At the Mod's suggestion, this thread is here to act as a general discussion forum for the tournament, and for running scores to be posted.

This should help clear the main game threads for actual AARs and save game posts.

For assistance in sending diplomatic notes, the players' email addresses are:

Patient: netdesignNOSPAM@zoom.co.uk
Case: nick_dowlingNOSPAM@hotmail.com
Sas: sastokkeNOSPAM@broadpark.no
Voltar: voltariiNOSPAM@yahoo.com
Henrik: henrik.lohmanderNOSPAM@telia.com
Darius: gall0278NOSPAM@umn.edu
FiGu: figu01NOSPAM@msn.com
Steve: conmcb25@bluemarble.net (WinterFritz has been susbstituted by him)

For ease in setting up online trading, the players' AIM handles are:

Patient: Patient1815
Case: NickDowling10
Diatribe:wgreiter111

Others' will be added as they make them available to me, or post them on THIS thread.

(Please everyone who wants to deal online supply an AIM userid, rather than (or as well as) ICQ or MSN.)

For LazyCiv users, a list of the cities they must rename before each save so that the events work properly:

Madrid (6)
Hannover (3)
Brunswick (2)
Hamburg (3)
Constantinople
British India 9
Saragosa
Burgos
Salamanca
Valencia (2)
Seville (2)
Cork
Derry
Paris (15)
Vienna (10)
Berlin (9)
London (10)

A couple of points I should make generally.

All competitors have the new version of Bonaparte (ver 2g). This can be downloaded from my web site (http://pages.zoom.co.uk/netdesign/scenarios.htm) by anyone who wants the latest and greatest...;) Yeah, I know it says ver 2f on the web page and in the zip file, but believe me, it is version 2g. (I have a problem deleting files from my website at the moment.)

We are playing at Colonel level. This equates to King level I believe, not Prince as I said in my email. This should cause no issues in a PBEM, but anyone please shout if you know differently.

I want happy wonders and improvements to be significant issues for the players.

*shouts*

to quote Henrik and FMk's PBEM quide:
"PBEMs are generally played on the "Prince" difficulty level since it wont give bonuses to the civs which are controlled by AI (this means that units belonging to other civs wont get bonuses when one of the human players is playing his turn)"

Playing on King level probably won't cause any major problems, but I think that we should stick to Prince,

Well, if we do, Voltar and I will need to restart. I want King level, as otherwise the population are hardly ever restless, which changes strategy a lot.

I don't think the quote you give will apply to PBEM games, as the AI does't move when the human player is playing. I see the point in Online MP of course. The PBEM FAQ here says just agree the level, not whet that level should be.

Henrik or FMK, can you confirm this, or otherwise?

However, we haven't exactly gone too far yet, so what are peoples' opinions?

I think that Henrik and FMK's guide is on PBEMs only...

Yes, it is, but I don't see why this would be a problem in a PBEM. However, with the Markus thing, we might have to restart anyway.

However, I would like to consider playing at King level properly. Does anyone know why playing at this level in a PBEM might screw it up? Are these production bonuses, or combat bonuses? If the latter, I totally agree with you Case.

What level are we playing the playtest on? I haven't noticed any problems with it...

Depending on what Henrik says, it may well be that the gameplay benefits of playing on King outweight the problems this causes.

Just as an FYI: In the PBEM Sticky Thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=295785#post295785), Smash seemed to think that they were referring to the size of the production box and food box and that King was the proper level anyway

As Henrik started the playtest game, I guess he would have started on Prince.

We'll ask him when he comes back tomorrow....

ummm I started tourney 1 on Prince...

I'm feeling left out here, no invitation to join the tournament .. :(

Heres I map I modified from the one Case posted on the playtest thread (which is originally the work of Grogthar, IIRC.) This can be modified to show progress in the various games.

I'm also working on a version that has the cities marked it with little territories outlined around each city. This will make new borders easy to draw as cities change hands as well as add a bit of consistency to the different maps.

Could you make the colours a bit darker? That colour scheme hurts my eyes ;) :o [I must be getting old]

'Fritz - thanks for the map. I love the colours! Each umpire can of course chose the colours he best likes.....;)

Voltar - did you start on "Major"level, then? In my game, that is the level that equates to Prince (the third from the top), not "Colonel", as I indicated in my original email.

SAS - your application is being considered...;). If it turned out that someone else (there is only one other being considered) were chosen, would you still be up for consideration as first-call subsitute if someone fell by the wayside?

Yah patient I started on the third dif Prince. If you says it's Major then thats what it is. I'm sorry but I was told to always start games on Prince...

I am very happy to announce a replacement for our recent drop-out.

Sas will be taking Markus's place on the game roster. I expect he will need a day or two to get adjusted to the most recent copy of the game (which I will be sending him soon, along with the email introducing house rules etc.).

Therefore, we should try to kick off around Monday next week. Having said that, the beauty of this tournament is that everyone can play at their own pace. If you want to start earlier, please do.

Voltar says he has started the game at Prince level, so one of us will have to change. Just in case King level introduces some bias in combat, I shall redo my turn in Game #2. (Voltar, you will need to play again after me.)

Just to clarify, Prince level is the third option down the list. In my game, this should be "Major". Please email me if unsure, because we want all of these games to start off identically.

The one that some call...."Tim",

Thanks for the info. Yes, I suspect King level would be OK, but as long as we are all agreed, that is the main thing. I suspect people would be happier at Prince (both within and outside the game ;)), so I will replay my turn.

(BTW, what IS your favourite colour?)

:D

Thanks for letting me join the tournament.

And you're right, i need a day or so to get used to the changes. The scenario looks great though :)

Here's a slightly imporved version of Patients spreadsheet. I've added a column to keep track of the percentage change in nation's victory points.

Sas, Waku, Alcibiaties and Voltar: could you please send me your email addresses, so that we can negotiate? I'm at winterfritz_21@hotmail.com :)

Alternately, perhaps everyone should post their emails on this thread.

I am happy to post my email:

netdesign@zoom.co.uk

If all others are happy, I will top this thread with the full list. Otherwise, please be sure you have sent your email to all other competitors/allies.

Here's mine: nick_dowling@hotmail.com

I also have MSN messenger [which just uses that email adress] and AIM, where my screen name is NickDowling10

My mail adress is:

Tordenskiold@Historic-Battles.com

Email: henrik.lohmander@telia.com
AIM: TrinTragulahel

About the difficultry level:
When I joined the pbem world it was generaly considered that Prince was the only level where the AI (absent players) and the human player where on par (suposedly there IS combat bonuses for the AI otherwise) however recently other people have been stating otherwise (namely that king is the one where the AI and Human aren't given any bonuses).

One thing to note about the easier difficulty levels is that the AI will be more friendly which is nice when trying to sign treaties with other players AIs...

My suggestion is that we go with Prince.

voltarii@yahoo.com

Started game 5 at prince difficulty...

Yup, Prince it is. All of you have been mailed to that effect, and all started games are at that level.

I have just been informed Alcibiaties is away for 15 days on holiday. Lucky bloke!

This is what the umpires are for. The umpire for each game should pretend to be Alcibiaties. They should play as passively as possible, and if not at war with anyone, carry out no attacks at all.

They should enter into no diplomacy on Alcibiaties' behalf.

At this stage of the game, it should be easy enough, even without instructions from Alcibiaties.

I shall play the Spanish move in Game #1, if that game moves up to the Spanish turn before Alcibiaties gets back.

As the umpire of Bonaparte Game 4 (where it's Chris/Alcibiaties turn) I need to know wether attacks on barbarian cities are ok or not?

You can contact me thru:

email: mpalma@mail.ono.es
aim: ManoloWaku
msn: mpalma@mail.ono.es (yes, same than above ;))
icq: 137665009


good luck

Henrik,

I think it's safest if you DON'T attack. Only attack where independents are threatening Chris's resources or troops, where it is clear he WOULD attack.

On move 1 there shouldn't be much to do anyway. When Chris is back, we will get the ground rules for this discussed properly.

Thanks for pointing out that my turn order has got the Spanish and Swedish the wrong way around. I have edited all the threads to show the correct order. Please everyone change your spreadsheets to reflect this, and note who you now play after may have changed.

Thanks for the mail info Waku.

John

The notes section in that file is excelent btw, I would never be able to keep track all the alliances, and such witout it ;o

Yeah - it's confusing enough as it is! (Especially when I get the turn order wrong on the scenario I designed myself!)

:o :o :o

Sorry, chaps..:(

Did anyone miss their turn as a result of the incorrect order of play?

Oh, can i ask one thing ofall of you. Can yall try and keep all of your games moving so we don't have threads floating around the forum, just sitting there....
Thanks

Easier said then done. I practically always play my turn within 12 hrs. But many people are busy and disappear for a day or two. With 7 people, I have a feeling it's gonna to be quite difficult.

Yeah. Games 2, 7, 8 and 4 are moving OK. The others are being delayed by absentees. We are trying to get the umpires to take over, but it isn't easy.

Also, there is much diplomacy going on. After a few turns things should settle down into a routine.

Please bear with us!

John

Just to give everyone a bit of warning, I'm going up to Sydney this weekend and won't be able to play any of my turns between Friday and Monday.

Nick,

That's cool. Thanks for the warning. ;)

Just a quick note to Sun Tzu and others who may be following the tournament.

At least 3 players are on holiday at the moment, so not much will happen for a week or so.

After then, things should speed up.

I'm back from sunny (and warm) Sydney.

And I have returned as well.

OK, first, I can be reached at aoa@civfanatics.net

Or you can AIM me, yankee62chris.

Now I need to be brought up to speed on exactly what is going on, first, I use very basic programs, for example, I cannot open the attachement Case posted, so avoid things like word and powerpoint and such, if you make such things, just stick it on word pad!

I need to know turn order and such, I have had talks with several players already concerning strategy, and made several agreements.

AoA,

Welcome back. Hope you had a good time....

The turn order for each game is posted as the first post on each Thread.

If you can't read the excel speadsheet I did (and that Case modified), there is no real text equivalent. I have exported it as a web page, which looks like this:

That I could read, thanks.

I think now I can discuss those proposals you had the bad form to send me while I was at sea! :p

I've been suffering email problems for the last week with the result that many emails have either been lost in cyberspace or have been delivered several days after they were sent.

This problem *seems* to be fixed now, so if you've sent me a message which I havn't responded to can you please resend it?

AoA: Can you respond to the PMs I sent you?

Case,

I'm sure you have responded to all the mails I have sent. No more action required from you as far as I am concerned.

BTW, I don't think we need to meet online for Stralsund for a bit...

BTW, I don't think we need to meet online for Stralsund for a bit...

OK - there's no hurry.

Is there any rule about what you should and should not write in the report from your round?

Some players dont post anything, and some (like myself) post everything worth mentioning. It's fustrating to guess what my opponents have done in theire round...:mad:

EDIT: In my opinion, failure to report relevant information is borderline cheating. Especially in a tournament.

sas

I sometimes write long posts, and sometimes I don't.
When nothing happened during your turn apart from the translocation of a few units there really isn't a lot to write about (unless there is some diplomacy going on that isn't too secret to post about).

Originally posted by Henrik
I sometimes write long posts, and sometimes I don't.
When nothing happened during your turn apart from the translocation of a few units there really isn't a lot to write about (unless there is some diplomacy going on that isn't too secret to post about).

If nothing worth mentioning is done in your round, you should say to in your post. In that way you at least tell people that you didnt do anything of importanse.

Sas has a point.

No-one need write stuff just to fill up the page, or about secret diplomacy, but any combats, cities taken, independent moves observed, or trade routes established, should be reported.

Also any events triggered, as not everyone will see these, but may well be affected by them.

In the past, everyone I have played with has done this, but recently some posts have become rather short or cryptic. I don't want to make this a formal rule, and I wouldn't call it cheating, but I think it is only good manners.

And I'm sure you are all good mannered people, aren't you?

;)

I've posted about thesse things in the past and I'll continue to do so, if I didn't mention taking any cities in my post you can be assured I didn't Sas ;)

Some bad news, my home PC is down, and I'm forced to use my lap top to post, I cannot play a single turn till sunday at the very earlest.

Sorry guys. :(

OK, Chris. As we've already had the umpires sub for you recently, we won't do so again this time.

We shall have to be patient (never my strongpoint, despite my nick!)

Almost all the games are frozen now, waiting for AoA. However, Game #2 should still be OK as he is umpire in that one.

It is the turn of the evil Russian hegemon to move now....;)

Is anyone other then AoA missing? Things have gotten rather slow...

I'll try to be more "explanatory" from now on

Thanks, Waku...

:goodjob:

I think it's AoA to move in about every single game now (apart from #2). It is Winterfritz to move in that one. Oh, and #8, which I should be playing. I'll do that now - and then it's AoA.

If he (AoA) still has problems at the start of next week, I'll get his agreement to press on with umpires. I am reluctant to do this, because we have just done it to him, and he's hardly made any of his own moves yet!

However, it may need to be done, because any delay over a week really requires a sub or the umpire to step in. For example, I am away from 16th September to 2nd October, and I will certainly arrange subs for that period. If I fail, the umpires will play for me, on the usual basis of no fighting, no diplomacy. If I am in any wars, the other party should refrain from attacks on me and vice versa.

Of course, with a full sub, the game is played as usual.

I'm glad to announce AoA has fixed his PC and is playing all his moves right now.

Things should start to move again quite nicely.

Please be nice to him and send him your diplomacy again, in each game. A lot of his old info was lost....

John

Originally posted by Patient English
It is the turn of the evil Russian hegemon to move now....;)

Quiet, limey :mwaha:

;)

As you all know, this tournament is to be decided by a Grand Prix (sorta) points system, based on who wins each individual game. A win is defined as the greatest PERCENTAGE increase in finishing VPs over starting VPs. (All cities are one VP, unless they are one of the cities I originally gave a higher VP number - shown in brackets). If a city is destroyed, a one-VP city can be created there, or elsewhere in the game. If you do this, please post the fact on you after-action-report, as it won't show on the other players' maps.

I also think there should be a prize (well, the award of a title, anyway), to the player who does best with each nation. This is not relevant to the tournament rankings, but if you are only doing (relatively) well in one game, then it provides an incentive to go all out.

I originally wanted the player with the most "best result for <<insert name of nation here>>" victories to be the overall winner, but that would mean we had to wait for the last turn of the slowest game before we had any results.

For example, the British have a hard task increasing their VPs, while the Russians and Spanish (and the French) have an easier time of it.

I think it unlikely that a player taking the British or the Swedes will win any game they are in, but still may play excellently for a fourth place or something.

If you all agree, there will be a subsidiary competition for "Best Brit", "Best Froggie" and so on. If you have better titles than that - please suggest them.

Still having PC problems guys, only my (non-Civ-2 playing) laptop is available, so i have to wait till next week to continue.

sorry all.

I would ask that we all agree NOT to use LazyCiv. It has some untested features, and there is apparently scope to muck up other players' positions if you are careless. From the ReadMe file....

Lazyciv is a utility program for restoring your city production in a civ 2 PBEM game. You must have civilization II multiplayer edition (MPE) for it to work.

In your first turn of playing a PBEM game, activate Lazyciv anytime
before the end of your turn. This will record your production
to the last 2 places of your city names. You'll see weird characters
in cities with long names, that is a normal Phenomenom.

In subsequent turns, make sure you activate Lazyciv when you have selected your civ but haven't started playing. i.e., you activate Lazyciv when you select gender or name for your civ leader. Doing it too early or too late, you may not get what you want, and may mess up with other player's production.

New features in version 3:
you can now copy production items from the end of your last turn and paste it to the loaded game before starting the current turn. First, load the old saved game and launch Lazyciv, then press the "copy" button once. Then, without quitting Lazyciv and MPE, load the new saved game. Then use the "paste" button to finish the job. Caution: again you need a perfect timing -- that is, you need to press the "paste" button when you select gender or name for your civ leader.

Also, if the AI changed your production item from non-wonder to wonder, the program will recover your old production item AND double your accrued shields to cover your loss. I don't have any experience in AI changing production to wonder, so this feature is untested.

Also, I hate what it does to long city names...;) If some of us are using it, and some not, it may also give some an unfair advantage. From what I read about it, it should be simple enough just to refrain from using it - it won't cause continuity problems for people who have been using it in the past.

OK? Can you please post your agreement (or otherwise) in this thread?

Actually, I'd argue the exact opposite - IMO everyone should use Lazyciv. If everybody uses the 'cut and paste' method at the start of each turn then there will be no adverse effects on anybody elese production (as they will restore it when their turn comes up).

I make this point because Lazyciv is vital when playing as the French. John, I take it that you've never had the AI screw with your production? When it does so you can lose literally months of production and have your entire strategy destroyed!

I have to agree with Case on this one. If the AI changes your production, in many cases the game is over for that player. After all you loose half your shields when the AI changes from unit production to improvements and vise versa.

In my limited time playing PBEM games, this have happended to me two times before i started using Lazyciv. In both cases i got to play my round again. If i hadnt, those games would have been allmost ruined.

Well, all I can say is that in over a year of PBEM, I have never had it (the AI changing production when a city falls) happen once to me. And believe me - I have lost plenty of cities in my time!

This is of course playing in my own scenarios - I have no idea if it happens more frequently in other designer's games. Have you guys had problems in my scenarios before?

However, maybe everyone could post their opinions and we will take a vote. If the majority says "LazyCiv", we will all use it. If the majority says "no LazyCiv" none of us will use it. OK?

I say no to lazy civ since no matter the outcome, I wont be able to use it (its not for Mac) :(

I must support LazyCiv. What happens in a PBEM (to me at least) is when my cities are attacked by either computer or player the AI takes over my civ and changes production (while the other player is moving). So when I'm back LazyCiv fixes that problem, and reverts my production to as I left it.

OK, the voting is 3:2 in favour of LC so far....

I would ask you all - have you ever had production in Bonaparte II screwed up by the AI in this way? I have been PBEM-ing it for months now, and never have.

However, I would make one further argument:

We should perhaps not be so worried if the AI does change production occasionally. I imagine it is annoying if happens to you, but it is the same for everyone AND it also adds a random factor into the game that can only help its realism. Not even Napoleon himself could control the actions of his Marshals all the time - let alone his Foreign Minister or other civilian officials.

We should not be afraid to allow the confusions of war to be represented! It all depends on how you like to think about it....

:king:

Patient maybe you had no problems because someone elses LazyCiv was fixing your production. But sometimes when production messes up it can have grave reprecussions.

I would ask you all - have you ever had production in Bonaparte II screwed up by the AI in this way?

Yes. The AI regularly screws with French producution. John, trust me on this, having it happen to you can be a fatal blow. When given a chance, the AI loves to convert nearly complete horse artillery into musketers, and 3 deckers into wonders, etc.

OK. Well, we'll wait for the rest of the votes to come in anyway.

In the meantime, I better start working out how to use this LazyCiv thing just in case....

:(

BTW, I've never noticed lazyciv cause problems other then screwing with city names. As long as everyone fixes their city names each turns (or at least the ones which trigger events ;) ) things should be fine

OK, well that is reassuring. As you say, city names must be fixed - especially the events-related ones. If we use LazyCiv, this must be a hard and fast rule, and one should reject any save passed to one that has corrupted names in it.

Again whatever is decided I will be unable to use Lazy Civ, as long as my production isn't affected I don't have a problem with others using it tough.

What's the latest with AoA/Chris? Are his computer problems over?

I'm afraid AoA has posted at 'Poly two days ago (I have been away this weekend) to say he is STILL having PC problems, and cannot even post here at CFC at the moment.

I have PM'ed him at 'Poly and emailed him at both of his addresses to ask what he would prefer - to let the umpires play for him again, or to find a semi-permanent sub until he is sorted out.

I will give him 24 hours to reply. I'm afraid if he has not got back to me by then, I will have to ask the umpires to step in again.

We cannot play that way for long, so if it comes to that we will have to find a semi-permanent sub if he can't. Anyway, we will tackle that hurdle if we come to it.

Well, got most of them played, still have to do 7 and 8, but that is for tommorow, at least we are moving now.

Thanks Chris! :)

And don't forget Game #1.....

Originally posted by Case
BTW, I've never noticed lazyciv cause problems other then screwing with city names. As long as everyone fixes their city names each turns (or at least the ones which trigger events ;) ) things should be fine

May I suggest that you fix the problem from the scenario's side? For any city with events, simply give the city a shorter (12 chars or less) name in both the scenario and the event.txt file.

Unfortunately, the scenario has already begun, the events are compiled with the saves, so this would not work. Thanks for trying to help, anyway.

Also, I did not design the scenario to be LazyCiv compatible, and LazyCiv was not mentioned by anybody at the beginning. (I was unaware of its existence then.)

The only way to fix this now is to either:

a) Not to use LazyCiv
b) Remember to correct all the corrupted city names (or at least the events-sensitive ones) EVERY move, before you save.

By the way, AoA, you forgot to do this after your last saves. (Fair enough, you may not have been up to date with this thread after your recent problems.) However, if we decide to use LazyCiv, I will reject any save posted for me that has corrupted names in the events-sensitive cities in future.

To make it easy for eveyone, I will post a list of such cities on post #1 of this thread in a few hours. You can see them yourselves from the events file if anyone is in a hurry to post.

To show solidarity with Henrik (and because I can't be bothered to correct all those city names and I've never seen the AI behaviour that LC is supposed to correct), I will not be using LC myself in any event.

OK, here's the list, also posted at the top of this thread for quick reference.

For LazyCiv users, a list of the cities they must rename before each save so that the events work properly:

Madrid (6)
Hannover (3)
Brunswick (2)
Hamburg (3)
Constantinople
British India 9
Saragosa
Burgos
Salamanca
Valencia (2)
Seville (2)
Cork
Derry
Paris (15)
Vienna (10)
Berlin (9)
London (10)

It is important to get the numbers in brackets right, as well as the existence or absence of those brackets....

John, AFIK Lazyciv doesn't confine it's city renaming to the cities of the active player. As such, the player simply cannot repair all the damage caused as they cannot change the names of all the other cities.

In that case, we have to agree to not to use LazyCiv at all, or forgo most of the city-triggered events.

The Fall of London, Berlin, Vienna, British India, Paris, Hamburg, Brunswick and Hannover, are important to the balance of the game.

Can we not just agree not to use the damned thing? It is equally fair (or unfair) on all of us. OK, some micro-management might be derailed occasionally, but with so many units and cities it's hardly likely to be the cause of a nation's defeat...

This scenario (and this tournament in particular) was set up with specific rules, and with everybody knowing the score. LazyCiv was definitely NOT mentioned. It is not ideal for the AI to screw with your production, but I fail to see how this makes the game unplayable. Of course, this might be because I have never seen it happen. ;)

This argument could go round in circles for ever. Please can those who have not yet voted about LazyCiv please do so.

That vote will determine whether we lose the odd production queue or have the events messed up.

Patient English, there is a'delevent' program in your civ2 directory and you can use it to replace existing events with a new one easily. Also keep in mind that any city with name length 12 chars or less will not be affected by Lazyciv. From your list there are only 3 cities have long names, so you only need to take care of those 3.

Originally posted by Xin Yu
Patient English, there is a'delevent' program in your civ2 directory and you can use it to replace existing events with a new one easily. Also keep in mind that any city with name length 12 chars or less will not be affected by Lazyciv. From your list there are only 3 cities have long names, so you only need to take care of those 3.

Ahem, delevent would also take away allready triggered events and make them retrigger (if there is such a word)... ;)

Then use a hex editor to change, just search for the 3 city names in the .sav file and replace them with shorter ones;).

This is all getting ridiculously complex.

I do not wish to hex edit all the saves, delevent them, and rewrite, retest and recompile the events file. This tournament is bogged down enough as it is.

Let us just NOT use it. The scenario then plays "as designed" and is fair for all. Let's face it, we each play all of the civs in turn, so it is TOTALLY fair.

How about this as a compramise position: only use Lazyciv when you need to. As most of the smaller civs will never be affected by the AI, and the larger civs will only occasionally be affected this should work out OK.

I'm still not totally happy with that, Case, as those using LC might have an advantage over those who do not (or cannot, like Henrik).

That leaves aside the whole issue of misfiring events and the various workarounds we may need to do to generate the correct techs and wonders.

Not using LC might be inelegant, but at least it's fair.

John, there is a problem with the French, both of their Infantry types are identical, in an earlier version, the white pants version the troops were 4/2, and blue pants 4/3, now both are 4/3, yet the blue ones cost more to build! :eek:

I suggest you look into this.

Oh, and BTW, played my turn in every game now, sorry for the endless delays.

I think that the blue ones have 'ignore zones of control' while the white ones don't

yah thats true, but it is not worth it. I never build the Legers. Also there is 2 identical Regit De Ligne units, the only dif is they are facing different sides.

AoA.

The Leger (Light French Infantry) indeed have the ignore ZOC flag. This is not worth it for the human player, but it is for the AI. In reality, the French Light and Line regiments were pretty much identical in training and deployment after around 1805 anyway. My stats reflect this.

(The stats are in fact 6/4/2 3:3. I hope you are using the correct version of the game!)

The two sorts of Line infantry are again to help the AI. The "defensive" role ones are shown in line formation. The "offensive" role ones are in column. OK?

In practice, depending on the number of shields produced by a city, it might take just as long to build a Line as it does to build a Light. In this case, you would therefore build a Light to get the Ignore ZOC ability.

This happens just enough that a few Light are built (even by a human, and also by the AI) buy not so much that only Light (or only Line) are built. It works out OK in the end - trust me!

I suggest you include that in the game notes so players understand.

A good suggestion. Unfortunately I forgot in the original release, and I will not be doing a new release just for that.

If there is ever a version 2h, I will include it then.

;)

By the way, AoA, what is your opinion of the use of LazyCiv, now most votes and info about the app are in? I will not be hex-editing all the saves to change the embedded events and city names, so the only option is to either use it, and accept some events won't work, or not use it and accept the AI might change some build queues at random if you lose a nearby city.

Well, I was hoping that somebody would ask me to make a Lazyciv 4 to solve this problem. Looks like you guys managed to get around by yourselves, so I don't need to do anything.;)

My opinion?

I play the posted save, I have no idea about these other matters.

This scenario has no wonders, so I don't see a production problem, besides, when you have 7 players, anything extra you add increases the likelihood of mistakes, foulups, and decreased interest.

AoA,

While I agree about the complexity avoidance principle, the scenario does have Wonders - at least one of which is enabled by events, and at least one obsoleted by them. Which is one of my worries - they may not be enabled properly. This is version 2g remember, not 2a. Also some units are created by events, and some of these definitely would NOT appear with LazyCiv being used as it stands.

However, if it is Wonder-production that leaves Civs open to the AI changing their build queues then it is totally up to the player to judge the risk. They can always choose not to build the Wonder...

Xin, if you think you can fix this issue with a LazyCiv 4 I would be very interested to see it...for future use. However, I still feel we shouldn't use LazyCiv in this Tournament, if for no other reason because Henrik CAN'T.

OK. Let us resolve this. If no-one can convince me otherwise by posting or email by Friday 6th September, I shall say "no LazyCiv" for the duration of this tournament. Please could each player take the time to change the city names for his civ back to what they should be (a list is available at the top of this thread), so events work properly? By the time one full round of turns is complete, the corrupted names should have disappeared entirely.

I do NOT expect them to re-appear!

By the way, people seem to have stopped playing their turns (maybe waiting for this to be resolved). Please continue as soon as possible guys. AoA made a big effort to clear the log-jam. Let's not let it re-form.

Thanks,

John

If we decide on not using Lazyciv, we should be prepared for some very unhappy players. The argument that everyone runs the same risk is not all together true. If that where the case, everyone should experience the same "crisis". But i think that will not be the case. Some players will experience that the AI changes the production, and some players wont experience this at all.

Do we really think that the player experiencing the AI production change will feel that he got a fair competition? My guess is that the answer is no.

I have stopped using Lazyciv untill a decition is agreed on, but for the record i support the use of Lazyciv. As long as the users have a good understanding on how to use it, the risk of causing harm to other players will be minimal. But that still leaves the problem with city names and events... :rolleyes: But this will allso be the same for all players.

OK. SAS, Case and Voltar are for LazyCiv, Henrik, AoA and me are against it.

Waku and WinterFritz have not yet voted.

Your point about fair competition either way cannot apply to Henrik, Stian. If we all put the extra effort in to use LC, we all get an advantage over Henrik, but Henrik has to suffer the same problems with LC that we all do. So he will definitely be unhappy! And the Tournament cannot be fair.

If we do not use LC, there is a random (?) chance that the AI will change a production queue (AoA thinks only if Wonder-building is involved - I don't know), but we all run the same risk. We could even mitigate that risk if we choose not to build Wonders, perhaps....The events run properly and the scenario runs as designed.

It seems that someone will be unhappy either way, I wish I had known about LC before the games started, and I would have banned it in the rules. As it is, if a clear majority are for it (eg 5 to 3), I shall try to persuade Henrik to play on. I won't be using it in any case, to show solidarity! ;) If it is voted against or tied, I think we should all accept that it should not be used.

Thanks for not using LC while this is decided, SAS. Can everyone else do the same please, and also take the time to rename thier own cities to what they should be?

Would you care to summerize EXACTLY what "lazyciv" is, what it's useage entails (I mean EXACTLY what has to be done) and what benifits it has?

Don't ask me to dig through a hundred posts, if it can't be sumerized easily, why would I want to use it?

Let me explain. At first I designed lazyciv like this: when lazyciv is running, it records the current player's production item to the last city name byte, and put a flag '01' to the second to last city name byte. Since '01' is not in the normal alphabetical character set, it is pretty safe as far as the player does not change city names manually. It will mess up with long city names (13 chars or longer ones), but this is the only place AI won't touch in a saved file.

Then the next turn when selecting player name and gender, the player can launch lazyciv. When first initialized, lazyciv will check if the second last byte of a city name is '01', if so then the last byte is written back to the production item.

Later I added a 'copy' and 'paste' function so that the player can copy another saved file's production item to the current game. (I did not want to provide this at first since the feature can be abused. ) With this function the player does not need to use lazyciv in the previous turn in order to 'record' production items. I still kept the 'record' function since if a player uses lazyciv, then another person (a 'sub') who may not have the previous saved file can still recover production.

If a long city name is associated with events, then the player who plays the associated civ can use the 'copy' and 'paste' feature once at the beginning of every turn, then quit lazyciv, and before the end of his turn manually recover the long city name. As far as every player is careful (i.e., use lazyciv only when his civ is the current player, and manually recover long city names before the end of his turn), there should not be any problem. However if some players keep lazyciv open while the AI is moving (or using the cheat mode to play as another player), then other civ's long city names will also be messed up. I should take no responsibility for that, right?

In other wrods: the AI likes changing production when your civ is attacked by another player/AI. So when its your turn your production might be different from your previous turn. It reverts production to that previous turn so nothing changed from as you left it.

Sorry Xin just seemed to me your explination was a bit technical.

Now, what exactly does it take to run this program?

And can a MAC user like Henrik use it?

Lazyciv checks if widows MPE is running, so the window bar of civ2 must be something like 'Civilization Multiplayer Gold'.

The only way Lacy civ could work on macs as far as I know is if it was written in Java (which I don't think it is) and even then it would be pretty uncertain if it would actually work (as even Java programs wont allways be 100% compatible).

Well, the Friday deadline has come and gone. No-one has persuaded me it would be fairer to use LazyCiv than not to use it.

Therefore, I must ask you all not to use it, please. When it is your turn, please rename any citynames you can that have become corrupted.

Thanks.

You're the boss.

Speaking of turns, who'se turn is it?
The games haven't moved for a while now.

Henrik,

Waku's I think. He has been uncontactable for a bit. I will try and do a bulk email again, setting out whose turn it is in each game, but this might have to wait a while, as I am moving house today/tomorrow.

Also, be aware I am on holiday myself 17/9/02 - 2/10/02. I will arrange a sub for this period. Details later.

Voltar, well I am the overall tournament umpire, I guess, but we all get a vote....Thanks for not protesting the decision too much however - these things are difficult enough to run as it is....:(

I am glad to say Steve has agreed to take over for me, and I have sent him my strategy notes and passwords. Please be fair with him!

His email is knapowski_seabee@crane.navy.mil

Back on the 2nd, but probably a few days after that before I can really get stuck in.

Hmm... the games are moving very slow... who is slowing the games???

Winterfritz I think :( Aparently schools getting very intesnse for him...

Gentlemen

I have been keeping an eye on the tournament games and it doesn't seem like there has been much movement. If its Patients turn to play and you need me to do a move for him please sned me an email. I dont want to subscribe to each separate forum because this is only a two week gig.

If you need me my email is knapowski_seabee@crane.navy.mil

:D

Again, I seem to need to do this. I really hoped things would have moved on a bit while I was away....:(

Game #1: Henrik to play - delay 8 days.
Game #2: Henrik to play - delay 15 days
Game #3: WinterFritz to play - delay 1 month!
Game #4: WinterFritz to play - delay 1 month!
Game #5: WinterFritz to play - delay 1 month and 2 days!
Game #6: Henrik to play - delay 15 days
Game #7: WinterFritz to play - delay 20 days.
Game #8: Henrik to play - delay 0 days.

Guys, if you can't play, please find a sub, temporary or permanent.

Thanks for standing by, Steve. Maybe we can find you more (and better) employment soon....

John

Henrik and WinterFritz.

Thanks for moving so promptly! I hope I won't need to remind you again...;)

Let the Games continue.....

Thanks. SAS, for helping me chivvy up the laggards! ;)

(By the way - damn about those Russian naval losses! When I played the save again several days later, just for fun, my ships did much better and swept you from the seas entirely!)

Oh well. C'est la guerre! :D

Originally posted by Patient English
Thanks. SAS, for helping me chivvy up the laggards! ;)

(By the way - damn about those Russian naval losses! When I played the save again several days later, just for fun, my ships did much better and swept you from the seas entirely!)

Oh well. C'est la guerre! :D

No problem Patient

I guess the Swedish AI was rubbish, because i didnt have any problems sinking your ships with my fleet of two deckers ;)

I think we should consider using umpires on people who gives no warning and leaves the games for several weeks.

Agreed. This is getting silly. Wait until Friday night, then we will do the umpire thing again.

John

OK. WinterFritz has just mailed me with his apologies to you all, and so say that as school is so busy, he will try to find a sub for the medium-term future.

I am going to suggest that Steve (the guy that subbed for me while I was on holiday) does the same for WF.

If that doesn't work for either Steve or WF, in the short term WF says by all means let the umpires play for him. He has sent me all of his passwords, and I will send those to the relevant umpires as soon as I know whether Steve will sub or not, so they can play on.

Great new! Perhaps we can get the game going again.

Patient and SAS,

You may have emailed me already but I wont be able to read it till tuesday. I will sub, if you can PM me the passwords and let me know which games I am officially holding up right now so I do not have to hunt and peck around. Ill try to get the turn (s) done by tommorrow evening USA time depending upon when I hear from you guys. If the PM doesn't work try my home email:
knapowski@earthlink.com or
knapowski@earthlink.net

I can never remember which one works. And dont bother to remember the home email, Im going to a dsl line next week and that account will be dead in about three or four days.

I must warn you Im rapidly gaining a reputation as a very rude bumper. (Games that are bogged down drive me nuts!) It may also be difficult for me to play the next two weekends but that is only two days.
:)

Patient

In addition if you could email me that spreadsheet you are using so I could modify for my use I would appreciate it. I left the file you sent me at work and would like to get a system together this weekend. I have monday off of work as well. Zap off the passwords and notes first if you prefer.

Thanks:)

Patient

Please Ignore the previous post, I downloaded the spreadsheet from a lot earlier in this thread so I got it. I also corrected the turn order.:crazyeye:

If Winterfritz forwarded his excell file I could really use that so please forward. Again, anytime prior to tuesday please use the above home email.

Now assuming you want me to go on and sub for Winterfritz it looks like I need to move in # 7 and #2. When I get the passwords I will take a look around both files. I have already downloaded them.

I spent about two hours last night going over the threads and making a bunch of notes on the ones where I need to play. So I am fairly up to speed. In number two I obviously have to talk to Case before I make a move. In game 7 it is fairly early so I believe I can handle that and move forward. I will PM Case now and hope for an answer by tomorrow assuming Im still in. Figures I would have the Russian move in #2. This could give me the heart attack Ive always wondered about. :crazyeye:

I must warn you all its been about 20 year since I had European History in College, so please dont expect my posts to be as colorfull as Winterfritz's right off the bat. But Im ready to give her a go.:groucho:

PS: I also need to understand the numbering system. I think I got it except for the first four letters/ numbers.

Patient
Briefly talked to Case. Now its time to make the big decision and play the turn, then we will see what happens.:)

Steve,

Thanks for all that - I haven't mailed you with the passwords, because I haven't heard from WF yet.

However, I will give him until tomorrow to reply, and if he doesn't, or is OK with you subbing, then I will send you spreadsheet and passwords.

The turn order on the Spreadsheet I send you will be correct, with passwords inserted. Is Excel 2000 OK for you?

We've waited this long, we can wait 24 hours more to give WF a chance to reply.

Naming format:

Yhe save file format should be consistent. I would like to name them like this:

(xxGnBon2ZZZmmmyyyy.net), where xx is the turn number (01 to 75), n is the Game number (1 to 7) ZZZ is the national identifier (Bri, Fra, etc), and mmm is the month and yyyy is the year.


John

John
This sounds like a plan. I still have excell 97 on the home machine could you save it down to an earlier version? 97 may still read it. The spreadsheet you had posted in an earlier post, I downloaded and was able to read, was that 2000?

OK I think I got the numbering system figured out but Im just curious what the "G" stands for if I may ask.

And I know Im being redundant but please forward to my home email. I wont be at work until tuesday morning (afternoon your time.) Again that is also in an earlier post.

Thats about it. By the way my oldest son thinks you are "pretty cool" he and I and son #2 have been playing Bonaparte 2 hotseat, the only thing he doesn't like is having to establish the trade routes :p at there age they just like to do battles.....

I am standing by:goodjob:

Introduction... have been poking about playing a few scenarios and stumbled upon PBEM's... would like to jump in and get my feet wet. It seems that Bonaparte II holds quite a bit of interest and the players appear serious to play... so I'd like to toss my hat in the ring. If any positions or substitutions become available i'd definitely be interested. I might be green but i'd be dependable and have played with civII for several years and at least adept at strategy. I've d'l cedric's MP Gold "emulator?" and the patch on top of that for 1.3 and have dabbled with a couple of Ellis' scenarios... colonies III and this one. Thanks for your consideration.

Diatribe - thanks for the offer. We will definitely bear you in mind if we have any more dropouts.

Steve, The spreadsheet WAS Excel 2000. I can send you an Excel 95 version - in fact I will, just in case.

"G" is for Game.

Glad your sons are receiving a proper education! Tell them Britain lived or died by her trade, hence her major effort at ruling the waves....That's why they have all those ships to play with!

John

Got it at work and she works great, the spreadsheet that is.

I looked at both files breifly at lunch today. I will probally post #7 tonight but #2 is at such a critical juncture it probally wont be till tommorrow.:)

Back to work now after a 4 day holiday so things are again hopping in real life. And I dont want to do something stupid and screw the game up for all.
Look tommorrow, there will be something on the website. Sweet dreams, Steve K

John,

I'm starting to have some doubts about the future of the tournament. I think we have to tighten the tolleranse on how long we age going to allow players to leave unannounced before we take actions.

At the current rate, the tournament wont be finished before next cristmas or later (no joke). I personally would like to get it done before that, and i'm sure most of the others feel the same.

If you sign up on a big tournament like this involvong 8 games at one time, you must be an active player. I dont think we can live with the fact that some players leave for an extended time without giving notice. And even those who do give notice, we should use umpires much sooner. I dont want to point any fingers, but clearly some players are more active than others. But i think one should expect everyone to make your move at least within a week after it's your turn.

*ducks*

I agree with sas - this is getting silly.

I think that we should institute a convention whereby you email/pm the person who comes after you when you post your turn.

Re diatribe: no offence, but if we have to find a replacement for anybody, I'd rather we went with someone who's been around for longer. This is a large project, and I'd prefer to only play with people who I know I can trust to play their turns on time and not cheat (please note that I'm not saying that Diatribe would do these things, I'd just prefer to play with someone who has more experiance and who I know that I trust).

I agree with Case. My idea would be to send the email after the turn is complete as Case suggested. At 48 hours bump the upcomming player. At 72 hours the ump plays. That becomes the rule of thumb. Just my idea but Ive been dying to get into this thing and now that Im in I hate for it to bog down. Just some ideas from the new guy. :crazyeye:

Case, SAS and Steve.

I agree with you all. I have just moved house and so have had plenty on my mind apart from Civ recently (but have still played my turns) but now I want to speed up as much as you do. I think Steve's play-post-email-48hrsbump-72hrsumpire sounds good.

I will agree to that if all the players will. Comments please, AoA, Henrik, Voltar and Waku....

John

John

Do you believe its time to do the summary of all the games with the appropriate delays?

Just a thought.

Steve,

A good thought, too. But as I did one last week, perhaps it's someone else's turn?

John

I'll do it, give me 15 min :goodjob:

This is the list of who's next and the time it's been theire turn.

Game #1 Henrik, 3 weeks!!! :mad:
Game #2 Case, 4 hours :D
Game #3 Alcibiaties, 3 days
Game #4 Waku, 2 weeks!! :mad:
Game #5 Henrik, 1 week!
Game #6 Waku, 2 weeks!! :mad:
Game #7 Case, 6 hours :D
Game #8 Waku, 2 weeks!! :mad:

Go get em SAS!:goodjob:

Im going to bump all the late Threads, maybe a bump from the "Bump King" will have the desired effect.

:spank:

I just sent a mail to all the contesters. Hopefully this will draw Waku and Henrik out from the woods..

I'm here :p
Strange about game 5 though, was it in the other bump?
I could've sworn I checked that thread a few days ago :confused: :o

Henrik

All that matters is that you played, great work, lets keep moving!

Sent an email to AoA, he is up on a bunch of games.

Aoa, if you are out there we really want you to come back!

Thanks
conmcb25

Steve has found out the hard way, that if you lose your capital in Bonaparte II, you can't build another Palace. :(

Now, this is fine for SP, but maybe a bit harsh for MP? Anyway, I thought I would enquire if we all could accept a rule change, where Palaces are buildable, but at a cost of 400 shields. I think that's better, but I only get 1 vote.

Post or PM your answers to me. If even one person objects, we won't do it. OK?

i vote yes for the ability to build a new Palace.

I vote yes for palace.

John

I appreciate the offer, I have sent you an email about this subject, I dont believe it is really fair to change the rules at this time, and I dont really want the rules changed for me. I was just surprised that this was not an option and was wondering if it was deliberate or not. In the future maybe we should all think about this and discuss if this should be changed in the scenario. But right now I just couldn't do it. I would feel like some whiney 12 year old (and believe me I know what they sound like!)

So thats that, one no vote settles it, on with the game, the bear isnt completely dead yet..................

Steve,

Most sportsmanlike of you. Sorry if I jumped the gun. However, it sounds so far as if others think the Place-buildable concept is a worthy one, so your agony has not been in vain!

A future version of the game will have this.

John

I vote in favour of palace building as well

So do I (for gameplay reasons rather than historical ones ;)) but only if ones original capital has allready been destroyed (also doesn't Russia have two capitals? If not they should, one in St. Petersburg and one in Moscow).

Nope, only one capital in St Pete, I dont believe you can have more than one capital in Civ II, but if you can that is an interesting thought.

You can set up more than one to start (using the cheat menu), but not build more once the game has started, unless all of them are destroyed or sold.

You can only sell capitals with cheatmode turned on though ;)
So you can have more than one capital, untill you move it, when you do it'll be the only one.

OK, AoA has not replied to our bump mails, so unfortunately we are going to have to play his turn via the umpires.

Please, all umpires play your turns in the games where AoA is to play, EXCEPT games 5 and 7, which have not been held up for long enough yet.

If he has not sent you the password to the game you are trying to play for him, report the fact in the appropriate thread, and the NEXT chap to play (it will usually be me) will play on, letting the AI play his turn.

John

Game #1: AoA has passworded his save and not told me. Therefore Waku is next up in that one. I have posted in that thread and emailed him.

I suspect the others will be similar. Also, I have not heard from Chris in nearly a week. Maybe R/L is getting in the way, or he is bored with the Tournament. Whatever, we should look for a possible replacement, I'm thinking....

John

I've now played for AoA in game 4...

To add injustice to my predicament WF was umpire in #6 and of course AoA was the Russians! It seems I cant get away from those pesky despots. :eek:

John Ill send WF an email and see if he got a password. Also how about one last try at emailing AoA and asking if he would be gratious enough to supply the passwords?

Also Henrik isn't there some magic way you can clear all the passwords? Its drastic but hopefully we could trust one another enough to get thru one turn each resetting our individual passwords as we play the turn. Just an idea.

Who are we looking for, would a newbie do? Are you guys picky?

I have two guys in mind, one is new? So talk to me here. Thanks:king:

After this post Im sure you will all believe Im a masochist but recently I jumped over to Apolyton and volunteered to be the ......yes the Russians. (Im really not a masochist by the way.)
It was to help out Darius whom I seem to have this weird unexplainable allegience to.

My point being that I posted that we might need a replacement here, it was 7 games, it was quite a commmitment, and we would want someone to stick it out till the end.

One more person to ask personnally who is not in Boney II games currently. I gave him a warning order about a week ago, so he has had a chance to think about it.

And whomever takes over im going to tell them to watch out for that crafty Henrik!
:D

Just so that you all don't wonder where he is, Steve got banned for 2 or 3 weeks at the AoW thread (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=559011#post559011 ) for insulting a mod and having a DL. No opinions here, just letting you know. :(

Argh

Yes I am able to remove passwords, if someone lists the files where this should be done I'll do it when its my turn next (I have to have the password of the civ who'se turn it is to do this and waiting for my turn seems to be the simplest way)...

Game #1, Henrik. The save is still at your turn, so if you reopoen the save and strip AoA's password, I'll play on.

John

(I'll deal with this ban stuff later on, but Steve can email us the stuff. I don't see how a D/L could be "cheating" so until someone explains how, I'm relaxed about that.)

I am away until Sunday pm now. See ya'all ;)

AoA says he can play his turns this weekend - if he does, please hold off on playing for him as an umpire. Only have to wait 24 more hours to see.

Originally posted by Patient English
AoA says he can play his turns this weekend - if he does, please hold off on playing for him as an umpire. Only have to wait 24 more hours to see.

Does that mean that from this weekend he will play as normal? If it only means he will play this weekend and then go away for another month or so i say we replace him...

Reckon he's on probation, then...;)

Just to let everyone know, after appealing to Thunderfall, Steve's ban has been reduced to 1 week (which is still too long IMO)

Let me state here, most of YOU are on probation with ME, not vice versa.

This is the LAST time I'm going to bust my but to play turns, if i don't see movement this time, THAT'S it.

The last time, I waited over a MONTH and saw NOTHING.

You are all cautioned, STOP WASTING MY TIME THIS WAY.

In fact, I'm so annoyed, why don't you just find someone else.

I never agreed to this John, you just "volunteered" me for it, I didn't mind helping out, but now my reputation is being assaulted, it's impossible to keep track of matters, and people are dropping out.

For example, I had an ALLIANCE with Britain as France, in one game, and looking at the save, Britain attacked me like crazy, unacceptable.

7 games is far to many to keep track of and enjoy, and I'm not alone feeling this, two others (you can guess who John) feel as I do.

I sugest you scale this down and out, try it with TWO games, and I'd be happy to have a go, but I'm not putting up with this for another moment.

EDIT: I deleted my own post, because the content was written in "the heat of the moment"

All i will say is that AoA two post is way out of line. We all knew there would be many games to play. If you couldnt see that before you signed on, that's your problem.

Jesus Christ, let's just relax here people... :(

Yes. The probation comment was supposed to be ironic - hence the smiley.

However, if AoA doesn't want to play, or feels it's too much of a commitment, better he says it now.

AoA - I still want you to play. Do you want to?

Deffinatly not, and SAS, I DIDN'T sign on, John signed me on, and I wouldn't participate in an activity with YOU ever again.
As for out of line, you are, not I.

I hold you responcible you this debacle John, and I am STILL immensly angry at this nonsense, as you see, I'm still taking flak for this.

I'll thank you to NEVER AGAIN volunteer my name without asking me first.
Contact me on AIM, we need to discuss this further.

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
Deffinatly not, and SAS, I DIDN'T sign on, John signed me on, and I wouldn't participate in an activity with YOU ever again.
As for out of line, you are, not I.

I hold you responcible you this debacle John, and I am STILL immensly angry at this nonsense, as you see, I'm still taking flak for this.

I'll thank you to NEVER AGAIN volunteer my name without asking me first.
Contact me on AIM, we need to discuss this further.

All i can say Alcibiaties, is that you're doing a very good job at damaging your own reputation. Allthough John did sign you on, i have yet so see any protest untill yesterday.

And i dont understand your criticism of other players. Yes i agree with you 100% that some players move too slow. But you have allso delayed games on several occasions. Dont point fingers at other people when you can't do a good job yourself.

:rolleyes:

AoA, I'll be on AIM around 22:00 GMT, if you can make it then.

This seems to have gotten very out of hand suddenly - I don't know how. :(

Anyway, let's chat "face-to-face" before any more posting about it.

John

Im back!!!!!

Are we going to look for a replacement?:crazyeye:

Seems so. :undecide:

Originally posted by Darius
Seems so. :undecide:

Are you volunteering, you seem to be very interested in this homepage.................

:D :D

No. For the first time ever, I'll say I'm in too many games. :eek: Never thought I'd say it... I mean 8 games, with a very intricate scenario at that, sorry. :(

Originally posted by Darius
No. For the first time ever, I'll say I'm in too many games. :eek: Never thought I'd say it... I mean 8 games, with a very intricate scenario at that, sorry. :(

Had a feeling you would say that, this one is pretty fun however.
Ill send that email between now and lunch:crazyeye:

Edit: BTW we aren't officially looking for a replacement yet till the Boss (Patient English) gives us the word.:D

Ok, just didn't look like Chris was going to change his mind anytime soon. ;)

Originally posted by Case
I agree with sas - this is getting silly.

I think that we should institute a convention whereby you email/pm the person who comes after you when you post your turn.

Re diatribe: no offence, but if we have to find a replacement for anybody, I'd rather we went with someone who's been around for longer. This is a large project, and I'd prefer to only play with people who I know I can trust to play their turns on time and not cheat (please note that I'm not saying that Diatribe would do these things, I'd just prefer to play with someone who has more experiance and who I know that I trust).

Gentlemen

I believe it is time to begin emailing the next person when you have finished a turn. Even the mighty Bump King let one slip by this week.

My proposal is this and it has been discussed before in the thread.

Email after the turn, Bump at 48 Hours, Umpire plays at 72 hours.

John do you have any probelm with this? Lets just all do it if the boss gives his blessing, Thanks!:D

Originally posted by Case
I agree with sas - this is getting silly.


Re diatribe: no offence, but if we have to find a replacement for anybody, I'd rather we went with someone who's been around for longer. This is a large project, and I'd prefer to only play with people who I know I can trust to play their turns on time and not cheat (please note that I'm not saying that Diatribe would do these things, I'd just prefer to play with someone who has more experiance and who I know that I trust).

Case I agree in principle with this statement, however you must admit that you didn't know me from adam before this PBEM. Am I doing OK? And I think you and I are having a blast in #2, dont you think?

Maybe what this tourney needs is some new blood. Im playing with Diatribe in two PBEM's and he is a little green but a likeable and dependable guy.

We can advertise but what do you propose if several people want in? Interview them? This guy maybe willing to do this now.
Just a thought. :D

One last thing and Ill shut up.

There is an old saying that I have tried to abide by.

Praise in Public, and Criticize in private.

If you have a major problem with someone personnally please do it via email or instant messanger or something, lets leave the homepage to productive communication.

Now kidding around with one another is a whole different story but I dont think we were kidding around earlier this week.

Just a thought and I would appreciate it.

Thanks :D

Originally posted by conmcb25


Case I agree in principle with this statement, however you must admit that you didn't know me from adam before this PBEM. Am I doing OK? And I think you and I are having a blast in #2, dont you think?

Yeah but a) you came with John's recomendation and b) your first ever post wasn't in this thread ;)

BTW, The ANZAC has expressed an interest in joining us :)

Steve,

Your email idea is good. I support it.

Case, ANZAC I have heard good things of. If he is willing to do the hours this will take, I am happy with him as first option.

If not, as Steve says, we have to trust someone, and (1) Steve's known to be a committed player and (2) he can vouch for Diatribe to some extent, so I am more relaxed than if we were talking about someone totally unknown.

Basically, let's get this show back on the road!

(And Steve's motto we should all adopt!) ;)

Patient: I didn't know my name was going around, but that's good :cool:

Also, you say hours? You're just talking about the PBEM, right?

Second, which of these 8 games do you need me to fill in for? If it's more than one, I think that's a little much, as you can look at 'poly and see some of the PBEMs I'm in.

Originally posted by The ANZAC
Patient: I didn't know my name was going around, but that's good :cool:

Also, you say hours? You're just talking about the PBEM, right?

Second, which of these 8 games do you need me to fill in for? If it's more than one, I think that's a little much, as you can look at 'poly and see some of the PBEMs I'm in.

ANZAC, Im not rying to put words in Patients mouth but I believe we want someone for all the games, we dont believe AoA is comming back. The hours refer to the diplomacy that goes on behind the scenes via mainly email. This scenario just begs for diplomacy! We would really like to get you onboard, you have a wonderfull reputation, but there is a big commitment here.

John will probally add more later, he is awfull busy with real life this week and come to think of it so should I be as well.

Hope you decide to take the plunge.

:D

Originally posted by Case


Yeah but a) you came with John's recomendation and b) your first ever post wasn't in this thread ;)

BTW, The ANZAC has expressed an interest in joining us :)

Case

Point well taken, I just feel a certain allegiance to new guys since I was a new guy a very short time ago ( and maybe I still am in some eyes) and I did not initially get much of a welcome. If it wasn't for John encouraging me I probally wouldn't have stuck it out.

In either case hopefully we will find a hard charger soon!

I didn't realize form what case said that I was needed for all 8 games (that would double the number of PBEMs I'm in) So I gracefully withdraw from the running :goodjob:

Originally posted by The ANZAC
I didn't realize form what case said that I was needed for all 8 games (that would double the number of PBEMs I'm in) So I gracefully withdraw from the running :goodjob:

Now before someone gets upset with me all Im going to say is we at least owed the person the truth on what it takes to successfully do this tourney. So if you want to yell and scream and rant and rave at me based on my previous request please email me at home this weekend.

:)

knapowski@bluemarble.net

Ok, how about this: from what I've read Winterfritz is only gone for the medium-term due to exams. If this is true, Steve could replace AoA permanently, and I could play WF's turns until he is back. I can't stay here permanently, but if he's only gone for a month or so, I'd gladly be a temporary sub. :)

If nothing else it would get me out of my Russia predicament in #2, and WF be upset when he gets back!. Just kidding:D

Are you sure you want to that Darius? Get that involved and then have to drop it? Plus I wonder if WF is really going to come back, The Exam thing has been discussed for weeks, I think it is more he is just too busy at school period, but hey I could be wrong.:confused:

But if this is what the group wants to do then I will go ahead and do it.:goodjob:

Only, and I say only, if WF is coming back sometime relatively soon. You're right though; I don't think his exams would take several weeks, and if it's just an excuse to disappear permanently than you have to find someone else.

WF *may* be doing his finals (I can't remember if he's in year 11 or 12). Those are very intense and require lots of study. They should also be over in a month or so (School will definetly finish for him in december)

ANZAC: I should of mentioned that joining this would involve 8 games :o - sorry.

They should also be over in a month or so (School will definetly finish for him in december)

If I can take your word on that, consider my hat in the ring. :)

Originally posted by Case
WF *may* be doing his finals (I can't remember if he's in year 11 or 12). Those are very intense and require lots of study. They should also be over in a month or so (School will definetly finish for him in december)

Well Case what are you saying? Do you think he will be back in December? If so I am not going to be to happy to leave. Do you think I should take over for AoA?:confused:

If this is true, Steve could replace AoA permanently, and I could play WF's turns until he is back.

Darius

Yes I know I read the posts but Im just wondering what Cases opinion is on this. Sounds like he knows WF pretty well. :D

Ah, just making sure you read, it sounded like the idea hadn't crossed your mind. :p

1) As I don't know exactly why WF left, I certainly can't guarentee that he'll be back. All I can guarentee is that school will finish in mid december, and WF will then have at least 6 weeks of holiday (3 months if he's finished Year 12).

2) Seeing as 'Fritz will have missed at least 2 months of the game, I think that Steve should take over his turns for good, and Darius fill in for AoA until WF turns up, whereupon he can then take AoA's old turns. While this is hardly an ideal situation, it will minimise the amount of disruptions caused by people swapping over.

OK, this is getting complicated again!

First off, AoA has been in touch, and he tells me all his passwords are the same - "chris". I think we two have sorted out the issues, and all is cool. :) (Although he HAS retired from the tournament.)

As to subs, I think it would be hellish for Steve to swap places again. He has earnt some stability. Darius, could you sub for AoA, until either we find a permanent sub, or you get hooked, or WF comes back and takes over AoA's position?

Let me know soon, please. Otherwise the umpires should soon play for AoA to get things moving again.

John

This Tourney is complicated by definition, but if it wasn't it would be so much fun! Look for an email from me soon.:D

Originally posted by Darius
Ah, just making sure you read, it sounded like the idea hadn't crossed your mind. :p

Darius my crafty friend I'm always looking for as better angle to get this Tourney moving. :crazyeye:

OK, this is the way it should be:

Darius will take over from AoA (Steve tells me he is cool with that) and should play all of AoA's turns (password "chris") as soon as he can. OK Darius? Welcome aboard, by the way, and thanks for stepping in to help! :)

When/if WinterFritz comes back, he takes over from DARIUS, not Steve. If not WF, someone else to take over from Darius, assuming he continues not to want the long-term committment.

Let's get going again!

Welcome aboard Darius!

Originally posted by Patient English
OK, this is the way it should be:

Darius will take over from AoA (Steve tells me he is cool with that) and should play all of AoA's turns (password "chris") as soon as he can. OK Darius? Welcome aboard, by the way, and thanks for stepping in to help! :)

When/if WinterFritz comes back, he takes over from DARIUS, not Steve. If not WF, someone else to take over from Darius, assuming he continues not to want the long-term committment.

Let's get going again!

I would also add that if you have any agreements, treaties, understandings, etc. with AoA you need to let Darius now ASAP, so he knows how to play the turns.

And watch out for Darius he is almost as crafty as Henrik!:D :D :D

....you need to let Darius now ASAP

...which reminds me. Darius, could you post your email and AIM handle (if any) here, so I can add it to post #1 on this thread, and everyone can communicate easily with you?

Thanks

Wow, a lot happened in 12 hours...

Ok, I agree with the sub arrangement you posted (although I don't know if WF would like it), and I'll read through the threads and try to get all of AoA's turns done today.

My contacts:

Email - therock871@aol.com
AIM - therock871
MSN - therock871@aol.com
Yahoo - Darius871
ICQ - 152459755

Altogether I prefer PM's for diplomacy and always have, but if there's something that needs realtime, if I am on AOL I prefer AIM, and if I am on my college dialup because my brother's on AOL or some other reason, I prefer ICQ. I only have MSN and Yahoo so that anyone without ICQ can still reach me. I also have another email at gall0278@d.umn.edu, but I rarely check it (as Steve knows ;) ).

I'll get whatever idea I can of the diplomacy in each game from the threads, and if anyone has anything from behind the scenes that I need to know, try and get it to me by tonight before I do the turns. :)

Darius

This is a very ambitious time schedule. I would make sure you are good to go on diplomacy first! The mistake I initially made was trying to play the turns too quick.

Ill see if there is anything we need to talk about in the turns you got up right now.:D

Ok, my only question so far is what's the word on Waku? Are the umpires playing his turns right now?

No word on Waku, Darius, and as we are over 72 hours in most of his games, it is down to the umpires (if they have his passwords).

I have emailed you the diplomacy I shared with AoA, but ask me directly if you need to get up to speed quicky. I am NOT good at PMs, but I answer emails pretty quickly.

Did you send it to my university email? If so I thought I'd stress again that I want diplomacy to be on my AOL addy. I only use the uni one for uni matters and file attachments, and rarely check it.

OK, I'll check and resend if required.

That'd be better, thanks. I have to go onto a separate dialup and login after that, and it's just a hassle.

Darius, your aol email is rejected by my SMTP server. Any known problems?

Try sending me an email from it, and I will reply with the diplomacy so far...

Huh, that's a first. Anyway, I sent the email.

...and that's all of Chris' turns finished! Let's try and get this going again, folks. :)

great work Darius :)

Sheesh! That means it's my turn in almost everything. I'm a bit tired tonight (Game #2 took it out of me!) but all will be played by midnight tomorrow.

I am traveling this weekend starting in about an hour. I will try to access thru my dial in account but I did have trouble with it the last time I used it so no guarentees.

Hey guys we are slowing down again, is everyone OK? Just wondering.:D

As I told Steve yesterday, I'm currently in the middle of my exams. As such, I'm afraid that I don't really have the time to stay totally on top of all 7 games which I'm in.

So, I apologise for being slow to play my turns and respond to the many emails which are sent to me, but as I'm sure that you'll all agree, 4th year university is more important then Civ ;)

My exams end next tuesday, and then it should be back to business as normal.

Originally posted by Case
As I told Steve yesterday, I'm currently in the middle of my exams. As such, I'm afraid that I don't really have the time to stay totally on top of all 7 games which I'm in.

So, I apologise for being slow to play my turns and respond to the many emails which are sent to me, but as I'm sure that you'll all agree, 4th year university is more important then Civ ;)

My exams end next tuesday, and then it should be back to business as normal.

That is what I call a mature attitude! Thanks for the Update! And prepare to get the Bump attack of your life next tuesday! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It seems Waku is up in several games again. Perhaps we should consider to let the Umpire play?

Originally posted by sas
It seems Waku is up in several games again. Perhaps we should consider to let the Umpire play?

Depends upon whether we have passwords or not. Do you have all the passwords on the game you are umpire in? I know I dont.:confused: :confused:

Waku has been pretty responsive after being bumped, I say give him till tonight.:)

Dammit Steve quit clogging up my damp control panel! :mad:

Originally posted by Darius
Dammit Steve quit clogging up my damp control panel! :mad:

Sorry Dear, just trying to keep the tourney moving, and I was going to be gone all day so I figured what the hell?

Do you still love me?

:vomit: :vomit:

Sure, but not like that. Not that there's anything wrong with that... :lol:

I got an email from 'Fritz yesterday in which he said that his exams end this Wednesday

Originally posted by Case
I got an email from 'Fritz yesterday in which he said that his exams end this Wednesday

Is he comming back then? Darius will be happy.:D

Isnt it abit too late now for 'Fritz to return? He's been away for a long time.

Well of course my opinion is forgive and forget. ;)

Originally posted by sas
Isnt it abit too late now for 'Fritz to return? He's been away for a long time.

But he is out of school now for three months or so and Darius only agreed to a temporary not a permanent substitution.

At least WF told us he had a conflict and promptly sent us his passwords, unlike some other individuals who will remain nameless.

If he comes back Ill be happy. Darius intimidates me way too much anyway..........;) ;)

Then apparently you've only been looking at my good games. I'm really pretty damn bad, and that's not just some 'crafty' trick to put your guard down. ;)

As long as Darius WANTS WF to replace him, that is the way it should be. I think that is what he said when he took this on, anyway, right?

Originally posted by Darius
Then apparently you've only been looking at my good games. I'm really pretty damn bad, and that's not just some 'crafty' trick to put your guard down. ;)

Ya sure Darius, I really believe you.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

As long as Darius WANTS WF to replace him, that is the way it should be. I think that is what he said when he took this on, anyway, right?

Correct, unless WF says he doesn't want to but he seems to be coming back.

...what about Waku? Didn't he say a few weeks ago that we could find someone to replace him?

Originally posted by Case
...what about Waku? Didn't he say a few weeks ago that we could find someone to replace him?

Really did Waku say that? And lets remember to be nice here.

Hey by the way isnt it tuesday afternoon down under?

Guess what Case? BUMP BUMP BUMP. Get the beer out of the fridge and lets play!:D

Let me know when you pop one open, I might have one here too! Just had a wee bit of Glenlivet before bed but I could go for a cold one with ya.
:beer: [party] :beer: :grad:

Edit; Case Im off to work but brought a beer with me for lunch just in case.................

John

I can see you are out there dont you ever turn on AIM? I think we need your wisdom on the above posts.

Thanks

:D

AAAARGH!!!!

Originally posted by conmcb25

Guess what Case? BUMP BUMP BUMP. Get the beer out of the fridge and lets play!:D

Ah, at last you admit it - your only hope of defeating my brilliant strategy is for me to play my turns while pissed :D :beer:

Hey Bump King, would it be so hard to just list who is late on this thread as has been done before? Or do you want my head to explode? :aargh:

If you don't tone down the bumps I might be forced to take the entire Caribbean from you in 3rd Colonies. :D

Originally posted by Case


Ah, at last you admit it - your only hope of defeating my brilliant strategy is for me to play my turns while pissed :D :beer:

Case old buddy I was hoping you wouldn't pick up on my subtle strategy, will you start drinking beer now please...... :D

It's 10:30 AM, which is a little too early to start drinking IMO ;)

I do not usually turn on AIM unless I know I want to talk with someone - usually arranged by email beforehand.

I also didn't know Waku had volunteered to be subbed. However, it IS getting to be a rather long lag. You have emailed him, I guess? If so - umpires play on where you have the password.

If not - I shall email him for his passwords - AoA and WF volunteered them without too much effort on my part. That would be best. Otherwise, we ask Henrik to strip them or let the AI play his move.