In this thread u can make requests that will not change the game in any way. I'm thinking mainly on requests like: "I'd like a screenshot of that area" or "I'd like to see a screenshot with the yield display toggled on" etc..

This OP will be updated and together with the other Turnsession 5 Discussion threads boil down to the Turnsession 5 instruction thread, about 48 hrs prior to Turnsession 5

I'm not sure where to request it but i request we switch to slavery immediatly. That monument in warlord city could be whipped quite easily saving a lot of time, whilst a future library could be whipped in new whatever. Whoever came up with that rumour that Lincoln wont trade with us whilst in Slavery is soorly mistaken so i see no other reason to avoid it.

That would be something that changes the game.

Some may argue that civic changes can only be done with a prime faction change.

Despotism (changed to more of a "theocracy" for role-play elements):
Country is ruled by a High Priest and various lower Priests.
Slavery
Free religion

According to the Core rules we must change our civic to Slavery as it is a penalty for Despotism. Unless I have it backwards and we cannot use this civic as a penalty. I can't find where it specifies if you must use or cannot use specific penalty civics. Excuse my ignorance as I was not here for the game rules creation.

Daveshack is indeed right, civic is a Prime Faction reason for change, not a simple game gimmick for the experts. We try to achieve an in-game world simulation, silly as it seems, so other rules apply than HOF, GOTM and succession games.

Can someone clarify the penalty civics for me please?

Penalty civics?

Penalty civics?


Sorry I just read the final draft and the penalty Civics were changed at the end. So disregard the above posts as Slavery is not a penalty for Despo, bureaucracy is. Here is a list of the Penalty Civics for each Gov't Civic.

Faction Government Civics:
Upon creation a faction must chose one of the following government civics. They can not change that civic during the duration of it's life. Any constitution or rules the faction creates must be based off of the government. Following the government are penalty civics. A faction can not make use of the penalty civics (in italics) associated with it's government civic.
Despotism:
bureaucracy
Hereditary Rule:
free religion
Emancipation
Representation:
Slavery
State Property
Police State:
Free Speech
Pacifism
Universal Suffrage:
Vassalage
Theocracy

Yeah, we are not quite there yet.

Daveshack is indeed right, civic is a Prime Faction reason for change, not a simple game gimmick for the experts. We try to achieve an in-game world simulation, silly as it seems, so other rules apply than HOF, GOTM and succession games.

So we're waiting till 5th of May or thereabouts to change? Is this consistent throughout the game for every civic change?

So we're waiting till 5th of May or thereabouts to change? Is this consistent throughout the game for every civic change?


Yeah, this means we will have to have a rebellion to overthrow an existing regime, and locking civic changes to government changes is both "realist", as well as ensuring a steady renewal of leadership in this game.

when new civics come in huge chunks, like after Alphabet, we may well see a lot of upheaval, which fits great in advance of a Prime Faction Election.

There will be State Religion, Organized Religion if we can trade for that and Slavery on the plate. If you have stated all five civics in your platform, including those not researched yet, you may switch to these freely when researched.

Ah ok, so in a way were using the Rhye's model of civic change? i.e. his mod makes the empire unstable if you attempt to use universal suffrage, free speech and state property at the same time?

That is actually a great comparison (with Rhye), and yeah, the forum government should be integrated with the civic change, so change is felt in both the gameworld and forum-world at once, to make the experience more "immersive".

Just to clarify:

Hypothetically, when the new election comes up on the 5th, let's say this scenario occurs: The Triad stays together, so it is really the same government running again, but this time they want to institute Slavery. Is this allowed? We've probably gone over this, but I've forgotten :(

Yeah, but we need to make an entirely new Platform to be elected on, and write in all civics and religions to be chosen, and possibly make the government reflect those religions and civics.

Lord Civius.

Penalty civic means that if we have this government, then we can't have this civic, although why despotism has slavery is a bit weird :dubious:

Despotism only has Bureaucracy, not Slavery, as penalty civic, so please read that closely.

Lord Civius.

Penalty civic means that if we have this government, then we can't have this civic, although why despotism has slavery is a bit weird :dubious:

Thanks Joe but I got Clarity from DaveShacks final draft of the core rules prior to my last post. Originally Slavery was going to be a penalty civic for Despo but it was changed towards the end. I was also confused as there was no clarity as to if the penalty was "you had to use the penalty civic" or "couldn't use the penalty civic" but this was also made clear to me in DS' final draft.

Why can't I be a Beurocratic Despot???

Lol...Ok, this changes everything, I vote for Monarchy after Alphabet, hehe

Back on topic...I request that an Archer->Settler be produced to establish Arkadia in session 5 if possible. My faction is just about decided as to where Arkadia should be founded.

Faction Government Civics
Upon creation a faction must choose one of the following government civics. The chosen government civic must be available in-game for the faction to be eligible to be prime faction*. The faction can not change the government civic choice during the duration of the faction's life. Any constitution or rules the faction creates must be based on the government civic. Following the government are two penalty civics. A faction can not make use of the penalty civics associated with it's government civic.

Despotism (changed to more of a "theocracy" for role-play elements):
Country is ruled by a High Priest and various lower Priests.
Slavery
Free religion
Hereditary Rule
Country is ruled by a King/Queen and various Princes.
Nationhood
Emancipation
Representation:
Country is ruled by an elected senate.
Slavery
State Property
Police State:
Country is ruled by the military.
Free Speech
Pacifism
Universal Suffrage:
Country is ruled directly by the people.
Vassalage
Theocracy

Rebellions
Every 2 weeks the country choses whether to enter anarchy. If the majority of people chose the enter anarchy the current prime faction loses it's spot and a poll goes up to decide which of the opposing factions will take it's spot.

* A faction could choose a government civic which is not yet available in-game as a role-playing vehicle to advocate research or wonder builds to make the desired government avaialble.

According to the above only the Government Civic is unchangeable!!!

So, we should be free to change all other civics, except the Government one during a term, unless we want to change the rules.

Again, I ask why a Despotism cannot be Beurocratic? Wouldn't Free Market or Free Speach make more sense?

According to the above only the Government Civic is unchangeable!!!

So, we should be free to change all other civics, except the Government one during a term, unless we want to change the rules.

Again, I ask why a Despotism cannot be Beurocratic? Wouldn't Free Market or Free Speach make more sense?

That is not the final draft in the core rules (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=6659747&postcount=1). So we can stick with slavery. Thats what my original post was about but I went fishing and found the final draft in a sticky in the Rules sub-forum.

I was not here for the making of the rules so someone else would have to give you an answer about the penaltys chosen.

Actually it only mentions "Upon creation a faction must chose one of the following government civics. They can not change that civic during the duration of it's life.", nothing about not switching civics in other areas.

Again, I ask why a Despotism cannot be Beurocratic? Wouldn't Free Market or Free Speach make more sense
How would a Despotism be Bearucratic?? Isn't the definition of a Despotism mean that basically one person makes the decisions. This is pretty much the opposite of a Bearucratic government, in which there are many positions and hoops to jump through to get things done.

Actually it only mentions "Upon creation a faction must chose one of the following government civics. They can not change that civic during the duration of it's life.", nothing about not switching civics in other areas.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say. Thank you!

Yes, that's what I was trying to say. Thank you!

Your're Welcome! :)

Should we put this up for discussion, to avoid further confusion, or are we all happy about changing other civics, other than the government ones?

How would a Despotism be Bearucratic?? Isn't the definition of a Despotism mean that basically one person makes the decisions. This is pretty much the opposite of a Bearucratic government, in which there are many positions and hoops to jump through to get things done.

Was Hitler a Despot or the Head of a Police State? Napolean? Musalini? Chavez? Hussein? Beuraucracies can be used for good or evil and most Beuraucracies are designed to support the government and facilitate the administration of affairs so those in power can devote their time to "other" matters.

Are emperors members of a Despotic Regime or of a Hereditary Regime?

A despot doesn't have to make all of the decisions. In fact, a despot uses his absolute power to make sure his/her will is done. Does a Despot declare how the sewers should be built or do they simply say to their magistrates to keep the city clean?

Power does not occur in a vaccuum it is supported by others who share in the power by also being connected to it. There are people in charge of people, who keep the empire running. The Despot is in charge of the people who are in charge of the people, and on a whim can if they want, go to the lowest level and dictate change, but for the most part, why soil yourself with such decisions?

Your're Welcome! :)

Should we put this up for discussion, to avoid further confusion, or are we all happy about changing other civics, other than the government ones?

I think our community needs clarification. I would propose that your government civic should be wrote in stone as written in the faction ruleset. However, your platform should state "will adopt slavery, beuraucracy, etc..." when the tech is available. Slavery is huge though, but that could just be my Judeo-Christian upbringing. Perhaps in other cultures, some forms of slavery are permitted or at least tollerated...although I admit I don't know of any such cultures personally.

Perhaps a rule change is in order. Perhaps civics other than the government civic should require a "confidence vote" to determine whether people wanted a rebellion prior to the civic change.

So...yes, I think this needs to be discussed.

Was Hitler a Despot or the Head of a Police State? Napolean? Musalini? Chavez? Hussein? Beuraucracies can be used for good or evil and most Beuraucracies are designed to support the government and facilitate the administration of affairs so those in power can devote their time to "other" matters.

Are emperors members of a Despotic Regime or of a Hereditary Regime?

A despot doesn't have to make all of the decisions. In fact, a despot uses his absolute power to make sure his/her will is done. Does a Despot declare how the sewers should be built or do they simply say to their magistrates to keep the city clean?

Power does not occur in a vaccuum it is supported by others who share in the power by also being connected to it. There are people in charge of people, who keep the empire running. The Despot is in charge of the people who are in charge of the people, and on a whim can if they want, go to the lowest level and dictate change, but for the most part, why soil yourself with such decisions?

Well in quite a few of them cases- Hitler for instance, you could argue that Hitler had power over nothing and just a front man.

I agree we need clarity. Changing a Gov't Civic requires a new Prime Faction (RP Govt). All other Civics should be controlled by a Despotism Faction. Later Prime Factions with more democratic principles like Representation may choose a different path. My main point is the Prime Factions Gov't type should dictate such things.IMHO.