Discuss here for each city separately what we could build in each city.

This OP will be updated and together with the other Turnsession 5 Discussion threads boil down to the Turnsession 5 instruction thread, about 48 hrs prior to Turnsession 5

Current situation:

Arete: Horse Archer [2 Turns left]
New Giruvegan: nothing
Warlord City: Monument [13 Turns left]

Arete Legion

[a second Horse Archer], Archer, Settler, Galley, Lighthouse, Great Lighthouse


New Giruvegan Faith

Worker, Monument, Library?...


Warlord City Warlords

Barracks, Archer, Horse Archer, Stable, units..


4th City

Archer, Monument, ...

Arete should build horseman archer (complete one being made) and then build archer and settler for fourth city, before galley, Lighthouse and possibly Great Lighthouse. (I think we need to map that foreign power near us west of the scout).
New Giruvegan needs worker, then monument
Warlord City should build barracks, archer and then stable

I think both Arete and New Giruvegan should consider wonders, to leverage our Great People advantage in Philosophical trait.

Warlord City will produce the needed troops for the war with Spain.

The Core Vision here is Warlord City as a military production city, Arete for our oceanic window and coastal development, Faith City for wonders and religious/cultural buildings and finally the fourth city for various purposes.

Warlord City should build barracks- archer-horse archer, we need them soon, we do not need them double promoted. Also I would suggest that Arete produce another Horse Archer before it starts readying to settle a 4th city

On wonders, I think it's better to have them in a single city than split the way GP works.

On the military unit in the capital before the 4th city; only if that's the escort for the settler. I think our warrior city should be buiding offensive units.

In New Geruvigan why are we building a monument? for simple RP issues? otherwise it strikes me as a very pointless build especially if we're building a library after, we may as well whip out a library in the same space of time. It has longer benefits anyways.

I agree to library , but it has indeed a roleplay aspect, which was the very core of this demogame, to get something different.

Gameplay should trump any RP that is not in the Core rules (Civics). RP should follow gameplay not the other way around.

Yeah, I agree in principle. However, monument got an immediate border expansion boost, which I can see. Yet, Faith must consider here what they really want.

It is hard for me to believe this was done for RP purposes alone. I find monuments so important that I make it a priority to build stonehedge in my personal games. It also gives me a Great Prophet first to build my religions Holy Building. Seeing here that a library is scheduled right after the monument it does seem meaningless as they produce more culture. No one is perfect and our leaders have alot on their plate with gameplay and the coming rebellion. I formally suggest the monument be scrapped and an archer be added after library for the cities defense.

I agree with Lord Civius.

First of all, the library has a question mark, and second: Legion decides what to build in Arete, Faith in NG, and Warlords in WC.
I had hoped for some feedback from Faith already in what they wanted to build, but i don't read anything about that.

Yes, all faction cities themselves decide what to build, that was the entire community building idea here (as opposed to have all gameplayers meddling in all minor decisions), but we need to get the ideas here, or we need to come up with ideas on our own.

as opposed to have all gameplayers meddling in all minor decisions)

Right but all us gameplayers are entitled to our opinion and to express it whenever we feel like. Early decisions are not minor decisions as they affect the entire course of the game.

@NZL i wasn't suggesting you saw it as a given it was going to be next but imo it should be instead of the monument.

Of course, there is freedom of speech allover the plate. But to actually influence, outside giving advise, you need to commit to a key direction of a game, a faction, choose a city to live in etc. Much of the influencing is also done in narratives, roleplaying threads and organization of your support base. Before, in previous demogames, it was all about game-technical advise and to make the other proposed option simply seem inferior to the one view you held. This is an entirely different take on it.

Of course, other demogames have been more showcases, sort of, for veteran players (like the one city challenge they had), but here, we try to invoke "life" into the world, which is hard enough already. This is possibly why some of us are very definitive about the in-game integration of the roleplay aspect, not separation of it.

We are thankful for advise here of course, from all kinds of players, its just that the decision-making in the game are done by the respective citizens etc. So if you for example joined KWPs Arkadia, you could grow that city in cooperative competition with the other cities, for example. This would also reduce your influence in New Giruvegan, Warlord City and Arete for example. We place decision-making mandates to those that actually live in those communities, that is the entire idea of faction cities.

You may consider some players less compatible or competent enough by your standards, and that you disagree with many decisions, but that is the price for a mass simulation like this, with all kind of players. Many are here to be entertained, not trained to some Civ4 BTS professional program for household veterans, so this is a sort of outlet.

I understand that (hence me joining kwarriorpoet faction) but still i am going to give advice and just like in previous demogames i don't expect my adivce to be followed all the time but it needs to be put out incase the person in charge doesn't realise that. As in the case of Alphabet discussion going on now.

Yeah, you were a great asset in the Alphabet discussion, and you convinced us there to prioritize that now. As we now have made technology not a Philosophers Legion issue alone, but one of public decision-making for next session, all players advises are now as valuable as any's. The same applies to declarations of war.

Even in ancient times, leaders had to get public support prior to a war, as well as being subject to internal innovation of new solutions they had no direct control over, which is why war declarations and tech are now public decisions. However, ancient times had neither military operations by committee. Even in 2008, today, they hardly do that, but I assume Freedom of Speech Civic, Universal Suffrage and Emancipation would make military operations subject to that.

Guess we'll just wait for our 1215ad then ;)

You mean the Magna Carta? Or Genghiz Khan taking Moscow?

You mean the Magna Carta? Or Genghiz Khan taking Moscow?

I figure Magna carta would be more apt in this situation. :)

That was still the institution of vassalage and serfdom, a most limited Parliamentarism. :)

That was still the institution of vassalage and serfdom, a most limited Parliamentarism. :)

And yet it was Parliamentarism however small.

Okay, monument might not be the absolute best choice for New Giruvegan, but we need to build it. You might disagree, but gameplay DOES NOT trump roleplay in all situations.

However, I think that this can be a decent decision gameplay-wise if you think about it. We plan on building another archer soon since Prochon will be leaving us and we will need to guard our worker while he improves the land as well as our existing improvements (you can see in the screenshots that there are a lot of barbs lurking around). A library takes longer to build than a monument, delaying our archer, which could be disastrous. Conversely, we'd build an archer first, and miss out on the earlier border pop which would net us the ivory, making it that much later that our happy cap goes up.

That being said, the build order for New Giruvegan is still under consideration. Just know that it will be very hard to convince us not to build a monument ;)

Like it was hard to convince about the quad dye and cow location :)

But this is how it should be, and the beauty of the faction system, that a group that identifies with each other in the game decides on an in-game thing that affects everyone.

Where are we going to put city 4?

I think KWP needs to begin to figure that out right away, now that we may settle his city already next session.

On the monument, I'd suggest finishing it, unless it is very early. Even though it only gets a small amount of culture, it will finish 3 times faster than a library, and we might need to build something else that would interrupt a library build anyway.

I can't give other advice for the city without looking at a save.

I'm almost always against building monuments, but that's just me and the way I play the game. If we've got hammers invested, let's finish it. Otherwise, I'd rethink.

The big question re builds is whether we're going to have an early war with Spain. If we are, all cities should build military for 10/15 turns, and then let's just get the war over with so we don't have to worry about an angry, revengeful enemy on our doorstep. If we're not - and there's so much open land I'm beginning to think we should wait a bit before we begin military action - we might want to think about a wonder or two.

I think we should go for Aesthetics for S Paya and S of Zeus, both requiring gold/ivory for double speeds, which we go. This also fits Protectors of Faith factions interests, since these things do affect gameplay as well (politics impacting gameplay, but still). We plan a war of attrition with HA, such that we get workers, Spain is unable to improve and we get some gold in the process, before we take the death trust.

I think Warlord City will build barracks, archer, then numerous Horse Archers to win the Spanish War. Defenders would be warriors and archers largely, so it looks secure, guarding their copper would eliminate chances for them countering us.

We need to make this war now, due to the culture power of Spain, and to adjust our borders north-south, not worrying about east-west, as New Giruvegan is badly placed as it is in terms of being isolated. I see Arete continuing filling in open land as Warlord City prepares for war.

Lol :crazyeye:. Right now the status quo is all citizens are weiging in on all issues. Sorry NZL I must have overlooked the ?. I made a suggestion which is all anyone can do that is not a decision maker in the Gameplay.

How many Horse Archers do we plan to have when we declare war?

The Arkadian Populist Regime is definitely leaning toward the tile that is 5W1N from capital.

6 Horse Archers and 4 Axemen would be what I would "want" but I think we could start it with just 6 Horse Archers and trail in the Axemen between reinforcements of Horse Archers. We really need to jump on that war if we don't want to face too many Archers and Spearmen.