Here it is, finally up.
Trip's United States Civil War scenario v1.03 is now complete and ready for download.

You need an up-to-date version of WinZip or WinRar in order to play this scenario. If you use any other program the scenario won't work properly.

This may seem obvious, but since there aren't diplomacy options, make sure you declare war on the other side on the first turn. I've forgotten to do that plenty of times while playtesting it, and wondered "hey, why isn't the Union attacking me"? :D

The File is about 3 MB in size, so non-broadband users be patient. :)

PLEASE READ THE README.TXT FILE INCLUDED IN THE SCENARIO FOLDER.
It contains some valuable information, and if you skip it, you may be sorry later on.

To install, just follow these directions:
Download the .ZIP, then go into your Civ 3\Text\ folder. Right-click on the file "Civilopedia.txt", then uncheck where it says "Read-Only". Then with an up-to-date version of WinZip (I have v8.0), extract the .ZIP into your Civ 3 folder. It will overwrite nothing except your 'Civilopedia.txt' and 'Pediaicons.text' files, which is no problem if you're not using modified versions of those files. If you are, make back-ups of them first. After you've extracted the .ZIP, then everything will be ready for you to play. Go into Civ 3, select 'scenarios', find the folder and .BIC, and you're set to play.

Right now the Civilopedia on all the units and techs is not functioning, do not try to open them up in the Civilopedia or your game will crash. I may add Civilopedia support later on, but that's for another version, another day. :)

Anyways, I think that's about it. Hope everyone enjoys the scenario! Send feedback to GuardianOfTime@hotmail.com, or PM me.

My next project will probably be a scenario about Napoleon. We'll see when I can get started on that. ;)

'Til then...

Download the file here (http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/USCW1.05.zip).

New Version 1.04
The problem of the massive money shortage has been fixed. You will now make more cash. :)

New Version 1.05
Bunch of stuff changed. Check the readme if you care to find out what. :D

I cant wait to play. And I hope you get more units. There are quite a few in fanatics. You could add a few like:

Bandit= costs very high but has good attack and speed.
gunboat= request an artist for this. Good bombard and str. Slow

I think the idea is th cost between units is much different instead of the techtree getting new units. Maybe the techtree just increase ablitties of a unit and few new units.

I cant wait till friday!

Added 2 units: Rifled Artillery and "Veterans" (which I need another better name for).

If anyone has any particular unit images that they suggest for the scenario, then please feel free to give some advice. This is a lot of work as it is, and I don't really have time to go out and search for many units myself. ;)

I like the Gunboat idea, so I added it. It will be good to have smaller ships to use inside the rivers.

Yeah, you could use a whole lot more ships. I noticed you forgot about the Ironram. You may want to include this unit, seeing as it aided in the sinking of many warships, both Union and Confederate. Also, perhaps you could make a submersible. I believe the Confederacy had one or two of these, one of them, a very famous one, I can't remember the name though, heh, was a submersible and sunk near the coast of Virginia or the Carolinas, I cannot remember. You might be able to find something on the US Navy website about the history of the ships of the Civil War, I know they have something there, but I just cannot remember what the URL was.

How about a light artillery or horse drawn artillery unit. It would have a movement of two, but maybe slightly lower bombardment ratings to compensate.

Instead of Veteran infantry (which would be reflected by the promotion system that Civ 3 uses anyways), how about something like Repeating Rifle Infantry (okay, so that's not such a great name either, but it gets the point across). Basically a technology for the Sharpe's Repeating Rifle that allows infantry with higher attack and defense ratings.

Also, Realn mentioned the bandit unit, but a more accurate name would be Guerrillas or raiders. They were used primarily by the South. They should probably be cavalry with lower attack and defense, but an extra movement point to reflect their mobility. Perhaps they can have invisibility to, to reflect their ability to meld back into the civilian population.

Almost forgot about Blockade Runners, basically steam powered ships that smuggled cotton and such to Europe and smuggled back weapons and other things the Confederacy couldn't make for themselves. Of course, this has more of a economic effect than military, so I'm not sure how to make this work well. If we had scripting, smugglers could possibly work.

Yep, Ed beat me to it. Blockade Runners would be one thing you might want in it, Cruisers, which would hunt out enemy raiders I think.. What else, oh yeah, gunships like the CSS Alabama (a sloop I think).
What about a wonder that isn't very costly and is just like Battlefield Medicine? Since military hospitals were first used in the Civil War, I think you should be able to make a small wonder that would heal a fraction if possible, of hit points, since the sanitation wasn't very good.

ok units and links...

iron frigrate http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27237
grenadier http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26182
reiter= http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21843
ironclad ram(looks like it could be the ferry) = http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18870

hope this hel[ps

Originally posted by Ed O'War
Almost forgot about Blockade Runners, basically steam powered ships that smuggled cotton and such to Europe and smuggled back weapons and other things the Confederacy couldn't make for themselves. Of course, this has more of a economic effect than military, so I'm not sure how to make this work well. If we had scripting, smugglers could possibly work.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking also. Privateers/commerce raiders/smugglers will be useless, since there is no way to properly apply them in the scenario I'm afraid. The same goes for a submersible, and probably a literal 'iron ram' unit. I don't want to add useless units. :p While they'd spice things up, I don't want to include anything unless it serves a direct purpose. I feel that the "Warship" "Ironclad" and "Gunboat" units can fulfill any purpose. That is, of course, unless someone can convince me why a particular unit is so very important to include. Naval warfare isn't exactly best represented by the Civ 3 engine as it is. ;)

Ed: I will add some sort of 'Raider' unit. I know that "Veterans" is a bad name, but it's just temporary to represent the advance in technology towards rifled muskets later in the war, along with the increased amount of troops on both sides that could be considered 'seasoned'. I also like the light artillery idea... I wish there was a graphic that I could use to best represent it (I don't think there is). :(

Explodin Dog: I'll look into the small wonder thing. Hopefully I'll be able to know more later once the editor comes out.

I downloaded all of those units (hooray!).

I'm going to use the Iron Frigate graphic for the "Warship" unit, the Ironclad Ram for the Gunboat, and perhaps the Grenadier, not sure for what yet though.

And thanks for all the input! It's constructive criticism and pointers that help make great scenarios. Keep the stuff coming :goodjob: :)

I'm trying to remember the US name for dragoons - and I know there is one - but I think you should distinguish between them and normal cavalry, with normal cavalry fighting at the levels mentioned, but dragoons having an infantry defence value and very low attack value.

R.III

Heres a link to Dark Sheers Bandit unit. IMHO, it looks more appropriate for Civil War era cavalry than the default cavalry unit that comes with the game. It will look great in Union blue or Confederate gray (in red, it looks kind of like a Canadian Mountie, too).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15638

As for light artillery, a simple work around is to make a unit .ini that uses the standard cavalry graphic for movement, but the cannon graphics for default, attack and death. When it moves, it looks like cavalry, when it attacks it looks like artillery. It's not perfect, but it is a simple work around. If you have any trouble, I could probably make the .ini for you fairly quickly.

I think submersible is still a viable unit. It should be a later technology, to reflect the time required to perfect it (i.e. so it could deliever explosive charges without sinking itself :) ).

Regarding Veteran infantry, at the beginning of the war the South had better infantry largely because most Southern men grew up around guns, hunting, rustic living, etc. They could be considered more seasoned because they were tougher and probably better exposed to the harsher aspects of life.

Most Northern men grew up in cities and had never fired a gun in their lives, or if they had, probably only fired a pistol or revolver. Northerners were lousy shots, and they were city slickers who for the most part weren't used to living in the field.

So, the only side that can possibly benefit from acquiring more 'seasoned' troops would be the North, because the North had more 'unseasoned' men to start with. As the war drags on, the South will actually be loosing seasoned troops, because they don't have enough recruits to replace their losses. Ultimately this concept is reflected by attrition--the North can simply outproduce the South.

For balance, Southern units should start as veterans and a few elites, while the North has more units, but most of them should be conscripts and regulars. As the game progresses, those Northern conscripts and regulars will gain experience by winning battles. Also, the North will gradually build more barracks in it's cities, allowing them to produce more veteran units to start with (again, reflecting the seasoning of troops). Vice versa, as the game progresses, the South will be loosing it's more experienced units and it's production deficiency will make it difficult for the South to keep up with the losses.

Well, this took a bit longer than I thought it would. I think you have the beginnings of a great idea here.

Originally posted by Richard III
I'm trying to remember the US name for dragoons - and I know there is one - but I think you should distinguish between them and normal cavalry, with normal cavalry fighting at the levels mentioned, but dragoons having an infantry defence value and very low attack value.
What would the purpose of including them be? Scouting can be done by the relatively inexpensive Cavalry units, and the old days of massive charges of Lancers and Dragoons over a routed enemy died 40 years previous. Would they simply be 'cheapers scouts', or do you think they might have some other purpose?

I think Dragoons were primarily Napoleonic era cavalry units. If the US had any dragoons at the start of the Civil War, they were probably already obsolete. The future of cavalry were soldiers using repeating rifles; this combined mobility with firepower.

Originally posted by Ed O'War
Heres a link to Dark Sheers Bandit unit. IMHO, it looks more appropriate for Civil War era cavalry than the default cavalry unit that comes with the game. It will look great in Union blue or Confederate gray (in red, it looks kind of like a Canadian Mountie, too).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15638
Beautiful unit! I will certainly use this for Cavalry. Thank you for finding it, I didn't see it! :goodjob:

As for light artillery, a simple work around is to make a unit .ini that uses the standard cavalry graphic for movement, but the cannon graphics for default, attack and death. When it moves, it looks like cavalry, when it attacks it looks like artillery. It's not perfect, but it is a simple work around. If you have any trouble, I could probably make the .ini for you fairly quickly.
:eek:
Sheer brilliance! Wonderful idea, I'll certainly impliment this as well.

I think submersible is still a viable unit. It should be a later technology, to reflect the time required to perfect it (i.e. so it could deliever explosive charges without sinking itself :) ).
Hmmmm... I'm still not sure about this one. It would certainly spice up the naval units. Not sure what I'd use for a graphic though. Anyone have a graphic of a metal barrel? ;) :D

Regarding Veteran infantry, at the beginning of the war the South had better infantry largely because most Southern men grew up around guns, hunting, rustic living, etc. They could be considered more seasoned because they were tougher and probably better exposed to the harsher aspects of life.

Most Northern men grew up in cities and had never fired a gun in their lives, or if they had, probably only fired a pistol or revolver. Northerners were lousy shots, and they were city slickers who for the most part weren't used to living in the field.

So, the only side that can possibly benefit from acquiring more 'seasoned' troops would be the North, because the North had more men to start with. As the war drags on, the South will actually be loosing seasoned troops, because they don't have enough recruits to replace their losses. Ultimately this concept is reflected by attrition--the North can simply outproduce the South.

For balance, Southern units should start as veterans and a few elites, while the North has more units, but most of them should be conscripts and regulars. As the game progresses, those Northern conscripts and regulars will gain experience by winning battles. Also, the North will gradually build more barracks in it's cities, allowing them to produce more veteran units to start with (again, reflecting the seasoning of troops). Vice versa, as the game progresses, the South will be loosing it's more experienced units and it's production deficiency will make it difficult for the South to keep up with the losses.

Well, this took a bit longer than I thought it would. I think you have the beginnings of a great idea here.
I debated about how to impliment this.
Clearly, Union troops were much less experienced in all areas (especially horseback riding and marksmanship), while the Confederates had the advantage. I feel that a viable way to represent that would be your idea.
However, should the unit stats for both be the same? I'm not sure if they should be the same or not, with the experience difference. What do you think?

And I agree Ed on the part about Dragoons. The rifles of the time were simply too accurate and the Dragoons would be sliced to pieces in an attack.

More on it way...

-Guerillero by sween32 http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22289&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=10 12 and 13 down
A cheap unit the north has or both south and north.

-Bombard Cannon by JimmyH
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22289&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=11 13 and 14 down
??bombard of 6 replaces the one you had before so this is the weekest one???

-Marine(sailor) by Smoking Mirror
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22289&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=14 1st on on top
If you want to add any water attacks 6.6.1 amphioubis

-North Vietnamese Infantry by Sween32
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22289&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=14
3rd picture down
add it to the south for a good defence because he is used to the weather???

There are a few artillary but they are kinda modern. YOu tell me if you want them posted.

Trip:

I think the stats should be equal given the assumption that the technology is equal: i.e. both sides are using muzzle loading rifles which basically have the same capabilities, range, firepower, etc. The difference in quality or 'seasoning' should be reflected by experience levels. Less experienced units have fewer hit points and will thus will have statisically lower chance of surviving battle. Also, this allows Northern units to gain experience; some Northern units can, and will, eventually become the equals, if not the betters, of their Southern opponents in terms of battle experience.

If you decide to introduce an infantry unit that uses repeating rifles, then the unit stats should be changed because the technology itself is different/better. For example, a conscript unit with Sharpes repeating rifles still only has 2 hit points, but could have a really good chance of surviving an encounter with elite Southern muzzle rifle infantry because of the advantage imparted by faster firing rifles (especially if they are firing from an entrenched position) - the technology gives them an edge reflected in better unit stats.

Another idea for unit experience: I usually like to give my elite units 6 hit points instead of 5. This is just a personal preference that works out fine for me, and IMHO better reflects the effectiveness of elite units. So, the hit point progression would be: 2/3/4/6.

Other mods use a hit point progression of 2/4/6/8, which many people say works well for them, but I haven't tried this method myself. Just another idea for you to think about, if you haven't already.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by Ed O'War
Heres a link to Dark Sheers Bandit unit. IMHO, it looks more appropriate for Civil War era cavalry than the default cavalry unit that comes with the game. It will look great in Union blue or Confederate gray (in red, it looks kind of like a Canadian Mountie, too).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...&threadid=15638
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Beautiful unit! I will certainly use this for Cavalry. Thank you for finding it, I didn't see it!

That is the same unit as the Reiter. Hah it just has a different name.

Originally posted by realn


That is the same unit as the Reiter. Hah it just has a different name.

Yeah, I think the Reiter was based on the Bandit. However, the Reiter is supposed to represent Nazi calvary during the early part of WWII. If I remember correctly, that unit graphic has a coal-scuttle helmet instead of a wide-brimmed 'cowboy' hat.

BTW, the Bandit itself was a conversion of the standard Cavalry unit that comes with the game.

Ed, you bring up many good points.

I'll have to try to figure out how to have the experience advantage shift from the South to the North correctly though.. might take quite a lot of playtesting (you, of course, would be one of the first ones in line for the job, should you with to take it. ;)).

Unit values corrected.

Originally posted by Trip
Ed, you bring up many good points.

I'll have to try to figure out how to have the experience advantage shift from the South to the North correctly though.. might take quite a lot of playtesting (you, of course, would be one of the first ones in line for the job, should you with to take it. ;)).

Sure, I'd be happy to do some play testing for you. Between working on my own scenarios, of course. :)

With so much units being thrown at Trip I wonder if he getting them all. Well now I am going to sit back and wait till Trip has completed it.


NOTE: For scenario making placing units all over the place isn't a good idea. I played a scenario like that in civ2 and it is confusing. If you want many units all over have them in groups and have a good scenario readme to tell what is going on and where. Matter what have a good scenario readme, please.

Originally posted by Ed O'War
Sure, I'd be happy to do some play testing for you. Between working on my own scenarios, of course. :)
Of course. ;)
What do you plan on working on?

Originally posted by realn

NOTE: For scenario making placing units all over the place isn't a good idea. I played a scenario like that in civ2 and it is confusing. If you want many units all over have them in groups and have a good scenario readme to tell what is going on and where. Matter what have a good scenario readme, please.

I agree with realn: for scenarios, a good readme is very important. Of course, it will probably be the last thing you work on before releasing the final version of the scenario. :)

Originally posted by Trip

Of course. ;)
What do you plan on working on?

I'm thinking of doing a series of scenarios based on the Milton Bradley Game Master series: Axis & Allies, Conquest of Empire, Shogun/Samurai Swords and Fortress America. None of these would be nearly as intricate or detailed as the Civil War mod you're working on, though.

I'm also knocking around ideas for a couple of post-apocalyptic scenarios. These would probably be a little more detailed.

Just trying to get caught up realn, I have 2 boards to check up on and a lot of other things at once. ;)

Originally posted by realn
More on it way...

-Guerillero by sween32 http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22289&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=10 12 and 13 down
A cheap unit the north has or both south and north.
Hmmmm, I think a guerrilla would be more suited to have some kind of firearm.

-Bombard Cannon by JimmyH
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22289&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=11 13 and 14 down
??bombard of 6 replaces the one you had before so this is the weekest one???
That looks a bit old for the 19th century. ;)
What is that guy wearing, chainmail? :D

-Marine(sailor) by Smoking Mirror
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22289&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=14 1st on on top
If you want to add any water attacks 6.6.1 amphioubis
LoL, I don't know if I want any of the Confederates with machine guns. ;)

-North Vietnamese Infantry by Sween32
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22289&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=14
3rd picture down
add it to the south for a good defence because he is used to the weather???
Unfortunately it shows the soldier loading at the breech of the rifle, instead of the barrel. I'm trying to go for as much realism as possible. :)

There are a few artillary but they are kinda modern. YOu tell me if you want them posted.
I've already gone through all the unit graphics, I think. I have a lot of artillery ones especially. Thanks nonetheless. ;)

And don't worry, I'll have a readme before it's all through. That's part of what I made the first part of this thread for. :D

That sounds cool Ed, I'm sure with your knowledge you'll be able to make them very enjoyable to play, I'll have to check them out. :)

I went through the entire unit forum and checked them all out and see if they were even close to 19 century. :D Guarantee that you wont have to look through it again except new posts.;)

Originally posted by realn
I went through the entire unit forum and checked them all out and see if they were even close to 19 century. :D Guarantee that you wont have to look through it again except new posts.;)
Thanks, I appreciate the work! Now I can make sure I won't miss anything. :)

*Names one of the divisions in his scenario after realn for his service to the King*

:goodjob:

*Names one of the divisions in his scenario after realn for his service to the King*


Thanks. and I would love to playtest it also when it is done. I will notice anything that is lack of information. Since I know nothing.:D

Originally posted by realn
Thanks. and I would love to playtest it also when it is done. I will notice anything that is lack of information. Since I know nothing.:D
:lol:
You've been a help also, so I'll let you on the list as well. ;)

Also, this is a request to all people to review the current stats on all the units. I want them to be as balanced as possible, and I'm sure I'll be able to work out a few kinks between now and D-Hour if I have your guys' help.

Trip:

I had another idea for an artillery unit: Mortar. It could have a shorter bombardment range, but a higher bombardment strength. Of course, considering that you are already going to have two or three different artillery units, you may not want to implement yet another artillery unit.

Do you have all the graphics for all the units. Like the "conscript" what art are you using for that? Can you and an X to the ons that you have no art for it.

I was planning to talk to the person that made the Guerillero and ask if he could equip it with a firearm.

Originally posted by Ed O'War
Trip:

I had another idea for an artillery unit: Mortar. It could have a shorter bombardment range, but a higher bombardment strength. Of course, considering that you are already going to have two or three different artillery units, you may not want to implement yet another artillery unit.
I think 3 Artillery units for 5 years is enough. ;)
Besides, the role of Light Artillery covers that of the Mortar with the added bonus of more mobility.

Realn, one of the things that I would appreciate most at this point is customized graphics. Right now, all of the infantry graphics will be covered by the default Civ 3 "Rifleman" graphic. That seems to cover things nicely, unless people wanted to get incredibly detailed graphics, and I doubt a better match could be found.
I think the only units I don't have graphics for are: Ferry, Rifled Artillery (technically I don't have one; I'm going to use the howitzer graphic though), Raiders/Guerillas, and an 'official' graphic for Light Artillery.

Originally posted by Ed O'War
I think Dragoons were primarily Napoleonic era cavalry units. If the US had any dragoons at the start of the Civil War, they were probably already obsolete. The future of cavalry were soldiers using repeating rifles; this combined mobility with firepower.

I'm afraid you've got your history backwards; that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Dragoons are mounted infantry, not cavalry. Any civil war buffs in the thread will know that cavalry units in the war tended to adopt distinct styles, some using sabres and charging and trying to be cool cavalry types, while others used their horses to close and fight on foot, acting as swift units used to take and hold railway junctions or be the vangaurd for larger armies. I think the distinction is interesting, and important, and for a larger battle, it would be cool to have the option of both. At the war's beginning, either side would have more cavalry than dragoons (and no doubt would build more of the latter over time).

And as for repeating rifle infantry, one way to limit their use would be to make their maintenance costs much higher to reflect the heavy expenditure of ammunition.

R.III

The following article touches on the cavalry distinctions...

http://www.ehistory.com/uscw/features/regimental/cavalry.cfm

Richard III's link was good. It told you about all those different cavalry. What you are missing is the saber. It has talked about a few things when the saber was used (but wasn't effective). Make it a weaker cheaper unit that the south a forced to use by the end of the war.

I have a game called "Cossacks" a industrial war game. This scenario keeps making me think of it. I am going to load it up again (since I only played it once, its boring, but very, very historic) and see what the units are called and if they have something similar to a civilopedia and I could lend you a few things off the “Cossacks” game, and maybe I can get people to convert of few of the “Cossack” units to civ III.

NOTES: The game ends around 18th century maybe we can get something... done installing...If you want to check it out there is a demo of it at http://www.strategyfirst.com/scripts/Redir.asp?sLanguageCode=EN&sSectionName=Games&iGameID=16
but your probably too busy.

I've played Cossacks, and it's a good game. I don't like how it's so tactical like Starcraft, or other RTS games though. I like to build up cities and stuff in one large campaign, not just dink around on tactical maps and build up a new infrastructure each 'scenario'.

But that's a good thing that you brought up, and if we could get some people to convert some of the graphics off of that into flics I can use, it would be great. Normally, I just use the Chinese Rider unit to represent 'saber cavalry'.

Another thing...

I've made all of the art/animation files and created the appropriate folders. Once I'm ready to release the first verison of the full scenario, I'll be able to package the "Modifying" unit and leader graphics into a .ZIP file, along with an "Undo" .ZIP that will undo the changes done by the first .ZIP. People will be able to simply extract the file into their Civ 3 folder and everything will be completed. Of course, there might be a couple bugs so before release I'll need to have it tested thoroughly to make sure there aren't any things I've missed.

First I found there are some pictures of the units. Could you tell me how to add pictures to post?

The Civilopedia. This is a must for someone that is new to a scenario. There are alot of facts that we could copy and edit. Like the Dragoons and Rifled barrel(Tech in cossacks). Also there is granular gunpower. You can edit an era in the techtree. You dont need to created an entire techtree just one era. I think that the Rifled Barrel is the Rifleman and Granular gunpower increasing att. by 2. Cossacks is the perfect place for Artillery. Another Civilopedia entry is grenediers.
By the way I could make the civilopedia. The civilopedia is something like a webpage(make links here, copy paste this).
So what you think?

Once I design tech tree, then feel free to help out with the Civilopedia. I'm sure that soon I'll be so busy I can't worry about that anyways, so help would be appreciated. ;) You can start writing stuff up if you want to have a base to work off of later (i.e. you can come up with a little something about Rifled Barrels, and whatnot).

not sure if you are looking for a hodge-podge of unit ideas, but here are some other suggestions:

instead of just 1 type of Army unit always containing the same number of units (3 or 4)...i thought it would be cool if you could have Armies, Regiments, Brigades, etc...

Zouave units - these were pretty popular at the start of the war by both sides. Uniforms were modelled after the French North African army and varied alot from state to state. These regiments had reputations for being good soldiers and hell raisers. By the end of the war, only the North was still using them as the south couldn't afford the uniforms. Most came from Louisiana, New York, and Pennsylvania. In fact lots of militia and city regiments were inspired by European customs. There were even some lancer and hussar units at the start of the Civil War that would later be replaced by carbines.

Sharpshooters - high attack low defense

Militia - good cheap unit

Rangers (ie: Texas Rangers) - fast movement

Picketline - low attack med or high defense

Field Hospital - Well I'm not sure how to implement this, but these could be a mobile unit that can heal fast (similar to being fortified in a city?), even on enemy terrain.

Engineers/Demolition Crews - Build/Blow-Up bridges, roads, etc. basically a worker unit but with a low attack/defense as well

I agree with the others that some sort of Partisan/Raider/Guerilla units should be available to both sides as these were highly used throughout the war. Preferrably mounted with faster movement than standard calvary.

If you decide to incorporate the West,
Buffalo Soldiers
Indian Soldiers/Scouts

Have wool as a resource...so when the South starts running out of it their uniforms will reflect it. At the start of the war, the South had extremely high uniform standards. This quickly changed to the standard gray, and then by the last couple of years, uniforms weren't a requirement leading to many 'Barefoot' soldiers (basically farmers with guns - can be another unit even).

Just some ideas.

May be out of print but::::::

In the late 70s. (yes Seventies) I used to play hex based board war games with collegues. We could not buy them in the UK. So we had them shipped over from the USA.

I subscribed to a monthly magazine called "Strategy & Tactics" from Simulation Publications based at 44 East 23rd St. New York N.Y.

They used to print lots of detailed info on war including the American Civil War. ( Units, strenths, locations etc.) They even produced a board game in one issue.

The point is if they still publish or not you may be able to find info from library archives.

Thanks for all of the assistance guys! I'll try to make it up to all of you by the time I'm finished.

Nojobnoodlez: Still looking for units, so thanks. I'll probably take a look in depth at the list tomorrow morning once I start placing units on the map.

Harrier: I'll try to look into that. I'm sure it would be very helpful. :)

Progress report:
All of the cities and most of the tile improvements have been added to the map. I'm going to run an initial test run to see if everything works good, and if so, I'll probably finish up all of the tile improvements by the end of today. Tomorrow morning I'll probably start working on units. :)

Originally posted by Harrier
May be out of print but::::::

In the late 70s. (yes Seventies) I used to play hex based board war games with collegues. We could not buy them in the UK. So we had them shipped over from the USA.

I subscribed to a monthly magazine called "Strategy & Tactics" from Simulation Publications based at 44 East 23rd St. New York N.Y.

They used to print lots of detailed info on war including the American Civil War. ( Units, strenths, locations etc.) They even produced a board game in one issue.

The point is if they still publish or not you may be able to find info from library archives.

Their civil war strategic game issue was a masterpiece. I still miss it. Have never seen a better summary of the war under one cover, and the game wasn't so bad either.

I've run into a big problem. The scenario doesn't want to load the two civs correctly. It always defaults to the Union side when both civs should be playable, except your opponent is listed on the right as the Confederates, but you have no choice of which civ. And another problem is that either side can build any unit (even if it's a UU you shouldn't have... all Union cities were producing "Confederate Raiders", for some reason), and the whole thing is messed up. I tried making it so that only the Confederates are playable, and you get the Southern cities and the name "Confederate States of America", but all your cities are blue instead of grey, and your leader is "President Lincoln of the Confederates"... :( I'm thoroughly confused, and I've tried every combo of scenario and player settings, and the thing is still messed up. Hopefully I can talk to the Firaxians tomorrow about it. I think all the problems are related, but I can't be sure.

I didn't get a chance to finish the tile improvements yet (since I was trying to fix that huge problem), so I'll do that and the units in the morning.

As always, all help, advice and suggestions are welcome. :)

Tomorrow morning I am going on a vacation to the East Coast of America. I will bring my laptop but I will only posting once a week. If you could email me at Trip of the civilopedia entries you need then I would do that. Just give me a list like:

UNITS: (Samples)
Cavalry
Riflemen

BUILDINGS:
Blacksmith
Workshop
Plantation

TECHS:
Rifle Burial

Then I will be posting a reply with the civilopedia and telling my progress.

-There are alot of good examples people have given. He just needs graphics.

Thanks for the help realn.
Once I get to the point where I need the Civilopedia updated I'll email with the necessities. Have a good trip (so to speak ;)). :)

Maybe it has to do with only 2 players allowed?
I think you might need to increase that. Make England stuck on an island and france on another with nothing except on city. Also add the indians and spain and you got 6 civs
But I dont think that is the problem but give it a try

More info on "Strategy & Tactics" magazine.

Ive been up in the loft (storage space) trying to find my copy of the Civil War issue. (If I still have it!!) No luck yet, but I found a reference to it.

It was Issue number 43. I think it was published in either 1974 or 1975.

I will let you know if I find my old copy.

Ick... While trying to fix that big problem, it seems that I somehow deleted all of the North's cities. Back to the drawing board. :(

I recall with the 1.21 editor that when you assign players, one of them has to be the human player and the others are computer controlled. I thought this would have been changed for 1.29, but fooling around with the editor last night I see that it's still the same way. You might have to release two versions of the .bic, one for the North and one for the South.

If you don't mind, maybe you could post a version of the .bic with your work in progress so we can take a look at it.

The final .BIC will be released all at once as soon as I'm finished, but here's a tease. :) I re-did all of the Union cities, and here's the mini-map view of the map currently. I don't think I'll go further west, since it will simply be more needless micromanagement and anything further west didn't have much impact on the war.

I was just thinking that two heads (or two dozen heads) are better than one for helping to resolve the problems you encountered. Perhaps we would be able to point out something you missed, for example. But it's just a suggestion. Either way, I'm looking forward to playtesting your scenario.

Originally posted by Ed O'War
I was just thinking that two heads (or two dozen heads) are better than one for helping to resolve the problems you encountered. Perhaps we would be able to point out something you missed, for example. But it's just a suggestion. Either way, I'm looking forward to playtesting your scenario.
I think I may have figured it out, but thanks. Dan is helping me out with the scenario anyways, so it shouldn't be a problem. :)

All tile improvements and cities are done. I have to modify the population of the South though... it's only supposed to be 5.5 million max, but it's up over 12 million. I think the Union may also be at 26 million or so also. Almost ready for units. :D

Any chance we might be seeing this released by the end of the day?

Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be done by the end of today. I still have all city improvements to add (in about 100 or so cities), a lot of units to place (luckily the auto-fortify and auto-unfortify will make playing it easier), and playtesting like you wouldn't believe. I'll try to finish it up though as soon as I can, since I want to play it as much as you guys do. :) I'm anxious to finish the first "real Civilization III scenario" ever! :D

I have just read over this thread being a Civil War fanatic among other things and i am amazed that you havent thought of Britian or France. Either of the mcould have gotton into the war due to confederate cotton or if the confederacy had freed their slaves. Britian could be represented by Canada, but France could not be entered into the war. That would also give the confederacy a diplomatic front as well while trying to get the Europeons on their side.

Also what about the Gatling guns? During this period a man named gatling had developed a machine gun. if you could make something like that into the scenario, a VERY expensive, high attack and even higher defence then it would be perfect. Also an attack benefit for the Confederates would be a good representation of the South's will to fight.

There's a few suggestions, can't wait for the whole scenario

If there were a way to control diplomacy, or some kind of event triggers, then including France & England would be a great idea. However, as the editor is now, including France & England would probably result in some unusal situations and would probably just unbalance the scenario. I mean, what if Britain and France decide to declare war against the South, too? Or what if they declare war on one another: admittedly this is historically possible, but then the focus could end up shifting from the North & South to the British & French.

If Firaxis ever releases event triggers, then I think revising the scenario (or simply making a new one) to include the European powers would be a cool addition.

Good point but still the Civil War could have turned into a global conflict with the time's tensions in Europe. But you are right chances are with the current AI Britian and France will end up declaring war on both sides or something which would be absolutely rediculous.

Originally posted by Ed O'War
If there were a way to control diplomacy, or some kind of event triggers, then including France & England would be a great idea. However, as the editor is now, including France & England would probably result in some unusal situations and would probably just unbalance the scenario. I mean, what if Britain and France decide to declare war against the South, too? Or what if they declare war on one another: admittedly this is historically possible, but then the focus could end up shifting from the North & South to the British & French.

If Firaxis ever releases event triggers, then I think revising the scenario (or simply making a new one) to include the European powers would be a cool addition.
Agreed. The focus is on the fight between the North and the South, and if something ended up taking the stage other than that, then that would ruin the point of the scenario. The point isn't to replay history from 1861, it's the American Civil War. :)

Here's a demo screenshot. I'm playing the Confederates, and the screenshot is of northern Virginia.

Thanks for the screenshot Trip; that looks great! When do we get to play? :) Please post a few more screenshots, when you have time.

Alright, sure thing. I still have a problem involving both sides being able to use UUs for some reason. That and I have to finish placing units. I only have artillery and garrisons placed in the South, and nothing so far in the North except that which borders Virginia. For the scenario while playing the South, watch out for those Washington fortifications. Behind a river bonus (which I bumped from 25% to 50%, so watch out for all rivers), along with the fortifications and Zone of Control attack makes that thing a beast. Even though they're only manned by Conscripts, their defense value goes allllll the way up to 18.

Here's a few stats on both sides currently:

Union
Population: 25,430,000
Most Shields: 34 per turn (Philadelphia)
GPT: 1,591 (431 lost to corruption)
Communications Hub (AKA Forbidden Palace:) Lexington Kentucky
The Union has 8 cities with greater production than the greatest production of the Confederacy (Richmond).

Confederacy
Population: 12,560,000
Most Shields: 15 per turn (Richmond)
GPT: 1,001 (~200 lost to corruption)
Communications Hub: Atlanta Georgia

Here's a screenshot of western Tennessee, where much of the action in the west during 1862 took place.

*drools*

Must you taunt us so?! ;).

Looks great, can't wait!

Sorry, still got some bugs. :) I'm not going to release an unfinished product. *ahem*Firaxis*unahem* ;) :D Just kidding.

I did some tweaking with the map. From that screenshot I could see that Birmingham Alabama was about where the southern border of Tennessee was supposed to be, so I did some city swapping. I'll update the screenshot. If you see the same thing, then refresh the page.

Is EVERYONE using that graphics mod? Am I the only holdout?

I must admit, I too drooled. Literally, no joke. I salivated at the sight of it.

R.III

Oh and shouldn't Savannah and/or Charleston be an objective city? Just a thought, since the harbors were sort of key, and that forces the union to do a bit more than throw three pincers out at random.

Also makes the Union's heavy use of amphibious ops to seize the coastal forts and harbors worthwhile in the game.

Great work, all the same.

R.III

I'm glad people are excited. I know I am. :D
It still may be a few days before playtesting is finished though... and I still have to design the tech tree. Other than that though, I'm nearly finished.

I may post some screenshots of the North soon also. Any requests for specific locations? :)

Btw, I made Charleston an objective as well. You're right about how it should be one... I wonder why I missed it. :confused:

May I make a comment or two?

I think the Confederate Cav should have some benefit(s) as they were better horsemen. Also did you think of making unique armies? Confederate Corps were much larger then thier Union Counterparts, although they had fewer. Perhaps a Confederate Army would hold an extra unit? Eventually there were African Americans fighting for the Union, and contrary to popular belief for the Confederates as well. Try to give the Confederates some slight advantages, as they had some to. The lower quality Confederate units should be cheaper, not by much. Both sides had ships which either took part of an old wooden vessel (or with the Galena a wooden vessel with Iron armor on the sides.) and converted it to an Ironcald. Many Confederate vessels were converted riverboats of some form or another (the General Brag comes to mind here.)

Anyways good luck! I'll want to try it out myself!

Originally posted by sela1s1son
May I make a comment or two?
Of course. :)

I think the Confederate Cav should have some benefit(s) as they were better horsemen.
Ed stated this well, but I'll try to summarize. The actual unit values are representations of technology. The Confederate and Union (land) technology was virtually identical. The values should be as well. However, all of Confederate Cavalry will be Veteran status, while all Union Cavalry will be Regulars to make up for this. In addition, (nearly) all South's cities have a Barracks, while none of the North's have them. That will give the South the quality advantage for some time until the Union can build some Barracks. The only unit the Confederates can draft is the "Draftee", which is much weaker and has lower HP than regular Riflemen. On the same note, the Union can draft Riflemen.
Therefore, the South's superior quality is clearly obvious early in the war, but as the war drags on, the Union builds more Barracks, and the South is forced to draft highly inferior units to replace losses.

Also did you think of making unique armies? Confederate Corps were much larger then thier Union Counterparts, although they had fewer. Perhaps a Confederate Army would hold an extra unit?
Hmmm. I may just deal with this by using seperate units and having different names for them "1st Corps Rifleman", etc. If you have 6 unit Confederate Corps and 5 unit Federal Corps, then whoever wins destroys 5 or more units in 1 combat, while that army will most likely live to see another day, and rebuild it's strength to full, only to destroy more units/armies in the same way. I don't want this kind of thing happening, so if I include Armies at all, they will include a very small number of divisions (units).

Eventually there were African Americans fighting for the Union, and contrary to popular belief for the Confederates as well. Try to give the Confederates some slight advantages, as they had some to. The lower quality Confederate units should be cheaper, not by much.
The thing about this is that many of the 'inferior' Confederate units (mostly artillery, ships) were inferior simply because they were hard to obtain/manufacture. Confederate Artillery and Naval Vessals are more expensive and weaker than the Union's because the resources and facilities to manufacture these were very hard to come by in the South, especially after the blockade was enacted in full force.

Both sides had ships which either took part of an old wooden vessel (or with the Galena a wooden vessel with Iron armor on the sides.) and converted it to an Ironcald. Many Confederate vessels were converted riverboats of some form or another (the General Brag comes to mind here.)
Hmmm. I have Ironclads (duh), and "Warships", which are basically every other kind of ship (wooden or converted), and a "Gunboat" unit for use in the rivers.

Anyways good luck! I'll want to try it out myself!
Great! Hope you like it, I've spent some time on it, and it should be fun to play after I finish it and playtest it some. :)

Good to hear the Confederates get the Barracks! Sounds VERY realistic! :-) I figured you'd have Ironclads... and I saw you did when I first saw this thread. ;-)

I can see the problem. I've just found the size of the corps, because I wargame and deal with minature soldiers. That's a difference between the armies that I've found interesting. With the way you put it, you do bring up a good point.

Anywhoo, do you have an estimated date of release, or am I going to have to learn how to hold my breath. ;-)

E-mail me when this is done, if that's not a problem:
sela1s1son@charter.net

Thanks! :goodjob:

Originally posted by sela1s1son
Good to hear the Confederates get the Barracks! Sounds VERY realistic! :-) I figured you'd have Ironclads... and I saw you did when I first saw this thread. ;-)
Well, I can't say all of these ideas are mine. I owe a lot of credit to Ed for his suggestions. :)

I can see the problem. I've just found the size of the corps, because I wargame and deal with minature soldiers. That's a difference between the armies that I've found interesting. With the way you put it, you do bring up a good point.
The fact is that Civ isn't a wargame, and that's not what it's shaped towards either. I've played a game called "Empires in Arms", which deals with the Napoleonic Wars. All of the 'units' are represented in corps, so I know their importance. Unfortunately, I feel that Armies would only have an extremely detrimental effect on this scenario, so I'm not going to include them. :(

Anywhoo, do you have an estimated date of release, or am I going to have to learn how to hold my breath. ;-)

E-mail me when this is done, if that's not a problem:
sela1s1son@charter.net

Thanks! :goodjob:
I hope to have everything done in 3 or 4 days. I'll certainly email it to you (if I remember ;)). Thanks for the comments, suggestions and the interest! :)

You bet. It's going to be great. Also thanks to Ed! ;-) I am fortunate to have been a CW fanatic since 4th grade. ;-) Thanks to my father and wargaming for that, and I'm glad I am a fanatic. I'm only 17 (may be a surprise.), but I'm fairly knowledgable in history and physics so I hope my advice doesn't seem stupid. ;-) I'm so excited, a CW scenario! Hoo Hoo!

Don't worry, I'm only 17 also. ;)
Double major in History and Computer Science (big surprise when you think about it, eh? ;)), and I've always loved reading about different wars and history in general. I got into the Civil War a lot a few months ago, read a big book about it. I just got a case of Civil War fever a few days before the patch came out, and started making my Eastern US map for this scenario. 5 days and dozens of hours later, here I am. :) Hopefully I'll finish soon... these dizzy headaches are starting to get to me. :crazyeye: Not sure how long my poor brain can hold out. :p

You should handle it very well. ;-) Looks like you're doing a superb job, so I trust your head won't implode. ;-)

Good to see other Civil War freaks out there too. I can't wait for your scenario to come out. Hopefully afterwards you are in the mood to make a How Few Remain scenario too. I think that you should take my suggestion for Gatling guns though. You could make it a high priced high defence medium attack weapon. Had they gotton involved into the war the war could have been brought to a quick finish.

Originally posted by EQandcivfanatic
Good to see other Civil War freaks out there too. I can't wait for your scenario to come out. Hopefully afterwards you are in the mood to make a How Few Remain scenario too. I think that you should take my suggestion for Gatling guns though. You could make it a high priced high defence medium attack weapon. Had they gotton involved into the war the war could have been brought to a quick finish.
I think the Gatling/Carbines unit basically covers that. The unit is 'basically' units with repeating rifles of various types. They have much higher defense and attack ratings.

My next scenario I plan on making is one about Napoleon, but that could change. :)

The big problem with Gatlings is they were late war and had horrid jamming problems (even during the conflicts with the Indians). So that should be considered.

Unfortunately, Firaxis didn't include a "Jams on occation" unit property flag, so I'll have to think about how to work that later. ;)
Anyways, I'm going to hit the sack now (so to speak :p).
Nite everyone, I'll be back tomorrow morning to work on it some more. :D

'Til then...

Originally posted by Trip
Anyways, I'm going to hit the sack now (so to speak :p).
Nite everyone, I'll be back tomorrow morning to work on it some more. :D

WHAT!!! Who said you could sleep?

Get back to work!! Now!! No rest! Who said anything about rest?

:cry: :hammer: :sad:

lol. This looks like a good scenario. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for it to finish, aand if it isn't soon i might fall over and hurt myself! :lol:

Originally posted by Trip

Well, I can't say all of these ideas are mine. I owe a lot of credit to Ed for his suggestions. :)


*Ed O'War stands to take a bow* :)

Seriously, it looks like your Civil War scenario is shaping up great. I'm really looking forward to giving this one a try.

Thanks for your patience everyone. ;)
I'll probably be done with the actual content today, but there's still a few days of testing to weed out the bugs... there's a lot of people waiting for this one, and I don't want to disappoint them when their game freezes. :)

I've done some changes to the map, so I'll update the objective mini-map in the first summary post.

Btw, here's a screenshot of the area around Washington.

in another screenshot of the confedarates, it showed 1 or 2 cities building Union Volunteers! i think you should change that in the editor

Originally posted by Civanator
in another screenshot of the confedarates, it showed 1 or 2 cities building Union Volunteers! i think you should change that in the editor
I know I know. :( I think it may be a problem with the editor...
The "Union Volunteers" unit is officially set for only the North, but for some reason, either side can build any unit, unique or not... so the North can build "Confederate Draftees" as well. :( I'm trying to get Mike to help me, hopefully he can help fix it.

oh. there's a bug! :lol:

i know how to fix it. Go into the editor, rules, units, and go through all of the union units and use ctrl+click on the confedarate country, and confedarate units to the union

You mean, how I already had it like this? :)

A pity it still doesn't work. :p

menu where you choose your nation. There is an option there that says no unique units or all civs alike or something to that effect. You may have that checked in either the starting screen or on the editor scenario properties

Originally posted by EQandcivfanatic
menu where you choose your nation. There is an option there that says no unique units or all civs alike or something to that effect. You may have that checked in either the starting screen or on the editor scenario properties
Ahhh, thanks I'll check it. :)

I haven't done much work with the editor before, other than working on the map.

Where is it? :p

Under Scenario Properties. It is called Civ-Specific Abilities. Everyone getting the same unit was also one of the many problems i had in the past 24 hours working on my Everquest map. If that is already checked, on the screen where you select your player, they same option in also there. it may be unchecked. If it isn't either of those things it must be some kind of bug.

Blech... you were right, that was it...

I thought that only referred to civ-specific traits, like Industrious, Militaristic, etc. Oh well. :o :mad:

Glad to help

Thanks, that's takes a lot of weight off my shoulders. :)
Now all I have to do is finish designing things... Both navies are placed now, but I have to test how they work. I'm afraid the Confederate navy will just go out and get themselves sunk on the first turn. :(

That's what they did historically, the AI will most likey build more anyway.

yah, dont worry.

Actually on the Mississippi they did alright, but not great. Set up forts along the Miss. with guns overlooking them (with an infantry unit or two.)
Unless the Miss. is a basic river then it doesn't matter, altough Fort Donaldson was as much a naval as land battle!

trip, for a brigde over the mississippi you can make roads go on coastal squares

Or as another suggestion for the Mississippi you could make cities like Vicksburg, New Orleans, and Memphis act as brigdes and passages for confederate ships. This could represent the Confederate control of the river at the start of the war.

I've already done the city bridge thing, and there's quite a few. Here's a list of them:
New Orleans Louisiana, Vicksburg Mississippi, Memphis Tennessee, Cairo Illinois, Louisville Kentucky, Ashland Kentucky, and Wheeling West Virginia.

And yes, the rivers are coastal tiles instead of regular rivers. :)

I'll probably stick a few artillery in some of those cities now.

Alright, I'm working on techs now. Any suggestions? Right now, all I have is "Advanced Rifling" which allows Rifled Artillery, and "Reliable Repeating Rifle" (kinda catchy, eh? ;)) for Carbines.

Suggestions for techs and their effects is what I'm looking for specifically.

I think those are fine because its a war scenario--there shouldn't be many (if any) techs.

Plus, Anything to get this released faster :goodjob:!

i agree with Toasty. Just make the map quickly add the techs later if people like us who are desperate for the best possible want it. For now though i am with Toasty, the sooner the better.

Well that's not very helpful. :p
I've probably got dozens of people expecting the ultimate scenario. You're trying to give me a case of "Firaxis Fever". ;) I don't want to have to release patches on a scenario ya know! ;) :D

Well, Lets try to help a little here...
Tech Thoughts--Not a lot of techs necessary---

Tech Ideas
Possibly Categories

Naval
Transports
Barges
River Craft
Reg. Transports
Frigates-Wooden
Iron Clads
Submarine ???
Land
Infantry
Conscripted Inf
Rifled Units
Adv. Rifle Unit
Repeating Rifle Unit
Cavalry
Light Cav
Cavalry
Artillery
4 pdr
6 pdr
8 pdr
Mortars
Gatling Gun-Navy 1862/Army 1866
Grapeshot--Cannister
Special
Generals
Raiders
Labor workers
Slaves
Ballons-Observation of Battlefield for Artillery range
Liquid Fire

You've got
1. Advanced Rifling
2. Reliable Repeating Rifle
Add
3. Rifling (most units used muskets with very poor accuracy) This allows for 4 levels of infantry
4. Leadership--allows for creation of armies/Generals
5. Air Observation

All I can come up with tonight.. Will have to look at it tomorrow..



Web Page for Civil War Weapons--just one (http://165.29.91.7/classes/humanities/amstud/97-98/weapons/CIVIL~1.HTM)

Also, BTW, take your time I would rather see it come out right or close to it, than succumb to peer pressure to realise an early project.. Patience will ensure we see a great final project.. Thanks for your effort..

Mark

Trip do you have AOLIM, ICQ, or MSN Messenger?
I need to talk to you about scenario editing when you have time.
You have run into similar problems as me I am expecting, and I could use some of your help if you have time.
Thanks

Pap

Thanks AAGamer, I'll use a lot of that. :)
And don't worry, I'm going to take my time and finish this thing right. A lot is riding on this scenario, and I don't want people to be disappointed.

Pap: I have all three.
I haven't used ICQ in forever, so I forget my #. AIM name is NeroTrip. MSN Messenger (which I use more than either of the others) is GuardianOfTime@hotmail.com. Hopefully I can be helpful. :)

Trip you are welcome.. If you need a little help I have time off this summer.. Advantages of a teacher.. Cannot make graphics however... Others ask.. Let me know and Thanks!!!

Instant Messenger: AandAGamer

If you're going to use submersibles, then that should be a separate tech, probably late game.

Conscription - Allows drafting (may have been mentioned already)

You can probably keep a lot of the late Middle Ages/early Industrial technologies: Military Tradition, Nationalism, Espionage, Steam Power, Steel, Corporation, Medicine, etc. You probably already thought of this, but I thought I'd mention it anyway, for the sake of thoroughness.

Also, I was wondering what you were going to do about Wonders, especially the Major Wonders. Some ideas:

Emancipation Proclamation (replaces Universal Suffrage). If you want to keep the South from building this, make it a government specific wonder, and give the North a different form of government (just call it the Union government, and the South can have the Confederate government).

Naval Blockade (North): Replaces Magellan's Expedition

Total Warfare (alternatively, Mobilization): Replaces Sun Tzu's Academy - Total Warfare is the concept of waging war on the enemy's ability to wage war, destroying not only military forces but industrial and economic infrastructure as well. Represented by Sherman's march to the sea.

Standardization: Replaces Leonardo's Workshop - Specifying standardized equipment for military forces makes it easy to upgrade those units when new technology becomes available.

Evangelism: Increases the effectiveness of Cathedrals - Periodically a religious revival sweeps the country, sometimes referred to as Evangelism (or Evangelical Movement). Not sure if this happened specifically during the Civil War, but even if didn't, it was certainly a possiblity.

Hope these ideas help some. If I have any more ideas I'll post them here.

Good ideas Ed.

I'll comment on them all individually after while (I have to go run some errands), but those look like good possibilities. Some techs that are a possibility: Steam Power (Ironclads), Conscription (Great way to keep all those cities from building stupid weak units to start off with!), Total Warfare, Submersibles (need grahpic), Standardization, and maybe a couple others. I don't want Wonders to take that much of a place in the game though, so I'll have to work on balancing that (as of now I've deleted all wonders).

Progress Report: Done with unit placement. Both land and naval forces in place. I only have conscript, defending Riflemen near the border (to prevent a rush in any one area), and 3 'armies' (not the unit) for each side placed in the East, West and in between. Needs more playtesting, but things are looking good. More later.

Trip, I just thought of something, how about a Foreign Affairs Element.

The South was constantly courting England and France for support, in fact English companies even built ships for the Souther Navy (armed elsewhere of course to keep "neutrality"). And the Emancepation Procliamation basically ensured England didn't enter the war, since it was now a war to free the slaves, and the English public was apposed to slavery.

However, I don't think you can "edit" the effects of a wonder with such detail (increasing a Foreign countries war wariness for allying with your enemy against you).

I understand if you want to keep it simple for now. But, adding elements of Europe could add an interesting element to the scenario itself.

I had already mentioned that earlier, but i think we agreed that without a trigger editor like the triggers in Starcraft or Warcraft 3 making the Europeons involved would be useless.

EQandcivfanatic is right. We don't have enough diplomacy controls to ensure that something weird like Britain and France teaming up with the North to pound the South into oblivion (stuff that could/would never happen). If it were possible to excercize more control over the starting situation in the editor, then I would have already done that. Another thing I'd like to include would be increasing war-weariness for the North compared to the South. High war-weariness almost cripples whatever country you have (so I edited it down to low for Democracy), so I that isn't an option. I'll just have low war-weariness for both countries.

Good thinking. except i would lower it to none for the game as there were rarely riots during the war except in small northern towns where thye locals were Democrats.

I tried playing with regular Democracy, and after about 10 turns, about 2/3 of my citizens were unhappy, and the game was simply unplayable. I have to do some testing and see if the same thing happens with low war-weariness.

It's true that there were no major incidents involving war-weariness, but it was commonly believed that if the war dragged on too long without results, then the North's people would simply call for an armistice. I want to reflect that somehow. :p
Also, if it were possible to add citizens of different nationalities, I would make some Confederates in Missouri, Kentucky and Maryland since there were many Confederate-loyal people living there (they were South/slave states, after all), which caused quite a ruckus at the start of the war.

But you can add citizens. I am not sure if it will work with the new version, but Gramphos save editor can add citizens of different nationalities.

Or if you dont want that try the North with a low ar weariness and have the Sout hat No war weariness. This would give the south a well needed advantage.

In all realities most democratic countries would be considered "republics" in Civ 3. (One reson why I flipped Civ 3 Democracy and Republic) and Democracies would be more like confederations or Athenian democracies. I'd set the Confederacy as Democrats (Most democrats supported them as they believed in stronger state governments, and thier preisdent was a Democrat) and the the Union as a Republic (Lincoln was a Republican, and most Replublicans were northern sympathizers who believed in the strong federal government.) They don't call the Army of the Potomac "1st Army of the Republic" for nothing you know! Also look at the Pledge, 'the Republic for which it stands'. So that's what I'd do.

I basically made Democracy act like Republic, so there's no problem there. If I actually had it named "Republic", I'm sure someone would complain, so I'll just leave the name. :p

I added a tech "Medical Textbooks" which allows the construction of the Battlefield Medicine small wonder.

Anyways, progress update:
I think I'm finished with everything. I'm entering the first phase of testing, and once that's done (a couple days), then I will be able to release the scenario.

yaay! [dance] [dance]:bday:

Eek! Wednesday I leave from Wisconsion to Lancaster, PA to go to historic-con! A wargaming convention, and a big one at that.
PLEASE release it before then... I'll... I'll... give you a billion *coughMonopoly* dollars! ;-)

A wargaming convention!? How come nobady told me. what war game?

Just to tease you all more, here's the prelude to the "First Battle of Manassas". There was already the "Battle of Fredericksburg" in which I took out 4 Union Riflemen (lucky for me ;)), and I'm about to the next one. :)

Historic-con is a large (LARGE!) Historical minatures (AKA wargames) that takes place in Lancaster, PA. It's this weekend (starting Thursday IIRC). I gave the description above, so people not familiar with wargaming may understand, so I won't have to follow up with definitions. ;-)

The group I'm in is putting on most likley the largest English Civil War game ever. They'll be using Warhammer English Civil War.

They got American Civil War? Or Axis and Allies?

They may, I'm not totally sure. They'll have WWII and ACW games for sure. I don't know about boardgames.

I have to admit Trip, I have a tiny concern about the lack of rivers in the key theatre in Northern Virginia. One reason for all the hassle to take Richmond was that there were several rivers (like the James?) on the path of the Union armies, and many of them were big-ass tidal estuaries in that area as well. Fredericksburg was so hard to take because one of those rivers was in the way.

Anyway to deal with this?

The picky but still quite excited R.III

Ok Trip, this is getting cruel about now.. Do you still have any blank spots that need to be filled... If so ask I am sure some of us can help out..

Mark

Trip - Richard III is right about the rivers.

Fredricksburg has the Rappahannock.
Richmond the James.

There are lots of rivers to the coast, further down the map such as:

River- nearest City

Delaware - Philadelphia.
Susquehanna - Harrisburg.

Tar - near not next to Raleigh.
Cape Fear - next to Wilmington.
SanTec - Columbia.
Savannah - Savannah.
Chatahoochie - Columbus and Atlanta.

Alabama - Selma, Montgomery
Tombigbee - Selma (again)

The above two join near the coast before Mobile.

Sabine - Sabine

Plus a few smaller coastal ones.

Also don't forget some of the smaller rivers that join the Mississipi.
Such as Cumberland - Nashville

I got these of a boardgame map so my locations may not be 100% accurate.

You may already have some of these on the map as we have only seen a few screenshots.

Keep up the good work, looking forward to seeing the finished product.

I've been playtesting this for Trip and I have to say the scenario is very good as far as I have played it.

I will try to post some screenshots of how my war is going, so I'll keep you guys posted.

Pap

As far as the rivers, I didn't initially add many, but I'm fixing that now.

Originally posted by Harrier
Fredricksburg has the Rappahannock.
Richmond the James.
Added.

Delaware - Philadelphia.
Susquehanna - Harrisburg.
Delaware added, the Susquehanna already there.

Tar - near not next to Raleigh.
Cape Fear - next to Wilmington.
San Tec - Columbia.
Savannah - Savannah.
Chatahoochie - Columbus and Atlanta.
Tar added.
Cape Fear already there (not as close to Wilmington as I'd like, but oh well).
San Tec alrady there.
Savannah already there.
Chatahoochie already there.

Alabama - Selma, Montgomery
Tombigbee - Selma (again)
Both added.

Sabine - Sabine
Added.

Plus a few smaller coastal ones.
The map is only so big, I can only fit so many rivers on it without turning the entire map into a flood plain. ;)

Also don't forget some of the smaller rivers that join the Mississipi.
Such as Cumberland - Nashville
Cumberland added.
Tennessee is so important I already have it. ;)

I got these of a boardgame map so my locations may not be 100% accurate.
Close enough for me to find. :p

You may already have some of these on the map as we have only seen a few screenshots.
Most of them, in fact, but that's okay, there were some I didn't have. :)

Keep up the good work, looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Hopefully I'll be finished soon. ;)

Thanks!

I wasn't suggesting millions of rivers, but what concerned me about Northern Virginia is that is obviously the key front of the war, and the two big ones (the ones you've got) were pivotal in keeping it that way. As for Cape Fear, well, jesus, did Union forces ever really see it from land?

Still drooling,

R.III

Here's the current fix list.

IX. FIXES:

v1.01
Removed war-wearniness
Added "Home Guard" units to all undefended cities on both sides
Removed "Growth", "Culture" and "Production" flags from Union governor preference

v1.02
Added "Skirmishers" unit; 5/5/3, BStr 4, BRng 1, RoF 1, Invisible, cost 7
Added many rivers
Re-located some cities in Virginia

v1.03
Reduced "Skirmishers" attack rating by 1 down to 4, and BStr down to 3
Gave Skirmishers and both sides' Cavalry the ability to 'detect invisible'
Increased all naval units' movement points
Added some sounds to Cavalry units, and fixed the 'non-animation' bug involving Confederate Cavalry
Added one Artillery unit and Walls to Grand Isle Louisiana
Modified sounds for Warship units
Gave Artillery units lethal sea bombardment
Gave ships lethal sea bombardment

Railways.

You may already have this info but.

The game map I used for rivers also has railway connections.

Again I do not know how accurate they are but if you need info let me know.

i.e. On my map Nashville and Knoxville though close to each other were not directly connected. They are connected via Chattannooga.

Incidently when the Union captured territorry they had to re-lay rail tracks as they were different gauges. So at least Civ 3 is accurate in that respect.

Sure, that would be useful.
Needless to say, I'm not going to put railroads everywhere they were realistically, since the Union could get a militia unit from Nebraska to the front against the Army of Northern Virginia instantly. :p

Harrier, if the map you're talking about is from the SPI game, it's pretty accurate, actually; I remember checking it against official atlases from the period as part of some bizarre obsession. And it's not overloaded in that respect either.

One way to slow rail down - which I think happens in that boardgame - is to have breaks at rivers, forcing you to either build bridegways or use ferries at those points.

And maybe increase the time it takes for a worker to build a railway?

R.III

I'm preparing for release... any last minute suggestions please respond. ;)

I noticed (in Dip screen) that the resources listed include Oil, and Aluminum. That may be a problem, at least the later.

I have downloaded the scenario and started to play as the Confederates. No problems so far, except me losing two cities by 2800BC.

Map looks OK.

I wondered if the confederates needed a few more start up units, not to many (5 or so). If you leave one garrisonned in each city you only have about 10 spare. (I didn't count them, just from memory, not including cannon or cavalry(scouts)). Not enough to start an initial offensive and dig in. I tried it and took Bowling Green, but only had two left over to garrison. I eventally lost it again.

Obviously if you managed to get hold of actual strengths from books etc. leave well enough alone. I used to have a set of stats. but can not find them.

I'll keep you posted, if I encounter any problems.


I agree with your comment about to many railways. Pity you cann't set a moves per turn counter. One thought I had was to leave a gap every 20 tiles of rail. Although that wont stop the AI or human player from filling them in.

Great Scenario Trip. but shouldn't there be coal deposits around Pittsburgh?

bigbill0126 - vi dont think that the coal deposits around pittsburgh began to be exploited until the late 19th century. not sure about that though. Ill take a look at the marker when i get off the incline tonight.

Excellent scenario, just a few constructive remarks:

* When I start the scenario I only see my cities, can't see what's on the south. Was it meant to be that way

* There are not much units I can use to fight and I start the game with a massive financial los (-359 a turn), might take some time before there is a real battle.

* It takes quite some time to fortify all of the units in all of the cities, can it be set in the editor?

Cheers :cool:,

Eyal

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
* When I start the scenario I only see my cities, can't see what's on the south. Was it meant to be that way
That's not what I'd like, but I don't really have an option... there's no way to set that kind of thing in the editor I'm afraid. I included the objectives map, which is a little help, but I can't do much more than that. :p People can take a look at the map in the editor, but that's about it.

* There are not much units I can use to fight and I start the game with a massive financial los (-359 a turn), might take some time before there is a real battle.
That seems a little extreme... What is your science set at?

* It takes quite some time to fortify all of the units in all of the cities, can it be set in the editor?
I wish I could set that kind of thing in th editor, the same with city production... it does take quite a while to fortify and change the production all the cities. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do about the cities, and if I don't put a garrison in every city, the human player can easily send a bunch of cavalry deep inside the AI's country and raze cities like there's no tomorrow... I think it's a little better to be able to stop that and take 5 more minutes fortifying units. ;)

That seems a little extreme... What is your science set at?


I think it was at %50... Can't recall exactly.

Hey? People are playing it? Where...!! Where!!! My g-friend is away, and I have a whole day to myself, where is it?

First post ;)

Ive a problem, whenever I try to start the scenario it always says the file is corrupt, any ideas on what to do?

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
First post ;)

duh, thanks. I didn't realize he was editing the original post.

You know, some people post new versions farther down the thread, and, uh... :confused:

You know.

Downloading now.

R.II

Tried it. Broke down with an "error reading file" at the Confederate rifleman graphic.

Update:
The problem of the massive money shortage has been fixed. You will now make more cash. :)

Richard, go into the Civ 3\Art\units\Confederate Rifleman\
folder, and copy to me what's in the Confederate Riflemand.INI file inside that directory.

Trip, how bout trading world maps and then declaring a war?

Better yet, if you really want the effort you can trade world maps, fortify all soldiers, declare an all out war and distibute the Scenario as a .SAV file :)

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
Trip, how bout trading world maps and then declaring a war?

Better yet, if you really want the effort you can trade world maps, fortify all soldiers, declare an all out war and distibute the Scenario as a .SAV file :)
I'll probably set up a ".SAV scenario" soon, for those who have little patience. ;)

Not sure if these points have been raised before in other posts. The only hope that the South really had for victory was to dispirit the North early in the war and propel the northern Democrats to power. Or. Get international recognition from France and/or England. It would be interesting to see these factors brought into the game. Perhaps the Northern Democrat Party effect could be represented by a culture bonus for the south for fulfilling certain conditions. Also, it is unlikely in the extreme that the south ever dreamed of advancing as far as New York or Boston. They could live off the land, yes, but they could not hold enemy territory. Their invasions of the north were meant to intimidate and panic the north. Perhaps give the south *huge* culture victory points for occupying any northern territory. However, once the north gets the emancipation declaration in play, then the cultural and diplomatic strategies disappear for the south.

How about a alternate history scenario based on Harry Turtledove's books.

Originally posted by Trip

That's not what I'd like, but I don't really have an option... there's no way to set that kind of thing in the editor I'm afraid. I included the objectives map, which is a little help, but I can't do much more than that. :p People can take a look at the map in the editor, but that's about it.
You might have to do some digging to find it, but someone made a mod that basically removed the black 'shroud' around 'undiscovered' parts of the map, but leaves the grey 'fog of war' so you wouldnt see the units. From what I understand, that black 'shroud' is just a black image the computer superimposes over the map and removes when you 'discover' it so you could probably recreate it if you couldnt find the mod.

There's a lot more things I can do with a ".SAV scenario" (those being one of them), so when I release it soon, then people won't have to worry about 'the black', diplomacy, unit fortifying or city production.

WOOHOO! you got it finished. i was gone for 2 days so i didn't know if it was finished. [dance] :bday: [dance] :bday:

Trip whan I try to extract to civ iii it said i need a password i use an extractor wiz on windows xp

when i extract to desktop or just go to scenario, civil war, then start it up with the editor, then save as a scenario, then go to civ iii open it. it says error reading union rifleman file

please help

In my fist post, I said that everyone needs an up to date version of WinZip. If you don't then it won't work. :p

Should not the south have a like 1 point bonus for the better leadership enjoyed throughout the war. LEE NEVER LOST. (not even really at Gettysburg if you look at the numbers!!!!!) Just a thought.

Maybe you could implement this by giving the south full armies to begin with.

Also have you thought about making the numbers of troops stand up to historical accuracy?? maybe have each unit represent a brigade or divission. The southern cavalry was better than the north throughout the war as long as they where fed. Is there any way to simulate that??

Just some ideas

I use Winrar and it works fine BTW.

IB, WinRar and WinZip both work fine. I don't trust anything else though. :p

Originally posted by Bobby Lee
Should not the south have a like 1 point bonus for the better leadership enjoyed throughout the war. LEE NEVER LOST. (not even really at Gettysburg if you look at the numbers!!!!!) Just a thought.

Maybe you could implement this by giving the south full armies to begin with.

Also have you thought about making the numbers of troops stand up to historical accuracy?? maybe have each unit represent a brigade or divission. The southern cavalry was better than the north throughout the war as long as they where fed. Is there any way to simulate that??

Just some ideas
General, the quality of the southern troops is a lot higher. All southern cities have Barracks, which makes them produce veteran troops. None of the Union cities have them. All troops start out as either conscript (home guard units), or regulars (the regular troops), to simulate how green the troops were at the start of the fight. The South also starts off with all its Cavarly at veteran status, to show their superiority there. As the war progresses, the original regulars will be gone, and the South will have veterans instead, while the Union will have regulars until they build some Barracks. That's how I simulate the quality difference. Later on when both sides may begin drafting troops, the South's draftable unit is far inferior to the North's, to help simulate the decline in quality near the end of the war due to the lack of manpower for the South (I think 1 in every 3 Confederate troops ended up being a casualty).

ok then kool!!

You have no idea how long ive been waiting for an accurate version of the civil war like this. Im sumthin of a civil war junkie.

(i am alittle miffed about the fact you didnt include Texas though as im a native but ill forgive you for it as i can understand the reasoning)thanx on a fantastic job. ill download right away!!

If you decide to do that alternate history based on harry turtledove's How Few Remain ill be the first to download

Thanks to some help from around here the scenario is very thourough and accurate. :)

I have parts of Texas in there, but not the whole thing. I don't need thousands of square miles of empty land to the north. ;)
It was hard enough to make the population of ths South as small as possible... it's only supposed to be 5.5 million (white population), but I have it up to 12.5 million or so in the scenario. The Union has about 5 million 'extra' people. It shouldn't be too much of a problem though.

Hope you enjoy the scenario. :goodjob:

Good Job! I think NO ONE can top this american civil war scenario. :p

Originally posted by realn
Good Job! I think NO ONE can top this american civil war scenario. :p

I haven't tried it.... YET. But I garentee you there is likely at least one person who can top this Scenario.... Trip. :D

i bet i can try, if i had a computer :p

Its not working for me. I can't choose the confederacy and I also can't even load the game becuase it says the gunboat unit is not found or something to that effect.

Wait I feel stupid. I have to download the graphic changes to the graphic folder don't I? If that is what I have to do, will it leave any permanent effects to my game? Like will I have to delete all that stuff when I'm done with it? I've never graphic modded so I don't know this stuff.

What program did you use to extract it?
And no, it won't overwrite any graphics. However, your Civilopedia.txt and Pediaicons.txt in the Civ 3\Text\ folder will be overwritten, but I've only added things.

If you didn't use WinZip or WinRar to extract the file, then that's your problem.

hey i have the same prob with the the CSA

When i try to ckick on the option to play as them it crashes and when i play as the union the davis leaderhead doesnt show, insted it just shows black.

wut am i doing wrong, i can deal with the leaderhead but not being able to play as the CSA is gonna kill me!!

No, my problem was literally that it would crash after I'd selected union, and the last thing on the screen was the error message re: confederate riflement.

I will send the file to Trip shortly.

R.III

Trip.

Forts.

There are three coastal forts you may like to conssider putting on the map, at the start of the game.

Fort Monroe, on the peninsula to the right of Richmond.

Fort Sumter, tile on right of Charleston.

Fort Pickens, two tiles to right of Pensicola.

These forts purpose was to bombard coastal traffic such as ironclads and other craft.

I suggest a fortification improvement with two or three artillery pieces and two defensive units. Its a pity we can not make the cannon immovable.

Railways - let me know if you still need any info on the rail networks.

Originally posted by Harrier
Trip.

Forts.

There are three coastal forts you may like to conssider putting on the map, at the start of the game.


Geez, Harrier, you really DO have that boardgame, eh? I'm jealous.

Wasn't one of those forts still occupied by US troops at the beginning of the war? OTHER than sumter?

R.III

Originally posted by Richard III


Geez, Harrier, you really DO have that boardgame, eh? I'm jealous.

Wasn't one of those forts still occupied by US troops at the beginning of the war? OTHER than sumter?

R.III

Yes. I found the boardgame when trip started this thread. Unfortunately I could not find the magazine it came with, as that has all the statistics in it as well as articles about the period.

I also have another map from the "Times Atlas of World History". It shows about eight forts both coastal and river. It does't indicate their strenght or who occupied them.

Why isnt the South able build Railroads from the start? I havent been given the opp to research steam power or seen any coal.

Otherwise great scenario. its early 3650 bc but I'm playing as the CSA and putting a hurt on the Union around Bowling Green and esp west of the River (those texans havent lost a battle).

The AI seems to love to bombard the cities in FL. Thats all they do w/ the fleet in the gulf. Also they bomb the crap out of Cape Charles for some reason.

I still have my prob with not being able to play as the CSA

also.......The confederate raiders need a lower attack rating, they where primarily used to mess up union logistics. Furthermore the union had some guerillas too!! If you dont believe me check out Mort Kunstler (yes the artist) has a painting of a union guerilla unit in action. i forget what the painting itself is called though.

About manassas........ shouldnt there be railroads going to it, afterall that was the whole reason the union wanted it (it was a key railroad hub.

other than those probs, i think that im in love!! The scenario is wonderful.

I used the default extraction thing that comes with my computer. But I think the biggest problem was that I didn'y extract the graphics to the correct folder. I'll try right now and tell you if I have any luck.

Is it possible to re-package the scenario using a more generic zip rather than a specific "version 8.1 Winzip" ?

i already did unload the graphics to where they need to be and i still cant play as the CSA and cant see jefferson's leaderhead, its just black!!!

I cant stand havin the scen and not bein able to play as the CSA, as i said earlier..........ITS GONNA KILL ME...........LOL

HELP!!HELP!!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Hey. Tried to start Scenario as Conf. and crashed on exception to JGL.DLL file (animation?) Anyone can help? Incidentally, RICHARD III, SPI also published MOVES magazine, but went bankrupt around 1981. I was an investor, life-time subscriber (remember that offer?) and did part of the Beta-testing on the Amercian Civil War and others. The 5 map setup is still sitting in my basement under plexiglass. I helped with the rating systems for initiative and command controls of the leaders (the 5 star system) and experimental OPTIONAL rules (i.e. partisans, etc.)

Trip - congratulations on an (almost) great scenario. Lotta work, HUGE dang map, great fun so far but ...

Initial observations -
*Pity about the black bits of the map - Jefferson Davis wouldn't/couldn't swap maps - must be a way around this - it's not as if Lincoln didn't know where Vicksburg was,is it?

*Don't know if you planned it this way, but when I 1st started playing, there was no coal on the map & workers couldn't build railways - checked the .bic & (if I remember rightly) neither side had actually been given Steam Power tech and/or it was flagged as tech for no era ... something like that. I didn't like this - if both sides had railroads AND ironclads at beginning of CW, then they should both have S.P. Solved this by giving it to both sides as a free tech using Editor/Rules/Civs.

*US Warship is great, love the tall, purple masts - great for destroying littoral improvements, cutting roads & surprising those inland Johnny Rebs who think they're safe away from the coast! MINOR PROBLEM - faulty sound file - Warships make sound while fortifying, attacking & bombarding, but NO sound while sailing.

*Altho both sides in .bic editor are flagged as 'never build Workers or Settlers', in game you CAN build Workers. Approve of no Settlers - damn maps big enough as it is & you don't need more (unless you're playing the South). But with all those unmined,unroaded, unirrigated squares around & between cities, you NEED more than the 23 or so Workers you start the scenario. Especially as each new unit built costs 1 pop. point - you need Workers to irrigate or cities will shrink to nothingness.

*When you're in city screen, & units/improvements pop-up menu is opened, a number of the improvements icons are mis-placed - Hospital has Recycling Centre icon, Police Station is Nuclear Power Plant, Capitol is BIG fortress - a few others but can't remember them all - intentional or one of those 'bug' things?

*MAJOR PROBLEM : I played the North quite happily till 3550BC when I was to discover Conscription next turn. At start of next turn, after a few city announcements, game crashed (twice) with error message "ERROR READING FILE - MISSING ENTRY IN 'text\Pedialcons.txt' :_LARGE". Anyone else have this problem or something similar? Using v.1.04, pediatext changed from 'Read-only, etc.

Any suggestions?

Keep up the great work, Trip, & don't worry about the whingers & whiners - if the game worked 100% perfectly & cost $1, some people would still complain!

Cheers:goodjob: :goodjob:

I got the map working now. You can use a generic zip opener as well. I used the zip wizard on my computer. Everything works fine now. I'm playing as the union and I always wondered what the US would be like without the South.:rolleyes: I'm going for total annihilation of it!:goodjob:

Originally posted by wanderer6552


*MAJOR PROBLEM : I played the North quite happily till 3550BC when I was to discover Conscription next turn. At start of next turn, after a few city announcements, game crashed (twice) with error message "ERROR READING FILE - MISSING ENTRY IN 'text\Pedialcons.txt' :_LARGE". Anyone else have this problem or something similar? Using v.1.04, pediatext changed from 'Read-only, etc.


:

i had the exact same prob!!

i still cant play as the CSA either:( :( :( :eek:

Umm ok I got a problem too. The conscription Pediaicon seems to be missing. It crashes when I try to discover conscription and brings up an error message.. Anyone else have this problem?

yea, i do

Thanks for the great scenario...
One problem though... everytime I move the map near to its end the game crashes!! Any ideas on why?

The game I'm playing as the South also crashes when Conscription is going to be learned.

Can you include 1 or 2 more artillery wherever the North starts with 7 or 8 ships? lol they obliterated all my coastal city tile improvements in no time.

seems pretty good so far.

OH SNAP CIVIL WAR! im firing my CIV3 after downloading this sweet thing!




oh yeah check out my Future mod mod:king: :goodjob:

nojobnoodles, the scen is made to be accurate as to troops and difficulties. if he gave them sum more ships then the scen would become completely pointless as to accuracy. The CSA didnt have a very good navy and that thing bout coastal improvements your gonna have to live with cause thats war!

"Could not open scenario file! The file may be corrupt!"

I have 1.29 and everything...maybe its my WinZip like you said?

Hi folks,

More on the MAJOR problem mentioned in my last post here ...

I.E. *MAJOR PROBLEM : I played the North quite happily till 3550BC when I was to discover Conscription next turn. At start of next turn, after a few city announcements, game crashed (twice) with error message "ERROR READING FILE - MISSING ENTRY IN 'text\Pedialcons.txt' :_LARGE". Anyone else have this problem or something similar? Using v.1.04, pediatext changed from 'Read-only, etc.

I have tried trawling thru 'Pedialcons.txt' to see where the error lies. It appears that the error arises when the tech discovery is made, the game attempts to bring up the 'You have discovered X, would you like to research Y or Z?'. Now, in that box is an underlined link to the tech just discovered, which links to (I THINK) to the relevant lines in the 'Pedialcons.txt'. There is also an underlined link to the next (recommended) tech to be researched, along with the drop-down menu with any other techs which can be researched. Hope you're with me so far ...

Now, & this just supposition on my part in the absence of any AUTHORITATIVE advice, these links are supposed to connect to the relevant lines in the 'Pedialcons.txt'. If these lines are wrong or misplaced, the link will fail, the game will throw a spaz attack, throw up the error message, & then commit suicide.

About 7/8's of the way down the 'Pedialcos.txt' you will find a section headed

# Small Tech Icons

followed by a list of advances, including

#TECH_Nationalism
Art\tech chooser\Icons\51-Nationalism-small.pcx

This tells the game to go Art folder\tech chooser folder\Icons folder to find the SMALL red,waving flag icon which represents the 'Nationalism' tech advance in the game.
( The '51' in '51-Nationalism-small.pcx' represents the position of 'Nationalism' in the tech list, while .pcx is the image file type.)

Similarly, at the end of the 'small icons' section is the 'large icons' section - same, same ...

# Large Tech Icons
......
#TECH_Nationalism_LARGE
Art\tech chooser\Icons\51-Nationalism-large.pcx

So far so good ....

Now, 'Conscription' replaces 'Nationalism' in Trip's scenario, so there should be an entry such as ...

'#TECH_Conscription_LARGE
Art\tech chooser\Icons\51-Conscription-large.pcx'

(Likewise in 'small icons' section)

HOWEVER - & it's somewhere here that I believe the error occurs - the small & large icon lists are in ALPHABETICAL order ... therefore 'Conscription' should appear in position #14, between 'Computers' (#13) & 'Construction' (#14) - in other words, all techs from #14 on would have to re-numbered #15 - #82 (!) IF the game reads the list alphabetically, rather than numerically, that is. IF it's read numerically, then ... apparently no problem, but I'm not sure.

I've tried placing C in (1) alphabetical order, (2) numerical order with & w/out
"#TECH_Nationalism_LARGE
Art\tech chooser\Icons\51-Nationalism-large.pcx"
in the list. Nothing's worked so far, but I've got a couple of other ideas to try before I give up.

Hopefully, the approach laid out above may have lit a lightglobe with someone here, or perhaps someone from Firaxis can clarify some of the technical aspects mentioned above.

Cheers

Bingo big guy! The introduction of the "Scenario Editor" appears to have stumbled onto and not allowed for a problem found prior to this in adding Techs. It's looking for the next Tech name on the tree {thus the blank before _Large} and there apparently is none, or it has only 1 and a branch that looks for more. Check out other threads on the Creation and you might get an idea. The Civilpedia, Pedialcon and techs were "hardwired" before, but are not supposed to be now. Maybe there is some special directions needed for the new editor to get around this. Otherwise, you need to keep techs in exact order. To add a tech you must use a tech slot by renaming another. it's been an ongoing problem.
If you try to click on the "Uber Tech" link at scenario start-up you will get the same result . . .a crash because of failure in the process. At least we get a message about where to look for the problem now without any special debugging tools.

Originally posted by Bobby Lee
nojobnoodles, the scen is made to be accurate as to troops and difficulties. if he gave them sum more ships then the scen would become completely pointless as to accuracy. The CSA didnt have a very good navy and that thing bout coastal improvements your gonna have to live with cause thats war!
Correct. I probably gave the CSA too many ships to begin with, but I had to make it somewhat possible to win, otherwise I might as well not make a CSA navy at all.

Good work on your investigation wanderer6552. I started looking into it, but I got side-tracked with some other work. That appears as though it could be a big problem... not being able to use techs might take a little out of the scenario. ;) I'll try as many things as I can, and hopefully I can eliminate all of the 'crashing' bugs, regarding Civilopedia.txt and Pediaicons.txt before I show Firaxis my scenario.

while ur at it could u try to figure out y i cant play as the CSA.........i have no idea as y that is..........when i click on the option to be the CSA the game crashes..........furthermore i cant see the Jeff Davis Leader head as the union.

Is this sumthing I did or wut

while ur at it could u try to figure out y i cant play as the CSA.........i have no idea as y that is..........when i click on the option to be the CSA the game crashes..........furthermore i cant see the Jeff Davis Leader head as the union.

Is this sumthing I did or wut

P.S. I didn't understand anything u said wanderer but it sounded like it was right!

Sorry if i wasnt very clear Bobby Lee & Trip.

I agree the CSA shouldn't have much of a navy if any at all, maybe some ironclads. Anyways, what I had got blown away in a turn or two anyways so no big deal.

What I meant was artillery (meaning cannon) to defend the key coastal towns. I guarantee the CSA had artillery defense in the majority of their key cities, either by a fort or the surrounding terrain itself. Just about every battle that occured in the entire war had artillery support...while it's true the Union had far more numbers with superior range and variety, the South had their share of cannon and forts. The forts provided coastal protection for the blockade runners, and thus were the first targets.

So for example near Fredricksburg (where the Union has a huge starting navy)...there ought to be some sort of a fort or more artillery support to defend against that naval bombardment. They tear that city up in the first few turns (and even some of Richmond's tiles too!) leaving the solitary defender with 1 hp, when in reality Fredericksburg wasn't captured by a land assault until 1863 (the pc captured Fredericksburg with 2 skirmisher units in my game). Both Fort Sumter (Charleston Harbor) and first Manassas were confederate victories because of the artillery involved. The vast majority of the early naval battles were fought between 1 or 2 Unions gunships and CSA artillery. The Confederacy also had artillery lined up all along the Potomac. They had forts up and down the Mississippi and surrounding New Orleans (which was their largest city), although these proved very uneffective. There is a basis to my request is all I'm trying to say.

And in defense of the realism factor...I don't think the North would have been able to blow up (via bombardment at least) the entire atlantic/gulf coastline in the first few months of the war (by circa 3100BC my entire coastline was gone), so a couple pieces of artillery shouldn't unbalance the whole war. The northern ships will still get to bombard the hell out of the coast just at a somewhat slower pace if they are under return fire. In reality the South had artillery laden forts all along the entire coastline, which are what the northern navy focused on the first few months. With the forts captured or abandoned, the North was able to enforce their blockade. The Northern navy ventured down the Mississippi splitting the Confederacy in two. New Orleans sealed that goal, which allowed the Navy to conentrate their efforts on the blockade. It wasn't until after the fall of New Orleans that attacks were made on LA, FL, GA, etc. Most of the forts were captured during 1862-1863 thru gunships and amphibious assaults.

Enough ranting...hope that clears up any confusion we had (although it may raise more?).

ok.........so thats what you meant.

We have dicussed that idea (i think) and if i remember right it was that those weapons where immovable and we dont know how to do that (although *sudden thought* what if we just gave it a movement rate of 0)........i could be wrong bout that but ill leave that to Trip to clear up

That would work but it would be very costly if the city was captured.... if no movement was given to these units they would be captured or destroyed when the host city was captured and to make an impact there would need to be many of these "costal batteries" So you would lose these batteries... with no chance of moving them.. Just a thought??

Maybe give them 1 movement point to rep. a large battery that is transportable??

I suggest a fortification improvement with two or three artillery pieces and two defensive units. Its a pity we can not make the cannon immovable.


You can. All you need to do is make a new cannon unit and give it the 'Immobile' property.

i thought that only worked with air units

no it works with any unit

It does work.. I have been using that for a number of days now with Naval Batteries and Coastal Fortifications-units.. As long as you give them a movement that is the number of times they get to shoot.. You give them a defence, offense, bombard and movement with immobile they can defend, and bombard but still cant move but sure can kill things..

Mark

ok then, thats kool. good thinkin!!

OK guys. Corrected our problem with the crashes at Conscription :-) Go into the bic file in the editor and go to Civilization Advances. Where the new Techs are in the box Civilpedia Entry Type "TECH_Nationalism" to direct the process to an icon to use. You need to do that for each new tech. I used Metallurgy for Adv. Rif., Replac. Parts for Reliable Rep. Rif, Military Trad. for Total War, Sanitation for Med. Text, and SteamPower for itself. What it will need after these are all produced, I'm not sure. Set ERA for Steam, Uber Tech and Conscription as NONE. Now you can draft a citizen in each town (or however the settings for that are). This should get us playing past 3100BC to keep playtesting for a while.

New day . . .new issue. Can play Union. 1st 3 turns. Encountered Jeff Davis, got map of territory, told them to get out of my territory or declare war. They declared war then the game crashed to desktop.

Has everyone quit here? If there is another thread working on this, please let me know.

tcwonder3

I honestly dont know.. I think trip is working on other things.. Myself I have been house/land hunting.. At this point this scenario is unplayable and needs a lot of work..

You are limited, as you have mentioned, to not searching techs and other mod ending problems.. Over the weekend I'll make an attempt to look into some just keep posting. Try pming trip he is online A LOT and has too many projects going on. I was considering asking him if I could take it over? Maybe share it--- I dont want to offend him however he does a lot for the community. Well let me know put Trip hasnt been online since the first of August.

Mark

Thanx for the tip, TC ... will try it after I've whipped them thar Johnny Rebs' arses.

How? ... OK, I cheated just a little ... made sure North & South both had several iron & coal linked to trade network (so RR can be built), gave each of them Steam Power, Advanced Rifling & Reliable Rep. Rifle as free techs, forgot about other techs by setting minimum tech turns to 100 (to hopefully stop AI from discovering Conscription & thus maybe causing game crash) so that both sides could just go at it ... oh, also made it possible to build workers (to help build RR, etc.) to whom I gave moves of 2 while keeping Trip's 2 road movement mod.

Result? ... so far so good - no crashes, lotsa action & my eyes no longer go funny trying to trawl thru all those lines of code looking for discrepancies.

See ya later - I hear the long roll calling.

BTW - haven't been able to raise 'CivFanatics' at all for the last 3/4 days altho no trouble reaching 'Apolyton' ... anyone else have trouble getting thru?

Cheers

I think I have everything fixed. In my absence I've gotten as much work done on it as I could. I was working on the '.SAV scenarios', and I had the Union one nearly done a couple days ago when I loaded it into the CMT to do some stuff. Lucky me, the thing corrupted the file (which I had no backup of), which sickened me so much I haven't worked on it in the past couple days. ;) I'll finish those .SAV ones for each side today for the 1.05 release (which I REALLY hope to get done today).

Don't worry, I'm still alive, just bound and gagged in the back of someone's closet. ;)

I have been using the last version and been hard at it guys. I have eliminated ALL crashes. I have successfully moved the Tech tree for the Science advisor so that it shows a connected arrow-flow and added the use of a Corps, Army and Spy unit. I created and put in the unit_32.pcx icons for the HMSfrigate being used from IronFrigate and Bandit (Confederate Raider) and added the Small Wonders of Military Academy (to increase leader appearance like the Heroic Epic) and make the Corps unit possible, the War Department(for Armies), and the Pinkerton Secret Service (Spies - i.e."invisible explorer", very expensive!) and spy placement ability from wonder. I have been looking into graphics replacement for the wonder. Many of these things have required Civilpedia and Civilicon additions to graphics-flow. This appears to be adequate only to get a playable game through historical 1862, though and look forward to Trip's newer version. I have found that you need 2 versions to play Union AND Reb, because the scenario settings in the new editor limit the choosable human player options to 1.
This is more fun than working on the WW2 scenario that I was involved in (I have faded out of it!) I live for Civil War history - being a history teacher and gamer and descendant of veterans from both sides (KY)

Oh - yeah CMT has not been working right since Gramphos tried to adjust for 1.29. It won't save compressed files if the Scenario editor has the BIC compression option selected. I haven't been able to work around this or find the problem while trying to adjust the scenario as I've been play-testing. Instead I've had to repeatedly restart from day 1 with adjustments to try things.

Originally posted by tcwonder3
Oh - yeah CMT has not been working right since Gramphos tried to adjust for 1.29. It won't save compressed files if the Scenario editor has the BIC compression option selected. I haven't been able to work around this or find the problem while trying to adjust the scenario as I've been play-testing. Instead I've had to repeatedly restart from day 1 with adjustments to try things.

I'd love a real ACW scenario. The one in Civ 2 was lame especially in regards to blockade running and Federal amphibious invasions.

But the question remains - what if Grant finally takes Petersburg... and it promptly flips back to the Rebs? Army of Potomac disappears! :crazyeye: Maybe the same thing can happen to Sherman in Atlanta.

How do you plan to deal with such craziness?? Is there some tool that can kill crazy Culture Flipping at least in "historical" scenarios?

What about Diplomacy? Are the North and South suddenly going to make peace with the North leaving the South in existence?? This could never be.

hey again

tcwonder - thx for the fix, im at about 1000bc right now kicking some union butt. have researched most everything except that medical textbooks. just took manhattan and am working on baltimore and new york.

just some problematic AI issues so far, not sure if there is anything that can be done about it either.

apart from their initial strong navy, the union doesn't seem to build any more ships. in fact, they don't seem to build anything other than mass skirmishers (hundreds) and a much smaller amount of infantry (have seen 0 cannons and calvary at this point). will need to make some changes to unit values i think so that the pc will use all of them.

zouave - i have just been destroying all the union cities (except a few near richmond - washington, princeton, hazard). the ones i captured, i reduced to size 1 beforehand, and still throughout the whole game that 1 citizen has been resisting, even with temples and colosseums and 2+ units in the city. but they never revolted or reverted back. the pc also seems to just destroy cities to get workers.

the north has requested peace from me on 2 occasions so far, but they never have any income to spare so i deny them.

the pc seems to place way too high of an importance on worker units. it will send a dozen units deep into my territory to get 1 or 2 workers. most of the time i can finish him off before he gets to them, but if he just attacked a border city or two instead, he could have easily destroyed them. this happened on many occassions. probably 1/2 of all the fighting that has occured has been over my worker units. once im finished, i will try giving worker units a 1 or 2 defense so hopefully they cant be captured and the pc will lose them as objectives.

the pc doesn't seem to effectively utilize pillage (apart from naval bombardments). even when they attacked my land the only tiles they would pillage would be tiles near their borders. instead of say the railroad/irrigation/mined tiles around the cities, they only seemed to target tiles with a road improvement.

the pc would frequently let me pillage hundreds of tiles (even ones right next to cities) before sending in units to stop them. i think i have destroyed 3/4 all their tile improvements with only a dozen or so units (the pc only killed 3-4 of those). id suggest some fortresses be placed near the cities, throughout the map, so that maybe he will place a unit in there if you enter his territory.

the map is a little messed up (why are the east and west connected?) in that you can go from texas to maine.

on the good side, the pc attacked most of the cities up and down the confed/union border, although once i took washington (their captial moved to Boston) their offensive probings all but stopped apart from going after my worker units!

anyways...things are getting a little slow in this current game, but will keep going. still needs some balancing in my opinion, but overall you did a pretty good job trip. at least its something new to experiment with.

Trip gets an A++++++++++++++++ for this great scenario! I haven't downloaded it yet, but I will, soon....

BTW, post more screenshots, and please post one of Michigan (where I live).

nojobnoodlez(what a monicker!) can I call you "no"? The AI has been a problem with Civ 3 since release. One thing we had hoped to get was some way to adapt it with the 1.29f patch. But, no can do says Firaxis. That was the primary reason, I think, for Trip setting up the Union as the human (aggression controlled) player. We'll experiment with setting them against each other as much as possible with dislike levels, etc.. Maybe I'll zip up my adaptions and send it to you if you contact me privately for an address. I dont' want to post something in someone else's thread.

I just read sela1s1son's post and felt so bummed! I LIVE in Lancaster, PA and was on a trip this whole weekend. DOH!

The best mod I have played, wow its really fun! thanks. How did you get the diplomacy to where they are always at war?

warlordmatt - here's 10 screencaps (sorry no Michigan yet). each one is around 300k so be patient. note that there are some changes to Trip's map (extended railroad to Manssas since it was a railroad junction, added some forts in the South, etc.) and the DYP mod is installed so it may not look exactly like your version will.

http://www.digitalcollective.com/civ3.asp

tcwonder - i have been making alot of changes as well. and once this first run through is completed, will be making alot more in an effort to get the AI to run a little more efficiently.

some of the changes so far:
Union starts with a fort garrisoned with a cannon and infantry at Charleston (allow the CSA to declare war on first turn and representing Fort Sumter)
CSA has 2 extra infantry and 2 artillery at Charleston

2 forts south of New Orleans (represents Fort Jackson and Fort St. Phillip) on both sides of the river. Each has 1 artillery in it. Removed the artillery in that southernmost city.

1 fort near Dyersburg along the Mississippi

Added 1 ironclad on the Mississippi (the CSA did have ironclads around New Orleans), removed the 1 Confederate Warship that was there.

Added courthouse to Appamattox.

Railroad from Richmond to Manasas.

Skirmishers - Turned off Invisibility, gave them Radar and All Terrain as Roads (mistake)


plan to do:
Going to eliminate population cost on all ships and artillery units to try and get the pc to build them. will try experimenting with shield cost and movement on cavalry, infantry, and skirmishers.

Add more ships to Union fleet. Add some artillery to Union army.

Considering adding some barbarians in the west to represent indigenous tribes which both sides conducted battle with during this time period (albeit in Oklahoma and the Dakotas). Worried the PC will make them an objective though. But may be some much needed gold.

Add worker defense so the pc will not target them

Add some forts (maybe with artillery if i cant get the pc to build them) to the north to curb southern pillaging and to the south along the Missippi and coastline.

Fix the map so that east/west is not connected.

Make Raiders available on both sides, change them to mounted units with 1 higher movement than Calvary. 6.2.5. These will be the Invisible units. Worried the pc will mass produce these instead, thus the low defense.

Maybe add some new units: Zouaves (7.9.2), Sharpshooters (3(9).3.2), Picketline (3(3).5.3) w/ Blitz, Garrison w/ Artillery (1(9).6.0) - Immobile and to be placed in forts and cities)

Add Blitz to Skirmishers. Turn off All Terrian As Roads.

Figure out a way to get more leaders...I haven't had any yet.

Reduce corruption or add some sort of small wonder (ala Forbidden Palace)

Maybe adding cotton as a strategic resource to produce Infantry units.

Will probably make ironclads available from the start.

Speaking of ironclads...check this tidbit from today's news:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=542&ncid=514&e=9&u=/ap/uss_monitor

Lot of similarities with what I've adjusted, too. I didn't think about the Ft. Sumter factor, good one. I haven't gone into adding forts yet. Plan to put in Ft. Pickens near Pensacola, Ft. Tortugas is on the isle by S. Florida. I might try rivering the Tennessee to the sand-bars west of Chattanooga, too. Do you have graphics for your new units? Don't agree with the Zouaves, though, there were only enough of them in the war to merit 1 unit on this game. You need to relocate the Fredricksburg and Manassas Junction sites to better display the signifigance of Fredricksburg in the march to Richmond. Eliminating the population cost for material-units is good. I've done that already and it works well. The corps and army units are working out well for me, too. I haven't been able to generate a single leader unit through battle, though. Even with the wonder I created (Military Academy) that is supposed to increase the percentages. Thinking about putting in a creatable leader that somehow requires combat success to simulate historical results. Not there yet.
Gee, Matt you aren't from Kalamazoo by chance?

TC & No

Ever thought of having the skirms defend lower & making them a lil cheaper?

Also if you dont wanna post your files in this thread, is there another place where can I see your modifications b/c they sound like they make the scen a lil more interesting?

Originally posted by nojobnoodlez
Figure out a way to get more leaders...I haven't had any yet.


nojobnoodlez - I don't think you will get any leaders because Trip has eliminated the leader unit. If you create a unit called leader and check the leader flag (just look in an unmodified scenario file at the leader unit and copy it exactly in the civil war scenario bic) and you should get leaders again. I made this change but have yet to have a chance to test it.

I also have been modifying the scenario and in an effort to reduce coastal bombardment I added an immobile "coastal battery" unit. Worked like a charm, actually too good :crazyeye: , I need to go back and downgrade it. I wanted to make it so the Union "owns" the ocean and can blockade without being able to destroy the coastal improvements and bombard coastal cities at will. These units should be very expensive to discourage the AI from building more.

I also added a confederacy government (couldn't resist) which requires the confederacy tech. I gave confederacy tech to the rebs as a starting tech and made it super expensive so the Union would not research it. I also made it a shunned government for the Union, although I don't think that really makes any difference to the AI. Basically it is democracy with a some city supported units to reflect the South's "will to fight."

It would also be nice to figure out a way to make the AI more aggressive. Maybe increase the game level and figure out a different way to prevent horrible money problems? I can't think of any other way to make the AI "better" regardless of what side they play. Thoughts?

I would be very interested in seeing other people modifications to the scenario if we can get Trip's permission to post them.

Originally posted by tcwonder3
Corrected our problem with the crashes at Conscription :-) Go into the bic file in the editor and go to Civilization Advances. Where the new Techs are in the box Civilpedia Entry Type "TECH_Nationalism" to direct the process to an icon to use.
tcwonder3 - BTW, thanks for the civilopedia fix. It worked like a charm, no problem researching anything.

Vivo

Trip

Where is version 1.05? I tried your link at the beginning of the Forum but still got version 1.04.

Great scenario, hopefully we can get all the bugs worked out.

conmcb25

If anyone adds any small wonders like I did, (i.e. Military Academy, Pinkerton Agency, etc.) you are going to get crashes when you finally build it. The good thing is that the new patch tells you where the WonderSplash occurs (number at the end of the error message). As you playtest, keep autosave on. When the crash occurs, go to the Civilicon file and to the Wonder Splash section. The resident ones start at #30, but the errors will be in the numbers below. I have them at 20 to 25. Just copy the one for an appropriate existing one (i.e. Pentagon for War Department)and place it as the error message missing #. Then reload the last Autosave game and hit Shift+Enter to test. This is a playtesting tool and method put in by Firaxis that works well for scenario creation. If you add more than 30 (surprising if you do) you will have to start replacing the ones from #30 on up.
Vivo- I added the leader units back in because in the first run throughs I was getting Elite units with the asterisk indicating had generated a leader. Since adding the unit back, I have not gotten a single generation of a leader. I think I'm missing something. You don't necessarily need to add extra coastal artillary, just make the "Coastal Fortress" improvement unbuildable, strong, and place in the scenario bic. They attack all units adjacet to them on a random scale. Somewhere we can adjust these. Besides, blockade only works in the game if the ships are directly adjacent to the city and cover ALL the sea tiles. There were NO coastal fortresses built by either side during the course of the war due to costs and time, so building one should not be possible anyway.

Oh, incidentally, it's mainly an historical ego thing, but the rail center in southern Ohio that is listed as Lancaster (probably put in because Sherman was from there) was actually Chillicothe, where there was a main training facility and the Baltimore & Ohio railroad, that was connected to Cincinnati, intersected with the Detroit, Toledo & Ironton railroad (Ironton, OH not Wheeling, W.Va.) and 2 others and an east/west crossing (avoided by Morgan in his raid due to lots of militia!) of the Scioto River. Take my word for it. I did a research paper on the Raid my senior year at school for my History Teaching Degree.

well just finished the first game as CSA. of the objective cities i destroyed lexington, captured washington, baltimore, new york, boston and got philadelphia and cincinnati thru a peace treaty.

near the last few years, the union finally stopped tossin endless skirmishers against my carbines and rifleman, and built some good size offensives using just rifleman. can post a few more screens if anyone is interested.

before i even worry about the new units, i'm going to have to do an uninstall and reinstall of civ3 before i start to work on some changes because of all the mods i have installed at the moment.

does anyone know of any good historical map websites? would really like to find railroad and road maps of the time period.

EDIT
found some good ones for the CSA.
http://www.csa-railroads.com/Confederate%20Railroad%20Maps.htm

The best small maps for this are from the America's Civil War magazine, Stivers Publishing, Waterford, VA. The best game map (hexagon-based) is "War Between the States", 1977, Simulations Publications Inc., NY,NY (publishers of SPI and Strategy & Tactics games and magazine in the1970's-early '80's ---5 maps(overlapped) 28"x36" (approx) each -- encompasses Texas to Maine --- covers a 4'x 7' area. I have it, but good luck finding a copy anywhere on the net as it has been out for print for 20+ years. Might try contacting Jim Dunnigan or Redmond Simonsen for info. Let me know if you do find it anywhere, please. My version is too well-worn to use much anymore.:rolleyes:

In both players, you need to set the AI production to defensive units as the priority. In the basic release, it is set to both def and off and the AI seems to consider skirmishers off priorities because of the bombardment factor.

OK Tex, how'd you get the Confederates to play? I changed active players and the scenario crashes. All I've playtested has been from the Union side and I need to work the other side for balance.

hmm I didnt have to do anything special to get the CSA to work. Didn't try the Union until I finished the clean install, but now both sides seem to work ok. Did you mess around with the Player Properties or anything? What kind of error message is it giving you?

If you can't figure out what is going on, try to upload your bic.

While I was adding the railroads to the CSA, found tons of geographical/city errors. Due to the grid based editor, I'm not really going to worry about them because it seems like it'd be a big pain in the ass to fix them all. (may change the north virginia area, most of that isnt very accurate but will take some time so still hesitant)

Found some railroad info for Illinois. And if Illinois was this developed, I'm sure most of the Northeast was even moreso. So if I can't find any more railroad info, I'll just connect all the Union cities via railroad.

http://www.outfitters.com/illinois/history/ilrails.html




So far in my new version, I added most of the coastal or interior forts where a battle took place (excluding Virginia on up). So there are now approximately 25-30 garrisons throughout the South (2-3 in Union control)

Added the railroads to the South.

Changed a few city areas (added a couple of cities, moved some around) to the South, especially along Lousiana's Gulf Coast region (added Lafayette, replaced Lake Charles with Orange, TX which was a railroad town, renamed Morgan City to Brashear).
Added extensive irrigation along the Mississippi (the strip between New Orleans and Natchez was supposed to be the richest platations in the county).

Added alot more ships to the Union navy. Gave them about 4 ironclads, ALOT more gunboats, a few more Warships, couple more transports. There is a new fleet of 8 ships at New York and a 6 ship fleet near Atlantic City. The fleet at New Orleans was expanded to 14 ships, there are a couple gunbots at Houston, and three more near Tampa Bay.

Changed the tiles around St. Louis, so that ships can get out of the city.

Added some islands off North Carolina's coastline (Roanoke, etc.) and around Charleston (Jame Island, Morris Island served as launching points for about ten failed attacks on the forts surrounding Charleston - see the movie Glory). The Roanoke Island chain has 2 CSA forts; there are also 2 Union infantry stationed on both James Island and Morris Island). All islands should be out of bombard reach from the mainland (2 tiles away), which isn't geographically accurate but will allow the Union to use them as staging points if they choose to do so.

Added a blockade runner unit which can't do anything much but distract some of those Union ships (hehe). They have like a 3 bombard and 4 defense, but have more moves than any other ship. Gave the CSA about a dozen or so of these, but just opened the bic and they are all gone hmmm. There is an added gunboat and barge near Pensacola, Florida to represent an amphibious assault on a Union fort that was held in 1861. There is 1 ironclad at New Orleans.

Added the General/Leader unit. May start the game with Lee & Meade but haven't decided how to orchestrate this yet.

Added an immobile Garrison unit and placed one in every fort (2 in some cases where a pair of forts were closely located to each other). Some have veteran status, some have regular status.

Gave Democracy & Republic a 1.2.2 (town.city.metropolis) free unit support so that money shouldn't be an issue at the start of the game.

Increased Union starting gold to 2000 at the beginning. CSA is still at 500. CSA right now seems to generate alot more gold (since they don't have a navy) than the Union which is why this was done.

Haven't begun playtesting yet past the first turn. Still have lots of changes in mind but will take forever to implement them heh.


How did you set up your army stuff tc? like a corp usually had 35k soldiers what kind of attack would you give that against like 1 or 2 defenders (which i figure would be 1-2k soldiers)? what were your attack/defense values

I set up the corps to be quicker (2mp) smaller army units but only hold 2 units. The Corps in the Civil War were primarily organizational improvements until about 1864 anyway. Their fighting ability was so weak I upped it to a 3 unit one. The Army was originally double the capacity, with an attached artillary capability (bombardment). I've been playing with the idea of a seperate Corps, because I can't get the present ones to combine into massive armies. Still leaving them seperate may simulate the fragmentation of order-following, i.e.1 star generals who didn't follow (ignored or never got) orders from superiors during campaigns. I haven't played enough with them to get a feel. I would like them to be able to bombard and blitz. I think that only an Army should have the blitz ability anyway. It took an 9-1 attack to defender ratio to eliminate a unit during the Civil War (from our research in the 1970's-check out Jim Dunnigan's book or "Numbers, Predictions & War" by Col. T.N. Dupuy). That's part of the reason that the Rebel brigades were able to defend against much large forces. The unexpected result that made the war last longer than the 90 days most volunteers expected! Anyway, I tried to make Corps a buildable unit following Conscription (which also raised the chances of a leader showing up). I wanted the first Armies to be the result of successful leaders like Jackson, McDowell, McClellan, Lee, etc. before Tech Total War brought up mobilization, the War Department(lets armies be bigger still) and Military Academy (buildable armies).

My problem has been that to test my trials I had to put the Leader unit back that Tripp took out. Since doing that I still have not generated any leaders from battles. I've been tinkering with the idea of a General Unit (tried it once, but it didn't work out well because the AI started building 100% Generals!!!) I would like the unit to be able to create a massive-capacity army like the default one, with the bombardment ability built in and "Radar" to simulate attached cavalry.

A quick after-thought. Perhaps less emphasis on unit strengths and more on adjusting terrain factors might be the answer?

Another thing (me and my multiple posts;-). I played around with adding rail. Bad idea. Never was a military unit able to use an opposing rail line until after it captured and rebuilt it. When I tried it the Cavalry and skirmishers were able to run ragged in the "behind-lines" areas. Road use in it's place, except some internal east-west rails and Boston to DC, seem the only practical use way to simulate railroad travel in time. Each turn right now is equal to 10 days. The rail transport capacity wasn't great enough to move more than a couple of small units from Cinc. to DC in less than 3 weeks. Instantaneous movement is a big wrench in the overall game system for this time period.

Originally posted by conmcb25
Trip

Where is version 1.05? I tried your link at the beginning of the Forum but still got version 1.04.

Great scenario, hopefully we can get all the bugs worked out.

conmcb25
Sorry everyone, I'd updated the page before I got the file up, and I didn't have the internet there for a while to update the actual file. Hopefully most of the bugs are finally out of it, but, of course, I'm sure you guys'll find more anyways. ;)

It's been a while, I forget if I fixed the tech problem... I might have, but I don't have time to test it in the near future, so I think I'll just release it and you guys can check it out.


A pity I can't find out how many people have downloaded the file. :( I wanted to see how many people were interested in my stuff. I've had some major delays in work lately, and after some work with the Pacific Scenario a week or so ago I haven't been able to do much. Also, since I was gone I wasn't able to send the scenario to Firaxis, so don't plan on seeing it in Play the World. :(

Trip

Thanks for posting version 1.05. I believe there is a lot of interest in the Civil War. If you want why dont you give us permission to edit and post what you started. A bunch of us working on this scenario could produce something great.

Thanks

CONMCB25:lol:

Hey tc, how do you get the Leaders to turn into Armies? I created a Leader and Army unit and gave the Leader the Build Army property, but he just disappears when I tell him to build it.

In the meantime, I've been experimenting with various army sizes. Going to try to approximate the units...for example, 1 infantry represents 1000 men (Regiment size). A Brigade unit was created that can hold 4 infantry/cavalry. A Division unit was created that could hold 12 infantry/calvary. Made a Corp unit (35 units...d'oh) but haven't added any yet. So to test these, I added some to both sides (2 divisions and 4 brigades to both sides). The first editor problem is you can give them to the PC but can't force the PC to utilize them. To my surprise, however, he did build them in about half the locations. Then the 2nd problem is that he keeps them bottled up in the city rather than attacking with them. Only time he seems to field them is when an injured unit is nearby. I just can't seem to get the Union to be as offensive as I want it to be. Well on the good side, it is much harder to take Washington & Kentucky now from the CSA side. Division on Division battles take forever to play out...literally minutes. So will probably end up turning all animations off to speed things up.

The army stuff is playing out pretty well from a defensive point of view. If you send a Brigade against a fortified Veteran Rifleman, they may not win. Typically they lose about 12-24 points. But send a Division and they can usually take out most everything, even a Brigade (losing ALOT of their unit points in the process). I think that portion of it is working out very well. Now if the damn AI would just attack with them!

This time around he seems to be mass producing Calvary, even though I didn't really mess with the other units yet, just reduced the Skirmishers movement (remember in my previous game I gave them all terrain as roads). So he seems to mass produce whatever unit can move the farthest regardless of their attack abilities.

The blockade runners are working out well. They lost in all battles unless they attacked a ship with 1 or 2 hitpoints. Sometimes they would lose without inflicting any damage, other times they would inflict 1-4 point of damage. So not a real threat to the Union navy, but can be a real nuisance to straggling ships.

The garrisons I added aren't working very well. Their bombard is high (9) but they have not successfully attacked EVER, which I don't understand. Do they have to have an Attack value as well to work?

Anyways, I think I'll be keeping the railroads in, and lowering the movement of all units by half (so the movement rates of the basic units would be the same as the original game - special units like the skirmisher and raiders would still have enhanced values. This makes it difficult to conduct a large scale offensive unless you take control of the towns rather than raze them. SO to make that act possible, I have reimplemented Culture values into the game. You can now take over a city and with enough units and enhancements, convert the resistors and have a culturally expanding city. So far this has resulted in very good results. I took 2 cities in Kentucky so far (with the brigade units), and the Union has been trying to retake them every turn with his Calvary. While he isn't successful yet, the Brigades are not having time to heal, so over time they will eventually be destroyed without reinforcements. So to go any further north, I'll need to gather a very large number of units which would be pretty realistic. All of Lee's offensives contained huge armies, frequently 30k and up.

ummm thats kinda what Ive did with the unit representation system I made up for my revolutionary war sen a while back no such problems happened with my units check it out http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28213

Make sure that the leaders are checked in Special Abilities as Build Armies and the the Unit abilities ONLY have 'leader' selected. I tried adding others and 'foot unit' and it wouldn't build an army. You also have to have some Small Wonder included that allows for armies to be built. I put in the War Department (Pentagon).

Although the sizes aren't consistent be cause of different organizational structures used by the North and South, I think viewing individual units as divisional size works best. That was the reasoning for my creating the Corps as a 2 or 3 unit structure. If you go down to Brigades I think 6 per division should be reasonable. You have to remember that very few units were ever eliminated in combat. They were reduced and rarely were brought up to original size. Rather, new units were raised to take their places. So, it was rare that the needed 9-1 ratio was attained in battle.

damn so we have to have a wonder to allow them? ok have to add that back in. i think i do have foot unit checked so maybe thats why it isnt working too. this editor is really frustrating!

yeah you are right about the sizes...usually 20% were gone before they even were grouped into the armies. but like i said i'm trying to approximate 1 unit = 1000 infantry. and brigades (if at 100%) usually contained 3-6 regiments, each regiment supposed to be 1000 men and so forth. I've been using a chart obtained from this site for my ideal approximations: (http://www.geocities.com/mo21infantry/organize.html).

Hey, I think so! Unfortunately, I haven't had one appear in any playtesting since putting them back in, so I can't verify. What I did was simulate the paths that were necessary in the basic civ3mod.bic, if by other identifications. I have the feeling there may be some things "hardwired" into the process that we don't know. I'd like to change the % probability of a leader appearing, but I haven't really discovered where or if it can be done, yet. Let's face it, during the Civil War leader of higher levels (3, 4 and 5 stars) were elevated only after showing some great success at the lower levels.

I don't know about anybody else, but I have been very disappointed that with the issuance of the new editor, there has been NO BASIC MANUAL OF OPERATIONS for what can and can't be manipulated! True, the "readme" file has a sketchy outline of the changes, but it definitely does not fill the need. Maybe they just don't know (except the 1 programmer). If you find anything in 'print', let me know.

That organization link is a very good one . . .very realistically accurate. Bet the author was an historian of the war. Have you found any more graphics site for this? I have old ones from Civ2, but they don't "massage" well into the .pcx files. I use Prof. level Photoshop 5.5, but I really don't want to have to make a whole set from scratch until we have defined exactly what units we want to use.

So, when do you go back to school?

How did you know i was goin back to school? Starts up beginning of the next month.

If what ive been reading is true, a better easier version of the editor is supposed to be shipping with that PTW expansion. Think I'll just wait until that is released...it is just taking too long to do anything and then test it.

He's right. I'm going to polish it up more in the PtW editor, and make a PtW version (well, if scenarios made in the PtW editor are PtW only).

Ah, some time back you mentioned you were a student with interests in history and computers. I'm a history teacher teaching job skills at a local high school. Since we're starting up next week, I just figured you were getting ready, too ;-)

Why don't you put your stuff into a zip-file and send me a copy to try. I'll do likewise. tcwonder@adelphia.net

I have some Civ2 Civil War units, but I can't get (despite following the tutorials on Adobe Photoshop to the letter) the color palettes to match up. Anyone have a site or thread location with a SIMPLE, effective method to convert Civ2 to Civ3. Obviously someone can do it, because I have seen a file with the basic ones. I simply don't have the time to look through every thread here or on Apolyton to locate it and NONE of the site search engines are good enough to isolate the info, alone.

I just downloaded your Scenario, and when I tried to play as the Confederate South the game crashes on the screen where you can choose which Civ. you will be.

Any fixes or did I do something wrong in the installation?

I got that winzip 8.1 you said I needed to work the Scenario.

I can play as the United States but I was going for the more difficult Civ.:goodjob:

Other than that I like the Scenario!!!!!!:goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob: :goodjob:

Open the scenario in the Civ3 Editor (1.29f version). Go to the scenario setup and choose player 2 (not the Confederacy) as the active player. Save it. Then open as scenario and Rebs should be able to play! Reverse the process to play the Union. You will need to do this in ALL scenarios that involve multiple choice players. Any that don't are not scenarios, but Mods.

I am a civil war fanatic and i really want to download your scenario, but i cannot find a link to do so. Also, to get a good feel for civil war combat, try playing Sid Meier's Gettysburg! or Antietem!
Cant wait to play your mod!


:ar15:SHOOT THEM YANKIES!!!:die:

Look near the bottom of my first post in the thread, above the pictures where it says "Download the File Here". And make sure you read everything. ;)

Just a bit of FYI on the project, I would like to inform everyone that I did not submit this scenario to Firaxis for PtW. I didn't have time to get it to the level I wanted it to be at to be released on such a massive professional scale, and it was very large and cumbersome to deal with. Sorry everyone... maybe my Napoleon one will be in Civ 3 Gold. ;)

Okay, I think I might soon make a PTW update to this scenario, though I'm mostly working on my new World War II one (my Napoleon one I have no units for and it crashes whenever it pleases, and I can't seem to fix it).

Whenever i try to open it it says Confederate cavalary file missing, or something like that. What should i do?

I cant get this god-damn thing to work...

I have downloaded this scenario with Winzip 8.1. Gone into the editor and set the active player as player 2...I want to play as the CSA, changed player 1 to computer, and player 2 as human in the scenario/player properties, and, it still crashes.

Does it make a difference that the .bic file, and all related files, for this scenario are NOT in the scenario directory when it is unzipped?

Tripp has done nothing to upgrade this scenario since Oct. (sorry to say). Others have been doing his work for him in responding. I tryed to assist in the scenario, but got little reponse myself. Try opening in the editor to up-date the bic file, then set ACTIVE PLAYER to CSA before saving. Then run as a scenario with CSA as the ONLY option for a single player. I did some work on it outside of Tripp's a few months ago (including adding units , Techs and Wonders). Should you like to look at these, contact me via private .