I feel it is time in a change of government, that is why I propose that the Triad be overthrown! We need a stronger, and much wiser government!

REBELLION!!!:mad:

Before anyone cast their votes, what do you suggest we do if the Triad is overthrown?

I suggest that we hold another election for the PF then we will start from there. This time, we will have much more options to pick for which faction will lead us.

First out, this poll is flawed, it is set to run for 2 weeks, which is against the core rules. This poll ends 3 of May.


I think the Faith and the Warlords deserve their cities we have agreed on. Only Philosophers have gotten their end of the deal, so the rebellion is not well-timed, just before the Faith and Warlord cities are to be built. This rebellion is not only against Philosophers for that reason, but also Faith and Warlords as well.

The Warlords feel we deserve our city after such a long wait and loyalty, other than the city, we had a marginal impact on the development (save scouting).

If I were the opposition, I would rather carve out a decent platform countering the Triad, not merely stating that they don't like the system. No alternative vision has been presented at all from the opposition, merely degrading our regime. A real rebellion would have a real platform, a real policy, civic change to contest the existing civics and staying true to the present civics.

Provo this rebellion is what is. I call all my friends to stand with us. This rabbelrousers will have their spotlight. But history shines on builders not destroyers.

Glory to the Triad. May my enemies be scourned by heaven.

If the rebellion fails, i propose to declare Vandal Warlord "enemy of the state" with loss of all civil rights as long as Triad faction stays in power.
When there's a change of Prime Faction, that Faction can then decide what to do with Vandal Warlord.

we can still run the planned turn sessions during this very long vote. I am hopefull that we should have the three cities in place by then and maybe 1-2 more.

The Triad consul will decide a suitable punishment for these gnats.

First out, this poll is flawed, it is set to run for 2 weeks, which is against the core rules. This poll ends 3 of May.


I think the Faith and the Warlords deserve their cities we have agreed on. Only Philosophers have gotten their end of the deal, so the rebellion is not well-timed, just before the Faith and Warlord cities are to be built. This rebellion is not only against Philosophers for that reason, but also Faith and Warlords as well.

The Warlords feel we deserve our city after such a long wait and loyalty, other than the city, we had a marginal impact on the development (save scouting).

If I were the opposition, I would rather carve out a decent platform countering the Triad, not merely stating that they don't like the system. No alternative vision has been presented at all from the opposition, merely degrading our regime. A real rebellion would have a real platform, a real policy, civic change to contest the existing civics and staying true to the present civics.

The faith and Warlords may have their cities, it doesn't bother me. The faith and Warlords are doing fine, but, I heavily apose what the Philoiphers are doing in shaping Aretes histroy. I ask that all those who wish too see the Triad removed from power stand with me, although this rebellion has no specific platform, the Triad are shaping Arete in opposition to the people!:mad:

If the rebellion fails, i propose to declare Vandal Warlord "enemy of the state" with loss of all civil rights as long as Triad faction stays in power.
When there's a change of Prime Faction, that Faction can then decide what to do with Vandal Warlord.

If I am to be "Enemy of the State" and this rebellion is to fail, I will abandon the rebellion, I will not loose all of my Civil Rights because of something that is destined to fail. But I still feel that Shattered is not listening to all the factions, and guilds, and what we would like to do!

NZl, I will not abandon my faction, I will surrender halfway into this rebellion if we are loosing, but if we are winning, May the heavens guide us. For we will either find a way, or make one!-Hannibal Barca

First out, this poll is flawed, it is set to run for 2 weeks, which is against the core rules. This poll ends 3 of May.


This does not go against core rules, The rules say that no rebellion can be longer than 2 weeks, mine is 2 weeks exacly. I follow the rules!

There is no punishment for rebellion, but an inability for the culprit to join our faction for 2 months.

I fail to see any real points in your argument beyong 'enemy of the people'. In order to win you need to make a good, well reasoned argument.

Good luck trying to overthrow us. ;)

There is no punishment for rebellion, but an inability for the culprit to join our faction for 2 months.
.......

Good luck trying to overthrow us. ;)

Why would I want to join your faction, I am trying to oppose it?:lol:

And in two months DGIII would be over!

You would want to join because we will win, ands you will remain powerless until a more democratic civic comes to power.

You would want to join because we will win, ands you will remain powerless until a more democratic civic comes to power.

I would never,NEVER abandon my faction!

When you present such puny arguments and lack of reasoning, you really hurt your cause more than you might know, Vandal Warlord.

I suggest Vandal Warlord be banished from voting for as long as the Triad is in power.

Edit:Never mind!

No, as head of the Way of the Pure Order, I am in charge of matters of judgment. I see no reason to punish Vandal Warlord for standing up against the government. He is simply voicing his opinion, and we should not stop that. We may be despots but we are not tyrants.

However, I ask every other person who wishes to start a future rebellion to first bring it before the ruling faction(s). Please continue the rebellion.

Vandal Warlord just wasted rebellions chances for two full weeks, effectively securing the Triad for 2 full weeks, thank you. I hope the next rebellion is better organized and planned at least, not merely done out of spite, frustration and lack of initiative and planning.

If you won't contiue it, i will, if i can't have fun in this game by particapting in disscussion and having my and other peoples (not exlcusively non- PF members) ideas properly listened to, then i will have to overthrow the oppressive government. I don't care that the rebellion is losing badly, this is just how much i think of the triad right now.

Half the time i don't what deicisons have been made, by whom and when, this is NOT how you run a demogame. Don't give me any of that, "well it is despotism, what do you expect". It's one thing to roleplay as a type of government, it's an entirely different thing when you don't listen to anyones ideas and longstanding demogame players arn't active. I can only think of myself, Methos, dutchfire, DS and kwarriorpoet and maybe a few other non-prime faction members who are here regulary, so you have lossed alot of previously active posters and the only really active RP things are the succession game and the PBEM game. So basically thats why i have had enough.

And if you are going to punish me, which without doubt you will considering you jump so fast onto Vandal Warlord case then please consider how are other people meant to present ideas when you dismiss them as being a pain and punish them becuase of it?

Okay, so this rebellion is still going on? Lovely.

What specific idea have you had so far in the game Joe Harker? What technology choice are you bad with, what specific city builds are you bad with, what unit movements are you bad with? Please enlighten us. Frustration is one thing, but you got to provide viable alternatives, not complaints only. Merely referring to past players more or less prestigious performances in past demogames wouldn't do it.

I vividly recall how you guys voted for each other in the last demogame, whereas I and a couple of others never became part of the Designated Player list. So I know how it is to be on the outside. Shattered was voted out too, since he was not a household name.
So please, figure out a viable alternative, and make a much better prepared rebellion, and you may even win it.

What specific idea have you had so far in the game Joe Harker? What technology choice are you bad with,


The current discussion on IW/arch and CoL.


what specific city builds are you bad with,

not building a worker after the city was started.


what unit movements are you bad with? Please enlighten us. Frustration is one thing, but you got to provide viable alternatives, not complaints only.


The atomsphere surrounding the game, i feel not listen to, i have no impact on the game,
i have said that making deicison away from the general public does smack of elitism which is the thing we were promised wouldn't happen in this game. At least in the old demogame everyone was on the same level, officals were there to keep disscussion ghoing about a certain issue and to post what had been decided by the people in the DP thread. Sure there were things we disagreed on, thats natural in a group of people. But this system of power and lack of rules essientally means the Triad can do what it wants whenever it wants and really does spoils the game for the rest of us.

Thats why i don't like the triad because it has create them and us, not us and we

How i would do things differently, well i would create a organise DP thread, make sure rules on turnchats were created and observed, i haven't been happy about the exclusivity of playing the save, only ONE nonfaction member will play the save and he is the only nonfaction member offical of any kind.

I would make sure that if there was a big debate on an issue i would poll it, then everyone knows there is a concenus one way or the other, and i would make sure that it's not just non-faction members that are in control, so nofaction members could be officals, and like in the old demogames an offical would be the medium for the the citizens to get their ideas down for a turnchat, not the the offical's ideas only.




Shattered was voted out too, since he was not a household name.

I ws voted in, so was Hyronymus, Grant 2004 so thats not an entirely concrete arguement

I vividly recall how you guys voted for each other in the last demogame, whereas I and a couple of others never became part of the Designated Player

You only tried once, and everyone who tried to be DP twice got voted in. I voted for everyone in DP elections, because i felt that everyone, including you could play the save.
So, don't pick on me as you have no grounds for that arguement against me.

Also you were warlord and when i went up for election against you, it was quite a close race.

Joe, although you are in charge of the rebellion now I will support you as best as I can by throwing my faction behind you! We may only have three members, at at least we will have something!!!

The current discussion on IW/arch and CoL.

Well, the technology discussion has gone in all kinds of direction, and you are not the only one not being heard. I have been arguing for IW for a long while, like some of you have been arguing for CoL. However, the Triad is the group of players having added most to the game so far, which explains the support. So I would rather work on a more well thought out comprehensive plan and alternative to the present government. I would urge you to write down such a plan with other players, and muster support behind a viable alternative, and then call a rebellion when you are prepared. The Faction system was to prevent mob rule, and if mob rule is what you want, your support will be marginal. To get control, you need to present a sort of order most players would like, if you are in minority, you are not being heard.


not building a worker after the city was started.

We built a worker, remember, it is the very unit presently working horses and pigs, the 2nd unit we built, was the settler, which is now becoming the 2nd city. Most players agreed to this.


The atomsphere surrounding the game, i feel not listen to, i have no impact on the game,
i have said that making deicison away from the general public does smack of elitism which is the thing we were promised wouldn't happen in this game. At least in the old demogame everyone was on the same level, officals were there to keep disscussion ghoing about a certain issue and to post what had been decided by the people in the DP thread. Sure there were things we disagreed on, thats natural in a group of people. But this system of power and lack of rules essientally means the Triad can do what it wants whenever it wants and really does spoils the game for the rest of us.

For the early game, the amount of decision is limited, we are now talking about city builds, technology and scouting, mostly. The first three city builds are predetermined by faction ownership, you already know that. Technology is run by the Legion, which vote on these things internally. I have pushed for IW for some time now, but I am fine with not winning through, since that may support my argument later. Technology is drawn in all directions, we got 6
-8 different tech plans floating around, and it is not guaranteed to be heard.
If you are unhappy with the scouting, which was my only area, please let me and NZL know.

Thats why i don't like the triad because it has create them and us, not us and we

What do you expect? With different philosophies and interests like this, people are bound to disagree. The way some of us have been treated, does not really inspire to surrender all hard won privileges as well as removing the historicity element from the game.

How i would do things differently, well i would create a organise DP thread, make sure rules on turnchats were created and observed, i haven't been happy about the exclusivity of playing the save, only ONE nonfaction member will play the save and he is the only nonfaction member offical of any kind.


I suggested DP institute in the core rules, remember, that side lost. I think you guys expected Tribal Faction to win the election, as you were biggest then. This is why you fought against renewing the DP institute (Remember, I argued for DP institute this game).

I agree the turnsets could have much better reporting and information, and I think Ballazic si about to fix that for Legion, and AK is going there as well with Faith, I am certain NZL will write a good report to, so will the last player playing the save from the contest. Yeah, there is only one non-faction official doing as save, which is more than fair. Several of the officials within the Triad are not playing saves either, and we are not complaining. Maybe the biggest reason you are not an official or playing the save, is that we may feel you do not represent us, and not qualified as much within roleplay, gameplay or rules as other non-faction members or Tribal Members (2 of the Tribals are nominated already for it).


I would make sure that if there was a big debate on an issue i would poll it, then everyone knows there is a concenus one way or the other, and i would make sure that it's not just non-faction members that are in control, so nofaction members could be officals, and like in the old demogames an offical would be the medium for the the citizens to get their ideas down for a turnchat, not the the offical's ideas only.


I agree we are to poll things, in Triad pace. We have set up a government form set on three pillars, and that is what we went on election for. So far, we have fulfilled our obligations, and we expect to fulfill or remaining ones. I also do not think non-faction members should be officials, since you would not be representative to our members. If you oppose every fiber we stand for, and not being a real contributor to our collective vision on how to solve things, you would of course not be entrusted critical tasks. To earn trust, make some novel ideas, make proposals, roleplay and so on, not just open your hand and ask for handouts, as Triad is not a Welfare State, people need to earn their way here. And we listen too, the city sites DS proposed is now what we use as a reference guide for city placement. All kinds of contributions are welcome, but if you dont contribute, not expect much support for leadership and proposals.


I ws voted in, so was Hyronymus, Grant 2004 so thats not an entirely concrete arguement

You guys were voted in, because you fit into the concept of the unofficial Prime Faction running that particular game, some of us did not. Now all these conflicts of interest are put into the open, which I think is fair for people to see. Several players are not voted in, speaking of all demogames and so on where elections take place.



You only tried once, and everyone who tried to be DP twice got voted in. I voted for everyone in DP elections, because i felt that everyone, including you could play the save.
So, don't pick on me as you have no grounds for that arguement against me.

I tried several times, and I am not picking on you, merely stating our case.
I thank you for voting on me, and I voted for you, but the unofficial veteran party did not want me. I am not playing saves here either, but I find this infinately better than other games, and just look at the roleplay.

Also you were warlord and when i went up for election against you, it was quite a close race.

It was a close race, but I sort of knew I would lose it, something I am fine with. But I was never fine with the lack of mandate I had under that ruleset, and the way I was treated. I have of course taken these experiences with me, and use them as a reference for how I do not want to have it.

We built a scout, Provo.

Yes , true, I forgot. But we needed that warrior to escort the settler, and the scout is needed to scout Spain etc as well as the remaining landmass.

I suggested DP institute in the core rules, remember, that side lost. I think you guys expected Tribal Faction to win the election, as you were biggest then. This is why you fought against renewing the DP institute (Remember, I argued for DP institute this game).

So did i! :)

Well then, you need to direct some of the blame to those in the tribal camp asking for minimizing the core rules. If some of the core rules I proposed were in place, some of your concerns would be solved (rules for reporting and instructions etc as well as DP institute).

I also found it funny that Tribals asked for no minimum requirement and no maximum requirement for factions, then ganged up in a super-faction. Of course a coalition had to be the answer simply to provide an alternative.

Obviously no - they have demostrated that they cannot effectively run a government, just run an anarchist rabble.

From a pure gameplay perspective, I cannot imagine a WORSE job than has been done by the Triad. Minimal discussion. Minimal effort to get all citizens involved in the process. No posted instructions. Toss in their simple statements of "We don't care what you think, we're doing it this way", and you've got a disastrous system for the DG.

Oh, sure - I forgot - we're a Despot. Funny - I didn't see anything requiring the hostile despot we've gotten. That's a pure construct of the Triad to defend their actions.

As Provo said, this will probably fail, and so they'll have another two weeks to continue their destruction of the DG.

Bravo, Triad. Bravo.

-- Ravensfire

I think it will improve from now on. I asked for prior instructions and reports, as well as a thread to post such things in, and it did not appear. However, I think the Philosophers Legion would now make a few changes from what I have heard.

Also, the game is not all bad, a lot of good things have happened, and it is on the positive side. However, the absence of in-game reports from playsessions is a problem. Some book-keeping is expected from those that play saves.

Provo - as I pointed out in another thread, allow me to correct your interpretation of the facts.

This DG as a group decided to have each Faction put the rules for playing the save in their factional rules. You wanted to stack nearly everything in the core rules, giving minimal power to the Factions. That's quite opposite from the concept and from what the people wanted.

When the Triad posted their faction, it was, and still is, a minimalist document specifying almost nothing for actual gameplay related matters. You want to blame someone for the lack of rules on game session - blame the Prime Faction. Not the people that rejected your idea.

Incidentally, I went back a bit and looked at why you didn't get elected DP in the one and only term that you tried to become one. It's pretty clear why you didn't get elected, Provo, and it certainly wasn't the imaginary clique of your conspiracy theories. You were nominated a second time, and declined it.

-- Ravensfire

I also found it funny that Tribals asked for no minimum requirement and no maximum requirement for factions,

I agreed to that, it didn't seem to make sense to limit the number of turnchats. Also it just wasn't only tribal conucil members who got the ruleset into force so agains some of the blame has to come from the triads for setting up a rather poor system of playing the save.

but we could go on and on about this, blaming each other instead of fixing whats wrong (incidently isn't there meant to be a monthly conference on whats going right and whats going wrong? :lol:) This is what i am trying to do, not in spite but becuase i don't see the triad doing it and all i want is a good, FUN demogame where everyone feels a part of it, in what ever way they want to.

The Triad system for playing saves was not bad, but the implementation could be better, due to absent notifications of playsessions, absent instruction threads prior to turnchats, absent reports from turnchats and finally that the leaders did not agree on a schedule for the remaining month until far into the game. However, our nation is doing well, and we are heading in the right direction now.

First out, this poll is flawed, it is set to run for 2 weeks, which is against the core rules. This poll ends 3 of May.


The ending date can be corrected if necessary.

we can still run the planned turn sessions during this very long vote. I am hopefull that we should have the three cities in place by then and maybe 1-2 more.

Don't assume too much.

This does not go against core rules, The rules say that no rebellion can be longer than 2 weeks, mine is 2 weeks exacly. I follow the rules!

The rules give how long the gap is between unsupported rebellions, not how long a rebellion takes.

Vandal Warlord just wasted rebellions chances for two full weeks, effectively securing the Triad for 2 full weeks, thank you.

Untrue, the core rules do not require two weeks between rebellions. Someone very carefully ensured that they didn't. :mischief:

If the rebellion fails, i propose to declare Vandal Warlord "enemy of the state" with loss of all civil rights as long as Triad faction stays in power.
When there's a change of Prime Faction, that Faction can then decide what to do with Vandal Warlord.

I think it's a tad early for a rebellion, but I voted "no" because I absolutely support anyone's lawful right to call for a rebellion; and by so voting, I hope I get voted an enemy of the powers that be!

Please, please make me an enemy of the state! I looonnnngggg to be an enemy of the state! Please please please? :crazyeye:

Please, please make me an enemy of the state! I looonnnngggg to be an enemy of the state! Please please please? :crazyeye:

Bertie,

You have been declared an Enemy Of The State (of normalcy)!

You may begin running for your life when ready. That is all ...

:p

-- Ravensfire

2 weeks is a rediculously long time for a rebellion, without any play you may well lose far more players than any amount of "triad mismanagement" ever did. If there is to be no play of the save then this rebellion poll must be shorter, 4 days max.

The ending date can be corrected if necessary.



Don't assume too much.



The rules give how long the gap is between unsupported rebellions, not how long a rebellion takes.



Untrue, the core rules do not require two weeks between rebellions. Someone very carefully ensured that they didn't. :mischief:

I think there was a limitation to the number of rebellions, or we may see rebellion spam. Also, I think you posted the wrong core rules we agreed on, since we had a set where certain conditions for a rebellion had to be met, and a limitation to the number of rebellions that could take place. We cannot have 1-3 players holding the demogame hostage by declaring a rebellion every single day for the duration of the demogame and blocking saves.

If you are the one that instituted filibuster core rules, you quite possibly sabotaged the ruleset, and we will see to have that undoing patched right away with an amendment to the core rules.

If this rebellion fails within monday, we will continue to play the next session as originally planned.

I don't want the Demogame to be held hostage at all. By the way, when I have tried to edit the poll I cannot change when the poll ends, anyone care to tell me how to change it?

I believe moderators can edit it.

Then, moderator, can you change the ending date to a more reasonable time?

From the Core Rules:
Rebellions:
Every other week the country chooses whether to enter anarchy. If a simple majority wish to rebel than the prime faction is overthrown and a poll goes up to chose a new one.

* Requires a simple majority to enter rebellion.
* During this time recognized factions can announce their intent to join the rebellion (and thus have a chance to become the prime faction).
* The country can choose to not even consider a rebellion. If this is the case then the citizens can consider a rebellion at any time past the original two week period.

Early Rebellions:
A rebellion may take place earlier than the two week period only if it is supported by 3 or more registered citizens. All other rules for rebellions still apply.

Pretty straight-forward.

If a situation does arise where 3 people are continually trying for a rebellion, I'm quite confident that a mod would step in and stop it. That's disruptive to the DG, and would not be allowed.

-- Ravensfire

I agree constant revolution is bad for government, I think that a new rule could be instituded to stop it.

I think DS made sure to leave that open, unfortunately. The original proposal I saw, which I thought was posted as the core rule, had a 14 day quarantine between each rebellion to prevent rebellion spam.

I think that If stong enough a rebellion could bypass this law.

Huh, I just remembered that Shattered is not here, Heh, by the time he gets back he could have been overthrown.Heh.

Well , this game should not open for a continuous rebellion, and most sane players here agrees to that. We will patch that here and now.

I think DS made sure to leave that open, unfortunately. The original proposal I saw, which I thought was posted as the core rule, had a 14 day quarantine between each rebellion to prevent rebellion spam.

And a circumvention was created to prevent obvious abuse by the Prime Faction. That was clearly covered in the discussion.

-- Ravensfire

What circumvention was that?

What circumvention was that?

That section called Early Rebellion of course...

-- Ravensfire

So you want a system with 3 people effectively deciding Prime Faction via filibuster, is that the plan?

Viva la revolucion!

Well , this game should not open for a continuous rebellion, and most sane players here agrees to that. We will patch that here and now.

We have sane players? :confused:

Viva la revolucion!

Ok then.............

Provo, I have noticed you have heavily disaproved this rebellion from the start, so I ask you, Why?

We have sane players? :confused:

you obviously think little of us, which explains this post, but most of us agrees there needs to be a limit to the rebellion option.

Si!Yes!Woot!

Provo, I have noticed you have heavily disaproved this rebellion from the start, so I ask you, Why?

We have agreed to a coalition, and even if I am not 100 % perfect by how things are run, most of it is fine. Yet, Legion needs to fix up a number of things also for the other faction partners. Yet, we keep our end of the bargain, as future coalition partners would also recognize that.

Triad is not to last forever, and we agreed to run for the first three cities and a couple of civics, then reshuffle around.

Triad is not to last forever, and we agreed to run for the first three cities and a couple of civics, then reshuffle around.

Hmph. What exacly were you promised?

only to run the scouting and military operations outside borders and get to decide location of third city, as written in the Coalition Platform.

What should the ending date be?

72 hours later than the announcement should be customary for both rebellions and elections, to be fair to all sides.

Edit: I agree with Provo

I think there was a limitation to the number of rebellions, or we may see rebellion spam. Also, I think you posted the wrong core rules we agreed on, since we had a set where certain conditions for a rebellion had to be met, and a limitation to the number of rebellions that could take place.

I posted the last set of rules which were proposed in the thread. The only modification I made was to add "at any time" to the core rules revision provision. I did not change the rebellion part at all. The 3 player requirement was what we agreed on to avoid a prime faction from running away with the game.

Provo, I do not think you will get anything less than what you and NZL were promised. You worked hard for your oppertunity and I respect that.

Join a coalition with Tribal Council, and your role will (probably) remain the same -- perhaps even be increased. :D

So you want a system with 3 people effectively deciding Prime Faction via filibuster, is that the plan?

Please read my response to that EXACT scenario several posts up.

And you want a Prime Faction that can abuse your proposed system to never worry about a rebellion?

-- Ravensfire

Hmm I smell something fishey. the Triad just got 4 votes in 10 minutes.:mad:

And we also want a rule that prevents an eternal filibuster, if someone wants to sabotage a game.

The system needs to be free of abuse by anyone.

Let's leave it to the people on a case by case basis. If a rebellion is unfounded or seen by the people to be merely a filibuster technique, it will be squashed quickly. If it is well-founded, then the people will agree.

Even in this case, where it could be argued that there is a good reason for the rebellion, lack of a good foundation will probably doom it. This should not prevent another, better organized effort based on the same reason.

And I will caution all, do not let this drop to the level of personal attacks and accusations. My mouse sometimes hovers over the yellow/red card icon and I wouldn't want to develop a :twitch:

Please let me know if I am violating any forum rule, I believe I have been quite civic here.

The system needs to be free of abuse by anyone.

Let's leave it to the people on a case by case basis. If a rebellion is unfounded or seen by the people to be merely a filibuster technique, it will be squashed quickly. If it is well-founded, then the people will agree.

Even in this case, where it could be argued that there is a good reason for the rebellion, lack of a good foundation will probably doom it. This should not prevent another, better organized effort based on the same reason.

And I will caution all, do not let this drop to the level of personal attacks and accusations. My mouse sometimes hovers over the yellow/red card icon and I wouldn't want to develop a :twitch:

Thanks Dave, you will need to watch the forums VERY Carefully now There has already been a poll for my punishment. Which goes against core rules, and make you fell hated insided. No wait, It was just the burrito I had for lunch!:D:blush: Vandal pukes on the ground Yup, definatly the burrito.

Join a coalition with Tribal Council, and your role will (probably) remain the same -- perhaps even be increased. :D

We haven't (Warlords), any of us, gotten even a PM from the ones planning this rebellion. It is an ill-prepared coup attempt, and we have no clue of what proposed platform is in place.

We have sane players?

:lol: It is difficult to tell at times!

We haven't (Warlords), any of us, gotten even a PM from the ones planning this rebellion. It is an ill-prepared coup attempt, and we have no clue of what proposed platform is in place.

Although I agree that I should have contacted the Triad first, I was so eager to change the government(and possibly, not likely put me in charge) But, I do agree In puting forth a rule saying that a possible rebellion leader must contact the leading faction before signaling a rebellion.

It is an ill-prepared coup attempt, and we have no clue of what proposed platform is in place.

That is for potential prime factions to decide, not the rebellion leaders, anyway i have outlined what i would do.

Although I agree that I should have contacted the Triad first
Nah, if you contact the faction in power about a rebellion, you just let them build their case in advance.

:DI never said I would warn them about a rebellion;):D I just meant if there was a big problem we should PM the Faction first!

Yeah, if there is a core game problem, it is fair to bring it up, if its of broader nature, unless you keep it secret and bring it up for a rebellion, but then you lose credibility for being insincere.

Oh and Provo, NZL actuall leads the warlords right? Even though you are the founder?

I am the founder, but NZL is our elected leader.

If I wasn't clear before (got a private question about it), Tribal Council supports rebellion. Not that it should be a big surprise to anyone.

We sort of assumed Tribal pulled the strings there :D

The Tribal Council pulled no strings in the creation of this rebellion. I acted alone.

Fair enough then :)

I'll confirm that. It was a complete surprise, and not really a pleasant one truth be known, but the die is cast and we play it how it falls.

Ok, Let me get this clarified. How MANY factions have thrown support behind the rebellion?

I'm only going to vote once a platform for the rebels is made. Will you have it ready in time?

If not, I vote for the Triad.

I'm only going to vote once a platform for the rebels is made. Will you have it ready in time?

I can't really give you one because it up to opposing factions to come up with a ruleset, hopefully by Late sunday/monday we should have something (it will most likely be based on tthe current tribal conucil ruleset)

A platform huh? Hmmmmm.................How 'bout this

Platform for the Rebellion,:
The Triad under Shattered and NZL have done several things to upset the population but I would like to single out a few in particular. The first being that Triad seems to be very secretive when playing 3Turn Chats without even notifing anyone besides the Philosiphers faction what Shattered and ALuminumKnight were going to do. The Triad also seems(as I stated partly above) to only notify the Philosiphers faction what Shattered is going to do when desciding what to do. And the other members of the Triad seem not to be able to do anything that they were promised to in the Triad Platform. This upsets me because, although we are a despotism, we, the citizens, should be notified when our Gracious Prime Faction descides to do somehing that will affect the history of Arete.

How was that?

It's a start. Not really a platform, but an explanation of what triggered this action does need to be part of it.

There are things to consider, it might take another day or so to draft anything.
And we might want to let the Monday session go and then have another rebellion based on a more detailed proposal.

:blush:Lead the way Dave!

I will have the platform set up by Monday morning at the latest. We need to set up a forum for that cause alone. Anyone who wishes a change in the way the game is being led is invited to help us draft. Yeaaa, even you Provo. I wish we had waited until we at least had republic or h-rule before we kicked off the rebellion, but its looking like a benevalent dictatorship checked by council is looking like the best option... However we need support and cannidates for our.. Imporator? President? King? Any Ideas? And by the way Vandel congrats on making this game interesting again... Thankyou

Your Welcome! Though I do admit I did jump the gun there!

We haven't (Warlords), any of us, gotten even a PM from the ones planning this rebellion. It is an ill-prepared coup attempt, and we have no clue of what proposed platform is in place.

Someone tries a coup, but doesn't warn the government beforehand? How terribly uncivilized

Someone tries a coup, but doesn't warn the government beforehand? How terribly uncivilized

Vandal Warlord belches Excuse me?

Someone tries a coup, but doesn't warn the government beforehand? How terribly uncivilized

I mean for inviting us to join the rebellion, they need to be consistent and strategic in these matters.

But Provo, you are part of the Triad, We are rebelling AGAINST the Triad!!!

However we need support and cannidates for our.. Imporator? President? King? Any Ideas?

I suggest that we come up with a new title, that or leader holds, besides Despot[Insert Name Here]. Hmmm....... how about the leaders title is based on what faction he is in, Examples:
Tribal Council:Cheif
IWMF:Weapons Master
Warlords: Warlord
PoL: Philosipher

Come with proof of your insults before making such heavy judgements.

Any citizen can give his opinion and suggestions. It is the PF who listens to all the suggestions and then decides what should be done.

Come with proof of your insults before making such heavy judgements.

Any citizen can give his opinion and suggestions. It is the PF who listens to all the suggestions and then decides what should be done.

Where did that come from?

The title of the leader is decided by the prime faction, Shattered's title is Enlightened One

Thanks for the clarification Seymoo!

Where did that come from?

It came from me.

It was a comment on Joe Harkers insults against the system.

Oh, I thought it was me!

I checked the poll so far......

HOLY COW!!!! The REBELLION GOTTA TON OF SUPPORT!?!?!

Wow..... I didn't really expect that!:blush::p:crazyeye:

I think its best for all parties we get a Prime Faction election soon, but not from this rebellion, but with good strategy alternatives from all sides.

It is simply becoming clear our cause IS just!

Interestingly enough, the outcome of this poll, even with the influx and outflow of players, we see that the support for and against Triad remains more or less the same in the initial election.

Come with proof of your insults before making such heavy judgements.

Any citizen can give his opinion and suggestions. It is the PF who listens to all the suggestions and then decides what should be done.

Proof, ok, where is the turnchat threads with instructions for each of the last two turnchats?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=271260

There it is, and other gameplay information is located in the Gameplay forum. Its all there, Joe. There are discussions in which any citizens can take part etc.

Thats not a thread where the triad has posted what they intend to do in a turnchat.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=272395

Happy now?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=272395

Happy now?

Happy? No. There are more than enough veteran players in the Coalition who should have known that such threads help keep everyone informed on the status, progress and goals of the DG game.

The Prime Faction blew it - they started this game off poorly - with thunder and lightning and no substance. That it took something like this to get them to finally see reason is embarrasing. That they try to blame their failing on others is worse.

-- Ravensfire

The majority of players (inside the Coalition) knew what really happened, so blaming veterans in the faction won't do, I called for instruction threads and reports from day one.

None of "the veterans" could post it, since that would be outside our given mandates.
Triad politics is challenging, as factions cannot usurp other factions mandates, so we had to keep the lines clean.

But we did not expect any but catty remarks, so that's ok, we were prepared for it, actually surprised they did not come sooner. Negative campaigning only won't earn any points, as there is more to this game than just that.

Also, you cannot build a platform on blame, and blame only, as well as hanging out individuals, the Tribals must look into their core, and see what they can offer, that not only meet Traditional criteria, but also Factional interests.

Triad has now advanced even farther, and will now, with more cities in play, offer more room for collective decision-making, as we now got more to decide with.

If I understand correctly, all you need for a rebellion to occur is 3 people in support of it, right? Beyond that, you then need a majority of voters to support it to bring about a PF re-ellection, right? So, it would seem that there are as of this posting, only 19 of 45 in support of the rebellion, therefore there is no re-ellection, unless prior to poll closing 3 more support the rebellion and no one else opposes?

The three players supported it, you can guarantee they are some of the three original votes of the 19, so no double votes please.

The majority of players (inside the Coalition) knew what really happened, so blaming veterans in the faction won't do, I called for instruction threads and reports from day one.

None of "the veterans" could post it, since that would be outside our given mandates.
Triad politics is challenging, as factions cannot usurp other factions mandates, so we had to keep the lines clean.

But we did not expect any but catty remarks, so that's ok, we were prepared for it, actually surprised they did not come sooner. Negative campaigning only won't earn any points, as there is more to this game than just that.

Also, you cannot build a platform on blame, and blame only, as well as hanging out individuals, the Tribals must look into their core, and see what they can offer, that not only meet Traditional criteria, but also Factional interests.

Triad has now advanced even farther, and will now, with more cities in play, offer more room for collective decision-making, as we now got more to decide with.
Of course the Triad has advanced - when you set the standard low, you cannot go higher.

The Tribal Faction has worked towards improving overall communication and discussions, but we've been shot down time and again. We've heard things like "It's our decision, so we don't care what you think" and "That's up to <Faction>, so they'll make the call" on too many issues. That's where the negativity has started - from the Triad stepping on the voices they don't want to hear.

The votes here are showing a strong erosion of support for the Triad Coalition. The policies of the Triad of exclusion, derision and division have driven people away from the Triad, towards another system. During this rebellion, all we heard from the Triad was blaming others for the problems, desperate attempts to remain in power, but never actual fixes and solutions. We've gotten promises, but not delivery.

The source of this rebellion and the dissention within the citizens does not lie with an outsider, but with the failures of the Triad Coalition. The winds of change are obvious, and should be ignored only by the foolish.

-- Ravensfire

I checked back at the first prime faction voting


It was 24 for triad
17 distrubted between Trabla council and Timus
this is a +7 for triad

The current rebellion vote is +6 for triad

An erosion of one vote. Which does not sound like a huge drop off

Ya, the first election was a close aswell

I don't see a big change in the vote either way, and neither side can be especially comfortable with the result.

It's a numbers game, and I am starting to think that this may be a large reason for the relative lack of activity lately. The Triad is the only force that can take the Triad down. They are over 50% of the active rolls and as long as they remain loyal, they are unbeatable in any election format, unless coallitions of this size are outlawed...which is remarkably undemocratic, lol...We could try to restrict the size of factions but that too would not necessarily solve the problem.

What to do...45% wants a revolution, 55% are in the PF coallition that apparently wants to stick together...deadlock.

A rule change proposal for after this term could force a rebellion when ever at least 40% of the population wants one, say at the confedence vote (mid-term)?

As we get more civics, more options will be unlocked and the triad will become obsolete. Coalitions like the Triad never last forever...

Also the triad has threew groups whose goals will not always be commen, so when things diverge then other factions can try to pull parts of the triad away. I also expect a major resuffling when we get more civic options.


I hope people do not continue along lines made at the start of the game. I would love to see members of the tribal and the other factions become parts of ruling factions in the future and ruling members diposed. That would be much more fun than one group ruling thisgs all the way through

I totally agree with Blastoid, this is also what I like about Civ games: The shifting of powers between nations. (not that this always happens in my games, unfortunately).

This poll has really gone a long way in two days. One day one everyone was frustrated and angry about a rebellion, now everyone has cooled down alot.

As I see it, ther is a 20% chance the rebellion will succeed, and a 90% chance that in a week or two there will be another rebellion if this one fails.(Probably not started by me)

In a week or two there will be a scheduled PF election Vandal Warlord ;) .

I think you rebels should wait till the next election on may 5th, i know you can't accept majority rule, but we have turnsets to finish

Yeah:) by then we'll have gone 100+ turns!

I agree with Ballazic. I'm in favour of the coming elections. The turnsets, when finished, will increase our power greatly. If we stop, the Triad's goal of three cities (a very good plan) will probably be stopped. The rebellion is, in the end, simply a way to get power. If you wait, the game will be well developed to give even more power.

Of course, you might want to take over now, and continue their plan, but it will make the Rebellion pointless. I'm in favour of waiting for the election, unless the Rebel's patform is amazing.

As I see it, the rebellionthere is a 20% chance the rebellion will succeed

Rex, I personally have not see the platform, so I cannot tell you how good the platform is.

Speaking of which I need to PM Duke.

I voted for removal even though due to RL issues I haven't kept up at all.

I voted for removal also, i have little faith in the ruling coalition whilst their PR abilities leave little to be desired.

The Triad's 3 cities have been founded. I'm not sure I agree with one of the positions, but I guess it's for the responsible faction to make their own choices. They have also reached their minimum 50 turns. Technically the upcoming session doesn't need to be done under Triad rule, though it might be more efficient to do the planning and the session concurrently.

No need to wait till the 5th for a PF election, we actually have more than enough time to poll on the traditional DG schedule.

As I see it, ther is a 20% chance the rebellion will succeed, and a 90% chance that in a week or two there will be another rebellion if this one fails.(Probably not started by me)

The succes of a rebellion has nothing to do with chance. It's not like people are going to roll a dice to decide on what to vote. :lol:

Well, I suggest we all post Prime Faction Platforms within Friday evening, debate them in the weekend, allow NZL to do his last playsession (his first actually), then post elections on Monday, that is the most tidy way to do it.

I know Triad is unpopular among some Civ3 demogame experts, judging from posts and demographics, but that's also a healthy sign, that new players are interested and not yet scared away by the ancient codes, abbreviations, references, ingrained opinions and habits shaped by some more traditionally oriented demogame players. Renewal and modernization is also a must when we talk about the novel Civ4 BTS game.

I also see that we got a few "bosses" around that says the Triad players are doing stupid and unnecessary things, and be sure that the whole lot of these would love to run the game alone unchallenged, or make us pray to them for counsel for survival.

I am not even calling the shots here, but happy the game is vibrant and dynamic.

I am sorry the Triad is in power, but it is something that will remain until we got more interesting opposition factions with more soul, more respect and dedication for roleplay (not just the lip-service that they wont "try to get in the way") and a different take on it. Otherwise we could always all join some succession game.

And the Rebellion has offcialy failed.Heh. It was a good run. Thank You all who supprted the Rebellion!

Excuse me I need to RP this.

I would not say that the rebellion has failed Vandal. The way the Triad rules has changed a lot, and the discussion and RP involved has re-energised the game. I would say your rebellion has been very successful, even if not how you thought it would

Yeah, maybe it did.

It surely was a wake up call.

I see it as a motivational speach made by Vandal in Ice2k4's pub that sparked a fire of sorts as the men and women there listened to someone who had the courage to voice a sentiment that echoed in their own souls. The people in the pub began yelling and shouting and then agreeing to much of what Vandal had to say, and in no time flat, a riot spilled out of the pub and into the streets. Soon, neighbors were collecting neighbors throughout Arete. The Triad leadership barely had time to form up, thanks to a couple loyal members of the Triad who were witnesses to the event in the Pub. By late in the next morning, a huge crowd had gathered outside of Arete's Palace, clammering for change and shouting of rebellion!

Provo left the Palace to greet the people...to stall them while Shattered, NZL, Aluminum Knight and many of the Triad loyalists met to try and answer the concerns of the people. A few people left the mob to approach Provo. Vandal and Joe Harker were the most outspoken and Joe Harker became the leader, supported by several outspoken critics and respected Veterans.

Inside, Shattered stepped down from his leadership role in the Phylosopher's faction, and Ballazic took the lead. Many in the Triad saw the wisdom in immediately answering some of the chief charges, and at least opening themselves up to working through issues that would need some additional planning.

The Triad's response was quick, and a letter was given to Provo, who gave it to Joe Harker and the other leaders of the rebellion.

The Triad agreed to a new ellection on May 5th, and they agreed to immediate change their practices with regard to turn session planning, and to be more open and communicative to the people.

Although Rebellion had not totally replaced the leadership of Arete, it had changed much and reinvigurated the masses. The first government of Arete had not failed, but it was seriously damaged, but in the process it did show allot of adaptability and the people still won on many accounts.

Vandal Warlord's name is now carved in stone on the front steps of the Aretan Palace. "We will either find a way, or make one! Vandal Warlord circa 2400BC." As the first leader of a rebellion, he found a way to get change happening.

(That's my interpretation anyway more of a massive riot that almost broke into a bloody coup.)

I see it as a motivational speach made by Vandal in Ice2k4's pub that sparked a fire of sorts as the men and women there listened to someone who had the courage to voice a sentiment that echoed in their own souls. The people in the pub began yelling and shouting and then agreeing to much of what Vandal had to say, and in no time flat, a riot spilled out of the pub and into the streets. Soon, neighbors were collecting neighbors throughout Arete. The Triad leadership barely had time to form up, thanks to a couple loyal members of the Triad who were witnesses to the event in the Pub. By late in the next morning, a huge crowd had gathered outside of Arete's Palace, clammering for change and shouting of rebellion!

Provo left the Palace to greet the people...to stall them while Shattered, NZL, Aluminum Knight and many of the Triad loyalists met to try and answer the concerns of the people. A few people left the mob to approach Provo. Vandal and Joe Harker were the most outspoken and Joe Harker became the leader, supported by several outspoken critics and respected Veterans.

Inside, Shattered stepped down from his leadership role in the Phylosopher's faction, and Ballazic took the lead. Many in the Triad saw the wisdom in immediately answering some of the chief charges, and at least opening themselves up to working through issues that would need some additional planning.

The Triad's response was quick, and a letter was given to Provo, who gave it to Joe Harker and the other leaders of the rebellion.

The Triad agreed to a new ellection on May 5th, and they agreed to immediate change their practices with regard to turn session planning, and to be more open and communicative to the people.

Although Rebellion had not totally replaced the leadership of Arete, it had changed much and reinvigurated the masses. The first government of Arete had not failed, but it was seriously damaged, but in the process it did show allot of adaptability and the people still won on many accounts.

Vandal Warlord's name is now carved in stone on the front steps of the Aretan Palace. "We will either find a way, or make one! Vandal Warlord circa 2400BC." As the first leader of a rebellion, he found a way to get change happening.

(That's my interpretation anyway more of a massive riot that almost broke into a bloody coup.)

Wow! There is an RP version of the Rebellion on the forum, The first rebellion of Arete.

kwp confirms his top roleplay award win :) good job!

Indeed the Triad Leaders halted their decadent parties [they were fun though], divided some of the fatty pork and fish food among the masses and ordered the Yassan and Sahashuna women of pleasure to put their clothes back on.

...Because The Consulate had work to do.

Nice writing Kwarriorpoet. Keep it up.


But 48 people in a poll. That's hilarious. Reminds me of the Chieftess DGs, where they would just keep pouring people in till they won. Too much. :D