By popular demand ...

Revolution Inquisition (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=9128), a merge of Revolution with bmarnz's Inquisitor mod tuned to work with Revolution.

Inquisitors can be built after the discovery of Theology while you're running a Theocracy in cities that have your state religion. The AI will build them as well and will only purge rebellious cities of heathen religions, ie it won't purge religions from stable cities. You must have your state religion in a city for the inquisitor to be able to perform his mission.

If a purge succeeds, other civs who follow the removed religions will think badly of you and the city will carry a temporary unhappiness penalty. If a purge fails, the city will also have temporary unhappiness penalty plus a boost to its revolution index (chance of revolt). Unhappiness penalties use the slavery whip mechanism ("We can't forget your cruel oppression").

Try it out and see what you think.

If anyone is interested in taking over this particular merge and tinkering with/improving it, PM me and I'll happily make you the uploader for the files.

I love you man.

I tried doing this myself, but I haven't messed with it enough and got everything loaded... but Great Prophets and Inquisitors stopped working.

I was hoping you'd do this :D

This sounds great jdog. Looking forward to checking it out. :goodjob:

Hmmm. I can't seem to find out where the limiter is that makes it theocracy-only.

Which file is that defined in?

Hmm. Found it where I least expected it. Defined at the python level.

That seems... odd. Especially since the Inquisitor unit 'pedia doesn't mention Theocracy requirement.

IIRC, the original Inquisitor mod added a line to the Civic options for allowing units. Seems like this would have been a better way to go, and would have allowed different special units if desired. Also, makes it VERY difficult to mod to allow the Inquisitor in all state religion civics.

bmarnz's code didn't limit when the human player could build Inquisitors at all, only when the AI would consider building it. I think this is because it was based off the Gods of Old scenario in which the limits wouldn't really have been necessary ...

There are other inquisitor mods out there, some may have also incorporated the civic prerequisite for units mod (which requires adding pieces to the SDK). Creating the civic limit in Python was the simplest way to go.

Yipee. Just loaded up a game to try it out. There is no Religious victory in Revolutions ,so I'm wondering what the motivation is for inquisition.

Is it to get a more stable city/empire by removing the other religions ?
Is it to nerf the opposition's shrine income ?
...To try to convert the opposition and get them on side ?
Just wondering what people do with it.

Yipee. Just loaded up a game to try it out. There is no Religious victory in Revolutions ,so I'm wondering what the motivation is for inquisition.

Is it to get a more stable city/empire by removing the other religions ?
Is it to nerf the opposition's shrine income ?
...To try to convert the opposition and get them on side ?
Just wondering what people do with it.

Stability. Extra religions are the very bane of stability.

very cool! I wish the inquisition could also be used to get rid of corporations. I guess a lawyer unit would be needed for that.

Stability. Extra religions are the very bane of stability.

Hmm, that's good to know. It adds another dimension.

Hey is it possible to remove the holy city?
The only way to remove a holy city should be destroying it or there is no other city with that religion.
Couse even though the people in the jewish holy city stops praying to Jahve (God) it doesnt mean that other doesnt and don't think that it is the holy city.:p

Is it only me that noticed that the inquisitor units look like Christian missionaries when not selected?

Yes holy cities can be removed, though the odds are much lower of it succeeding.

Is it only me that noticed that the inquisitor units look like Christian missionaries when not selected?

I've had that problem with other mods and I've been told that it is because I have unit animation turned off. I'm not sure if it's the same situation, but it's worth a shot.

Yes holy cities can be removed, though the odds are much lower of it succeeding.

It should be impossible to remove the holy city until there is no other city with that religion.

Maybe its a way to make inquisitors put the religion down to like 1 %?:king:

It should be impossible to remove the holy city until there is no other city with that religion.

Maybe its a way to make inquisitors put the religion down to like 1 %?:king:

agreed. i'd like an inquisitor unit in my games only if it can destroy holy cities after no other city has the religion.

Why not make it so that if an inquisitor is successfully used on a holy city (chances should be low but reasonable) that has other cities with its religion, then the holy city will move to one of those cities?

Why not make it so that if an inquisitor is successfully used on a holy city (chances should be low but reasonable) that has other cities with its religion, then the holy city will move to one of those cities?

The Pope just say: "Well i guess as Jerusalem don't belive in Jesus was not born there. Hmm maybe he whas born in Athen? Yeah lets take that!"

I don't like this idea but it is still much better then just deleting the holy city.


If inquisitor unit make religion go down to 1 % it would be better.
Becouse the inquisitors did never totally exterminate every heathen religion in a city.:p

The Pope just say: "Well i guess as Jerusalem don't belive in Jesus was not born there. Hmm maybe he whas born in Athen? Yeah lets take that!"

Well, I was looking at holy cities as being the center of an organized religon (nothing to do with the civic :D) rather than a site of events for that religion, and civ 4 seems to support this because all of the money from the other cities flows into their coffers. For instance, Rome was the center that the Pope operated out of. But with the split of the Roman Church into the Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox Church, Constantinople became the "holy city" that this new church operated out of. However, I'm sure that if (hypothetically) some country was able to invade and destroy Rome before this split, or if they somehow against all odds purged Rome of Christianity, then Constantinople would have become the next "holy city" that unified Christianity.

I suppose that if this ever were put into a mod for some reason, then razing the holy city could cause it to change sites too, although this would cause gameplay problems with finding ways of stopping overly powerful religions. Many people usually just raze that religion's holy city in order to stop income from that religion (if they don't have the capability of holding on to it.) Maybe something similar to combat this could be an espionage mission that hopefully causes a split in massive religions much like revolutions does for civilizations. Maybe we could have a "reformationist" spy to use against other religions. I don't know, that might be going too far though, although I have heard about a mod that simulates religion splits.

I could have sworn there was a religion mod that re-created a holy city if there wasn't one.

Maybe something similar to combat this could be an espionage mission that hopefully causes a split in massive religions much like revolutions does for civilizations. Maybe we could have a "reformationist" spy to use against other religions. I don't know, that might be going too far though, although I have heard about a mod that simulates religion splits.

I like the part where religions split, still Jerusalem is the holy city of Christianity, both for orthodox and catholic.

The reason rome whas "the holy city" whas becouse the apostlic palace whas there but still the holy city whas Jerusalem. Ever heard of crusades ordered by the pope to take back "The holy land". The holy land whas not in Rome. :p

Constantinople whas "the holy city" becouse that whas the capital of east roman empire later known as the Byzantine empire.

PS. i still want the inqusitor not to fully take away religion but make it very small in a city.

hi,
is this 1.42 updated?

hi,
is this 1.42 updated?

Yes, came out ~20 hours after 1.42.

jdog5000
hey,

i got some problem with rev inq,

for some reason after founding some religions, when learning code of laws, it asks what religion to found,
i have 10 religions in my mod, is there any limitation that you wrote with the inquisition code? anything that can cause a ctd?

jdog5000
hey,

i got some problem with rev inq,

for some reason after founding some religions, when learning code of laws, it asks what religion to found,
i have 10 religions in my mod, is there any limitation that you wrote with the inquisition code? anything that can cause a ctd?
Nothing I know of, I copied most of the inquisition code though so I can't vouch for all of it. A ctd means it's something in the SDK part of the game, though it can happen because of something in the python portion. The inquisition pieces are all in Python.

Any thought of the Religious victory coming into this merge??

I'd do it myself if I knew how.

Rel. victory and inquisition go well together.

jdog5000
hey,

i got some problem with rev inq,

for some reason after founding some religions, when learning code of laws, it asks what religion to found,
i have 10 religions in my mod, is there any limitation that you wrote with the inquisition code? anything that can cause a ctd?

I thought bmarz included a religion limiter in it. its spposed to pop-up

Any thought of the Religious victory coming into this merge??

I'd do it myself if I knew how.

Rel. victory and inquisition go well together.

Right now I'm actually working on merging Revolution into the WOC project for their future release which I think will be a better long term solution. They've already got a good implementation of Inquisitions in their pack, don't know about Religious Victory but if not they'd definitely add that as well.

That said, if anyone would like to look in to doing this I'll happily make you uploader for Revolution Inquisition.

Any thought of the Religious victory coming into this merge??

I'd do it myself if I knew how.

Rel. victory and inquisition go well together.

Wow. I didn't even notice that it didn't come with it since I merged it into my personal mod.

It's amazingly easy to add.

Edit: The text file didn't save the path. Put the text file in the text dir.

Thanks for this mod. How easy is it for a religion to spread back into a city by osmosis after it has been removed?

If a religion was eraseable, but that it could easily spread back into the city (like very easily by osmosis), then that would be good in my opinion. This would match with reality, where you cannot really get rid of a religion that exists in the minds and the hearts of the people in the long term.

If Inquisitions could be used just as a short term fix by humans and AI's to get the threat of rebellion down a little, a bit like how a bribe works in Revolutions. (A bribe is a secular way of reducing the probability of rebellion and an inquisitor is a non-secular way of doing it). What I mean is that an inquisition is about a short term purge. Bad luck if the religion is likely to re-emerge and another rebellion looms again. Like a bribe, an inquisition is just about the possibility of removing the threat of the collapse of law and order and the possible domino effect throughout the civ. I guess the risk of collapse thanks to an inquisition should be similar to a bribe then?

Is this how it works the way it has been implemented? Not an easy balance. If it's a good implementation, I'll maintain this mod up to date no problem. ;)

Cheers.

Wow. I didn't even notice that it didn't come with it since I merged it into my personal mod.

It's amazingly easy to add.

Edit: The text file didn't save the path. Put the text file in the text dir.

Thanks Duuk. Much appreciated. I just play rel. victories these days. It makes a good game I think.


If a religion was eraseable, but that it could easily spread back into the city (like very easily by osmosis), then that would be good in my opinion.

The thing is you usually are in Theocracy so there's no osmosis - only burning.

As mice said, by default you have to be in Theocracy to be able to launch Inquisitions ... this handles the question of osmosis. There are no other particular anti-osmosis effects in the mod, though if you have your state religion in the city already it decreases the chances of others appearing, at least in the early game.

The real threat for trying an Inquisition is when they fail, you'll see a temporary boost to unhappiness as well as a boost to RevIndex if your Inquisitor fails.

Glider, I made you the uploader for this mod ... if you go to Downloads/My Files you should see it there. I've got my hands full with Revolution so I hope you will maintain this pack! If you change your mind, just switch it back to me or flip it to someone else.

Glider, I made you the uploader for this mod ... if you go to Downloads/My Files you should see it there. I've got my hands full with Revolution so I hope you will maintain this pack! If you change your mind, just switch it back to me or flip it to someone else.

Yeah no problems Jdog yes you would have your hands full with the bigger picture for Revolutions! That's ok. I've taken a look at the code from a "novice" point of view. Here are some observations:

- There are no markers to indicate when Inquisitions code starts or ends (not serious and pretty obvious where the code is)

- The xml's appear to have many small changes to other units which are not related to Inquisitions (can be detected and ignored using WinMerge)

- You can't turn the component on or off (important)

I only mention this because of merge-ability that's all. I have done a merge of RevolutionDCM 0.6 and Inquistions 1.0 just as an experiment which gives me some authority to comment on that. That has been uploaded if anyone wants to try.

Although I'm not sure Inquisitions is a great addition to the already wonderful Revolutions, if you can turn it on or off as a custom option that would keep everyone happy.

Cheers and thanks for more creative ideas. ;)

)

I only mention this because of merge-ability that's all. I have done a merge of RevolutionDCM 0.6 and Inquistions 1.0 just as an experiment which gives me some authority to comment on that. That has been uploaded if anyone wants to try.


Yes, I'll have a game of that :) Is it somewhere for me to dl ?

For the meantime, the latest build of Inquisitions can be found at the RevolutionDCM download (see signature):

In RevolutionDCM but not in Inquisitions 1.00 there is an extra AI filter applied to the use of an Inquisitor. Only AI's that possess the top 33% most influential religions on the globe will consider conducting an Inquisition if the correct conditions are met. This makes AI inquisitions uncommon, and if they are conducted, it will only be the big religious states doing so. This is the first tentative step towards emulating the Spanish Succession in Europe and the Grand Inquisitor.

There are a few other issues thus far:
1) If there are two or more holy religions founded in the same holy city, the non-state holy religion(s) get's booted out for ever. This is very rare but possible on tiny maps where significant religious states may only ever have three cities increasing the likelyhood of such an event.

2) Inquisitor's are invisible like spies. The AI won't use them for exploration but cheeky humans could be tempted to explore rival civs with impunity instead of using spies as they rightfully should :mischief:

Cheers.

For the meantime, the latest build of Inquisitions can be found at the RevolutionDCM download (see signature):

In RevolutionDCM but not in Inquisitions 1.00 there is an extra AI filter applied to the use of an Inquisitor. Only AI's that possess the top 33% most influential religions on the globe will consider conducting an Inquisition if the correct conditions are met. This makes AI inquisitions uncommon, and if they are conducted, it will only be the big religious states doing so. This is the first tentative step towards emulating the Spanish Succession in Europe and the Grand Inquisitor.

There are a few other issues thus far:
1) If there are two or more holy religions founded in the same holy city, the non-state holy religion(s) get's booted out for ever. This is very rare but possible on tiny maps where significant religious states may only ever have three cities increasing the likelyhood of such an event.

2) Inquisitor's are invisible like spies. The AI won't use them for exploration but cheeky humans could be tempted to explore rival civs with impunity instead of using spies as they rightfully should :mischief:

Cheers.

Yeah, I have a question. I downloaded RevolutionDCM and merged Wolfshanze into it, and most of the stuff is working. However, I can't seem to get Inquisition to work. It appears as Disabled in the pop-up that appears when you start a new game or load an old one, so I know it is in the mod somewhere. How do I go about enabling it? It is not in the GlobalDefines file like the rest of the plugins are.

@OnionSoldier
Sorry about the confusion. Inquisitions was in RevolutionDCM up to the end of BTS 3.13. Now that BTS 3.17 is here, Inquisitions is dead until I revive it (very soon). Keep an eye on the RevolutionDCM mod forum. It should make a reappearance within days.

On the Wolf merge, Phungus has done a merge of RevolutionDCM with Wolf as well. Check out post 422 of the RevolutionDCM forum.
Cheers.