AI autoplay. I have tested each method, and using the strength is the best method to support all maps.

Whilst not historically accurate, it's a very fun and engrossing game on ALL maps. If you want 'full historical reality' go play Hearts of Iron. Civilization IV is NOT DESIGNED FOR HISTORICAL REALITY, it is designed for a FUN GAME. :)

You said it is to balance the game out. But how does it make sense that playing as the german army, you are actually punished when getting a higher tech. As the modern infantry will cost more to make than german advanced infantry, when you get no benefits from it. That should be addressed :(

Except that the gain that other nations get from going from advanced to modern becomes too much. It's a catch 22 situation. I either bump up modern infantry and the jump for all but 1 nation becomes too much from advanced to modern, or leave Germany stuck with a more expensive infantry unit.

Which in effect is what happened after the war. Their training was no different, their tactics were no different, and their weapons were no different. The only difference was that they became post-war infantry. At least nearly every other country had a noticeable difference between end-war and post-war infantry in either tactics, weapons or training.

So it sort of has a historical context, at least at lot more context than a huge jump from adv to mod for every other nation.

I can understand the need to balance out the final tech unit in the game, because every civ uses it, but why not go to greater lengths to make unique units historically accurate? For example, German PzKpfW II's had very weak primary weapons, but were useful against infantry because of its advanced machine guns. Give it a +25% against infantry and reduce it's strength, then BAM! it's historically accurate, and it also gives you the ability to increase the strength of other countriy's infantry because Germany now has a viable anti-infantry weapon besides it's own foot soldiers.

If you tell me that you have tested similar things and found no evidence of it being able to work, then I will believe you, but surely you can understand why I can be so adamant about these types of things.

One thing I want to avoid is complicating units with different bonuses, attack/defense mods etc. War grognards who are used to playing HoI or other heavy war games would eat it up, but the most important thing is to keep the mod generic/easy enough for the average player to get enjoyment too.

If all they have to watch is strength then it is easy enough for them. But if they need to think about strength, terrain mods, domain mods, combat mods etc then it gets too complex for them.

And there's a LOT LOT LOT more of them than us grognards. ;) I estimate about 50,000 regular players from emails and webs